A glimpse into the (near) future of Europe and North America. In the West now, those who are considered to have insulted Muhammad and Islam are merely vilified in the press, increasingly barred from social media, and shunned by all decent people. Arrests are coming.
“Jakim’s special unit to monitor online insults to Islam,” FMT News, March 7, 2019:
PETALING JAYA: Putrajaya has set up a special unit to monitor online activity for any form of insult against Islam, following several cases of people allegedly insulting Prophet Muhammad on Facebook.
Minister in the Prime Minister’s Department Mujahid Yusof Rawa said the unit, which will come under the Malaysian Islamic Development Department (Jakim), has been tasked with monitoring any form of writing or provocation against Islam or Prophet Muhammad on all media platforms including social media….
Police have so far detained three people accused of insulting Prophet Muhammad on Facebook.
Top cop Mohamad Fuzi Harun said that as of March 5, police had received 929 reports across the country and opened 16 investigation papers on cases connected to insulting Islam.
Police are also tracking down another man who allegedly insulted the prophet on Twitter.
WBSM says
I wouldn’t want to insult any persons of the Mohammedan religion, but islam deserves no respect and the fact that the Malaysian government monitors the Internet for insults of islam, perfectly highlights why. It is an evil religion (if can be properly called a religion), a despicable ideology.
Cathryn Paradise says
You don’t even have to say or do anything about Islam in order to insult Islam because Moslems will make up things to be offended by. For example, you read a Bible quietly to yourself in public, you have insulted Islam.
Frank Anderson says
I continue to believe that it would be quite interesting to see a foreign government submit to US jurisdiction by trying to have a US citizen arrested and extradited for violating their foreign law over the internet. I believe US law would subject the foreign law enforcement people to arrest and conviction for violating US civil rights under color of law, which would really be fun to watch, and awesome to share.
Imagine being able to arrest and imprison Hitler’s SS for their crimes before and during the war!. The effect of the Treaty of London which removes (abrogates) the defense of superior orders makes anyone who violates basic human rights established in the UN Charter and elsewhere, including free speech, subject to prosecution and punishment. COME TO THE US AND TRY IT!.
Notice which country was chosen for NK to kill Kim’s relative a short while ago. Constitutions can be quite beneficial at times, Isn’t it a shame how rare they are?
Westman says
Interesting idea, Frank. In addition to Interpol we could have the Internetpol. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the EU try to create it, on the way down.
Did you notice the glaring oxymoron in the new Malay agency name, “Islamic Development Department”?
Frank Anderson says
W. it is highly ironic to connect the word “development” to a “system” that is “final, perfect, complete and unchangeable”. Any development, or worse, reform, is punishable by death. I think we must always remember that lying is always to be done to confuse the opponents of islam. Basic, core teaching practiced for 1400 years.
Frank Anderson says
W., could the word “development” be translated incorrectly?
Westman says
Dénouement?
Frank Anderson says
Westman, I struggle with American English. If I were naming the agency in English it would not be Development, but possibly Protection or Oppression or Conquest or Deception or for that matter Liars Protecting Lies. All of those would be true without even hinting at any change or reform.
elee says
Ummmm, well I haven’t checked this before writing, I apologise if my memory is incorrect, but…….didn’t the Nazis capture Interpol for a number of years there? And aren’t the Muslims trying now? When will they demand that Interpol arrest blasphemers and apostates? Rape victims?
Note that before our Civil War, southern states routinely banned the publication of abolitionist materials……and then demanded that northern states extradite writers for prosecution for violating these laws.
Frank Anderson says
I have no foundation to question your account. I am pretty sure the local and supreme courts of my state, and probably the Federal courts, would be a harsh place to try to obtain extradition for writing truthfully on the internet. Internet fraud, such as credit card or identify theft would be an entirely different matter. But writing the truth is almost certainly, beyond any reasonable question, Constitutionally protected free speech and free press. What the Constitution protects, no foreign government can reach into the US in an attempt to punish. Such an effort would deserve the worst criminal punishment under US law that could be applied.
elee says
Entire agreement with all your post but I do believe there should be enforceable civil liability for those who advise solicit or procure terrorist crimes.
Frank Anderson says
elee, the reason I routinely add “Please consult a currently licensed attorney. . .” is that I am a retired attorney who, as long as I obey the rules, can resume practice if needed. The rules include helping non-lawyers understand their rights and duties under the law.
Now this is where my legal opinion starts. There is already law in the US prohibiting anyone, ANYONE, from “aiding, abetting, counseling or acting in furtherance” of a criminal act under Federal law. 18 United States Code Section 2. See, US v. Dawson, 576 F.2d 656, cert den, 439 U.S. 1127.
Further 18 United States Code Section 4 makes Misprision of a Federal Felony a completely separate and prosecutable crime, good for up to 3 years and $250,000 per offense. Misprision is having knowledge of a plan to commit a federal felony and doing the very least act to aid in concealing the crime. See, US v. Perlstein, 126 F.2d 789 (3rd Cir. 1942), cert den 439 U.S. 1127 (1942). See also, US v. Baez, 732 F.2d 780 (10th Cir. 1984).
Then there are a number of conspiracy statutes. For example only, and not a complete list: 18 USC Sections 241, 242, 371, 372, 1951 and 1963.
Now find a US Attorney who will enforce the law.
Terry Gain says
The Malaysian Government is just following up on Obama’s threat that “the future must not belong to those who slander (tell the truth about) the prophet of Islam”.
In the meantime no one is being monitored in any country for the Koranic slander that “Jesus faked his death on the cross” and ” at the end of the world Jesus will return to earth and break the crosses and send Christians to hell and Muslims to heaven”.
No Christians have been observed rioting and killing because of these slanders of Christ.
Frank Anderson says
T.G. I have what is probably a unique and certainly rare view of Jesus, which I consider sincerely and highly respectful. I think Jesus laughs at the insults. He considers the sources and gives them no value. I don’t think we need to waste our time on giving value to the valueless. The God of Life and Liberty knows and teaches Truth and Freedom. The god of slavery teaches death, lies and submission. Obviously to any capable of thought One is better.
Terry Gain says
Agreed. I think there is much value in comparing and contrasting Jesus and Muhammad. A group of Pakistani ex-Muslims issued a statement about 6 months ago as to why an unholy man like Muhammad cannot be a prophet.
elee says
I hope they are safe. And I hope nobody extradites them to face capital charges of apostasy.
Frank Anderson says
elee, you may have hit on an idea worth exploring: Instead of worrying about fighting against evil, how can we help good people escape to more favorable places? As one example consider the number of people who escaped Nazi occupied countries to join Allied armies and participate in freeing their countries from occupation.
Letting good people rot in territory occupied by evil, politely, tyrannical, governments is a waste of potentially beneficial resources for obtaining ultimate victory. If I have one lesson to learn from Nazi Germany it is how utterly wasteful they were with both resources and people. Another, to me, is that while internal resistance providing intelligence was highly valuable to ultimate victory, unlawful combat conducted by resistance forces led to little benefit and many deaths from reprisals.
CRUSADER says
Galatians 5 New International Version (NIV)
* Freedom in Christ *
5:01
” It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. ”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
somehistory says
Matthew 12:31 “And so I tell you, every manner of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.”
This is something that moslims do not even give thought to as they deny that Jesus is the Son of God, and they deny the Holy Spirit. Since they deny the Holy Spirit, they have no fear of sinning against it.
The lies and slander against Christ and His Holy Father in heaven will not be forgiven if no repentance is shown, and they don’t ask for forgiveness.
Anjuli Pandavar says
“Police have so far detained three people accused of insulting Prophet Muhammad on Facebook.”
—
I don’t know how often Muhammad checks his Facebook page, but detaining people is bit extreme, isn’t it? Couldn’t he just dislike such posts, or if it’s something really bad like saying he got little girls to play house with him, just unfriend such people?
Clearly, Imran Khan isn’t quite up to the job. The new top troll whose going to come after you is called MUJAHID!!! and *looks* the part. Even Muhammad is now going to watch what he says about himself. Poor guy. From now on I’m going to like all Muhammad’s posts, except the ones that Satan tells him to write.
Kuffar 'n Proud says
The truth will always stand up to criticism, no matter what threats are made or how much people are censored.
Islam can’t stand up to any form criticism, however slight and despite being constantly told that Islam “has all the answers,” the only answer we seem to hear is …….
…….“Death to those that insult the prophet or Islam.”
Which is no answer at all.
Carol the 1st says
Black Pigeon discusses how HONOR Cultures and DIGNITY Cultures are now adding a “new layer – in that Honour Culture’s quickness to take offense is now being merged with Dignity Culture’s use of THIRD parties to police and punish transgressions.” (6:12 to end):
PRIVILEGE, Victim & Oppressor Culture: EXPLAINED
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1tPLi2RTeo
Ashley says
OT:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-britain-teenager/british-government-condemned-after-islamic-state-teenagers-baby-dies-idUSKBN1QQ0BP
FYI says
Your profit stinks
moslims:He has insulted the prophet!..wait..did you say prophet or profit?
Exactly.Your prophet stinks
moslims ….?
Ya see?There is no profit in following your “prophet” is there?
elee says
Hey can we cut off foreign aid for governments that do this? How about governments that try to propagate sharia in our country?
somehistory says
“Rep. Ilhan Omar focus of anti-immigrant conspiracy theories shared and liked on social media by 2 Homeland Security investigators ” ABC News
*********************************************************************
They were on Linkedin and one posted a remark about her admission that she had taken a “terrorism” course. They posted questions regarding the vetting of her before she came into the country and before she was elected to Congress.
The “two federal special agents are under review” for what they said on their private accounts. According to the report, ICE “doesn’t have a policy” about what an individual agent can post on social media. But they are under investigation for possibly violating the “code of conduct.”
And the news report included the resolution in Congress that didn’t name her and didn’t censure her, but had a lot to say about the so-called ‘phobia’ all who oppose islam have toward the evil practices and teachings. And, the remarks the three moslims made after the resolution passed.
Will these special agents keep their jobs? Will heads roll in the near future for telling the truth about islam and these moslims in Congress, regarding their goals and their methods?
Transmaster says
I could setup a VPN, and point it at Malaysia and open up a Facebook account in Malaysia and from the other side of the planet I could start posting photo’s of succulent cuts of Allah meat. Prophets eating BLT’s, 2 Ply Quran paper, The prophet in a Tutu, complete ballet shoes doing the sugar plum fairy. each time I get banned I just open a new account. This could get really fun.
Frank Anderson says
PLEASE CONSULT A CURRENTLY LICENSED AND PRACTICING ATTORNEY IN YOUR JURISDICTION FOR ANY LEGAL ADVICE.
While it is certainly fun to imagine “payback” I can see where a prosecutor in the foreign country could argue that you left the protection of the US Constitution and broke the law there instead of availing yourself of the rights and protections of the Constitution here. A case fighting extradition would probably be a lot weaker than I would like. Free speech is not the law in Malaysia, the rest of the muslim world and most of what is left. Looking at the murder that has followed many truly minor acts of resistance I suggest more effective ways to fight.
The situation of resisting extradition is completely different when in one case a person is sought for acting perfectly legally under US law, and in the other illegally. Take a look at 18 United States Code Sections 1341 and 1343, which make ANY MAIL OR WIRE COMMUNICATION IN FURTHERANCE OF A FRAUD a crime under Federal law, meaning that extradition is possible. Harassing muslims and inciting all manner of violence could easily qualify as sufficient fraud to lose Constitutional protection.
puckster55pics says
And yet nothing is done when someone insults Christianity and The Lord Jesus Christ who truly is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. I am so tired of this whole bowing and scraping to Muslims.
Frank Anderson says
P, while we may differ in our reverence and understanding of Jesus, we both believe that He is not one who would want us to follow the example of muslims. We have better things to do with our lives and liberty.
I try to remember in my thinking Nietzsche’s proposition that in order to fight monsters one must become a monster. I think, for what it may be worth, Jesus fought tyranny of all forms by being as restrained in his fighting as possible while delivering his message of reform. Our victory will be accomplished without also being a source of shame and disgrace.
gravenimage says
Frank Anderson wrote:
I try to remember in my thinking Nietzsche’s proposition that in order to fight monsters one must become a monster.
………………….
Frank–with all respect–that is not exactly what Nietzsche said. Here is the quote:
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
I don’t think he is saying that in fighting monsters that you automatically become one yourself, but that one needs to be careful when facing evil. So ethically opposing evil is difficult, but *not* impossible.
Frank Anderson says
Most sincerely thank you for the correction. I hope while I missed the quote that I did pass the meaning. I do not think we need to follow the example of monsters in fighting them.
gravenimage says
Absolutely agree, Frank.
Hope you are well. 🙂
Frank Anderson says
Thank you. I am trying. One invention that I have been working on nearly 10 years looks like it is complete for the moment (until I think of another improvement). Most friends are weathering their storms of age and health, and I continue to search for answers. There is reason to hope and continue the work. With faith, we will win.
gravenimage says
Frank, I would love to hear about your invention, if you feel you can share that information here. You are a very talented person.
Frank Anderson says
I have a Bachelor’s degree in engineering; but like most things in my life somewhat non-standard. Instead of being “purely” mechanical, it straddles both mechanical and electrical. I have spent many years in various work areas of electric utilities and other industries. In 1972 I met a man who was brought to a plant to correct many problems that the designers ignored in taking the low bid for everything, He was about the same age then as I am now, and was really the only friend I had at the plant. (“Stud, every time I look at you I know we are 2 men short: You and Your replacement!:”) He taught me how to do something over and over again while watching it carefully to find where the machine, in that case a particle board mill, could be improved.
I have taken a machine that was designed to work with perfect components and made it work with imperfect components, correcting and improving dozens of problems, along the way reducing failures, cost and improving reliability. Actually I started with one machine and worked about 10 hard hours to make 800 pieces. Now I can play about 3 hours and make far better pieces with a big smile. Instead of one machine, I have two working off the same electrical controls that I designed and added. That way I start with a clean piece and each time the machine cycles, of course with a few exceptions, get a complete piece. Still and always wondering what next?
gravenimage says
Sounds interesting, Frank.
Frank Anderson says
I taught myself how to do what the machines do back in 1964. I am considered pretty good at it. A friend spent a lot of money to buy these machines, shop, lathe, milling machine and compressor, but really needed help. This has kept me occupied, challenged, entertained and in the very best of company for over 10 years. I wish more people could have the same kind of rewarding activity in their lives.
CRUSADER says
How would that be FRAUD?
Frank Anderson says
Crusader, the cases interpreting the statutes on mail and wire fraud look at the purpose of the communication to determine whether it violates the law. They write very specifically that the communication itself can be entirely true but made with a fraudulent purpose and be criminal. A communication intended to harass people or incite violence, if made by the steps described could, (not certainly would) be held illegal enough to lose the US Constitutional shield (by setting up an account appearing to be in a foreign country when the alleged subscriber is not).
An example that comes to mind is a “lulling letter” that endeavors to create a false sense of security with investors, by misleading conditions or situations. Engaging in conduct that is legal in the US almost certainly means protection from extradition. Engaging in conduct that is illegal in the US and is illegal in a foreign country means extradition is possible, if a treaty is in place. I have cases but do not have them available at the moment if you wish.
Frank Anderson says
Crusader, take a look at US v. Otto, 742 F.2d 104 (3rd Cir. 1984), cert den, 469 U.S. 1196. See also, US v. Snowden, 770 F.2d 393 (4th Cir. 1985), cert den, 474 U.S. 1011. Sections 1341 and 1343 prohibit the same conduct using almost identical language in mail and wire communications. I have no reason to believe that an internet communication is not included in their coverage.
Please consult a currently licensed attorney practicing in your jurisdiction for any legal advice.