France flagged “more than 78,000 people” as jihadist security threats in 2017; three churches a day are attacked there; anti-Semitism is so prevalent (and violent) in France that it prompted the President of the Confederation of Jews in France to conclude that “in a few decades, there will be no Jews in France.”
But none of these facts have troubled globalist Emanuel Macron (and company), whose focus is on making everyone feel welcome in France, no matter what. Never mind those who choose not to integrate. This can be partially explained due to the fact that Macron does not believe that there is anything substantial to integrate into. He once declared that there is “no such thing” as a true Frenchman or true Dane. So it follows that Macron has a few ideas of his own about the rebuilding of the Notre Dame cathedral that would reflect his undying commitment to “diversity,” even if they are callous toward Christians and those who respect France’s heritage. Macron does not believe that the rebuilding of the Notre Dame should be intended to restore the glory of the ancient Gothic cathedral (with the painstaking labor that went into it); instead, Macron wants it to be recreated to be “consistent with our modern, diverse nation.”
Now what might that mean? Here’s an indicator: an architect has proposed that the new structure include a minaret. A minaret is a type of tower built into mosques as a visual focal point and used for the Islamic call to prayer. The architect sees fit to “memorialize Algerians who protested the French government in the 1960s” since “these victims of the state could be memorialized by replacing the spire with – why not? – a graceful minaret.” Given the obscene insensitivity displayed by Macron and others, it would come as no surprise if indeed a minaret were installed at Notre Dame, as a declaration of victory over France’s history and democracy.
Macron undoubtedly knows that Islamic countries — among others — value their own history and culture, but he has no such respect for French culture, and so it would follow that he would believe that there is no culture in France to protect. The burning down of Notre Dame was symbolic of the steady burn of French culture, as the country’s globalist leaders continue to bow to everything multiculturalism has to offer.
“Macron says Notre Dame should be rebuilt consistent with the modern, diverse France – and architects suggest a glass roof, steel spire and minaret,” Voice of Europe, April 23, 2019:
Macron’s initial promise to restore the magnificent cathedral to its former glory has been shoved aside. Now he says it will be rebuilt “consistent with our modern, diverse nation”, and at the same time the French Government has announced an international competition to redesign the Notre Dame spire.
After the announcement designers haven’t missed the opportunity to respond with their ideas, proposing that it should not be faithfully restored, but rebuilt with “contemporary” features such as a glass roof, steel spire, or even a minaret.
The Telegraph published an article claiming it would be a “travesty” to restore Notre Dame, while Rolling Stone quoted a Harvard architecture historian as saying that the burning of a building “so overburdened with meaning… feels like an act of liberation.”
Lord Norman Foster, arguably Britain’s most famous modern architect, has unveiled a design topping the ancient cathedral with a glass and steel canopy with a featureless glass and steel spire, which he describes as “a work of art about light” which would be “contemporary and very spiritual and capture the confident spirit of the time”.
Ian Ritchie, a modern architect most famous for the so-called Spire of Dublin – a metal spike erected in the Irish capital – is mulling a proposal along similar lines, which he describes as “a refracting, super-slender reflecting crystal to heaven” or a “beautiful contemporary tracery of glass crystals and stainless steel” – i.e. a featureless glass and steel spire.
Perhaps most controversial is a proposal in Domus, the architecture magazine, by Tom Wilkinson, for the fallen spire to be replaced with an Islamic minaret….
Terry Gain says
This will turn out to be an even bigger success than 9/11.
tavern knight says
Sounds like you re wanting Islam to supplant all other religious beliefs in France…
Or you’re a troll…
Wellington says
Terry Gain is no troll, tavern knight, not does Terry even remotely want Islam “to supplant all other religious beliefs in France…,” I assure you. You missed Terry’s sarcasm big time.
Reconsider, since Terry Gain despises Islam, as I do, and if you had read so many of Terry’s posts over the years you would know this too.
Terry Gain says
Thanks Wellington. I couldn’t have said it better myself. ( And that’s high praise).
christianblood says
Notre Dam was already a secular museum and liberal secularism and islamic fascism are the two sides of the same satanic coin! To hell with both of them! I hate them both!
Wellington says
Well, christianblood, I am no fan of “liberal secularism,” but liberal secularism (nor Western conservatism of which I count myself a member) does not want to kill gays, but the Islamic world, including your precious Hezbollah (per your own words, “God bless Hezbollah”) and its chief supporter, the Iranian regime, does.
What say you about this? No dodging, christianblood.
And I notice that you have been using the adjective “satanic” of late rather regularly. Do you not find the Iranian theocratic regime which, among so many other wrongs, wants to punish women for merely not wearing an hijab, or, even worse, severely punish a female Iranian attorney with lashing and prison time for defending such women, satanic?
No dodging, christinblood, which includes no posting videos or links. Sick of that. Just argue my challenge to you in your own words for all to read here at JW. Give it a shot.
christianblood says
Wellingon
Hezbollah is a Shiite Resistance militia protecting Shiites and Christians in Lebanon and Syria from the allies of evil which are America, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Nato, Al-Qaeda and ISIS and for that I have a high respect for Hezbollah! If Hezbollah was not there in Lebanon and Syria, Lebanon and Syria would be over run by America and its evil allies including ISIS, Al-Qaeda and countless other jihadists supported by Israel and Lebanon would be another Yemen and millions of Christians and other minorities would be lying dead! NOW, WHY DO YOU WANT THAT GENOCIDE TO HAPPEN TO CHRISTIANS AND THOSE OTHER PEACEFUL MINORITIES LIKE THE DRUZE, ALAWITES, SHIITES AND YAZIDIS IN LEBANON AND SYRIA, WELLINGTON???
DON’T YOU KNOW THAT WITHOUT HEZBOLLAH’S PRESENCE LEBANON AND SYRIA WOULD BE OVER RUN BY SUNNI/WAHABBI/SALAFI GENOCIDAL TERRORISTS SUPPORTED BY AMERICA, SAUDI ARABIA AND ISRAEL??? WHERE IS YOUR HUMANITY WELLINGTON?
WHY DO YOU WANT THOSE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE TO DIE IN THE HANDS OF THE US, ISRAELI AND SAUDI-BACKED JIHADISTS?
Please watch the video below as thousands of Shiites and Christians
gather to honor Hezbollah for the protection it gives to those communities! go mark 4:00 of the song and Note there are NO woman wearing hijabs or burqas in the crowd and ask your self why!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdZgkGI5h0A
christianblood says
Wellington
Breaking News from the US allied Saudi Arabia:
Dozens of Saudi citizens most them from the Shiite minority were executed in Saudi Arabia by public beheading this week and some were even crucified publicly! Please watch the telling piece below by Murad Gazdiev:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIrmeD9g_FU
Wellington says
Well, christianblood, first of all you provided more links which I asked you not to. Second, you dodged answering my query to you about Iran and Hezbollah only too eager to kill gays or punish women who don’t wear the hijab. Third, you risibly go on and on about America and Israel supporting ISIS and al-Qaeda even though America and Israel have relentlessly gone after ISIS and al-Qaeda. As examples, Osama bin Laden was killed by Americans and ISIS since Trump has become President has had its territory that it controls reduced by around 98%.
You’re good for laughs, christainblood. I’ll give you this.
James Lincoln says
+1
christianblood says
Wellington
Aswer me why do you want Lebanon overrun by ISIS and Al-Qaeda and countless other US, Saudi and Israeli-backed jihadists?
Why is that you don’t care the mass-murder those jihadists will commit against Christians, Shiites, Alawites, Druze and Yazidis?
You talk about ‘gays’ and ‘hijabs’ I talk about mass-murder and genocide
against whole minority communities! Big difference!
Why are focusing on triviality and propaganda than the reality carnage, extermination and mass-slaughter that will happen in Lebanon and Syria if Hezbollah disappears from the scene?
Wellington says
Christianblood: I don’t want Lebanon or any polity overrun by ISIS and al-Qaeda. Got this?
Now, just because the US and Israel oppose Assad, Hezbollah and the Iranian regime, all three of these being despicable, DOES NOT MEAN that the US and Israel support al-Qaeda and ISIS simply because they also oppose this unholy trinity. This is a ludicrous assertion by you. As I have written before many times, the US has gone after al-Qaeda, even killing its leader, Osama bin Laden, and has devastated ISIS and reduced the territory it controls by some 98-99%. How does this add up to supporting ISIS and al-Qaeda?
So, I have yet again addressed your ridiculously false charge that America and Israel support ISIS and al-Qeada. It is time for you to address the killing of gays in Iran and the oppression of women in Iran for merely not wearing an hijab or daring to wear make-up. Of course, you will dodge this again, probably post another highly tendentious, boring video, and accuse America and Israel yet one more time of supporting ISIS and al-Qaeda. You live in a very little world, christianblood and it is obvious to all of sense and knowledge.
gravenimage says
More from the increasingly appalling christianblood:
Notre Dam was already a secular museum and liberal secularism and islamic fascism are the two sides of the same satanic coin! To hell with both of them! I hate them both!
………………………
Ever since the fire at Notre Dame, christianblood has sneered at those who love the church, calling it “Notre Dam” and saying it is a “secular museum”–ignoring the fact that regular masses are held there. But then, christianblood has said many times before that anyone who is not Orthodox is not a ‘real’ Christian.
More, in reply to Wellington:
Wellingon
Hezbollah is a Shiite Resistance militia protecting Shiites and Christians in Lebanon and Syria from the allies of evil which are America, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Nato, Al-Qaeda and ISIS and for that I have a high respect for Hezbollah!…
………………………
christianblood has made this grotesque claim before–that Hezb’allah’s Jihad against Israel is somehow actually a fight against the Jihad against Christians by the Jews.
Never mind that this makes no sense, and that Israel is the *only* place in the Middle East where Christians live in freedom.
More:
DON’T YOU KNOW THAT WITHOUT HEZBOLLAH’S PRESENCE LEBANON AND SYRIA WOULD BE OVER RUN BY SUNNI/WAHABBI/SALAFI GENOCIDAL TERRORISTS SUPPORTED BY AMERICA, SAUDI ARABIA AND ISRAEL??? WHERE IS YOUR HUMANITY WELLINGTON?
WHY DO YOU WANT THOSE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE TO DIE IN THE HANDS OF THE US, ISRAELI AND SAUDI-BACKED JIHADISTS?
………………………
Anyone who reads Anti-Jihadist Brigitte Gabriel’s books knows what Lebanon was *really* like when overrun by Muslims in the early 1970s–no, Muslims did *not* invade and overrun Lebanon in order to save Christians from the Jews–just the opposite. It was the Israelis who saved her mother’s life after they were bombed by Muslims.
That christianblood is screaming “WHERE IS YOUR HUMANITY WELLINGTON?” when Wellington does not applaud this horror is utterly grotesque.
More:
Please watch the video below as thousands of Shiites and Christians
gather to honor Hezbollah for the protection it gives to those communities! go mark 4:00 of the song and Note there are NO woman wearing hijabs or burqas in the crowd and ask your self why!
………………………
christianblood has posted this video scores of times at this point–asking that we applaud watching cringing Christian dhimmis sing about kissing the feet of their Muslim overlords–which, as he well knows, is not a sign of respect but of absolute abasement as Muslims see it.
He thinks that this is the only way that Christians should be allowed to live in the Middle East, since he wants their sanctuary where they can live with equal rights in Israel destroyed.
More:
Breaking News from the US allied Saudi Arabia:
Dozens of Saudi citizens most them from the Shiite minority were executed in Saudi Arabia by public beheading this week and some were even crucified publicly! Please watch the telling piece below by Murad Gazdiev
………………………
Why does christianblood continue to pretend that those at Jihad Watch–Wellington and myself especially–support the barbaric horrors of Saudi Arabia, when we have both proven hundreds of times that we condemn that vicious Jihad state? Because if christianblood does not lie about us then he has nothing.
gravenimage says
Fine posts, Wellington.
J D.S says
I for one sure appreciate GRAVEN, WELLINGTON and others putting Christianblood in his place. That place being the last rung on the ladder of nothingness. He wastes a lot of time and takes up space on jihad watch that would be better put to use by others…but then really his posts aren’t worth answering at all but I suppose we have to have someone out there to stir the waters.
gravenimage says
True, J D.S. With rare exceptions, christianblood is just here to distract from the fight against Jihad.
gravenimage says
tavern knight, Wellington is right–Terry Gain is a staunch Anti-Jihadist. Terry is being sarcastic here.
Greycap says
Terry’s sarcasm had me nodding in agreement, as his intent was crystal clear. At least to others here.
Mind you, being an 85-year-old English, ex flying chappie, seems to have imbued me with that sometimes rather odd British type of Fawlty Towers humour.
The Froggy president is being a complete clot, but running up the white flag before the infestation of Muslim invaders have even declared victory is typically a French thing.
Think the allies wasted a lot of brave lads and treasure to restore the French freedom after Hitler took over.
If this is how they value their freedoms we should build a bally great wall along The White Cliffs of Dover and say, “P*** off. We’re full!”
gravenimage says
:), Greycap.
gravenimage says
Let m try that again:
🙂 , Greycap.
Lydia Church says
Testing…
Lydia Church says
Will this ‘new spire’ also include a loudspeaker with a call to islamic prayer?
All in the name of ‘multi-culti’ diversity???
Just wait…
It is interesting to notice that at ground zero they wanted to place a monument with the islamic creed on it. It looked like a candy wrapper. The proposal got scrapped, thank the true God!
gravenimage says
Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller–herself a New Yorker–spearheaded the fight against the Ground Zero Mosque.
Reziac says
Mosques are not centers of worship; they are symbols of conquered territory. THAT is why Muslims were so hot to build a mosque at 9/11 ground zero.
Coach Cal says
I leave a ” /s ” so those that have difficulty can understand my sarcasm
elee says
HELL NO
mortimer says
Hell, no. It is not his decision to make … he speaks as if he as a dictator, rather than the SERVANT OF THE PEOPLE. The church owns the cathedral and the French people are the master of the government.
What an arrogant, evil man.
CogitoErgoSum says
Mortimer, I do believe that under French law certain churches built in France before 1905 belong to the French state. Notre Dame de Paris is one of those churches and the Catholic Church does not own it.
Alex says
Yes, you’re right, just like in Italy most of the churches were first confiscated by Napoleon, then given back to their ecclesiastical owners after the Restoration, then confiscated once again by the State. In France’s case by a law of 1905.
I doubt however that the President embodies the state to the point of having the right to decide on such matters all by himself.
jchjrc says
@CogitoErgoSum Exactly right. The state owns Notre Dame. My dream is that Macron leaves and under new leadership, they *do* put up a Minaret, but… with a cross on top.
Imagine the “Call to Prayer” under the cross. But alas, one can NOT have both diversity and Islam, even if Islam is in relatively small measure… They can only have one or the other. They’re choosing Islam.
Christine says
How ridiculous is this!!! How evil is Macron!! A catholic church is a catholic church! That is outrageous!
Peter Leopold says
You’re correct, it’s not his decision. Unfortunately the so-called Pope isn’t any better so who knows what’s in store
gravenimage says
Spot on, elee.
mortimer says
Macron has got to go. He is deranged.
Lisel R Sipes says
Macron and his mother are muslim puppets. But I would think that the French could get him out if they really got together.
I suppose they will want the U.S. to come in and help, again.
Jack Cade says
He must be removed from office as a traitor to France and Western Civilization.
Hindu American says
World wars started when the French capitulated. Yet, the locals/maquis continued the fight. However. this recent French act of giving in to islam is abject surrender.
terry sullivan says
2048–it suggests arson by moslems
Terry Gain says
Being suspicious is completely warranted, especially when the French authorities claim it was an accident even before fire inspectors were allowed to enter the building.
As for strategy, I posit that the 6 requirements of a Muslim conquest are as follows:
1. Be Resolute.
2. Stay On Offense.
3. When Challenged Claim Victimhood.
4. Keep The Petrodollars Coming To Supporters In Academia And The Media.
5. Promote Coexistence And Interfaith Dialogue.
6. Lie As Often As Necessary.
James Lincoln says
Absolutely true, Terry.
mortimer says
This is a declaration of war against all European nations.
This is a challenge to the people to stand up or be exterminated forever.
Terry Gain says
Mortimer
I think of it as more like a Declaration Of Surrender. If a minaret is included in the restoration I propose that the name be changed to Notre-Dame Des 72 Vierges.
thebigW says
maybe Macron wants to one-up Marshal Petain
Ian leacy says
??? spot on.
CogitoErgoSum says
I would consider that to be blasphemy … especially if the Muslims are allowed to make their call to prayer from atop it. Might as well make it a mosque …. and then I will hope it burns again.
Carol the 1st says
I looked up a Domus article by the “minaret-minded” Tom Wilkinson. He seems to have some burr under his saddle re 100 Algerians once getting drowned at the foot of the cathedral. One poster, Daniel, had a good reply to him:
Daniel: “The humus and the ashes of human disasters permits the growth , like in the forests , of the most venomous mushrooms . Tom WILKINSON is of this kind of breed . Notre-Dame is not a Muslim , Buddhist or Shinto building ,neither a Baptist or Methodist temple , it’s a Catholic cathedral where catholics pray to their God and The Virgin Mary . It’s neither a playground for silly ” architects ” or ” designers ” .
Or “in-your-face” culture violators and shills like Macron, May, Merkel, or Trudeau etc.
Renate says
Of course, by now, what else would we expect? We’re living in clown world. An Islamic minaret on a Christian Church. OMG!
gravenimage says
When the Turks invaded Cyprus, here is what they did to the lovely gothic cathedral St. Sophia Cathedral in Nicosia–where they hacked off the bell tower, spliced on an ugly Minaret, and turned it into the Lala Mustafa Pasha Mosque:
https://www.beautifulmosque.com/PostImages/selimiye-mosque-in-nicosia-cyprus-02.jpg
Grotesquely, this mutilated cathedral is tagged “beautiful mosque” in this image.
CogitoErgoSum says
Damn Islam to Hell.
Renate says
It looks like something they’d do.
Kay says
Just like satan— can’t create beauty. Can only steal, mutilate, destroy.
gravenimage says
Grimly true, Kay.
revereridesagain says
You know things are bad when you make a sarcastic remark and it becomes reality. Next it will be the crescent and star on the spire. Somewhere Victor Hugo is turning in his grave.
Billy Chickens says
If they put an Islamic minaret on Notre Dame I’ll go burn the place down myself.
Ashley says
+1
Terry Gain says
Billy Chickens
Would you let me help you?
Billy Chickens says
Most certainly, and thank you for the offer.
Martin says
“If they put an Islamic minaret on Notre Dame I’ll go burn the place down myself.”
The minaret won’t happen now, it’ll happen in 100 years when a Muslim majority rules France and the rest of Western Europe.
Tavish says
There is a populist revival in Europe right now. Hopefully that will be changed and Europe will be saved from destruction by the global, imperialist, supremacist, racist, genocidal death cult founded by the child rapist, thief, killer, wife stealing, torture, hate, murder, wife beating and extortion(“jizya”), lying (“jizya, kitman” and “muruna”) teaching prophet of Satan.
Arthur says
Indeed, I would rather see a cathedral destroyed and remembered as it was instead of mutilated into something it should not be.
Richard Cravatts says
How would an official of the state declare that a religious building should be inclusive? It’s not a public or government building, or monument to the state. And more seriously, once Islam is integrated into that building it will be henceforth considered a Muslim holy place, and eventually would be seen as only a Muslim holy place, not a shared one,
James Lincoln says
Richard Cravatts says, correctly:
“How would an official of the state declare that a religious building should be inclusive?”
In fact, a religious building should be – by design – “exclusive” to people of the same religious faith.
Isn’t that why there are separate freestanding synagogues, Catholic churches, Easton Orthodox churches, Protestant churches, mosques, etc.?
Ayattollah says
Maybe a post card of the kabba in the new gift is ok.
sheliak says
Including a minaret in a rebuilt Notre Dame Cathedral guarantees that every Christian church in western europe will be burnt to the ground in record time.
gravenimage says
Good point.
Martin says
“Including a minaret in a rebuilt Notre Dame Cathedral guarantees that every Christian church in western europe will be burnt to the ground in record time.”
That sounds about right.
Europe’s political leaders are dangerously incompetent and I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if a minaret design wins the competition for the “new” Norte Dame, but I believe that the French people would not stand for it.
Renate says
Does this mean that JERUSALEM’S AL-AQSA MOSQUE will be rebuilt with a church steeple or a bell tower because it burned at the same time as the Notre Dame Cathedral?
CogitoErgoSum says
I doubt the people of the “religion of peace” would peacefully allow the ringing of a bell to disturb their peace.
Renate says
Funny that Macron’s favourite people aren’t keeping in line with diversity like he is.
gravenimage says
+1
Rev.G says
What next ? In the name of diversity maybe the firstborn sons of all Frenchmen should be raised as muslim?
gravenimage says
Ala the Janissaries.
Jay says
France is lost! Macron is an absolute traitor to France and its French citizens!
How did this one world order lunatic ever get elected!! Hopefully Macron is removed from office
for treason ! God save France! God save Notre Dame and all the Catholics and Christians!
No one else will be able to!
Reziac says
I remember the before and after of the election. Basically, Macron lied through his teeth, then flipped around and became his own nemesis the moment election was assured.
Carol the 1st says
Macron was a banking plant waiting in the wings. I wonder how the Nigel Farage Brexit Party will monkey wrench his old “get tough on Brexit” attitude. It seems Tommy Robinson also plans to run for a British MEP spot.
Wellington says
Macron is a fool.
Islam is a supremacist enemy and takes no prisoners.
Western Europe is dying.
This is all (for now).
Jason says
Macron is no fool. He knows exactly what he is doing. It is the French people who were fools in voting for him.
Wellington says
One can know exactly what he is doing and still be a fool.
Jean (old) says
Macron is far worse than a fool. He has promised to islamize France.
https://www.therebel.media/macronleaks_reveal_islamization_plans
Lavéritétriomphera says
Notre dame de Paris is not a secular museum and was still functioning. The cathedral belongs to the Catholic Church and many French people want Notre Dame de Paris to be rebuilt identically.
Macron has understood that the best solution is to not over-antagonize the Parisian and the French people. Otherwise impacts are to be expected.
gravenimage says
I think he’s antagonizing the French people with this.
gravenimage says
Macron says Notre Dame should be rebuilt in line with diversity; architect suggests an Islamic minaret be included
…………………….
F*cking suicidal insanity.
And here I was, worried that some idiot would want to top the cathedral with an IM Pei pyramid–as inappropriate as that would be, it would be positively benign next to this grotesque suggestion.
I hope everyone–especially the French–protest this madness.
Charles says
This is the price paid to have access to petroleum…and the petro-dollar. Each time you spend a Franc on a liter of petrol, you burn it and need another the next day…The Jews and Christians supply no petrol.
gravenimage says
Actually, the US and Canada are supplying plenty of petroleum products now.
Terry Gain says
Charles
This is the result of allowing your brain to be controlled by political correctness. Muslims do not suffer from this pernicious malady.
Wellington says
Uh, my oh my, Charles, how ignorant you are. Under Trump not only does America produce enough petrol for itself but it has actually become an exporter of it.
And what’s with the “Jews and Christians” stuff? Can’t think outside the box at all, can you?
Demsci says
I suppose you using the word “Franc” is indicative how far behind the times you are. Since 2002 France has the Euro!
And as Wellington pointed to; ever since the Shale Revolution America is competing ever better with the OPEC countries and Russia with producing oil. President Trump boosted this production yet again. America is now the biggest oil producer and it aims for still more expansion.
Ever since 2014 the price of oil seems to have a ceiling because price-increase will only solicit an American production increase.
And that helps and frees France too. To a degree, but still.
FYI says
An islamic minaret?
What an incredibly ignorant,culturally insensitive,philistine and moronic idea.
Mr wilkinson’s{Domus magazine}idiotic idea sounds like one you would expect from modern architects.
Modern architects love lots of glass and ugly concrete which they think is delightful.They don’t seem to have any grasp of aesthetics like the Greeks and Romans did.Disliking organic curves, instead they love the Big Glass Boxes .And a Giant Metal Spike:oh how original,thought-provoking and inspiring….
There must be a School of Leftard Architecture at work….that explains the architectural abominations today..
Notre Dame should be rebuilt as a church in its French Gothic Style and with craftspeople who respect the people who built it originally.
That would exclude many modern Architects who no doubt cast a rapacious eye on
the lucrative profits they would gain from rebuilding it in their own,warped,ugly image.
gravenimage says
Modern architecture is pretty pathetic for the most part–but is not usually actively evil, as here.
FYI says
I prefer the architecture of the ancient world and European pre 20th century.
The Greek temples were beautifully designed.The Romans,without the benefit of modern mathematics and engineering, built their aqueducts with a straight-line precision that is still astonishing today.
Romanesque,Baroque and Gothic Architecture come from Europe’s heritage and should always be preserved if possible and not replaced by hideous modern architecture:I don’t trust modern architects I’m afraid..
gravenimage says
+1
Jean (old) says
gravenimage.
That depends. Many in those circles are convinced socialists (Neo-marxists) and will actively oppose beauty in both word and deed, simply because the experience of awe in combination with beauty inspires the idea of a benevolent God. It has always been as important to socialists to smash churches as it is for muslims.
Watch this. Moscow 1931 – just like Paris today:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFlx55OANg8
+ Look into the recent firing of Sir Roger Scruton from the Building Better Building Beautiful Committee in Britain… Though the pretext for firing him is ‘islamophobia’, the stitch-up was done not by muslims but by leftists who even opened a bottle of champagne to celebrate the obstruction of beauty. Sir Roger’s aim was to make beauty a legitimate and crucial feature in architecture again.
And no, beauty is not something entirely subjective. It goes much deeper than that. Aesthetic relativism is as false as cultural relativism.
The Good, the True, and the Beautiful are connected. Sir Roger is one of the very few who stands up for that view today… and it got him fired.
Opposing beauty and striving to have people live out their entire lives among disharmonious structures is not innocent.
gravenimage says
Agreed, Jean–I am myself an art historian, and know this well. Yes, much of modern art and architecture is not just ugly, but actually opposes the entire concept of beauty. It is not just a different aesthetic.
This *is* philosophically evil–I should have said that it is not as evil as actually enabling Islam, as is being urged by Macron.
Notre Dame should be reconstructed as it was–at most, with a few behind-the-scenes techniques to make things safer, but faithful to its original design. This should be *restoration*.
Reconstruction during the 19th century on the Cathedral was on just these lines.
Carol the 1st says
The Giant Metal Spike came from…(drum roll)…you guessed it! The same one who gave Dublin the Nail in the Pale (also known as the Stiffy on the Liffey).
PlasticGangsta says
It’s easy to say it should be restored to its original state but experts on conservation within days of the fire said there just were not the technical skills available anymore at least not unless you want to take 10 or 15 yrs about it and be prepared to spend a vast sum restoring along traditional lines. A minaret is an insult to the men that laboured for decades too build a Cathedral to the Christian God and the many millions of French people that have looked upon the glory of Notre Dame and felt the pride of France.
Anke Leibrecht says
If this should ever be decided I hope the French people will go on the barricades.
It gets worse by the day…oh my God what is happening!! ??
PlasticGangsta says
We are being conquered my dear, from within. They could not do it militarily so they decided to use democracy against us and just simply outvote us. The problem is our liberal and ostensibly laudable rules and attitudes are being used against us. I undertand the compulsion too stand by our values no matter what but when it has become a tool for conscious suicide I think we have too draw the line.
Christine says
Are you kidding? How ridiculous!
Rufolino says
This is NOT ridiculous ! How dare you ! It is politically correct.
(Today, this is the way many people in Europe think.)
Jeanne Campagna says
I can see people pulling their money from this rebuilding cause.
Crusades Were Right says
“New lamps for old!”
Jean (old) says
Genius comment on so many levels.
Crusades Were Right says
Thanks, Jean (old)…
…although, in fairness, the author of the “Arabian Nights” should get the bulk of the credit!
; ¬)
simpleton1 says
It is sort of simple.
Raise all the money!
Accept no government money.
Do not accept any money that has strings attached that do not relate to a Christian Cathedral..
“He who pays the Piper, Calls the tune”
The fund raising should define the purpose, that is for the Church.
simpleton1 says
Since it is a Catholic Cathedral, there should be a call for the Vatican Cardinal Robert Sarah , should be put in an oversight position of what is decided for the Notre Dame restoration.
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2019/04/cardinal-denounces-barbaric-islamist-violence-behind-sri-lanka-jihad-attack.
Raise the money and I think it can be easily raised from around the world, with this Cardinal Robert Sarah in charge, then I feel the restoration will be done well.
I am not a catholic and live in a far off country.
Carol the 1st says
Surely those millionaires contributing are Catholics? They’d better put some conditions on their generosity before Macron manages to desecrate their gifts.
Kerry Wade says
NO WAY IN HELL SHOULD THERE BE A VILE MINARET ON NOTRE DAME. Nor anywhere else for that matter.
Max Serrano says
What Macron is saying is “Let the process of transforming France into a Muslim country start right now”.
Older Canadian says
Disgusting. That would be like sticking a hot poker into the side of all those who have deep religious and yes devoted love for their country. How to start a civil war 101, which the french have always been good at, but ending one not so.
abad says
Quick, someone pour some cassoulet over Notre Dame before any minaret can be built
lmfao
petrouchka rising says
Well that didn’t take long.
CRUSADER says
Nothing but a giant campanile with a liberty bell
and arcades made ready for cannonades
will do on this masterpiece with a cornerstone
placed during the Crusades.
+ + +
Frank Anderson says
I believe no Jew in France is safe now; and will become even less safe as the muslim conquest continues. Jew or Christian should think about finding a way to stop the invasion or getting out. What is posted earlier about the Kalergi (sp?) plan to eliminate “whites” from the EU deserves attention. Who are the real racists?
gravenimage says
Grimly true, Frank.
Frank Anderson says
GI, please never forget that in spite of my issues, my support of Judaism remains.
Lavéritétriomphera says
Frank Anderson,
Bonjour,
Yesterday, Macron said on TV that he does not want a “state within the state”, and that we must combat actively the Muslim fundamentalism.
As far I am concern I think the French people who are Christian or atheist, among the others, will defend their Jewish fellow citizens because they believe the Jews are unfairly attacked.
Amitiés
Frank Anderson says
Kevin, Greetings to you. The impression I get from all I read about Macron is that I have trouble believing what he says. His actions in turning over as much of France as he can at the moment to invaders speaks louder than any convenient words he may speak for the headlines. It would take a complete change of mind and goals, which I do not see reasonably possible in a man so convinced of his own greatness and wisdom. There are many sayings, most too crude for writing here, about people trying to fool audiences with false statements. I’m sure you have several in your list of quotes. Let’s see what he does to prove that he is telling the truth, or lying as usual. For Liberty!
Lavéritétriomphera says
@Frank Anderson,
Bien à toi,
The political opposition and the yellow vests accuse Macron to tell fibs.
I think increasingly that France is now ungovernable. Whatever Macron says, some will not believe him, but he is under a strong pressure and he cannot say or do whatever he wants.
In this time of [deep] crisis French people must remember the musketeers s’motto: “Tous pour un, un pour tous – All for one, one for all”.
Truth and Liberty, both are inseparable.
Amitiés
Frank Anderson says
Kevin, Friend, we had an election a short time ago where one candidate was accused, truthfully or not, of really rotten conduct. The other candidate CLAIMED he would vote as the people of the state wished instead of the liberals dominating the national party. Between doubters of the accused candidate and liberals, the lying scum got elected and the accused was defeated by a slim margin. Guess What? The liar has voted in lockstep with the national party leadership, to Hell with what the people of this state want. The lesson of the story: People will say anything to get elected and then do what their masters order them to do. Macron has masters. Ignore his words and consider ALL his actions.
gravenimage says
Of course, Frank.
Lavéritétriomphera says
@Frank Anderson,
Bonsoir,
Matthew 6:24 “No man can serve two masters: for either he. will hate the one, and love the other; or else. he will hold to the one, and despise the other, Ye cannot serve God and mammon.” Amen.
It seems two third of the French people do not trust Macron.
When Notre dame disaster happened, Macron appeared on TV, he was struggling to hold back his tears and it was for real, so I believed him when in his televised discourse he said he loves deeply France.
Historically no French King or president can accept a state within the state. Macron cannot afford to be an exception, he has probably sensitive informations that we don’t have, and he said the law on the separation of the churches and the state will not be change https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1905_French_law_on_the_Separation_of_the_Churches_and_the_State
“He does not always agree with the Germans” he said. That is good, the Germans do not reassure us and I believe we are not the only ones in Europe, the Russians probably do not trust them too, but I hope that may change.
However, Macron cannot promise the moon especially in terms of economic measures, and even if he is not sincere, he is paving the way to someone else.
À bientôt Ami
Frank Anderson says
Kevin, one of my many wise and honored friends says, “People don’t change; They just get older.” I have had too many experiences with people claiming to be friends who are not. They were highly skilled at being just good enough to ignore the real wrongs and abuses, until finally I woke up and saw what they were doing and moved on. If Macron was crying on camera, it was probably either a good act, or he was facing his political demise as a result of his betraying the welfare and security of your country. I hope for your future that you have better leadership who will take seriously what is best for France, and along the way best for all civilization. Peace be with you.
Lavéritétriomphera says
@Frank Anderson,
Bonjour,
Other times it’s enough just to balance hormones to initiate a change for some. An ox is a castrated bull. Drugs, supplements, medicine or alcohol can have a significant impact on our behavior. We must adapt, evolve and we change as a result of the environment, and our personal choices. Of course I eliminate the followers of the totalitarian ideologies, all these people who never ask questions as to how, what and why things are. I believe their behavior is comparable to that of herded animals.
An hypocrite remains an hypocrite, but you never know!
Like all the other heads of state Macron has an unofficial discourse and an official speech. He is not stupid, but he could get tired and leave power so it will be necessary to replace him which is what some yellow vests want.
Amitiés
Frank Anderson says
Kevin, I have never seen a liar change, except to get worse and more blatant in his lies. The more he gets away with, the more he will try. I hope good leaders are found and elected who will care for the countries and citizens according to the duties, instead of the wishes of other masters. Make a Wonderful day.
Lavéritétriomphera says
@Frank Anderson,
Salut ami,
We can lie unknowingly, we can be sincere and be wrong, and do you know of anyone, especially when it comes to politics, who always says the truth? Some informations must be kept secret.
I did not vote for Macron and I will probably never do it, but Macron s’ideas and Le Pen s’views coincide in some points.
Now we look forward to the forthcoming elections.
Bien à toi
Frank Anderson says
Kevin, I have been giving professional advice as an engineer and lawyer since 1972. I know how to speak in error, because I have done so too many times. The difference between speaking in error and lying is the intention of a liar to deceive. When I learn of my error, I am the first to give notice and make effort to correct the error. This is the way 12 years of military school with an honor system teaches.
A liar never admits lying. He does everything possible to conceal the lie and to shift the blame elsewhere. His goal is always to misdirect the “client” whether the “client” is an individual or an entire country. I believe Republican Abraham Lincoln is attributed with the quote, “You can fool all of the people some of the time; Some of the people ALL of the time; But you cannot fool ALL of the people ALL of the time.” Look at how thoroughly and for how long Hitler fooled the people of Germany. It can happen. How many more times and countries must learn this the hard way? Always best wishes.
Lavéritétriomphera says
@Frank Anderson,
Bonjour,
Hitler did not fooled the people of Germany, he did not hide his true intentions, everything is written down in black and white in his book “Mein Kampf”.
The Islamists do not hide their true intentions too, and everything is written down here in the Quran and the Hadith-s.
It is to easy to say “I did not know”. That is not a white lie but a deliberate lie. The Germans knew what Hitler was capable of doing, all they had to do was to read his book and to listen to his speeches!
The Muslims, and they are not the only ones, know what is going on around them, but they turn a blind eye because they might be terrified [fear of stigmatization and physical violence, of hell and so on … ].
Macron did not hide his agenda and now the people who voted for him, are grumbling. We must all assume our responsibilities one day or another, so we’d better start right now.
Amitiés
Frank Anderson says
Kevin, I think you may be in error about Hitler. The German people did not want war and almost certainly did not want to be involved in mass murder. Hitler knew this and kept his agenda from the people until there was nothing to do that would stop him. When he ordered the re-occupation of the Rhine region of Germany that was for a time occupied by France and Belgium and then “de-militarized”, there were orders for the instant retreat if any military opposition was threatened. When his first mass killing of disabled children and adults became known, it was stopped when the general public found out and complained. I THINK that response is the reason some question the role of the Catholic church in not doing more to stop the Holocaust, and then doing what was done to help war criminals escape. The debate has continued since the end of the war and will almost certainly never be resolved. I have watched a number of interviews of German survivors of WWII, including one who was a rabid Hitler Youth who later “saw the light”, Alphonse Hecht (?), who give some support that Germans did not know the whole plan of Hitler.
Remember, it is not legally necessary for every member of a conspiracy to know all the details. It is only necessary to know the goals and help their accomplishment. Ignorance, deliberate or not, does not excuse one from being fully responsible for all acts committed in furtherance of a conspiracy. Think about who that could apply to in today’s governments. Always best wishes.
Lavéritétriomphera says
@Frank Anderson,
Bonsoir,
“If at the beginning of the War and during the War twelve or fifteen thousand of these Hebrew corrupters of the people had been held under poison gas, as happened to hundreds of thousands of our very best German workers in the field, the sacrifice of millions at the front would not have been in vain. On the contrary: twelve thousand scoundrels eliminated in time might have saved the lives of a million real Germans, valuable for the future.” Mein Kampf volume 2 chapter 5 http://www.mondopolitico.com/library/meinkampf/v2c15.htm.
I agree with you the holocaust is not describe in detail, and at the beginning Mein kamph was not a great success, but this book falls within a context of European antisemitism and racism.
Hitler speech 10 November 1933 http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/genocide/hitler_audio.shtml.
It is obvious Hitler was not a pacifist.
I was a teenager when I said to a man in his 40s : “and you did not see this (the war) coming.” and he answered: “Oh yes we saw it ‘this calamity’ coming!”.
Europe and USA knew that Hitler wanted the war:
“You were given the choice between war and dishonour. You chose dishonour, and you will have war.’ Churchill 1938 http://www.standardnewswire.com/news/582657.html.
However, in the words of an Arab proverb, “there is noone more blind than he who does not wish to see”.
And it is still the problem as we notice when it comes to the “religion of peace”, the Islamists, the Quran, the Hadith-s …
Amitiés
Battle says
For abad +100
somehistory says
A few days after the fire, April 19, 2019 FPM had an article on the fire, the Cathedral, etc. written by Milo Yiannopoulos .”The Notre Dame Fire: Our Fault, Our Most Grievous Fault ”
It was well-written. Close to the end, there is a paragraph where he said that already macron was talking calls from people wanting there to be “space” for other “faiths.” Read the paragraph. Note the last few sentences.
“Hilaire Belloc could say, approvingly and as recently as the twentieth century, that Europe “repairs and finishes.” Could he have said that today? Would he, after hearing Emmanuel Macron’s chilling pledge that Notre Dame will be rebuilt “more beautiful than before”? In 1905, churches in France were declared the property of the state, which raises horrifying prospects for Notre Dame’s reconstruction. Will Macron suggest a “multi-faith prayer space” in order to be “truly inclusive” of France’s “multicultural society”? Don’t bet against it, folks. Already the calls are going out from elitist architects—in Rolling Stone, natch—that the rebuilding should not reflect “white European France.”
https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/273524/notre-dame-fire-our-fault-our-most-grievous-fault-milo-yiannopoulos
The moslim rule…bolstered by those supporting this evil from satan…is: Don’t let anyone non moslim have anything, anywhere, anytime…that belongs exclusively to them…. taint and soil and ruin everything with islam.
tim gallagher says
somehistory, I very much like your last paragraph. I believe it is an accurate summary of what islam is like. We have to keep satanic Islam out. It is the only approach to the problem it brings. You’re right about how Islam demands everything for itself and has no tolerance for anything else. And people here in the western countries keep caving in to this evil, barbaric ideology. Keep this evil ideology out, nothing else can work.
somehistory says
tim gallagher
thank you very much. I appreciate it.
Joe@joemail.com says
Notre Dame is first and foremost a church and should be rebuilt as such. Christians should decide what happens, not the homosexual globalist Macron.
Rufolino says
If Macron is homosexual (not that I’ve heard), what has THAT got to do with anything ? Take your prejudices somewhere else.
Joe@joemail.com says
Just stating descriptive facts, not prejudices
gravenimage says
Emmanuel Macron has been married to Brigitte Trogneux since 2007. Only his political enemies seem to be calling him gay.
Personally, unless he is cheating on his wife, I consider it a non-issue.
James Lincoln says
“Macron says Notre Dame should be rebuilt consistent with the modern, diverse France – and architects suggest a glass roof, steel spire and minaret”
The smoke hasn’t fully cleared, a full evidence-based investigation regarding the etiology of the fire has not yet been completed, and they’re already talking about putting a minaret on the top of a rebuilt Notre Dame.
The final outcome of the investigation is still pending, however if the fire turns out to be inspired by Islam will they still want to include the minaret?
CogitoErgoSum says
Even if someone admits to setting the fire and says it was done in the name of Islam, people like Macron will still conclude it was done by a Muslim who either didn’t really understand Islam or was mentally ill. It’s a strong delusion. See the Lee Rigby murder where the killers justified their murder to bystanders with reading the Quran while turning the pages with blood on their hands and then were admonished by the Judge at their sentencing to spend their time in prison studying the Quran.
James Lincoln says
CES,
The delusion is beyond disturbing… More like maddening…
Rufolino says
It will NEVER be determined that “the fire was inspired by Islam” !
Macron would not allow such a thing, that is WHY it was proclaimed an accident while the fire was still burning.
Terry Gain says
If it turns out the fire was started by Muslims, it won’t be Islam that will be blamed. It will have been caused by mental illness.
Eric Jones says
Macron’s suggestion is unacceptable. Its surrendering to Muslims. I hope the French drive Macron from office. Thank God the French Resistance during WWII had more courage than Macron.
Eric
MS says
If the French don’t revolt at this submission/surrender… Normandy etc was a waste.
gravenimage says
They need to protest this.
dumbledoresarmy says
*Everyone* needs to protest this. Especially, every person here who has ever been to France and marvelled at the beauty of Notre Dame as it was before this fire; particularly, every person who has or had planned to visit France particularly to see Notre Dame; most particularly, anyone here who has ever participated in **Christian worship** in Notre Dame. And everyone else here – whether they have been to France or not, whether they ever intend to travel to France or not – who can see that the proposal to turn it into anything at all resembling a mosque, any proposal to do anything other than restore it to the beauty and glory that it had on the day before the fire, is an obscenity, an absurdity, and a gross insult to those who originally designed and built it, and those who restored it and beautified it in previous generations – notably Victor Hugo.
ALL of us jihadwatchers must write: to the French embassy in our respective countries. Express condolences, express our sorrow at the destruction that took place; and *also* express our absolute *horror* at the very idea of adding a *minaret*, our revulsion at the idea that Notre Dame should become anything other than the church it has been (apart from a short period of madness during the French Revolution) and that it *is*. The spire, if rebuilt, MUST be in a style consistent with the rest of the building; and it MUST NOT be anything the least bit resembling an Islamic minaret. Let them know, loud and clear, that thousands and thousands of people, the world over, loved and love Notre Dame **as a Gothic Cathedral** and DO NOT WANT it turned into anything else… and most especially do not want it Islamised in any way, shape or form.
Because.. tourist dollars. Millions of people visit Paris and Notre Dame de Paris **as it was** has been one of the iconic and best-beloved tourist destinations. Let the French know – by the emphasis on the beauty of Notre Dame *as was*, as an object of desire and admiration – that if they wreck Notre Dame they will most certainly lose a *lot* of euro-spending visitors they might otherwise have had.
Further: if there are jihadwatchers here present who are French; why not hold a rally to make plain your desire that Notre Dame be scrupulously restored **as was**, as it was the very day before this fire, 19th-century spire and all. NO ‘interfaith’ nonsense; and most especially NO overt *or* covert Islamisation of Our Lady of Paris.
Walk around Notre Dame, as close as you are permitted to go; and as you go, sing the Ave Maria…. and the Magnificat. Christians; carry the Cross as you do this. Maybe find a time when you can gather for an entire day, from dawn to dusk, and.. let the Christians among you pray or sing the Angelus, in public, next to the Cathedral, at morning, noon and sunset. LOUDLY. Hold a novena! If Catholic, recite the Rosary; Protestants can join in when reciting the Lord’s Prayer and the Magnificat.
*Any* Europe-resident jihadwatchers, British, Belgian, German, Dane, Swede… here present lurking or posting.. if you have the opportunity to visit France, preferably as soon as possible…then …organise yourselves to visit Notre Dame and proclaim your desire that it be restored *as was*. NO alterations. NON, NON, NON to the Islamisation of Our Lady of Paris.
There is nothing to stop people from holding rallies in other parts of the world, too: rallies of solidarity with Notre Dame and with the non-Muslims of France, especially with the Christians of France, all of whom would be deeply grieved by an Islamisation of Notre Dame.
Let Notre Dame become a rallying-point for the *resistance* to the Islamisation of Europe.
gravenimage says
Hear, hear, DDA! Notre Dame is part of humanity’s heritage.
Here is the French Embassy in Washington, DC, for concerned Americans:
EMBASSY OF FRANCE IN THE UNITED STATES
4101 Reservoir Road, NW – Washington, D.C. – 20007
Phone: + 1 (202) 944 6000
https://franceintheus.org/spip.php?article1131
Here is the French Embassy in Australia:
Consulate General of France
Level 26, St Martins Tower, 31 Market St, Sydney NSW 2000, Australia
Phone: +61 2 9268 2400
A quick Google search will find you the French Embassy anywhere in the world.
Rhiannon says
WHAT????? That bottom-dweller, Macron, suggested there be a minaret on Notre Dame!!? Sacre bleu!!! That is blasphemous! Would they allow a spire or cross on their mosque??? He is out of his blooming mind!! If the French need SOMETHING to revolt about, this is classic.
Suze says
If the people of France accept this then there’s no hope for Christianity Catholicism or any other religion on the face of the earth
Peggy says
All I can say is, LET SANITY PREVAIL.
Maybe the French will stop it from happening. French are not easily subdued and don’t shy away from revolutions.
When is their next election? Marine Le Penn has to win.
david says
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-Ottoman_alliance
Renee (@renee6542) says
Apr 26, 2019 at 2:08 am
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
It would be a travesty that a marvel such as Notre Dame should be rebuilt in the manner suggested by Macron et al. Notre Dame Cathedral is an architectural masterpiece but also a holy place. It is impossible to rebuild it as it was. The destroyed wood and stained glass structures and the skill of the master craftsmen are lost forever. The age of these things can not be reproduced. It may be best to clean it all up as well as possible, fortify it against any deterioration, and use glass (with proper support) to represent where ceilings used to be. Not a modern use of glass and steel AT ALL, but glass used with wood or a type of wrought iron as support.
Notre Dame can not be rebuilt as it was. It’s impossible. It can be ‘restored’ and preserved. A museum in its honor can be built nearby.
I think it is arrogant and pretentious to attempt to rebuild Notre Dame. It took nearly 200 years to complete and was built to glorify God, and was not simply a job maker. Macron shouldn’t spoil what’s left of it.
gravenimage says
The stained glass windows were saved, including the famous rose window. About the only thing that cannot be rebuilt as it was is the oak underpinnings of the roof, because there are no oaks of that size remaining in Europe. A loss, certainly, but a minor one in the scheme of things, and one that the average church-goer never saw, in any case.
Of course it should be rebuilt. The Cathedral was heavily renovated in the 19th century because of centuries of wear and tear–was that “arrogant” as well?
David John Peirce says
Pope Urban II’s Speech to the Council of Clermont (Robert the Monk version)
https://youtu.be/YodbSWhVSe0
dumbledoresarmy says
From the article – “The Telegraph published an article claiming it would be a “travesty” to restore Notre Dame, while Rolling Stone quoted a Harvard architecture historian as saying that the burning of a building “so overburdened with meaning… feels like an act of liberation.”
Remarks:
Let’s find out the names of the authors of those articles – that article in the “Telegraph” and the “Harvard architecture historian”.
Then write to *them* – and to the “Telegraph” and to “Rolling Stone” – and let them know just exactly what we think of them. I do hope that Hugh Fitzgerald is penning something suitable to the occasion; perhaps he could post it here, for the rest of us to copy or use as a template for our own personalised communications.
Harvard, too, which pays the salary of that architect, should be put on notice that they are nurturing a barbarian in their midst, an enemy of beauty, a hater of history.
More: “Lord Norman Foster, arguably Britain’s most famous modern architect, has unveiled a design topping the ancient cathedral with a glass and steel canopy with a featureless glass and steel spire, which he describes as “a work of art about light” which would be “contemporary and very spiritual and capture the confident spirit of the time”.”
Remarks – Lord Norman Foster needs to receive some letters, too, telling him just exactly what we think of this proposal to uglify a lovely Gothic Cathedral with a “featureless glass and steel spire”.
More:
“Ian Ritchie, a modern architect most famous for the so-called Spire of Dublin – a metal spike erected in the Irish capital – is mulling a proposal along similar lines, which he describes as “a refracting, super-slender reflecting crystal to heaven” or a “beautiful contemporary tracery of glass crystals and stainless steel” – i.e. a featureless glass and steel spire.”
Remarks – Ian Ritchie should get a letter, too, telling him to sit down and shut up and that NOBODY will come to Paris to look at such a hideous object as he has already inflicted upon Dublin, and that his proposal to uglify Notre Dame – Notre Dame! – meets with scorn and derision.
More:
“Perhaps most controversial is a proposal in Domus, the architecture magazine, by Tom Wilkinson, for the fallen spire to be replaced with an Islamic minaret…”.
What is Tom Wilkinson’s address, and who employs him?
Letters should be sent also to him, and to “Domus”, heaping scorn and fury upon this ghastly proposal, and stating just how entirely awful it is. The Muslims already have possession of Hagia Sophia; they must NOT be given Notre Dame on a platter.
Catholic Christians have just been butchered, by the *hundreds*, in churches in Sri Lanka, on Easter Day, **by pious Muslims**… and this awful, unutterably awful and vile Tom Wilkinson proposes to turn Notre Dame – a great Christian church that was burnt only three days before the Muslim mass-murder of Christians in Sri Lanka – into.. a *mosque*???
Let there be a spire, a spire consistent with the style of the rest of the Cathedral, a beautiful *Christian* church spire. Notre Dame deserves the best; and *that* would be the best.
dumbledoresarmy says
I read the whole article. Wilkinson didn’t just propose a minaret, he wants a minaret to memorialise Algerian Muslims! I quote – “Perhaps most controversial is a proposal in Domus, the architecture magazine, by Tom Wilkinson, for the fallen spire to be replaced with an Islamic minaret, to memorialize Algerians who protested the French government in the 1960s.
“These victims of the state could be memorialized by replacing the spire with – why not? – a graceful minaret”, Wilkinson insisted.”
I feel sick.
Well, then, here’s a counter-proposal; that a Christian spire in impeccably Gothic style be built; *and* that that spire be dedicated in honour of… the hundreds of Sri Lankan Christians – most of them *Catholic* Christians – who, barely a week after the burning of Notre Dame, were *massacred* by Muslim jihadis on *Easter Sunday* in Sri Lanka, while they – those Christians – were worshipping in their churches.
gravenimage says
Harvard architecture historian as saying that the burning of a building “so overburdened with meaning… feels like an act of liberation.”
……………….
Perverse, DDA.
I forget now what moronic thug described the horrors of 9/11 as aesthetic.
Lisel R Sipes says
Harvard is so full of anti-Christian, anti-American, anti-common sense or common decency people that is almost amusing.
Jean (old) says
Here’s Our Lady’s own opinion of the idea:
http://www.hli.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/mary.serpent.png
Marigold says
Notre Dame MIGHT have become a favourite place for tourists and scholars to admire the ancient Gothic architecture.Some MIGHT think it is no more than a glorified museum but that doesn’t make them right. It MIGHT mean nothing to them about WHY it was built in the first place – to the Glory of God and to celebrate the Holy Mass.For those who don’t know what the Holy Mass is about it is the sacrament which evolved out of Our Lord Jesus’command to His disciples on Holy Thursday at the Last Supper, on the night before He was crucified when He washed their feet and broke the bread saying”Do this in remembrance of Me’.Some tourists and scholars might not believe in or care about any of that but the FACT remains that the Holy Mass and other Sacraments of the Catholic Church are still celebrated there so it is still a holy place.GOD STILL RESIDES THERE IN THE TABERNACLES.
My husband and I went to Confession there about five years ago and felt privileged and humbled to receive forgiveness in such a beautiful and ancient building even if it does belong now to the French Government in the name of the French people.
For a minaret to be incorporated into the rebuilt cathedral is unthinkable and those who have suggested such a thing should be ashamed of themselves.In my opinion it would be a sacrilege just as bad as when the godess of reason was crowned in there during the Revolution. This is because Muslims do not believe in Jesus as the Son of God, the Crucifixion or the Resurrection let alone the True Presence of Christ in the consecrated bread and wine.
I hope the faithful in France rise up in protest against it.
gravenimage says
I hope *every* patriotic French person, Christian or not, protests this–as well as those around the world.
Anjuli Pandavar says
Funny how only one “community” in this “diverse nation” seems to be benefitting from this catastrophe.
“consistent with our modern, diverse nation” means no repairs at all and demolition if repair is attempted. It means silent prayer within the ruins. It means “a certain community” can walk in and do with it whatever they like whenever they like, and whoever is there at the time must stop doing whatever they’re doing and clear out. This includes replacing the Notre Dame with a mosque, the first and most prominent part of which has just been proposed. NO MUSLIM WILL OBJECT TO THIS. That’s how French they are.
Don’t worry. No one’s going to force anyone to go down this road. Macron has already taken the first step: ‘Macron’s initial promise to restore the magnificent cathedral to its former glory has been shoved aside. Now he says it will be rebuilt “consistent with our modern, diverse nation”.’
Yellow Vests, Save Your Land! Soon there’ll be nothing left to fight for.
gravenimage says
Sadly, most of the Yellow Vests don’t seem to care much one way or the other about the threat of Islam.
Paul Weston says
Of course the re-building should reflect the diverse population of France. Why not? France is becoming a Muslim nation in spiritual terms, so lets not pretend otherwise.
The bigger question of course, is should France deport its Muslims and thereby remain part of Western Civilisation?
If you don’t agree with that scenario, then you can hardly complain about religious buildings in France reflecting France’s largest religion……
tim gallagher says
A minaret on the rebuilt Notre Dame cathedral. What the F*ck! When I read this suggestion by this loony architect, I thought, well, this is one of those types of ideas that are so insane, so way out there, that you just have to say, well, you just couldn’t make this demented stuff up. It is such a bizarre idea. Is it some kind of satire? It would be a symbol of total surrender to the Muslim enemy. But surely the French government won’t consider this idea for more than a couple of seconds. I mean, they would get many suggestions from many architects with loony leftie views of life and a hatred for western civilisation, but would surely throw them into the nearest rubbish bin. Then again, they do cave in to thuggish Islam over and over. I don’t think the French people would put up with a minaret on Notre Dame. I hope they wouldn’t as that would mean they are too far gone to be saved. After all, there is plenty of support for Le Pen, so there are plenty of French people who oppose the Islamic invasion.
Dapto says
And Crosses on all mosques
Anne Reed says
So sorry to say this but I would rather see it leveled than have it be anything more than it was. IT IS NOT A MOSQUE. IT IS A CATHEDRAL. So sick of this muslim shite being shoved down our throats.
Dano says
The architect should be shot.
windrush48 says
Just as soon as there is a 40′ cross on top of every mosque in the world!!!!!
Terry Gain says
If Muslims were the loving and respectful people Pope Francis claims they are, they would refuse to allow a minaret to placed atop a Catholic Cathedral. I would propose that minarets be placed in glass enclosures buried just in front of the steps to Notre Dame.
Spiro says
Why do so many think this wount happen
Look at European countries they are married to diversity
Inclusiveness political correctness socialism
They keep voting for the same people who promise circus and bread while their country is beings the lost to the invaders
If it doesn’t affect me it’s not a problem that’s the European mind set
Sunni,Shiite,salafi or wahabbi no difference they all follow the Koran just different methods to the same end conquest
Stop with what your gonna do try defending and supporting your Christian faith like you mean it
P S in the Greek anti can mean ” in place of ” not always
Against
alex reid says
BOLLOX! What a load of trash this is. It is the psychological implantation of Islam into Europe & indeed across the World. note they don’t allow churches, cathedrals, Sikh Temples to be built in Muslim countries. After 9/11 in New York City, a Mosque went up just around the corner from ‘ground zero’. Down in Florida, after the massacre carried out by Muslims at that Gay Club, a ‘Praying Room’ was established at the Airport. Stuff them. Ship ’em all out. Along with the Apologist politicians. They are ineffectual.
Alarmed Pig Farmer says
Notre Dame with a minaret. Say this isn’t true, say even just proposing such a thing can’t be true. But it’s all that.
The importance of the old cathedral is enormous. Here’s a proposal: we Infidels will put a minaret on Notre Dame and in exchange a cross will be put on every mosque in France, and there are a lot of them.
Dana Cayton says
Macron is a complete and utter ass, but the French knew this when they elected the dim whit, did they think he would not bend to the globalist….
Alarmed Pig Farmer says
Macron reminds me of John Kerry. Both grew up in fancy schools, but failed to gain entry to their country’s most elite colleges. And both are gigolos, marrying for big money.
rightrightright says
“so overburdened with meaning… feels like an act of liberation.”
‘Let’s blow Mecca and Medina to smithereens as they are so overburdened with meaning. It would feel like an act of liberation’
c matt says
architect suggests an Islamic minaret be included
Fantastic idea – just as soon as Saudi Arabia allows crosses to top mosques in Riyadh.
Coach Cal says
“And Emmanuel Macron, Ma’am?”
“Make it look like an accident 007 …..”
Michael says
Misleading Title. The minarec suggestion is just one of many. It is obvious to expect muslims suggestions since it is an open competition. It doesn’t mean it’s accepted. Make better and clear titles of tht article
gravenimage says
This architect is not a Muslim–he is a dhimmi tool.
Mixtli says
Well, as to Churches belonging to the government, I was also surprised that a couple of years ago, here in Mexico, all the church reparations are paid and done by the Government and the Priests no longer depend on the limosnas(donations)that the faithful give, they receive a monthly salary, in other words they are now bureaucrats and the alms that we give are probably turned over to the government? Probably because, with the exception of sundays and festive days, the churches are empty. Up until the 60s churches were packed the 7 days a week and there were a norm of 7 to 8 masses daily where as now there are only 5 masses daily and if you go during the week, the church will only have a few dozen parishoners in worship service.
Linda Goudsmit says
Macron is not fit for office. France will cease to be France if Macron is re-elected. Replacing Notre Dame’s Gothic spire with a minaret is a symbol of Islamic conquest not multiculturalism. So, unless the French want Macron to lead them into dhimmitude they had better get rid of him in three years when he is up for re-election.
Fort55 says
I predicted it within 24 hours, when I learned the big money donors to rebuild, and as part of the globalist Macron government of the EU “coexist” mandate that is to denigrate everything Christian, Jew and now even Hindus in favour of an axis of evil enviro-animist, a/thiest, socialist alt left and alt right, axis of evil with islamofascism, worse that the 1930s today.
American Pie says
If there is still a sovereign country called France with citizens who identify themselves as Frenchmen then they must stop this affront to their culture. If they fail to do so then the answer is a loud “NO” with regard to both country and their national identity and they are already dhimmi.
UNCLE VLADDI says
“Notre-DOME!”? If this doesn’t end the petit weasel’s presidency, nothing will!
Kerry Wade says
Anyone suggesting a minaret or any other obscenity on Notre Same is, simply put, a fiend; that includes you Macron. I hope LePen topples Macron off his sickening perch. In the context of Muslims attaching churches in France, to suggest a minaret or any ridiculous multicultural delusion in a rebuilt cathedral is a fiend, it is a sickening psychotic suggestion.
Don says
Great Idea ☠️ ! Have Macaroni climb to the Minaret to sound Muslims to daily prayer and behead people on the steps of Notre Dame. This world leadership continues to pump out the greatest number of Morons in history?
Lavéritétriomphera says
@Frank Anderson,
Bonjour,
Other times it’s enough just to balance hormones to initiate a change for some. An ox is a castrated bull. Drugs, supplements, medicine or alcohol can have a significant impact on our behavior. We must adapt, evolve and we change as a result of the environment, and our personal choices. Of course I eliminate the followers of the totalitarian ideologies, all these people who never ask questions as to how, what and why things are. I believe their behavior is comparable to that of herded animals.
An hypocrite remains an hypocrite, but you never know!
Like all the other heads of state Macron has an unofficial discourse and an official speech. He is not stupid, but he could get tired and leave power so it will be necessary to replace him which is what some yellow vests want.
Amitiés
Charles says
So obviously, in an effort to embrace diversity, the mosques will agree to have a crucifix displayed respectfully, The Star Of David, and a Buddha?
Yeah, I didn’t think so.
LorFalcon says
France is already a bent-over-buddy to islame. If this happens i will not ever visit Paris again.
Lavéritétriomphera says
Erratum: Mein Kampf volume 2 chapter 15
Frank Anderson says
Kevin, I have no reason to question your quote from Mein Kampf. My impression, which is no more than that, comes from all that I have read and seen on television interviews. I readily agree that my impression may be off target to some extent, if not entirely. I think many people after 1933 had copies of Mein Kampf in their homes to keep from being reported as non-compliant, with miserable consequences certain to follow. The few who had copies before Hitler’s appointment were not likely to do that much reading and serious analysis of his words, those words’ meaning and the implications to follow. Look at the zombie-like expressions of the mobs on the street and audiences at the speeches. We have no similar reason to doubt both the words and practice of islam for 1400 years. Both are quite clear to anyone who takes the time for the least bit of reading and research.
Any thinking person, such as Winston Churchill, which clearly excludes Neville Chamberlain and Louis (?) Daladier, could see that Hitler was determined to start a war. We should be very happy he conducted it as he did or he might have won. I could write an extended list of the errors he made in timing and allocation of resources that made defeat inevitable.
I think there might be a number of origins for the proverb about refusing to see. I believe in a previous exchange here, there is a Biblical source also. IF we disagree about anything, it is in to me truly minor details instead of major issues. Always best wishes.
Lavéritétriomphera says
@Frank Anderson,
Hi Frank,
Don’t have to be a rocket scientist to understand that Communist Manifesto, Mein kampf and the Quran are not pacific books, it is just enough to read them.
Germans knew what the situation was, remember the SS, and as far I am concern people who are in the denial, are accomplices.
And as Marine Le Pen said, ISIS and de facto the Islamists, unlike other speakers, keep their promises. So we are not misguided and we know what to expect. Needless to say :”I was duped while it is obvious that this has not happened”.
Amitiés
Frank Anderson says
Kevin, in my experience you are correct. There are 2 levels or tracks of “thinking”. One is that used to rationalize one’s actions so that they are acceptable. The other is the truth to a fair and objective observer. I have faced a situation where if I had been able to rationalize the theft of more than 200 Million dollars, I would have lived well and retired rich. Because I could not “go along” I was destroyed. The people who were stealing the money are still in power and living well. At one time, I had to dig ditches, sweep floors and carry out garbage to earn a living. In Nazi Germany I would have simply been killed. But in the US, with the Second Amendment, it would take a combination of guts and skill to kill me that the other side did not have. They knew what would happen if they tried and their plan did not work. Doing what is right in a corrupt environment is dangerous and expensive.
Lavéritétriomphera says
@Frank Anderson,
Bonjour Frank,
“The people who were stealing the money are still in power and living well” are you sure they live well? If we make choices without even realizing their effect, these effects can disturb drastically our mind without our even noticing it in a first instance “I am happier in jail” Bernard Madoff said https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O7YRQ3ifFFM.
“Doing what is right in a corrupt environment is dangerous and expensive” does not mean it is necessary to be ruthless with one self and to accept to be a scapegoat. If we live in a totalitarian system, passive resistance is a good idea as long as we can not do otherwise, in my view. These systems attract the opportunists, the social climbers of all kinds, but that does not mean the people who do evil, are happy.
Amitiés
Frank Anderson says
Kevin, they have families and generous retirements worth millions. I have no family and live on Social Security. As stubborn as I am I can live with myself but still despise liars, cheats, thieves and cowards of all stripes. I never saw myself as a scapegoat. I was the ONE among hundreds of federal regulators, managers, officers and directors of 12 companies who fought the stealing of money from the owners. When I did my research for my legal war, I wrote that I was fighting Custer’s Last Stand out of ignorance instead of Rourke’s Drift understanding how to organize and build defenses against massive power. I would never advise anyone to repeat my experience. Why should any good person commit self-destruction because someone else is a crook? Always best wishes to you.
Lavéritétriomphera says
@Frank Anderson,
Bonsoir Frank,
I appreciate your comments based on experience.
As far as I know you have made a choice, you upheld your principles. You had to choose between freedom and money, you have chosen freedom.
l believe it is better to have nothing to lose that to have everything to lose while having a heavy conscience, and spend sleepless nights to the point of swallowing tablets.
As far I am concern preparing our own meals is less expensive and better for health, I would advise strongly against ready-prepared meals.
Always best wishes,
Amitiés
Frank Anderson says
Kevin, my experience on the subject of corruption started in 1982. I have learned much and pass it on at every opportunity. A good, cheap TV dinner is okay from time to time. But I cook simple, tasty dishes to my satisfaction. I also enjoy the company of many good friends who choose without compulsion to be my friends. Those friends by choice are much more reliable than “biological family”. While my choice is expensive it is also the right choice for me. BUT there is no sense in others being forced into the same choice. I include you among my friends. Thank you.
Lavéritétriomphera says
@Frank Anderson,
Hi Frank,
I am proud to be your friend.
More we get older and more we must watch our diet: hydration, fast-release sugars, gluten intolerance, and so on.
Food is very important in France as it is in Spain and in Italy.
In the south of France our food is Mediterranean, but we use a lot of duck fat as in cassoulet or confit de canard, and we hope to live to a healthy old age.
Returning to the specifics of what we’ve been talking about in this press article, Macron cannot do what he wants. He will finish his term in 2222, and it no certain that he will run for the presidential elections and that he will be re-elected.
Amitiés
Frank Anderson says
Kevin, FOOD is important everywhere!. I don’t drink alcohol, don’t take non-prescribed drugs, don’t smoke, and have only one woman in my life. That leaves food, playing in a machine shop and doing various good deeds for amusement.
I am sorry you are stuck with an idiot who is selling out your country for another 3 years. How much more damage can he do in that time. Eight years under Obama has left devastation that will take decades to repair, if repair is possible. Otherwise the US will join many other experiments in history. Let’s make the best of it: This is the only life we have at the moment.
Lavéritétriomphera says
@Frank Anderson,
Bonjour Frank,
I must must be tired, of course Macron will finish his term in 2022 not in 2222. The term of our presidents is already rather long just as it is now.
We voted for Macron and we have to assume our responsibilities, but I am not truly worried for the “king” at the moment.
I think we have pretty well exhausted the subject.
I truly appreciate the welcome in this American site, and I will continue to write comments.
I would be delighted to hear from you soon.
Amitiés
Frank Anderson says
Kevin, the keyboard has a mind of its own. I knew what you meant. With the damage being done daily, it will seem like 2222 is the correct date. But fortunately that is not likely. Peace be with you always.