“Because of the blasphemy laws, thousands of people have been saved. If the law weren’t there, I tell you, it’s possible that I speak blasphemy you’ll kill me, or if you do it I’ll kill you.”
The concept of the freedom of speech, or tolerating peacefully people with differing views and values, doesn’t even come close to entering this line of thought. Islam’s supremacy is taken for granted. This is the direction in which the West is headed.
“If religious freedom’s a process, why not name the elephant in the room?,” by John L. Allen Jr., Crux, February 6, 2019:
ROME – One way to measure the real nature of struggles over religious freedom in the Islamic world is by the kind of person who would show up in the United Arab Emirates over the last three days, joining Pope Francis and the Grand Imam of Al-Azhar in Egypt for a massive interreligious paean to peace, love and tolerance.
There were more than 700 religious leaders on hand, and Tahir Mahmood Ashrafi, a well-known Muslim cleric from Pakistan, is a good example of the kind of crowd the event drew.
Ashrafi is known as a “liberal” cleric in his native country, the kind of religious leader who condemns extremism and stands for tolerance and acceptance and who’s been awarded a presidential honor for the defense of peace and human rights. So real are those commitments that there was recently a push in the Pakistan Ulema Council, the main body of Islamic clerics in the country, to expel him and replace him with someone more traditional.
Certainly, Ashrafi said all the right things in Abu Dhabi in terms of the event’s official talking points.
“All religious leaders today are saying that religion doesn’t have anything to do with extremism and terrorism,” he said.
“I think the UAE has achieved a great victory, because today a message is going from the UAE to the whole world that we are Muslims, Christians, Jews and other religious people, united for brotherhood of human beings against those using the name of religion for his personal cause and personal needs,” he said.
All that is encouraging, offering a classic example of the “other face” of Islam.
Yet even such an enlightened cleric as Ashrafi defended his nation’s notorious blasphemy laws, which envisions death sentences for perceived outrages against religious figures, texts and beliefs – and what’s most telling is why.
“Because of the blasphemy laws, thousands of people have been saved,” Ashrafi insisted. “If the law weren’t there, I tell you, it’s possible that I speak blasphemy you’ll kill me, or if you do it I’ll kill you.”
He cited the well-known 2012 case of a Christian girl named Rishma, who was 14 years old at the time and who suffers from a mental disability. She was arrested under the blasphemy laws after reports that she had burned pages from a Koran, and theoretically faced execution. After the case was reviewed, and in light of her condition, she was released.
“With the law, there can be negotiations,” Ashrafi said. “She was released because of the blasphemy law.”
That, in a nutshell, is the problem: A respected and clearly moderate Islamic cleric – the kind of guy, after all, happy to be seen with a pope – nevertheless is saying that in one of the world’s flagship Muslim nations, religious sensitivities are so extreme that if the civil law didn’t punish perceived acts of blasphemy, vigilante violence would be ungovernable….
SometimesItsReallyNotSoClear says
But…but…but…it’s Sharia law that makes blasphemy a crime carrying the death sentence. So what he’s really saying is that, if there was no blasphemy law, there wouldn’t be a need for a blasphemy law, but since there is a blasphemy law, we need the blasphemy law to protect us from the blasphemy law. Huh?
mortimer says
SRNSC is correct … Sharia law punishes blasphemy and authorizes VIGILANTES to commit the execution of them … in accordance with the sacred example (Sunna) of Mohammed.
The REVERSE of Tahir Mahmood Ashrafi’s claim (“Because of the blasphemy laws, thousands of people have been saved.” ) is actually true. Here’s the proof:
– “There is no indemnity obligatory for killing a non-Muslim at war (‘kafir harbi’) with Muslims.” -Reliance of the Traveller, o4.17, p.593
– “We have already discussed killing the person who, with intent, curses the Prophet, belittles him or slights him in any way. The judgement in this case is clear.” (i.e. the sentence is execution)- from Sharia law manual, “Qadhi Iyaadh in ash-Shifa”, Volume No.2, Page No. 27
– from a Sharia law web site…the “punishment of execution which sharee’ah imposes on everyone who reviles the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), whether he is a Muslim, a dhimmi or a mu’aahid, because transgressing against the status of the Prophets is disbelief in Allaah Almighty, and it invalidates every sanctity, right and covenant; it is a major betrayal which deserves the most severe punishment.
3 – Although this was a hadd punishment, it also comes under the heading of killing a harbi (a non-Muslim in a state of war against Islam), and it is permissible for anyone to kill a harbi.” (i.e. vigilante murder is permitted by Islam)
– In the 1992 murder of apostate Farag Foda, Al Azhar’s scholars argued that when the state fails to punish apostates, SOMEBODY ELSE (i.e. a vigilante) HAS TO DO IT.” In other words, Al Azhar University has endorsed vigilantism to silence apostates and blasphemers.
J D S says
One can not straddle the fence been it comes to religion! .
One is either for or against…it can’t be both..So this cleric has nothing new to offer…blasphemy in Islam is the same as other stupid laws it portrays ….How about the apostasy law? Now how stupid is that?
A free world should have, long ago, stopped Islam with a unified push…but NO! The free world has allowed Islam and it’s message to continue way too long….
Find another real religion that comes anywhere close to the disturbing ways of islam…Just not there.yett….THE WORLD STSNDS STILL!
CogitoErgoSum says
Or …….. we could just leave it up to God whether or not to punish someone for blasphemy and there would be no need at all for us to enact blasphemy laws.
gravenimage says
+1
Agostino Armo Pellegrini says
And that makes sense to me, considering blasphemy laws result in punishments that are far worse than the “crimes.” Some of the punishments we’ve seen in the islamic world are so disproportionately harsh compared to the alleged crime that civilized society considers it a humanitarian crime to enact them, or at least it should. But the islamic mindset is so bereft of commonsense justice that it can’t see its own retardation. I suggest we help them understand the error of their ways with frank truths that shock them out of their stupidity, and also by defending our democratic principles steadfastly and without apology. They’d serve themselves best and us too if they followed our good example, admittedly imperfect, but still vastly superior to what their idiotic and depraved prophet teaches as godly truth.
Terry Gain says
I am a Catholic. Blasphemy is not a civil crime. God has made us free to believe or not believe. The negative consequences of this are in God’s hands.
BC says
I tell you, it’s possible that I speak blasphemy you’ll kill me, or if you do it I’ll kill you.
He leaves out the fact that only Muslim kill for blasphemy, as far as I know no other mainstream religion does.
Also they use the most baseless trumped up charges and are quite likely to lynch someone on the spot burn their house down etc. His example of the 14 year old girl demonstrates that clearly. One hardly needs to remind him of the Bibi case
Savvy Kafir says
Right. Then everyone’s off the hook, permanently. I’m cool with that. Punishments for “blasphemy” do not belong in the 21st Century.
Unless you piss off Aphrodite. Then you oughta pay.
Savvy Kafir says
This was in response to CognitoErgoSum’s suggestion that we leave it in God’s hands.
Savvy Kafir says
Okay … my previous TWO comments were in response to CognitoErgoSum’s suggestion that we leave it in God’s hands. But there seems to be a glitch in the system that won’t allow me to attach comments to previous ones.
(Maybe God’s messing with me, on account of me not taking the subject of blasphemy very seriously.)
CogitoErgoSum says
Or …. it could be Aphrodite. She likes to play games …… like promising you another man’s wife if you choose her as the winner in a beauty contest. (Then everyone has to pay.)
gravenimage says
I’m actually rereading the Illiad right now. Even those “gods” are no less irrational than “Allah”, and are overall less violent…
CogitoErgoSum says
I love reading Greek mythology. 🙂
gravenimage says
As do I, CogitoErgoSum–without having to live in that world. Of course, Islam is *much* worse.
I first started seriously reading Greek and Roman mythology when studying Art History at University, since it has had such a profound influence on Western art.
CogitoErgoSum says
Yes, it has had a great influence on both art and literature. As an aside, my guilty pleasure is sci-fi and may I suggest that when you are through with the “Iliad” you try reading the two novels “Illium” and “Olympos” by Dan Simmons which draw heavily from the “Illiad” and the “Odyssey.” Simmons is the author of the historical/sci-fi novel called “The Terror” which last year was made into what I thought was a fascinating tv mini-series about the failed 1848 Royal Navy expedition to find the Northwest Passage. But my favorite books by Simmons are called “The Fall of Hyperion” and “The Rise of Endymion” which intertwine science, religion, the poetry of John Keats, the literary device of “Canterbury Tales” and some ideas by Pierre Tielhard de Chardin and Stephen Hawking. I suggest these books by Simmons since ancient Greek mythology has much in common with today’s sci-fi and also because a person can find more than one level of meaning within each story. Oh, so much to read and so little time!
gravenimage says
Thank you, CogitoErgoSum. I do not read a lot of science fiction, but I have read “The Terror”, which I found interesting. I hadn’t heard that the tale was filmed–I should look for it. (AMC, I see).
I am also very interested in the period of polar exploration–including Franklin’s terrible lost expedition. The wrecks were finally found, just a few years ago–the Erebus in 2014, the Terror just in 2016. Of course, there is still a lot of mystery attacked to the story.
I’ll look for the books you suggested. I know that a lot of science fiction has been influenced by mythology.
I would *love *to continue this exchange, but I’m probably getting a little too off-topic here. 🙂
somehistory says
If they saved the executions for murderers, then they wouldn’t “need” any laws against burning the nasty book, or saying something truthful about the fake prophet, or drawing a picture or representation of the fake prophet, or offering a moslim a drink of water, etc. because those who speak truth…never or non moslims….wouldn’t be in danger from rabid moslims bent on enacting injustice for speaking truth.
His arguments are nonsense. Just make a law against moslims murdering those who refuse islam and make the punishment stiff and swift.
gravenimage says
But Somehistory, that would be “un-Islamic”. Tahir Mahmood Ashrafi *himself*–a “moderate”–says that he would murder someone accused of “blasphemy”.
somehistory says
So, then he would face the sure and swift punishment for murder…death. After one time, he wouldn’t be doing it any longer.
gravenimage says
Not in Pakistan, Somehistory. Those who murder “blasphemers” seldom face any consequences there.
somehistory says
g,
I believe you misunderstood my first comment, and thereby, my second one. “If they saved the executions for murderers, then they wouldn’t “need” any laws against burning the nasty book, or saying something truthful about the fake prophet, or drawing a picture or representation of the fake prophet, or offering a moslim a drink of water, etc. because those who speak truth…never or non moslims….wouldn’t be in danger from rabid moslims bent on enacting injustice for speaking truth.
His arguments are nonsense. Just make a law against moslims murdering those who refuse islam and make the punishment stiff and swift.”
**************************************
If…if if if…they made a law against Murder…and had no laws against Telling the Truth…no laws against drawing the “prophet” and no laws against a Christian offering a moslim a glass of water…or any of the other things moslims consider “blasphemy”…but only Executed those who murdered others…then fewer people would die from telling the truth about islam or in some other way “offending” moslims who would be put to death if they murdered others for offending them.
I know that paksitan puts people to death for blasphemy…and for charges of blasphemy even when it has not happened….but if they had no laws saying people would be put to death for blasphemy, but did have laws against moslims murdering Christians, perhaps the moslims could learn they would not get away with murder…as they do now.
If this fat creep murdered someone who “offended” moslims and was put to death for it, he wouldn’t be murdering anyone else.
Savvy Kafir says
Sounds like it’s time for Britain to import another million or so of these Pakistani lovers of liberty. I’m sure the current government is working on it.
CogitoErgoSum says
They will have to make sure the room they give this guy is large enough for more than one elephant. But any more like him and the island may sink.
CogitoErgoSum says
I’m speaking metaphorically, of course.
Jon Sobieski says
Morbidly obese imam. How appropriate.
CogitoErgoSum says
If the man has a medical condition which affects his weight, I wish him well in his struggle with that. If he just can’t control his eating habits, I would hope that he realizes that he’s not setting a good example for young people and that he’s not taking care of the body that God gave him.
gravenimage says
I take your point–but Muslims do *much* worse things than overeat.
CogitoErgoSum says
That’s for sure, graven.
gravenimage says
Yes–more suicidal insanity.
gravenimage says
Pakistan: Muslim cleric defends blasphemy laws, says they have saved thousands of people from vigilante violence
……………………………….
There are, of course, several problems with this claim. Firstly, of course, isn’t it up to the state to protect its citizens? Not in Dar-al-Islam, it’s not.
Then, someone who is executed by the state is hardly “saved”.
Finally, many of these people “saved” by blasphemy laws haven’t been saved at all–even when exonerated and let go–as has happened–many accused have been murdered by the mob after their release, sometimes right on the courthouse steps–and there are seldom any consequences for the murderers.
It is still not clear whether Asia Bibi, twice exonerated by what passes for Pakistan’s highest court, has been allowed to flee abroad. Certainly, the mob is still howling for her blood.
More:
“Because of the blasphemy laws, thousands of people have been saved. If the law weren’t there, I tell you, it’s possible that I speak blasphemy you’ll kill me, or if you do it I’ll kill you.”
……………………………….
Notice the important phrasing here–note that Tahir Mahmood Ashrafi doesn’t say that some crazy person might take it into their head to do violence–he not only presents this as perfectly common, but includes *himself* among those apt to murder his neighbor based on the rumor of “blasphemy”.
And this Muslims is deemed a “moderate”, and was accepted as such by the Pope…
Agostino Armo Pellegrini says
Finally, many of these people “saved” by blasphemy laws haven’t been saved at all–even when exonerated and let go–as has happened–many accused have been murdered by the mob after their release…
What you just said there, Graven, is genuine compassion and concern for those who have been murdered in such circumstances. It shows you are in tune with the painful reality and care enough to speak of it.
Thanks.
If our leftist politicians had the same heartfelt concern you just expressed then islam and sharia wouldn’t have a chance of growing in the West. But sadly too many politicians care only about votes and money, and their greed is killing and destroying our culture and people. These blasphemy laws don’t save anyone from islam’s brutal bigotry, they encourage it. What they need is laws that say the very opposite and that protect free speech, and guarantee the right of everyone to religious freedom and dissent. The only mention of “derogatory remarks” or “uttering” or “epithets” in any law should be to make clear that in no way should they be the basis for criminal prosecution to protect religious sensibilities; and further, that any vigilante violence that is based on such accusations is liable to criminal prosecution. But we won’t see that in our life time, Graven, because islam is so retarded that I’m convinced reform is only possible through death. And won’t they be a wonderful day? if it ever comes.
gravenimage says
Sadly agree, Agostino.
And I much appreciate your comments here.
Agostino Armo Pellegrini says
“Because of the blasphemy laws, thousands of people have been saved,” Ashrafi insisted. “If the law weren’t there, I tell you, it’s possible that I speak blasphemy you’ll kill me, or if you do it I’ll kill you.”
That might actually make sense until one looks at the current laws on the books, which if anything reinforce the intolerant bigotry that pervades their religiously sick culture. Such as,
Use of derogatory remarks, spoken, written, directly or indirectly, etc. defiles the name of Muhammad or other Prophet(s)
Well for cripes sake, such a law only invites blasphemy charges and could be interpreted a hundred different ways depending on the residing bigots currently in charge. Merely “uttering any word or making any sound or making any gesture…with the deliberate intention of wounding the religious feelings of any person, ” can get you a year in prison. This sh*t is straight out of the Middle Ages, they’re trapped by a 7th century demon mentality. “Derogatory remarks in respect of holy personages” can get you 3 years in the slammer. And as we all know, “derogatory remarks” includes any truth that’s too uncomfortable to hear for anyone in the mood to be offended. These muslims live according to a retarded legal system that kills. And this is the sh*t they’re bringing into our nations, it’s the sharia system they’re setting up under our noses. And the left is helping them, they want us to be slaves just like muslims do, to a filthy demon. How do we defend against such insane nonsense? I’ll tell you, by standing firm for our own principles and laws. No more making excuses for doctrines that spread confusion, hate, and bigotry that kills. It’s not a “religion of peace,” it’s a religion that has inspired the murder and suffering of millions. Anyone who defends their retarded religion is encouraging murder and terror, and they should have to answer for that in this life and the next.
gravenimage says
Yes–the fact that this is the law of the land emboldens and reinforces savagery over “blasphemy”.
Wellington says
On a specific point you made I would like to comment and that is how closely aligned the Western Left is with Islam. No wonder because both detest liberty and are keen on social engineering. Of course, if Islam should ever get its way in the West, aided by the Left, it will then do its best to destroy the Left thereafter. Leftists are clueless of this as they are of so many things.
Agostino Armo Pellegrini says
Thanks Graven and Wellington, we are of one mind on the matter. You’re right Wellington, the Left is a useful tool for now, but in the end their heads will roll just as easily as ours.
Indiana Tom says
I guess the Liberals really think they can control the Muslim mobs.I guess they might. but they would have to implement a Stalinist or Hitlertarian type of government. Which is what they probably are really after.
gravenimage says
Yes–Muslims will slaughter Leftists too if they ever get into power here.
Wellington says
This is an even more Orwellian “argument” than the “need” to distinguish between free speech and hate speech.
Wellington says
Looking at the photo above of this turkey, I can only conclude that come evening during Ramadan he must be in “gorge mode” until dawn.
N.B., this is a personal insult I have proffered and I want it to be.
CogitoErgoSum says
I’ve noticed that a certain glamor magazine (or maybe more than just one) has placed a rather heavy woman on the cover to convey the message that it’s okay to be overweight. Well, in my opinion, no it’s not and we should not pretend that it is. A person extremely overweight out of all proportion to his/her height and age has something wrong with him and to pretend that there isn’t is not doing anyone a favor. It’s just as much of a problem as being too thin. The man should be receiving medical attention or be advised to see a doctor as soon as possible. He’ll just have to get over the hurt feelings.
Wellington says
And such glamour magazines, CES, just a decade ago or so, put forth anorexic models respecting what should be emulated by women. So much for absolute truth.
The “skinny stuff” started in the 1960’s and reached a peak about ten or twenty years ago. Now, a “180” has occurred and we’re to accept fat women as just wonderful and sexy. Ain’t buyin’ any of this.
For me. the extraordinarily beautiful women of the 1950’s and early 1960’s remain my ideal of female beauty—women like Sophia Loren, Mamie van Doren, Doris Day, Gina Lollabrigida, Marilyn Monroe of course, et al. Neither too fat nor too skinny. Just sayin’.
As usual, the Aristotelian “middle of the road” approach remains optimal, whether about female figures, the amount of exercise, sleep, food, alcohol, etc. one should appreciate or get and so on. Even, I think, applicable to sex (reasonable minds can differ on this last one).
Hope you are doing well. World sure isn’t.
CogitoErgoSum says
We are definitely on the same page with this one. My best to you. And hey, don’t forget Raquel Welch.
ntesdorf says
This is the reason that Islamic countries are the most primitive, misogynistic and backward on Earth. They are subject to unending civil strife and wars. Such are the rewards of following the Prophet or is it Satan?
Indiana Tom says
So if someone is guilty of blasphemy; they have this blubber boy sit on them?
Jack Cade says
Judging from the hog in the photo, he eats more than the average Paki family. https://www.aup.edu.pk/sj_pdf/FOOD%20CONSUMPTION,%20CALORIE%20INTAKE%20AND%20POVERTY%20STATUS.pdf
crawford421 says
I think he EATS an average Pakistani family each day!
gravenimage says
Muslims are allowed to eat Infidels…Al Azhar has confirmed this.
Terry Gain says
So now we have 2 Imans who explicitly disagree with the Grand Sheikh. Is anyone keeping track?
Flavius Claudius Iulianus says
“Hungary, Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia to Hold Summit in Jerusalem”
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2019/02/08/hungary-poland-visegrad-hold-summit-jerusalem/
Lydia Church says
Just think of how many more people could have been saved if they did not have those laws to begin with…
Lydia Church says
… and the whole religion of islam for that matter!
All those violent mobs would not even exist!
gravenimage says
+1
John says
Blah Blah, isis is a 100% true follower of the quran, To the Letter. lying pricks preaching Satanic islam try and Hide thew Truth. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWORE6OBfhc&fbclid=IwAR1RlCDUI_jqWNgzSD6fkF9nR_LyDP-UhU2RK98NQTAbjUrsmDeQ1hy4X54
sidney penny says
That, in a nutshell, is the problem:
A respected and clearly moderate Islamic cleric – the kind of guy, after all, happy to be seen with a pope – nevertheless is saying that in one of the world’s flagship Muslim nations, religious sensitivities are so extreme that if the civil law didn’t punish perceived acts of blasphemy, vigilante violence would be ungovernable.
sidney penny says
14 year Christian girl named Rishma,is reported to have burned pages from a Koran ( whether true or not).
Is that an invitation for vigilante violence?
You do blasphemy I kill you.
You speak blasphemy I kill you.
gravenimage says
What if Christians or Jews heard that a 14-year-old kid–especially one who was developmentally disabled–had burned pages of the Bible? Nothing, of course.
gravenimage says
Besides, as you note, this supposed epidemic of Infidels burning pages from the Qur’an all over Dar-al-Islam is *very* questionable.
Georg says
Like praising the burqa proclaiming it saves women from otherwise preventable rape.
gravenimage says
Spot on. Islam creates these problems, then “solves” them with something just as hideous.
Nietzsche says
They may be crazy, intolerant bastards, but boy, the do have the most handsome men! \sarc off
dan christensen says
It is just amazing how muslim clerics can express contradictory opinions without hesitation.
We almost get dizzy when listening to the wonderful equilibristic vocal moves with a silvery sound emanating from the learned mouth openings.
But of course – in islam it only matters what you say, not what you do. Evil misunderstanders of glorious islam dare to call the clerical nonsense hypocritical horse shit on a platter.
Leon Net says
With suicide bombers we saved millions of ppl. Without this, we will need 100 ppl to achieve the same thing as one suicide guy, and we are not sure if 100 ppl we do the job right. Maybe they will all die before they reach the target. So, with suicide bomber, we don’t have this problem anymore.
Terra Nova says
The worst is that most US, European, Australian governments have not spoken out and have not tried to protect their citizens from Islamic horrifying crimes. But I have to say, so did the citizens themselves not either
and that is treason too. Thanks to Robert Spencer and all of the people who tried to help him and some other people, who wrote excellent articles and some good people who at least thought about this mess, we are still in the picture. I don’t trust most muslims, but I don’t trust people any more either.
They could at least have opened their mouths to tell the world that they did not agree with what was happening. But no, let others do their dirty wash and they have looked the other way and still do.
If everybody had done this, we would have been in a total different circumstance.
FYI says
Tahir mahmood Ashrafi needs… to stop eating…. all the donuts.
If there is one thing allah hates,apart from Jews,Christians,Hindus,Buddhists,Atheists,music,art,literature,comedy,bacon,God’s Commandments,people who point out the errors in his “perfect” koran and science..it is muslims who eat donuts.
allah forbids it.
Donuts are clearly from shaitan.Donuts are the means by which the islamic body and soul is corrupted.Donuts were obviously invented by infidels and Zionist Israeli Jews.
“allah will pour molten lead into the nostrils of any muslim who sits eating a donut”
non-compliance of the Traveller umdat al shashlik
{These words are certainly true as they were given in a cave with no convenient witnesses.So you better believe it …or else you will be beheaded……”oh allah the best of deceivers..I mean you wouldn’t be deceiving us would you? I FORBID DONUTS answered the voice in the cave”}
Stop it Tahir!