Revising history to make today’s unpleasant reality palatable. My latest in PJ Media:
The UK’s Express reports: “Winston Churchill was fascinated by the Islamic faith and some of his family believed he might have even converted to the religion after his time in India with the British Army, an uncovered letter reveals.”
This is yet another manifestation of the seemingly endless capacity of Western political and media elites for self-flagellation and self-hatred. This Islamization of Churchill is also another example of what we can call the “Jefferson’s Qur’an Tactic”: To promote Islam, claim that public figures who had any interest in Islam for any reason — even if they publicly expressed negative views of the religion — were actually enthralled by Islam, and may even have been secret converts.
The evidence for Churchill’s “fascination” and possible conversion comes from an August 1907 letter to Churchill from his future sister-in-law, Lady Gwendoline Bertie. She exhorted him: “Please don’t become converted to Islam. I have noticed in your disposition a tendency to orientalise Pasha-like tendencies, I really have. If you come into contact with Islam your conversion might be effected with greater ease than you might have supposed, call of the blood, don’t you know what I mean, do fight against it.”
Also, as the Express tells us, Churchill “took to dressing in Arabic clothing while with friends.”
Well, here is the reality of what Churchill stated about Islam, whatever “fascination” he may have had, or how often he wore Arabic clothing:
How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity.
The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property — either as a child, a wife, or a concubine — must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.
This powerful statement would get Churchill torrents of abuse from the British political and media establishment today. The Express and other British papers would excoriate Churchill as an “Islamophobe,” a bigot, a nativist, a racist, and worse.
And that’s not all: Several years ago, British politician Paul Weston was actually arrested for reciting Winston’s above quote in public.
Churchill today would never get anywhere in British politics, or anywhere else in the West for that matter. But Winston Churchill is still undeniably a hero of British history, so a new Churchill has been invented to accommodate present-day realities.
Similarly, in the United States we have a new multicultural Thomas Jefferson, who apparently revered the Qur’an and hosted a Ramadan iftar dinner at the White House. Of course, Jefferson did not revere the Qur’an, and never hosted an iftar dinner. But the facts are seldom allowed to intrude on these fantasies.
Showing once again how craven and dishonest the establishment media is today, the Express finally gets around to informing us — in its tenth paragraph — that “Churchill never seriously considered converting.”
In other words, it had no story at all but published one anyway. That’s modern journalism at its apex….
Read the rest here.
James Hilborn says
Churchill once said that ‘the difference between a radical Muslim and a moderate Muslim is that the radical Muslim will cut your head off whereas the moderate Muslim will only hold your feet.
gravenimage says
James, I don’t think this is the correct attribution–no one was talking about “radical Muslims” in Churchill’s day. Still, a perceptive quote.
Frederick King says
Did native americans convert also ? No.
James Lincoln says
“UK Media Claims Churchill Was ‘Fascinated’ With Islam”
If one substitutes “interested in learning about” for “fascinated” the statement would be correct.
This would, of course, also include all Jihad Watch readers/posters.
Tom says
Churchill was a great believer in knowing ones enemy in order to be able to defeat him.
Because he had studied Islam does not mean that he had accepted it, in actual fact nothing could be further from the truth. He became so knowledgeable that he is able to point to the weaknesses and regressive control of Islam in such a way that he indeed educates the reader.
Churchill was never a convert to Islam, he was one of its most outspoken critics of his time. The leftist progressives and Islamists are grasping at straws on this one which is so easily refuted.
James Lincoln says
Well put, Tom.
Martha Raffae says
Thank you for a concise response regarding Churchill’s understanding of Islam. He most certainly did not hold the ideology in high regard as suggested by media nor would he ever have converted.
gravenimage says
Good posts, James and Tom.
keith Oades says
That’s about right. Comes under the concept of “KNOW YOUR ENEMY”.
Terry Gain says
Yes. And don’t forget that Jesus was a prophet of Islam. As were Abraham and Moses. And of course Islam is a religion of peace. No lie is too big in the service of Allah and his prophet Muhammad, the world’s first feminist.
Was it Churchill who said the call to prayer is the sweetest sound in the world and that future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam. Or was it the other guy, the one who famously said “Islam has a proud tradition of tolerance”.
FYI says
“Jesus was a prophet of islam”
The dawa people use the false claim that Jesus was a muslim prophet to trick Christians into thinking allah is the same as God.It comes from here:-
“Then {Mary} pointed to{Jesus in a crib}They said:How can we talk to one who is in the cradle,an infant boy”
“He spake:Lo! I am the slave of allah.he hath given me the scripture and hath appointed me a prophet”
koran 19{Maryam} v 29-30
“He spake”.
THE INFANT SPAKE…
Remember,all this takes place with a TALKING INFANT IN A CRIB:an infant who even has the Gospel{..Jesus never had the Gospel..}
So the dawa people use “I am the slave of allah” to claim Jesus a muslim prophet:but infants cannot speak like adults nor would know anything about scripture or what a prophet even was.
allah may think infants can speak but Christians don’t:not even infant Jesus could speak like an adult.
Thus the dawa trick is based on a ludicrous falsehood:a talking infant.
Other tricks of the dawa trade:pretending that allah is the same as the Biblical God{as Dhimmis like pope francis think}and changing the meaning of words to confuse the issue{the diacritics game..}arguing that only those who know Arabic can understand{a trick which won’t work with ex-muslim atheists,Arab Christians,non-muslim scholars,the internet etc}
Raja says
Terry Gain,
Churchill was so critical of Islam but he has not been spared. By the same yardstick Obama, whom you have quoted is surely Islamic apologist.
When prince Charles dies I won’t be surprised if his body is claimed by Muslims for Islamic last rites as they would claim- he was always a secret Muslim. Thank God Churchill escaped the ignominy of all this in spite of the one odd letter (I wonder if it really was genuine.). Prince Charles is such a useless bloke he might even convert to Islam by the time he dies.
Rufolino says
I grieve for young people today, educated with drivel like this. The future is going to be grim.
Renate says
Churchill was NOT a Muslim at any stage of his life.
Elizabeth Baklaich says
Snopes didn’t even try to put forth this lie; they also acknowledge, in changing his book from 2 volumes to 1, the above statement from Churchill was omitted. Thank you for reminding us all of this truth.
Lynn says
Seems odd to think that when Churchill actually said: “Individual muslims may show splendid qualities but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No Stronger retrograde force exists in the world’. WC 1899
Wellington says
Figuring out Churchill’s religious views has been a puzzle for many historians and others. Based on what I have been able to find out over the years it seems that Churchill in this regard was very similar to many of the Founding Fathers of America (and let’s not forget that his own mother was an American—Jennie Jerome) who were not conventional Christians, did not believe Jesus divine, but did think there was a Higher Power, a Supreme Being. It was more of a philosophical than religious approach to a possible God that Founding Fathers like Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin took. I think this is the most likely “route” Churchill took as well, though I cannot completely rule out he was an agnostic or even an atheist. He certainly had a respect for Christianity as an institution and as a great ethical guide to a great nation which was the UK, just as skeptics like Jefferson and Franklin did where America was concerned.
The American Founding Father who most reminds me of Churchill where the matter of religion is the topic is George Washington. Unlike his American peers such as Jefferson and Franklin, who expressed their views on religion, Jesus, et al. very directly and clearly to close associates, Washington was very tight lipped about this. I know of no statement or writing of his that either indicates he was a traditional Christian or that he was not. He did on several occasions refer to a Higher Power that guided man’s affairs but that’s about it. Washington did think people in general should be religious because it acted as both a guide for, and restraint of, the individual and this led him to say something to the effect that he would even welcome Mohammedans in America because they too believed in God, but I have little doubt that although Washington knew a great deal about many things he knew next to nothing about Islam—and Islam in the 18th century was essentially in slumber mode (North African Mohammedan pirates aside) and just not something that most in the West really paid any attention to (hell, many in the West still don’t even though by now they should since Islam, stocked with Western technology and in full fervent mode again, is a menace to all free societies).
So, the puzzle remains about Churchill exactly where he stood on religion in general, but, for me, not on the matter of Islam. He saw how retrograde it was and anyone who could say, as Churchill did, “Islam in a man is like hydrophobia {rabies} in a dog,” is not someone who had any real respect for this religion, let alone converting to it. Might as well say Jefferson admired Islam because he had a copy of the Koran in his library but, as I indicated on a previous thread a week ago or so, I have copies of the Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf in my library and I detest both Marxism and Nazism.
Guess we’ll never clear up exactly where Churchill stood on religious matters and perhaps this is the way the Great Man wanted it. But an admirer of Islam? No, not buying it in the least, one letter by his future sister-in-law notwithstanding, and which person was almost surely unaware of many dimensions of Churchill’s mind.
gravenimage says
Good analysis, Wellington.
mortimer says
Agree. A fair assessment. Winston Churchill apparently believed that acting honorably was what was required by religious duty. He also confessed to gaining comfort and strength from prayer. He seems to have been deist similar to George Washington. Churchill seems to have felt that religion was helpful if it motivated people to action through optimism.
His famous quote against Islam includes the interesting phrase: ‘Christianity sheltered in the arms of science’.
Mac-101 says
About 10 years ago I was tryin to find the quote that was supposedly said by him when in charge of the Admiralty. It supposedly was Great Britton was made great by the British Navy which was made great by Rum, the Flog and Buggery.
I never found it but did find several articles claiming Churchill had a male actor/singer lover one time.
If this true may explain his attraction to Islam and Oreintslim. We all know this connection
I
Fred Middleton says
All that he said was that naval tradition amounted to rum, the lash and sodomy. Just an insult to old fashioned admirals.
gravenimage says
What a lot of rot.
As Fred notes, this was not meant in a positive sense.
Here is the context:
https://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,,-1433,00.html
The idea that his quoting this well-known trope meant that he was in favor of the abuse of boys is absurd. Note, also, that all three of these “traditions” were thankfully very much things of the past at the time. Churchill was just twitting the hidebound admiralty.
mortimer says
http://www.thisdayinquotes.com/2010/08/rum-sodomy-and-lash-winston-churchills.html
“Rum, sodomy, prayers and the lash” according to diplomat Harold Nicolson’s diary.
The later years: 1945-1962, Harold Nicolson, Nigel Nicolson, Atheneum, 1966
Wellington says
Seconded, gravenimage, mortimer too. But with Mac-101 a veritable plethora of conspiratorial views are never too far fetched. For instance, Mac-101 has opined at this site that the Federal Reserve was responsible for JFK’s assassination.
Mac-101 says
So Middleton and Mortimer confirmed that the saying I heard thrown around which was used by us Army guys to taunt the British Sailors/Soldiers with was basically attributed to Churchill. I gave up and never did find it. Thanks for confirming it for me.
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As I said, I was researching some notables who were the product of the Elite British Boarding schools of the late 19th and early 20th century. Buggery among the lads was supposedly prevalent. I even ran across a few articles that said Churchill was accused of some of this stuff that was overly rough. I really don’t remember that well. Also what stuck with me is that he had a relatively serous fling with a male performer of his day. My research confirmed to me that the ME Occidental infatuation of the British Ruling class did exist.
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As for Islam and boys I should not have to say anything about it to you. As having lived in Islamic Paradises I KNOW it is true!
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As for the Federal Reserve being solely responsible for JFK, absolutely NOT. However with Kennedy preparing to take on the FED is what gave the green light to the Agency and the rest of the Deep State to dispatch him. If you really believe JFK was killed by a single bullet and a lone gunman would explain why you do NOT now believe that the Islamic Invasion is a globalist tool to destroy Western Civilization so the the Globalist can implement their NWO!
Wellington says
MAC-101: Thanks for your reply.
gravenimage says
Mac-101 wrote:
So Middleton and Mortimer confirmed that the saying I heard thrown around which was used by us Army guys to taunt the British Sailors/Soldiers with was basically attributed to Churchill. I gave up and never did find it. Thanks for confirming it for me.
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Sure. As noted, this taunt much predated Churchill, and was very much a thing of the past by WWII, in any case.
More:
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As I said, I was researching some notables who were the product of the Elite British Boarding schools of the late 19th and early 20th century. Buggery among the lads was supposedly prevalent.
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Most of these were all-boys schools. I’m sure it occurred; I don’t know that it was rife. Bu this would have effected most of the British upper class, in any case, not just Winston Churchill.
More:
I even ran across a few articles that said Churchill was accused of some of this stuff that was overly rough. I really don’t remember that well. Also what stuck with me is that he had a relatively serous fling with a male performer of his day.
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All I can find is the claim that there was an “original and proper” Sandhurst file on Churchill that called him a “a confirmed sodomite and a menace to the younger boys”. The only evidence of this, since no such file exists, is the claim in the the diary of Soviet agent Guy Burges. I’m not sure I’d put a lot of stock in *that*.
More:
My research confirmed to me that the ME Occidental infatuation of the British Ruling class did exist.
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Well, this is true. It is also no secret. There was popular “Orientalism” all over Western Europe, dating from the late 18th century up until the mid-20th century. I have written several papers on French and British “Orientalist” art. You can see it in plenty of children’s stories and early-20th-century books and films.
This was general romanticizing, and had nothing to do with pedophilia.
More:
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As for Islam and boys I should not have to say anything about it to you. As having lived in Islamic Paradises I KNOW it is true!
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This is true. It doesn’t mean this was shared by civilized Infidels, though.
More:
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As for the Federal Reserve being solely responsible for JFK, absolutely NOT. However with Kennedy preparing to take on the FED is what gave the green light to the Agency and the rest of the Deep State to dispatch him. If you really believe JFK was killed by a single bullet and a lone gunman would explain why you do NOT now believe that the Islamic Invasion is a globalist tool to destroy Western Civilization so the the Globalist can implement their NWO!
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It is highly unlikely that the FED had anything to do with the assassination of Kennedy.
And Jihad *much* predates any modern idea of globalism.
Muslims are not the victims of the Illuminati or Masons or anyone else.
Mac-101 says
No one is sayin Muslims are victims. They are definitely bein used by the Elites for a nefarious purpose. WHY?
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As for the FED. You do KNOW the FED is privately owned and it is secrete who owns it. Some say 13 families control it. It is a major tool of the Elites in controlling the world economy. Gadhafi initiated his African Gold currency and attempted to replace the IMF! Didn’t work out too good for him or Europe.
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There are hundreds of solid dots on the JFK case. One amusing thing that was released on the last JFK document dump about two years ago was that George Sergius de Mohrenschildt was also a family friend of the Hinckley’s. You know the boy that shot Reagan for the love of a Lesbian? He also was a good friend of Jackie Kennedy’s parents and Jackie called her Uncle. He also was a friend of Lee Harvey Oswald and his wife . He also was a friend of the Bushes.
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He just popped up all around the world as an oil geologist as revolutions popped up. If I remember correctly he suicide himself, perhaps a shotgun just prior to bein called to testify. Just one amusing dot.
gravenimage says
Mac-101 wrote:
No one is sayin Muslims are victims. They are definitely bein used by the Elites for a nefarious purpose. WHY?
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Most in the West are in denial about the threat of Islam. Is *everyone* here in on this conspiracy?
More:
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As for the FED. You do KNOW the FED is privately owned and it is secrete who owns it. Some say 13 families control it. It is a major tool of the Elites in controlling the world economy.
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Here’s some information about the Federal Reserve:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve
The only source I could find for the “13 secret families” claim is Stormfront. I hope that’s not where you are getting your information, Mac.
https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t845445/
This is pretty goofy stuff, even for Stormfront–and God knows *that* is saying a lot.
More:
Gadhafi initiated his African Gold currency and attempted to replace the IMF! Didn’t work out too good for him or Europe.
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Well, this is just silly. Gadhafi was a victim of the revival of Islam sweeping the Middle East, Levant, and Mahgreb (despite his being a Jihadist himself–see Lockerbie–he was just not Islamic *enough*). He was not whacked by Western banking interests out to quash a revival of the gold standard.
More:
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There are hundreds of solid dots on the JFK case. One amusing thing that was released on the last JFK document dump about two years ago was that George Sergius de Mohrenschildt was also a family friend of the Hinckley’s. You know the boy that shot Reagan for the love of a Lesbian? He also was a good friend of Jackie Kennedy’s parents and Jackie called her Uncle. He also was a friend of Lee Harvey Oswald and his wife . He also was a friend of the Bushes.
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From what I know, Mohrenschildt was himself a conspiracy theorist. He regularly ranted about the “Jewish Mafia”.
More:
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He just popped up all around the world as an oil geologist as revolutions popped up. If I remember correctly he suicide himself, perhaps a shotgun just prior to bein called to testify. Just one amusing dot.
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Actually, an investigator with the HSCA just said he wanted to talk to him. No formal testifying.
Mac-101 says
Ownership of the private 12 Banks of the FED have been speculated on long before Stormfront. I do NOT go on that web site for obvious reasons. You may wish to look into Operation Mockingbird and the Church Commission and government agents in Radical Organizations.
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A good book that sums up the FED pretty well is “The Creature From Jekyll Island”.
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You are extremely sensitive if anyone who is Jewish is criticized. If your goin to keep an open mind you must understand Jew or Gentile, Rothschild or Rockefeller these Scumbag International BANKSTERS worship the Golden Calf.
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As for Kaddafi. You’ve been on this site most likely as long as I have, since after 911. You do NOT recall Obama, Clinton, SOROS overthrowing Kaddafi?
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Only the Top leaders need to be in on a Conspiracy. The rest of the Sheeple gladly follow.
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It is well documented that Mohrenschildlt was a family friend of ALL the above I mentioned. It does not matter since he supposedly ranted about the “Jewish Mafia”. Do you not find it a little strange? Just as it is NOT strange ALL the family/friends connects Mueller has with CIA and Intel agencies and agents, the Deep State?
Rufolino says
Of course homosexuality was present below decks in the Royal Navy, it is present everywhere, especially in all-male institutions. It’s called life. Maybe Churchill experienced a homosexual liaison at some point. It’s called experiencing life. So what ?
Mac-101 says
I served 42 years from 1971 to 2014 in the US Army in ALL Combat Units. Never heard of a Homosexual attack unit the Ether Bunny stories in the Gulf War I in which supposedly occurred in my Brigade.
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Around 1999 we had a soldier who beat to death another soldier who stole his girlfriend who was really a guy who had his junk cut off and danced in a Gay club and was labeled a Gay Hate Crime. That started ALL the quarterly Gay appreciation/sensitivity training classes we started gitting in the 101st and continued till I got out.
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Starting around 2005 we were havin more MALE soldiers raped by males than female soldiers and as I understand it this trend has continued.
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One does NOT dare pass out in the Company Day Room or even your barracks room without insuring the door is locked! Obama BUILT this!
gravenimage says
Robert Spencer in PJ Media: UK Media Claims Churchill Was ‘Fascinated’ With Islam, May Have Been a Muslim
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Revisionist history intended to make Islam look good. What calumny against a great man who perfectly understood the threat of Islam.
R Russell says
‘God and Churchill’. I haven’t read it but is supposed to be good. Found in any good bookshop
gravenimage says
I’ve seen that book, but have not read it yet.
Ross Lloyd says
Churchill fought them, killed them, detested them.
SAF says
The re-writing of History is a necessity for the undoing of all that is good. Facilitators of Learning are teaching that Islam is the only holy religion.. teaching Jesus and the Bible are stories… and that the Jewish religion is old an obsolete. I read those very words myself before the District website information was no longer accessible. “We will teach religion as literature” is what Government Nationalized Education announced. Now, some 15 years later, we have students who are saying the prayer to become a members of Islam, visiting mosques, learning the Koran and celebrating national dress like a Muslim day. And so it continues the re-writing of History.
May God Bless America.
Peter WF says
Currently reading Churchill’s book – The River War.
The first 10s of pages will tell you what he thought of them. And it is not positive.
gravenimage says
These idiots are hoping that no one reads the original sources.