UPDATE:
There has been much discussion circulating about the authenticity of the three “moderate scholars” who were promoted as such by Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International. Much feedback also came in from Jihad Watchers. Referencing al-Qouda as “moderate” drew the concern of many. For this reason, a profile of the two most controversial scholars: Sheikh Salman al-Ouda and Awad al-Qarni is included in this update.
News of the three men facing execution leaves many questions unanswered about the real reason Saudi Arabia is planning to execute them, particularly as there no freedom of speech and no freedom of the press in Saudi Arabia. As indicated below, Saudi crown prince Mohammed bin Salman is unconvincing about his quest for modernized reform as the kingdom continues to embrace and spread Wahhabi ideology and persecute its authentic human rights activists—including the well known Raif Badawi and his sister Samar .
The most notorious of the three men slated for execution is Salman Al-Odah. This is his troubling jihadist profile and reported “change” to moderacy:
Salman Al-Odah was a known inciter of jihad terror and once referred to the late Al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden as “brother”. He was also “infamous for his 1990s sermons ‘Come for Jihad’ and ‘The Industry of Death’ “and for his sermons which were spread throughout Saudi Arabia and beyond. He issued calls for his followers to perform “jihad in Afghanistan, Iraq and other occupied Muslim lands.” In 2012, Al-Odah was quoted by MEMRI as saying: “Jews use human blood for passover matzos”.
According to Arab News, Al-Odah is characterized as a “chameleon cleric”. He reportedly “took a sharp turn at the end of the decade to become a voice of the Islamic Awakening (Al-Sahwa) movement”, and lauded for his “comparatively progressive views in the Islamic world on Sharia and homosexuality.” On the 6th anniversary of 9-11, Arab News quoted him as saying openly on a TV show:
“My brother Osama, how much blood has been spilled? How many innocent people, children, elderly and women have been killed … in the name of Al-Qaeda? Will you be happy to meet God Almighty carrying the burden of these hundreds of thousands or millions of victims on your back?”
Yet, he was still banned as a hate preacher from Denmark in 2017.
Ayed Al-Qarni
Arab News reported that the wildly popular Qarni “with 19 million Twitter followers, was banned from preaching in the 1990s and arrested over his views, but later adopted pro-government stances.” Here one can note an oddity. Saudi Arabia has been noted for its spread of salafi ideology so what was it specifically about Qarni’s views that drew the ire of the Saudi kingdom? Arab News corroborated a Gulf News report that Al-Qarni issued an apology “for his hardline interpretations of Islam and called for a more modernised Islam”, and also expressed his commitment to Mohammed bin Salman. It is interesting to also note that Al-Qarni was scheduled to do a speaking engagement with Tariq Ramadan in December 2015, the latter who is a Muslim Brotherhood promoting, disgraced accused rapist who is funded handsomely by Qatar. But according to the Center for Security Policy, the Muslim Brotherhood political action group that hosted them “suffered a setback… when Saudi cleric Sheikh Ayed al-Qarni was denied entry into the United States.”
It would seem to be that there is much more to the executions of these men than is being revealed. One thing can be certain: dirty politics and Wahhabi oppression are features of Saudi Arabia whether or not any of these men are now “moderate”.
___________________________________
“Three moderate scholars will reportedly be executed in Saudi Arabia after the Muslim holy month of Ramadan. The three men – Sheikh Salman al-Ouda, Awad al-Qarni and Ali al-Omari – are being held on multiple charges of terrorism.” Terrorism is the word used by jihad-sponsoring countries to cover up their misdeeds against anyone who opposes them. Amnesty International identified the men as “peacefully exercising their rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly”. They were not terrorists but opposing the Saudi regime’s oppressive sharia abuses. The Saudis executed 37 of its citizens for so-called “terrorism offences” last month.
Saudi crown prince Mohammed bin Salman, announced that he will “return Saudi Arabia to moderate Islam” last year. There has never been a ‘moderate’ normative Islam in 1400 years to begin with, so his use of the term “return” is fallacious. Despite bin Salman’s appearance of good will, Saudi Arabia has been persecuting Koranists, cracking down on any efforts toward modernizing, jailing women for human rights advocacy and it continues to promote Wahhabi ideology globally. Saudi Arabia was also discovered to be auctioning off Yazidi sex slaves, who were captured by the Islamic State. And when it comes to the barbaric practice of beheadings, the Islamic State has nothing over Saudi Arabia. Claiming efforts to modernize Islam in Saudi Arabia is merely a front.
“Saudi Arabia ‘to execute three moderate scholars after Ramadan'”, by Samuel Osborne, Independent, May 23, 2019:
Three moderate scholars will reportedly be executed in Saudi Arabia after the Muslim holy month of Ramadan.
The three men – Sheikh Salman al-Ouda, Awad al-Qarni and Ali al-Omari – are being held on multiple charges of terrorism.
They will be convicted and executed after the end of Ramadan next month, the Middle East Eye reports, citing two government sources and one of the men’s relatives.
Saudi authorities have not commented on the report.
Adam Coogle, Middle East researcher at Human Rights Watch, said he could not confirm the report, but told The Independent: “What I can say is that Saudi prosecutors are seeking the death penalty against these men merely for their alleged peaceful political affiliations and opinions.”
He added: “We see this as a clear departure from past practice and an indication of just how much the repression level has increased since MBS [Mohammed bin Salman] became crown prince nearly two years ago.”
Mr Odah, who is known for his comparatively progressive views on Sharia (Islamic law) and homosexuality, was arrested in September 2017 after tweeting a prayer calling for reconciliation between Saudi Arabia and Qatar after Riyadh launched a blockade against the emirate.
Dana Ahmed, Amnesty International’s Gulf researcher, told The Independent: “The Saudi Public Prosecution’s recurring calls for the death penalty in the case of a number of individuals being held for peacefully exercising their rights to freedom of expression – including Sheikh Salman al-Ouda – raises real alarms for the fate of detained activists and religious clerics in the country.
“We’re calling on the Saudi Arabian authorities to immediately release those detained solely for peacefully exercising their rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly, and to drop any charges against them.”…..
Benedict says
If you have that much oil at your disposal and for sale, these appalling privileges are granted or at least ignored by the US.
RonaldB says
US does not need Saudi oil. We are the biggest producer of oil in the world and a net exporter. What the US really seeks is Saudi dollars, to which we are addicted through our chronic budget deficits. You go into debt; you have to listen to your creditor.
Patriot2G says
KEEP DRILLING IN ALASKA and START DRILLING OFF THE CALIFORNIA COAST. ??????
St. Patrick says
And lefty Californian’s brains..(what’s left of them) Guess it’s all left gray matter to rot..
Savvy Kafir says
Or, better yet — develop hydrogen fuel cell technology and infrastructure, so we’ll have a PERMANENT replacement for Saudi/Muslim oil, without destroying the environment. That’s the smart play — for foreign policy, environmental, & long-term economic reasons. But it remains to be seen whether we’ll ever have political leaders far-sighted enough, and independent enough from oil companies, to do the right thing.
Frank Anderson says
S.K. you really need to do a lot of reading and talking with a real engineer and accountant. It takes energy to make hydrogen, to compress or liquify it, to transport and store it, to deliver it to a vehicle or plant, and finally to use it. EVERY step is inefficient, with some measure of loss compared to the energy ultimately available for productive use. I had a friend a long time ago who was entranced with the prospect of a hydrogen fueled car so he could drive his 50 or so miles a week. He was retired with a lot of money earned and coming in. So he didn’t care what it cost, even if it was 50 times the cost of present fuels. He wanted hydrogen. There is no free lunch. Every source involves costs and benefits. As long as uninformed people are taken by fads, and fail to do honest comparisons, we will be screwed by shysters and con artists as they rob resources away from the analytically better options.
Savvy Kafir says
Frank — Hydrogen can be produced from water via electrolysis — a process that can be powered via solar energy or wind power. And the only emission from a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle is water vapor. The potential advantages are enormous — and the only way to make a hydrogen infrastructure efficient & affordable is to invest in developing the technology and begin building & using that infrastructure. Then it will become more & more efficient and affordable, just as computer technology has.
Or we can continue to rely upon fossil fuels — which are guaranteed to run out at some point — until that results in environmental and economic disaster.
If everyone had decided in the 1950s that computers were just too inefficient and expensive to be practical, we wouldn’t have powerful and affordable laptops, tablets, and smart phones today.
Frank Anderson says
S.K. you have no concept of the cost both financial and environmental of solar and wind energy. You also have no idea of how much energy input at that cost is needed to produce useful energy. Solar and wind cost, not considering the disposal and retirement costs of the solar panels and wind turbines, about 3 times nuclear, which is between 2 and 3 times coal, which presently is about 1.5 times the cost of natural gas for generating the electricity to break water into hydrogen and oxygen. Ignorance may be bliss. But hopefully enough people will ask the right questions to prevent at least a few rapes of taxpayer and consumer fraud.
Savvy Kafir says
Frank — All of those technologies (hydrogen fuel cell, solar, & wind power) will become much more efficient and much more affordable when they are put to use on a larger scale, and as more R&D is done. That has generally been the trend with new technologies (computers, mobile phones, batteries, etc., etc.), and there is no reason to think this will be any different.
Frank Anderson says
S.K., unless the laws of thermodynamics change, which they have not since the Big Bang, there will not be a comparable increase in energy projects as there is in computer power. No matter how good is the process, output will always be less than input at every step. Each step’s inefficiency is multiplied on the products of the previous inefficiencies and by the products of the subsequent steps. They do not simply add; they multiply. The final cost depends of the combined inefficiencies and the total cost of each step. You can earn a Mechanical Engineering degree in 4 years if you don’t Co-Op or about 5 if you do. That would help understanding the issues.
Savvy Kafir says
Frank — The laws of thermodynamics do not preclude the development of efficient, cost-effective renewable energy sources such as hydrogen fuel cells.
That idea has a lot more to do with ideology than science.
When 1,000 senior auto industry executives were surveyed in 2017, 78% of them said they believe hydrogen fuel cell vehicles will be “the real breakthrough”. Those guys employ lots of engineers. All of those engineers have the sort of training you say
is necessary to understand the scientific realities involved here. And since those executives are motivated by the bottom line, rather than ideology, it seems unlikely that their engineer-vetted opinion is so absurd.
There is a wealth of scientific info available supporting the development of solar energy and wind power, as well as hydrogen, for anyone who is interested — as well as info on the various motives of the skeptics.
Frank Anderson says
S.K. I earned my 5-year BSME degree, with a 3.78/4 GPA in engineering subjects in 1972. I have been reading about “alternative energy” subjects most of my life; and before I could read my father and I would read about them n his Popular Science, Popular Mechanics, Mechanix Illustrated and other subscriptions every month. I have handled or advised approximately 2 Billion Dollars of “other people’s money” and advised hundreds of clients in handling their own. Any project that stands on its own as sound is a good investment. Any project that requires uninformed, uneducated, political hype in the absence of critical engineering, accounting and scholarly analysis is a waste.
I want to follow the basic law of economics which is to apply resources to the productive and profitable tasks and avoid those tasks which waste and are inefficient. I have no zeal for any particular choice; but through my work in the utility industry dating back to 1970, see the problems with all of them. “THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH.” Everything that has benefits also has costs. Few people ever discuss costs, and turn a blind eye and deaf ear toward them as they talk with zombie-like expressions about the benefits. I see the same expression on the faces of crowds in the Hitler era when attending Nazi rallies.
I compare the economic non-decisions being made on “alternative energy” with the forced decisions from the muslim conquest of Egypt, As Mark Gabriel wrote on page 52 of The Unfinished Battle (paraphrased), “If islam is such a great deal why were 4,000,000 Egyptians killed forcing it on Egypt.” If “alternative energy” is such a great deal why are taxpayers getting raped and tricked into buying it at outrageous cost?
What is the cost per delivered kilowatt-hour of wind and solar? There are 8766 hours in a year. How many of those hours are either of those sources going to produce anything? How can their sporadic output be stored for use when they do not produce? What will that cost? What activities will be priced out of existence because of the high cost? We need only to watch Germany today as it closes and retires its nuclear plants at twice the cost and twice the time as the cost to build them, and replaces those plants and others with “alternative energy”. Then, even if there is a nearly no-loss conversion of electricity to hydrogen, it must be compressed or liquified for transportation, delivered to the ultimate user and converted back either into motor fuel or electricity, at what final cost? I hope you know better than to believe that a hydrogen powered electric generating plant can produce more hydrogen than it consumes?
I considered converting my 1993 Honda Civic to Compressed Natural Gas. While wholesale natural gas costs 3 dollars per million BTU’s, at my home it costs 15 dollars. The compressor to fill the high pressure tank required for the car costs 3,000 dollars, and the conversion kit costs 7,000. A gallon of pure gasoline contains about, about, 133,000 BTU and costs now about 2.50 dollars. That is about 18.80 dollars per million BTU’s. Gasoline that has been adulterated with 10 percent ethyl alcohol contains 95 percent of the energy as pure gasoline. To take advantage of the much higher octane rating of natural gas, I would need to increase the compression ration of the engine from its present 9 to 1, to at least 12 to 1, at a cost of another 3,000 dollars. So by investing 13,000 dollars in a 1,000 car, which will not be insured by my insurance company for more than 1,000 dollars, I can save almost 4 dollars per million BTU’s, or 20 percent of my present fuel cost.
Where I used to drive 3,000 miles a month, I am now down to 3,000 miles per year because of retirement and deaths in my family. Would spending 13,000 dollars to save 20 percent of a 250 dollar per year fuel bill make sense? I don’t think so. Maybe you do? When is the most recent time you looked at numbers instead of hype and propaganda? For the sake of your wallet I wish you would start.
Savvy Kafir says
Frank – Congratulations on your BSME degree. I have an advanced degree in Bullshit Detection, earned via years of observing & interacting with Islam-friendly liberals who defend the “Religion of Peace” and vilify its critics … gun-hating liberals who refuse to examine the personal & societal benefits of being armed and the disadvantages of being unarmed … as well as conservative & libertarian ideologues who instinctively resist any & all environmental initiatives, aside from paying lip service to “conservation” … and religious people (and New Age types) who confidently embrace & promote their superstitions without ever taking an honest, objective look at the evidence, or applying logic & reason to their beliefs.
I have NO love of argumentation. For me, it is a tedious exercise that I try to avoid. But I’m part of a nearly-extinct breed in the politically-polarized, insanely-sectarian 21st Century. I’m an independent thinker. I don’t know why; I just am. I really don’t give a damn if a particular idea or agenda is embraced primarily by liberals & progressives or by conservatives & libertarians. I’m interested in truth, wherever I find it — and in trying to serve the greater good, no matter which side of the political divide that puts me, in dealing with various issues. As a result, I find myself butting heads with left-wingers on some issues and with right-wingers on others. (If I don’t consider an issue to be really important, I just let it go — because there are many other things I would rather be doing with my time than arguing or debating.)
In your arguments against renewable, eco-friendly energy, you are clearly coming at the issue from an ideological perspective, regardless of your training or career experience. You are ignoring the (very compelling) counter-evidence — the facts that support alternative energy; and you’re inflating the problems associated with it. You’re presenting straw man arguments that do not address the real issue. You’re dealing with outdated information. You’re not listening to the scientists & engineers currently developing cutting-edge technology, who tell us: “We already know how to do this; we already know how to overcome those problems.” You’re ignoring the top executives of auto-makers — who employ many highly-qualified scientists & engineers, and who are motivated by a simple desire to make money – who have decided that hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are the future. (Not just the short-term future, in which government incentives might result in more sales of these vehicles – but the long-term future.)
I’m not debating the pros & cons of converting a ’93 Honda Civic to Compressed Natural Gas in 2019. I’m addressing the advantages of developing renewable energy sources to the point where they are more efficient & more affordable than they currently are. Scientists & engineers, as well as executives in private industry, tell us that solar energy, wind power, and hydrogen fuel cell technology have already become far more efficient & affordable than they were in the recent past – and that they will continue to become more efficient & more affordable as they are put to use on larger scales, and as more money is invested in research & development – R&D that will be pursued by forward-thinking, profit-seeking corporations, with or without government support.
I agree that there is no free lunch. But to understand what various forms of energy actually cost us, we have to look at ALL of the costs involved. You’re not taking into account the massive environmental costs of mining, transporting, & burning fossil fuels. Or the massive health costs. At some point, those things equate to real money. You’re not taking into account the massive subsidies given to utilities, coal, & oil companies ($37 billion in 2016). Or the massive environmental & health risks involved with nuclear energy, should something get out of whack at a nuclear power plant due to natural disaster, human error, or (more likely) enemy action.
I’ve taken the time to respond to your comments in the hope that some readers might be encouraged to examine both sides of this issue, honestly & objectively. But I have NO illusions about converting you, Frank. You’re obviously too well-entrenched, and have too much invested in your position. And, ten or twenty years from now, there will be no need to continue this debate. The technologies & benefits of clean, renewable energy will be proven on such a large scale that skeptics like yourself will find themselves in the position of Lord Kelvin and the many other scientists & engineers who confidently declared that man would never fly in heavier-than-air machines – right up until December 17th, 1903, when a couple of forward-thinking brothers proved them wrong.
Frank Anderson says
Savvy, you obviously know more than I do after nearly 70 years of reading, research and practice. Why don’t you follow the Wright Brothers and make an economical alternative energy project work? Some years ago a friend asked me to set up his machines knowing that I had been using similar machines since I was a teenager. I continued using and improving those machines for now more than a decade. Now they will do easily in hours what used to require HARD days because of the improvements I conceived, designed and made. If I can do that you can do better, and I will buy your economical alternative energy product when it becomes available without subsidy, because it makes sense. For the good of all, GO FOR IT!
BTW, I think we agree on other subjects and I compliment you on your knowledge of islam.
J D.S says
Saudi Arabia and it’s leaders need to be shunned by all who invest in human rights…There is now and never has been any human rights in any nation under islam and the sooner the west turns it’s backside to those nations the sooner the west will regain its rightful place in the world..
gravenimage says
+1
Barry says
It is now time to ban all transport of Saudi oil. I am well aware of the difficulties but that is what they are banking on. We, the civilised part of the world, could hold all financial transactions in escrow and only bleed out a little at a time.
Why isn’t there a BDS movement on Saudi Arabia ?
mortimer says
Right on, Barry. Stop buying their oil. No more Soddy Barbaria and no more exporting Salafism.
Kay L. Sellati says
We have 500 years of oil under Texas the heck with Saudi let then eat their oil
gravenimage says
Edward, Kay never said any such thing. Why pretend that she did?
One can both oppose Muslims flooding into the US *and* work for energy independence. These things are by no means contradictory.
gravenimage says
Saying that the West has oil and does not need to rely on Saudi Arabia is not, of course, saying that we should ignore Muslim incursions into America or the rest of the West.
CogitoErgoSum says
Well, here we some men who were creating mischief in the land. What would be the moderate position to take in this case according to Quran 5:33? I would say exile from the land but the Saudis will choose to take the extreme approach of killing the offenders. I guess a moderate Muslim would choose just cutting off an arm and a leg from opposite sides.
Westman says
Muhammad Bin Salman’s regime is defined by the assassination of Jamal Khashoggi, outside of Saudi Arabia. It’s time for the US to stand aside and let Iran and Saudi Arabia fight over Mecca and then decide what to do with the victor. The leadership of both is rotting evil.
Demsci says
Many would be in favor of that, except that it is Iran, and not Saudi Arabia, that is, or was, before the JCPOA, trying to develop both nuclear weapons and the missiles capable of delivering them as far as Europe and if they could, as far as America.
IMO it is technologically almost as dangerous as North Korea. And ideologically more. Whereas the North Koreans are atheists who can be deterred by Mutually Assured Destruction, just like the Soviet Union was, the ayatollahs believe in heaven after life. And it is feared that they could have the mentality of the suicide bomber, saying; “if the infidels die and we die, that is good, for then we will be instantly accepted in heaven”. “And the infidels go to hell”.
This fear of Iran acquiring a nuclear weapon along with very long range missiles (and they are very good with missiles already) and the resulting Iran-containment policy hangs like a millstone around America’s neck. In the past no new weapon was ever such a risk.
The nuclear weapons do seem to have the effect that on the whole and in many parts of the world War and war victims seem to diminish, but when war does come it can be so utterly disastrous. Perhaps to be likened to the impact of a meteorite on earth, by the way something that over the millennia has happened quite a few times, lastly in Tunguska, Siberia, in 1907, a huge blast.
christianblood says
Demsci
Iran is surrounded by enemies and puppet regimes that are dotted with dozens of U$ military bases and she has a right to self-defense to save guard its independence against the Evil Empire and its violent Wahhabi vassals!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=7&v=SFuyb3nimfY
Demsci says
CB, it is to be appreciated that you do answer posts, but always in a way that does not address fully what the poster is saying.
I said that it was a very scary risk to let Iran have a nuclear weapon.
That trumps concerns of international law that Iran has the right to self-defense, in which you otherwise are right.
But Democracies almost never fight among each other”, really. And it would be ludicrous to suggest that America is a new sort of “Assyria” or even “Mongols” intent on conquest.
So rationally speaking, not Iran, it’s ordinary citizens need self defense against America, nor the Wahhabists either, because government-wise the Saudi’s of course have no desire for conquest either. So you might say that the Saudi’s will use al Qaida against Iran. But that can never be a big decisive campaign which Iran cannot handle.
and America would not help Al Qaida, which is its mortal enemy (although you keep saying they cooperate).
Demsci says
What does need self-defense in Iran is a dictatorial regime, not chosen by its people.
And it needs this self-defense because it for 40 years now has had an ideological expansionist attitude.
So the Saudi’s and UAE and of course Israel have a much more valid right to self defense than Iran’s regime that has brought its predicament on itself.
The Nazi’s before and shortly after taking power proclaimed that they would exterminate the Jews, and they did it!
The Iranian mullahs and supporters each friday proclaim “death to Israel”, “death to America”. Are we not supposed to believe them?
Are they apes? Or children? Or adult humans who can be held accountable for such incitement’s to extermination?
christianblood says
Demsci
Saudi Arabia, the perpetrators of 9/11 attacks and the root cause of every single jihad attack everywhere in the globe is in the process of getting nuclear technology transferred from its U$ allies into its savage state! I imagine ISIS and Al-Qaeda armed with nuclear bombs! Saudi Arabia=ISIS!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2FKn4aMOoQ
gravenimage says
christianblood constantly posts antisemtic Muslim Rania Khalek to castigate the “filthy Infidels” here.
gravenimage says
The appalling Saudis are indeed a major backer of Jihad terror attacks, but the idea that they are behind all 35,000+ Jihad terror attacks everywhere in the world is of course absurd. christianblood like to pretend that the only problem with Islam is Saudi Arabia.
In contrast, he has lauded the horrors of Shari’ah in Iran–hanging gay people and stoning women to death–as praiseworthy “resistance” to American values.
christianblood says
Westman
Saudi Arabia, a fragile, tribal state filled with millions of ultra savage Salafi/Wahhabi jihadists, propped up by the U$, Israel and the West won’t survive a week on an Iranian attack!
Get this: Saudi Arabia and its allies, including the U$, Nato, Muslim Nato, Israel UAE and tens of thousands of muslim mercenaries, including ISIS and Al-Qaeda, armed, funded, guided by U$, Nato and Israel cannot defeat a punch of ragtag indigenous Shiite militia in Yemen known as “Houthis”.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeIpNzJhuO0
Demsci says
“Saudi Arabia, a fragile, tribal state filled with millions of ultra savage Salafi/Wahhabi jihadists, propped up by the U$, Israel and the West won’t survive a week on an Iranian attack!”
Equipment wise Saudi’s are so much better than the pathetic Iranians, with their obsolete material. But still, you might be right, because of some sort of mentality difference?
Well, good for the Democratic West, that the Saudi’s are terrified of the Iranians. We choose the lesser of 2 evils as our ally to our biggest, mortal, enemy; Iran.
Christian Blood, maybe western Democratic Nations have some of the faults and shortcomings you see, apparently with “roque politicians and secret services doing shady deals with the worst regimes, thugs, resulting in the killings of innocents”,
Maybe, but, CB, you can never argue that the Russians, Chinese and all the powerful dictatorial states now or even in the past are/ were better behaved.
The dictatorial states are/ were IMO behaving much worse.
And maybe you are an expert in comparing the bad deeds of nations, as all nations do them we can’t deny that the Western Democratic nations also do them,
but I am sure that on the positive statistics you will fail miserably when you want to show that the dictatorial states are better than the Democratic states, because on positive statistics Democratic states beat the Dictatorial ones with a big margin.
And one need look no further for proof for this than to assess where the refugees and economic migrants of the world flock too. Not to Russia, not to China, BUT to the Western Democratic Nations. Why is that, CB?
Oh, I know, you won’t answer properly, just send one more propagandistic RT video.
christianblood says
Demsci
Why then Saudi Arabia, backed by the US, France, UK, Israel, Muslim Nato, thousands of jihadist mercenaries as well as ISIS and Al-Qaeda with smart bombs, air refuelings and US and Western fighter jets piloted by Western mercenaries are unable to defeat a few thousand ragtag lightly armed Shiite militia known as Houthis? I have absolutely NO doubt Saudi Arabia with their U$ and Western armament and supported by global jihadists won’t stand a week before an Iranian army and its allied Shiite militias! They will be annihilated!
gravenimage says
I see that christianblood is *very* excited over the specter of his beloved Mullahs attacking.
Well, he has said before that the bloody Iranian Muslim thugs are the ‘most civilized people in the world’.
Demsci says
But when I hear the European allies and of course the Russians, Chinese, Turks helping Iran and opposing the Trump administration. Whereas IN the US the Democratic Party opposes Trump even on this policy, While I also know that opposition to a violent regime-change war is simply too big, as it is even with Trump himself and his allies a no-go-taboo, then I think:
Iran developing nuclear (delivering capability) is in the long term unstoppable and we might as well resign to it.
Our only change now lies in regime change I think. And already a few years it was revealed that Khamenei had terminal cancer. Dare we wish for him to die soon?!
gravenimage says
I don’t imagine Khamenei will be replaced by anyone better, Demsci.
gravenimage says
Saudi Arabia to execute three human rights activist scholars after Ramadan
………………….
Appalling–and we see how pious Muslim states use the term “terrorism”.
All civilized nations should cut ties with these bloody barbarians.
mortimer says
Reply to GI: Islam considers disagreement with Mohammed to be ‘terrorism’.
Kill Them… Fitna (disagreeing with Mohammed) is worse than killing’ – Koran 2: 191
Note: Fitna is a word from metallurgy that means ‘dross’ or ‘slag’ … what is left over after smelting pure metals.
This what Mohammedans think of when they use the word ‘Islamophobia’ … they think ‘FITNA’ … slag.
They also think ‘KUFR’ … wrong worship. Any disagreement with Mohammed is punished by death.
There is no freedom of expression in Islam.
gravenimage says
True, Mortimer. And I was not familiar with the origin of the term “Fitna”–you are right. Interesting.
Pank says
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HlptyGvlIY&bpctr=1558861373
Fitna the 2008 film by Dutch parliamentarian Geert Wilders explains it all.
gravenimage says
Pank, I know what Fitna is, and i have seen Geert Wilders fine film. I just meant I had been unfamiliar with the word’s roots.
Seth Gold says
Step outta line
The muhammadan come to take you away
Walter Sieruk says
Saudi Arabia must really hate the idea of the value of human rights . For example , there is no basic human rights for females in the Islamic kingdom of Saudi Arabia is a kingdom of callous brutal misogyny of the most heinously heartless kind there is.
An example, only a few years ago in Saudi Arabia a girls dorm caught of fire, the girls naturally rushed out of that dorm that was on fire . In their hast to escape the flames they forgot to take and put on their face veils.
Those Islamic state police of Saudi Arabia with this totally unreasonable and heartless Islamic mindset forced all the girls back into the dorm that was on fire. Only because they didn’t have their face veils. So all those girls did a horrible painful death .This is worse than tragic and sad, this is the murderous misogyny of the Islamic kingdom of Saudi Arabia.
LLetto says
This article proves that you care more about Moslims, than they do each other. God bless.
Walter Sieruk says
One example of how the Muslim kingdom of Saudi Arabia detest even the very concept of human rights is the it supports Islamic terrorism.
The Islamic kingdom of Saudi Arabia has not and will not spare any of its vast oil wealth as to use its financial resources to fund and promote the advancement of Islam by and through the jihad. By this it means both the stealth jihad and even the subtle support violent jihad.
As explained, for example in the book HOW ISLAM PLANS TO CHANGE THE WORLD by William Wagner. For on pages 109, 110. The reader is informed that “The Wall Street journal on April 15, 2003 published an article titled ‘In law Seminars, A Saudi Group Spreads Extremism.’ The article began by saying ‘In late February more than 300 young men from across Europe gathered for a weekend seminar on Islamic Law put on by Al-Waqf al-Islaami Foundation.’ The article went on to explain that the most famous graduates from the seminar were half a dozen members of the group of young men from Hamburg, Germany, who plotted the September 11, attacks. The language of the was Dutch, but ‘the message was imported from Saudi Arabia, via Saudi books and lecturers who taught a strict orthodox interpretation of Islam.’ “
Further on the very same page of 110 the information is given that “TIME MAGAZINE , in an article on Saudi Arabia: Inside the Kingdom,’ stated ‘Apart from channeling money to foundations that have assisted terrorist groups, Saudis have for years supported institutions abroad the propagate Wahhabism.’”
In addition to all this, in the book of the title of THE HISTORY OF JIHAD FROM MUHAMMAD TO ISIS, by Robert Spencer on pages 333 through 337.Mr Spencer provides valid information of the subject of “ The Saudi involvement in September 11.”
So with that Islamic regime of Saudi Arabia and its oil money support the different type of the jihad, both stealth and the violent kind, with its Islamic agenda advancement and spread , influence and infiltration of the Western nations ,this kingdom of Saudi Arabia is no friend at all of America or any other country of the West.
Walter Sieruk says
Saudi Arabia is not an innocent nation, ans has no regard for human rights when it comes to the subject of promoting Islamic terrorism by setting up Muslim brainwashing centers in which impressionable Muslim youth are thoroughly indoctrinated into the ways of Quran based jihad violence with much killing of people who are not Muslim for the advancement of Islam. As the Quran instructs, for example 2:191., 5:33. 9:5,111,112,123 47:4,89.
One scholar, Brigitte Gabriel, who is an from the Middle East had in her book with the title of THEY MUST BE STOPPED informs her readers on page 114. “Saudi Arabia is one of the leading financial contributors to Islamic terrorism worldwide. Part of that contribution is made by funding madrasas throughout the world and the brainwashing of Muslim children with intolerant teaching towards anything non-Muslim.”
Likewise, a former Muslim, Ibn Warraq, in his book which has the title of THE ISLAM IN ISLAMIC TERRORISM on page 353 reveals that “Saudi Arabia has spent millions on Islamic propaganda and on building madrassas.”
Further on the subject that there are Muslim mind control and mind programming places where Muslim males are thoroughly indoctrinated into the strong but blind and unquestioning faith in Koran with all non-watered down; hard core Islam with its militant jihad. Those places, “schools,” are called madrasas.
In those Islamic mind programming centers young Muslim male are ingrain in the mindset Koranic dogma of the use of violence and killing for the advancement of Islam. As the Koran instructs. As in, for example, in 2:191. 9:5, 123. 47:4. Many of those who of such center are so much damaged that they are literally dangerous to self and others. As seen many times in jihad suicide, homicide bombing/attacks. For the Koran instructs in 9:111. “The believers fight in Allah’s Cause, they slay and are slain, they kill and are killed.” Furthermore, those mind programming places also ingrain the outlandish absurd Koranic doctrine of a sex-filled paradise with many virgins, houris, in it for the Muslim male who dies fighting for the cause of Islam in the jihad. Such a strange doctrine of a houris filled- place in found in the Koran in 44:54. 55:56. 78:31.
Moreover, such Islamic mind programming centers are further explained about by the scholar Don Richardson in his book SECRETS OF THE KORAN which on pages 69,70. Informs the reader that “The world needs to be warned. At least forty million Muslim youth in the Muslim worlds’ religious schools, called madrasa, are avidly memorizing the entire Koran … These schools become breeding grounds for potential terrorists. When male students, isolated from family and friends in madrasa, reach puberty and their hormones are active, there are no girls to date. Instead, Muslim clerics easily shift to focusing the male student’s attention on Koranic verse that promises sex in heaven with dark-eyed houris. Students can only fantasize about martyrdom followed by the sexual release Muhammad promised. This is an unspeakably cruel brainwashing technique , and the Koran is its perfect guidebook.”
In short, Saudi Arabia is very guilty of promoting Islamic terrorism.
Savvy Kafir says
It is outrageous that the U.S. is allied with a nation as barbaric as Saudi Arabia. We should stop selling them weapons, stop allowing them to build mosques here, donate money to American universities, and invest in American businesses. And we should focus on developing hydrogen fuel cell technology and infrastructure so that we never have to buy their oil again — and without destroying our wilderness or poisoning our ground water via fracking.
gravenimage says
We don’t need their oil now, even without new technology.
Patriot2G says
Keep drilling in Alaska and start drilling off the coast of California. ??
Savvy Kafir says
Why is there so much resistance to alternative energy among conservatives? — even to proven technologies that offer major advantages? I really get the feeling that many conservatives reject green energy because they associate it with the hated liberals.
We all need to step away from the herd, reject groupthink, and examine each issue based on its own merits, following the evidence wherever it leads — without undue concern for the opinions of our fellow conservatives or liberals. That’s how a tree-hugging vegetarian like myself comes to the conclusion that guns and free speech are cool, and Islam and political correctness are not — no matter what my fellow Lefties say.
If more conservatives took that approach, many of them would abandon that knee-jerk resistance to alternative energy.
gravenimage says
I think a combination of oil from other sources and any alternative energy technology that actually works–like wind and solar–is good. We should not rely on Muslim sources. We don’t need to be held hostage.
John Allan says
And still the West does business with this backward excuse for a country.
Salome says
“They will be convicted and executed . . .” So they know the result of the trial before it’s started.
Joe says
I saw that, too. I suppose they don’t need many courts.
gravenimage says
Grimly true, Salome and Joe.
Wellington says
Saudi Arabia is disgusting but then the ENTIRE Islamic world is disgusting, only the degree of decrepitude functioning as a variable.
Gee, I wonder when christianblood will come along and, quite selectively yet one more time, excoriate America for relations with the putrid Islamic regime which is Saudi Arabia while fully exonerating Russia for its relations with the putrid Islamic regime which is Iran? Only a matter of time most likely.
christianblood says
Wellington
You are mistaken! Unlike America, Russia has normal diplomatic relations with Iran, not allied with it and don’t consider it as a puppet regime for Russia! Just to give you an example, the US has military basis in Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain, UAE, Kuwait, Oman, Jordan, Turkey and Afghanistan whereas Russia has no military basis in Iran because Iranian constitution would not allow that! Both Iran and Russia are sanctioned and demonized by the US empire and because of this, it is natural that they do cooperate where they can agree, like protecting the Syrian state from being taken-over by the US and Saudi-backed jihadists etc. As we speak, Wellington, the US is transferring nuclear technology to Saudi Arabia, its closest ally in the Arab/Muslim world so if Russia is an ally of Iran as you claim, why Russia doesn’t do the same and give its sophisticated nuclear technology to Iran???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2FKn4aMOoQ
Wellington says
Go to Hell, christianblood. I am sick of you and this is the LAST time I will respond to you.
christianblood says
Wellington
You raised the issue with me and I responded with the facts and obviously those facts pissed you off! You need to grow up, Wellington!
They say if you live in a house made of glass don’t throw stones at other people!
gravenimage says
christianblood has said before that enabling a nuclear Iran is indicative of “normal relations”. *Ugh*.
Ex-Muslim says
These Sheikhs are anything but moderate. Salman al-Ouda,for example, supported the Islamists in the Algerian Civil War. He also supports the jihadists of HTS in Syria. It’s a shame that you fell for the Qatari propaganda.
christianblood says
Ex-Muslim
US and Western globalists consider Saudi Arabia and its proxy jihadist groups like HTS, Al-nusra, FSA, Jeishal-Islam and many other similar groups as “moderates”. As we speak, US is even currently transferring nuclear technology to Saudi Arabia, which is not different from ISIS and guess when the Saudi jihadists, the same jihadists who pulled off 9/11 attacks get nukes from the US, what do you think they are going to do with it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ_3VhASrms
gravenimage says
christianblood keeps claiming that the US is giving the Saudis nuclear weapons–which as he knows is quite false. That does not prevent him from constantly posting this, though.
christianblood says
gravenimage
I am not ‘claiming’ it is a FACT that the US, especially under Trump is transferring nuclear technology to Saudi Arabia for money! You can’t run from the truth! The satanic, avaricious, oligarchic, dollar-worshiping U$ will no doubt give anything even to hell in exchange for money!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9O0uR03s7m4
gravenimage says
These are not nuclear weapons.
I think that aiding nuclear power is foolish, as well, as I have said before–but it is not the same as nuclear weapons. But this has not stopped christianblood from pretending that these are one and the same before.
Frank Anderson says
GI, please understand that everything depends on what happens to the spent fuel from a nuclear reactor. I have gone through the numbers based on what I learned working for 4 nuclear plants and 3 utilities, that the 20 tons of spent fuel that leaves the reactor on average every year contains enough Plutonium to make about 1 fission bomb, or trigger for a fusion bomb every week. The spent fuel in the US is stored at the plant for it to cool, and awaiting decisions to reprocess or bury as waste. Every nuclear power plant automatically produces Plutonium which is separated by chemistry, and is readily turned into either bombs or more fuel, because it like U-235 is fissionable. Natural uranium is about 99.3 percent non-fissionable U-238 and 0.7 percent fissionable U-235. The concentration of U-235 must be increased above 3 percent by removing U-238 for the use in “light water reactors”. For a time there were other designs that could use natural uranium, but still produced plutonium.
gravenimage says
Frank, I have noted that it is foolish and dangerous to give any nuclear information to Muslims.
But this is different from christianblood’s claim that the US is arming the Saudis with nuclear weapons.
Frank Anderson says
GI, because of the US open doors policy on college admissions, there is little or nothing secret about nuclear engineering. The technology is pretty well open to the world, as shown by Pakistan’s marketing to other countries after it developed nuclear weapons. It is a matter of how easily the resources are made available and who pays for them.
The US standard reactor designs, Boiling Water and Pressurized Water, have other designs competing. Because I am not familiar with many details of those other designs as I am from working with, in and about US plants, I can only speculate about much. But the fact remains, using low enriched Uranium fuel, about 3 percent fissionable U-235, produces in the ordinary course of generation, enough easily extracted Plutonium to make about a bomb a week from a Boiling water, or a bomb every 2 weeks from a Pressurized water reactor.
The US has had up to 100 commercial reactors in operation. There is an inventory of more than 30 years of spent fuel being stored at those sites. If reprocessed, 95 percent of what is being stored could be re-used, including the Plutonium, as fuel. The remaining waste would amount to about 2 cubic meters, a telephone booth, per year for each reactor and be “gone” from decay far faster than the spent fuel rods.
Anyone who believes that Iran does not have nuclear weapons now and knows how to make all they want is mistaken. It is only a matter of time for them to make all they want to have the catastrophic war they want to bring back the Twelfth Imam from “hiding”.
gravenimage says
Grimly true, Frank.
gravenimage says
Ex-Muslim–you may be right.there often are *no* good guys in these cases.
Certainly, Sheikh Salman al-Ouda regularly whitewashes Jihad.
This doesn’t make Saudi Arabia any better, though.
t. says
Thanks, Ex-Muslim, for the clarification. I really thought that they were totally peacefull and felt kind of sorry for them.
abad says
The most important move President Trump has not yet made:
Severing all relations with Saudi Arabia.
It needs to be done.
christianblood says
abad
+1
seabird says
“It needs to be done”
Abad, of course you’re right but with 100’s of billions of dollars up for grabs for weapons and nuclear power plants and competition from the Russians and Chinese to fill those orders too, it won’t be done under this administration.
It isn’t about oil anymore, it’s about weapons, nuclear power and the reliance on the USA
to service those technologies which translates to influence (and power) in the region.
Last time they beheaded/crucified 37 people, this time they’re only butchering 3, to some, that’s a sign of “moderation”.
mortimer says
The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is a family composed of two families 1) the ruling House of Saud and 2) the religious house of Wahhab. The two families are thoroughly intermarried so the religion of Salafist-Wahhabism is one with the Saudi state.
KSA is one of the MOST Islamic states in the world. If you want to see how Islam actually behaves in practice, look at KSA.
No FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION is tolerated. This is the CENSORSHIP that KSA is trying to export worldwide.
Wellington says
Well, mortimer, you reveal yourself again as a fount of knowledge about the Islamic world.
JW is fortunate to have you as a regular commenter. Take care, pal.
gravenimage says
Seconded re Mortimer.
christianblood says
Netanhyahu: “My evacuation of hundreds of Al-Qaeda “White Helmets” was an act of humanitarian gesture as requested by Trump and Trudeau”.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enMuPzxXoEk
gravenimage says
Another fake quote from christianblood attributed to a Jewish leader.
Why is he so shameless?
christianblood says
gravenimage
I am paraphrasing him! You can see him in his own words in the video above! He says exactly the same thing in a bit of a different words!
gravenimage says
Using double quote marks indicates an exact quote–and of course Netanyahu never says he was aiding Al-Qaeda.
This, like so much else from christianblood, was just intended to deceive.
Demsci says
I confirm the compliment to Mortimer by Wellington also. Over the years now I learned so much from him.
Might he be descended from the Mortimer family in England the forefather of who was lover of Queen Isabella, mother of Edward III, and a member of whom married with a descendant of Edward and so became an ancestor of the York dynasty?
Olli Hekkala says
Nice practice. I think they should also adapt some westerner methods like Electric chair or pike through ass. Just kidding.
na says
Sharing an incident not related to the above topic, Iran-Azerbaijan boarder mob attacked 15 years old Armenian student for a wrong answer. Jihad school teacher asked a question what is Ramadan . Armenian student replied that is a food festival. That insulted other students.
gravenimage says
na, if you are going to post these stories, please provide a link. I did a search and was unable to confirm this.
nava ass sarif says
that is normal incident there.
gravenimage says
It may well be, na–but most Anti-Jihadists here are looking for verifiable sources.
Nava ass serif says
that is normal incident there . not a wonder.
Nava ass serif says
?
Nava ass serif says
is it an old news? or gimmick? or kayfabe news? if true we need to publish asap.
Nava ass serif says
Hi na,
You are a narcissist . your thoughts are delusional. a paranoid. you are thinking all Muslims are terrorist. you are a pro-Chinese ,pan – american white nationalist. There are many Muslims I know, supporting and protecting Christians. Just 40 % are terrorist. But you think 60 % are peace lovers.
gravenimage says
What? As if 40% of Muslims being Jihadists would not be cause for concern…
Frank Anderson says
GI, I may be in a “world of my own” when I connect such estimates as 60 percent are peace loving and 30 percent are muslim in name only with Frankl’s “delusion of reprieve” to minimize and refuse to face the immediate danger.
gravenimage says
I agree, Frank–certainly, a majority of Muslims even in the West openly say they are pro-Shari’ah.
But even if it was “only” 40% of Muslims who are pro-Jihad, we would be in *deep* trouble.
Frank Anderson says
GI as long as there are any muslims, whether devout or not, who are part of the culture of death, we are in danger that will not end. Those who are not “devout” enough or in the right way will be dealt with in such a way that they will be examples to keep others in line.
gravenimage says
True, Frank.
E T says
Christianblood says “The satanic, avaricious ,oligarchic, dollar-worshipping US”, sounds like Ibby and his “Mad Devil Trump”.
CHRISTIANS AROUND THE WORLD ARE BEING SLAUTERED BY THE RELIGION OF PIECES. Stop making excuses for utter insanity.
gravenimage says
+1
Crusades Were Right says
Somebody needs to put THIS kind of information about Islam on those German beer-mats!
E T says
A great theme song for the Saudi Prince, Mohammed bin Salman, Undecided by Ella Fitzgerald. wink wink
thebigW says
Ella Akbar!
thebigW says
I don’t get why it’s so difficult for Jihad Watch community to just DISMISS OUT OF HAND any Muslim as being “moderate”. that’s ANY Muslim. There’s no need to “investigate” and “analyze”. Just BEING Muslim disqualifies them from being moderate. Why should we waste our time and energy scratchin’ our heads worryin’ over Muzzies? If anybody wants to promote that horsecrap, there’s a whole wide world out in the MS West where ya can do dat, but why HERE, for cryin out loud…???
ToBeFrank says
The Jews no longer stone people to death for adultery and homosexuality. They also don’t engage in other religious instructions as outlined in the Torah, which would be unacceptable now. So by your standard they are no longer Jews, just like there are no moderate Muslims.
Frank Anderson says
T.B.F., I think you are missing a major difference between Judaism and islam. To say the least, Judaism has changed (reformed) much in 3700 years. Islam imposes the death penalty for any attempt to reform its teachings.
My personal conclusion is that Jesus, taking on faith without further proof that he lived, was the first “well-known” Reform Jewish Rabbi, almost 1800 years before the present Reform movement started in Europe.
My Rabbi observed that many other Rabbis preceded Jesus in fighting the corrupt Priests in charge of the Temple, who were nothing more than collaborators with Rome.
There are almost as many different Judaism’s as there are Jews, 16,000,000 worldwide, most of whom have their own interpretations and goals for their lives. “Show me 3 Jews and I will show you at least 6 opinions.”
Islam has no such margin for individual choices. Any departure that offends any vigilante can lead to death or great bodily injury to the one who “insults” islam, and possibly even his family.
There is no corresponding punishment of Jews who convert out of Judaism. In some communities, such as the one I was part of for over 20 years, there developed an intolerance of realistic discussion of islam; meaning it was time for me to establish a community of one. I have never seen or heard in any Jewish congregation, service or event any call for violence or oppression such as are common in islam. To be muslim is to accept and support all its goals, whether practiced completely or actively at the moment or not. To leave islam is an act of great courage deserving the respect and full protection of all who wish to live in civilized peace.
ToBeFrank says
FA,
I think you are missing my point. People can choose to follow any or all parts of their religion. To say because you are a “Muslim” you can’t be a moderate, is to say you are not a real Jew if you don’t follow all aspects of the Torah.
What Islam prescribes Islam prescribes and it does not have anything to do with what an individual “Muslim” choose to take or leave…
Frank Anderson says
T.B.F., I think you fail to consider the teachings of islam, which have no counterpart in Judaism. I suggest that reading Bill Warner’s Trilogy, substituting his Abridged Koran, for his previous Simple Koran, might help you see that islam prohibits reform. Any “moderate” muslim is either an apostate, subject to the death penalty, or a liar practicing the encouraged lying whenever advantage can be obtained. Any true muslim apostate, a former muslim, is a person of courage who deserves full protection from the consequences prescribed by the “final, perfect, complete and unchangeable” teachings.
ToBeFrank says
FA,
I suggest you start to exhibit some thinking, instead of parroting.
Frank Anderson says
TBF, with all the education, experience and reading that I have done, I hardly need to parrot anybody about anything. That experience includes more than 20 years as an active part of the local Jewish community. In addition to reading and sharing comments here, I have read approximately 30 books from a variety of authors on the subject of islam and its teachings. With licenses to practice law and extensive experience in court presenting a number of novel, unusual issues, different, independent analysis and approaches are common to me. So who do you think I parrot?
ToBeFrank says
FA,
And with all of that you still don’t have an original thought. You are parroting incarnate. I too have extensive experience in court… so don’t flatter yourself and I know we are not all cut from the same cloth.
A little over two thousand years ago, according to the new testament, the Jews wanted to stone a woman for adultery until Jesus baffled them with a simple statement and their conscience convicted them.
You are parroting the if you are “Muslim” you can’t be a moderate “Muslim” crowd because there isn’t any such thing because of the edicts of the Quran.
Well, once again, you are not a real Jew if you don’t adhere to the edicts of the Torah.
The Jews can reform, but “individual Muslims” can’t in your bigoted way. By the way, I am not a “Muslim” or a “Jew.”
I am not going to waste any more time. After all, your accomplishments will path you on the back and that is all that matters.
Frank Anderson says
TBF, are you trying to be Frank or Forthright? In any event I see some serious gaps between what is written and practiced and what you write. Trying to insult me takes a lot more skill and knowledge than you display. Experts have tried to insult me without success. By your comments you are the “unknown drip under pressure” type of expert who cannot support a contention with facts, and must instead rely on insults and hot air. Islam is islam, quite the same as it has been for 1400 years. Judaism has changed much in many stages and steps over 3700 years.
gravenimage says
ToBeFrank, every mainstream school of Islamic jurisprudence condones violent Jihad against Infidels, as well as the imposition of brutal Shari’ah law. The Qur’an, Hadith, and Sira all preach the same. The “Prophet” Muhammed is considered the ideal man, and he practiced this violence.
Any “moderate” Muslims are under death threat, and do not have Muslim scholars backing them up. They are considered “heretics” or apostates.
For us to ignore this and pretend that the handful of reviled “moderate” Muslims are the norm is suicidal madness.
E T aka Elizabeth Thorne says
In 1987 I was asked to leave a mosque and not come back, that is when I started to read about Islam. I have read the Qur’an 3 times. I have lost a lot of friends for daring to say anything about Shari’ah law. I have been called many filthy names by left loons who no nothing about Shari’ah law. I have emailed so many politicians in Canada, and complained about the number of Imams spewing hate and asking why they voted for M_103–a motion I refer to as the “You shut your mouth motion”
Many Christians have been slaughtered in the name of the religion of Peace.
I was making a joke about bin Salman and the song Undecided, I am sure many people on this site know what a deceiver he is. You can burn yourself out watching the daily barrage of attacks worldwide, the bombings, the rapes, the horrific beatings, the absolute bullshit we are fed by the media, CAIR, Hamas, MSA, ISNA, MWL , IIIT, NAIT, DAR an-HIJRAH, ICNA. MWL, AMC, OLF and the politicians.
If you did not like my comment so be it but, I suggest you should lighten up. I am telling you in a nice way that “people like me” sometimes tell people like you to stick it.
Frank Anderson says
E.T., we have at least similar experience among groups who disappoint us. We expect we have at least some license to present and discuss our ideas without suffering the ultimate penalty of exclusion, “civil death”. But that is not the case. Tyrants cannot stand challenge. They know their ideas are so weak they cannot stand scrutiny and comparison. Regardless of cost, they want to remain in control of us and through us all that we control. In an environment where any change, reform, modification, “improvement” is prohibited on pain of exclusion, it is better, in my opinion, to exclude myself, thereby removing the waste of my time and resources to direct them to more productive use. I think the primary conclusion of Patrick McGoohan’s landmark series Prisoner is that when we understand that others seek to control us while pretending friendship it is time to move on to find real friends instead of settling for control as the price of companionship. (Second Mitzvah of 613, ‘It is not good for people to be alone.’) I’m sure we both continue to look. There are at least enough friends here that we continue. . .Best wishes.
Walter Sieruk says
The Islamic kingdom of Saudi Arabia in no friend of scholars who might think for themselves or is Saudi Arabia of any friends of any Western nation, Saudi Arabia is best defined as a kingdom of Islamic hate
As one Arab scholar who had lived in a Middle Eastern country, for many years revealed “Saudi madrassa notably teach hatred and condemnation of the West and non-Muslims” and “The Saudi Government also provides free textbooks to Islamic schools throughout the world . many of the Saudi- Issued textbook’s contain wording that encourages hatred and intolerance for non-Muslims.” [1]
Saudi Arabia in many ways is no better than Iran.
[1] THEY MUST BE STOPPED by Brigitte Gabriel, page 106
Walter Sieruk says
The Islamic kingdom of Saudi Arabia will not tolerate independent thought. .Furthermore Saudi Arabia will not spare any of its vast oil wealth as to use its financial resources to fund and promote the advancement of Islam by and through the jihad. By this it means both the stealth jihad and even the subtle support violent jihad.
As explained, for example in the book HOW ISLAM PLANS TO CHANGE THE WORLD by William Wagner. For on pages 109, 110. The reader is informed that “The Wall Street journal on April 15, 2003 published an article titled ‘In law Seminars, A Saudi Group Spreads Extremism.’ The article began by saying ‘In late February more than 300 young men from across Europe gathered for a weekend seminar on Islamic Law put on by Al-Waqf al-Islaami Foundation.’ The article went on to explain that the most famous graduates from the seminar were half a dozen members of the group of young men from Hamburg, Germany, who plotted the September 11, attacks. The language of the was Dutch, but ‘the message was imported from Saudi Arabia, via Saudi books and lecturers who taught a strict orthodox interpretation of Islam.’ “
Further on the very same page of 110 the information is given that “TIME MAGAZINE , in an article on Saudi Arabia: Inside the Kingdom,’ stated ‘Apart from channeling money to foundations that have assisted terrorist groups, Saudis have for years supported institutions abroad the propagate Wahhabism.’”
In addition to all this, in the book of the title of THE HISTORY OF JIHAD FROM MUHAMMAD TO ISIS, by Robert Spencer on pages 333 through 337.Mr Spencer provides valid information of the subject of “ The Saudi involvement in September 11.”
So with that Islamic regime of Saudi Arabia and its oil money support the different type of the jihad, both stealth and the violent kind, with its Islamic agenda advancement and spread , influence and infiltration of the Western nations ,this kingdom of Saudi Arabia is no friend at all of America or any other country of the West.
Walter Sieruk says
The Islamic kingdom of Saudi Arabia is a kingdom that hate independent thinkers a deadly extreme. Likewise Saudi Arabia is a kingdom of callous brutal misogyny of the most heinously heartless kind there is.
An example, only a few years ago in Saudi Arabia a girls dorm caught of fire, the girls naturally rushed out of that dorm that was on fire . In their hast to escape the flames they forgot to take and put on their face veils.
Those Islamic state police of Saudi Arabia with this totally unreasonable and heartless Islamic mindset forced all the girls back into the dorm that was on fire. Only because they didn’t have their face veils. So all those girls did a horrible painful death .This is worse than tragic and sad, this is the murderous misogyny of the Islamic kingdom of Saudi Arabia.
Walter Sieruk says
Saudi Arabia is not an innocent nation it will not even tolerate in independent thought from it’s own citizens. .as the above news report reveals. Moreover with Saudi Arabia it comes to the subject of supports and promotes Islamic terrorism by setting up Muslim brainwashing centers in which impressionable Muslim youth are thoroughly indoctrinated into the ways of Quran based jihad violence with much killing of people who are not Muslim for the advancement of Islam. As the Quran instructs, for example 2:191., 5:33. 9:5,111,112,123 47:4,89.
One scholar, Brigitte Gabriel, who is an from the Middle East had in her book with the title of THEY MUST BE STOPPED informs her readers on page 114. “Saudi Arabia is one of the leading financial contributors to Islamic terrorism worldwide. Part of that contribution is made by funding madrasas throughout the world and the brainwashing of Muslim children with intolerant teaching towards anything non-Muslim.”
Likewise, a former Muslim, Ibn Warraq, in his book which has the title of THE ISLAM IN ISLAMIC TERRORISM on page 353 reveals that “Saudi Arabia has spent millions on Islamic propaganda and on building madrassas.”
Further on the subject that there are Muslim mind control and mind programming places where Muslim males are thoroughly indoctrinated into the strong but blind and unquestioning faith in Koran with all non-watered down; hard core Islam with its militant jihad. Those places, “schools,” are called madrasas. In those Islamic mind programming centers young Muslim male are ingrain in the mindset Koranic dogma of the use of violence and killing for the advancement of Islam. As the Koran instructs. As in, for example, in 2:191. 9:5, 123. 47:4. Many of those who of such center are so much damaged that they are literally dangerous to self and others. As seen many times in jihad suicide, homicide bombing/attacks. For the Koran instructs in 9:111. “The believers fight in Allah’s Cause, they slay and are slain, they kill and are killed.” Furthermore, those mind programming places also ingrain the outlandish absurd Koranic doctrine of a sex-filled paradise with many virgins, houris, in it for the Muslim male who dies fighting for the cause of Islam in the jihad. Such a strange doctrine of a houris filled- place in found in the Koran in 44:54. 55:56. 78:31. Moreover, such Islamic mind programming centers are further explained about by the scholar Don Richardson in his book SECRETS OF THE KORAN which on pages 69,70. Informs the reader that “The world needs to be warned. At least forty million Muslim youth in the Muslim worlds’ religious schools, called madrasa, are avidly memorizing the entire Koran … These schools become breeding grounds for potential terrorists. When male students, isolated from family and friends in madrasa, reach puberty and their hormones are active, there are no girls to date. Instead, Muslim clerics easily shift to focusing the male student’s attention on Koranic verse that promises sex in heaven with dark-eyed houris. Students can only fantasize about martyrdom followed by the sexual release Muhammad promised. This is an unspeakably cruel brainwashing technique , and the Koran is its perfect guidebook.”
In short, Saudi Arabia is very guilty of tyranny and promoting Islamic terrorism