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Hugh Fitzgerald: El-Sisi On “60 Minutes” — Take Two

Mar 13, 2019 10:00 am By Hugh Fitzgerald

Abdulfattah El-Sisi some time ago gave an interview to Scott Pelley of CBS’s “60 Minutes.” Shortly after it was taped, Egypt’s ambassador to the United States requested that the interview not be aired. CBS refused the request. All reports suggest that El-Sisi had reconsidered the wisdom of having his remarks broadcast about close military collaboration with Israel in the Sinai.

In the interview, El-Sisi made a number of remarks that have raised eyebrows. He was asked about the killing on August 14, 2013 of what Pelley described as “nearly 1,000” supporters of the Muslim Brotherhood, in Rabaa Al-Adawiya Square and al-Nahda Square. They were there to protest the coup that on July 3 had deposed Mohamed Morsi. El-Sisi questioned Pelley’s information. He said the Egyptian government’s figure is not 1,000, but 638 dead. El-Sisi then said, “There were thousands of armed people in the sit-in for more than 40 days. We tried every peaceful means to disperse them.” It is true that the Egyptian government continually broadcast messages to the more than 10,000 who had set up camps, and offering a safe exit out for anyone who wished to take advantage, until August 14, when the security services — police and army — used tear gas, rubber bullets, birdshot, and finally, live ammunition to disperse the protesters.

What is not clear is how many of those protesters were armed. The Egyptian government itself reported that just over a dozen guns were recovered among the thousands in the protest camp. Had it been trying to convey the message that many of these were “armed protesters,” it could simply have announced that “hundreds of guns” had been found. As for recovering “just over a dozen guns,” that of course does not include guns that could have been spirited away by the thousands of protesters who finally left. About 50 policemen were killed during the melee, evidence that not all the Muslim Brotherhood protesters were unarmed.

El-Sisi was then asked by Pelley how many “political prisoners” Egypt is holding. He replied that “We don’t have any political prisoners or prisoners of opinion. We are trying to stand against extremists who impose their ideology on the people.” He also dismissed a report by Human Rights Watch that said Egyptian authorities “have arrested or charged probably at least 60,000 people” since the 2013 military coup that ousted Morsi. El-Sisi reply: “I don’t know where they got that figure. I said there are no political prisoners in Egypt.” This categorical denial is absurd. And perhaps it, too, along with his remarks about Israel, was something El-Sisi wished, on second thought, not to be broadcast.

El-Sisi might have said something different. He might have replied, more comprehensively, and going on the offensive:

I don’t know how they arrived at this figure. Mr. Pelley, let me tell you about the Muslim Brotherhood.

The Muslim Brotherhood is regarded not just by us in Egypt, but by other Arab states — the Emirates, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain — as much more than a political movement; it’s been designated as a “terror group” in those countries. And in your own country, your Senators have been considering passage of the “Muslim Brotherhood Terrorist Designation Act.” A leading American Muslim moderate, Mr. Zuhdi Jasser, testified in favor of this designation. Here is what he said:

“No group embodies the threat of the radical Islamist more than the Muslim Brotherhood, or in Arabic, Ikhwān Muslimīn. The Muslim Brotherhood is a terrorist organization[.] … Help us, modern-minded, secular, liberal Muslims marginalize their influence by declaring them what they are – a terrorist organization.”

Apparently you think, Mr. Pelley, that we in Egypt, who have had 90 years of experience with the Muslim Brotherhood, are supposed to endure forever their violent challenge to the state. We gave them forty days to disperse from the center of Cairo. That was more than enough. As for the Human Rights Watch figures, figures which my government strongly disputes, those apparently include both those who have “been arrested” and those who have been “charged.” So how many were “arrested” in a sweep and then let go, and how many were in the end actually “charged”? These two categories need to be disentangled.

What could Pelley then reply?

The part of the interview that caused the Egyptian government to request that it not be broadcast had to do, of course, with Israel. Pelley asked El-Sisi about whether his military was working with Israel against terrorists in North Sinai. El-Sisi confirmed this.

Asked if this cooperation was the closest ever between the former enemies, El-Sisi said, “That is correct… We have a wide range of cooperation with the Israelis.”

Here is what he might have said, going on the offensive:

“That is correct, Mr. Pelley. We have a wide range of cooperation with Israel. Egypt and Israel are both concerned with Daesh establishing itself in the Sinai. Daesh — you know what that means. It means unbelievable terror of every kind, suicide bombers, mass decapitations, burning people to death. The Israelis have not objected in the slightest to our moving soldiers and weapons — artillery, helicopter gunships — into all areas of the Sinai as needed.

This is an oblique reference to the provisions of the Israel-Egypt peace treaty, which put limitations on the number of troops and weapons Egypt can have in the part of the Sinai closest to Israel.

And we have not objected to the Israelis hitting Daesh targets from the air, with drones, helicopters, planes. And we share intelligence on Daesh and other terrorists. If our interests coincide, why shouldn’t we cooperate? Mr. Pelley, are you trying to make me apologize for this? You know what Daesh is like. I won’t do it.

He can, of course, still offer these replies, on facing down the Muslim Brotherhood five and a half years ago in Cairo, on political prisoners, and on cooperation with Israel against Daesh. El-Sisi need only arrange to be interviewed by another American news outlet. He’s a despot. But a semi-enlightened one. What do people expect? Florence Nightingale? This is the Middle East.

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Filed Under: Egypt, Featured, Hugh Fitzgerald Tagged With: 60 Minutes, Abdulfattah El-Sisi, CBS, Scott Pelley


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Comments

  1. CRUSADER says

    Mar 13, 2019 at 10:17 am

    Tick Tick Tick

    Time is running out….

    https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/273133/dear-jewish-american-leftists-its-time-talk-valerie-sobel

    Jews of America: it’s time to talk….seriously.

  2. mortimer says

    Mar 13, 2019 at 10:22 am

    The Arab countries surrounding Israel have common interests with Israel for security and stability in the region and the promotion of international commerce and trade in the region. These things cannot develop with military cooperation. Obviously, ALL the Arab countries surrounding Israel are making military deals and pacts with Israel, openly or clandestinely.

    Only a doctrinaire robot would not see it. The extremists are willing to burn their own countries to the ground in order to oppose Israel. They are like Hitler in his last days hoping for a military miracle while watching Germans get destroyed.

    • mortimer says

      Mar 13, 2019 at 10:24 am

      correction: These things cannot develop withOUT military cooperation

    • CRUSADER says

      Mar 13, 2019 at 10:37 am

      A strong Israel only benefits the trading countries surrounding Israel.

      Rising waters float all boats, after all.

  3. CRUSADER says

    Mar 13, 2019 at 10:30 am

    Presuming that El-Asisi could’ve/would’ve/should’ve said this: “… modern-minded, secular, liberal Muslims…”

    — Does this mean that there ARE such people as “moderate” Muslims?

    Is REFORM of Islam thus possible to bring into the modern world?

    It has been posited on Jihad Watch that Islam CANNOT reform;
    that reform in Islam only means going to its core — which is what the Iowan and ISIL/ISIS had done….

    So, what gives?
    What is actual?

    Can the likes of reform-minded Muslims/ex-Muslims:

    Tarek Fatah
    Tawfik Hamid
    Maajid Nawab
    Asra Nomani
    Irshad Manji
    Raheel Raza
    Amina Wadud

    — ever make a dent in Islam?

  4. CRUSADER says

    Mar 13, 2019 at 10:35 am

    Somehow autocorrect changed
    Ikhwān Muslimīn
    to “lowan”

    Must’ve been the Lowenbrau….
    or
    St Paddy Day is approaching (after all Owen/Eoin is derived from Latin Ioannes)

    Well, here’s to driving out the snakes!

    Cheers!!!

    +++++++

  5. Oren Wysocki says

    Mar 13, 2019 at 11:00 am

    I tend to think of the absurdity of claiming Israel is racist for trying to defend themselves from ‘palestinians’ who wish to deny Jews of equal rights before the law, and commit a mass murder of Jews if they gain an opportunity to do so through war or the ballot box. But you are right it does apply to secular egyptians and non muslim egyptians as well. In G-d I trust.

  6. Walter Sieruk says

    Mar 13, 2019 at 11:00 am

    Not to get too much of f the topic of this above article .Nevertheless its worth noting that Facebook is banned me again starting today 3/13 /18, for 29 days for violating their politically correct “Community standards” What follows is the essay that that Facebook to awful and they put me on this ban.

    Those Muslim migrants who were allowed to enter Britain a along with the other countries of Western Europe with result in them not only being ungrateful but even worse yet many of those Muslim migrants becoming so very arrogant to the point that they became criminals . As in some of them engaged in rioting and even rapes of the European girls and women. In addition to this vile brutal behavior by the heinous Muslim who were kindly permitted to enter the nations of Europe to live, As the countries of ,for example France, Germany Sweden, Denmark etc. This unthankful Islamic spirit on the part of those lawless violent Muslims who immigrated to the countries of Europe may be explain, in part, by the fact that the Muslim fundamentalist group that even had the president of Egypt assassinated in the month of October of the year 1981 has a fifty –five booklet that is was written only for Muslims fundamentalists but was later discover by non-Muslims. This booklet’s title is THE NEGLECTED DUTY. One scholar, Johannes Jansen who had thoroughly investigated Islam and Islamic terrorism has even discover that those Muslims, who had entered Europe of behaved in violent and heinous ways, are actually action out what they view and a sacred individual duty of the jihad as by engaging in awful violent criminal action in non-Muslim lands . As Jansen revealed that jihad booklet of Islam, THE NEGLECTED DUTY “contains all the ideological material needed to justify the attacks of 9/11 or any other acts of terror committed to frighten non-Muslims. And he thinks the document explains the criminal behavior of suburban and center –city immigrant youngsters in many European cities; its author clearly ‘sees Islam as license to kill rob and commit arson.’ “ [1] Nevertheless, many of the apologists for Islam still have that blatant gall , in spite of all the facts of reality, to actually make the claim the Islam is a “peaceful religion.” What a totally false to make that Islam is “a peaceful religion “What Bull! A “peaceful religion” indeed.

    [1] THE ISLAM IN ISLAMIC TERRORISM by Ibn Warraq pages 308, 309.

    • CRUSADER says

      Mar 13, 2019 at 11:35 am

      Walter, what did you do to get banned from Farcebook?
      What “Community Standards” are deemed unworthy?

      • Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY) says

        Mar 13, 2019 at 12:52 pm

        Can someone please briefly explain the Facebook “Community Standards”? Walter Sieruk, by signing up with Facebook, becomes part of the Facebook community and therefore gets to vote on the tenets of Facebook’s community standards, right? Kind of like when you join up with Islam, you get a say in what provisions Sharia shall include. How often does the Facebook community hold votes on what provisions shall be added to or deleted from the Facebook community standards?

      • Walter Sieruk says

        Mar 13, 2019 at 2:55 pm

        To Crusader, Twice this year and twice last year Facebook banned me ,for a time, for violations of is C.S. Because they became offended by by keyboarding about Islam and Muslim terrorists..
        What a PC entity Facebook chooses to be .Shame on them.

      • gravenimage says

        Mar 16, 2019 at 11:14 pm

        So sorry to hear this, Walter. You are always reasonable and non-violent in your posts, so this is ridiculous.

  7. somehistory says

    Mar 13, 2019 at 2:35 pm

    No matter what is said, or how it is said, as long as “moslims” are killed…esp the violent ones who have taken up the sword, bomb, knife, airplane, truck, etc. in order to take innocent lives, in order to murder, in order to rape, in order to advance islam everywhere there is a breathing soul…the killing will be seen in a bad light.

    In the modern climate of “moslims are a protected species”, a “vulnerable creature group”…no words will keep the complainers from complaining when someone rejects the whining, the screaming, the rioting, the killing, the raping by moslims, and does something to stop the crimes of violence and terror.

    But, this circumstance will end. Nothing in human life and relations is constant…except change. The “hour” for the moslims will end and Justice will be applied.

  8. thebigW says

    Mar 13, 2019 at 4:30 pm

    Why Egyptian Putschist General Al-Sisi’s Anti-Secular U.S. Army War College Thesis Matters, by Andrew Bostom

    Key extracts from the essay:

    Wednesday, 8/7/13, Foreign Policy made available online the 2006 “mini-thesis” of Egyptian General Abdel Fattah al-Sisi, written during his tenure at the Carlisle Barracks, PA, U.S. Army War College, within an essay by Eric Trager.

    As documented earlier, re-affirmed in an e-mail exchange, below, with the U.S. Army War College Library’s Acting Director, Tuesday, 8/6/13, I was unable to obtain a copy of el-Sisi’s thesis from the Inter-Library Loan office due to its “classification” status:

    —–Original Message—–
    From: Acting Director, U.S. Army War College Library

    Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 12:09 PM
    To: Andrew Bostom
    Cc: USARMY Carlisle Barracks AWC Mailbox LIBRARYR; USARMY Carlisle Barracks AWC Mailbox LIBRARYC
    Subject: RE: Thesis via Inter-Library Loan/pdf?

    Sir,

    The U.S. Army War College Library is not able to fill your request. The paper’s caveat, “Distribution authorized to U.S. Government agencies only,” means it cannot be released to individuals or libraries outside the federal government.

    The War College Library’s initial rejection of my request Friday 8/2/13 prompted a Freedom of Information Act demand for its release by Judicial Watch, which was honored Thursday, August 8, 2013 (thesis available here), albeit some hours after the thesis had inexplicably appeared online at Foreign Policy.

    …Ignoring all of the doctrinal and historical evidence adduced herein, Eric Trager’s brief analysis of al-Sisi’s mini-thesis, grudgingly conceded that Springborg’s prior assessment that the General was “ an Islamist”, i.e., anti-secular, Sharia-supremacist, “may prove accurate.” But Trager concludes he is more likely “a Mubarak clone.”

    Trager’s conclusion thus ignores the most important—and striking—difference between al-Sisi, and Mubarak: al-Sisi’s unequivocal rejection of secularism, and Mubarak’s embrace of it.

    Then US Ambassador to Egypt Margaret Scobey’s Tuesday, May 19, 2009, confidential assessment of Mubarak emphasizes his support for a secular model of governance:

    Mubarak is a classic Egyptian secularist who hates religious extremism and interference in politics. [emphasis added] The Muslim Brothers represent the worst, as they challenge not only Mubarak’s power, but his view of Egyptian interests. As with regional issues, Mubarak, seeks to avoid conflict and spare his people from the violence he predicts would emerge from unleashed personal and civil liberties. In Mubarak’s mind, it is far better to let a few individuals suffer than risk chaos for society as a whole. He has been supportive of improvements in human rights in areas that do not affect public security or stability. Mrs. Mubarak has been given a great deal of room to maneuver to advance women’s and children’s rights and to confront some traditional practices that have been championed by the Islamists, such as FGM [i.e., female genital mutilation, sanctioned by not merely “Islamists,” in Egypt, as noted earlier], child labor, and restrictive personal status laws.

    Now publicly revealed, in full, al-Sisi’s expressed ideology—in both his 2006 mini-thesis, as well as its “leavening” by the recent comments he made to the Washington Post—must be featured prominently in the debate on military, and all other forms of aid to Egypt. Moreover, the fulfillment of his Islamic, Sharia-based vision—which will surely result in the ongoing abrogation of fundamental Western freedoms of conscience and speech, and continued legal discrimination against non-Muslims and women, that have plagued modern Egypt for two centuries, now—also merits serious consideration.

  9. thebigW says

    Mar 13, 2019 at 5:18 pm

    “prompted a Freedom of Information Act demand for its release by Judicial Watch, which was honored Thursday, August 8, 2013 (thesis available here)”

    I tried clicking for that Al-Sisi military college thesis where he supports jihad, “Page not found” – damn!

    https://www.andrewbostom.org/2013/08/why-egyptian-putschist-general-al-sisis-anti-secular-u-s-army-war-college-thesis-matters/

  10. gravenimage says

    Mar 16, 2019 at 11:16 pm

    Well, Al-Sisi is better than the Muslim Brotherhood, anyway…

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