On MSNBC’s “Andrea Mitchell Reports” yesterday, Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (D-TX) called for the establishment of a commission that would “study reparation proposals.” These proposals would be “designed for those descendants of slavery. Tragically, 250 years of slavery in the United States for those enslaved Africans did not receive workman’s comp, salary, 401(k), or anything, and literally built the wealth of the United States and Europe….I think America is ready for this because of what we have been going through in the last couple of weeks, because of the attitude of our Commander-in-Chief, and because of what we have seen. The dastardly impacts of white nationalism, white supremacy, and outright racism that has impacted others but certainly has impacted over the decades and centuries African-Americans, the descendants of enslaved Africans.”
What about reparations from Muslim Arabs to black Africans? A German-Egyptian scholar, Hamed Abdel-Samad, has created a series of YouTube talks entitled “Box of Islam,” in which he offers a critical appraisal of many aspects of Islam. Several months ago, he devoted his talk to slavery in Islam. It was a remarkable display of candor. Abdel-Samad said that 29 verses in the Quran endorse slavery and that “the Arabs enslaved the Africans more than any other nation did.” This is an important admission by an Arab scholar of Islam who has the unusual habit of saying what he believes to be true; naturally, he has endured death threats and is under police protection from Muslim fanatics even in Germany, where he lives. His main point — that the greatest enslavers of Africans have been the Arabs — should be kept firmly in mind by African states as they consider their future relations with the Arabs, and what they may legitimately demand from them.
Because of those 29 verses in the Qur’an, and because Muhammad, the Perfect Man and Model of Conduct, held slaves himself, the Arabs and Muslims were unwilling to abolish slavery. It was profoundly part of, and justified by, Islam. There never was a Muslim William Wilberforce. When the Arabs and other Muslims finally did abolish slavery, it was done under terrific Western pressure. The Royal Navy interdicted the Arab vessels carrying Africans to the slave markets of Arabia in the 19th century. But slavery continued in Muslim lands well into the twentieth century. It was abolished in Turkey in 1924, thanks to Ataturk’s determination to secularize and modernize his country; he was not impressed with the example of Muhammad, whom he described as an “illiterate bedouin.” Slavery was abolished in Iran in 1929. The Arabs of the peninsula held out much longer, but eventually pressure from the West forced them, most reluctantly, to abolish slavery. In 1962, it was ended in Saudi Arabia and in Oman, and in Yemen in 1970.
But that is not the end of the story. For despite the official abolition of slavery in Muslim countries, there are still, today, more than a million black slaves of Arab masters. In Mauritania, there are 600,000, in Mali 200,000, and in Niger 680,000 black slaves. Furthermore, during the Sudanese civil war, northern Arabs enslaved hundreds of thousands of southern blacks. And in Libya, where many Africans arrived during the last decade in the hope of making it across the Mediterranean to Europe, those who didn’t have the money for passage stayed in Libya in the hope of somehow raising the funds. Hundreds of thousands of these Africans were left stranded; thousands of these ended up on the slave markets — at least nine have been identified — set up by Libyan Arabs.
How did the Arab slave trade differ from the Atlantic slave trade? First, it began many centuries — nearly a millennium — before the Europeans started to take African slaves across the Atlantic. The first of the rebellions of black slaves (the Zanj) against Arab masters took place in Iraq in the late 7th century, which tells us that the Arab slave trade began in the very first century of Islam. We know that black African slavery in many Arab lands continued until the late 20th century, at least 100 years after it ended in the West. And surely it is significant that, as noted above, the Arab enslavement of black Africans continues right up to the present day in Mauritania, Mali, Niger, and, most recently, Libya.
It is estimated that 12 million slaves were taken in the Atlantic Slave trade, with 10.5 million surviving the Middle Passage to the New World. The Arab slave trade was quite different, for a large part of it was devoted to seizing black boys who would then be castrated in the bush, of course without anesthetic, to serve as eunuchs in Muslim harems. Those who survived the primitive operation were then marched in slave coffles from the interior either all the way up to the Muslim slave-markets of Egypt and North Africa (from Tripolitania to Mauritania), or taken by dhow to the Arabian coast, often to Muscat, and from there to the slave-markets of Islam — Riyadh and Damascus, Baghdad, Cairo, even as far as Constantinople and Smyrna. In The Hideous Trade, Jan Hogedoorn has calculated that the mortality rate of these boy slaves, due to the conditions of their castration and subsequent forced marches hundreds of miles through the African bush, ended with between 10% and 30% of those originally seized actually managing to survive to be sold on the slave markets of Islam. Despite this mortality rate, the trade was profitable because eunuchs fetched higher prices than ordinary slaves. The best estimate now is that 14-17 million black Africans survived the trip from Africa to reach the Islamic slave-markets. Many of them were those castrated boys, to be used as eunuchs; the others taken — men, women, girls — had much higher rates of survival than the boys. It is hard, then, to estimate the actual numbers of black Africans seized by Arab slavers, but surely, given the data offered by Hogedoorn and others, it was at least several times the number who survived. At least 40 million seems a reasonable estimate — a number that far exceeds the 12 million taken in the Atlantic slave trade, the trade about which we hear so much. This wreaked havoc all over East and Central Africa, disrupting tribal societies. In his monograph on “The Wanderings of Peoples,” the British historian A. C. Haddon notes that in Africa “the slave trade, as carried on under Arab influence…contributed powerfully to the dislocation of tribes.” Damage was done to the African social order because of this slave trade, which went deep into Africa, as deep as the Congo, unlike the Atlantic Slave Trade which confined itself to the coast of West Africa where Europeans did not seize, but bought their African slaves from other Africans, many of them Muslims.
Social dislocation, and in some cases economic collapse, followed upon the activities of the Arab slavers. One thinks of Tippoo Tib, whose depredations in Central and East Africa were well known in the 19th century; he was a celebrated Arab trader (mainly in ivory) and a dealer in slaves, too; he and other Arab slavers were among the worst of the calamities visited by outsiders upon Black Africa. Unlike the European colonialists, the Arabs who enslaved 14-17 million black Africans and were responsible for the deaths of many times that number (who died on the trek from the bush to the slave markets) have never been called to account for this. The statement of Hamed Abdel-Samad is most significant: I do not remember another occasion when an Arab scholar of Islam has publicly dared to tell two home truths: first, that there are 29 passages in the Qur’an defending slavery; second, that the greatest enslavers of black Africans, by far, have been the Arabs.
Why shouldn’t the countries of black Africa make some demands for reparations from those Muslim Arabs awash in oil revenues? Black Africa is poor; Western aid is being cut; out of desperation, many African countries have been selling off their resources to China.
If Black Africa is poor, some of the Muslim Arabs are fantastically rich. They have done nothing to deserve that wealth; it is merely a question of an accident of geology. The black Africans have for more than half a century done the diplomatic bidding of the Arabs at the U.N. After the Six-Day War, they dutifully cut relations with Israel, thus ending that country’s very successful aid program directed at improving small-scale agricultural projects. What did they get from the Arabs for this? Nothing. A few of the African despots — the Big Men — may as individuals have made money from the Arabs, having been paid off to become Muslims. One thinks of Idi Amin, turning Muslim and then retiring for life to Saudi Arabia. Similar stories of others who “reverted” to Islam for a payoff could be told. But there has been no visible Arab aid program to black Africa, certainly nothing on the scale of the Israeli aid programs that, prodded by the Arabs, the Africans closed down, and nothing, either, to compensate for the permanent damage done to black Africa by that “social dislocation” caused by that vast slave trade over many centuries.
Is it beyond the wit of the Infidels in the West, in Europe and America, to back up black Africa should it make demands for reasonable reparations from the Arabs? The Arab slave trade did so much damage; yet the Arabs, as Hamed Abdel-Samad says, unlike Americans and Europeans, have never publicly recognized their own significant role, much less offered the aid to Africa that has come from Europe and America. Why should the fabulously rich Arabs of Saudi Arabia, the U.A.E., Kuwait, and Qatar be allowed to pretend to be fellow victims of the Western colonialists, which they never were, and so, by this charade, absolved from the duty of reparations?
Somewhere, in all of those schemes and pan-African dreams, there must be some black African leaders willing and able to demand that the rich Arabs make amends for the Arab slave trade in black Africa, which began earlier, ended later, and was far more extensive, than the European slave trade, by offering what we now call reparations. If Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the U.A.E., Qatar were forced to disgorge, as pentitential pence, to black Africa every year, say, $50 billion (for the four of them together, that is only a few weeks of income from sales of oil and natural gas), it would constitute a very modest compensation for the great damage inflicted by the Arab slave trade on black Africa. That money could do a great deal of good for cash-starved African countries. It would also use up some of the revenues in those Gulf Arab countries that otherwise, inevitably, go to fund mosques, madrasas, propaganda, campaigns of Da’wa, arms acquisition, and other instruments of the Jihad.
Suppose the Arabs refused to come through with the sums requested as reparations, which for them would mean so little and for the black Africans mean so much? The very act of raising the issue of such reparations could force the Arabs to come through with an offer, if only to stop all the talk about the Arab slave trade, which would be so damaging both to their image and to the image of Islam. Until now, whenever the subject of reparations comes up, it has always had to do with reparations from the West to third world nations, or reparations within a country, as in the United States, from whites to non-whites. Talk about reparations to the black Africans from the Arabs should be accompanied by focusing the world’s attention on the black slaves still being held, and mistreated, even today, by the Arabs in Mauritania (600,000), Mali (200,000), and Niger (870,000), a fact that the Arabs would prefer not receive sustained, or indeed any, attention. Nor would they relish any discussion about the full extent of their trade in African slaves over more than a millennium. They also would wish to prevent anyone bringing up the indisputable fact that 29 verses in the Qur’an endorse slavery, and that Muhammad himself owned slaves. The longer the Arabs refuse to supply such reparations, the more likely the very topics they wish to avoid will be raised — repeatedly.
The West has since the 1950s given black Africa hundreds of billions in foreign aid, which some might regard as its own form of reparations. Why should the Muslim Arabs, whose slave trade was far more extensive and brutal and disruptive than that of the Europeans. be allowed to get off scot-free? It’s time for a public reckoning. The black African states have nothing to lose, and a good deal to gain, if they can shame the Arabs into making some sort of reparations. They need the money; their claim for such reparations is both riveting and convincing, one not easily forgotten. How long can the Arabs hold out, when the sums involved are for them so modest?
Demands from black Africa for reparations from the rich Muslim Arabs are not only a matter of simple justice. They will also have a beneficial effect in the West, in limiting Islam’s appeal. These demands, and the reasons the African states offer as to why such reparations are justified, also make things harder for those conducting campaigns of Da’wa among black people both in Africa, and in Western countries, where black populations, especially in the prisons, have been targeted for conversion. A truthful historical narrative would show black people in the West that Islam has not been a liberating force for blacks against the “Western oppressor,” but instead has justified in Muslim Arab eyes their own, much more devastating traffic in African slaves.
Both the more than 1300 years of Arab enslavement of black Africans, and the continuation of Arab enslavement of blacks even today in four countries (Mauritania, Niger, Mali, Libya) should become topics at the United Nations, raised at least as frequently as the putative perfidy of Israel. The Africans have nothing to lose. And nothing will bring back the 40 million or more Africans who were seized in the bush by Arab slavers, nor make up for the damage that the Arab slave trade did to African societies, but reparations from the rich Arabs will constitute the first step in owning up to, and making minimal amends for, a terrible history.
mike says
If not for the slave trade these people would not have the prosperity they have today they would still be living in Africa. Nothing is stopping them from going back. This is just a ploy to build bigger government that will find nothing concrete to give money to who? The comment that they have no 401K or workman’s comp is absurd comment this is just another way for the Democrats to lie to people for votes just like a drug dealer one more point this is an example of our excellent educational system and people are leaving the plantation and the left is out of control
Hugo says
Is it realistic to expect them to return to Africa a dozen generations or more after their were distant relatives kidnapped from Africa? It is less realistic than expecting Americans of European decent, returning to Europe; many having arrived in North America long after the black slaves.
If they do wish to return to Africa, is some compensation not due? Do you think Africa wants them back?
gravenimage says
If they want to move to Africa, they can do that on their own.
J D S says
Arab/muslim the kidnappers of the Africans. After the Africans were kidnapped they were sold/traded the africans to the slave trader who then transported them wherever he could and sold them into slavery. Sad story it should have been reversed and the arab/muslim would have been the slaves…but they ARE SLAVES even today, slaves to their psganism/allahism/muhammadism
Prebangian says
“Tragically, 250 years of slavery in the United States…” Rep. Jackson is going to have to shake down the Brits (and a couple of other Western European countries) for first 150 worth of slavery because the US didn’t exist until 1776 and in 89 years after 1776 the US put an end to slavery. So I think she has to mean “Tragically, 89 years of slavery in the United States…” I won’t support reparations because the word implies an admission of guilt. Neither I nor my ancestors were involved in slavery except 2000 years ago when my Slav (slave) ancestors were enslaved by the Romans. More recently my ancestors were kidnapped and imprisoned by Russians and Germans. I’m glad to help people in need but it is simply not possible for one to admit to anything one didn’t do. For those Americans whose ancestors were slave owners, it is in no way clear that children are responsible for the actions of their ancestors. And it always shocks me that while people are rightly distraught by the historical practice of slavery, no one acts to stop the modern day Islamic enslavement of 200,000 Mauritanians.
Terry Gain says
So does the Muslim Pope endorse slavery?
gravenimage says
Certainly, Al Azhar–the most respected orthodox seat of learning in Sunni Islam–does:
“Daesh is not alone in justifying sexual slavery, there is al Azhar too”
http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Daesh-is-not-alone-in-justifying-sexual-slavery,-there-is-al-Azhar-too-(II)-43002.html
elee says
You had my hopes up for a minute but no, nobody’s going to inquire into that Muslim history, for two very good and related reasons: (1) we live in a time when, after building the best civilisation there has ever been, white men get reviled by everyone for everything, and (2) after a millennium of pillaging enslaving raping and subjugating, Islam has created nothing worth redistributing.
FYI says
Lefty historians tend to ignore an awkward fact about the iniquitous slave trade:
African Chieftains sold their OWN fellow Africans into slavery for profit,often taking them from other tribes and selling them to traders.
This politicallly incorrect fact spoils the Leftist Historical narrative that it was all the fault of the White man.
Imperialism and colonialism are appaling but let’s get the facts straight here.
The muslims did it,{shamefully} Europeans did it but ..the Africans did it too:African chieftains enslaved their own people too.
elee says
The more one learns about imperialism and colonialism the less either looks like an appalling monolith. They were real institutions and ideologies practised by real humans with the usual mix of real human motivations and the usual mixture of good, evil and neutral results……some of which corresponded to expectations, some of which didn’t.
Dr. JOYCE says
Yes. All three groups were implicit in the Atlantic slave trade. There is a correction, however. Slavery lasted 80 years in the United States – roughly form its establishment until the Civll War. The thirteen colonies were under British rule from the laws enacting chattle slavery until the Revolution: Massachusettes 1641 and Virginia (1662),
762x51FMJ says
They should have a $1000 poll tax to pay reparations in order to be able to vote Democrat,
Democrats seceded from the Union and caused
600,000 Civil War deaths,
Shot Abraham Lincoln for writing the Emancipation Proclamation,
filibustered the 13th and 14th Amendments,
voted with KKK grandmaster Democrat Robert Byrd against the Civil Rights Act,
And they run around accusing everyone ELSE of being a racist…
Fred says
Ms Lee thinks there was 250 years of slavery in the U.S.?
Let’s see, Declaration of Independence signed 1776. We were not yet free of British rule, but let’s use that date. Civil War ended 1865. So on the outside, that’s 89 years.
Ms Lee is not the sharpest tool in the shed, but at least she didn’t say Guam would tip over and sink.
somehistory says
Lying is not beneath her. Truth is something she avoids spilling, tho.
Spiro says
Sharps tool
Not only is she not the sharps tool in the shed but she gets reelected that tell us a lot about her district
Oldone says
Sharpest tool…Indeed she is not…
gravenimage says
Very true, Fred.
somehistory says
The Truth never makes a difference to those who want what they want when they want it and don’t care how much getting it will hurt everyone else. jackson lee is just such a person. She is a loudmouth and uses her skin color as a weapon…to be elected, to stay in office and to make as much noise and trouble, gaining money along the way, as she is able.
Black people in this country work too. If money is to be taken from taxpayers to give to every person who had relatives who lived in Africa and were made to slave for others, then some of this tax money will be taken from those Black workers.
In the city in which I live, there are Black men and women driving city buses, working at the SS department of the government, driving police and sheriff’s deputy cars, and so many other positions of employment too numerous to mention. If taxes are taken for “reparations”…that will not go to the ones who slaved…then these hard=working people will be helping to pay for it and income taxes will go up to help cover the cost.
But jackson lee doesn’t care about that. She is Black…and she will get her unfair share of the money. along with the pats on the back from her Black friends for getting them a fat paycheck for something they didn’t do or experience.
moslims consider ti their right to enslave others. Even during this century, in the country, they have been found to be enslaving people. There was the very recent case of the couple who enslaved a young girl from abut the age of five…for several years before being caught and sent to prison. And the saudi “princess” in CA who had slaves working for her. These slaves are the ones who should be given money for their hard work and it should come from those who enslaved them…not the American public who didn’t.
If jackson lee wants something that would have come to some relative hundreds of years ago, then she should also be held accountable for crimes those and other relatives may have committed in the past and for which they never were held accountable or punished. “You take the good, you take the bad, you take them both and there you have, the Facts of Life.”
somehistory says
Questions for lee: Do you plan on using tax money to pay for the thousands of family tree searches that would be necessary to determine just who are those whose family members were forced to come to this country and slave…for Blacks and Whites? Or do you plan on just doling out the money to every Black person in the country, whether or not they had slave ancestors? To keep yourself and your Black friends and family from having to dole out money for other Blacks you couldn’t care less about, do you plan on having each White person in America go to an office in their State and pay what money they have and then hand it over to a Black person standing in line to receive? And what about those White Americans who have moved out of the country, but who were born in America and thus, in your mind, “owe” Black Americans…how will they be made to pay?
gravenimage says
And many of those paying didn’t have ancestors here before the Civil War–even worse, some would be the descendants of those who fought, and in many cases died, to free the slaves.
somehistory says
All true, g.
There are so many things about this idea that would make it totally unfair to so many. Greed is behind the whole thing.
Keys says
Totally unfair for so many
“Greed is behind the whole thing.”
Yes, and some hate, racism, ignorance, …..
Will the descendants of European indentured servants be included in the reparations ?
How about the descendants of European immigrants who worked 12-16 hour days for less than subsistence wages in horrendous conditions ?
All after allowing for white privilege, of course.
gravenimage says
Agreed, Somehistory and Keys.
Ecosse1314 says
Compensation for any still living.
gravenimage says
🙂
Carolyne says
i will happily pay reparations for any slave I ever owned.
Kish says
Reparations from Muslim countries to African countries would be great! I’ll believe it when I see it – but I am not expecting Muslim countries will agree they have the moral obligation to do so, since it would be an official stance of assigning moral fault to Mohammad.
Within western countries reparations of whites to non whites makes no sense, since people punished are not the ones at fault and people benefitting are not the ones harmed. And there are plenty of blacks much better off than many whites. So the money redistribution base on race is inherently unfair.
However, I’d support using tax dollars collected from everyone to pay for help to those in tough economic conditions. This would need to apply regardless of race. And very importantly it can not be money given, but must be vouchers for programs that help better ones chances to gainful employment. Examples would be vouchers for tutors helping with school homework, vouchers for college classes, vouchers for paying salary while on an internship or apprenticeship. And all of those vouchers should be tied to having to show that there is effort spent in using them for the intended purpose. If the tutor can not confirm that the student is paying attention during sessions then I do not want my tax dollars wasted on that student.
lebel says
” It was abolished in Turkey in 1924, thanks to Ataturk’s determination to secularize and modernize his country; he was not impressed with the example of Muhammad, whom he described as an “illiterate bedouin.””
It was abolished by the Ottomans in 1857, strange that you fail to mention that.
Wellington says
Officially abolished, lebel, but as even the left-leaning Wikipedia notes in its article on slavery in the Ottoman Empire, slavery persisted nevertheless. For instance, as late as 1908 female slaves were still sold throughout the OE.
Form over substance doesn’t count, lebel. Not so strange, really not strange at all, that you fail to grasp this since there is a great deal you do not grasp, and this “inability” is directly related to how much you continue to shill and make excuses for the worst religion of all time.
lebel says
“Officially abolished, lebel, but as even the left-leaning Wikipedia notes in its article on slavery in the Ottoman Empire, slavery persisted nevertheless. For instance, as late as 1908 female slaves were still sold throughout the OE.”
Bit of a goalpost move there as that is not what I refuted, but fine Slavery persisted. So a more accurate statement would have been “The Ottomans abolished slavery in 1857 but it persisted until the early 20th century in parts of the Empire”
Or we can do a Wellington version : “The blood-drenched Prophet emulating Ottomans feigned to abolish slavery in 1857 under the pressure of non-Muslims but in reality they continued to rape and butcher babies in line with Koranic injunctions. At least one billion people are estimated to have been butchered in the Ottoman’s jihad while 2 billion were enslaved. Nothing like this was ever committed by Western nations especially not America and in any case it has apologised.”
We good?
gravenimage says
Wait–lebel thinks that lying about abolishing slavery is as good as ending it, and that not accepting Muslim lying about it is “a goalpost move”?
In other words, who cares if Muslims are still enslaving people, so long as they are lying about it to the ‘filthy Infidel’?
In that case, Muslims can just say that Jihad isn’t Islamic, and that Muslims have no interest in forcing Infidels to submit to Islam, and all will be well, even though this is all completely untrue.
Oh…wait…this is what lebel does all the time in any case…
Then. of course, he openly lies about Wellington with a fake “quote” he attributes to him. Just appalling but very ham-fisted calumny.
Angemon says
“Then. of course, he openly lies about Wellington with a fake “quote” he attributes to him. Just appalling but very ham-fisted calumny.”
Not the first time he does it, and it certainly won’t be the last….
Keys says
Not good on this one, lebel.
You attribute lies to Wellington, an honest man, by putting quotes around untruths he did not speak. You ought to be banned from JW for that offense.
Further, Wellington, a gifted writer, sounds nothing like what you wrote – your attempt at mimicking just didn’t flow.
Wellington needs no defenders here, but I wanted to tell you, “not good”.
Wellington says
Thank you, Keys and gravenimage. And deep shame on you, lebel (not that this will matter with the likes of someone constituted as you are).
At the very least, you know, you shouldn’t quote what was not quoted in the first place.
In any case, the deceptions of Mo’s deluded believers remain never ending. You come to mind here, lebel. Yes you do.
Geoffrey Britain says
Not quite. ““The Ottomans abolished slavery in 1857 but it persisted until the early 20th century in parts of the Empire”
The Ottoman Empire ceased to exist in 1918. And that is the ONLY reason why slavery ceased persisting in that Empire.
lebel says
“Wellington says
Aug 29, 2019 at 7:49 pm
Thank you, Keys and gravenimage. And deep shame on you, lebel (not that this will matter with the likes of someone constituted as you are).
At the very least, you know, you shouldn’t quote what was not quoted in the first place.
In any case, the deceptions of Mo’s deluded believers remain never ending. You come to mind here, lebel. Yes you do.”
Tough crowd
Angemon says
“Tough crowd”
Nope – just an unfunny clown…
CRUSADER says
The West put a halt to slavery —
Yet the evil of the world persist with it!
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gravenimage says
What Wellington says is quite true. Of course lebel would focus on false claims by the Ottomans made to assuage the West. In reality, there are photographs of slave markets in places like Arabia and Mesopotamia from the late 19th and early 20th centuries (this was part of the Ottoman Empire at the time).
lebel says
“Wait–lebel thinks that lying about abolishing slavery is as good as ending it, and that not accepting Muslim lying about it is “a goalpost move”?
In other words, who cares if Muslims are still enslaving people, so long as they are lying about it to the ‘filthy Infidel’?”
That is EXACTLY what I think. +1 on that!
gravenimage says
As always, lebel hopes that we will take his sneering as actual denial.
Angemon says
“It was abolished by the Ottomans in 1857”
Turkey was founded in 1923. Had this been the other way around – lebel talking about Turkey and Wellington bringing up the Ottoman Empire – lebel would surely accuse him of “lying” and “moving the goalposts”…
Isabella van der westhuizen says
I think the sacrifice Mrs Bixy and her boys laid on the alter of freedom is more than enough
gravenimage says
So true.
jackie says
This piece of EXCREMENT is such an IDIOT, and makes the people of Houston, Texas look like FOOLS!!! She does not represent me or my views at all. Perfect example of why term limits are needed.
revereridesagain says
“…and literally built the wealth of the United States and Europe…”
As in, “You didn’t build that!”?
gravenimage says
Yes–these claims are absurd. In fact, slavery greatly retarded progress in the American South, and the economies of Europe and the US really started to emerge *after* the abolition of slavery in these places.
Eric Jones says
Good article. As the aricle pointed out slavery is still going on in Africa. Recently in Libya thanks to sultan Obama. Christainty has set men free. Where ever Islam goes it enslaves men. Sadly some African tribes facilitaed and participated in the slave trade as well..
As Black American myself I am concerned about things I consider to be more important than reporations. Such things such : as police murder and abuse, voter suppression and unjust criminal sentencing. As for reporations you can have mine.
The USA will never surrender to sharia.
Eric
gravenimage says
Hear. hear, Eric!
Geoffrey Britain says
“I am concerned about things I consider to be more important than reporations. Such things such : as police murder and abuse, voter suppression and unjust criminal sentencing.”
Can’t let you get away with that Leftist propaganda.
Police murder and abuse? FBI statistics reveal that by percentage… far more whites are killed by police than are blacks. Racism is an equal opportunity oppressor. Racists hate every other race not of their own. Which makes Asian American’s higher pay than whites and far lower arrest and imprison rates an “inconvenient truth”. WHY aren’t those ‘racist’ white cops and the ‘racist system’ failing so miserably to get those Asians? Huh?
News flash! The only voter suppression that exists is by the Left. Some Philadelphia districts had more democrat votes than ALL the registered voters… not even the Soviets did that well… All that Republicans want to do is accurately confirm that a prospective voter is an American citizen that has the right to vote.
Black males comprise less than 6% of the American population and commit 50%+ of the murders… do the crime, do the time is JUST sentencing. STOP making excuses for the blacks that commit crimes. When blacks reduce their crime rate, those white cops will treat blacks just like they do Asians.
gravenimage says
You are right, Geoffrey–I should never just skim posts.
Eric Jones says
Geoffrey Britain
I am not spouting Leftist propaganda.
See the murder of Eric Garner in Staten Island yourself. There is a video of it. You will see Garner face down on his chest with cops on his back executing a choke hold on him. This choke hold is illegal in NYC. Garner died for selling loose cigarettes. When this can happen to you or your relatives you will know why I make the point I made.. When you have to warn your younger brother on how to act when encountering cops you will know what I mean.
News flash!. I am all for prospective voters proving that they are USA citizens and that they live in the address claimed. There are many other means of voter suppression. Such as moving voting locations in hard to reach places where public transportation is limited and other such means.
I have never made excuses for for Black criminals having been a crime victim myself by Blacks. I don’t make excuses for any criminals White, Black, or other. You state that Whites are killed by cops at a higher rate than Blacks, then why don’t White people speak up about it and make it better for us all? I have never mentioned the race of any cops. When Whites reduce their crime rate then those cops will treat Whites just like they treat Asians. Your logic Brian. I have four law enforcement people in my family by the way. I am not anti cop.
The reason I don’t support reparations programs is because they paper over the underlying problem. Unjust application of power is not dealt with.
Japaneses Americans received $20,000 for their unjust internment during WW2. Paragraph 6 of the law states that the purpose of this law is to “discourage similar injustices in the future.” HR 442 1988. Discourage is the key word here. It does not say bar, prohibit or never again. Japanese Americans or any other American group can be interned again in a national emergency or a state of hysteria caused by some catastrophe.
Until unjust application of power is dealt with reparations programs are limited. In the case of Islam which this article is about. Until Islam forbids slavery any money from them just covers over the problem.
Eric
Eric Jones says
Correction. Reparations programs are limited because they do not deal with the unjust application of power.
Eric
don vito says
What of the arab Europe Slave Trade? The turk Europe slave trade? Almost every European country from the Atlantic Ocean to Ural Mountains experienced moslem slave trade for centuries.
gravenimage says
Grimly true.
gravenimage says
Muslim Arab Reparations for Black Africa
…………………..
Yes–you never hear about this. It is always the Untied States, despite our civil war to end slavery. Whereas, it has *never* ended in the Muslim world–slavery is still rife in places like Sudan and Mauritania.
You don’t hear about reparations in places like Brazil, either–only in the US, because we are wealthy, concerned with justice, and–sadly–often suckers for really bad arguments.
CRUSADER says
Astonished how savvy people can be in obtaining knowledge and wealth —-
Yet how tremendously stupid and weak when it comes to losing it…
gravenimage says
Grimly true, CRUSADER.
CRUSADER says
Ah! Life is far too short for reaching back and bringing forth “compensations”!
How would Rumi compare to this “Careless Galant” poem by Thomas Jordan:
“Let Us Drink and Be Merry!”
—————————————
Let us drink and be merry, dance, joke and rejoice,
With claret and sherry, theorbo and voice;
The changeable world to our joy is unjust,
All treasure uncertain, then down with your dust;
In frolics dispose your pounds, shillings, and pence,
For we shall be nothing a hundred years hence.
We’ll sport and be free with Frank, Betty, and Dolly,
Have lobsters and oysters to cure melancholy;
Fish dinners will make a man spring like a flea,
Dame Venus, love’s lady, was born of the sea;
With her and with Bacchus we’ll tickle the sense,
For we shall be past it a hundred years hence.
Your beautiful bit who hath all eyes upon her,
That her honesty sells for a hogo of honor,
Whose lightness and brightness doth shine in such splendor
That none but the stars are thought fit to attend her,
Though now she be pleasant and sweet to the sense,
Will be damnable mouldy a hundred years hence.
Then why should we turmoil in cares and in fears,
Turn all our tranquillity to sighs and tears?
Let’s eat, drink and play till the worms do corrupt us,
For I say that Post mortem nulla voluptas;
Let’s deal with our damsels, that we may from thence
Have broods to succeed us a hundred years hence.
Your usurer that in the hundred takes twenty,
Who wants in his wealth and pines in his plenty,
Lays up for a season which he shall ne’er see,
The year of one thousand eight hundred and three
Shall have changed all his bags, his houses and rents
For a worm-eaten coffin a hundred years hence.
Your Chancery lawyer, who by “conscience” thrives
In spinning a suit to the length of three lives,
A suit which the client doth wear out in slavery,
Whilst pleader makes “conscience” a cloak for his knavery,
May boast of his subtlety i’ th’ present tense,
But non est inventus a hundred years hence.
Your most Christian monsieur who rants it in riot,
Not suffering his more Christian neighbors live quiet,
Whose numberless legions that to him belongs
Consists of more nations than Babel had tongues,
Though numerous as dust, in despite of defence,
Shall all lie in ashes a hundred years hence.
We mind not the councils of such bloody elves;
Let us set foot to foot, and be true to ourselves;
Our honesty from our good-fellowship springs;
We aim at no selfish preposterous things.
We’ll seek no preferment by subtle pretence,
Since all shall be nothing a hundred years hence.
Angemon says
And of Arabs and Africans to Europeans – specifically, Italy, Spain, Portugal and France. And of Turks to Slavs.
Wellington says
+1
Eric Jones says
+ 1 Europeans as slave victims is frequently over looked.
Eric
End PC says
“and [slaves] literally built the wealth of the United States and Europe”
What a disgusting & stupid lie, as if most of even hard labor was done by slaves. She thinks, and many other morons evidently also think, slaves were the only work force that counted. The millions of non-slave laborers, builders, carpenters, engineers, architects, business creators, etc, just didnt count for the wealth building in her little brain. Just the slave labor. Such idiocy like this we keep hearing.
Yohanan says
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade#See_also
Wiki adds more info, including entries on “Slavery in 21st-century Islamism” and slave rebellions in Islamic lands. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zanj_Rebellion
First thing is to remember the history of the evil of slavery, the hard won morals against slavery and to enforce laws to abolish slavery wherever.
The issue of reparations in US for descendants of African slaves is political, economic question. Affirmative (preferential protection) action is already a positive part of that.
Vann Boseman says
First of all, reparations for slavery are not owed to blacks in the United States or Africa. While I appreciate the desire to hold responsible groups who were involved in a slave trade, it is a misuse of history to attempt this. Such an attempt would represent presentism at its worse raising a plethora of immoral, complex questions that would do nothing but incite anger and bigotry over time. (There are many examples of such immoral questions, many of which are unanswerable: What if you have black dna in your makeup? What if you are white, but none of your ancestors owned slaves? What if some of your ancestors owned slaves, but others did not? What if you are white, but one of your ancestors was an abolitionist? What if you are Coptic Christian and have ancestors who were hired by Muslims to perform castrations? What if you are an Arab who had Muslim ancestors who participated in the trans-Saharan slave trade, but you left Islam?)
While “possession is nine tenths of the law” may be technically wrong, it provides a good generalization of what I believe to be a good starting point for defending present real and chattel property. Western notions of law are an important bulwark of civilized society. It is hard to imagine a scenario of a legal system that would enforce reparations that would not also bankrupt the country where pursuing reparations was attempted.
Next, history, honestly and openly presented, is important. People are not perfect. Also, values of people in the past are not the same as values people have today. It can often happen that values popular to people in the past are very difficult to understand. Presentism not only hampers understanding of the past, but also leads to bias intentional and not intentional when values a person has in the present are brought to an attempt to understand the past. History involves the good, the bad, and the ugly of real people who lived their lives in a certain way. It is an injustice to these people to misrepresent them.
It may be that Fitzgerald has pursued historians that were timid and cowardly, or it may be that Fitzgerald was timid and cowardly in presenting 40 million boys who died from castration in preparation for the Muslim slave markets. Other historians, logic, and contemporary observers all report evidence of a much larger scale. Take Fitzgerald’s numbers of castrated males reaching the slave markets and consider that 1 in 20 made it to those markets alive after being castrated, cauterized with red hot rods, and forced to walk across the Saharan desert. Contemporary reports indicate 1 in 10, so let’s just consider that to try to understand the scale of the atrocity since contemporary reports from East Africa reported the same 1 in 10 figure. Using the 1 in 10 estimate, Fitzgerald’s estimate of 40 million goes up to 140 -170 million, though this is still probably unrealistically low even considering that women had a better chance of surviving. It is higher and it makes a difference overall. Fitzgerald reports, when you do the math, that one and a half million blacks died along the middle passage. Even considering that this estimate is probably low considering those who did not survive the trek to the western port areas, the dramatic comparison of being a black male destined for slavery going east and one going west becomes not much of a comparison at all. I suggest that being a black male destined for slavery in the east would not bode well for your future prospects to be alive compared to being destined for the west.
If you were one of the “fortunate” males to survive to be a slave to Muslims east of Africa, your prospects would likely be that of slaves largely comparable to slaves in other places and other times. More women made it to the markets, but their fortune was not as likely to be as good, living shorter lives, and generally being required to kill any offspring they may have had.
Reziac says
These numbers are probably greatly exaggerated. In 1900 all of Africa was estimated to have a max population of 10 million (and possibly as low as 2 million) and huge swaths of land were entirely vacant; the population only began growing after Western agriculture started feeding it.
Otherwise, tho — yeah, fortunate the slave who went west rather than east.
gravenimage says
All good questions, Vann.
Capitalist-Dad says
Workers’ Compensation and 401K? Seriously! That’s what this brain dead panderer actually said? No one had Workers’ Compensation coverage until 1914 when it was first enacted by US states. The 401K plans weren’t invented until it became obvious that defined benefit pensions were financially impossible. In the immortal words of Bugs Bunny, “What a maroon!” Besides slavery is not the problem. We should look to the Democrats’ “Great Society” welfare programs. That’s what destroyed Black and minority families (along with poor white ones) by creating incentives for a society where fathers were optional. How’s that working out?
Reziac says
” those enslaved Africans did not receive workman’s comp, salary, 401(k), or anything”
Ya know what? Neither did anyone else. The majority of whites worked subsistence farms or were sharecroppers who traded as they could but didn’t get paid, or if they were lucky worked 12 hours a day in what we’d now call a sweatshop for pennies a day. NO ONE got workman’s comp or 401(k), and damn few got salaries.
Here’s the big problem with these dumbass dhimmicrats: not a one of ’em knows anything about history beyond a litany of gibsmedat complaints.
Bazz12 says
A couple of points never made;
The progress of civilisation has always been dependant on energy. Slaves were one step in that progress as slaves are cheap energy. All through history slavery provided a means to get to the next stage. Europeans were also taken as slaves by Arab slave traders, even voyaging to Iceland especially to take blonde girls as they fetched a premium price.
Britain was engaged in the slave trade until the Industrial revolution made slaves too expensive compared to steam engines. The Arabs however follow Mohammad’s practice so being a slave owner is prestigious.
gravenimage says
Actually, slavery is not just morally repugnant, it has generally *retarded* progress, even for the slavers. Even before the Civil War in the US, the free North proved to be more prosperous than the South, and the West had outstripped the progress of the Muslim world even before steam power and the Industrial Revolution.
AP says
She must have gotten her education out of a Cracker Jack box