My latest in PJ Media:
The occasionally courageous and insightful Senator Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) predicted Tuesday that if President Trump withdraws American troops from Afghanistan, “there will be another 9/11.” Sounding as tough as he ever does, Graham warned: “You may be tired of fighting radical Islam, but they’re not tired of fighting you.” But that’s not what getting out of Afghanistan would mean. If leaving American troops in Afghanistan until the end of time is the only way we can fight the global jihad, we’re done for.
Graham is ignoring the fact that we’re not really fighting “radical Islam” in Afghanistan as it is, and another 9/11 could happen while we are there. The former chief of NATO forces in Afghanistan, Stanley McChrystal, was asked late last year what the U.S. should do in Afghanistan now. Here is McChrystal’s response:
I don’t know. I wish I did … If we pull out and people like al-Qaeda go back, it’s unacceptable for any political administration in the [United States]. It would just be disastrous, and it would be a pain for us. If we put more troops in there and we fight forever, that’s not a good outcome either. I’m not sure what [is] the right answer. My best suggestion is to keep a limited number of forces there and just kind of muddle along and see what we can do.
McChrystal is not alone. The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Joseph Dunford, said much the same thing:
Were we not to put the pressure on Al-Qaeda, ISIS and other groups in the region we are putting on today, it is our assessment that, in a period of time their capability would reconstitute, and they have today the intent, and in the future, they would have the capability to do what we saw on 9/11.
Right. But the fact is that al-Qaeda and the Taliban and the Islamic State are in Afghanistan now, just biding their time until we leave. Are we going to stay there until the end of time, Senator Graham? Make Afghanistan the 51st state?
There is much more. Read the rest here.
Angemon says
Iraq 2.0
Infidel says
How about in Yemen, where AQAP is one of the combatants on the Saudi – and thereby, ‘our’ side? Although now, in South Yemen, another conflict has broken out b/w UAE backed vs Saudi backed militias, and this is apart from the war against the Houthis
Hugh must be ecstatic ?
Sabri S. says
Yes…like yesterday, before we blow you racist kaffirs away like we did in Lebanon
in 83…that seems to be the only thing that keeps you infidel imperialists at bay..
Allah u akbar. and get used to losing as the rise of Islam is here!!
gravenimage says
Sabri S. is thrilled about the Jihad destruction of Lebanon, which was formally the most civilized nation in the Middle East after Israel.
And now he is threatening all of us with this Muslim conquest. Typical Muslim thug.
Infidel says
That’s why I say – we should stay out of your countries, and just let you kill each other. Like you’re doing in Yemen.
Just make sure you don’t make it out of there
jayell says
I remember seeing a display of ‘before’ and ‘after’ pictures of Lebanon. They were a bit like ‘before’ and after’ pictures of London’s East End at the time of the Blitz. No doubt Sabri S thinks that’s something to be proud of. There’s a famous short story called ‘The Destructors’ by a well-known English author (can’t remember who) about an a gang of obnoxious under-age mini-thugs in post-war London who destroy an old man’s house on the edge of a bomb site just because they didn’t like him. The nasty little delinquent who leads the gang justifies his actions by declaring that ‘destruction is a form of creation’ – no doubt because that’s as much as he and his equally horrible, brainless little chums could manage. The author could no doubt re-write that story today and set it anywhere in the West, substituting a group of muslims for the boys, because Sabri S. seems to be postulating the same philosophy (sic). Just right for the disciples of the Great Allah to show how big they are! As they say, if you can’t build it, wreck it! Well done, Sabri S., you’re a credit to someone somewhere (can’t think who). Just stay a long way away from civilisation, there’s a good chap!
Angemon says
“ and get used to losing as the rise of Islam is here!!”
Is that you, Baghdad Bob?…
FYI says
@sabri S
k10:94 al LAH tells muhammed to consult those who… read the Bible.
So,what’s in the Bible?
Exodus 20:God’s official laws,……laws muslims NEVER obey since the koran teaches muslims its ok to violate them .
You didn’t know?
You didn’t know you are not supposed to go around murdering people?
God bless those military who died in Lebanon 83:they were there to actually help with security…
Only a demonic muslim terrorist would rejoice in the murders of these fellow human beings.
men who were part of a PEACEKEEPING FORCE.
You missed those essential 2 chief Laws of God{MISSING of course in islam}too.
Can your primitive brain ,your islamically warped soul actually understand that?
Of course not:That’s why you subscribe to the Godless murder cult of al LAH the pagan Arab god of islam:you actually prefer to be evil and to hide behind your “religion of peace ” lie.
As for the “rise of islam”:oh,you mean the Religion of antiChrist?
The religion of HATE AND WAR,of al walaa wal baraa,jihadism, and immoral islamic practises pretending to be moral.the greatest force of EVIL in the world today.
1,400 years of islamic IMPERIALISM.
1,400 years of raiding other countries,stealing from others,murdering others.
The forces of antiChrist are on the losing side:This is in the Bible..
A Book which even al LAH{k3:3} CONFIRMS as true..but you wouldn’t have know that since you hypocritical muslims never read it {certainly not properly or critically}
Even al LAH,your pagan Arab anti christ god{“The BEST of deceivers” k3;54} says you muslims are disgraceful hypocrites k4:142,always putting on a show to begulile allah and “to be seen by other men”:What hypocrites!
You islamic trolls provide a useful service:you show us the TRUE ugly face of islam and the demonic nature of the evil-justifying “devout” muslim apologists.
Shukran Gazilan for that.
gravenimage says
Sabri S. reveals the savagery of Islam.
Jule Bacal says
So you are thinking maybe if we just get out, there is no chance any group goes in to take over because Taliban will fight ISIL with Qatar/alQaeda/& all the other warlord gangs and then fight each other never having time/co-op to plan more for the Death to Israel-Death to America? But it had happened before so just leaving is a big risk. I wish Russia was partnered with us & China to just obliterate all of them and force Islam to admit the Qur’an was man made and time to leave it behind. They could ‘Find some Hidden Scripts” somewhere re-explaining the Real Islam and force all Muslims to follow a new plan unless they want the same treatment of obliteration.
gravenimage says
Unfortunately, Russia regularly appeases Islam.
Infidel says
One reason Russia has made some Muslim allies is that we refused to shift our foreign policy since the Cold War. Good example: post 9/11, we got 2 major military bases in Uzbekistan for our operations in Afghanistan. But a few years later, the US diplomatic corps was busy maligning Uzbekistan over its crackdown on Jihadists in the Ferghana Valley, so Tashkent shut those down. Similarly, in the 90s, during the Yeltsin era, the US was supportive of the Chechens against Moscow, and the Bosnians and Kosovars against the Serbs.
We have no one to blame but ourselves for our piss poor relationship w/ Moscow. I’m not sure that that’s just a Putin thing anymore, when the State Department is populated w/ either Reagan era conservative fossils, or Clinton-Obama SJWs who hate Russia due to its policies on gays
Angemon says
“One reason Russia has made some Muslim allies is that we refused to shift our foreign policy since the Cold War. ”
Russia’s ties with the muslim world go way back. The Arab armies that Israel soundly defeated were trained and armed by the Soviets. The idea of “Palestinians” as an specific Arab group came from the KGB. Airplane hijackings and state-sponsorship of terror? We have the USSR to thank for that.
“We have no one to blame but ourselves for our piss poor relationship w/ Moscow. I’m not sure that that’s just a Putin thing anymore,”
When Putin’s stance regarding the West is “look, the Westerners are coming to kill you, take your children and make them gay, and I’m the only one who can prevent it”, it is…
gravenimage says
True, Angemon. The Russians have often been playing footsie with Muslims for a long time now.
william carr says
When Obummer pulled out of Iraq we got ISIS and thousands died or were enslaved and tortured. Waht do you think will happen when you pull out of Afghanistan. The Islamists see US and West withdrawals as victories
Infidel says
Not our problem. Muslims have been killing each other since the 8th century. They can see the withdrawals as victories if they like, but others can prevent them from spreading. ISIS was a local problem in Iraq and Syria: it’s not their fault if Europe was stupid enough to throw open its lands to ‘refugees’ and ‘migrants’ from Syria, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, et al
Lets say that the Taliban returns to power there. Yeah, it will be hell for Afghans who don’t agree w/ them. That’s their problem, and maybe Pakistan’s. What we should do is add those countries to the list of countries in the Travel Ban, and go ahead. It’s not our business whether Afghan girls go to school. But we can and must prevent Afghans, Pakis and others like them who’re not here already from coming
Jule Bacal says
to big a risk for the World but we cannot do as we have. We need a real coalition of Russia, China and blast them all and force Islam to change its spots or else. I think that is the only way.
gravenimage says
Russia is enabling a nuclear Iran, and China regularly does business with Jihad terror states. I don’t think we can rely on either of these nations.
J D S says
If Muslims were just killing themselves that would be a great relief on the sane world but they are NOT just killing themselves….They kill indiscriminately, themselves as well as non Muslims,
Like the well educated Generals, I don’t know what’s the best thing to do, but I do know this…
No. matter if we stay in Afghanistan or pull out or leave a few military personnel, Islamic extremists will probably be with us till Gabriel blows his trumpet and Jesus separates the sheep from the goats.
We had a small window at the end of the Gulf War to really get the attention of Islamist (SOME WOULD CALL THEM RADICAL ISLAMIST) if, a big IF, all the sane nations, as a coalition if nations, not the UN, to establish world order in the mid east by letting all mid east nations know that the SANE part of the world was not going to allow islam to expand any further into the west …but NO!!! that would l d be un ,
acceptable because Islam is a religion and Muslims make up the religion so hands off.
The sane part of the world still has not defined RELIGION, has not changed laws pertaining religion ….(NO OTHER RELIGION IS AS MILITANT AS ISLAM) yet it is still classed with other sane religions so nothing is being done because Islam is a religion…but it is political also and that makes a BIG difference between it and r sane religions .. still NOTHING is being done…Lotsa lives lost though …To loose more blood or not too loose more blood….
THST IS THE QUESTION!
PRCS says
During Graham’s 2016 presidential bid, I paid a small fee to speak with him–publicly–by phone.
As he constantly referred to ‘radical Islam’ (and still does) I asked him to explain how that differs from the regular variety.
I couldn’t actually see him tap dancing, but his non-answer answer made clear that he actually was.
CRUSADER says
Most pols don’t have the testicles for this big job.
Pols with ‘em usually get marginalized.
So, even bigger testes are necessary!
Who cares about how small hands are…
James Lincoln says
PRCS,
Yes, there is no difference between radical Islam and regular, plain-vanilla Islam.
Sen. Graham is not stupid and probably knows this – but does not want to state it publicly. The mainstream media would take it to mean that he thinks that we are at war with all of Islam.
That being said, Islam is at war with us – but we are at war with only radical Islam – whatever that is…
Infidel says
Oh, no, he’s definitely stupid. Just look at his response to Trump’s 2015 suggestion after the San Bernardino massacre – to have a ‘Muslim Ban’. Ultimately, that morphed into what’s today the ‘Travel Ban’, but it needs to add a whole bunch of countries to it – Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Uzbekistan (where Saipov’s from), Kyrgyzstan (the Tsarnaevs), Kazakhstan (that ISIS instructor), Qatar and Turkey.
Since the election, unlike the other never-Trumpers like Jeff Flake or Ben Sass, he’s recognized that the public momentum is w/ Trump, and has made it a point not to look critical of him. But his disdain is barely hidden.
The person who has it right is Rand Paul, who supports Trump in pulling out of Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and not interfering in other wars either. The only thing he’s partially wrong on is Iran. But Rand Paul also doesn’t oppose blocking people from those countries that are a threat, which makes him very different from the likes of a Tulsi Gabbard
James Lincoln says
Infidel,
You made some good points, I’ll have to think this through.
KWJ says
Why did you leave out Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Tunisia, Libya, Algeria, Turkey. It’s mostly Palestinians, Tunisians and lesser other North Africans who joined ISIS. Somalia’s in the US join Al Shabab who are a version of al-Qaeda, Saudi Arabia, Qatar…
Tajikistan might be OK. Iran produces less terrorists to Western countries but rather spies.It’s hard to know what sleeper cells and how many in America, but we have them lurking around. God knows there are many in Europe and those migrants capable of being invited.
Anyhow, Afghanistan is a sinkhole. They’re mostly concerned with ruling, I mean ruining, Afghanistan once and for all. They are people who destroyed many schools. They are intellectual barbarians needing to exist in the opium trade…
Infidel says
To KWJ above
There is an existing list of countries in the Travel Ban. Iran, Libya, Syria, Yemen, Somalia, North Korea and Venezuela are on that list. (I actually don’t take the last 2 seriously, b’cos North Koreans or Venezuelans ain’t people who want to kill us, and their countries are on the list courtesy Kim and Maduro) So from your list, Syria and Libya are already there, and I DID mention Turkey.
What I did was add countries to the list. Started w/ Pakistan, Afghanistan and Bangladesh, as well as the central Asian countries I listed above, as well as Turkey and Qatar. I’m fine w/ adding Egypt, Tunisia and Algeria, since Egypt is a hotbed of Muslim Brotherhood support, and Sisi has limits to what he can do. The Tunisians and Algerians who are there in Europe are already a nuisance, so it makes sense to add the countries.
In the US, it was a hot potato to cast it as a Muslim ban, but the few countries in the list barely touch 10% of Muslims worldwide. Expanding the list of countries would stop the influx.
jewdog says
How about we stay in Afghanistan and impose a secular regime? After all, the last Islamic regime did preside over al-Qaeda which attacked us, so we would be quite justified.
I went to a meeting the other evening with Graham and he repeated the tired old cliche that the Islamic radicals were only a tiny minority of a tiny minority, that he was so impressed with the nice Afghans that he had gotten to know. You know, the usual naive blather. Presumably, eventually we will defeat the outliers and then all the genuine, moderate Muslims will emerge triumphant. Dream on, Senator.
Infidel says
No! Just no! That’s what 19 years of nation building has done, and during that, we helped them write a constitution that includes the death penalty for apostasy. Even while Sam Brownback is out there trying to persuade Sri Lanka, Burma and India to be more tolerant towards Muslims. The Sharansky Doctrine, which Bush endorsed, has been a disaster, and the reason is that Islam – and thereby Muslims – have never been about ‘live and let live’. Pull out, but leave the Taliban a memo – the next time something like 9/11 happens, we’ll level you.
It’s high time we recognize that it’s none of our business whether little girls in Afghanistan and Pakistan go to school or get married. Those people are not Americans, and it’s high time we stopped pretending that they are. Leave them alone, but in the meantime, add their countries to the Travel Ban list, so that they cannot come here! Also, start moving CENTCOM out of Qatar, and base it in Israel. Let countries that still must get their oil or gas from the Arabian Gulf deal w/ the shipping logistics through the Strait of Hormuz
jewdog says
“..we helped them write a constitution that includes the death penalty for apostasy”. Yes, which is why I suggested we impose a secular regime. But we won’t, so fuggedaboudit.
Avenger says
You are 100% correct Infidel. Isolate Islamic nations and let them destroy each other.
gravenimage says
Yes–we were largely safe from Jihad when the Muslim world was isolated.
PRCS says
he repeated the tired old cliche that the Islamic radicals were only a tiny minority of a tiny minority
+1
CRUSADER says
“What we should do is pull out and adopt a strategy modeled after the old containment strategy that was used in the Cold War. “
Certainly! Contain and confront Islam — and the Globalist/Leftist influencers.
We also have to be able to define and defend OUR VALUES while we designate and target our enemy if we are to win this whole trouble, overall. We keep missing that point, out of weird political-correctness.
(Did it make sense for Trump to remove Flynn and Bannon?)
This is a War of Ideology, as Sebastian Gorka and Waldo Phares have pointed out early on.
This is also a spiritual and mental war, which St Paul figured out long ago.
We need to heed the Bible more, not less.
Infidel says
Flynn was done in by the likes of Peter Strzok and Sally Yates, and that was the start of the sabotage of the foreign policy that Trump was elected to. One of the things he wanted to do was mend relations w/ Russia, which made sense from a reverse Nixonian policy: try and pry Moscow out of Beijing’s sphere of influence. No one should have any illusions that unlike in the Cold War, Beijing is the one that wears the pants in this relationship, not Moscow.
Instead, the deep state succeeded in getting Flynn removed, and then Tillerson, who was appointed to this role b’cos of his contacts in Moscow, allowed himself to be totally hijacked by the State Department. McMaster and Mattis were busy defending the Iran deal, so that ultimately, the president was forced to let go of that entire team, and now we have Pompeo and Bolton, who are the same old same old in terms of the Cold War policies on Russia. In the meantime, UK and Australia, 2 members of the 5 eyes, participate in the plot to sabotage the Trump administration, and no one in London or Canberra has been made to account for it.
As for Bannon, Trump put him in the wrong place: he should have been made head of the RNC and put in charge of recruiting candidates who’re not lawyers or GOP apparatchiks. Also, Ivanka is fine when it comes to working on closing the skills gap, but totally wrong on most other policies, and Bannon was right about her in general.
Hopefully, after John Durham exposes what was at the root of the Russia investigation, a new attempt is made next year to resume the attempts to get Russia out of Beijing’s influence. If we had Russia as an ally, we could deal w/ our adversaries both in Beijing as well as Brussels
Infidel says
There is nothing remotely insightful or courageous about Lindsay Graham. If one recalls, he was one of those who had the most visceral reactions to Trump’s 2015 proposal on a moratorium on Muslims, which ultimately morphed into the ‘Travel Ban’. He is pretty much the Senate’s version of John Bolton, who wants US troops to be everywhere, which they are: as Tucker Carlson pointed out, there are US troops in about 150 of the 200 countries that there are in the world. Not including the place they’re most needed: our border w/ Mexico.
Operation Enduring Freedom – the war we launched in response to 9/11 – was an astounding success: by December of 2001, the Taliban had lost Kabul and Kandahar, and pretty much their power in Afghanistan. The problem was that big nation-building project, which included helping the Afghans write a constitution that included a death penalty for apostasy from Islam, as well as building a gas station worth $80 million. We continued our search for Osama, and after years of believing the Pakis, we hunted him down in Abottabad, not in Pakistan’s ‘Wild West’ Waziristan. Right now, the ideal solution is to get out of Afghanistan completely, but let the Taliban know: the next time we trace any Jihadist plot back to Afghanistan, we won’t hesitate to level that country, be it w/ MOABs, bunker busters or even nukes. (I do disagree w/ the President telling Imran Khan that he had stopped the production of MOABs: we don’t need hundreds of them, maybe, but we certainly need a few, if only for a salutary effect)
Oh, and one more thing: add Afghanistan, Pakistan and Bangladesh to the list of countries in the Travel Ban.
tgusa says
20 years later and what do the American people have to show for it? 20 years later and we now know the government really doesn’t like the people they are supposed to serve. 20 years later and we now know our intelligence agencies cannot be trusted. 20 years later and khalid still awaits justice. 20 years later and we have even more jihadists in America than we had back then. The 9-11 attackers didn’t take a shuttle from Afghanistan, they were already here courtesy of the US government.
Evidently Lindsay thinks that If they are not in Afghanistan they are not plotting another mass attack. Lindsay must believe that Afghanistan is the executive boardroom of the international jihad. That’s just crazy. We didn’t find bin laden in Afghanistan he was found in a country of one of our so-call allies. I think it is pretty obvious at this point that the US government cannot be trusted to do well for the American people. I am fed up with the transformation of the US military in to the peace corp with guns.
We have plenty of problems right here that need to be addressed so get to it Lindsay or please, just get out.
Infidel says
Lindsay used to be more brazen about his never-Trump stance, but after his 1% in the primaries and a potential challenge from Harlan Hill, he’s tweaked his stance to be more supportive of the president personally, while trying to influence him into supporting neocon policies of more interference. The president, to his credit, has been resistive of that: he mentioned to Steve Hilton how Bolton, left unchecked, would conquer the world
Currently, the focus is more on China and trimming their power, but aside from countries on the Asia-Pacific rim, the US should look at pulling troops out of most of those 150+ countries. There is no reason for us to have troops in sub Saharan Africa, or work w/ the Ethiopian navy (since that is a landlocked country). We need to bring them all home, and put them on the Mexican border. That also helps us reduce some of the $700 billion defense budget: focus them on upgrading military hardware and pay of our personnel, but stop wasting them in projects outside the US: we have a $22 Trillion debt and a $1 Trillion deficit
tgusa says
Absolutely agree.
Rhonda says
Cannot AGREE more.
gravenimage says
Lindsey Graham Is Wrong: It’s Long Past Time to Get Out of Afghanistan
………………
I wish we could have civilized such a committed stretch of Dar-al-Islam, but it simply isn’t possible.
Infidel says
Hope that message can be sunk into the minds of Laura Bush and Mavis Leno, who made it a cause celebre on Afghan girls going to school. Seriously, it’s none of our business, and not worth our blood and treasure: we have a $22T debt!
gravenimage says
I would have been thrilled if we could have helped to create a democracy there–but this would never work.
Naildriver says
If we leave it’ll be another safe haven for devotees intent on attacking the USA.
It is true that it hardly matters in regards to the plans of devotees to attack the USA.
Islam, in either case, remains not just unconnected to the USA’s enemy list, but has actually enjoyed much financial aid and other benefits, including being allowed as the governing force in the country — I hardly see why the Taliban can not find this as incredible good fortune.
Till the USA gets it, that Islam is the problem, it should cut losses and leave.
Should a miracle happen and we get an administration who understands the need to divest people of Islam, and keep all conquered lands secular, I’d say go back in with a million troops — but sadly more brutal lessons of Islam’s enemy nature need to be inflicted upon the USA, and will be — the worst is this pernicious influx of ‘friendly’ Muslims with their smiling, confident, young, politicians actually being voted into office.
At what point is this treason in lending comfort, aid, and the USA’s very soul to this age old enemy, Islam, going to finally be seen as worth resisting?
Infidel says
The solution is actually not complicated. Stay out of their countries, but quietly (since SCOTUS has approved it), add the affected countries in the Travel Ban, and stop them from coming here. Start w/ Pakistan, Afghanistan and Bangladesh, and then add the stans, Turkey and Qatar. That way, not only do we stop foreign Jihadists from coming in, we also keep out future Ilhan and Rashidas as well
PRCS says
Too late.
They and their progeny are already here, will continue to reproduce, and are supported and defended by the usual useful idiots.
It is, as noted, our government’s refusal to publicly acknowledge what Islam–every Muslim’s Islam–teaches, why it is incompatible with the constitution and U.S. law, and why no Muslim (Muslim politicians in particular) can honestly swear allegiance to the U.S.
Some might think Ilhan Omar was elected solely by the Muslim residents of Minnesota 5–which is not true.
But this is true: Ellison was elected–by a whole lota non-Muslims–to represent the entire state of Minnesota as its Attorney General.
Infidel says
The one’s who’re here are here. But if we add their countries on the Travel Ban list, they won’t be able to bring their relatives here – particularly if chain migration is a part of immigration reform after a new congress gets elected. And as that happens, there is a good possibility that some who don’t like being separated from family and don’t assimilate here would go back.
No, Omar and Tlaib are very much popular w/ the woke SJWs who love Muslims precisely b’cos they’re anti-American. Where else can you get a population of close to 2 billion that does? Although, to be fair, Tlaib didn’t have a GOP opponent when she ran: they had an open primary where the GOP candidate failed to come within the top 2
Infidel says
Also, Ellison is different from Omar and Tlaib. Ellison is a NOI member – which believes that Blacks are the chosen people. Whereas Omar & Tlaib are Muslim originalists, who believe that Arabs are the chosen people.
It’d be fun to see a Sunni vs NOI war within the Dem party ?
gravenimage says
Infidel, I never want to see enough political Muslims in the US for this to happen.
PRCS says
I’d like to agree with you, infidel, but:
Preventing further Muslim migration will only slow their growth here. The goal now, IMO, is to make our fellow citizens aware of Islam’s incompatibility with the U.S. Constitution and laws.
Ellison WAS a NOI member.
But, yeah, that would be a fun war to watch.
PRCS says
Infidel, I never want to see enough political Muslims in the US for this to happen.
But, Andre Carson does at 8:47
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RW_wLRIaUno
Rhonda says
Until the first beheading of an American by a muslim….then it will be too late.
PRCS says
Already happened:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaughan_Foods_beheading_incident
Was trying to behead a second woman when he was stopped.
gravenimage says
Grimly true, PRCS.
seabird says
General McChrystal got it mostly right when he said there is no good solution.
There’s no good way you can defend bad policy (nation building in Islamic countries) and admit that your policies have failed.
There’s no good way you can say that your
“Allies” like Pak and SArabia (through their betrayal) are largely responsible for your failure in supporting the enemy.
The train wreck of 40 years of really bad policy in the ME can be seen on the Turkish/Syria border where US forces are serving as water boys for the Turks while they continue their cleansing and genocide of any Kurd, Christian or Yazidi they can find.
What started out as “partners” with these Islamic countries “to build a better society” has been reduced to a role of simply being accomplices to their crimes.
mortimer says
Disagree strongly. The US and NATO should stay in Afghanistan until it is modernized. Taking Afghanistan out of the Middle Ages is not an easy task and it should not be underestimated. Having foreign troops there lets the Afghans learn from the foreigners and gradually warm to modernity. Otherwise, the primitive barbarians of the Taliban will destroy all the modern institutions that have been implemented since the invasion, such as real estate boards, professional associations, business organizations, institutes of learning, road-building companies, contracting firms, cultural association, entertainment companies, theaters, sports, governmental agencies, and NGOs, etc. All those things were in ruins when the Taliban were kicked out.
Pulling out of Afghanistan will send it back to 2001 and total societal collapse and a new 9-11 will inevitably follow.
gravenimage says
Mortimer wrote:
Disagree strongly. The US and NATO should stay in Afghanistan until it is modernized. Taking Afghanistan out of the Middle Ages is not an easy task and it should not be underestimated. Having foreign troops there lets the Afghans learn from the foreigners and gradually warm to modernity.
…………………..
How “gradual” will this be? We have already been there *eighteen years*, and far from modernizing Afghanistan has put stoning back on the books. Sadly, you cannot modernize a country that is almost 100% Muslim.
More:
Otherwise, the primitive barbarians of the Taliban will destroy all the modern institutions that have been implemented since the invasion, such as real estate boards, professional associations, business organizations, institutes of learning, road-building companies, contracting firms, cultural association, entertainment companies, theaters, sports, governmental agencies, and NGOs, etc. All those things were in ruins when the Taliban were kicked out.
…………………..
This is true–but these institutions barely function, and not at all in most cases right outside Kabul. There has, sadly but predictably, been little real enthusiasm for any kind of reform there. Meanwhile, more and more of our good troops and support staff are being murdered there.
CRUSADER says
Afghanistan has been unto itself and been sustained by poppies as product for longer than memory. Might as well recognize it is a graveyard for empires and contain it rather than change it ! We’ve paid too much treasure not to learn that lesson, finally. USA and West aren’t infinite money trees, after all. And we value individual lives too much to waste them on stubborn Muslim tribal people.
PRCS says
Tribal people.
+1
Infidel says
The ‘graveyard of empires’ claim is actually a myth: Afghanistan was conquered by the likes of Genghiz Khan, Tamerlane, Nader Shah,… Yeah, those empires did unravel, but not due to Afghanistan. In fact, places like Herat and Balkh were part of Iranian empires, while even other places like Ghazni, Ghowr, Kabul were conquered by various Turkic empires outside Afghanistan. But one thing – none of them had any compunctions about massacring people of various cities, like Genghiz Khan did in Herat
Aside from that, though, I agree w/ you: we no longer have any business staying there. Cut our losses and come home
gravenimage says
We should contain Afghanistan–and the rest of the Muslim world–as much as possible. The Muslim world was largely contained from many years, and we were largely safe from Jihad.
somehistory says
You can’t fix stupid. moslim countries are ruled by devout moslims and they don’t want to be different. If they wanted to be different, if they wanted to be intelligent, they would get rid of the insanely evil ideas and lawless code of behavior that is islam.
They want to keep islam. No amount of good ideas, or good intentions will change that.
One only has to look at the moslims that leave and enter countries that are not ruled by devout moslims and islam. One only has to observe the devout moslims that enter the U.S. They bring their insane evil ideas and behaviors with them and act them out.
They come in and build their barracks and teach and listen to the things they listened to in the moslim ruled countries they left behind. They eat the food, they dress the same, they demand accommodation for their ways, their practices, their “culture.”
moslims don’t want to live any differently than they do in those countries ruled by moslims…except they want to live without working as they may have had to before.
Relic says
unleaded
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXRM3lFRwRI
PRCS says
Apt analogy.
vlparker says
There is nothing more stupid on earth than getting involved in muslim civil wars.
Infidel says
Precisely! The only thing we should do is profit from them – sell them weapons to kill each other, like we’re doing in Yemen.
gravenimage says
With all respect, I don’t think we should be selling any Muslims weaponry.
vlparker says
Here is an example of the utter stupidity of McChrystal, Petraeus, Mattis and others. Stupidity and criminality. It is their duty to know the enemy, a duty they have shirked. They will sell out their country before they will tell the truth about islam. Disgusting.
http://dianawest.net/Home/tabid/36/EntryId/3447/This-Is-What-COIN-Looks-Like.aspx
PRCS says
And this idiocy (also by Diana West):
Gonzo Gitmo charade
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2005/jun/9/20050609-092940-3178r/
I wrote about this to Senator Feinstein and received the usual, stupid boilerplate response:
“reasonable religious accomodation”
vlparker says
How I loathe these military and political leaders that grovel before islam. If the people leading the US over the past few decades had been around in 1776 there never would have been a United States. These people are a poor shadow of the Founding Fathers.
PRCS says
True.
elee says
No negotiations with the bloody Taliban! Never, ever, anywhere, for any reason. We are so beneficent we should always be ready to grant them the Muslims dearest wish, an eternity with 70 virgins and boys like pearls, that’s right, the big M, martyrdom, free for the asking.
gravenimage says
Yes–our “negotiating” with the Taliban just proves we are fools.
Infidel says
We need to pull out of there, regardless of what they say. Right now, they’re talking about leaving 8600 troops for mainly policing and intelligence gathering. I don’t suggest trusting the Taliban, but the facts on the ground suggest that they’re sick of al Qaeda and ISIS horning in on their turf. Use that to tell them that as long as they keep their Jihadist activities local – to Afghanistan and maybe just Pakistan, they’re fine. But if we even intercept any plot against the US being hatched there, like in 2001, then we’re leveling that place w/ MOABs, bunker busters and whatever else it takes.
The Taliban are not idiots: they’ve seen what supporting al Qaeda cost them: they controlled 96% of that country in 2001 before 9/11, and within weeks, they lost everything, including Kabul and Kandahar. So there is a probability that they would try to keep them out. In the meantime, we need to stop pretending that Afghanistan is a modern country, stop spending $80 million on gas stations, stop being obsessed about whether Afghan girls go to school or get married, and just LEAVE. Let the Chinese mine the mountains of Afghanistan for rare earths, and deal w/ the Afghans in case the latter is upset about infidel Chinese in their country.
gravenimage says
I do worry about Afghan women’s suffering–but this *always* happens under Islam. Oppressing women is a core part of that vicious creed.
sidney penny says
Robert Spencer with his knowledge and experience of Islam is now providing solutions which all leaders should take note of whether you are in Congress or in the White House.
Eric Jones says
Cut off the funding to Afghani Islamist from Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and the gulf states. Cut off the head to kill the snake. Bring our troops home.
Eric
Infidel says
Uh, Pakistan is the problem. In fact, Pakistan is a bigger terrorist problem than Afghanistan, since it’s their intelligence that’s been supporting Jihadist groups for decades – not just against India, but also al Qaeda, Islamic movement of Turkistan and Uighur Jihadists as well.
Good news is that oil sales from the Gulf countries are down – mainly due to the US becoming a big exporter, and also the problems around the Straits of Hormuz. Like India had to take Iran off their markets, but they’re not importing more from the other gulf states: instead, they’ve started buying from both the US and Russia. It’s also why Gulf States – usually pretty supportive of Islamic causes worldwide – have looked the other way both on China w/ their Uighur situation, as well as India on Kashmir (the UAE even went so far as supporting what India did and honoring Modi, pissing off Islamabad in the process). In short, they have less money to spend these days on dawa
gravenimage says
I’m glad that we are cutting aid to Pakistan. Long time due.
Rev. G says
You cannot claim to be fighting radical islam abroad while subsidizing it, providing cover for it, and promoting its sources back on your home front. That is truly an exercise in futility, and will not end well.
Mike says
Can someone tell me who can relye on an occasional courageous man ?
That’s why whenever I see Lindsay coming on a screen , I quit . The only time I stayed was at McCain or Bush funerals when he seems to be too friendly with political ennemies . Once he realized he was on tv , he cool down.
Infidel says
It was his great speech at the Kavanagh hearings that turned a lot of right wing opinion to his side, but I still don’t trust him. He’s pretty much a senate version of John Bolton, who wants our troops to be everywhere. Having gotten just 1% polling in his home state when he ran against Trump, he’s read the writing on the wall and is now busy smooching POTUS: he supports him on the tariffs on China and on the Russia witchhunt in the hope that the president will listen to him on leaving troops in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria et al. Never mind that ISIS has scattered and is now in countries like Bangladesh and Libya
Yeah, I too switch channels whenever I see Lindsay Graham.
Giacomo Latta says
Let some armed Afghanis kill other armed Afghanis. It is not as if either is an endangered species like rhinoceroses or giraffes.
rbla says
Trashing our immigration system in the mid 60s and refusing to correct this error in the mid 80s was the direct cause of 911, the trillions spent and lives lost since and the takeover of Iraq by the crazed mullahs. Also resulted in Muslims in Congress and power to the socialist Democrats. Much better than staying in tar baby Afghanistan would be: end illegal immigration and no amnesty or birthright citizenship, seal the borders, have a workable visa entry exit program and end any additional Muslim immigration.
Infidel says
All that, and add a few more Muslim countries to the Travel Ban list of countries: Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh, the stans, Turkey, Qatar, Palestinian territories and Lebanon
gravenimage says
True, rbla. I am glad to see Muslim immigration down 90% under Trump, though. It has been a hard fight.
E T says
I love to read “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with Unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness.”
I dislike reading Sheikh Ahmed Badran “Once Muslim’s come to power, they will NEVER allow infidels to rule over Muslims.”
I would love to ask Keith Ellison, Rashid, Ilan and CAIR their thoughts on both statements, I think I know what their views are.
The caring Muslim, from CAIR, Nihad Awad, in 2005 said “Give scholarships, in 5 years you will have an army of lawyers, POLITICIANS, journalists, teachers who go to schools, universities, who can EDUCATE people about the history of Islam, the TRUE Islam”.
”Politics is a weapon”. “I will die to establish Islam”. “Oh Allah, Destroy America”.
To hell with Islam, it will never change, bring all your troops home, close your borders, declare the Muslim Brotherhood the terrorist group that they are, deport all of them, and God bless the United States of America.
gravenimage says
Important questions, E T.
PRCS says
Yes, CAIR has been at it for quite a while now.
But, they don’t always win.
https://fox5sandiego.com/2018/07/17/parents-sue-over-city-schools-anti-islamophobia-program/
PRCS says
Ooops.
Forgot to link:
San Diego Unified dumps anti-Islamophobia initiative
CAIR had ties to terror groups
https://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2019/may/22/city-lights-san-diego-unified-dumps-anti-islamo/#
E T says
In other words “Focus on saving America from an Islamic takeover”