The news several weeks ago that Joram van Klaveren, once a right-hand man to Geert Wilders in the Dutch Freedom Party, has converted to Islam, has disconcerted many. For he is the third person in the last few years to go from being a member of an anti-Islam party to converting to Islam.
Van Klaveren not only converted to Islam after years of anti-Islam political activity, but did so, he claims, in the middle of researching a book he was writing about, and originally against, Islam, when he began to realize that the faith he had long despised was in fact so attractive that he felt irresistibly drawn to it. Naturally, Muslims are rejoicing in this high-profile convert — what an example to hold up to the world, confirming the innate superiority and sheer wonderfulness of Islam, such that even its severest critics, once they look into it, are ineluctably drawn to it. The crowing can be heard from the Doha offices of Al Jazeera to the London offices of Al Arabiya. Van Klaveren can now go on the speaking circuit, for fat fees in the Gulf, where he will thrill waddling emirs in their dishdashas with thrilling tales of how he, the islamocritic, could no longer deny Islam’s Beauty and Truth.
This conversion comes close on the heels of two other conversions to Islam by those who were once critical of it. The first was Arnoud van Doorn. Van Doorn is a bizarre figure. Once part of Geert Wilders’ Freedom Party, the party broke with Van Doorn in December 2011, over charges of financial irregularities. In April 2012, Van Doorn announced his conversion to Islam. He expressed regret that he had been involved in making Wilders’ short film Fitna. Van Doorn is now head of the European Da’wa Foundation. He has thus become not just a Muslim, but one entirely committed, as his occupation, to promoting the faith. He has been accused of antisemitic remarks, including one about a Jewish Canadian who paid a ransom to free Yazidi and Christian hostages, and about whom he tweeted “To sell at a profit?” Called out on it, Van Doorn claimed he had only been joking. Van Doorn has also described the failed coup in Turkey as the work of “Zionists.” On May 4, National Memorial Day in the Netherlands, when the more than 100,000 Dutch Jews murdered in the Holocaust were remembered, Van Doorn said that Palestinians were equal to the victims of the Holocaust. He has also tweeted “May Allah exterminate the Zionists.”
Interviewed for a Muslim publication, Van Doorn explained how his conversion came about:
I have studied the Quran based on curiosity, starting about a year ago (after I left the PVV). Before that I’ve only heard negative stories about Islam. The more I was reading (also Sunnah, Hadith, etc.) the more I was convinced that the Islam is actually a beautiful and wise religion. I have had a religious education as a Christian, so I shared already a lot of values. It is easier to convert from a Christian to Islam then from a “non believer” because I was known [sic –”familiar”] with the prophets, the angels, and the discipline that is necessary within any religion.
You can find fanatics in any religion, all over the world. Unfortunately the 1% fanatics are showed on tv and other news media, and their influence is magnified. 99% of the Muslims is [sic]hardworking and peaceable. If more people will study the true Islam, the more people will see the beauty of it.
As I said before: study Islam, step over your prejudges [sic– for “prejudices”], and you will see that the [sic] Islam is actually a beautiful and very pure religion, with a great history and high standards. We take care for each other in prosperity and adversity. It gives inner peace and wisdom, and it deepens your spiritual live. Life is more than money and materialism (the typical “western success factor”). You will become a stronger and better person.
Willie Dille was a member of Wilders’ party and of the city council of the Hague who, before committing suicide last year, explained on a video what led to her decision. She said that on March 15, 2017, a group of Muslims had kidnapped, repeatedly raped, and abused her. When they were done, they asked her: “Do you respect Muhammad? Do you respect Allah?” She said on the video that they had been ordered to rape her by a former member of Wilders’ Party, one Arnoud van Doorn, who was Dille’s fellow member on the city council in The Hague, in order to frighten her into silence at meetings of the council.
Van Doorn’s violently anti-Israel remarks did not prevent him in 2018 from tweeting some easy taqiyya: a photograph of himself shaking hands with a naive and smiling rabbi, together with the soothing text “Muslims and Jews together against hate and intolerance. Together against antisemitism and islamophobia.”
Then there is Arthur Wagner, another high-profile revert,who was a leading member of Alternative for Germany, the anti-Islam party that has the Homeric epithet “right-wing” permanently affixed to it, and is known for its mantra that “Islam doesn’t belong in Germany.” This once senior member of the party in Brandenburg, where he sat on the AfD’s state legislative committee, a member of the state committee with responsibility for churches and religious communities, caused a sensation in early 2018 by converting to Islam.
He resigned his position on the party’s national executive committee on January 11, 2018 for what he called “personal reasons.” He remains a member of the party. “The party has no problem with that,” its spokesman Daniel Friese said, adding that the AfD represents the interests of Muslims, and also of Christians and homosexuals.
Wagner became an AfD member in 2015 after switching from Chancellor Angela Merkel’s Christian Democrats (CDU).
Wagner, who has changed his name to Ahmad, gave an interview to the newspaper Bild in which he explained that he had turned to Islam because he did not like his church’s acceptance of homosexual marriage. As he explained, “One of the reasons was the way the church has changed, which I don’t understand any more.” Wagner was previously a devout Christian and member of his local Protestant church.“It’s their attitudes to the AfD, to gay marriage,” he said. He also said he was unhappy that Protestant pastors had taken part in a gay rights parade in Berlin. “With children there! That’s just not right,” he said. In protest, he became a Muslim. An overreaction, surely, for he might simply have resigned from the Protestant Church, as his private protest, and left it at that. Or he might have found a group of Christian fundamentalists who were not accepting of homosexuality, but at least did not murder them. Instead, Wagner became a Muslim. For they know how to treat homosexuals — very badly — just the way Arthur Wagner thinks they should treated. In Gaza, they shoot them. In Iran, they hang homosexuals from cranes. In the Islamic State, the Jihadis had great fun throwing homosexuals from the roofs of tall buildings. It’s fun for the whole family. Enjoy the ghoulish show. Every single one of the countries where homosexuality is punishable by death are Muslim: Afghanistan, Brunei, Iran, Mauritania, Nigeria (in the northern, Muslim states), Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and Somalia. This is what Arthur Wagner embraced because he didn’t like Protestant pastors taking part in a gay pride march. I would call that reaction unhinged.
No doubt Muslims, and not only in Germany, were delighted with the news of Wagner’s conversion. In trumpeting news oft this revert, they perhaps skimmed over his declared reason for becoming a Muslim — as a way to protest tolerance, by embracing the most homophobic of faiths. For why should the Muslim media not tell the Muslim world that it was the light of Islam — its truth, its beauty — that had shown so bright that even someone like Arthur Wagner, from deep in the darkness of his islamophobia, could overcome the dismal company he had kept at the AfD and, a heartening example, revert to being a Muslim himself?
Might there be more to these curious cases of reverts than simply one of weak-minded Infidels being persuaded that Islam was the one true faith?
Renate says
I saw a video online of a Dutch man who converted to Islam and then a couple of years later, converted back to Christianity.
Ren says
Van Klaveren has gone being smart to stupid. That’s all.
Bill says
Follow the money.
mortimer says
Audit.
Peter Buckley says
Should we be concerned? What a joke.
According to muslims themselves, the vast majority of converts leave Islam pretty sharpish:
https://imamluqman.wordpress.com/2010/01/13/seven-out-of-every-ten-converts-leave-islam-by-imam-luqman-ahmad/
The only thing that can be said is that Joram van Klaveren is now more likely to become a more violent individual(yes-it’s a FACT) and terrorist:
https://www.thelocal.de/20100606/27673
https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Converts_to_Islam
As for the dawa, all you need is to organise a few knowledgeable (religious) ex-muslims to expose it 24/7. Eventually we will have governments in the West who will know this, and be capable of destroying Islam without harming a single hair on a muslim’s head- simply by education.
Kilfincelt says
I’ve read the Koran and can’t find anything beautiful about it. Only the empty-headed would think it a beautiful religion or they don’t understand that all the nice verses are abrogated by the violent ones.
Ken Olson says
Exactly
Emilie Green says
St Antony, 251AD-356AD, nails it,
https://me.me/i/a-time-is-coming-when-men-will-go-mad-and-4488570
Wellington says
Willing adult converts to Islam are simply very confused (and often as well malevolent) human beings. No exceptions. Converting to a religion that 1) sanctions rape; 2) death for apostasy; 3) divides the world into the area where that religion is dominant and those not belonging to that religion are pure second-class citizens (if even this), i.e. dar al-Islam, and that area of the world where that religion is not yet dominant but eventually will be, by warfare if necessary, i.e., dar al-harb; 4) which disallows criticism of that religion, its reputed founder and its chief “holy” book upon pain of death; and 5) has a ridiculously childlike conception of the afterlife where men are still favored over women as they are on earth is a choice that is just about as abysmal a choice as one can make. Such people doing so have let the built-in crap detector they were born with get so terribly rusty that it is very likely beyond repair.
Fortunately, for every adult fool that converts to Islam, there are many brought up with Islam who are leaving this wretched excuse for a religion, though of course this often carries a great deal of danger because of what I already mentioned—death for those who dare to do so, as sanctioned in the Koran, Sura 4:89, in the Bukhari Hadith 9.84.57 and by every major school of Islamic theology to this day whether Sunni or Shiite. But Islam is so terrible (and stupid) that the risk is often worth it I should think and which makes willing conversion to Islam by an adult an insult to all those who suffer under the dictates of this faith and have even made the decision, replete with danger as it is, to leave it.
mortimer says
Respectfully disagree with the hypothesis that they are ‘confused’. I think they were in a financial scrape and someone bribed them. I think they should be forensically audited.
Most Western converts to Islam take about 15-20 months to learn that Islam is a fraud, opportunistic and amoral. They also learn how racist most Arabs are.
Wellington says
You have a point, mortimer, but I would contend that converting to Islam for monetary reasons is itself indicative of significant confusion of mind. Just as better dead than a dhimmi under Sharia, so is it the case that one is better off in debt than converting to Mo’s creed.
Ashley says
Greetings, friend!
Sinead O’Connor is a “confused” convert. Lost, delusional, with a long resume of psychiatric “episodes” to boot.
van Klaveren is a dangerous convert. GI made a great point…van Klaveren KNOWS the savagery of Islam, inside and out.
He isn’t confused, Wellington. You know that.
I know you know that.
gravenimage says
Agreed, Ashley.
Wellington says
If, Ashley, van Klaveren, per your words, is “a dangerous convert,” and “KNOWS the savagery of Islam, inside and out,” then his conversion, I would vigorously contend, only further proves my point, that he is truly confused—and please note my additional comment in parentheses in my 10:44 A.M. post above, to wit, “and often as well malevolent.”
No one is more confused than one who willingly embraces evil. Can’t get more confused than this. I rest my case.
gravenimage says
I see what you mean, Wellington–I just meant that he cannot be confused as to how ugly Islam is–he is no naif.
eduardo odraude says
Wellington said,
An upshot of what Wellington says is that in a way, people who “willingly” embrace evil do not know what they are doing. But if you don’t know what you are doing, then in some sense you are not doing it “willingly” and you are innocent of what you are doing.
That is part of the paradox of “evil” — on the one hand it is defined as intentional — that’s why it incurs blame. On the other hand we also see it as confused or crazy — and from that point of view treatment rather than blame seems the right response.
Because of that double-sided character of “evil,” there has been an eternal debate as to whether criminals should be “punished” or “rehabilitated.” Those who focus on the intentional aspect insist on punishment. Those who focus on the confused/crazy aspect insist on rehabilitation.
Aristotle as I recall did not favor either side of the punishment vs. rehabilitation debate; he thought punishment and rehabilitation had to be combined. He seems to have seen the paradox of evil: from one angle it is intentional; from another angle it is nuts. Somehow it is both and neither.
Nautikos says
Thanks, Wellington!
You have saved me a lot of time and typing! The only thing I shall add is to suggest that people read Ibn Warraq’s book ‘Why I am Not a Muslim’…
Wellington says
Yes, Nautikos, that work by Ibn Warraq is a must read and it was published some six years before 9/11. The chapter on Mohammed alone (chapter 4) should be enough to convince one of sound mind that Islam is bad news. My one caution about this work is that Ibn Warraq is not just anti-Islam but against religion in general and this might turn off religious people of other faiths. Nonetheless, it is a book that should be read because it really lays out just how sick Islam truly is.
gravenimage says
With the greatest respect, Wellington, while I think many converts to Islam can be confused–especially those who have swallowed the tripe about Islam being “a religion of peace”, or who love the poetry of Rumi (a very bad Muslim), or who think that colorful Hijabs are “exotic”–I don’t see how van Klaveren can be confused–at least not innocently so. He must have learned a great deal about the savagery of Islam.
Wellington says
Please see my 9:25 P.M. post above, gravenimage, to Ashley. I have long looked upon people like Hitler and Stalin as the most confused people of all, all the while in NO WAY exculpating them from the heinous choices they made. The wicked suffer from more confusion than anyone but they had the free will to decide otherwise and did not.
Put another way, embracing evil has for a long time now served for me as ipso facto evidence of the greatest and most terrible confusion of mind. So, I stand behind my initial assessment of this Dutchman, whether just horribly naive or actually complicit. Either way, it’s confusion, only the motive can be debated and, I suppose to some extent, the degree of culpability. So, let’s assume he is complicit, not “merely” naive. Still confused I contend. Gravely so.
I think we’re closer here than a first impression of my comments may, understandably, lead people like you, Ashley and mortimer to conclude. Would welcome a response by you—or from Ashley or mortimer.
gravenimage says
Yes–I agree, Wellington. I just meant–as I said above–that van Klaveren cannot be naive about Islam’s terrible savagery, as some ignorant converts to Islam may be.
Wellington says
I think, gravenimage, your 9:44 post above, posted while I was still writing my 9:52 P.M. post, clears up “the matter.” Per my last post, I would again assert that we’re not far apart here, if at all.
Damn, getting the exact words exactly right can carry so much weight, no? Never more so, I think, than when moral issues are being discussed. To the extent that obscurity has existed here on this thread about this “matter” by me, contra what you, Ashley and mortimer have stated, I think I have to take full responsibility for the confusion (appropriate choice of a word here, no?). I mean if three good people read you wrong, the “wrong” is far more likely with you than with the other three. Mea culpa.
thebigW says
Well you could say all evil people are confused. I’d say the difference here is whether someone converts to Islam knowing it has a plan to destroy the West or not knowing that. Funny thing about the ones who don’t know that (at least as far as we can tell they don’t know), they’re usually awful defensive about the issue and won’t listen to people trying to wake them up. Kinda like cult members.
Ashley says
Wellington writes: “I think we’re closer here than a first impression of my comments may, understandably, lead people like you, Ashley and mortimer to conclude.”
_________________
Of course we are, Wellington!
And yes…it can be a challenge to pen a post with just the right word to convey an opinion. It has never been my intention to split hairs with you over the term “confusion.”
thebigW summed up my thoughts on the matter to a tee.
Be well, friend!
thebigW says
thanks Ashley
gravenimage says
Yes–I don’t think we are that far apart.
The precise nature of evil–and finding ways to accurately portray it–are often rather slippery.
Anjuli Pandavar says
Every society has its, well, there are different words for it.
mortimer says
Van Klaveren and Van Doorn should be forensically audited. They took the money.
gravenimage says
Not necessarily. They may have just decided to embrace the evil they once fought against.
Anjuli Pandavar says
Islam’s welcomes anyone, absolutely anyone. The more f*cked up, the better. Even if they publicly f*ck up the adhan and embarrass the otherwise smug Muslims around them, no problem! Great extravaganza!!! Major media event!!! Islam vindicated!!!
Those converts capable of coming to their senses eventually do, and then guess what? They slink off outta there. But have you noticed something else? Such convert apostates don’t seem to end up on death-lists like “born-Muslims” do. Would consistency in applying the apostate death penalty put off potential converts, or has my cynicism gland just been overactive again?
Think, for example, “Cat Stevens” > “Yusuf Islam” > “Yusuf who used to be Cat Stevens” > “Yusuf” > “Yusuf/Cat Stevens” > …??? Hang in there for the autobiography, “One Foolish Step into Islam; Ten Foolish Steps back out again,” which, rather inconsiderately, will not be available from your friendly local Islamic bookstore, but, as compensation, will come with a compilation CD entitled, “Songs from the Five Steps Back”. Of course, incurable Islamophobes will immediately jump on what they will call “the inconsistency” between “ten steps” and “five steps.” The dhimmi intelligentsia will interpret “Five Steps” is an allusion to “Five Pillars”, but those in the know will also notice that the songs are all from only the last five steps back. Asked about the missing first five steps, the singer would simply say, “Footsteps in the dark, mate.”
ahem says
Fear. He can’t take the heat.
FYI says
It would not matter if it was to Buddhism but converson to islam is different due to its political subversive agenda.Given all the info out there and advice on the internet from ex-muslims and ex-converts,NOT to convert to islam,it takes a particular type of fool to join the Cult.I have never heard anything as idiotic as van Klaveren’s conversion.
And this is the one to whom Van Klaveren has now converted..
#1Sahih Muslim vol 5 hadith#5611
allah’s greatest enemy is Malik Al Malak{“King of kings”}=Jesus Christ
#2 the koran CURSES christians for believing in Jesus Christ k9:30
#3 allah is the “best of deceivers k3:54
#4 the koran denies EVERYTHING that is in the Gospel
Even if one is fed up with lefty liberal clergy in either the catholicor protestant church,converting to islam is folly.
I’m sorry but these men are imbeciles:they have joined the religion of antiChrist and are too thick,too moronic, to see it…may they reap what they have sown..
FYI says
Converting to islam,especially if you come from a Christian background,in these times when all the warnings are given NOT to convert to the Cult of allah “the best of deceivers” is like this.
Imagine you had a kid and you told him:”hey son,don’t ever shove your head down the toilet…that would be really dumb because you might get stuck and you would look foolish….so do not,under any circumstance,shove your head down the toilet,ya hear me?”
…….
“Hey pa,I got my head stuck in the toilet..why oh why did nobody warn me this might happen..gee i never saw this coming..”
RonaldB says
Islam seems particularly suited for people who are driven by externals: they are inordinately concerned with what other people say and think about them, and their actions are driven by the expectations of others, rather than by their inner conscience. Islamic doctrine is particularly concerned with preventing criticism of Islam and preventing critical discussion within Islam. Also, Islam is extremely focused on obedience and submission.
So, individuals with a high need for authoritarian direction of their own lives might very well be attracted to Islam. Once they are Muslim, any inner doubts or pangs of conscience are silenced, and they can focus on obeying the many external controls on them imposed by Islam.
My guess is that these conversions are far more influential within the Muslim community, which is extremely focused on criticism and approval by others, than the conversions affect non-Muslims, especially in the West.
Islam itself might be functional for certain individuals, or even for certain societies, like in Pakistan, where the only real control on behavior is the brute force of the army, police, or Islamic enforcers. Pakistani Muslims, left unchecked by external forces, degenerate into child rapists.
But Islam, as a creed, is dysfunctional for the West. Islamic principles are totally at variance with those of the West. Like or dislike homosexuals, Western values do not condone violence against individuals who do not harm others. And I realize in the past, there have been criminal penalties on homosexual behavior. At least as important, Islamic restrictions on the freedom of speech are totally at variance with the Constitution. Even if the Constitution were amended through a legal process, the result would be a completely, non-Western form of government. In other words, Islam is dangerous to the West and restrictions on its political expression are probably in order.
James Lincoln says
RonaldB,
A very astute and interesting post – I will need to reflect upon it.
gravenimage says
I think Islam is dysfunctional everywhere.
And child rape is not just rife among Muslims in places without external controls–it is grimly common in places like Pakistan, as well:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_marriage_in_Pakistan
And why not? The “Prophet” himself “married” a child. There are few things more Islamic than child rape.
Sam says
If anyone says he/she is Muslim, he is either clueless or evil. Either case stay the hell away from him/her.
mortimer says
They were bribed. Audit them.
gravenimage says
Decent people would not convert to Islam for money. I’m sure you wouldn’t, Mortimer–neither would I.
thebigW says
Yeah, good point. I guess ol’ Van Doom found a way to get a two-fer. I can be evil AND get lotsa money? Sign me up dude! he musta said to himself (how do you say that in Dutch?)
gravenimage says
Could be, certainly.
No Muzzies Here says
This is 2019. The world has moved past theocracies. Science explains most of the world. Islam is a relic from the seventh century. It has not changed. It has not adapted to the modern world. It has not had a reformation.
For a supposedly “intelligent” man, in 2019, to join that religion is a sign that something is radically wrong with that man. By converting, he is asserting that women are inferior, Blacks are inferior, slave-holding by Muslims is OK, murder of non-Muslims is OK and killing apostates is perfectly all right.
mortimer says
Van Doorn’s fantasy version of Islam is actually NON-OBSERVANT ISLAM. The Muslims he speaks of are ignoring about 60% or more of Islam’s teachings and practicing some of the precepts when they feel like it.
Most Muslims today are not very observant.
ISLAM IS HIGHLY CODIFIED, Van Doorn. It is not for the individual Muslim to create his own E-Z version of Islam.
Mohammed said that ‘JIHAD’ is the ‘ORIGINAL RELIGION’ of Islam.
When Muslims … “give up conducting jihad, Allah will make disgrace prevail over you, and will not withdraw it until you return to your original religion. – Sunan Abu Dawud Book 23, Number 3455
thebigW says
“Van Doorn’s fantasy version of Islam is actually NON-OBSERVANT ISLAM.”
You mean the fantasy Islam he’s trying to sell us with taqiyya.
gravenimage says
Yes–I don’t see how he of all people can believe that Islam is not violent.
mgoldberg says
There is a general answer as to why people would convert to Islam. It’s totality, it’s utter tyranny against all others and all religions and beliefs allows a comfort inside it’s jailcell beliefs. It tolerates no dissonance, and demands primacy. Imagine, considering oneself above all others, all beliefs and without the need for a shame for that. Imagine being glorified for ending the lives of ‘non believers’, as it is the highest form of religious practice. Imagine being able to lie about all that to non believers and feel entitled to all the worlds submission.
All the confusion, the chaos, the lack of power, disappears under the cloak of supremacy.
Is it any wonder that serial homicidists are produced at unheard of numbers by this- ‘faith’- like no other?
Is it any wonder that some people are easily seduced by this perfidy
mgoldberg says
And the other news of the day would as an example, not bother them a bit. That the skulls of ’50 Yazidi sex
slaves’ found in former islamic state stronghold are unearthed? No problem for the convert. That this is not some rarity but the common theme, would not bother them at all. The superiority of Islam, and it’s eternal need to submit all others is forever explained as necessary up to and including all it’s victims with their guilt for resisting the ‘gift’ of conversion.
gravenimage says
Yes–horrifying.
Ashley says
The news several weeks ago that Joram van Klaveren, once a right-hand man to Geert Wilders in the Dutch Freedom Party, has converted to Islam, has disconcerted many. For he is the third person in the last few years to go from being a member of an anti-Islam party to converting to Islam.
________________________
Some people just need to do outrageous things for the sake of being outrageous. You know, fifteen minutes of fame shit. News of these conversions grab headlines and go viral.
I have to wonder if this is some twisted publicity stunt to garner attention.
Joram van Klaveren is an egotistical moron. He may have “shocked the world” with his announcement but he didn’t shock me.
sheliak says
Strange phenomenon of reverse assimilation. When the muslim population of a host western nation exceeds a certain threshold, the indigenous population begins to assimilate into the alien culture. Believe we will see a lot more of this.
gravenimage says
Grimly possible.
lebel says
The answer is very simple. THe anti-Islam movement can;t help but go over the top when it comes to Islam. Because its position o Islam is based on hate, everything about Islam MUST be bad. Thus when someone in the movement decides to do research for themselves (very rare in the case of jihadwatchers) they start figuring out that they’re being lied to.
westcoastjohnny says
Actually it’s not simple at all – there are many possible reasons why people change ideologies, there is no reason to assume their switch is caused by discovering ‘the truth.’ Did Mussolini discover what was ‘right’ or ‘true’ when he switched from being a communist to being a fascist? In fact many like him in the 1920s switched back and forth between these two political ideologies.
This kind of change may tell us more about the psychology of the one changing than of the supposed truth of the ideology. Perhaps he feels he is backing the strong horse. Perhaps he harbors resentments against gays, or women, or the growing secularism of society and likes Islamic attitudes regarding these things. Perhaps it’s a combination of these or other reasons.
gravenimage says
Note that lebel is unable to cite anything benignant about the horrors of Islam. No surprise there…
Ashley says
lebel writes: “Thus when someone in the movement decides to do research for themselves (very rare in the case of jihadwatchers) they start figuring out that they’re being lied to.”
________________________________
I only tolerate you, lebel, because you add color to the tapestry and occasionally (rarely) make an astute observation that gives me pause.
Your comment is nothing short of grotesque. I don’t see you citing passages from the Qur’an…I only see you discrediting this forum. You sure go silent when the subject matter is on Islamic principles regarding FGM, beheadings, executing homosexuals, honor killings, divorce, pedophilia, rape, etc.
DEFEND THESE ATROCITIES! But you won’t. You are weak.
Robert Spencer doesn’t make this shit up. He cites his sources, adds his commentary, and leaves it to his readers to assess and form an opinion, including the authenticity of his account on hand.
A friendly suggestion, lebel. How about refuting Robert’s citations instead of insulting “Jihad Watch” readers. Robert isn’t grabbing his news from Alex Jones, the planet Pluto, or a unicorn ranch.
Debate him, lebel. He’s actually quite civil and cordial. When I’ve had an issue, he is quite open and sincere.
Go ahead…I dare you.
In closing, you have read the Qur’an, right?
gravenimage says
+1
gravenimage says
Hugh Fitzgerald: Van Klaveren Converted — Should We Be Disconcerted? (Part One)
……………..
Just disgusting.
brane pilot says
People who do not understand this, do not understand what is happening in Europe.
Homosexuality and nihilism is being mainstreamed in elementary schools. Drag queens in full makeup are hired to show up in schools and read children’s storybooks about homosexual couples raising children, and how this lifestyle is normal and desirable.
When it comes to family life that even acknowledges the possibility of normal heterosexual relations, Islam is the only ideology left in Europe.
The loons are driving the population to Islam as an alternative to what any sane person would perceive as absolute depravity.
gravenimage says
brane pilot wrote:
The loons are driving the population to Islam as an alternative to what any sane person would perceive as absolute depravity.
…………………
Wait–you don’t consider mutilating and “marrying” children to be depraved? You don’t consider rape and sex slavery to be depraved? You are fine with polygamy? Are you OK with wife beating and “Honor Killing”?
I’m sorry–there is nothing as depraved as the horrors of Islam, whatever other problems there may be in society.
UNCLE VLADDI says
So, let me get this “straight:” he became a muslim to protect children from homosexuals – ignoring that Dirty Old Moe himself used to fondle little boys and rape little girls?! And the AfD lets him remain, because they say they respect both muslims “and” gays (but not, apparently, their own children’s future)?! Pathetic!
gravenimage says
*Spot on*, Uncle Vladdie.
gravenimage says
And molesting children is *illegal* in the West–not so in Dar-al-Islam.
maddymappo says
The polar opposites of a world where the lines have been blurred between good and evil, and the authoritarian absolute certainty of Islam must create a strong attraction for some. It concerns me because the college campuses are full of kids who have been sucked into leftist thought and that chaos has as we have seen, bonded with totalitarianism. Youth are vulnerable. I don’t know why Van Klaveren or anyone who studied Islam would find it appealing. I can only speculate it may have to do with being overwhelmed by the rising blood drenched tide and the feeling that if you can’t beat them join them. A conversion by the psychological sword, …terror
Ashley says
Yes…speculating is all we can do.
That said, I highly doubt Van Klaveren was motivated by fear. He was openly and staunchly critical of Islam for several years and aligned himself with the likes of Geert Wilders. He knew and knows the dark side of this cult. He was in the midst of penning a book critical of Islam prior to converting. He referred to the Qur’an as “poison” and now he has announced his allegiance to the filthy ideology.
Personally…I think this whole fiasco is a sham. He may have very well been put off with Wilders remark regarding Moroccans but think about it…is that any reason to abandon the cause to stem the spread of Islam? Is that any reason to throw the baby out with the bath water? Is that any reason to embrace the very ideology Van Klaveren so vehemently condemned?
This is what troubles me most about Van Klaveren: He was an ally, confidante and supporter of Wilders’ party. He knows Wilders’ secrets, strategies and platform. No doubt Van Klaveren has insider information that could derail or impede Wilders’ mission.
There. I said it. My darkest fear…
Islam won the lottery with this one.
peter says
There are three things about the converts that is consistent
Number one .Most of these converts are in jail
Number two The number of converts revert back to their original religion sooner than later
Number three . There is a muslima in the picture who will be the sex slave if only if the man is ready to have his penis chopped off . And that will continue even after their partnership is over well into his life in Mohamed’s paradise . Now you get an idea of the quality of converts to islam! Don[t you?