Muslim leaders say they’ll “never, ever, ever” do that. So much for Islamic reform. My latest in PJ Media:
Australian Justice Desmond Fagan, while jailing two jihad terrorists last week, exhorted Muslims to work for genuine reform:
The incitements to violence which terrorists quote from the Koran cannot just be ignored by the many believers who desire harmonious coexistence. Those verses are not ignored by terrorists.
Indeed. But apparently Muslim leaders in Australia want you to ignore them. Responding to Fagan’s call, Dr. Ibrahim Abu Mohamed — the Grand Mufti of Australia — claimed that “only two Koran verses talk about preemptive fighting.”
Unfortunately, the reporter or reporters present apparently didn’t have the wit, interest, or journalistic standards to ask him which ones those were. There are many, many more than two verses that call upon Muslims to fight unbelievers, whether preemptively or not. Here are some of them below. Note that Qur’an 8:39 calls on Muslims to wage perpetual war against non-Muslims until they become Muslim or, as per Qur’an 9:29, submit to Islamic hegemony.
— “And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from where they drove you out; persecution is worse than slaughter. But fight them not by the Holy Mosque until they should fight you there; then, if they fight you, kill them — such is the recompense of unbelievers, but if they give over, surely Allah is all-forgiving, all-compassionate. Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is Allah’s; then if they give over, there shall be no enmity save for evildoers.” (Qur’an 2:191-193)
— “We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve for what they have associated with Allah of which He had not sent down authority. And their refuge will be the Fire, and wretched is the residence of the wrongdoers.” (Qur’an 3:151)
— “They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore do not take friends from among them, until they emigrate in the way of Allah; then, if they turn their backs, seize them and kill them wherever you find them; do not take for yourselves any one of them as friend or helper.” (Qur’an 4:89)
— “This is the recompense of those who fight against Allah and His Messenger, and hasten about the earth to do corruption there: they shall be killed, or crucified, or their hands and feet shall be struck off on opposite sides; or they shall be exiled from the land. That is a degradation for them in this world; and in the world to come awaits them a mighty chastisement.” (Qur’an 5:33)
— “When your Lord was revealing to the angels, ‘I am with you; so confirm the believers. I shall cast terror into the hearts of the unbelievers; so strike the necks, and strike every finger of them!” (Qur’an 8:12)
— “Fight them, till there is no persecution and religion is all for Allah; then if they give over, surely Allah sees the things they do.” (Qur’an 8:39)
— “Make ready for them whatever force and strings of horses you can, to strike terror into the enemy of Allah and your enemy, and others besides them that you know not; Allah knows them. And whatever you spend in the way of Allah shall be repaid you in full; you will not be wronged.” (Qur’an 8:60)
— “Then, when the sacred months are over, kill the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them, and confine them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent, and perform the prayer, and pay the alms, then let them go their way; Allah is All-forgiving, All-compassionate.” (Qur’an 9:5)
— “Fight those who believe not in Allah and the Last Day and do not forbid what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden, and do not practice the religion of truth, even if they are of the People of the Book — until they pay the jizya with willing submission and feel themselves subdued.” (Qur’an 9:29)
— “Allah has bought from the believers their selves and their possessions against the gift of Paradise; they fight in the way of Allah; they kill, and are killed; that is a promise binding upon Allah in the Torah, and the Gospel, and the Qur’an; and who fulfills his covenant truer than Allah? So rejoice in the bargain you have made with Him; that is the mighty triumph.” (Qur’an 9:111)
— “O believers, fight the unbelievers who are near to you; and let them find in you a harshness; and know that Allah is with the godfearing.” (Qur’an 9:123)
— “So do not weaken and call for peace while you are superior; and Allah is with you and will never deprive you of your deeds.” (Qur’an 47:35)
— “When you meet the unbelievers, strike their necks, then, when you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds; then set them free, either by grace or ransom, till the war lays down its loads.” (Qur’an 47:4)
But not to worry. Non-Muslim English speakers are taking these verses out of context, you see.
Silma Ihram, president of the Australian Muslim Women’s Association, “said that when the Koran is translated from Arabic to English, ‘meaning and context is lost’”:
The English translation does not convey the depths of meaning that the Koran actually holds for those relevant verses. There are very few verses in the Koran that can be twisted for violent purposes, there are a lot more in other scriptures. That is why we are working as much as we can to educate Muslims on interpreting the Koran.
If there are “a lot more” verses in other scriptures “that can be twisted for violent purposes” than there are in the Qur’an, why have there been 34,516 violent jihad attacks worldwide since 9/11 — each one committed by devout Muslims who often cited the Qur’an to explain and justify their actions — while there have been zero terror attacks by Jews or Christians who cited the Bible to explain their actions?
If Ihram had been asked that question, she would doubtless have answered that it was because of Israeli “occupation” and the depredations of American foreign policy. But The History of Jihad shows that Islamic jihad is a lot older than America and Israel, and is a constant of Islamic history everywhere Muslims have gone.
Also, if the Arabic Qur’an is benign where the English translation is incendiary, why do Arabic-speaking Muslims engage in jihad activity? Why is Saudi Arabia, where Arabic is spoken, a leading sponsor of jihad terror? Why can’t translators of the Qur’an into English figure out a way to render its true, harmless meaning?
I’ve written all of this over and over again in response to the claims of so many deceivers. It has been over 17 years since 9/11. Islamic jihad groups are active all over the world. Yet the West remains so resolutely blinkered, so unwilling to see that there even is a problem. So these deceivers keep deceiving again and again, and no one challenges them….
Read the rest here.
mortimer says
Justice Desmond Fagan is a highly motivated man with noble sentiments, but he still knows little about the legal process within Islam. The doors of ijtihad were closed in 1111AD and there is no conceivable way they may be reopened. Most people do not know that and so they COUNTERFACTUALLY dream and speculate about reforming Islam.
Quote: “… By the beginning of the fourth century (after Hegira …about A. D. 900), the point had been reached when the scholars of all schools felt that all essential questions had been thoroughly discussed and finally settled, and a consensus gradually established itself to the effect that from that time onwards no one might be deemed to have the necessary qualifications for independent reasoning in law, and that all future activity would have to be confined to the explanation, application, and, at the most, interpretation of the doctrine as it had been laid down once and for all. This “closing of the door of idjtihad”, as it was called, amounted to the demand for taklid [q.v.], the unquestioning acceptance of the doctrines of established schools and authorities. A person bound to practise taklid is called mukallid. See further Section II.
Joseph Schacht, The Encyclopaedia of Islam, New Edition. Brill, 1954–2005. Vol. 3 H-Iram on IDJTIHAD, p. 1026.
Conclusion: Muslims must use TAQLID and accept every bit of nonsense that comes from the past uncritically, such as the flat earth and sun setting in a muddy spring and the ‘bounty-hunting’ of the dirty kafirs in exchange for sex slaves in the pornographic Islamic paradise.
NONE OF THIS MAY BE ‘REFORMED’.
Michael Copeland says
Somebody tell Justice Haddon-Cave, you know, the UK judge who said:
“You’ll have plenty of time to study the Koran in prison…the Koran is a book of peace.”
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2018/03/uk-judge-tells-tube-jihadi-youll-have-plenty-of-time-to-study-the-koran-in-prison-the-koran-is-a-book-of-peace”
Angry Aussie says
The Grand Wanker of Australia only speaks Arabic. He doesn’t speak English and always has a Hizb ut Tahrir ‘translator’ with him. In actuality he understands it perfectly well, but it is beneath him to speak the language of the country he has resided in for 25 years.
For the record – only Sunni follow the Grand Wanker. Other sects do not.
He is a classy fellow.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3324755/amp/Grand-Mufti-Dr-Ibrahim-Abu-Mohamed-says-women-outside-Islam-exposed-piece-sweet-pastry.html
https://youtu.be/uKDiObbtfbY
I have no tolerance for this vile beast but wish him a very Happy Year of The Pig, for Chinese New Year.
cephash says
恭贺新禧!万事如意!吾长子生于猪年!
gravenimage says
Gung Hay Fat Choy!
By the way, this is my year–the year of the earth pig.
Terry Gain says
I am calling upon Pope Francis to disavow these verses.
dan christensen says
The big question is:
Are the Western politicians really that stupid,
or are they paid by some islam lobby,
or are the willful ignorant,
or are they cattle following some lead cow, who does not say mooh, but moe.
or do they just give a damn about islam,
or do they genuinely believe that islam is beneficial for the West,
or are they suicidal,
or do they believe to be in control of the islamic invasion,
or are they mentally retarded,
or are they closet muslims?
The answer blows in the wind.
duh swami says
It takes a lot of skill to edit perfection…
A Muslim told me that my English Quran was faulty, incomplete and wrong due to translation errors…When I asked him why Muslims print up and distribute fake Quran’s, he said the answer was to complicated for infidels,,,He said I should take my faulty Quran to the nearest mosque and turn it over to the Imam…He will know what to do…
Kepha says
Sorry, but this is a little like asking evolutionary materialists to disavow names like Charles Darwin and George Gaylord Simpson. It also exposes why the West can no longer afford a number of 18th-20th century intellectual follies.
Further, the Honorable Mr. Fagan (I don’t know how you address a judge Down Undah), exhibits the unlimited arrogance of the secular, self-proclaimed enlightened liberal, who thinks his tradition somehow has stumbled on a universal standard of right on which everyone agrees and to which they will assent, provided they are in their unaided “right” minds. In addition, this supposedly “enlightened” liberal conceit is all the more ridiculous when it is clear that modern secular liberalism has descended into a relativism that makes all moral pronouncements meaningless.
Christians (I will let the Jews speak for themselves) can look at the command to exterminate the Seven Nations of Canaan and note it was a one-time command due to a people whose sins were full (cf. Gn 15:16) and accompanied by warnings to Israel itself that a similar fate would overtake them should they fall into the same sins as those cherished by the Canaanites (the Israelites did; hence the narratives of the books of the Kings). This fearsome command was for Israel’s inheriting the land and no more. The ethical use of these passages remains as a warning that if the churches (the new Israel) are faithless, God will remove them from their place (Rev. 2:5)–not as a warrant for genocide against anyone. Indeed, the risen Messian’s Great Commission to make disciples of all nations (Mt. 28:19) may contain warrant for believing that God restrains the sins of nations to the point where none will deserve genocide prior to the Last Judgment in order to call out His elect from among them.
With the Qur’an and Hadith, however, it seems that the call to holy war is part of the warp and woof of Muhammad’s message, and is to be acted on. Hence, we shouldn’t bet the farm that Judge Fagan’s counsel will receive a hearing from its intended audience.
gravenimage says
Kepha, you actually consider it a bad thing for Infidels to ask Muslims to disavow violence? You consider it arrogant? Bad dhimmis!
Kepha says
No, gravenimage, I think it a foolish thing for Kufr to pretend they know Islam better than the faculties of al-Azhar and Qom. My hope is for Muslims to leave Islam and become Evangelical Christians.
gravenimage says
Robert Spencer in PJ Media: Judge Calls on Muslims to Disavow Violent Qur’an Verses
…………………….
Good stuff from Judge Fagan. Unfortunately, this has been the response from dhimmi lawyers and judges in Australia:
“Australia: Top lawyers, judges and provincial Supreme Court justices go to mosque to show solidarity with Muslims”
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2019/02/australia-top-lawyers-judges-and-provincial-supreme-court-justices-go-to-mosque-to-show-solidarity-with-muslims
Ronyvo says
The Muslim leaders are truthful in saying they will never ever disavow the criminal surahs in the Satanic Koran. Why should they? It is working for them. Satan is at work.
NOW, it is up to us to wake up and protect our selves from those vicious enemy who are living amongst us.
Nativ Son says
How many Christians are threatened in countries dominated by Mohammedans?