All that this dialogue has led to is Christian leaders being quiet about Muslim persecution of Christians, for fear of offending their dialogue partners. Has this been reciprocated by Muslims? Have Muslim spokesmen stopped being critical of Christians and Christianity? Of course not. The “dialogue” is all dawah on one side and Useful Idiots, eager to be deceived, on the other.
Robert McManus, Roman Catholic Bishop of Worcester, Massachusetts, said it on February 8, 2013 as he was suppressing a planned talk (by me) at a Catholic conference on that persecution: “Talk about extreme, militant Islamists and the atrocities that they have perpetrated globally might undercut the positive achievements that we Catholics have attained in our inter-religious dialogue with devout Muslims.”
Remember that Mohamed Atta, about the plane he had hijacked on September 11, 2001, told passengers over the intercom: “Stay quiet and you’ll be OK.” The Catholic Church appears to have adopted that statement as its policy regarding Muslim persecution of Christians.
“Leave them; they are blind guides. And if a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit.” (Matthew 15:14)
“Pope Francis Praises New Interreligious Initiative for World Peace,” by William Mahoney, ChurchMilitant, August 28, 2019:
VATICAN CITY (ChurchMilitant.com) – Pope Francis lauded a new initiative Monday to implement a joint interreligious document on world peace that he and the grand imam of al-Azhar signed in February.
The initiative, a higher committee established in Abu Dhabi Aug. 19 to ensure the objectives of the “Document on Human Fraternity for World Peace and Living Together” are met, includes Vatican and Muslim officials.
This ‘Document on Human Fraternity’ is full of outrageously false and misleading statements.
TweetPope Francis praised the new initiative in a press release from the Holy See on Wednesday:
Although sadly evil, hatred and division often make news, there is a hidden sea of goodness that is growing and leads us to hope in dialogue, reciprocal knowledge and the possibility of building, together with the followers of other religions and all men and women of good will, a world of fraternity and peace.
Church Militant spoke with Robert Spencer, the director of Jihad Watch and a Shillman fellow at the David Horowitz Freedom Center, about the document and this new initiative.
“This ‘Document on Human Fraternity’ is full of outrageously false and misleading statements,” he said. “One is the claim that terrorism is due to ‘an accumulation of incorrect interpretations of religious texts and to policies linked to hunger, poverty, injustice, oppression and pride.'”
Spencer explained how this claim about terrorism is false and misleading:
If terrorists’ interpretations of Islamic religious texts are incorrect, then so are the interpretations of those texts by all the schools of Islamic jurisprudence, all of which, without exception, teach the necessity of the Islamic community worldwide to wage war against unbelievers and subjugate them under the hegemony of Islamic law.
Bishop Miguel Guixot, president of the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue and a member of the higher committee, offered a different interpretation of “Document on Human Fraternity” in an interview with Vatican News:
I think the Abu Dhabi declaration is a global appeal to the ‘civilization of love’ that contrasts with those who want a clash of civilizations! Prayer, dialogue, respect and solidarity are the only winning weapons against terrorism, fundamentalism and all kinds of war and violence. They are weapons that are part of the spiritual arsenals of all religions. Peace is a precious good, an aspiration that lives in the heart of every man, a believer or not, and which should inspire every human action.
Spencer disagrees that dialogue is a winning weapon against terrorism: “Pope Francis’ much-vaunted ‘dialogue’ has never saved one Christian from being persecuted by Muslims, or prevented one church from being destroyed by jihadis. Nor will it ever do these things, as it is based on fantasy and wishful thinking, not on reality.”…
James says
I quite agree that the dialogue is mere window dressing. The Muslims have no pope to enforce any doctrinal interpretation that Francis believes that he is advancing in Islam. And the attacks go on despite things he and others have said about peaceful Islam. the Pope probably only reads the Readers Digest Condensed Koran, and perhaps also the condensed Christian scriptures. He probably never reads anything by Robert Spencer, Bill Warner or others on the Islamic movement and its goals.The Muslims took over the main churches and city of the Orthodox Greek Christian church and converted them to Islamic mosques. What if that had happened to Catholic Churches?
GreekEmpress says
+1
This agreement isn’t worth the paper it’s written on!
will rodgers says
The Muhammadan Pagan cult was born out of conquest and murder,Muhammad was a fierce war monger. His Tribes follow in his shadow, and it a shadow of evil conquest. Every muhammadan document spells out their goal of conquest and subjugation. There is nothing about peace;only conquest. Further every tribal muhammadan is told to use their Taqiyya or outright lies to subvert their message so the infidel [ Christians, Jews and other legitimate religions will fall for lies like these] The pope is a pawn of their manipulation, and the catholics could slow down or end the violent persecutions against them and others if they would quickly remove this Pope and find one who actually follows the Holy Scriptures, and not some leftist, globalist political agenda.
Rob says
Al Azhar U in Cairo the highest authority on Sunni Islam, still refuses to declare Isis acts and doctrine ‘heretical’.
If it ain’t heretical, it’s mainstream. How can Frankie condone a dialogue with such people?
Paul J says
You can only have a constructive dialogue with men and women of “good will”. Islam has no concept of that, only deceit and lies towards kaffirs. The charlatan in the Vatican knows that quite well. He is evil personified.
Joe says
“Men of good will” comes from the angel’s announcement to the shepherds on Christmas night. It is one of the 9 conditions of salvation in the Church, but Jesus is the judge. The problem is that most of the Koran was not wrote by a man of “good will”. In fact, in the first few pages, you will find “Do not be friends with the unbelievers” almost on every page. No man of “good will” would ever write that. Their “prophet” and model was a warlord (not a man of good will). Anyone who doesn’t want to admit that is a liar. That includes the pope.
Reziac says
Francis is a committed Marxist (and it’s not like they didn’t know that when they elected him, which says a lot about Catholic leadership). Islam boils down to proto-Marxism with enough hellfire pasted on top to keep the peons in line. Both beat you with a stick and tell you that “Your business is rejoicing!” Francis responds, “Please, sir, may I have another?”
The only priest of my acquaintance, when I asked his thoughts about Francis, shook his head and clamped his mouth shut.
David Pimentel says
“[T]he dialogue is mere window dressing” only if one prefers to dress one’s windows with soft, rolled paper covered in human waste.
FYI says
francis and ahmed would like to invite you to their wedding….
francis and his muslim brother from a different mother:they have the same father though,the father of lies..
the koran CURSES Christians k9:30 and denies everything about Jesus christ:logically and theologically allah cannot be the SAME as the Christian God.
Never in History has Catholic Theology or Christian Theology equated the two.
Until now,under francis:the pope of islam
mortimer says
One of the methods of canonical Islam is to eliminate other religions through gradualismm practiced with deception and the suppression of information. Francis like a gullible Pollyanna has freely walked into this trap. His naivety should be roundly criticized by everyone who is informed about Islam. A contract based on deception and suppression of game-changing information is a dangerous trap.
Roman Catholics are being killed and persecuted by Muslims around the world almost every day. Francis is wrong to ignore it.
A bishop and a bishop of Rome should be better-informed about Islam than this, and have to tell the truth about threats to the faithful under his cure. Falsehoods told by Francis about the intentions and teachings of Islam are his naive wishful thinking or outright lies.
The pope has a moral duty first to inform himself about Islam’s supremacist mission, motive and methods. He is simply making up his own ‘facts’ about Islam out of whole cloth.
One of the traditional strengths of Roman Catholic education in the has been intellectual rigor to pursue truth through science. This intellectual tradition is being suppressed by Francis in the matter of Islam.
There are many Roman Catholic scholars, and many in the clergy, who are experts on Islam, jihad and the threats against Christianity coming from Islam. Francis is failing to lead with information when he ignores the voices of his own scholars and makes up his own facts.
Rachel Silver says
He is not naive, he is one of the most evil, sinister creeps to ever set foot on earth! If he isn’t the false prophet, I don’t know who is..!
CRUSADER says
Kasperian conspiracy?
=================
If Kasperism is the heresy I believe it to be, it is the most dangerous sort of error ever invented by Satan.
Why? Because it is untouchable.
Arius and his followers made no denial of their belief that Christ was not eternal or of the same substance as God, but rather, merely a creature. They were confronted for what they believed, and for the error they taught.
Kasperians, on the other hand, pride themselves on dissimulation. They make a great show of upholding the letter of the law, while utterly destroying it in spirit. If one were to say to the Kasperians, “What you are saying contradicts dogma!”, they would merely respond, “No! We affirm the dogma.” In so doing, they effectively disarm those who would seek to point out their errors, forcing them to make the case that they are liars and spreading confusion in their wake. For this reason, Kasperism ought to be fought with even greater vehemence than the Arian heresy, for it is much more deceptive in nature, and has the potential to do even more harm.
https://onepeterfive.com/is-kasperism-a-new-heresy/
Paul J says
Jorgey boy is not naive, he knows exactly what he’s doing. Evil personified.
dan says
my thoughts exacty
will rodgers says
Got that right his plans are calculated and pre meditated
Islam_Is Islam says
@Paul J: Jorgey Boy is an anti-pope and likely Forerunner to the False Prophet or the False Prophet himself. If you will, please check out the evidence of this unprecedented ontological reality: https://nonvenipacem.com/2019/09/01/i-have-great-news-about-the-newly-announced-consistory/ and https://www.ppbxvi.org/quaestio-English.pdf
Islam_Is Islam says
@Mortimer: Bergoglio is not pope according to Canon Law itself. Benedict resigned the ministerium not the munus. The black-and-white evidence is purposefully being ignored by those in authority, of course. The latest elevation of “Cardinals” is yet another “final straw” (how many will there be?). Veri Catholici is an international organization getting the word out and ppbxvi.org as well as Non Veni Pacem have pertinent discussion here: https://www.ppbxvi.org/quaestio-English.pdf https://nonvenipacem.com/2019/09/01/i-have-great-news-about-the-newly-announced-consistory/ If you haven’t already, I hope that you will read through the information.
CRUSADER says
But certainly the many Orders follow the lead of Pope Frank …
And, to be more Frank, as they ribbed in “The Godfather”,
…if it looks, walks, waddles, flies, quacks….
somehistory says
And the Bible says to “oppose the devil and he will flee from you.” This pope isn’t opposing him, he has invited him in.
You are so right about the common father between these two filthy humans…both misleading whoever listens to them.
CRUSADER says
Despite abuse allegations, Francis protégé still ’employed by the Vatican’
https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/zanchetta
Islam_Is Islam says
@Crusader: ChurchMilitant (as good as it is) will not allow a discussion of the black-and-white evidence that Benedict is Pope: he resigned the ministerium not the munus. Simon Rafe has banned me for offering to get the evidence into their hands for their own examination. I suspect for them to consider the facts of the matter probably disables some of their funding sources. Check it out yourself and please pass it along should you consider it substantiation of reality. https://www.ppbxvi.org/quaestio-English.pdf and https://nonvenipacem.com/2019/09/01/i-have-great-news-about-the-newly-announced-consistory/
Sherri Lynch says
According to the oath that I understand is taken by Jesuits and the Koran that the Imams follow, they both have the same ambition … to take over the world. Follow Jesus Christ. He only is the way, the truth and the life. John 14:6, John 11 http://www.biblegateway.com
Terry Gain says
Sherri Lynch.
The oath that you understand? Why the weasel words? Jesuits sign an oath to kill infidels? Are you serious? Post the oath or apologize.
mortimer says
Sherri, no Jesuit takes a vow to ‘take over the world’. Jesuits take a much-misunderstood fourth vow, unique to Jesuits, of special obedience to the pope in matters regarding mission. Perhaps you misunderstand that fourth vow.
Christianity divides between divine and secular duties. Jesus said, “Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s and unto God the things that are God’s.” Many modern Roman Catholics see this as a division between the church and state.
However, Mohammed said the following: Narrated Mujashi: My brother and I came to the Prophet and I requested him to take the pledge of allegiance from us for migration. He said, “Migration has passed away with its people.” I asked, “For what will you take the pledge of allegiance from us then?” He (Mohammed) said, “I will take (the pledge) for Islam and jihad.” – Bukhari 4,52,208
In Islam, there is no separation between the Islamic state and the mosque. Jihad is a political activity prosecuted by the Islamic state or by vigilante Muslims.
SweetOlBob says
Mortimer:
I was raised Roman Catholic and was taught that the Pope was infallible in matters of faith and morals. But seeing this muslim kissing , sorry excuse for a spiritual leader SICKENS ME !
This is one of the reasons (among others) that I no longer practice the faith.
There is no way I can see myself passing over this display of sucking cancer. And islam IS a cancer !
Wellington says
Sherri: Your post does not help the cause of truth as Terry Gain and mortimer have in their own way already pointed out.
To fight evil, you must be smart and accurate. Well, Sherri, you may be smart, still don’t know about this, but respecting accuracy so far you are woeful. Methinks you are a Protestant of some sort with very little knowledge of the other two main divisions of Christianity—Roman Catholicism and Orthodoxy. Learn.
gravenimage says
Terry, Mortimer, and Wellington are spot on here. Sherri, you are mistaken (at best) in claiming that Jesuits swear such an oath.
CRUSADER says
GravenImage,
Do you really believe that “Mohammed/Muhammad” said such things?
— Or — would you more likely believe that this supposed historical figure was fabricated and pieced together, as were the Koran and Sunna, so that warlords could control the masses, convert the conquered, and excuse their abusive behaviors?
Reziac says
As you say, Mohammad was probably a convenient amalgam by later warlords, but the name serves as a useful shorthand for “all the rabid wolves that invented Islam, as it has come down to the present”.
And it doesn’t matter if Mohammad existed or said such things, or if it was all made up from whole cloth 200 years later. Muslims *believe* it, and behave accordingly, and that is what we have to deal with.
CRUSADER says
This becomes what we have to use to show Muslims
the folly of following Islam ☪️—
The False Faith — The River Of Blood !
gravenimage says
CRUSADER wrote:
GravenImage,
Do you really believe that “Mohammed/Muhammad” said such things?
— Or — would you more likely believe that this supposed historical figure was fabricated and pieced together, as were the Koran and Sunna, so that warlords could control the masses, convert the conquered, and excuse their abusive behaviors?
……………………..
I leave this as an open question, CRUSADER. I am well aware that there is little evidence for such a historic figure.
At the same time, the “Prophet” Muhammed is evil is such *specific* ways that it seems likely to me–although unproven–that he is based on a real figure or is an amalgamation of several figures.
I care deeply about history, but I also know that on a certain level it does not much matter if Muhammed was a historical figure or not–Muslims certainly believe that he existed, and consider the foul deeds attributed to him to be a model for all time.
So I will sometimes refer to the actions of Muhammed, because this is how Muslims regard the issue, while realizing that these may have been invented at a later date.
Gloria Stewart says
This reminds me of a story I heard during the Cold War. Just substitute Muslims for Communists. On a farm the farmer was troubled by mice eating his grain. To solve the problem he acquired a cat. The mice were furious and called for a meeting hoping for a reconciliation. The chief mouse had the following proposal. He sad to the farmer “You don’t get a cat; we don’t get a cat.”
CRUSADER says
Huh?
I like cats. So I guess I don’t get humor about cats….
IanB says
I like cats too. But I get it Gloria.
Alarmed Pig Farmer says
Moslems are very good at doing their own lying, but in their infinite hairy wisdom know that it’s even more effective to have the enemy lie on your behalf.
Av says
Be wary of Muslims bearing “myths”
DBM echo says
Robert McManus, RCC Bishop of Worcester, Massachusetts = as representative of the spineless bishops as you’re ever gonna find.
Lets all drink and drive to that, heh, Padre?
mortimer says
McManus was trying to slavishly follow his orders from above, but he was mistaken for suppressing information that reveals the supremacist agenda of Islam. If you read the Koran, you are struck by how often Christians are condemned in it. It’s a formula for suppressing Christianity. A bishop should be aware of this supremacism.
McManus is not doing his homework about Islam.
Jim says
Dialogue is good if it is honest dialog. But that isn’t what the Pope is doing. And I’m guessing that the “Vicar of Christ on Earth” hasn’t tried to convert any Muslim leaders to faith in Christ, something which should be of the highest priority to the alleged “Vicar of Christ on Earth.”
Liz says
+1
Gary fouse says
Interfaith dialogue is worse than useless. It is counter productive and designed to lull Christians and Jews to sleep.
James Lincoln says
Call me naïve, but I thought that the primary duty of the Pope was to promote Christianity throughout the world.
In contrast, his primary duty seems to be to promote the legitimization of Islam.
Wellington says
James: Popes traditionally have been shrewd, wise and well informed (even the rascally ones like Alexander VI) and staunch defenders of the Church, but Francis does not fit the mold here as your post accurately indicates.
I’m not sure what he’s up to but whatever it is it’s not something either good or sapient. Put another way, the man is a disgrace as you, I and countless others have already gathered. He remains, sadly, an ongoing tragedy for Roman Catholicism, for Christianity in general, for Western Civilization and for freedom.
James Lincoln says
Absolutely true, Wellington.
The world was a lot better off with Pope Benedict XVI. I remember reading about his lecture years back at the University of Regensburg in Bavaria when he noted that Islam is a religion inherently flawed by fanaticism – and he spoke about the violence in Islam.
As I recall, he was widely criticized for this lecture.
I’m not sure if this all helped to usher in Pope Francis but I know one thing:
The world owes Pope Benedict XVI an apology.
Wellington, you are a highly intelligent and insightful person. I enjoy your posts – and learn much.
Enjoy your evening.
SAFI says
Benedict helped usher in Francis by quitting his job – the first Pope to do so in centuries – for some unspecified reason.
CRUSADER says
“On this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.”
More Americans today are hungry for the spiritual than perhaps at any other time in history. It seems people are in a search mode. That is not to say there are more Christians or even more people in our churches, necessarily. But there is a tangible sense that people are searching for more in life.
Clearly, this is a defining moment for the church to offer the answers people are looking for. But as a familiar song says, we are looking for love in all the wrong places. Many people today are looking for truth in all the wrong places. And it seems they are willing to go anywhere but to church to find it.
Why would people not want to go to church? This question has caught the attention of pastors and experts in the field. So a trend of market-driven churches has developed, essentially adapting to the desires, wants, and even the passing whims of our culture today, in an attempt to attract people and do whatever it takes to get them inside.
But it causes one to wonder, what is the purpose of the church? Has God put the church on this earth for a particular reason? It is very important that we know the answer to these questions.
There is much talk about new ideas, when, in reality, we need old ideas back again. The principles that worked for the first century church will work for ours. And if the Lord tarries, they will work for the generations after us, because some things never change. We need to get back to the principles God laid down. We need to be a church built on the Rock.
Matthew 16:18
https://harvest.org/resources/devotion/built-on-the-rock/
Dapto says
Until the Church to sells all its stuff and the Pope and priests live on the streets until they have done that its all BS.
Terry Gain says
What good would that do? Do you live on the street?
Dapto says
It would show that they are not the hypocrites, liars and Nazi supporters like you Terry.
gravenimage says
Wait–not wanting Priests to have live on the street makes you a Nazi supporter? How many Protestant Ministers live on the street?
And is this the grotesque smear claiming that Pope Pius XII supported the Nazis? This is *quite* false, and the Catholic Church did a great deal to rescue endangered Jews. Dapto either knows this or should know it.
This is utter calumny against Terry Gain and the Catholic Church.
david007luke@gmail.com says
didnt judas say the same thing? “this perfume could have been sold to feed the poor”
Wellington says
Dapto: Your comment about Catholic clergy needing to live on the streets is absurd and Terry Gain is neither a hypocrite, nor a liar, nor a Nazi.
Have you ever given any consideration to actually acquiring knowledge accompanied by a judicious reasoning capacity before demonstrating just how deficient you are?
mgoldberg says
I haven’t seen anything from him, as yet, but this is from back in 2007, when the Catholic scholar wrote an article; at the time the Pope was Benedict, he who had invited Oriana Fallaci to bring him information regarding the problems of Islam, and I’ll post it here. His commentary and see how far the papacy and the church have fallen:
A disappointing call for dialogue
On Hamza Yusuf Hanson’s latest hoax, the “fatwa of 138”
by George Weigel
Denver Catholic Register
November 7, 2007
Note: CIP has not commented on the latest hoax perpetrated by Hamza Yusuf Hanson and his clique, the letter of 138 Muslims addressed to the Pope. George Weigel, a respected Catholic commentator, has published this important article on this incident.
On October 11, at the end of Islam’s holy month of Ramadan, 138 Muslims from around the world addressed a letter to Pope Benedict XVI and numerous other Christian leaders. Entitled “A Common Word Between Us and You,” the letter was released in a media-savvy rollout in several world capitals and was welcomed with enthusiasm by one of the addressees, Canterbury’s Rowan Williams. Cardinal Jean-Louis Tauran, president of the reconstituted Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue, was cordial but cautious, suggesting that while there were certainly things to talk about based on a shared commitment to the two Great Commandments of love of God and love of neighbor, there were also many difficulties.
Something else struck me about “A Common Word” and the media commentary on it: both the letter’s signatories and the reporters writing about it seemed unaware of the proposal for framing a new dialogue between Christianity and Islam made by the Holy Father last December, in his Christmas address to the Roman Curia. There, Benedict XVI proposed that the dialogue focus on the question of how religious traditions assimilate the positive achievements of the Enlightenment. Those achievements include the victory of the idea of religious freedom as an inalienable human right – a human right that, acknowledged in law and thus erected into a civil right, leads to distinctions between religious and political authority in a just state.
Catholicism, the Pope reminded the Curia, had spent the better part of two centuries trying to find solutions to the questions of faith, freedom, and governance posed by the Enlightenment, a process that bore fruit at the Second Vatican Council. Might there be something in this Catholic experience of retrieval-and-renewal for a Christian-Islamic dialogue to ponder?
These do seem to be the most urgent questions. For unless Islam can find within its own spiritual resources a way to legitimate religious freedom and the distinction between religious and political authority, the relationship between two billion Christians and a billion Muslims is going to remain fraught with tension. “A Common Word” speaks at length about the two Great Commandments; it says nothing about their applicability to issues of faith, freedom, and the governance of society: issues posed, for example, by the death threats visited upon Muslims who convert to Christianity and by the refusal to allow Christian public worship in Saudi Arabia. “A Common Word” also seems rather defensive, as if it were 21st century Christians who, in considerable numbers, were justifying the murder of innocents in advancing the cause of God. But that is manifestly not the case.
Knowledgeable analysts of Islamic affairs have also raised questions about the composition of the “138,” which includes a considerable number of government functionaries as well as figures with connections to Wahhabism, the fanatic sect whose teachings and financial influence inflame so much Islamist agitation around the world. Be that as it may – and it’s not an insignificant thing – I would suggest that the better approach would be to ask the people who put “A Common Word” together why the Pope’s invitation of last December was not addressed.
Do these 138 Muslims agree or disagree that religious freedom and the distinction between religious and political authority are the issues at the heart of today’s tensions between Islam and the West – indeed, Islam and the rest? Would it not be more useful to concentrate on these urgent issues of practical reason (which bear on the organization of 21st century societies) than to frame the dialogue in terms of a generic exploration of the two Great Commandments (which risks leading to an exchange of banalities)? Why not get down to cases?
It is of the utmost importance for the human future that a genuine interreligious dialogue unfold between Islam and Christianity (and Judaism, which is largely ignored in “A Common Word”). Genuine dialogue requires a precise focus, and a commitment by the dialogue partners to condemn by name those members of their communities who murder in the name of God. It is unfortunate that “A Common Word” took us no closer to cementing either of these building blocks of genuine dialogue into place.
[George Weigel is a senior fellow of the Ethics and Public Policy Center in Washington, D.C. Weigel’s column is distributed by the Denver Catholic Register, the official newspaper of the Archdiocese of Denver.]
aef says
Roman Catholicism has always been the greatest perpetrator of heresy in the so called Christian world, Islam is an Antichrist religion period, as specifically defined in Biblical text. Islamics are literally accursed by specific biblical text as are all Antichrist cults. It is no surprise a heretical pagan fusion religion and an Antichrist cult would seek to join with each other, as both serve Satanic agendas in differing ways. Both groups are liars and deceivers and deflectors and have never been trustworthy since their inception. Don’t expect individuals let alone massive groups with hundreds of millions of followers to ever change, they only shift the location of pieces in an attempt to pander when under temporary attack which always passes.
gravenimage says
Again, Catholics are not the only Christians to engage in foolish “interfaith dialog” with Muslims.
CogitoErgoSum says
Here is a link to a copy of the document itself:
https://w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/travels/2019/outside/documents/papa-francesco_20190204_documento-fratellanza-umana.html
My first thoughts on reading the document are that I need to have certain words and terms used in the document to be more specifically defined. Those words and terms are as follows:
1. God
2. Religion
3. Believer
4. Non-believer
5. Family
6. Extremism (particularly religious extremism)
7. Full citizenship
8. Minority (and how its use takes away religious and civil rights)
9. Finally, I would like to know the difference between violence that is deplorable and violence that is not deplorable
somehistory says
If you get the definitions, please share them. Not holding my breath.
CogitoErgoSum says
As a Roman Catholic I find at least a partial definition of God in the Nicene Creed which I repeat every Sunday at my church. God is made up of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. If this document is in the name of God then it would appear that Muslims believe in the same God as I do, but I know they reject a definition of God which includes a Father, Son and Holy Spirit. So how can this be a document expressing a shared believe in the same God? Has either the Roman Catholic Church or Al-Azhar (or both) changed the definition of God?
Furthermore, the document states it is made on behalf of the Catholic Church and all Catholics of the East and West. Does this Pope have the authority to speak on behalf of the Eastern Orthodox Catholics and others who do no accept his authority over them? In like manner the document states also that it is made by Al-Azhar and the Muslims of the East and West. Does Al-Azhar have the authority to speak on behalf of ALL the Muslims in the world — Sunni and Shia and others?
There are a lot of things to discuss about this very short document.
CogitoErgoSum says
Just one more thing. If Al-Azhar and the Pope say they both believe in the same God, then their God must be a liar because in the Bible Jesus says that He and God (whom Jesus addresses as Father) are one, but in the Quran God says it is beneath His dignity to have a son. If God says one thing in the Bible but exactly the opposite in the Quran, that is lying. However, in my book God does not lie — EVER. I can only conclude that this document is not talking about the same God in which I believe …. so I guess according to both the Pope and Al-Azhar I am a non-believer. Wow!
Lilith Wept says
IMO one thing invalidates this document…..that Islam Denys that Christ was the son of God, and that He died and was raised from the dead.
And having studied Islam for years now, the things Muhammed did prove that he was not a prophet , speaking for God. .Muhammad was as far from the example of a Biblical prophet as a human can get! My God would not have sent such an ungodly, sinning and sinful man with such a hate filled heart, as His Representative.
And the things that Muhammed claimed that God commanded moslems to do , the horrible violence and hatred, prove that the god of the Moslems is NOT the god of Abraham. My God would never have wanted people to do such things , especially not in His name!
And in my opinion, it’s that our Goverment and many people be,ieve that Islam is similar to Christianity and Judaism, that we all worship the same God. And that Islam is “ just another religion” one of many religions that have come to the West and made a home here.
And as long as we keep believing this and treating Islam as just another religion, Islam will keep spreading and getting stronger and stronger.
When we wake up and acknowledge that Islam is a dangerous political ideology, the opposite of everything the West stands for, ……and start treating Islam as a threat, as a dangerous political ideology that deeply hates the West and will never stop trying to destroy the west ….then we will have taken the first step to defeating Islam and saving our country tries, our civilization and our freedoms and rights…..
Islam has become the unofficial , undeclared “State Religion” in many Western counties, with Islam and Moslem given a free pass for acts and statements that no other religion is allowed to do or say!
Cause our leaders aren’t understanding Islam, and it’s goals…..Because leaders aren’t acknowledging that Islam’s goal is to spread Islam all over the world, then all this appeasement and pandering to Islam and moslems every whim, just encourages moslems to demand even more. They see us as weak and rightly so!! All of their demands are met, ( some before they even been verbalized!)
……we bend over backwards and even allow our children to be sacrificed on the Alter of “ Dont offend the moslems!”
And all this constant appeasing and giving in to every little demand, just says to moslems is that we are weak ,we are pushovers……
And that they can keep on demanding more and more . Moslems can demand that we change everything , our culture, our laws, everything , to make it more “Islamic”
…I’m sure they are wondering how much they can get away with demanding….is there a point where we will stand up and tell moslems “ Hell no! We’ve had enough! Get the hell out of my country,” ??
Or will we keep right on giving in and appeasing and just completely give our country to moslems and Islam….?
I’m not sure what the answer is …I do know that it’s not what we are doing right now…..
I do believe that if we are to keep our countries ours, to keep the West free and our rights intact, that we must draw a line somewhere……..
don vito says
lilith wept: don vito also wept. +50. So wonderfully and beautifully posted
CRUSADER says
Satanic influences are clearly behind Islam and its appeal and its promotion.
will rodgers says
Muhammadans do not accept the Trinity. They see Jesus as a mere Prophet who tried to raise HIMSELF TO THE LEVEL OF God. Their Trinity is Allah, Mary and Jesus as they view as their son
gravenimage says
Good post, Lilith Wept.
Isntlam says
Never trust men who wear dresses.
CRUSADER says
SEATTLE BISHOP APPROVES FUNERAL FOR GAY SHAMAN WHO COMMITTED SUICIDE
https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/seattle-bishop-approves-catholic-funeral-for-unrepentant-homosexual-who-committed-suicide
Isntlam says
I guess we’re just not that inclusive.
d says
Sardonic, ….nice.
don vito says
Sardonic…..nice
don vito says
well where is my post?
don vito says
sorry about the 2nd post, trouble with you know who.
Av says
Be wary of Muslims who come bearing myths
somehistory says
In Jesus’ warning to His followers, He spoke of ” false prophets who are wolves in sheep’s clothing.” (Matthew 7:1-29 )
These would come in and according to the Apostle Paul, would be “savage” and they would work to “make disciples for themselves.”
This kissy-face pope is working in this very way. He is a fake and wants Christians to follow him as he travels the “broad and spacious road, leading to destruction.”
He should try to recall what Jesus Christ said in Matthew 7. To people like him, who claim to have “powerful works”, Christ will say, “I never knew you. Get away from me you lawbreakers .”
Keys says
“Jesus said to him, ‘Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?’ “
Lk 22:48
somehistory says
+10
Rufolino says
The Pope is being had by Islam.
Shameful and unbelievable.
CRUSADER says
Islam is gaining on the Vatican.
Population levels globally are neck and neck….
….with Islam wanting to cut Catholic necks…. eventually.
Keys says
Francis sees himself as a man of peace. Blessed are the peacemakers.
Francis sees himself as loving his enemy. Love your enemies and do good for them.
Francis sees himself as a man of good will. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Francis sees himself as doing what Jesus would do. Thy Will be done.
If this is so, is he being Frank ? (Pun intended).
Does he see Islam as an enemy, and not say so ? Does he know the truth about Islam, and not say so ? Does he not lock his door if he knows the hour the thief is coming ? Does he not expel the wicked man from his midst ?
Does he see the Imams and Mullahs, as hypocrites and like whitewashed tombs, full of dead men’s bones and every kind of filth on the inside, and not say so ? If he is a man of prayer, who is he listening to ?
CRUSADER says
Good set of queries.
Needing answers.
somehistory says
The Apostle Paul wrote: “Whenever they are saying ‘peace and security,’ sudden destruction will be instantly upon them just as the pangs of distress on a pregnant woman. And they will not escape.”
Marigold says
Well said Robert! Pope Francis is neglecting his duty badly in failing to speak up for Christians who are being persecuted by Muslims. Then if I am not mistaken he is also saying that it is God’s will that there is more than one religion.If that were so why did He send His Son to save the world and be crucified? Pope Francis does not have the courage or the wisdom of his predecessor St John Paul 2 who followed Jesus’ example when he courageously denounced godless communism which was Christianity’s number one enemy during his reign. Also Pope Benedict caused a furore when he criticised Islam.
Spiro says
Jesus said “no one come to the father except thru me ”
Pope needs to reread his bible if he has one and the Muslim need to find Jesus and a bible before its to late
Jay says
Look on the bright side. If global warming gets as bad as the pontiff says it will, the Vatican can always freeze the holy water and sell it for Pope sicles.
CRUSADER says
Appeasement leads to subservience!
gravenimage says
Muslim-Catholic document on world peace “full of outrageously false and misleading statements”
All that this dialogue has led to is Christian leaders being quiet about Muslim persecution of Christians, for fear of offending their dialogue partners. Has this been reciprocated by Muslims? Have Muslim spokesmen stopped being critical of Christians and Christianity? Of course not. The “dialogue” is all dawah on one side and Useful Idiots, eager to be deceived, on the other.
……………………
Grimly, this sums it up…
More:
Remember that Mohamed Atta, about the plane he had hijacked on September 11, 2001, told passengers over the intercom: “Stay quiet and you’ll be OK.” The Catholic Church appears to have adopted that statement as its policy regarding Muslim persecution of Christians.
……………………
And this is exactly what it leads to. Suicidal madness.
CRUSADER says
Pope has a crucifixion complex !
alice says
Let’s start from the beginning. Jewish and Christian folk go back many, many centuries. Muslims have really begun there indoctrination as a cult way after Moses and Jesus. I look at this in the following manner. One man who was a mesmerizing pervert and pediphile as we have seen in Manson, Jones in Africa, and many other cult groups persuaded a dumb group of male perverts to follow an overpowering , indulgent , narcissistic ,, indulgent man who is a psychopath with promises of power, control and virgins in death.Having no education…they are as dumb as door knobs and love the bullying of the who world. Their ignorance in being indoctrinated tells a great deal about the level of their IQ.
CRUSADER says
“JIHADIST PSYCHOPATH “ by Jamie Glazov
Dick Smith says
Exodus 20:3-11 King James Version (KJV)
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God,
Don McKellar says
There really isn’t a lot of difference between this and a Pope being silent and nodding during the Nazis and fascist Italy.
Ecosse1314 says
This subject has been done to death on here.
You are wrong about Pius X11 and by now you must know it.
gravenimage says
True, Ecosse.
Lydia Church says
It is impossible to create a ‘civilization of love’ and ‘world peace’ in a world of unrepentant sinners.
I’ve talked about all of this before and how this is what will be pivotal in the end times deception.
The antichrist will (is) building bridges to create a one world religion, government, and eventually economy in the name of tolerance, inclusion, harmony, brotherhood, unity, peace, love, oneness, diversity, etc.
The whole critical thing about this, and why it is bad, is because it denies the gospel of Jesus Christ.
It is not possible to have such a world right now. A person must repent and come to Jesus to be saved from their sins, because sin is the problem. Jesus saves us and transforms us with the new nature through the Holy Spirit, gives us power over sin and we are reconciled to God in that way alone. Thus, we are able to be loving, peaceful, good, do charity, etc. Yet we cannot compromise with false religion and have ‘unity’ with them. Unity is for those who have done the same thing, thus true fellowship only exists in the true church. There are other forms of unity, but not for us. We cannot unite with what is false. But anyway, it is the truly saved person that is able to live a good life. All we have to do is step outside our doorstep and run into all the sinners out there, trying to drive in traffic with all the selfish people out there in the sea of humanity is just ONE of many examples of why world peace without Jesus simply does not work. But the crucial thing is they deny Him and sidestep Him and claim that all of that love and goodness is possible anyway, without the cross. But it isn’t. That is why the world is the way it is today! There are a few Christians compared to the rest of the population, and yes, some others are capable of tiny bits of good at times. But… with all of that, the world is what it is today. THAT is reality! And it won’t change until Jesus returns to fix it like He said, after the apocalypse, and no sooner. Most of the world will receive the antichrist and his false oneness plan. You can mark your bets. But it won’t lead to world peace.
Along these lines, there is an interesting video up over on Lighthouse Trails Research Project that is related to all of this. It’s under today’s date in the blog section under the warning about reiki article, at the bottom is a video that has stuff that is connected to this. It’s almost 40 minutes, but he explains the oneness thing there too and how it’s all converging into that. More is involved than one area, he talks about another area but the big picture is there.
Blessings.
Lydia Church says
Every other religion is false, and they are for the most part leading their followers down this ‘oneness’ path leading to a false utopia. islam is another story, but they have their part to play.
Trick_or_Treat says
Compromising, and willingly cohorting with that which cannot, and will not, walk hand in hand, nor can ever be in agreement with.
It seems that the ‘Great Falling Away’ and Apostasy that the Gospels have warned us to be watchful for has now been under way for some time now, and, so (although the Lord said, Nobody, not the angels in heaven, nor anybody person here on earth – even the Son – knows the precise day or hour, but God alone), nevertheless therefore, we who have not been left in darkness, KNOW (according to our Lord’s ‘parable of the fig tree’) that the coming ‘rapture of the church’ (…and all the rest that is prophesied to follow) is now very imminent, and that our salvation is now so much closer than it was even yesterday.
“The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damacus is taken away, and it shall be a ruinous heap” – Isaiah 17:1….
When you see this, you know what is coming next (and very swiftly) – if you don’t, then start reading your Bible.
Isaiah 17; Ezekiel 38; Daniel 9: 24-27.
CRUSADER says
Know the signs….
Have you checked out Amir Tsarfati on Ezekiel 38 ?
CRUSADER says
Excellent, as usual, Lydia Church.
don vito says
Dialogue is a trap, only the uninformed kufrs fall for it. Pity, that.
CRUSADER says
Ephesians 6:
…Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power.
11
Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes.
12
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
13
Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.
14
Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place,
15
and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace.
16
In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.
17
Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
18
And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints.
……………
Steven Dawson says
The Strongest Muslims Are Terrorist Muslims ! ! NEED I SAY MORE ? ?
Trick_or_Treat says
‘Strong’ only in the sense that they are ‘actually strong’ to the very letter of what this satanic doctrine, the qur’an, says, commands, and incites one to do (albeit for the short time that they have left to indulge themselves). Having the hide and audacity to post on my facebook page that, ironically, the ONLY muslims who are literally living out the dictates of the qur’an to the letter, are the ones relentlessly pursuing the killing, maiming and persecution of all of us so-called ‘infidel unbelievers’, only gets me an immediate page suspension from Comrade Zuckerburg and his Central Committee, on the grounds of me having used “Hate Speech”, when in fact I’m only stating quite verifiable fact.
CRUSADER says
“Rigorous Muslims” —- as I’ve read Spencer has used as an apt phrase.
BegrensEuropa! says
The main meaning of islam is submission of all and everybody, everywhere and and as soon as possible. This submission encompasses rationality, morality, aesthetics, politics and all other religions, beliefs or worldviews. It means no honest, rational discussion is possible with moslims. Both moslims and non-moslims agree on this, although moslims will not admit it. It makes it impossible to live together, whether it is in one community, society, nation or world. All accommodation of any sort will be of no avail. This includes pope francis’ efforts. It is all pure, undiluted deception of the 9/11 “Stay quiet and you’ll be OK” variety. Each tree is recognized by its own fruit (Luke 6:44).
AntiIslamicman says
Islam is born from lies and deception. Muhammad a war monger killer and pedophile. Muslims cannot be trusted as they are allowed to lie to further their wicked cause. Islam wants to take over the world with their madness. You can’t talk with these people as all they do is tell lies like their Koran, that book is a lairs confession.
Goofy says
The pope is preoccupied with politics which he apparently enjoy much more than his stewardship over the gospel and the faithful. The Roman Catholic church under his “leadership” is moving further away from the true gospel. The pope apparently has no clue that “Nobody comes to the Father except through Christ”. John 14:6. It is a Christian virtue to live in peace with others if possible, but truth takes priority over peace. Matthew 10:34 “Do not assume that I have come to bring peace to the earth …”. Pope Francis has no grasp of the Christian faith.
dfhdnjdn says
You are right to quote – “Leave them; they are blind guides. And if a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit.” (Matthew 15:14).
Because, of course, Roman Catholicism and Islam are both false religions.
Roman Catholicism is counterfeit Christianity ruled by Jesuits who, like Islam, will say and anything to reach their own ends of world dominance and power.
Thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ His Son, neither will succeed because the kingdoms of the earth belong to Christ.
will rodgers says
Well said
Giacomo Latta says
A couple of days ago, one Hassan Guillet, a part-time imam who had preached for restraint by muslims after the Quebec City massacre, was, amazingly enough, rejected by Canada’s Liberal Party after having won the right to represent a certain riding. The problem ? B’nai Brith had revealed a long history of anti-semitic comments. If you have an extra computer with Google on it please send it to the Liberal Party. I guess the assumption was: cute little hat, cute little guy. Even if he isn’t, Canadians will buy whatever the Liberal party has to sell.
janwog says
The Abrahamic Fallacy according to Vatican II: https://www.newenglishreview.org/Mark_Durie/The_Abrahamic_Fallacy/
Shirley Ann says
Regardless of Francis, who usurped the Papacy from Pope Benedict, The Pope of Rome is Pope Benedict. Until the Liberal College of Cardinals allows us to know of the Death of Pope Benedict, He is God’s Vicar on Earth. Even a Marxist/Communist from South America, must know that he is NOT the Legitimate Heir to the Throne of God on Earth, no matter how many Pedophiles, Homosexuals, MUSLIMS & LIBERALS SUPPORT HIM!
Islam_Is Islam says
YES, Shirley Ann. Thank you for stating the obvious. Benedict is Pope and has never abdicated the Papal Office, the munus, since April 2005. Rather he resigned the ministerium. Bergoglio is an anti-pope with the agenda of establishing the anti-church which he called an adulteress on March 27, 2019 and again on August 4, 2019 (paragraph 8 of his letter to priests). The Bride of Christ will never be the Whore of Babylon; Bergoglio’s “church” on the other hand…..
Angemon says
What the High Sparrow lookalike fails to realize is that the Mouths of Sauron in Al-Azhar may be genuinely believers on achieving peace while having a very different definition of what “peace” means…
Elizabeth says
Not much we can expect, the Bible told us about this pale/green horse, when we have terrorists in Congress…what can we expect ? DARPA and Microsoft will continue to work to fraudulently elect whomever can help to bring the Nazi New World Order conceived by the globalists. Omar is asking the US to support a terrorist organization and is raising money for that…This is the end of Age where good will be called evil and evil good, just as Jesus has said
John McKenna says
I am a non denominational Christian. I was brought up in the Catholic Church and for the most part have no trouble with most of its teachings. One problem I do have is that the Catholic Church stubbornly accepts those baptised as infants as Catholic in adulthood. The vast majority in Europe do not follow the faith. A lot of those who do are often humanist in outlook. Those who are genuine Catholics indeed are few. I know this from my personal experience..I could show people the closed churches in my area. The churches that once had up to a thousand on a Sunday now reduced to below a hundred or so, most aged. In some parts if it wasn’t for the African people and East European, there would be few families. This in a working class part of Manchester that once once dominated by the Catholic Church. Ironically the Schools are popular as the standard of teaching is seen as better than the non Catholic equivalents. They themselves though are only Catholic with a small c and again very humanist in outlook. I labour my point. Which is simply that in Europe Christianity is dying. The Black Pentecostal churches buck the trend and Evangelical churches to a lesser extent. But overall the majority of those with a religious adherence could soon, as a majority, be those of the Islamic faith. There is always hope that the church both Catholic and State Church may return to teaching the Gospel. That they will stand up to the secular humanism that has given us abortion on an industrial scale, destroyed the family and gender roles etc. However there is little sign as it stands of that happening.
CRUSADER says
You speak of Chrislam ?
patriotliz says
“Talk about extreme, militant Islamists and the atrocities that they have perpetrated globally might undercut the positive achievements that we Catholics have attained in our inter-religious dialogue with devout Muslims.”
“Talk about the extreme, militant Nazis and the atrocities that they have perpetrated in Europe might undercut the positive achievements that we in the Free World have attained in our diplomatic dialogue with the devout Nazis.”
Catholic hierarchy….the present day Neville Chamberlain at their best.
CRUSADER says
—- The many voices of Islam —-
https://www.paulist.org/the-conversation/the-many-voices-of-islam/
What is happening between Sunni’s and Shia’s around the world is a catastrophe. What is happening in Syria is a catastrophe. One voice doesn’t mean a uniformity, but a diversity of respected voices.”
So spoke Tariq Ramadan, professor of contemporary Islamic Studies at Oxford University, at the Islamic Society of North America’s 50th Annual Convention that took place August 30-September 2 in Washington, D.C.
In 2010 Christians noted 100 years of work for unity among the followers of Jesus in what has come to be known as the ecumenical movement. And Muslims are now laying the foundational principles for a corollary movement within their own ranks.
In a session titled “Saved Sect? Theology and Ethics of Pluralism.” Mr. Ramadan and Yasir Qadhi addressed the situation among Muslims where, as in Christianity, there are several branches – Sunni, Shia, Salafi, Sufi, just to name a few schools of thought within their community – with each school seeing itself as rightly guided and laying claim to being the “saved sect.”
As Christians did in the early part of the 20th century, Muslims are now asking themselves:
How do we navigate the choppy waters of intrafaith diversity? How do we remain faithful to our particularities while accepting differences? Toward this end, Mr. Ramadan and Mr. Qadhi examined the theology of inclusiveness and the ethics of disagreement in building the beloved community.
Agreement on Essentials, Pacifism, Inclusivism —-
Mr. Qadhi, an Islamic lecturer and author of several books about Islam, emphasized agreement on the essentials of that faith, granting that “large segments of the umma (Muslim community) don’t care about these schisms, sects and marginal issues. The average Muslim doesn’t need to specialize in these questions. As long as he believes in the six pillars of Islam, prays five times a day, and accepts the Qur’an, it will be enough.”
Mr. Qadhi noted that no matter what theological position one holds, the Prophet Mohammad never sanctioned physical violence against someone who holds another position.
“If I am a Sunni, I cannot allow anyone to blow up a Shi’a shrine,” he said. “Argue what you want to argue, but allow others the freedom to believe what they want to believe. Scholars of all stripes need to understand that there is a time and a place and a methodology for talking about the divisive issues.”
“I might disagree with certain things in others’ interpretation of scripture,” Mr. Qadhi continued, “but it’s not my right to force my theology on other people. These schisms/sects will remain. Let Allah be the judge. We shouldn’t be threatening or harming one another. We should not be guilty of the sin of arrogance. I might believe that my theology is right, but that doesn’t mean I am a better person than the other. If we both believe we’re onto the truth, then we should follow the Qur’anic principle that truth should lead to humility. We should treat others as we ourselves wish to be treated,” said Mr. Qadhi.
Three Conditions —-
Mr. Ramadan picked up on the understanding of truth. “There is one humanity,” he said, “but Allah also wanted diversity within humanity. Diversity is both a challenge and a necessity. The only truth is with Allah.”
Mr. Ramadan cited three conditions required for all Muslims to live together peacefully:
“One, we need to respect the sincerity of the other, to grant the good intention of the other. We must always start with this.
“Two, competence. Talk at the level of your knowledge. If you don’t know, refrain from judging. And if you do know, then exercise your competence with respect.
“Three, be careful. Respect the boundaries.” His reference here was to the Ahmadiyyas. a reform movement that grew out of Sunni Islam. It was founded in 1889 in India by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, who claimed to be the metaphorical second coming of Jesus and the divine guide whose appearance was foretold by the Prophet Mohammad. Most Ahmadis believe he was the long-awaited mahdi or messiah.
But since in Islam the notion is that the Prophet Mohammad is the last of the prophets, the question then becomes in the eyes of many other Muslims: Are these people really Muslims or not?
Mr. Ramadan’s response. “In the case of the Ahmadiyyas who believe there is another prophet after Mohammad, it’s no longer an intrafaith dialogue, but an interfaith dialogue.”
The overall discussion was one that strikes familiar chords for Christians, who have had and continue to have their own struggles around scriptural interpretation, doctrinal distinctions between essentials and non-essentials, and questions around whether certain reform movements (like the Mormons) are to be recognized as Christians or not.
In the end, any gains made relative to unity among Christians and unity among Muslims will have positive and far-reaching repercussions within the unity of the human family at large. We will do well to empathically support each other’s efforts and celebrate each other’s progress. In the big picture, there is just one human family, and everyone in it is a child of God.
— Father Thomas Ryan, CSP
(Father Thomas Ryan, CSP, directs the Paulist North American Office for
Ecumenical and Interfaith Relations in Washington, D.C.)
Goofy says
When something sounds too good to be true it normally is. The Prophet Muhammad himself had a man murdered because he had built up an image of himself as a too devout too righteous Muslim, causing jealousy in Mohammed!
When it comes to peaceful coexistence with Christians and Jews please inform me how that is to happen as the Koran has a clear message that they must be brought under submission, they must be financially exploited for a while before they are given the choice of conversion into Islam or pay with their lives. This is a reality which is played out every single day!
Goofy says
Please tell me what the Roman Catholic church has in common with Islam. Islam’s claim that it is an Abrabamic religion rests entirely on the claim of Prophet Muhammad that he is a descendant of Ismael. There is absolutely no proof of that.
Apart from that Islam is characterized by its blasphemic claims concerning Jesus Christ. It is crucial for Islam to maintain that Christ is not God/son of God, that there is no Adam’s sin. in man, and that Christ did not die a death of substitution to pay for our sins. Consequently according to Islam Christ did not rise from the dead either.
Therefore, according to Islam Jesus is an entirely ordinary man who happened to be born by a virgin (that is important to them) he was taken back alive by God to heaven from where he shall return to earth to kill the misguided Christians and live an ordinary family life before he shall be buried next to his boss Prophet Muhammad, who never prophesied anything and who was never in direct contact with his god Allah! His contact with the heavenly was through the angel Gabriel who the Prophet Muhammad was not sure of as he had the suspicion that he had contact with the demonic!
Is it possible to insult the Triune God more than this? I doubt it although the Roman Catholic church does its best during Mass to perpetuate Christ’s once for all sacrifice on the cross by perpetuating that sacrifice and making the Mass redeem the believers rather than the cross. It has been like that since the infallible Council of Trent!
Is the Roman Catholic church in fact closer to Islam (and more distant to Bible based Christianity) than we normally dare to believe?
Any views on this?
Keys says
Yes.
“…making the Mass redeem the believers rather than the cross….”
The Catholic mass is not the redeemer, nor is the cross. Catholics believe that Jesus is the Redeemer (not the mass or the cross), and the only way to the Father.
You are not accurately stating what Catholics believe about the mass and redemption, but this is not the forum to “dialogue” on that exhaustive topic.
If you truly want to accurately post what Catholics believe about the mass, and then criticize it, you must first get what they believe stated correctly. For info on the true Catholic view try:
https://www.catholic.com/search?q=Mass%20as%20sacrifice
There is more on your post, but this is not the forum, and I can not sit down and have a beer with you, or I would, but it’s crazy to type it all down when you can find it on-line on reliable Catholic sources.
Carolyne says
There they go again. Get a room, guys.
somehistory says
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/pope-on-critics-its-an-honor-if-the-americans-attack-me
some guy named Seneze wrote a book about the pope and gave him a copy, to which he said he was ‘honored’ that Americans attack him….and uses “spiritual weapons” to respond.