A Darlington church is coming under fire after offering to cover up crosses and allow Muslims to say prayers in its building. St Matthew and St Luke’s had initially invited members of the Muslim community for an event next month to mark Ramadan.
This is a demonstration of dhimmitude at its best, while Christians suffer the horrors of persecution across islamic states for their inferior and hated status. In a ray of hope…
Upon hearing about the event the Diocese of Durham intervened and told the church it must not hold Islamic prayers in the church building.
The church’s gaffe however was then glossed over and explained by the archbishop that the motivation was “from the position of integrity”.
Speaking to Premier, the Anglican Bishop of the Christian Episcopal Church in the UK said: “Clearly the motivation behind the event is very good. Anything that tries to get people together to understand each other and be good neighbors, is laudable and to be appreciated but it has to be done from a position of integrity.”
Quite the opposite. No amount of damage control can fix this one. In offering to “hide crosses”, the vicar demonstrated an appalling lack of integrity–most troubling as a church leader. He was inconsiderate of and insulting to congregants, ignorant of Islamic supremacist incursion into the UK, irreverent as a church leader and in complete violation of Canon law….
This is a legal position outlined in Canons B1/2/3 and B5 Section 3 where it states: ‘all forms of service used under this Canon shall be reverent and seemly and shall be neither contrary to, nor indicative of any departure from, the doctrine of the Church of England in any essential matter’.
“Durham church criticised for offering to cover crosses and host Muslim prayers”, by Marcus Jones, Premier UK (Thanks to The Religion of Peace), May 19, 2019:
A Darlington church is coming under fire after offering to cover up crosses and allow Muslims to say prayers in its building.
St Matthew and St Luke’s had initially invited members of the Muslim community for an event next month to mark Ramadan.
It also offered different rooms to allow segregated worship for men and women.
Upon hearing about the event the Diocese of Durham intervened and told the church it must not hold Islamic prayers in the church building.
Rt Rev Dr Gavin Ashenden, a former chaplain to the Queen, is one of many to speak out.
Speaking to Premier, the Anglican Bishop of the Christian Episcopal Church in the UK said: “Clearly the motivation behind the event is very good. Anything that tries to get people together to understand each other and be good neighbors, is laudable and to be appreciated but it has to be done from a position of integrity.
Bishop Gavin has welcomed the intervention by the diocese but says he hopes lessons are learnt.
“They realise that the vicar made a silly mistake, but I’m glad it happened because it was raises in the public eye some important issues which people need to work through,” he said. “Islam and Christianity are not Abrahamic cousins in Middle Eastern religion. They’re actually antithetic to each other.”
It’s understood the event will go ahead, but prayers will be said elsewhere.
In a statement to Premier, a spokesperson for the Diocese of Durham said: “While it is vital to build good interfaith relations, it is clear that an act of worship from a non-Christian faith tradition is not permitted within a consecrated Church of England building.
christianblood says
The satanic, pro-islamic secularized West is indeed Anti-Christ!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McSyDzqHBi4&feature=youtu.be
Indiana Tom says
Yeah, that is why they have sharia law in parts of Russia.
christianblood says
Indiana Tom
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi5ek0zrEzI
gravenimage says
christianblood wrote:
The satanic, pro-islamic secularized West is indeed Anti-Christ!
……………………..
Note that christianblood ignores the good people who spoke out against this awful proposal, as well as the Church officials who shut it down before it could take place.
Are they “Anti-Christ” as well? How does this even make sense?
Then he also ignores Indiana Tom’s mentioning that there is full Shari’ah law in parts of Russia–something that christianblood has actually *applauded*.
No matter how bad dhimmitude has become in parts of the West–and there is no doubt that it is a very serious issue–there is still *nothing* so bad as that here.
Most Christians have been driven out of Chechnya, and there is just a single Church that survives in the capital of Grozny. That Church was attacked in 2017 by zealous Muslims, killing three.
Lydia Church says
This is nothing less than denying Jesus in order to bow to satan.
NOTHING less!
But alas, that is what it has come to for so many.
And this bit of deception, which I will refute within brackets:
“Clearly the motivation behind the event is very good. [No, it is not good. It is promoting false religion, which is never good.] Anything that tries to get people together to understand each other and be good neighbors, is laudable and to be appreciated [No, again. Not ‘anything.’ The full denial of all things honoring the Biblical God is something they will set up in order to ‘bring all people together in unity,’ etc. bla bla bla. The end does not justify the means. I don’t care how good the end is. Some things are just an abomination and should not be done, no matter what. Honoring false gods and false religion is one of the things that should never be done. You don’t get to a better place from a worse place by doing bad, but by doing good and honoring God, who is perfectly capable of delivering. Oh ye of little faith!] but it has to be done from a position of integrity [This wasn’t one of them.].
This statement is true:
“Islam and Christianity are not Abrahamic cousins in Middle Eastern religion. They’re actually antithetic to each other.”
In a statement to Premier, a spokesperson for the Diocese of Durham said: “While it is vital to build good interfaith relations, [Oh really? Why? Let the muslims take a step in that direction then!] it is clear that an act of worship from a non-Christian faith tradition is not permitted within a consecrated Church of England building. [This is good and true, only that church is also apostate. It’s why the pilgrims came to America. This is yet another reason why it is apostate, what was just proposed.]
Oy!
CRUSADER says
Where does all this evil from Islam stem from?
FYI, as a poster on this blog, suggests it reaches as far as Ba’al.
BA’AL ==> AL-LAH
Wellington says
I watched the entire seven plus minutes of this video and agreed with almost all this woman said except for her contention that without Christianity proper morals or ethics would cease to exist. One can act ethically by invoking other religions like Judaism, Buddhism and Hinduism and also by the use of one’s reason alone as, for example, Aristotle did. Islam, of course, has a wretched and malevolent ethical system and modern secularism is not nearly so much wicked as it is just plain dumb.
But once again, no surprise, christianblood used yet another opportunity to bash the West and call it satanic. Anything for the cause, eh? The cause of course being the standard detestation by Russia of the West. Moreover, and as Indiana Tom has already mentioned, Russia has itself much to answer for in coddling Islam, what with Putin celebrating the opening of the largest mosque in Moscow, Patriarch Krill making the faux distinction between “radical Islam” and “Islam” and, even worse, allowing Sharia to exist in parts of the Russian Federation. There is also the matter of the coziness of Russia with Iran, which seeks the elimination of Israel and is the number one state sponsor of terror throughout the world. And let’s not forget Putin high-fiving a Saudi Prince.
There is much to criticize in the West today. Certainly many fools lead Western nations. Trudeau, May, Macron and Merkel come to mind and then there is that miserable excuse for a Pope, one Francis by name, but Russia can be faulted too on many scores, another one being the bullying of Eastern European nations (e.g., a cyber attack on Estonia and making threatening statements to Poland and Czechia were they to accept an extremely limited missile shield from the US, a missile shield designed to take out a rogue missile or two and not prevent a multi-hundred missile attack on said countries by Russia), the clearly illegal annexation of Crimea and making all kinds of trouble in Ukraine as well as attempting to interfere in Western elections, including here in America where there was certainly no collusion by the Trump campaign with Russia but where there were definitely attempts, thankfully inept, by Russia to interfere in the 2016 election process nonetheless. Then there are the furtive killings by Putin of those who oppose him and which even a timid leader like May has condemned. But notice that I and so many others do not, unlike christianblood, use virtually every opportunity when they post something at Jihad Watch to bash Russia. The vast majority of the time commenters say nothing about Russia and focus on Islam but christianblood is obsessed with bashing the West with almost every post of his and is also incapable of criticizing Russia for anything, contra so many here at JW who, like myself, are only too ready to point out Western errors.
This constant demonization of the West by christianblood has become nauseating and it is both cheap and wrong. I for one am heartily sick of it.
mummymovie says
Great post.
Further demonization and piling-on of the West only strengthens and emboldens its antithesis, and we all know what that is.
christianblood says
Wellington
I don’t know why you are associating my criticism of the West with Russia, Wellington? In the global scheme of things Russia cannot be compared to the US, the EU, and Nato. Russia is NOT the USSR and it has no ideological drive that the USSR had or the neo liberal imperialist agenda of the US, EU and its Nato allies currently have! Russia’s economy is little bigger than that of Spain and yes Russia has a powerful military but Russia cannot be compared to the movers and the shakers of the current liberal global order like the US, the EU and Nato allies so your constant argument of what about Russia is somewhat irrelevant.
Said that, I have absolutely NO problem of criticizing Russia if like the US, EU and Nato Russia has backed, armed, funded and trained islamic jihadists for decades in Afghanistan, Libya, Egypt, Bosnia, Kosovo, Yemen, Syria and even bombed Christian Serbs in support of muslim jihadists in the Balkans!
Furthermore, I would criticize Russia if Russia rejected Christianity and replaced it with fanatical secular liberalist worldview that promotes a culture of death, immorality, corruption and fanatical “LGBTQ” and feminist agenda, Islamism and political-correctness and exports all those satanical values to the rest of world in the guise of ‘democracy & human rights’. Don’t you all realize what the US and West are doing around the globe currently?
I know as secularized agnostics some of our friends here don’t understand or care those moral issues that I am talking about (1 Corinthians 2:14) but as a Christian I cannot ignore the fact that the US and the West are fanatically practicing and promoting very dangerous and ungodly moral relativist, pro-Islamist values and therefore my criticism against the US and the West while not applicable to Russia is 100% justified when it comes to the West.
As we speak, Russia is itself is surrounded, encircled by the US, EU and Nato forces that are constantly moving towards its Western borders, its economy is sanctioned to death and its leaders and government are constantly demonized by the incessant propaganda media of the Western liberal imperialist establishment!
As Saint Paul pointed out in the N.T. (…Our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms…) Eph 6:12
gravenimage says
Actually, christianblood regularly refuses to criticize Russia’s appeasing of Islam and even enabling of Jihad.
gravenimage says
Fine post, Wellington.
And what we’ve heard from Russian Orthodox Patriarch Kirill re Islam–he has actually *praised* its vile “morality”:
“Four Principles from Patriarch Kirill on Islam, Western Immorality, and Interfaith Dialogue”
The Moscow Patriarchate looks forward to continued dialogue and strengthened relations with Muslim leaders, especially given the rapid decline of morality in the West.
“It would be good if scholars could join the working group [of Russian Orthodox and Turkish Muslims], since it is very important to reflect together on what is going on with human civilization,” His Holiness said. “It is perfectly obvious that the Western civilization, the modern Western culture, has lost its ties with religion and that the Western world cannot be called Christian any more. Religious values are no longer present in social sphere. Such laws are being adopted that contradict God’s commandments and traditional morality.”
http://myocn.net/four-principles-patriarch-kirill-islam-western-immorality-interfaith-dialogue/
Patriarch Kirill is either ignorant of–or worse, *in favor of*–such Islamic “morality” as pedophilia, rape and sex slavery, the persecution of Christians and other non-Muslims, the imposition of brutal Shari’ah law, forced marriage, the murder of apostates and gay people, wife beating, and “Honor Killing” (a partial list).
Given–as noted–that parts of Russia are under Shari’ah law and masses more Muslims flooding into the rest of Russia, his being ignorant of this is far from certain.
He was also, of course, studiously ignoring the horrors of the Christian genocide in Turkey–the Armenian Genocide. There are, in fact, few Christians surviving there today.
Paul J says
Welcome to Russia Watch.
Jean (old) says
gravenimage,
Don’t feed the troll. Christianblood hates the West, but is not Russian, and should not by his antics spur you on to to attack Russia indisciminately. He is not representative of a typical Russian view of the West, which is generally positive. Trump, for instance, is quite popular among ordinary Russians. Lots of Trump merchandise is sold in the R. Federation. Not because of any sinister “collusion”, but because they recognize him as a patriot and respect that. Obama, on the other hand, was generally loathed.
After christianblood’s recent defense of marital rape, it is hard to see how he could possibly be a Christian; more likely a muslim troll who understands the importance of keeping Russia and the West permanently antagonized. The greatest threat to islamic dominance would be the uniting of the forces of Eastern and Western Christians. Don’t keep taking that bait.
Re: the Armenian genocide, Russia is the only country (apart from Armenia itself) I am aware of that made public commemoration ceremonies and exhibitions on a large-scale basis on the centenary of the genocide: http://hayernaysor.am/en/archives/99864
Because Armenia was part of the Soviet Union, many Armenians live in Russia today, and make much of the common Christian foundation of their old cultures.
Putin personally commemorated the genocide by a visit to the Armenian capital Yerevan: https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2015/04/23/moscows-armenian-community-marks-100th-anniversary-of-genocide-a46064
A quote from the above article:
“The State Duma adopted a resolution in 1995 condemning the “perpetrators of the extermination of Armenians” and declaring April 24 a day of remembrance for the victims of the genocide. More than 2,000 events are being held across 640 Russian cities to mark its 100th anniversary, according to Russia’s Union of Armenians.”
We should never be afraid to recognize each other’s positive efforts and build the bridge between Eastern and Western Christian nations. This is truly important.
CRUSADER says
***Smartphone users warned to be careful of the Antichrist
(- BBC News)
People’s dependence on smartphones and modern technology could bring about the coming of the Antichrist, the leader of the Russian Orthodox Church has warned.
Russian social media users largely responded with humour and scepticism, while some accused the Church of “serving the regime”.
Speaking to Russian state TV, Patriarch Kirill said smartphone users should be careful when using the “worldwide web of gadgets” because it represented “an opportunity to gain global control over mankind”.
“The Antichrist is the person who will be at the head of the worldwide web, controlling all of humankind,” he said.
“Every time you use your gadget, whether you like it or not, whether you turn on your location or not, somebody can find out exactly where you are, exactly what your interests are and exactly what you are scared of.”
“If not today, then tomorrow methods and technology could appear that will not just provide access to all information but will also allow the use of this information. “Do you imagine what power will be concentrated in the hands of those who gain knowledge about what is going on in the world? Such control from one place forebodes the coming of the Antichrist.”
Patriarch Kirill said his Church was not against “technological progress”, rather “the development of a system that is aimed at controlling a person’s identity”.
Patriarch Kirill is close to Russian president Vladimir Putin, who participates in big Church celebrations and has gone on pilgrimages to Mount Athos and other famous Orthodox sites. Many Russian Orthodox priests closely identify with President Putin’s nationalist agenda.
At a time when internet freedoms are increasingly restricted in Russia – and authorities are reportedly attempting to create an independent Russian internet – this closeness led some to accuse Patriarch Kirill of lending government policy divine authority.
“They ban international internet in Russia so that the Antichrist doesn’t come out of it,” one social media user remarked.
On Saturday, the Orthodox Church of Ukraine split from the Russian Church following centuries of Russian leadership. The move sparked a furious response in Moscow and deepened a split in the world wide Orthodox Church.
https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-46794556
Wellington says
Jean (old): Your sanguine take on Russians is quite arguably belied by a Levada Center poll just taken back in March of this year and as reported by many news outlets, for instance, Bloomberg, that 70% of Russians have a positive view of Stalin, who is one of the greatest mass murderers in history. Also, what do you think Poles, Estonians, Latvians, Lithuanians, Georgians, Czechs, Hungarians—it’s a long list indeed—think of Russians?
christianblood says
Jean (old)
Don’t join the hate! Many of these commenters would daily read Jihadwatch reporting on Western governments and institutions openly enabling islamists, like story in this thread of a UK church covering crosses and they wouldn’t lash out at Jihadwatch for reporting this but when I criticize the West for enabling islamists and hating Christians they would be irritated and call me names!
BTW, I said many, many times I am NOT Russian but they keep calling me a Russian. I think anyone who contradicts Western MSM’s politically-correct propaganda or speak the truth of the matter is called a “Russian” in the West today! I do agree all the good things you said about Russia and how they supported Eastern Orthodox Christians for centuries and still doing the same today even in the face of deeply pro-islamist U$ Nato that created two islamic states (Bosnia & Kosovo) in Eastern Europe and bombed Christians Serbs, killing thousands!
20 years anniversary of U$/Nato bombing of Serbia!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRW30Dy1IjE
christianblood says
Jean (old)
I sincerely believe that just like the Western “LGBTQ” degeneracy “marital rape” is Western feminist invention which does not exist outside of the Western liberal bubble and I don’t deserve your cheap labeling for a conviction that sincerely believe.
gravenimage says
Paul J wrote:
Welcome to Russia Watch.
………………..
Not so, Paul. I think that it is apropos to point out appeasement of Islam and enabling of Jihad wherever it happens–especially where some are denying it. How is this not appropriate?
christianblood says
Paul J
+1
gravenimage says
Jean (old) wrote:
gravenimage,
Don’t feed the troll. Christianblood hates the West, but is not Russian, and should not by his antics spur you on to to attack Russia indisciminately.
………………………….
Hi, Jean.
You are right about christianblood hating the West. I don’t know if christianblood is Russian or not; it is only recently that he has denied it. Certainly, he is a long time apologist for Russia and all things Russian.
And I am not attacking Russia indiscriminately–everything I noted is accurate, and does indeed touch on the threat of Jihad.
I think that *any* nations, in the West or anywhere else, is a bad idea.
More:
He is not representative of a typical Russian view of the West, which is generally positive. Trump, for instance, is quite popular among ordinary Russians. Lots of Trump merchandise is sold in the R. Federation. Not because of any sinister “collusion”, but because they recognize him as a patriot and respect that. Obama, on the other hand, was generally loathed.
………………………….
This is true–I never said that christianblood was typical of the Russian view–although antipathy towards the US and the rest of the West is more common there than I would like. 9/11 “Trutherism” is also rife. But this is, as I well know, happily far from universal there.
More:
After christianblood’s recent defense of marital rape, it is hard to see how he could possibly be a Christian; more likely a muslim troll who understands the importance of keeping Russia and the West permanently antagonized. The greatest threat to islamic dominance would be the uniting of the forces of Eastern and Western Christians. Don’t keep taking that bait.
………………………….
Jean, I doubt that christianblood is actually Muslim–although he is very Islamophilic in many ways, especially in his apologia for Islamic horrors like marital rape, child marriage, and the slaughter of gay people.
For any readers wondering about this, his apologia of the former is on this thread:
“Palestinian Fatwa: The Husband Has the Right to Enjoy His Wife Sexually At Any Time”
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2019/05/palestinian-fatwa-the-husband-has-the-right-to-enjoy-his-wife-sexually-at-any-time
He also says that God wants Muslims to conquer and destroy the West, which is deeply troubling.
More:
Re: the Armenian genocide, Russia is the only country (apart from Armenia itself) I am aware of that made public commemoration ceremonies and exhibitions on a large-scale basis on the centenary of the genocide: …
………………………….
This is true, and it to be applauded.
Also, the Armenians were the *only* people to put themselves under the Soviet yoke, at great cost to their leaders, many of whom were then arrested and murdered. Still, they knew it was apt to be less horrifying that out-and-out genocide at the hands of the Ottomans and their successors.
As for commemorations, there was also a US Senate resolution in 2014 condemning and commemorating the Armenian Genocide, Senate Resolution 410, describing it as an act of “elimination of the over 2,500-year presence of Armenians in their historic homeland”.
And here is my own city–San Francisco–its highest point on Mt. Davidson is marked with a 103-ft cross dedicated to the victims of the Armenian Genocide where yearly commemoration of the Armenian Genocide is held every April 24 (there is also a prayer service held every Easter). This is one of the tallest crosses in the world.
More:
Because Armenia was part of the Soviet Union, many Armenians live in Russia today, and make much of the common Christian foundation of their old cultures.
Putin personally commemorated the genocide by a visit to the Armenian capital Yerevan: …
A quote from the above article:
“The State Duma adopted a resolution in 1995 condemning the “perpetrators of the extermination of Armenians” and declaring April 24 a day of remembrance for the victims of the genocide. More than 2,000 events are being held across 640 Russian cities to mark its 100th anniversary, according to Russia’s Union of Armenians.”
We should never be afraid to recognize each other’s positive efforts and build the bridge between Eastern and Western Christian nations. This is truly important.
…………………………
This is a good thing, certainly.
One of the reasons that Russia’s increasing ties with Turkey are disturbing. As for the West, I think we should curt our ties with them and kick Turkey out of NATO.
gravenimage says
Notice that christianblood thinks that being opposed to marital rape is “degenerate”. *Ugh*.
christianblood says
gravenimage
I don’t believe there is such a thing as “marital rape” which is a recent Western feminist invention and you can’t ram it down my throat!
marc says
@christianblood said “I don’t believe there is such a thing as “marital rape” which is a recent Western feminist invention and you can’t ram it down my throat!”
his vileness truly knows no end.
gravenimage says
Of course christianblood believes that it is possible for a man to assault his wife and force her to have sex–he just doesn’t consider that a bad thing, and is enraged that anyone else does.
Jean (old) says
Wellington
I fail to see how Russians’ views on Stalin, whichever they may be, belie my impression of their positive views on the West and Trump in particular? The two things do not seem meaningfully connected.
Regarding Stalin, any positive attitude towards him mainly rests on the fact that he (rightly or wrongly) is credited with the victory over the invading nazis in WWII, an event playing a pivotal role in Russian national mythology.
(By the way, it would be quite interesting to see the result of a poll on Stalin in his home country, Georgia.)
I speak of ordinary people’s views. Politically speaking, there are more threads involved in the Stalin topic. This article provides some insight: https://foreignpolicy.com/2010/12/16/the-third-wave-of-russian-de-stalinization/
Poles, Estonians, Latvians, Lithuanians, Georgians, Czechs, Hungarians: People in said countries have many different views on Russians. More often positive than not, I’d say, if you lump all these, quite different, nations together and ask about Russians as a people. When it comes to politics, views differ, the entire spectrum is represented. Eastern Europeans understand one another’s motivations (not least the important religious component) and know each other’s past well; which makes a huge difference. It is simply not possible to reduce their attitudes to one another to bare imperial history.
Jean (old) says
christianblood
No hate. For instance, I find your comment from May 20, 2019 at 1:17 pm sober and well-written, asking some real questions. I enjoy reading such posts.
But I was shocked and appalled by your stance on marital rape. An open defence of such cruelty does shed doubt on your real faith and intentions. If you are indeed a Christian, perhaps you live in a part of the world where the message of Christianity has become mixed up with islamic standards? Beware such influence.
Of course sex taken by violence happens inside some marriages, just like other kinds of violence tragically do, up to and including murder. Humans are sinful creatures. However, a Christian should recognize a sin when he sees it, not mistake it for a “right”.
Sex taken by violence irrevocably destroys any future possibility of love or mutual respect in the relation. It will permanently seal the victim’s soul to the perpetrator, and doom both to an incurable loneliness. In that sense, it destroys the marriage itself. This is a spiritual fact and has nothing to do with feminism.
Christian marriage is in no way a license to commit any form of cruelty against a fellow creature. Quite the opposite – Christian marriage is a lesson in humility beyond almost any other.
Wellington says
Jean (old): That 70% of Russians view Staling favorably is indicative, I would argue, of just how much the Russians never learn. And I don’t think it is due only to Stalin prevailing over Hitler. There’s more to it than that and you should know this. The Russians don’t “get” freedom and want a strong authoritarian to rule them. They have qualities like courage and a fine artistic and intellectual tradition but their woeful understanding of the importance of freedom has retarded their development time and time again. What made America great above all factors is freedom and here the Russians are clueless. It is shameful, deeply shameful, that 70% of Russians view Stalin positively. What if Hitler had prevailed instead of Stalin (almost did) and 70% of Germans admired him? See my point. Mass murderers should NEVER be admired.
While I would not argue that the Eastern European view of Russians is uniform, in general the Russians are treated with great suspicion and are not liked speaking in the aggregate. One of the main, if not the main, reasons so many Eastern European nations wanted to join NATO was BECAUSE of Russia. Now they would have the greatest power in the world on their side against their greatest long-term foe (Germany possibly being excepted here historically but after WWII Germany essentially became neutered militarily and was no longer a threat).
As for many Russians having a positive view of Trump I think that is because he is a strong leader and, as I already mentioned, the Russians admire strength. Respecting a positive view of the West, I have a different take on it than you do. I think the Russians, like the Chinese (and others), admire what the West has accomplished in many areas, but they don’t admire the West for its traditional values, particularly its emphasis on freedom and which is why the West accomplished so much in the first place, beginning with ancient Greece. Victor Davis Hanson, the military historian, addresses this very point in his fine work, Carnage and Culture.
gravenimage says
Correction: “I think that *any* nations, in the West or anywhere else, is a bad idea” should have read “I think that *any* nations, in the West or anywhere else, appeasing Islam is a bad idea”.
gravenimage says
Jean, I think that Wellington makes some very good points that so many Russians admiring the appalling Stalin–a figure almost as evil as Hitler–is a disturbing thing.
I very much agree with you, though, about the corrosive effects of violence in a marriage–sexual violence perhaps most of all.
Jay says
England is lost! What could possible go wrong with this scenario?? PM Churchill is not resting easy today!
The unfettered Muslim invasion in England is destroying their soverignity, their identity and now their churches! Whoever set up this travesty, priest or bishop, should be removed immediately! England pays Muslims invaders welfare, housing, medical, etc and less than 5 % of them have jobs? They have brought horrific crime and terror attacks across England, disease, set up no- go zones and rape zones, and now they want the churches too! Wake up England before it’s too late! Their is no acclimation to English life style by these invaders! Save your soverignity and identity before it’s too late! PM Churchill is not here to save you from this insanity, as he saved you from Hitler and the Nazis.
God save the queen and England and soon!
Savvy Kafir says
If you want to see sanity & common sense restored to the UK, join Anne Marie Waters’ For Britain party and throw some $$$ their way — whether you’re British or not. Give a lot or a little, and help to spread the word.
Terry Gain says
Jay
God shouldn’t save the Queen. She has morally forfeited her position. The Queen won’t save England. The Royals have done absolutely nothing to prevent poor English girls from being raped by these barbarians. The Royals are useless. And Muslims are not invaders. They were welcomed into a country that have no pride in its heritage. And no clue about Islam.
Quick, cover the crosses, our Muslim Masters are coming to visit. Yes, it appears that England is headed for submission or civil war. Canada and the United States are not that far behind. When he was invited to speak at formerly Catholic Universities, Notre Dame and Georgetown, the great benefactor of the Muslim Brotherhood, the most overrated person in history, demanded that the crosses be covered. And the cowards who run those failed institutions complied and there was nary a word of complaint in the media.
Ecosse1314 says
Jay is an ignorant ranter who knows nothing about the UK ..not even the bit he constantly refers to.
James Lincoln says
Terry Gain says,
“Yes, it appears that England is headed for submission or civil war.”
Yes, that is correct.
As a sidebar, when I first read that sentence I quickly read it as England is “beheaded”.
I wonder why…
Wellington says
I agree with you, Terry, about the Queen and the Royal Family, whom I used to admire but no longer. They have said nothing as their nation has gone from a free country into a country far less than free.
And for all those who want to lecture me on the Queen’s role, per Bagehot et al., I say I know that role quite well, but it is time to challenge that role, even at the risk of the entire monarchy, because Britain is in serious trouble due to Muslim immigration and political correctness. Oh, we can’t have a constitutional crisis like that say those who can’t think outside the box. To which objection I would vigorously contend that Britain sorely needs a constitutional crisis because nothing else seems to be working.
gravenimage says
Agreed. Her father actually spoke out against the Fascist threat–the idea that she is prevented from doing the same re Islam is absurd.
Kay says
Good for the diocese.
gravenimage says
Hear, hear, Kay!
mummymovie says
Appalling demonstration of willing submission to islam.
Obviously, “they themselves feel subdued.”
Indiana Tom says
So this is not a church proclaiming the gospel of Jesus Christ.
CRUSADER says
CHRISLAM Exposed
http://www.tilproject.com/chrislam-exposed
Christian Pastor and former Muslim Shahram Hadian shares his journey of becoming a Christian, will expose the false teachings of “Chrislam,” and will uncover Chrislam’s growing and devastating implementation into our churches and missions both in America and oversees.
Shahram speaks around the nation with a heart to awaken America, and especially the church. As a former Muslim, he is deeply grieved over Christian pastors and missional leaders promoting this false gospel in their effort to be culturally sensitive to Muslims. Despite Chrislam’s proponents, Christians and Muslims do not worship the same God.
“You can not be a Muslim and a true follower of Jesus Christ. Chrislam not only endangers the hope of salvation for Muslims but threatens to lead many Christians astray from the truth of God’s Word.”
– Shahram Hadian
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJd6kPimijw#action=share
keya says
Let’s hope the Muslums would back off refuse to pray inside the church. Aren’t they supposed to hate any symbols of christianity.
gravenimage says
keya, Muslims regularly pray in Churches where they can, because this is preliminary to turning it into a Mosque. Muslims have seized Churches and turned them into Mosques many times before–the most notorious example is Hagia Sofia.
Looks like they won’t be getting the chance her, though–glad to hear it.
CRUSADER says
Hagia Irene today operates as a museum and concert hall.
(Former church in Constantinople, among three Hagia higher churches there.)
gravenimage says
True, CRUSADER. I have never been able to find out what happened to Hagia Dynamis.
Jean (old) says
keya
They have a belief that once an islamic prayer is said inside a temple, it belongs forever to Allah and they have a right to claim it as their own. Therefore, it is very important NEVER to allow their prayers inside churches (or buildings of other faiths). Every muslim knows exactly what it means when it happens. It puts a stamp on the place in their minds: “OURS”.
Similarly, a muslim graveyard is “forever” and may never be dug up or change from muslim to non-muslim ownership.
gravenimage says
Spot on, Jean.
John Allan says
If Muslims want to live in the UK, they accept everything that goes with it. If they don’t want to do that, they can always fu_k off to a Muslim country.
Terry Gain says
John Allan for King!!
CRUSADER says
Ah, will King John Allan resume the Crusades, and take back territories
which are still under terror?
ChrisFromCincinnati says
The Bishop nailed it: “Islam and Christianity are not Abrahamic cousins in Middle Eastern religion. They’re actually antithetic to each other.”
Besides – there are plenty of Christian Churches in the world where the crosses are already torn down and the icons desecrated that have been converted to mosques.
gravenimage says
Yes, Chris–this was *very heartening* to hear from Bishop Gavin.
Savvy Kafir says
What nice little dhimmis!
mummymovie says
One would think Christianity would be more appealing to Millenials, with all of its drama, pathos, tragic elements, bravery, and sympathy for the meek, poor & downtrodden, etc.; all of which might parallel their inclination toward virtue signaling, and such. But then again -setting aside the rapid advance of the global jihad and pervasive spread of primitive, barbaric, fundamentalist third world muslims around the globe with the global islamic hijra- how can they be expected to embrace anything, considering the readily available and around-the-clock access to everything and anything their whims may direct them toward at any given moment?
Think of the extent to which these problems we discuss here on a daily basis have been exacerbated, and in many cases caused by the cursed smartphones in everyone’s hands, that have them staring into the screen and instantly finding only things which are bound by the limits of their imaginations, no matter how vast or limited. These devices almost essentially erase the need to look outside or to others for anything; they diminish our capabilities to seek out anything successfully, to form meaningful relationships, and in fact even have conversations with others about the most basic things.
The hijra and global raiding of the West and the northern hemisphere has been facilitated greatly by the smartphone and the internet, for instance.
I used to think the “end times” crowd was nuts talking about the internet and so forth hastening the end of the world and/or Western Civilization, but not so much anymore.
Trouble is here without a doubt, but I still say the best hope the Counter-Jihad movement has is to offer comprehensive support to Muslims who desire to leave the brutally oppressive ideology of islam immediately when they arrive in our countries, and support safe alternatives for them to do so, besides simply having to return to ostracization and social shunning in their isolated no-go zone Muslim communities in our towns and cities. A legal consortium of C-J attorneys and specialists, or a reliable and impenetrable legal component to the movement also needs to spring up, and very soon.
CRUSADER says
The head of the Russian Orthodox Church says the data-gathering capacity of devices such as smartphones risks bringing humanity closer to the arrival of the Antichrist.
Patriarch Kirill said the church does not oppose technological progress but is concerned that “someone can know exactly where you are, know exactly what you are interested in, know exactly what you are afraid of” and that such information could be used for centralized control of the world.
“Control from one point is a foreshadowing of the coming of Antichrist, if we talk about the Christian view. Antichrist is the person who will be at the head of the world wide web that controls the entire human race,” he said.
David Longfellow says
Christians who are ashamed of the Cross aren’t Christians.
Terry Gain says
Agreed. And Barack Obama, who demanded that the crosses be covered when he spoke at Notre Dame and Georgetown, is obviously a fake Christian.
mummymovie says
Point is that the “information superhighway” and the availability of smartphones and new apps could be highly useful in terms of setting up support networks for muslims who wish to escape the stranglehold that islam has on their lives, because the apostasy death penalty is a hell of a clincher -in addition to the plethora of daily fear and shame that makes up the societal blanket of darkness islam casts over everything everywhere it goes; and is a big reason islam becomes anchored in communities around the globe, and spreads so quickly, despite the fact that clearly no human in their right mind would ever want to live under the yoke of this ideology.
With muslims several generations deep in the West now, a policy of expulsion or anything like that to drive islam out of the West and back to the stone age all together would never work. And it will never happen, not even as a result of civil war.
Support has to be available to apostates. Plain and simple.
And legal support has to be there and unabashedly so. This is huge. This also applies to the Counter-Jihad movement, in general: When is this going to happen? And why has nothing like this begun to materialize yet?
Terry Gain says
I agree that support for apostates must be available but two other things are also required. Firstly, apostasy customs should be mercilessly criticized as barbaric and secondly there needs to be a ban on further Muslim immigration.
gravenimage says
Agreed, Terry.
mummymovie says
In a perfect world, yes, of course. That’s the idea, innit? I agree with you entirely.
But apostate support networks are a realistic objective that can materialize from our side, (and will need to), whether or not the dream of Muslim immigration ending altogether ever comes true. (Unfortunately, the odds certainly seem stacked against that, at the moment, with Trump’s far cry “travel ban” being only temporary, and a Jeff Sessions having been so rudely shown the door.)
It’s a wonder many of the culturally-enriching “customs” of islam have not been officially condemned and outlawed in dhimmified former bastions of liberty and openness such as the US and the UK. Criticized, you say? Verbal espousal and condoning of the apostasy doctrine should be a severe violation of our law!!!
Let’s see what other islamic “customs” are incompatible with Western democracies, yet somehow in bizarre and incomprehensible contortions of the law are still given a pass: FGM comes to mind first and foremost. Polygamy? Triple talaq, etc. etc. etc. The list goes on.
Hence the necessity for the C-J legal consortium.
Thanks, Terry. I always appreciate your commentary
mummymovie says
The fact that these things are tolerated and made exceptions for shows just how far down the rabbit hole we’ve gone in the West with our islam experiment and mass importation of Muslims.
Creeping sharia is unfortunately very real.
James Lincoln says
Excellence exchange between mummymovie / Terry Gain. Lots of food for thought.
Technology, when used effectively, could provide a gateway / support for Muslim apostates.
Now if someone could create a secure Muslim apostate / anti-jihad Smartphone app…
CRUSADER says
Rainbow Railroad already does a partial escape route
for a certain type of Muslim apostate….
CRUSADER says
ACT for America tries to battle the legislation/legalistic aspect
of this counter-jihad fight….
http://www.ACTforAmerica.org
John Hawk says
This just in! The church will NOT be covering up its crosses so as not to offend Muslims. They will demolish the entire building instead.
mummymovie says
Yeah, they might as well just provide the gas and matches to the conquistadors.
LadyTess says
The “Church” today has become an adultress. She has turned from her future husband Jesus and has lain at the feet of different god. How on earth can our savior come for us when our gown is so soiled?
From ancient holidays still practiced despite their origins to appointing those who violate God’s natural order in positions of authority the “church” has been infiltrated by the wicked one.Teachings contrary to our savior of wealth and prosperity to New Age doctrine.
No many will become “vomit” and will be rejected.
I pray all who seek truth despite the persecution of fellow believers.
Seek the LORD, all you humble of the land, you who do what he commands. Seek righteousness, seek humility; perhaps you will be sheltered on the day of the LORD’s anger.Zeph 2:3
Raja says
Lady Tess, Your comment is the best I could see in these times of misplaced compassion for would be murderers, rapists and genocidal and marauding Muslims.
I am at loss for words as this stupid and unchristian attitude and actions of so called churches. These Church building deserve to be sold to Muslims or even razed because Christianity is having a totally false pride centered around the “churches”
We sure can hope the Church as envisaged by Christ and his disciples will grow and flourish and Satan found in Islam will be destroyed for ever. Amen
Jesus referred to the Church as Kingdom of Heaven.
Mark 9:1
And Jesus was saying to them, “Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God after it has come with power.”
Luke 9:27
27 “But I say to you truthfully, there are some of those standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God.”
Matthew 16:28
28 “Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”
To conclude: The people of Jesus’ time did see the Church being established as they are no longer alive by any stretch of imagination.
Jesus kept preaching: The kingdom of God is at hand *around the corner*
We also find that:
46 Day by day continuing with one mind in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they were taking their meals together with gladness and sincerity of heart,
47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved. See Acts 2:46, 47
CRUSADER says
Ravi Zacharias: Q&A:
Why Does the Path to Heaven Seem So Narrow?
Truth by definition will always be restrictive and distinctive.
“Answering the Biggest Objections to Christianity,” a live Q&A
with author and scholar Dr. Ravi Zacharias….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V06abnj–LE
Spiro says
If you don’t confess me before men I will not confess you before the father
So covering crosses is deining Christ
These Christians are in deep trouble from what I read in the bible of course maybe they know better
What do you think
gravenimage says
UK: Church offers to cover up crosses, host Ramadan prayers
……………………………
*Appalling* dhimmitude*.
Two good things, though–the the church “came under fire” for this, and the diocese told them they must not hold Islamic prayers in the church building.
FYI says
Just so the naive,dhimmiwit “Christians”{catholic and protestant} know..
And hopefully will WAKE UP….
the koran CURSES CHRISTIANS for believing in Jesus Christ k9:30
the koran denies Christ k4:157{it was somebody else who was crucified;Sarles,a Jesus look alike}
the koran tells muslims NOT to in believe the Holy Spirit k4:171{one of the “3”:”It is better for you” says Al lah}
{to deny the Holy Spirit is to DENY God’s Wisdom and so muslims are told to remain in ignorance and follow the pagan Arab god al Lah instead}
Al Lah is NOT the Judeo-Christian Biblical God
Al Lah k3:54 is “the BEST of deceivers”
And if you want PROOF that islam is the religion of antiChrist..
1.Sahih Muslim vol 5 hadith #5611 Al lah’s GREATEST ENEMY is a man called MALIK AL AMLAK
{A title given only to Jesus Christ Revs 19 v 16:muslims will deny this..}
2. The 2nd chief commandment is contradicted by k5:51
“Oh ye who believe!Take not the Jews and christians for friends.They are friends to one another”
Thus there is no Golden Rule,no “Love thy Neighbor” in islam.And mass islamic immigration cannot result in social harmony in the West as islam is antisocial{intolerant to all that which is non-islamic and all those who are non-muslims,the Kuffar}
3 Instead of a Doctrine of Love in christianity,in islam there is a Doctrine of Hate{Al walaa wal baraa}
4 The warped,immoral,commandment-of-God violating teachings of Al lah’s Book Of Errors,the koran DO NOT conform to the Exodus 20{“ten”}laws and predictably there are no 2 chief commandments found in islam
See for yourself:Al lah is OK with murdering infidels,stealing from infidels,adultery with enslaved women,lying:No where in the koran is the importance of OBEYING God’s official Commandments emphasised.
5 The dawa folk will use lies and deception to ensnare Christians using this in particular: a claim that Jesus says he was a prophet of al lah.Firstly,isa in the koran is a muslim{like Moses and Abraham are muslims}and definitely not Jewish{as Al lah is violently antiesemitic k2:65} and secondly, the alleged statement does not even come from an adult:it comes from a TALKING INFANT IN A CRIB {see k19:23-30}
CRUSADER says
Religion of Peace: A Brief History of Islam
– Brigitte Gabriel (ACT for America)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aACpy7fLjFo
gravenimage says
Thanks for the link.
Mark says
Why would you invite the spawn of satan to pray in your house of worship?
CogitoErgoSum says
Anyone who believes that God does not lie can not possibly believe that the Allah of the Quran is the same as the Yahweh of the Bible. The Quran makes it clear that Allah does NOT have a son (see Quran 4:171). The Bible makes it clear the Jesus IS God’s Son (see Matthew 17:1-8, Mark 9:2-8, Luke 9:28-36 and 2 Peter 1-16-18). Any Christian who accepts the Quran as being the word of God accepts that either God is a liar or the Bible must be wrong. Such people may as well take down their crosses and give away their church because in effect they have rejected the message of Christ as the truth.
Lawrence says
It’s not a clash of civilizations if one side completely surrenders. Or, for that matter, if the other side is so uncivilized that it can’t be called a civilization.
Bella says
First you cover crosses, tolerate their covered faces, allow in hate preachers and build their mosques (barracks), allow them into your government, feed and clothe them because 80% of those imported don’t work. Won’t end well. Has to stop the moment thry step on infidels land.
rufusvondufus says
Methinks the British like the American Democrats are nothing but a bunch of jackasses.
ntesdorf says
If Muslims do not like crosses and pictures of Jesus, then they cab just lump it!
Spiro says
Or go home to where they came from
But that might require them to work for a living and we can’t have that
Rufolino says
Comments don’t seem to realise that this church thinks it is doing good on behalf of God.
It is expressing Christian “goodwill” and “generosity” towards its Moslem neighbours, and is granting them a space they haven’t got. How kind to outsiders this is.
They just haven’t a CLUE about the true nature of Islam. They have never heard about it and politicians and the media are never going to tell them.
Which is just how Islam wants it.
ploome says
premature victory..
the muslims will buy the church within this century, after Christian attendance at the church falls a little bit more
it’s happening all over Europe
and here also
It was three and a half years ago: Obama asked Georgetown University to cover over IHS, which is an abbreviation for Jesus derived from IHΣ, the first three letters of the name Jesus in Greek, while he was speaking there.
But yesterday Obama stood without hesitation under the Arabic for Allah at the Islamic Society of Baltimore.
see photo
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2016/02/03/obama-visits-mosque-islam-has-always-been-part-of-america/
Clemens says
For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 8 Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward.
9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; 11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.
2 John 7-11
If they don’t have Christ they are NOT privileged. They are NOT to be welcomed; they are NOT to be invited and NOT to be tolerated.
mortimer says
Let’s see how this canon law problem affects ‘INTEGRITY’ … “‘all forms of service used under this Canon shall be … neither contrary to, nor indicative of any departure from, the doctrine of the Church of England in any essential matter’.
So what ‘ESSENTIALS’ are we talking about ?? 1) the Trinity, 2) the Atonement, 3) the Resurrection, 4) the Divinity of Christ, 5) the crucifixion, 6) the actual death of Christ on the cross … ‘essentials’ like that.
Oh, THOSE essentials. Islamic worship is filled with curses directed against Jews and Christians and it is a direct attack on about 90% of Christian teachings.
What do you call someone with 10% integrity? A fraud, perhaps?
D3F1ANT says
This is why the CIVILIZED world is LOSING to the Islamists…
CRUSADER says
What about People Who Die Not Ever Hearing the Gospel?
What about people who die having never heard the gospel? Do they go to Heaven or to Hell? “The message that I see in the Bible is a message of a God who has done everything He can to make himself so revealing to us, but not so much that He is forced upon us,” Alycia Wood says.
So, read the Bible page by page, for yourself! Reach people in ways by which they can come to understand God….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60SS0XIFl2g
PABLO says
The Cross of Christ is never offensive to real Christians… but under the delusion of interfaith dialogue, so called Christian leaders are willing to offend the flock instead of the wolves.