“But something else is concerning to me: the regression of us Christians when we take away freedom of conscience. Think of the Christian doctors and hospital institutions that do not have the right of conscientious objection, for example, for euthanasia. How? The Church has moved on and you Christian countries go backwards? Think of this because it is a truth. Today, we Christians have the danger that some governments will take away our freedom of conscience, which is the first step toward freedom of worship. The response isn’t easy. But, let’s not accuse Muslims. Let’s accuse ourselves also in these countries where this happens. It is a shame.”
Note what is happening here. The Pope is comparing Islam’s death penalty for apostasy, which is taught by Muhammad (making it virtually impossible to reform or refashion) and by all the schools of Islamic jurisprudence, with post-Christian hospitals not allowing Christians to object to euthanasia. And he is ascribing the latter to Christianity.
Is there no low to which he will not stoop in order to defend Islam?
The death penalty for apostasy is part of Islamic law. It’s based on the Qur’an: “They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah. But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper.” (Qur’an 4:89)
A hadith depicts Muhammad saying: “Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him” (Bukhari 9.84.57). The death penalty for apostasy is part of Islamic law according to all the schools of Islamic jurisprudence.
This is still the position of all the schools of Islamic jurisprudence, both Sunni and Shi’ite. Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi, the most renowned and prominent Muslim cleric in the world, has stated: “The Muslim jurists are unanimous that apostates must be punished, yet they differ as to determining the kind of punishment to be inflicted upon them. The majority of them, including the four main schools of jurisprudence (Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi’i, and Hanbali) as well as the other four schools of jurisprudence (the four Shiite schools of Az-Zaidiyyah, Al-Ithna-‘ashriyyah, Al-Ja’fariyyah, and Az-Zaheriyyah) agree that apostates must be executed.”
Qaradawi also once famously said: “If they had gotten rid of the apostasy punishment, Islam wouldn’t exist today.”
“Leave them; they are blind guides. And if a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit.” (Matthew 15:14)
“Full text of Pope Francis’ in-flight press conference from Rabat,” CNA, March 31, 2019:
…Alessandro Gisotti: Clearly, as always, as is tradition, we start with the local media. Siham Toufiki, do you want to ask the question in English, as you like.
Siham Toufiki, MAP: I will ask in French … There were very powerful moments. This visit was exceptional, historic for the Moroccan people. What are the consequences of this visit for the future, for world peace, for coexistence in the dialogue between cultures?
Pope Francis: I will say that now there are flowers, the fruits will come later, but the flowers are promising. I am happy because in these two journeys I have been able to talk much about what is in my heart — peace, unity, fraternity. With Muslim brothers and sisters, we sealed this fraternity in the Abu Dhabi document, and here in Morocco, with this we have all seen a freedom, a welcome, all brothers with such great respect, and this beautiful flower of coexistence, a beautiful flower that is promising to bear fruit.
We must not give up. It is true that there will be still be difficulties. There will be many difficulties because unfortunately there are fundamentalist groups. This too, I would like to say clearly: in every religion there are always fundamentalist groups, who do not want to go forward and [who] live with bitter memories of past struggles and seek more war and also sow fear; and we have seen that it is more beautiful to sow hope. Sowing hope is holding hands, always forward.
We have seen, even in the dialogue with you here in Morocco that bridges are needed, and we feel pain when we see people who prefer to build walls. Why do we feel sad? Because those who build walls will end up being prisoners of the walls they build. Instead, those who build bridges will go forward. Building bridges, for me, is something that goes almost beyond human because it takes great effort.
I was very touched by a sentence in the novel, “The Bridge on the Drina,” by Ivo Andrić. He says that the bridge is made by God with the wings of angels so that men can communicate … so that men can communicate. The bridge is for human communication. And this is beautiful and I saw it here in Morocco. It is beautiful. Instead of walls that are against communication — they are for isolation and those that build them will become prisoners of those walls. So, a summary: the fruits are not seen, but we see so many flowers that will bear fruit. Let’s move forward like this.
Gisotti: Holy Father, Nicolas Seneze from La Croix will now ask his question, perhaps Cristina Cabrejas can get closer so that we save time.
Nicolas Seneze, La Croix: Good evening, Holy Father. Yesterday the King of Morocco said he will protect Jewish Moroccans, and Christians from other countries who live in Morocco. This begs the question: what about the Muslims who convert to Christianity? I wanted to know if you are concerned about these men and women, who risk prison, or death in some Muslim countries, like the Emirates, which you visited. And also a question that is a bit sneaky, which is about Cardinal Barbarin, who was born in Rabat, which you visited for two days.
Pope Francis: And a question?
Seneze: It is a bit tricky, I know, but this week the councils of the Diocese of Lyon voted almost unanimously that a lasting solution be found to his retirement (leave of absence). Setting aside {inaudible} of the cardinal, I wanted to know if it is possible for you, who are very attached to the synodality of the Church, to hear this appeal of a diocese that has such a difficult situation? Thank you.
Pope Francis: The first was what?
Seneze: Muslims who convert to Christianity.
Pope Francis: I can say that in Morocco there is freedom of worship, there is religious liberty, there’s liberty of belonging to a religious creed. Then, freedom always develops, it grows. Think of us Christians 300 years ago, if there was this freedom that we have today. The faith grows in the awareness, the ability to understand itself. A monk from among you, a Frenchman, Vincent of Lérins, in the 9th or 8th century [Ed. 5th century] coined a beautiful expression to explain how you can grow in the faith, better explain things, grow also in morality, but also remaining faithful to your roots. He said three words that precisely mark the way. He said that growing in explication and in understanding of the faith and morality must be “annis scilicet consolidetur, dilatetur tempore, sublimetur aetate,” that is, it must be strengthened in years, enlarged in time, but it is the same faith, and sublimated in years.
So, we understand, for example, that today we in the Church have removed the death penalty from the Catechesim of the Catholic Church. Three hundred years ago, heretics were burned alive. Because the Church has grown in moral conscience, respect for the person, and freedom of worship. We too must continue to grow. There are people, Catholics, who do not accept what the Second Vatican Council said about freedom of worship, freedom of conscience. There are people who don’t accept it. Catholics. Also we have this problem. But, the Muslim brothers also grow in conscience. In some countries, they don’t understand well or they don’t grow like in others.
In Morocco, there is this growth. In this frame, there is the problem of conversion, some countries still don’t see it. I don’t know if it’s prohibited, but the practice is prohibited. Some countries like Morocco don’t make problems – they’re more open, more respectful, they seek a certain way of proceeding with discretion. Other countries with whom I’ve spoken say, “We have no problem, but we prefer they do the baptism outside of the country and they return Christians.” But, there are ways of progressing in the freedom of religion and the freedom of worship.
But something else is concerning to me: the regression of us Christians when we take away freedom of conscience. Think of the Christian doctors and hospital institutions that do not have the right of conscientious objection, for example, for euthanasia. How? The Church has moved on and you Christian countries go backwards? Think of this because it is a truth. Today, we Christians have the danger that some governments will take away our freedom of conscience, which is the first step toward freedom of worship. The response isn’t easy. But, let’s not accuse Muslims. Let’s accuse ourselves also in these countries where this happens. It is a shame….
Kay says
Yes, he ascribes post Christian devaluing of life to Christians by using the word “ourselves.” It doesn’t make sense. And yet it will silence Christians who know to look for their own sins before accusing others. It also leads astray those who don’t claim to follow the Pope because in effect the Pope claims the same false equivalency used by many who hate Christianity.
antonia says
Kay is correct. ‘False equivalency’.
The pope speaks like a typical out-of-control Leftard ! Facts don’t matter to him as much as the SINCERITY of the feeling! The pope’s feelings matter … so much for facts!
Doesn’t anyone check the pope’s speeches? The pope is taking credit for post-modern, atheistic medical ethics! Absurd. Practically all religions condemn euthanasia. The RCC condemns it absolutely. He is searching for an excuse to exonerate Islam from criticism for its medieval, cruel punishments.
There is no equivalency between modern, painless euthanasia and the Islamic crucifixion, hand-chopping, head-chopping and STONING or pushing gay men off a roof !!!
so much for the ‘feelings’ anyone who disagrees.
Herman says
“The pope speaks like a typical out-of-control Leftard !”
EXACTLY… it is just unbelievable what this idiot is proclaiming, thereby destroying the church and being accomplice to the growing murder of christians in the world.
He is in one word disgusting!!
na says
Mullas are trying to steal papal bull. That is why they have many sacred cows. Pope does not understand.
Ian says
Euthanasia is not a devaluing of life, it is the granting of a more merciful death to the terminally ill.
But even then, how can any hospital MAKE a doctor perform a euthanasia? I can’t imagine any doctor, Christian or not, easily agreeing to it. Is this even true?
kathleen7546 says
In Belgium last year 2300 people were euthanized including dozens of psych patients. There, it seems, it is partly a government program. Some are apparently done without agreement /informed concent.
Herman says
Both to Ian and kathleen7546: I do believe euthanasia is a granting for a merciful death. I have seen my mom suffering until the last minute (or should I say second) BUT and that is the problem. The system is abused by family members AND GOVERNMENT to murder people WITHOUT CONSENT!
gravenimage says
Yes–what is happening in Europe now disturbingly goes *way* beyond granting a merciful death to those who have terminal illnesses.
AnneM04031959 says
I simply put the Pope on “on ignore”.
Alarmed Pig Farmer says
So, let me get this straight. We’re not gonna accuse Moslems, but we’re gonna accuse ourselves in addition to accusing Moslems, or was that in addition to not accusing Moslems? Either way it doesn’t matter, cuz it’s the Infidels who will be the fall guy, they always are, so accusing the Moslems, however accurately, is an exercise in empty talk. Hate speech is all it can be. Somebody dial up Hillary.
Renate says
Pope Francis should just slap a crescent moon on the Vatican and be done with it.
Jaladhi says
LOLL..it may soon happen!!
Anonymous says
Another hypocritical comment by the pope was his call for building bridges instead of walls – coming from someone living behind some of the most sturdy and secure walls in the world.
gravenimage says
+1
kathleen 7546 says
I think it is more stunning ignorance. Like his calling the Koran a book of peace. Proof positive he never read it yet is recommenting baloney as if it is the truth.
Dan says
Of course it’s “Our own fault.” for being too stupid to admit what’s going on right under our noses.
But that’s a COLLECTIVE “our” not a personal one.
Walter Sieruk says
Not to get to much off this specific topic but Pope Francis needs to spot meddling in the affairs of other nations , as the European immigration polices of controlling and the limiting of the number of Muslim migrants into the European countries .The pope needs to and should mind his own business as in stopping the child sex abuse by his priests of his church . That’s the pope business not meddling in the affairs and polices of other s nations.
tim gallagher says
You’re probably right, Walter. But where I believe this useless Islamophile Pope should spend his time getting involved and lobbying foreign powers is that he should be telling Muslim nations to stop murdering and oppressing Christians in their countries. I believe that is the main thing this Pope should be doing. He is meant to defend Christians. He seems to be derelict in that duty. Instead, he spends his time supporting the Muslims, the people who treat Christians appallingly. You are right that he should stop telling European countries to keep letting MUslims into their countries. His policies are foolish and dangerous. The people in Europe in the future and right now, who are going to have to deal with the problems Muslim migration has caused, will curse people like this Pope and the other fools who helped create the problems.
kathleen 7546 says
I agree Supporting christians is missing. Implies that what ever Islam says if true because he makes no counter information.
CogitoErgoSum says
In what countries are doctors required to euthanize a person who does not want to die? And for those who do wish to die, wouldn’t they have the right to choose under freedom of conscience?
CogitoErgoSum says
If he is tying this to the death penalty then why does he not say so in straightforward language? He should just come out and say that the death penalty should be abolished for every crime and for every sin. Then he could start talking about how Christ died for our sins so we may live. Oh, this man needs to follow Benedict into retirement.
Jaladhi says
This Pope is a self-loathing nut who is doing lot of damage to world peace!
somehistory says
He’s asked about moslims who convert to Christianity and he lies with the line of “there is religious freedom in Morocco” He knows what the question is and he knows what the Truth is…but he is a liar and a son of the “father of the lie” and like his “father,” “the truth is not in him.”
He is truly sickening. He doesn’t speak for any Christian. He also does not speak for Christ Jesus the King. He speaks for himself and his lying father, satan the devil.
Rufolino says
Somehistory, I too am shocked by the way Bergoglio ignores the reality of death-threats on Christian converts. He deliberately dodged the issue. This has a nasty smell of intellectual dishonesty.
kathleen 7546 says
Religious freedom may be too strong a word. There is some real tolerance. The King requires that Imams have government training and uses monitors to reveal what Mosques preach violence. When I was there in 2015 my tour visited the two very tiny Jewish Temples left there. We visited the conversos housing areas for Jews who fled Spain in the 15th and 16th centuries..
No Muzzies Here says
He’s obviously full of guilt and self-hate for all the evil things that Christians have done in the name of Christianity, and not in the name of Christianity.
This is his overpowering obsession. He has gone around the world apologizing for Christianity and has attacked some fundamental tenets of Christianity.
Seems to me that he really shouldn’t be living as the successor of Peter, and that he should be co-authoring a book with Christopher Hitchens on why Christianity is not great.
Tricia Stuercke says
No Muz, you’re correct. Please see what I just wrote in about this infuriating imposter. He’s increasingly embattled…the Good Guys are becoming Jesus turning the Temple tables!
Alarmed Pig Farmer says
Overwhelm them with love. Then hurry to the burn ward,
Wellington says
This man is a disaster to 1) Catholicism; 2) Christianity in general; 3) Western Civilization, which civilization pioneered more rights than any other civilization in history and which developed liberty more than any civilization in history; and 4) humanity in general.
Yes, he’s this awful and Roman Catholics have one enormous problem on their hands precisely because this guy is the present pontifex maximus. Even corrupt Renaissance Popes like Alexander VI (1492-1503) are preferable to Francis because at least they did not engage in spiritual masochism which this Pope surely has. He remains a disaster in the making and this is a damn shame. He is the the wrong man at the wrong time in the wrong place.
Tricia Stuercke says
Wellington, you speak perfect truth, as always. I just wrote in about the rising push back he’s facing…The Good Guys are taking Christ’s Cue, turning the Temple Tables as much as they can!
Wellington says
Thank you, Tricia.
Pursuing the truth is often deuce difficult and very tricky, but if pursued with due diligence, even ruthlessness at times, it can ordinarily be found out.
The Islamic world and its many dhimmi apologists (no one here comes more to mind than the present Pope) are counting on the truth not being pursued inexorably and with tenacity, whether due to full knowledge of Islam (e.g., CAIR) or willful, blind ignorance of Islam (e.g., Pope Francis).
One can certainly count on this. It’s a given.
kathleen 7546 says
Don’t leave out his usefulness to the one world government crowd. Some think he was hand chosen by them and that the choice of successor Popes in no longer within the church alone.
Tricia Stuercke says
As I’ve mentioned previously, I refuse to call him by his title…Francis has been served the 2 highest documents The Church has for questioning a sitting “pope”; You can Google both: THE DUBIA (Google Francis, Dubbia) is a formal questioning of a “pope”; Francis was served The Dubbia in 2016 by the 4 most Bible-Centric Traditional Conservative Cardinals…then, for the 1st time in 500yrs, a sitting “pope” was formally served A FILIAL CORRECTION, a formal charge of HERESY, which Francis was served in 2017 (Google Francis, Filial Correction). Very Telling: Francis has STILL REFUSED to respond to either formal document; his silence alone reveals his Ill Will. Christ’s most true, worthy servants are doing all they can to force him into resigning & searching the archives for any possible “out clause” that was forgotten in 2000yrs from disuse; his multiple, frequent incorrect teachings alone prove he’s NOT who The Church’s head Bishop is supposed to be.
Obviously, he’s been WRONG on Islam every time he speaks of it, & there are now countless SLAUGHTERED PRIESTS & Parishoners, especially in Nigeria, who’d surely love to tell him about Islam & the Muslim Men who butchered them to death! Jesus was tougher on the Pharisees, by far, & they weren’t terrorizing the world or carving peoples’ heads off! If you’re a praying person, please join me in praying for Francis to somehow be ousted & for him to be replaced by a Traditional Conservative Bible-Centric True Servant of Christ & His Church. Islam is taking full advantage of Francis’ willing ignorance. I would’ve thought the Prophecies alone would keep the occupant of Peter’s Chair from ignoring the truth of Islam, but Francis once again causes me to shake my head…he knows darn well that it’s strongly prophecied that the Vatican will be left in a bloody ruin by Islam, just as they left Jerusalem clear back to their 1st dirty sneak attack on the peacefully sleeping Jews. Alas, God is in control, & we were warned of what these days would bring. We must not forget, “You are Peter (Rock), & on this Rock I will build my Church, & the Gates of Hades shall not prevail against It!”
mneidoff says
Seems like he considers apostasy law as a matter of the fact the muslims have not spiritually evolved. So he accepts them as being morally inferior. While Islamic leaders make demand after demand on the west, the Pope holds them to no bar. I am wondering though lately about the article by Yahya Cholil Staquf, General Secretary of Nahdlatul Ulama, the world’s largest Muslim organisation. He says “….join us in the desperate struggle to reform obsolete and problematic tenets of Islamic orthodoxy, rather than bequeath a tragic legacy of hatred and violence to future generations.” How can they reform these obsolete and problematic tenets of Islamic orthodoxy if it is the word of Allah. I am wondering what steps he is taking within his own organization.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/03/24/prevent-another-christchurch-islam-must-confront-attacks-name/?fbclid=IwAR3cuJFPS0cvG7MmRerujkhEKpeyx1PFhsj8utkit6LPnX9VJ-OnwoPNH_4
somehistory says
What he is doing to Christians everywhere, is like what bo was doing to the U.S.m and esp Christians in the U.S….and both are for the advancement of islam.
Americans were supposed to feel guilty for what had been done in moslim countries, NASA was commanded to make moslims feel “important” and America’s Christians were supposed to feel guilty for “clinging to Bibles” while their “right’s” under the law were undermined by bo’s laws, while he misquoted the Bible and misapplied Scripture…while claiming to be Christian.
This guy going about slobbering over his moslim ‘brothers’ is doing the same thing…working against Christianity, blaming Christians, condemning Christians, accusing Christians, misapplying Scripture, and misquoting Christ… while claiming to be Christian and a “shepherd.”
All actions and words in favor to islam and moslims.
m. says
ftp. i don’t need preaching from the guy wearing a dress & a funny-looking hat.
CogitoErgoSum says
It’s not what he wears that should concern you so much as what it is that comes out of his mouth.
somehistory says
CogitoErgoSum
What comes out of his mouth is what is in his heart. “Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks.” (Jesus Christ)
He is against Christianity, which makes him against Jesus Christ.
CogitoErgoSum says
I’m not sure I would go so far as to say he is against Jesus Christ but it does seem the man’s main interest is in making excuses for Islam and dwelling on whatever faults Christians may have.
somehistory says
CogitoErgoSum
Jesus asked Peter, “Do you love me?” Peter answered, “Yes, Lord.”
this happened several times…Peter even feeling hurt that he was asked more than once… and then Jesus said, “Feed my little sheep.”
If one does not “Love” Christ, He covered that,”He who is not with me, is against me.”
Peter “loved” Jesus and Jesus told him to “Feed His sheep.”
It is clear that this pope is not “feeding Christ’s sheep.” The pope is a cheerleader for the evils of ilsam…which comes from satan.
You may not go that far. But I see by the things Jesus said to Peter, that the pope is against Christ.
CogitoErgoSum says
Peter denied knowing Jesus three times but I don’t think Peter was against Jesus when he did it.
somehistory says
CogitoErgoSum
He regretted it immediately, which is what it means to ask for forgiveness…regret sinning and don’t do it again…which Peter never repeated the action. In fact, it was ***after*** that incident that Jesus had the conversation with him that I wrote about above.
Jesus put a great deal of trust in Peter when commanding him to, “Feed my little sheep.”
The pope just keeps on doing the same thing…over and over and over and, making false claims about what Jesus wants Christians to do….and twisting Scripture, while slobbering over moslims all the time he is aware they are slaughtering Christians. And lying again and again about what islam teaches, and about the “freedoms” moslims offer Christians in their islamic countries.
There is a whole world of difference between Simon Peter, Apostle of Christ and the fool who is pretending to sit in a position of authority over Christians.
. Time will tell if he has the approval and blessing of Jesus and His Heavenly Father. From the Bible, we know Peter did.
CogitoErgoSum says
You make a good point and Francis is no St. Peter (or St. Francis either). As you say, time will tell if he gets behind Jesus and takes up his cross or ends up hanging himself with his own belt.
gravenimage says
Good exchange.
Carolyne says
I find the phrase “If you are not for me you are against me” to be quite similar to Mohammed’s philosophy. The penalty,of course, is quite different.
To the person who mentioned the Pope’s hat, it has an interesting history. The word Pontiff comes From “Ponte” meaning “Bridge.” The ancient keeper of the bridge or toll-taker wore a similar hat or miter. Easter of course was a pagan springtime celebration with watching the sun rise.
FYI says
Bergoglio is a judas pope and a thundering disgrace.Notice how he loves to have a go at Catholics and christians.
This two-faced jesuit hypocrite is the very one who KNOWINGLY promoted the disgusting cardinal mc carrick to senior position .He is a liar and a dissembler.He should be forced out of office.
No has done more to undermine Christianity,diminish catholicism whilst promoting islam,that Bergoglio.
Even his record in Argentina is dubious:the man is a lying fraud!
It is surprising, more cardinals don’t notice that he is promoting Apostasy and Heresy within the catholic church.
CogitoErgoSum says
I concluded years ago that Francis is a Judas type of character. Judas thought Jesus should have done more to help the poor and spent too much time talking about ethereal spiritual matters instead of the cold, hard, current political situation. Judas decided he wanted Jesus discredited (but not necessarily dead) so he (Judas) could promote his own ideas about how things should be. Francis is promoting his own political ideas instead of the spiritual ideas Christ gave us.
FYI says
It would be great if there was a proper pope who would at least take seriously the dangers of islam
just as in the past they worked against Communism: a pope who represented his flock and western values.It is not just that Mr Bergoglio is a bad pope:he is positively antiChristian!
CogitoErgoSum says
If you have a guy on your relay team who just isn’t very fast and drops the baton all the time is he against your team? Well, maybe he could be but it could also be he just isn’t a good athlete. To me, that’s Francis. He’s a bumbler and not very good at what he does. In fact, I don’t think he knows the way to the finish line. I’m going to say that even Judas was a bumbler because I don’t think he realized that his betrayal would lead to a death sentence for Jesus. Francis doesn’t know what he is doing to Jesus either.
antonia says
“this beautiful flower of coexistence” … but Muslims do wish for ‘coexistence’ … Islam requires supremacism.
Rufolino says
If the pope actually thinks that Islam wants “coexitence” after 1400 years of jihad, then he is an idiot.
Naram-Sin says
“Let’s not accuse Muslims. Let’s accuse ourselves also.”
I think I’ll take the 5th, since I haven’t done anything wrong (Pope Francis would hold innocence against me), and stick to accusing Islam of promoting ignorance, hate, slavery, intolerance, murder and rape of infidels, etc., etc, etc. for the past 1400 years.
The Catholic Church has probably survived dumber and more evil popes than Pope Francis, but it’s hard to imagine the church surviving Francis. Oh, well, ISIS need a new capital and the Vatican is as good a place as any.
Terry Gain says
“Let’s not accuse Muslims. Let’s accuse ourselves also.”
…….
I accuse Muslims of murdering tens of thousands of Christians during this man’s Papacy. I accuse this Pope of not uttering one word of protest in response to these massacres.
gravenimage says
Spot on, Terry.
K WAGNER says
LOOK IN THE FU(KING MIRROR YOU HYPOCRITE!
YOU should be promoting Christianity!
The HOLY BIBLE (not the koran) says:
NO MAN CAN GAIN PATH INTO HEAVEN EXCEPT THROUGH JESUS CHRIST. JOHN 3:16…..!!!! .
promoting the worship of a pedophile mohammad sharia, and jihadist will not do anything but lead one to damnation!
Ade Fegan says
Way ahead of you popey
We have been blaming you for years
Ewanda says
It is appalling how Pope Francis is so isolated from the truth and for so long ….. but it is just past the 40th anniversary of the Jim Jones massacre of 900 naive followers.
Can Jim Jones’ spirit be stalking the Vatican and closing the mind and heart of Pope Francis to the cries of dying Christians and future dying Christians at the whims of allah and mohammad all over the globe?
allah and mohammad don’t deserve to be capitalized.
Arnold Jackson says
You cannot use the word “also” without blaming someone else “also”.
So I blame the Muslims and Liberals.
gravenimage says
Pope: “Let’s not accuse Muslims. Let’s accuse ourselves also.”
……………………….
Actually, what he is saying here is ‘let’s not accuse Muslims of anything; let’s accuse ourselves instead’.
More:
“But something else is concerning to me: the regression of us Christians when we take away freedom of conscience. Think of the Christian doctors and hospital institutions that do not have the right of conscientious objection, for example, for euthanasia. How? The Church has moved on and you Christian countries go backwards? Think of this because it is a truth. Today, we Christians have the danger that some governments will take away our freedom of conscience, which is the first step toward freedom of worship. The response isn’t easy. But, let’s not accuse Muslims. Let’s accuse ourselves also in these countries where this happens. It is a shame.”
Note what is happening here. The Pope is comparing Islam’s death penalty for apostasy, which is taught by Muhammad (making it virtually impossible to reform or refashion) and by all the schools of Islamic jurisprudence, with post-Christian hospitals not allowing Christians to object to euthanasia. And he is ascribing the latter to Christianity.
Is there no low to which he will not stoop in order to defend Islam?
……………………….
Exactly. And Christians have *always* had to weigh whether to go along with secular rules and laws that may not agree with Christian faith. Do they do more good as doctors, or would they do more good protesting such laws?
None of this–whatever choice these doctors may make–has they slightest thing to do with Muslims raping, enslaving, and mass slaughtering non-Muslims.
What false moral equivalency.
somehistory says
None of what I wrote is “according to me”. It all comes from the Bible.
As for who “ends up in heaven” or who “inherits the earth” is not up to me or any other human. Those decisions are up to our Creator, the True God and His Son, Jesus Christ. They can “see the heart” and really know what is there in each person.
Humans can see the “fruit” of another person, and hear what they say, which “comes out of the heart.” But we still are not the ones to decide.
gravenimage says
I was very touched by a sentence in the novel, “The Bridge on the Drina,” by Ivo Andrić. He says that the bridge is made by God with the wings of angels so that men can communicate … so that men can communicate. The bridge is for human communication. And this is beautiful and I saw it here in Morocco. It is beautiful. Instead of walls that are against communication — they are for isolation and those that build them will become prisoners of those walls…
…………………………..
This is the Pope lauding Dar-al-Islam, and slamming Trump for daring to try to keep us safe from dangerous invaders. As for Morocco, it takes in few immigrants–it passes most of them over to Europe.
More:
Nicolas Seneze, La Croix: Good evening, Holy Father. Yesterday the King of Morocco said he will protect Jewish Moroccans, and Christians from other countries who live in Morocco. This begs the question: what about the Muslims who convert to Christianity?
…………………………..
Note that Morocco’s High Religious Committee the year before last ruled that apostates from Islam should not be killed. But before you cheer, they also said that Muslims leaving their faith should be considered high treason:
https://www.moroccoworldnews.com/2017/02/207505/moroccos-high-religious-committee-says-apostates-should-not-be-killed/
More:
Seneze: Muslims who convert to Christianity.
Pope Francis: I can say that in Morocco there is freedom of worship, there is religious liberty, there’s liberty of belonging to a religious creed.
…………………………..
Is the Pope unaware that apostasy from Islam is considered high treason, is he lying here, or does he consider being unable to leave Islam without being deemed a traitor to be “religious liberty”? Who knows?
Then he pretends that Christians do not have religious freedom, though he has to go back hundreds of years in order to find examples.
And his citing those Catholics unhappy with Vatican II as wanting Christians who leave the faith to be murdered is just calumny. I have heard many reasons given for disliking Vatican II, including the loss of the Latin Mass, but I have never heard *anyone* who wants to see apostates murdered. The implication that this happened right up until Vatican II is also absurd.
More:
In Morocco, there is this growth. In this frame, there is the problem of conversion, some countries still don’t see it. I don’t know if it’s prohibited, but the practice is prohibited. Some countries like Morocco don’t make problems – they’re more open, more respectful, they seek a certain way of proceeding with discretion. Other countries with whom I’ve spoken say, “We have no problem, but we prefer they do the baptism outside of the country and they return Christians.” But, there are ways of progressing in the freedom of religion and the freedom of worship.
…………………………..
This is obvious crap. Many Muslim countries don’t accept converting out of Islam under any conditions. The pontiff pretending this is not so is just grotesque. He can’t be that ignorant.
CogitoErgoSum says
I think the Pope is pretty ignorant when it comes to Islam. Did the King of Morocco invite the Pope to teach the imams about Christianity or was it for the imams to teach the Pope about Islam? In either case, just a day or two of talk is completely inadequate. He says he sees flowers blooming — probably rainbows and unicorns too.
Kay says
I have heard on the radio that the vatican secretary of state made a statement about the persecution of Christians. All the organizations that help these Christians know that Islamic oppression is the major cause of that persecution worldwide. I haven’t heard the vatican’s statement, but the Pope’s comments make me wonder if the vatican knows these obvious facts.
Rarely says
A wise man I once knew said: “You can’t solve a problem until you know what the problem is”.
Anyone with a Grade 2 education and an IQ in double digits or above knows that muslims are not being problematic because they aren’t getting enough “warm fuzzies”. I suspect that this pope will have to learn this the hard way. Lets hope that not too many innocents are lead to the slaughter by his ignorance.
na says
If you believe in pope , what you get from him solution of money/ job/ cure decease/ solving terrorism/life/ your depression/Islamophobia. Will you get your beloved one who lost.What he can give just an advice not practical solution. Have you ever heard any pope killed by Islamist. But during Ottoman empire and Saudi invasion how many ordinary people raped and killed. If a book that support killing then that should be banned. Have you ever heard a voice of dead man. Have you ever heard voice of JESUS.That is just a moral story. How can we believe story of Jesus. Have you seen,heard, touch using your sense???????????? But see pope he use your money and he has a good luxury life.
You should ban Koran if it promotes hates and violence.Boycotting Israeli product is not a solution.
Peter WF says
When is he going to lead by example and take some refugees in to the Vatican?
Dano says
What should I accuse myself of? This fake pope needs to be taken out. John Paul 2, now he was a Pope. After him it’s been downhill.
UNCLE VLADDI says
i.e: “We should never try to stop others’ far away crimes while people still commit nearby crimes. And we also shouldn’t blame any criminals for their crimes unless we can get them all at the same time – it just wouldn’t be fair.”
Terry Gain says
The Pope’s whataboutism is wrong for two reasons. Firstly Catholic doctrine forbids killing whereas Muslim doctrine commands it. Secondly, during the 350 year history of the Spanish Inquisition the number killed was about 1250. Muslims kill that many every month.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/jun/16/artsandhumanities.internationaleducationnews
Sentinel says
Pope Francis is equivocating as usual… nothing new. It’s up to the sheep to bring Muslims to Christ.
Minas says
Noooo, lets listen to this Bozo and accuse ourselves, that will solve everything.
Jay says
I agree with the comments here today! This Pope is a wolf in sheep’s clothing! He is a one world order plant sent to destroy the Catholic Church and remove borders , except for the Vatican walls that is!
All of a sudden Pope Benedict retires – and this loon shows up. It’s an enormous hoax!
He is the world’s biggest lying hypocrite! I have been a life long Catholic but since Francis became pope I have not given a cent to the church or its charities! Maybe he should pay attention to the rampant pedophila that has been in the Catholic Church for centuries, or …..just resign as pope and become an Iman!
May God save us from this deceiver !! Someday Pope Francis will also answer to a higher power!
somehistory says
Jay,
“Someday Pope Francis will also answer to a higher power!’
He certainly will. I think that “someday” is very near.
peter says
The greatest idiot ever to become a pope . Sooner he learns to blame himself and resign from papacy the better ! Could a pope be impeached!
Mahendra Singh says
This pope is nothing but a clown.