Are you getting the new rules? When non-Muslims murder Muslims, it’s because of “Islamophobia.” And when Muslims murder non-Muslims, it’s because of “Islamophobia.” In all cases, the Infidels, not the Muslims, are to blame, and any and all criticism of Islam and even of jihad terror must be ruthlessly suppressed, so that there is no more “Islamophobia.” Then the jihad will end, and we will all march together into the glorious Sharia-compliant future.
Many UK MSM journalists won't know – since Geert Wilders spread Islamophobia across the Netherlands like a wildfire, Utrecht has been the centre of a number of PEGIDA riots and demonstrations against mosques and Muslim migration. #MuslimLivesMatter pic.twitter.com/HvYL8FDyd8
— Mo Ansar (@MoAnsar) March 18, 2019
(Thanks to the Geller Report)
CRUSADER says
Typical of Ignorance.
gravenimage says
This is not ignorance, CRUSADER, it is Taqiyya.
mortimer says
I believe, dear GI, that Mr. C. is referring to the Leftards who know nothing about Islam from direct knowledge of the PRIMARY SOURCE TEXTS (which they have not read).
The Leftards have a ‘narrative’ that Islam is benign with which they entice their naïve followers to accept open borders.
The Leftards need Muslims as allies with whom they can join in the destruction of free Western values.
gravenimage says
You may be right, Mortimer. If so, CRUSADER is quite right.
J D.S says
Journalism today has reverted to nothingness thin air writings. Research is a word they know not.
gravenimage says
J D.S, this is often true. But this is not ignorance of poor research skills on this part of this Muslim–this is lying to whitewash the savagery of his coreligionists.
mortimer says
So … let me get this straight … if we accuse Islam of being violent and brutal … then, young Muslims will get violent and brutal.
How much different is that from the schizophrenic who says ‘Stop talking, because the voices in my head are telling me to kill you’ ???
Westman says
Mo seems to be unaware that PEGIDA originated in GERMANY. It was not Wilders, it was Merkel’s unwise imigration decisions that generated PEGIDA.
Mo Ansar is either stupid or looking to use this terror attack to keep selling the lie that Islam’s ideology is peaceful while trying to play Muslims as the victim of Wilders.
It’s not working anymore, Mo. Even Rutte has changed his tune about unlimited immigration. The “brothers” have worn out their welcome. Throw all the darts you wish at Wilders, it won’t change the perception Europe is gaining by observation. What Islam claims it is has far less influence than what it does
CRUSADER says
Simple solution to all of this:
Infidels should cease living, or cease being Infidels.
Problem solved in a blink of an eye.
gravenimage says
This is how Muslims see it.
Dave says
One vital fact: As muslims are useless at just about everything, they need dhimmis to supply their needs. It is a parasitic existence.
We are a nation that does not work (Muslim scholar) Memri.tv
https://youtu.be/FKAnTraJS7E
Ole Pederson says
That’s exactly their reasoning for solving problems with drugs and gambling: these are forbidden in Islam, so they are no longer a problem.
Westman says
Reminds me of a former president of Iran saying, “In Iran we don’t have homosexuals”. Then the press pool couldn’t supress their laughter.
Renate says
Muslims need to be required to accept responsibility for themselves, their own thoughts, feeling, and actions just like the rest of us are. Anything else is lunacy.
Kilfincelt says
Absolutely agree! Jihadists are victimizers, not victims.
KWJ says
Right, and it’s sorely lacking, and as Robert well knows, they also engage in a denial of history that many westerners don’t learn so they have no balanced views.
thebigW says
How about we just kick them out of our society instead. That way we won’t have to “require” anything of them that they ain’t gonne comply with
peter says
Who is to bell the cat!
Renate says
I don’t think it would be that hard to bell the cat. All the Western countries have been catering to Muslims so far. Seriously lay down the law to them once and for all, and they will respect that. If they want Sharia, send them to Sharia nations. No ifs, ands, or buts.
gravenimage says
Agreed, Renate.
Renate says
I’m in favour of that solution, too. If they want Sharia, they can have it…SOMEWHERE ELSE.
Savvy Kafir says
Agreed, BigW. We’ll never convince Muslims of anything, or get them to change their ways. That’s why they need to go. All of them.
Lydia Church says
“When non-Muslims murder Muslims, it’s because of “Islamophobia.” And when Muslims murder non-Muslims, it’s because of “Islamophobia.” ”
Exactly.
And when muslims commit terrorism, the leaders fear of ‘backlash’.
When non muslims occasionally target muslims with terrorism as in New Zealand, no one worries about ‘backlash’ by protecting churches. But when muslims are at it again with terrorist attacks, the leadership again fears ‘backlash’ and sends security to mosques.
Well, terrorism by a muslim strikes again…
It could have been backlash for what happened in NZ, but the media won’t call it that. They won’t call it terrorism either most of the time when that’s what it is either way. It is just swept under the rug whenever possible. But when a non muslim hits a muslim location, you never hear the end of it. It is exploited to no end as it reverberates ‘around the world.’
The new media rules:
Real terrorism = an incident or event
Backlash = “Terrorism”
Hundreds of terror attacks by muslims to non muslims = sound of crickets
One non muslim attacks muslims = “stop the hate!” and endless victim cards and exploitation campaigns against ‘islamophobia’
Yup, the world just sank a few feet deeper into the agenda…
KWJ says
+1
Mike says
If anything causes so called Islamophobia is it Islamic terrorist attacks.
KWJ says
There’s a tendency to blame anyone but themselves. Anybody can put some blame others such as anti-white talk and European immigration (planned) gets the ire of white people who don’t want to go go extinct and the racism directed to whites. Clearly, non-Muslims can blame Muslims in Muslim countries for their discrimination against non-Muslims, destruction and damage of over 100 mosques in the last 20 years, and so on. When there are Muslims in Western countries and Muslim organizations such as the Muslim Brotherhood and other terrorist supporters and who wants Islamic law, Muslims don’t take responsibility for what they’ve done to ruin communities. Others call any Muslim a terrorist and such rude talk.
It is tragic that any innocent people die while going about their daily business. It is happening all over the world from Kenya to the Philippines to North America. What gets me with this New Zealand incident is that Americans tend to act outraged when it happens in a western style country when Africa, Iraq, Indonesia, the Philippines, India, Nigeria etc. collectively have daily attacks. Despite over 90% of attacks are by Muslims they seem to relish right-wingers doing attacks rather than the spreading of terrorist groups and their supporters residing in western countries.
I caught a blurb about some leftist nuts blaming Chelsea Clinton for things she said. Huh? She had talked about anti-Semitism. They’re off the rails.
Muslims blame “Islamophobia” yet when it comes to terrorists they don’t acknowledge their religion and the many Islamic schools that teach Muhammadan behavior in Saudi Arabia, Palestine, Pakistan schools, mosques in the west. TEACH. Wilders talks about a real problem that people need to be aware of or think of. It’s like if I talked about communism and someone attacked communists or Marxists…well, I’m not going to stop talking about dangerous and destructive ideologies, Islam being one of several. (Islam is a whole system, as clerics describe), a way of life, Allah’s laws aka sharia. Do I have communismphobia? I don’t say 5x a day in prayers to overcome un-believers nor do I say to kill them. (Unless in war.)
The media is bowing to their masters. Leftists are the biggest hypocrites. Muslims also blow up mosques, usually Sunnis blowing up Shi’ite mosques in Afghanistan, Iraq, usually. Sunnis and Shi’ites have been fighting for years in Iraq and Yemen a lot, but I guess those victims don’t matter like over 300 dead in Baltimore or Chicago in one year. I guess outrage is selective.
peter says
BBC and Aljazeera are the worst criminals in this regard.
abad says
+1
Georg says
What a sick bastard.
Bill says
WOW
Benedict says
This is an irresponsible journalist. It is the Koran that leads Muslims to commit murders and other crimes against non Muslims.
Indiana Tom says
The Koran would just be a dumb book if it were not for evil people praising and quoting the vile thoughts into actions of darkness.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqB8P_ZY_0Y
Alarmed Pig Farmer says
Could it be that Wilders is a secret Trump admirer?
Anjuli Pandavar says
When non-Muslims murder Muslims, it’s because of “Islamophobia.” And when Muslims murder non-Muslims, it’s because of “Islamophobia.”
—
When Muslims murder Muslims, it never happened.
James Lincoln says
Let me get this straight:
Geert Wilders speaks the truth about Islam, an evil ideology, and is against Muslim migration that is adversely changing Dutch culture and causing significant security problems.
And somehow he is blamed for Utrecht jihad massacre…
This would be laughable if it wasn’t so dead serious.
Frederick Revell says
Again we ser the difference, in Christchurch Christians and secularists show great sympathy with the Muslim community, in Utrecht Muslims point the finger at anyone other than tyemselves.
gravenimage says
+1
Wellington says
A la Orwell’s Animal Farm, all people are created equal but some, i.e., Muslims, are created more equal than others, i.e., all non-Muslims.
We have actually reached a point in Western history (N.B., idiotic, suicidal, self-flagellating pc/mc only exists in the West and nowhere else) whereby the followers of the most invidious and extensively lethal religion of all time are placed above all others respecting the worthiness of human life.
Madness. Extraordinary stupidity too. Inversion of the truth par excellence. Time for a beer and a BLT. Eff Islam.
CRUSADER says
Orwell is so apropos for this age….
CRUSADER says
So is a Samuel Adams beer
with a sandwich made with BACON, lentils and tempeh !!!
Wellington says
Most certainly, CRUSADER. Orwellianism is alive and thriving in our age which would greatly disturb Orwell were he still here. The only difference is that instead of a stupid, wretched, deadly, freedom-crushing secular ideology, i.e., Marxism, we have a stupid, wretched, deadly, freedom-crushing religious ideology making a mockery of true human rights.
Indiana Tom says
We actually have both and they are aligned with one another in their great assault on western civilization.
Terry Gain says
You were doing great until you used the word religion instead of ideology.
gravenimage says
Actually, Wellington *did* use the word ideology.
Terry Gain says
GI
Actually, I was referring to this.
” We have actually reached a point in Western history (N.B., idiotic, suicidal, self-flagellating pc/mc only exists in the West and nowhere else) whereby the followers of the most invidious and extensively lethal religion of all time are placed above all others respecting the worthiness of human life.”
Wellington is still not thinking strategically.
Wellington says
Thank you, gravenimage.
And to Terry I ask this: Let’s just suppose, per your take on matters and for argument’s sake, Islam is not a religion. Yes indeed, you have been correct here all along and many people like myself (and Robert Spencer too who has many, many times indicated that he thinks Islam is a religion) have just not been able, for whatever reason, to grasp what you have grasped so well, i.e., that Islam is not a religion.
And let’s also suppose that many elites in the West, in the political realm, academia and the media begin to speak of Islam as an evil religion, really effed-up, inimical to liberty, equality under the law, women’s rights, fine beer, wholesome pork products and the whole nine yards along these lines, but nonetheless a religion, do you not concede that this would be an enormous movement in the right direction?
Yes, unlike you, so many deficient people (like me) would still consider Islam a religion but an awful religion. Would this not serve to date as the best thing that could happen to liberty and other wonderful things which, unfortunately, has not happened so far? And should this happen, exactly how, and please detail this, treating Islam as a religion but a wicked one would not effectively end up with the same result as not treating Islam as a religion at all?
Your turn, Terry. Give it a shot.
gravenimage says
Terry, what *is* your strategy here? That if only the fools here at Jihad Watch magically came to believe that Islam is not a religion, how would you proceed?
Would you demand that dictionaries change their definition of religion so that it would–somehow, you don’t say how this would work–exclude Islam?
Would you prefer that those who bravely–and successfully–fought back against the spread of Islam for centuries not be cited, lest any of their views that Islam was an evil religion might come to light?
And if you were successful in the above–which seems unlikely–what then? Would you assume that those who appeased and whitewashed Islam for many years now would suddenly turn on it and expose its ugliness?
Most of those who are the greatest apologists for Islam are *not* those who consider every religion to be good. The biggest non-Muslim apologists for Islam tend to be those on the far left, who–as a rule–have little respect for religions such as Christianity and Judaism, so they would not likely be much swayed by Islam being (somehow) then designated as a non-religion.
I am genuinely interested in knowing what your strategies are here.
Georg says
Islam : religion
as
turd : chocolate
Indiana Tom says
Chocolate covered turd.
FYI says
“as believers..we want a world where our children can live in peace in harmony.That only happens if we learn about one another.and learn to love .not hate”
mo ansar.. tweet today
Ah.That sounds lovely.. but bearing false witness and dissembling is an islamic speciality and duty.
[taqqiya,tawriya,taysin,kitman,muruna,daurura}Why should such a sweet platitude be taken seriously?
We too want our children to live in peace free from the murderous evil of satan’s own religion ,islam ,and our women to live in safety free from molestation from the devout muslim perverts like the Rotherham animals.
Yes let’s “learn about one another and learn to love not hate” …
So then what about..?
The islamic Doctrine of HATE:al walaa wal barra?
k5:51 “take not the Jews and Christians for friends”;Love one another?
The koran preaches the CONTRARY!
Another muslim who doesn’t know{or chooses not to know} how EVIL his cult is:islam is the demonic religion of antiChrist.
islam:
a false god allah “the best of deceivers” k3:54{muslims never get that bit..}whose greatest enemy is MALIK AL AMLAK{sahih muslim vol 5 hadith #5611}a title given ONLY to Jesus Christ!{Revs 19 v 16}That makes islam the religion of antichrist and allah EVIL.
a false prophet,the Perfect Man Muhammed: a FAT,CROSS-DRESSING,MASS-MURDERING,BLACK SLAVE TRADING,TERRORIST DWARF*
a false “holy ” book full of theological,logical,and scientific errors which teaches CONTRARY to the Exodus 20 laws of God:pure evil!the koran PROMOTES sin against God…
Apparently the “journalist” is in a band too;did no one tell the muslim about allah’s condemnation of musical instruments?
And of course there cannot be a female vocalist in any muslim band{Reliance of the Traveller Umdat Al Salik r40.1} as ..
“On the day of resurrection allah will pour molten lead into the ears of whoever sits listening to a songstress”.
It must be difficult for a muslim to be in a band given allah’s condemnation of musical instruments and female singers:I’m sure the Taqqiya-meisters can find a way around it.
No sign of Solomonic wisdom amongst the muslims is there?If there was, they would LEAVE islam..
*{Abu Dawud 40:4731,Sahih Bukhari 2442,Abu Dawud 4390,sahih muslim 3901,Sahih Bukhari 4:52:220}
FYI says
Apparently his band is the Solomon Band and they perform …haha..”the Brotherhood of man”.
Is he having a laugh??Stop it now..
Surely that is not Solomon the… JEW?
Don’t they know what allah says about the Jews k2 v 65?
What “Brotherhood of man” is there in islam,man?What about the KUFFAR?
FYI says
At least there is no FEMALE singer but allah will be furious at muslims playing musical instruments…
Terrible torments and demonic tortures surely await those muslims who play music;allah hates musicians.
Dave says
Is there anything that Allah does not hate? Good song for this group; “Give (the religion of) Peace a Chance”
gravenimage says
Of course, Muslims consider Solomon to be a Muslim, just like the Jewish prophets–they just use the spelling “Suleiman”.
Dave says
It’s a bit like saying, I was a Freemason before it was invented.
Indiana Tom says
“When non-Muslims murder Muslims, it’s because of “Islamophobia.” And when Muslims murder non-Muslims, it’s because of “Islamophobia.” ”
Heads the Muslims win, tails the Christians lose, and the gullible liberal audience swallows it all.
somehistory says
The rats are in the garbage. A rat with power and authority in the rat community, decides that living only in the garbage is not according to their rat manual, and instructs a lot of his rats to invade the nearby farmhouse.
The rats, with their marching orders, invade the house.
The farmer and his wife can’t help but notice the smell and chewed packages of food, and call a local exterminator.
The exterminator examines the farmhouse and concludes that the problem is rats.
He recommends extermination. If not all of the rats are killed, those remaining may return to their garbage pile.
The farmer gives the go-ahead. The exterminator does his job. He lets the other farmers know what to expect and they take precautions.
Some rats die. Others are caught in traps. Many escape back to the garbage pile.
Major rat brings his remaining rats together and says: “Those people have rataphobia. We must combat that. We must invade again in larger numbers.”
One rat suggests a few bites of the farmer’s wife, on her legs, or if she’s sleeping, on her face, and the people might be afraid to call the exterminator again.
All of the rats cheer this idea.
moslims commit terrorist acts, killing, raping, destruction. When people discover this, warn other people and take precautions, the moslims then complain that “no body likes them” by yelling ‘phobia.’
paul 316 says
somehistory,
funny story, yet true. I give it two thumbs up. Good thing you aren’t a journalist writing for a conservative right news paper, you’d be fired by now and your coworkers would cower in fear of losing their jobs if they even mention your name. WAIT, that sounds like FOX NEWS. Fox news is weaker than wet toilet paper as far as I’m concerned, they have played right into the hands of islam playbook and they think they are so righteous. Fox is disgusting. Stop watching FOX. Hope to see and hear Pirro speaking the truth soon on a network that isn’t afraid of the truth. Maybe some advertisers on Fox will pull their ads due to Fox’s weak stand on the first amendment. Well……..I know that won’t happen, but I like to think that it could.
somehistory says
paul 316
Thank you very much. You’re right. I wouldn’t last. I’ve written in the past, and some things published, but learned early that I have to write what the publisher likes or it’s no go.
That is esp true when it comes to islam. But, it won’t last forever. Nothing in human life is constant except change.
gravenimage says
Wilders once said, “Trump has recaptured democracy”.
gravenimage says
Sorry, this was meant to appear above.
lebel says
He must have read the recent jihadwatch thread about the massacre in NZ. Same exact logic: yeah it’s bad BUT… of course those were the moderate messages, others dismissed the victims including 3 years olds as islamists while others justified it as revenge.
How does it feel?
gravenimage says
The claim that Geert Wilders causes Jihad terror by opposing Jihad terror is not just sickening, but also utterly irrational–which pretty much sums up lebel’s presence here, of course.
Can lebel point to any posts here saying that killing 3-year-olds is ‘just revenge’? I didn’t think so…
Wellington says
+1
Terry Gain says
Lebel
How does it feel to be an adherent of the most murderous ideology in history? Your co -religionists have murdered over a million Christians in the last 15 years. Why do you have no shame?
pumbar says
“Same exact logic: yeah it’s bad BUT…” Something you yourself do in the rest of your post.
As for victim ages, I don’t recall you being on here, frantically handwringing, when the kids at Beslan school were massacred by mohammedans?
Kay says
Here lebel, if you want to talk about feelings, see a couple of headlines below.
https://www.thisdaylive.com/index.php/2019/03/13/herdsmen-kill-85-people-in-kaduna-communities/
2019.03.17 (DRC)
Three woman and a 9-year-old child are massacred by ADF Islamists.
2019.03.17 (Israel)
A rabbi is among two Israelis shot to death by a Palestinian terrorist…
2019.03.16 (India)
A female police officer is gunned down outside her home by Muslim terrorists.
2019.03.15 (Mozambique)
Thriteen villagers are hacked to death by Sharia proponents.
How does it feel?
It feels terrible. These are grievous wrongs. The increase in suffering and pain wounds all our humanity. These should never happen.
Do you agree?
Wellington says
Well, lebel, why do you never address the more than 34,000 Islamic terrorist attacks worldwide just since 9/11 (never mind the some 270 million people killed in the name of Islam before that date)?
You are so pathetic, lebel, respecting what you think constitutes an argument. This is a good thing because in your own small way you help contribute to the realization that Islam takes, takes, takes, and never gives. Keep up the good work by your straw man arguments, to quoque reasoning, et al.
You fool no one lebel but those who are fools—or worse.
gravenimage says
Muslim “journalist” in UK blames Geert Wilders for Utrecht jihad massacre
………………..
Just repulsive.
But not surprising–Mo Ansar is a nasty piece of work.
He has a long history of using Jihad terror attacks to slam the “far right”–i.e., anyone who opposes Jihad terror attacks:
“Terror in London — The Westminster Attack”
https://medium.com/@moansar/terror-in-london-the-westminster-attack-10f917ac06a3
He did the same with the Berlin Jihad terror attacks.
And here’s Mo Ansar outrageously lying to Robert Spencer about the “Prophet” being for women’s rights:
https://twitter.com/jihadwatchRS/status/589075404813639680
Terry Gain says
The sick and supremacist ideology of Islam does not require that Muslims ever accept responsibility for their atrocities. They are always the victims even when they are the attackers.
gravenimage says
Grimly true, Terry.
gravenimage says
Here is the *actual* perpetrator of this Jihad terror attack:
“Utrecht jihad murderer captured, had been arrested before for suspected links to the Islamic State, but was released”
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2019/03/utrecht-jihad-murderer-captured-had-been-arrested-before-for-suspected-links-to-the-islamic-state-but-was-released
Terry Gain says
1. ” And to Terry I ask this: Let’s just suppose, per your take on matters and for argument’s sake, Islam is not a religion. Yes indeed, you have been correct here all along and many people like myself (and Robert Spencer too who has many, many times indicated that he thinks Islam is a religion) have just not been able, for whatever reason, to grasp what you have grasped so well, i.e., that Islam is not a religion.
2. And let’s also suppose that many elites in the West, in the political realm, academia and the media begin to speak of Islam as an evil religion, really effed-up, inimical to liberty, equality under the law, women’s rights, fine beer, wholesome pork products and the whole nine yards along these lines, but nonetheless a religion, do you not concede that this would be an enormous movement in the right direction?
3. Yes, unlike you, so many deficient people (like me) would still consider Islam a religion but an awful religion. Would this not serve to date as the best thing that could happen to liberty and other wonderful things which, unfortunately, has not happened so far? And should this happen, exactly how, and please detail this, treating Islam as a religion but a wicked one would not effectively end up with the same result as not treating Islam as a religion at all?
Your turn, Terry. Give it a shot.”
…………….
Wellington
To use your unfortunate expression, what you don’t get is, inter alia, the following:
1. Robert Spencer already has too much on his plate and the adverse publicity he would receive were he to take such a position would be overwhelming. He is being very wise.
2. What you describe will never happen so long as Islam is considered a religion. Considering Islam as an ideology rather than a religion is a condition precedent to Islam receiving the scrutiny and criticism it needs if we’re are to be successful in defending against it.
3. I would never consider or describe you as deficient. I respect you. You have the perspective of a law professor. I have the perspective of a litigation lawyer who worked in the legal trenches for 41 years. I am also of the working class and spent most of my leisure time in hockey dressing rooms. I may have a better understanding of how the average Joe thinks.
Wellington says
Refuting, Terry, your points, one by one:
First, so, you really doubt that Spencer, contra as he has averred many times, truly thinks Islam is actually not a religion? What is your proof for this? I say you have none.
Second, what the hell do you mean that what I describe will never happen “so long as Islam is considered a religion?” I and so many others, including Robert Spencer, have acknowledged that Islam is a religion but is full of crap that makes it a very “problematical” religion. Why can’t a religion be full of shit but still a religion and we go from there?
Third, if a religion would be almost universally acknowledged a religion but an evil religion, per my query to you from an earlier post, wouldn’t this result in the same essential outcome respecting that religion, the way it is treated, and respecting the preservation of freedom?
Fourth, and again I ask this, how many academics, politicians, media types, et al. have you lined up respecting Islam not being a religion at all, who are on your side? You know, you never name anyone. Telling. Damning. You continue to function in an intellectual and legal vacuum and remain insouciantly ignorant of this.
Fifth, and back once again to my main point (as I have already listed in point 3), and I have tried to argue with you ad nauseam, if only Islam were almost universally described as an evil religion, as opposed to not being a religion at all, what effective difference would this make?
Terry Gain says
Wellington
Clearly what you don’t get is that Islam will never receive the scrutiny and criticism needed so long as it is regarded as a religion rather than a political ideology.
Wellington says
Again, Terry, you err. Islam is both a religion AND a totalitarian political ideology. You can have both, you know.
BTW, you haven’t bothered to list all those of prominence and influence who agree with you that Islam is not a religion. Must be so difficult when everyone in a parade is out of step except for you.
gravenimage says
Dear Terry, you wrote, in reply to Wellington:
1. Robert Spencer already has too much on his plate and the adverse publicity he would receive were he to take such a position would be overwhelming. He is being very wise.
……………………….
Robert Spencer *does* have a lot on his plate. But he already receives a lot of adverse publicity, but is still devoted to telling the truth. With all respect, I think that if he believed, as you do, that the only way to oppose the threat of Islam was to somehow have it declared a non-religion that he would *certainly* say so.
There is no basis that I can see for supposing that Robert Spencer actually agrees that Islam is a non-religion.
More:
2. What you describe will never happen so long as Islam is considered a religion. Considering Islam as an ideology rather than a religion is a condition precedent to Islam receiving the scrutiny and criticism it needs if we’re are to be successful in defending against it.
……………………….
As I have noted many times, we actually defended quite ably against Islam until the last half century or so.
Can you cite any case where a creed was declared a non-religion, following which it was universally opposed?
If not, then you can think that this might be a good approach, but really have no basis to be certain that it is the only possible one, as you constantly state.
More:
3. I would never consider or describe you as deficient. I respect you. You have the perspective of a law professor. I have the perspective of a litigation lawyer who worked in the legal trenches for 41 years. I am also of the working class and spent most of my leisure time in hockey dressing rooms. I may have a better understanding of how the average Joe thinks.
……………………….
I know you were addressing Wellington, Terry, but it may be of interest that my father is working class and that I grew up in the underclass myself. One may argue that working class people are more apt to cast a jaundiced eye on Islam than is the ‘intelligentsia’–but few working class people would claim that Islam is not a religion that I have seen.
I had not realized that you were yourself a lawyer–perhaps you can say how Islam can be legally declared a non-religion. Is there any precedent for this? Not that I know of, but I am not in the legal field, and certainly bow to your legal knowledge–and that of Wellington, as well.
Ren says
Criticism is now equivalent to incitement for the Far Left and the muslims.
tgusa says
Any minute now we will see a parade of western pols coming out in support of Geert and shouting, we will not yield to intolerance! Any minute now…
gravenimage says
If only…
David Munson says
Moslems always play the blame game instead of looking within.
Gart says
When you quote Mo Ansar to argue your position it’s reasonable to question whether you know what you’re talking about. He’s a well known Walter Mitty. Oh Robert dude, c’mon.
gravenimage says
Gart, Robert Spencer was *not* citing the mendacious Mo Ansar to argue his position–just the opposite. Please reread the story.
peter says
Anything bad happens to Muslims blame Trump or Wilder who have the spine to speak the truth . Left wing liberal media including BBC and pro Jihad Aljazeera are despicable
Michael says
There should be an offence when media lie about the Truth of Islamic attacks latest claim is that White supremacists commit most terrorist attacks .Media executives who let this lie go to air should be gaoled for treason fraud ect it should not be legal for the media to twist stories.All genuine supremacist organisations should be banned and shut down.This is the truth about terrorism figures taken from official sources Information on more than 180,000 Terrorist Attacks
The Global Terrorism Database (GTD) is an open-source database including information on terrorist events around the world from 1970 through 2017 (with annual updates planned for the future). Unlike many other event databases, the GTD includes systematic data on domestic as well as international terrorist incidents that have occurred during this time period and now includes more than 180,000 cases .
https://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/
Terry Gain says
Terry, what *is* your strategy here? That if only the fools here at Jihad Watch magically came to believe that Islam is not a religion, how would you proceed?
Would you demand that dictionaries change their definition of religion so that it would–somehow, you don’t say how this would work–exclude Islam?
Would you prefer that those who bravely–and successfully–fought back against the spread of Islam for centuries not be cited, lest any of their views that Islam was an evil religion might come to light?
And if you were successful in the above–which seems unlikely–what then? Would you assume that those who appeased and whitewashed Islam for many years now would suddenly turn on it and expose its ugliness?
Most of those who are the greatest apologists for Islam are *not* those who consider every religion to be good. The biggest non-Muslim apologists for Islam tend to be those on the far left, who–as a rule–have little respect for religions such as Christianity and Judaism, so they would not likely be much swayed by Islam being (somehow) then designated as a non-religion.
I am genuinely interested in knowing what your strategies are here.
………
GI
I have never referred to the Non-Muslims here at JW as fools, so please show some respect for me. And yourself. If Islam were merely a religion, we wouldn’t be having this disagreement. Indeed JW wouldn’t exist.
Obviously it would be pointless to demand that Dictionaries be rewritten. Once it is accepted that Islam is a political ideology rather than a religion, dictionaries will reflect the reality.
We will never turn those who defend Islam. But we don’t have to. We need only convince the vast majority who have not considered the issue, or are silent and looking for leadership.
My strategy is that we refer to Islam for what it is. A totalitarian political ideology of conquest. If we refer to Islam as it is, rather than as it pretends to be the truth may eventually be accepted by the majority of Americans.
The ban on further immigration will then be accepted as justified and necessary.
Wellington says
Your approach, Terry, is too simplistic. Yes, dealing with Islam is deuce difficult, but by simply not considering it a religion (and ONCE AGAIN I would ask you whom of influence in politics, the law, the media and academia you have aligned on your side—you never answer this and shame on you for not doing so) it would still leave a protected belief system under the law. What, per the First Amendment, if Islam is no longer considered a religion (which ain’t gonna’ happen) then what? It would still be a protected belief system just as Nazism and Marxism are.
It’s the iniquity, Terry, which is key, not the status. Simply stunning you don’t get this.
Terry Gain says
Oh please Wellington, grow up. Make your point without resorting to a childish taunt.
Wellington says
I grew up long ago, Terry, didn’t like it and have reverted. Better this way.
gravenimage says
What in Wellington’s post was childish?
gravenimage says
Terry Gain wrote:
Terry, what *is* your strategy here? That if only the fools here at Jihad Watch magically came to believe that Islam is not a religion, how would you proceed?
Would you demand that dictionaries change their definition of religion so that it would–somehow, you don’t say how this would work–exclude Islam?
Would you prefer that those who bravely–and successfully–fought back against the spread of Islam for centuries not be cited, lest any of their views that Islam was an evil religion might come to light?
And if you were successful in the above–which seems unlikely–what then? Would you assume that those who appeased and whitewashed Islam for many years now would suddenly turn on it and expose its ugliness?
Most of those who are the greatest apologists for Islam are *not* those who consider every religion to be good. The biggest non-Muslim apologists for Islam tend to be those on the far left, who–as a rule–have little respect for religions such as Christianity and Judaism, so they would not likely be much swayed by Islam being (somehow) then designated as a non-religion.
I am genuinely interested in knowing what your strategies are here.
………
GI
I have never referred to the Non-Muslims here at JW as fools, so please show some respect for me. And yourself.
………………………..
Fair enough–I have never specifically seen you refer to those who don’t adhere to your “Islam is not a religion” hobby horse as fools–it certainly seems implied, though.
And I actually do have a great deal of respect for you, Terry–I just think that this about Islam not being a religion is not in the least a fruitful approach to opposing the threat of Islam.
And thank you for your concern over my levels of self-respect.
More:
If Islam were merely a religion, we wouldn’t be having this disagreement. Indeed JW wouldn’t exist.
………………………..
I’m afraid I don’t agree that Jihad would go away and that Islam would cease to be a threat if only the Anti-Jihadists at Jihad Watch unilaterally decided that Islam was not a religion.
Muslims–especially Jihadists–have seldom cared what Infidels thought.
More:
Obviously it would be pointless to demand that Dictionaries be rewritten. Once it is accepted that Islam is a political ideology rather than a religion, dictionaries will reflect the reality.
………………………..
OK…
It might be difficult to get Westerners to universally declare Islam to be a non-religion when by all definitions it very much is one, though.
More:
We will never turn those who defend Islam. But we don’t have to. We need only convince the vast majority who have not considered the issue, or are silent and looking for leadership.
………………………..
So you are hoping that no one notice that virtually all of those who opposed Islam considered it a religion, and that this in no way prevented them from standing against Islam?
More:
My strategy is that we refer to Islam for what it is. A totalitarian political ideology of conquest. If we refer to Islam as it is, rather than as it pretends to be the truth may eventually be accepted by the majority of Americans.
………………………..
Islam is both a totalitarian political ideology *and* a religion.
Your constant claims that if a creed is considered a religion that it must be true is simply not the case.
As I have noted umpteen times, the worship of Baal and the faith of the Aztecs–both hideous faiths that involved human sacrifice–were both religions. That does not mean that anyone today considers them either true or good.
More:
The ban on further immigration will then be accepted as justified and necessary.
………………………..
I don’t think that getting Islam somehow decertified as a religion–however that would world–would automatically lead everyone to understand that Islam is a threat to us.
Demsci says
Very interesting debate I find, between Wellington and Terry Gain, and then you GI.
I vote for Wellington and GI but see a lot of merit in Terry’s strategy.
In my view the discussion pertained, among other issues perhaps, to
A. Perception of Islam. B. Totalitarian threat and how to counter that.
I agree that Islam is a totalitarian threat and that those who love the opposite of totalitarianism, democracy and its essential tenets and values, like the suprême role of rule of law, need a good strategy.
In this context I like to present the case that a man like our Dutch PM, Mark Rutte, who is as soft as they get on Islam, nevertheless would fight to the death, so to speak, to preserve the democratic and capitalist free market system. His whole party, the VVD, the biggest in Holland to date, is predicated on that pre misse.
But the VVD and he are ever since 9/11 confronted with anti-Islam politicians like Pim Fortuyn and Geert Wilders and their considerable following. But still he persists in whitewashing Islam etc. Still he has this “peaceful” perception of Islam.
My point would be; let us for argument s sake focus on the ACTUAL perception of Islam. Now: even most liberals cannot and will not deny the existence of an agressive thread in Islam. see ISIS, see the Allahu Akbar attacks, see Boko Haram etc.
But the leftists, media, academie and many others say: ‘THE ISLAM DOES NOT EXIST”.
I think they are wrong mind you,
But it IS true enough that there IS NO definite powerful reigning authority inside Islam.
And if that perception would be true then what does it, and those of all those moderate Muslims, and those of all those leftist intellectuals, say about that which is the source of all these perceptions; the combination of the Most Important Guiding Texts and the interpretation of that, whether honest, igorant or deceptive?? What does it say???
That judging by the response-interpretation of Islam, under both the 1,6 billion Muslims and the other humans who know and judge Islam and who know the interpretation of Muslims,
That Islam simply is very ambiguous, contradictive, obsolete (because immutable), incomplete etc. David Wood did a video in which he mocked Muslims that they in practice really indicated that Allah was a very poor communicator.
My strategy is to push, as only one of our strategies, complementing yours, that perception of Islam; UNCLEAR, confused, vague, contradictive, obsolete, incomplete to the point of being really stupid. As Robert, David and Apostate Prophet weekly show in their articles and video’s.
Demsci says
As I see it, respect for Muslims, of whose life Islam is only one aspect. And contempt for Islam. Jay Smith is doing a very interesting and hopefully successful series about the historical flaws of Islam, concentrating on Muhammad and Quran. He says that Christianity was “decimated” by such historic scrutiny and now it is the turn of Islam.
As I experienced it; up until now the leftist position seemed to be that Islam was rather “unknown”, “harmless”, “hijacked by extremists”. Many people, even on the right, certainly all around me, keep this position, at least outwardly.
It is the theme; “Islam, being clear and comprehensive, is basically good or neutral.
If I may, many here have this theme: “Islam, being clear and comprehensive, is basically bad, totalitarian etc.
But leftist intellectuals, journalists, all sorts of intelligent people, can not, after scrutiny, maintain the Islam is good/ neutral theme.. At the very least there is both “good and bad” in Islam.
And hence the approach of Apostate Prophet; show that this so-called message of Allah, is NOT from Allah, but from fallible humans. No, not harmless. But simply UNCLEAR as hell. Pathetically so.
We want to nudge Muslims In Name Only and intellectual Leftists and ordinary citizens away from adhering to and supporting Islam, when this is such a pathetic unclear drivel. Don’t we?
Demsci says
We are sick and tired of the term “Islamophobia” aren’t we? It’s opposite seems to be “Islamophilia”.
But if we think of the analogy with Iconoclasm and Iconophilia, which played in 8th and 9th century Byzantium and again during the reformation;
Then we may consider the term “Islamoclasm”. But only in a peaceful sense of course.
gravenimage says
Interesting posts, Demsci.
somehistory says
Georg
islam is both.They worship a fake ‘god’ but they also worship a human…at least a slime in human form they believe wrote a filthy book. They want to establish his lawless rules and make everyone abide by them.
Most religions just have a relative authority over those who accept the beliefs. A political ideology that people may have causes those ones to establish a system of rules or laws to govern the society…whether or not those people also have a religion. The politicians who establish the rules or laws then expect all to obey or be punished by the State. They don’t punish according to what the ‘god’ or God of any of their political subjects believe, but by whatever they have agreed upon. The laws may have some foundation in one or more religious ideas.
islam tries to both…to have a worship of their ‘god’ and to force all of the citizens to believe the same way…whether they agree or not, or have another belief system or not. Rather than a group of men and women getting together and writing laws and rules they want citizens to obey, they use the filthy book from 1400 years ago…which are really unlawful evil.
Death for leaving, death for adultery, death for being a victim of rape, death for not wearing the clothing they demand, amputation for theft, laws on bathroom habits, laws on eating, what and when one can eat…death for just about any infraction…or being beaten until one may wish to be dead.
It combines the religious aspect of whom they worship with the unlawful rules the mass murderer, raper of children made up because of the things he wished to do and get away with.
gravenimage says
Fine post, Somehistory.
Georg says
Right. An Islamic state, one might call it. I’ll take Jeffersonian democracy.
gravenimage says
Hear, hear, Georg!
na says
Another imam said that terrorist is not related to Islam(ISIS).he is the by product of climate change. If temperature is high Turks have problem with brain chemicals. Imam blames trump for climate change deal.
gravenimage says
Yes–here’s Time Magazine making that ludicrous claim in 2015:
“Why Climate Change and Terrorism Are Connected”
http://time.com/4113801/climate-change-terrorism/
No explanation why Muslims have been waging Jihad for 1400 years–including during the “little ice age”.
Georg says
Lol… wow. Underemployed, climate change, someone said something I didn’t like, etc., etc. Everything but the obvious.
gravenimage says
Yes–just ludicrous, Georg.
somehistory says
thank you very much, g.
gravenimage says
🙂
Tim says
Quran and Mohammed and Islam is the reason for the all the problem in this world. If some one reads it properly.
dan christensen says
The MSM segment is seriously attempting to make the terrorist attack of the Utrecht terrorist look like another mental case attack. It looks really bad for the Elite that the Turk is revenging the Christchurch incident. It might ligth the fire for the next religious war between islam and Christianity. The Turk is the Elite’s invited guest.
Everywhere you see the left extremist MSM establishment suggest mental isssues in the perp – not religious fanaticism in another barbarian from the Middle east. The MSM stinks of dirty lies and Fake News.
Trump was right.
So the next step for the Elite could be to bribe the captured Turk to admit insanity in court – by promising him a reduced sentence and a handsome pension after serving time.
Hurra for Jihadwatch and all alternative sites – there you find the truth.
dan christensen says
As can be seen from this excerpt from CNN today :
“In failing to specifically condemn anti-Muslim terrorism in New Zealand, Trump demonstrated once again that he’s not up to the job. White nationalist sentiment — and the fevered online forums that inform it — is a problem around the world and in the United States. In fact, according to the Anti-Defamation League’s Center on Extremism, between 2008-2017, the majority of killings caused by extremists have been committed by those with white-nationalist and far-right ideologies.”
This is pure Hate speech, Lies, Rumours and Loose talk.
Why do MSM see the speck in brother Trump’s eye but fail to notice the beam in MSM’s own ?
MSM flagship, the troubled channel CNN, should really change name to “Contrived Nit-picking Noise”
ErlWilliam says
A very interesting comment wow . for example if a young school girl gets accosted by a Pakistani rape gang in London and is facing screams in fear of what she is facing …. ” that is islamaphobia “hence her killing follows and she is to blame