Not a friend. Not an ally. Turkey should not be a member of NATO. The US alliance with Turkey is based on Cold War strategies that are now obsolete.
“Erdogan MOCKS US as he defies Trump to complete Russia missile purchase,” by Kumail Jaffer, Express, July 1, 2019 (thanks to Joshua):
TURKEY President Tayyip Erdogan took aim at the US after he confirmed the first delivery of Russian S-400 missiles would arrive within 10 days.
Mr Erdogan has been sparring with US President Donald Trump over the issue of S-400 missiles for a number of months. The White House’s threats have been swiftly dismissed by the Turkish President and to add insult to injury, Mr Erdogan publicly praised the Russian-made missiles, saying they were worth three times as much as a US-made Patriot missile. Following a tense meeting between the two at the G20 summit in Osaka, Mr Erdogan, in typical fashion, refused to mince his words.
The Turkish leader said: “One S-400 is worth three Patriots.
“If the conditions are even equal to the S-400 (deal), we would buy Patriots, but if they are not, then we have to think of our interests.”
The US attempted to sway Turkey by offering it Patriot missiles in place of the S-400 purchase, which Turkey agreed last year.
However, according to data compiled from the manufacturers, the S-400 appears to be far superior.
It can shoot targets travelling at twice the speed that the US-made missile can, as well being able to engage with double the targets.
Patriot missiles were also used to limited effect in the 1991 Gulf War, creating doubts over their practical use.
This will come as a huge victory for Erdogan, who, not long ago, came under immense US pressure to cancel the S-400 missile purchase.
Washington sees the S-400 missiles as incompatible with NATO systems and claims it leaves their F-35 fighter jets – which it currently supplies to Turkey – open to Russian subterfuge.
On a geopolitical level, the White House does not want to see any deepening of ties between Ankara and Moscow due to Turkey’s strategic status in the region.
As such, the US threatened to halt the F-35 programme – in which Turkey buy the jets and Washington trains Turkish pilots – and formally place sanctions on firms in the country.
However, Mr Erdogan was defiant in his actions as he believed the US would never punish its ally in the region, lest it grows ever closer to Russia as a result….
mortimer says
It’s the ideology of Islamism, stupid. Western people think that they can sway or influence countries like Turkey, Pakistan and others by commercial means and by appealing to common interests, completely ignoring that the political ideology leads these countries to bizarre and absurd self-destructiveness.
Without a mastery of Islamic teaching of jihadism, Islamism and Islamic apartheid, Western leaders are the blind leading the blind.
Ideological warfare against Islam is the only way to bring peace with those rage-filled, backward-looking states. There will be peace when ISLAMISM becomes ISLAM-ISN’T.
Christianblood says
Turkey is a member of Nato and Nato (North Atlantic Terrorist Organization) is a satanic, anti-Christian globalist organizations which spreads death, destruction and degeneracy! Islam and Western liberalism
are the greatest evils that the world has ever seen and they are united at the root! Islam represented by Saudi Arabia and Liberalism represented by the US are the two sides of the same satanic coin!
Watch them dance together! I call up on God to punish them both without mercy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f35TUFmCtYY
Angemon says
christianbloo posted:
“Turkey is a member of Nato”
I remember when you praised Turkey – it was around the time Putin bend to Erdogan after the shooting of the Russian plane…
“Islam and Western liberalism
are the greatest evils that the world has ever seen”
That includes your buddies in Hezbollah and Iran.
gravenimage says
christianblood wrote:
Watch them dance together! I call up on God to punish them both without mercy!
……………………….
Will christianblood also call on God to punish Putin for high-fiving the Saudi Prince?
https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2018/11/30/high-five-putin-saudi-crown-prince-mbs-sot-vpx.cnn
Of course not–he loves Russians playing footsie with Muslim tyrants.
I don’t like to see *anyone* foolish enough to think that these thugs are our allies.
BegrensEuropa! says
That’s the end of Turkey in NATO. And about time, too. Moslim Brotherhood supporting callphatist regimes have no place in the alliance. The whole affair bears some resemblance to the purchase of the “Basilica” cannon form a Hungarian or German master founder, with which the Turks were finally able to shoot a hole in the Theodosian walls enabling them to conquer (sack, rape and plunder) Constantinople in 1453. The question is where they intend to sack, rape and plunder this time. Cyprus? Northern Iraq? Other non-NATO places where gas and oil are in the offing? Bad news for Kurds and Cypriots for sure.
CRUSADER says
Trump: Muslims must confront ‘Islamic terror’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZcjjx6qHAQ
GreekEmpress says
Bergen’sEuropa!
Your comment really struck a chord with me. I worry Turkey will do the same thing again to Greece and Cyprus.
black adder says
European countries like Germany and The Netherlands have strong turkish minorities who could be mobilized in no time by the turkish leader. In this case they will not need “canons” to wreak havoc, if you know what I mean. They are the enemy within. Those who believe that countries in western Europe are out of their reach are very naive.
CRUSADER says
It’s the stupid ideology…..also.
Dan says
Turkey needs to be treated like it’s Thanksgiving year round.
I was anchored there for about three months and people I thought I could trust, straight up, bald faced lied right in mine, about some missing boat parts they had stolen from the marina shop and tried to sell off.
I spent about three years sailing from Australia back to North America, and every single Muslim country we passed or entered, if we weren’t attacked, hounded or chased by pirates off shore, we were conned, lied to and cheated by them a-shore.
And that was twenty years ago, when I was actually a “liberal” enough conservative to believe every Joe Blow in the world actually DOES want to just make a decent living and sing kumbya.
And that was twenty years ago.
Still love sailing and traveling, and spent ’09 to ’12 along the eastern U.S. and Central American coast lines, and even after being in the Honduras when Zeleya was trying to pull that “El Presidente for Life” crap, you couldn’t drag me back to a Muslim country for all the gold in China.
The culture simply, does not, see Judeo-Christian thinking as anything but weak, and to be taken advantage of.
CRUSADER says
Turkey nearly got carved up by Orthodox Christian Greeks taking back their stolen lands, but 100 years ago the young turks inspired by Ataturk ravaged the Greek settlements and performed many atrocities upon them.
The movie, “The Promise”, illustrates what the Turks did to the Armenians, also…
CRUSADER says
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnwgMYeaqr4
No quarter says
Dan that is the mandate of the koran, to slowly but surely overtake inch by inch. Resist and counter foot by foot. Do not be P C. Say what you want be free in your own land.
Dan says
I just wish people here would actually LIVE in one of these muslim countries. They’re actually worse than communist countries, when it comes to failure rates, because at least the communist ones only really start raping, torturing and killing people at the end.
In every Muslim country I know of, Turkey included, that’s just an ordinary day.
If it wasn’t, then MOST of the new so called refugees would be kicking the s**t out of the supposedly “few” radicals for giving the rest a bad name.
gravenimage says
Dan, I’m glad nothing worse happened to you in Muslim countries.
seabird says
Recently, Pres. Trump said that Turkey was being treated “unfairly” in the dispute.
He’s laying the groundwork for a reversal of policy or capitulation and acceptance of the S-400 purchase it would seem to me.
There are too many Nato bases (24 according to Global Research and 2 American bases) and too much money at stake in weapons contracts (100+ F-35’s alone) to let them go.
Bummer.
gravenimage says
Trump *did*–foolishly, I think–say that Turkey had been treated unfairly in a weapons deal they had negotiated with Obama. He was *not* lauding them buying Russia missiles.
As for “Global Research”, I would take what they say with a huge grain of salt. The site is run by a 9/11 Truther who denies that Jihad is a threat. He also said that the London Tube bombings were done by the British government and Mossad.
Angemon says
“As for “Global Research”, I would take what they say with a huge grain of salt. ”
As RationalWiki describes them:
Guy Forester says
DJT needs to wake up and smell the coffee. Xi, Kim, Putin, and Erdogan are all talking nice face to face and then when done with the PR stunts do things like launch missiles and otherwise display their disdain for the US and DJT. The guys selling the f-35 and training the Turks will send a delegation of lobbyists, CEO’s, and stockholder representatives to ensure that the contracts remain in place. Meanwhile, the corporate chronies will continue to insist that the Patriot is the best damn thing on earth, they really work, really, really do work to keep the contracts going.
Just like before WWII, we had the TBD Avenger, P-35, and Brewster Buffalo, all death traps for our pilots. Unfortunately, we do not have the same industrial capacity, nor the reserves of fit, hard working young males to send off to battle to die in overpriced and underperforming death traps as we did in WWII. A lot of really good men and women died or spent years in hell hole concentration camps, and bought the US time to rearm and prepare for a knock-down and drag-out war. With even two bit despots like Kim and the Ayatollah possessing ICBM/IRBM nuclear capable launch systems and delivery systems, we will not have the luxury of sitting for 2 years trying to rearm and 6 months to get up to speed to engage in battle. Korea also demonstrated what a 3rd rate country can do when we are not prepared to face another version of blitzkrieg.
It is time to stop the nonsense we have been deluded into maintaining for the last 30 or more years. We cannot send in troops in perpetuam to make 3rd world crap holes into another bastion of liberty and democracy. Nor does sending these places our factories and technology produce a free and vibrant middle class. Maintaining fair and balanced trade, cultural and educational exchange are one thing. Involving our selves in perpetual religious and political strife only makes us convenient targets stuck between implacable enemies that believe they are superior to us in every conceivable way. Never mind that most of these superior beings have no running water, flush toilets, or modern sanitation.
Lilith Wept says
As an American and a veteran I resent that America is selling any kind of military equipment to Turkey. It’s obvious that Erdogan is a megalomaniac, and if he had his way, he’d be another Hitler…..
(You watch and see if this doesn’t develop if he isn’t slapped down hard.He will end up starting a war…with some country, us or Israel)
I don’t support selling military hardware to any Moslem country. And if I were president I would have something g to say to Russia some selling them those misses.
We are allies with the wrong countries, and we sell the wrong things to the wrong people!
gravenimage says
Yes–Turkey is *no* ally of ours.
CRUSADER says
Who wants to visit Turkey anymore?
Visit the land of Israel, and become an ambassador of the Holy Land,
by telling folks what you witnessed in this transformed oasis…
People often say they will visit Israel when they are older,
but really there is no excuse to wait that long. Go now !!!
Here’s this about Israel!!!
===================
Jerusalem, Israel officially opened “Pilgrim’s Road,” road —
that Jesus is believed to have walked on in ancient Jerusalem….
Israel officially opened a stairway, known as “Pilgrim’s Road,” that Jesus is believed to have walked on in ancient Jerusalem as another place with the significance of “biblical proportions” to billions, especially for Judeo-Christian visitors to the Holy Land.
The City of David Foundation unveiled the 2,000-year-old main thoroughfare from Roman-era Jerusalem that it says served pilgrims ascending to the ancient Jewish Temple from the Pool of Siloam built by King Hezekiah. Until recently, it was hidden under a potato field and discovered by accident in 2004 after a pipe burst.
The Trump Administration celebrated the new unveiling that took place a little over a year after President Trump officially opened the U.S. embassy in Jerusalem with a ceremony Sunday attended by U.S. Ambassador to Israel David Friedman and three other visiting American ambassadors as well as Trump’s Mideast negotiator, Jason Greenblatt, and Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C.
“It brings the Bible back to life,” Friedman told Pete Hegseth, who has a special on “Fox Nation” about the newly discovered road.
“From a sewage pipe that burst 15 years ago came these excavations that resulted in the discovery of the Pool of Siloam, where all the Jewish pilgrims would come and cleanse themselves before ascending to the Temple and then an entire road, not a relic, not an antiquity, but an entire road intact from that pool ascending to the Temple.”
He added:
“People can literally immerse themselves in that environment, where the great biblical figures of the time where Jesus walked, we know that Jesus took this road. We know His visits to the Temple are well-documented. So you really have the opportunity to immerse yourself in ancient history in this incredible, stunning discovery.”
Friedman said as Americans celebrate the Fourth of July and look back at the Founding Fathers and the biblical language they infused in the United States’ founding documents, that the Word of God read by the Founders came from Jerusalem.
“When we think of America and its beginnings, well the physical beginnings we could think about Plymouth Rock or we could think about Valley Forge…but the spiritual underpinning, the bedrock of our principles as a nation, comes from Jerusalem,” Friedman added. “So this site is a heritage site for America as well as for Israel. It’s one of the best examples of that unbreakable bond, that ancient bond between the people of the United States and the people of Israel.”
Visitors will be able to “touch history” by walking in the footsteps of ancient pilgrims through a 350-yard stretch of tunnel along the ancient street that ran uphill to the Jewish temple, the City of David Foundation said.
“The discovery of the Pilgrimage Road was an unprecedented scientific feat of biblical proportions,” Doron Spielman, vice president of the City of David Foundation wrote in a Times of Israel op-ed. “Unlike most archaeological digs which begin from the ground down, this excavation was done subterraneously, beneath the hustle and bustle of modern Jerusalem. Dozens of fiber optic cable cameras were used to decipher where to excavate, while maps and diagrams made by archaeologists over the last century and a half paved the way forward.”
gravenimage says
+1
Angemon says
“Don’t punish me for breaking the rules or else I’ll break the rules”…
gravenimage says
Yep.
gravenimage says
Erdogan mocks US, defies Trump and confirms purchase of Russian missiles
Not a friend. Not an ally. Turkey should not be a member of NATO.
………………..
That sums it up.
Quazgaa says
Regardless of what may be said here or elsewhere, it will come to the point where islam and allah will get a good beating. Not saying this out of hatred, just noticing which way the world is heading.
sidney penny says
“Not a friend. Not an ally. Turkey should not be a member of NATO. The US alliance with Turkey is based on Cold War strategies that are now obsolete.”
Robert why are people not listening to you.?
Same applies to Pakistan.Not a friend .Not an ally..No USA money should be given to Pakistan.
gravenimage says
So true.
Marigold says
Erdogan is a dangerous troublemaker!
Theo says
Ok. I think it’s time the west go to war with all these muslim countries praying to satan. Turkey, Iran, Pakistan etc, and make an end to this horrible religion. God will prevail!
gravenimage says
It is Islam trying to wipe out the West–not vice versa.
Larry says
Phuck Turkey, we don’t need them. Trump should put them on the terrorist watch list.
seabird says
According to JPost, the first delivery of the S-400 will be this Sunday.
There is no mechanism in the NATO Charter for removing a NATO member.
Members who want to leave NATO can file a request to NATO for ending its membership and it takes 1 year for the request to be finalized.
Turkey was allowed into NATO as an exception to NATO policy (members are required to have freedom of speech, religion and a fair legal system, etc.).
Turkey has none of these.
I’m afraid we will hear initial outrage and then capitulation by the US.
Turks will argue that Greece, as a NATO member, has the S-300 system so it would be prejudicial to exclude Turkey for acquiring the S-400.
Greece, however, (through the “brilliance” of NATO), is not included in the F-35 program.
I hope I’m wrong about this pending flip-flop but NATO simply has too much infrastructure and money to lose by handing Turkey over to the Russians and Chinese.
Turkey never should have been allowed in NATO.
Anton Savarese says
This is Ilhan Omar’s pal as well..
‘Birds of a feather’ as they say..
lebel says
Why didn’t Jihadwatch report that Erdogan suffered a major setback recently?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48739256
It often seems like the reporting is skewed in favor of a certain agenda (The Muslims are coming and the sky is falling).
gravenimage says
This is actually good news, as far as it goes.
But it should come as no surprise that the appalling lebel is sneering at Jihad being a threat. Just ignore those 35,000+ Jihad terror attacks just since 9/11, you filthy Infidels…