As is always the case with exhortations such as this one, note how one-sided it is. Robert George tells Christians not to hate Muslims, which is a very good thing for him to tell them, but he never says a word about trying to get Muslims not to hate Christians. As far as this article is concerned, the onus is entirely on the Christian side to build bridges and make peace. One may argue that George is a Christian, and so he doesn’t presume to preach to Muslims, and that’s all very well, but where are his “dialogue” partners issuing similar exhortations to Muslims to regard Christians as friends and allies, and to lay aside direct and explicit Qur’anic commands not do so?
Here is that command: “O you who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you – then indeed, he is of them. Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people. (Qur’an 5:51) Does Robert George even know that this verse exists? Does he think there are no Muslims who take it seriously? The renowned and eminently mainstream Qur’an commentator Ibn Kathir explains it this way: “Allah forbids His believing servants from having Jews and Christians as friends, because they are the enemies of Islam and its people, may Allah curse them.”
Will Robert George’s dialogue partners tell him what they’re doing to mitigate the force of this passage and other anti-Christian material in the Qur’an and Hadith? Here is some information on Hamza Yusuf from Discover the Networks:
…In 1995, Yusuf described Judaism as “a most racist religion.” In 1996 he expressed his contempt for the United States:
“[America] a country that has little to be proud of in its past and less to be proud of in the present. I am a citizen of this country not by choice but by birth. I reside in this country not by choice but by conviction in attempting to spread the message of Islam in this country. I became Muslim in part because I did not believe in the false gods of this society whether we call them Jesus or democracy or the Bill of Rights.”
On September 9, 2001 – just two days before the al Qaeda attacks against America – UCLA’s Al-Talib magazine co-sponsored a benefit dinner titled “Justice for Imam Jamil Al-Amin” (a convicted cop-killer formerly known as H. Rap Brown) at UC Irvine. Among the speakers at this benefit was Sheikh Hamza Yusuf, who spoke about the fate he foresaw for America:
“They [Americans] were ungrateful for the bounties of Allah, and so Allah caused them to taste fear and hunger. That is one reason and, I would say, that this country is facing a very terrible fate. The reason for that is that this country stands condemned. It stands condemned like Europe stood condemned for what it did…. This country [America] unfortunately has a great, a great tribulation coming to it. And much of it is already here, yet people are too to illiterate to read the writing on the wall.”
At this same rally, Yusuf lamented that Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman, the blind Egyptian cleric convicted of masterminding the 1993 World Trade Center bombing as well as unfulfilled plans to destroy various Manhattan bridges and tunnels, had been “unjustly tried” and “condemned against any standards of justice in any legal system.”…
Yusuf also…lamented “what happened in the 19th century with the abdication of Islamic Law and the usurpation of it … by western legal systems.”…
And here is some information on Ismail Royer from the Investigative Project on Terrorism:
According to a biography posted on IslamOnline.net, Royer began working as a CAIR communication specialist in 1997. According to media reports, he continued to work for CAIR at least through the beginning of October 2001.
When police stopped Royer for a traffic violation in September 2001, they found in his automobile an AK-47-style rifle and 219 rounds of ammunition. He was indicted in June 2003, with 10 others, on a variety of charges stemming from participation in the ongoing jihad in Kashmir. Specifically, the indictment charged that Royer engaged in propaganda work for Lashkar-e-Taiba and “fired at Indian positions in Kashmir.”
Lashkar-e-Taiba was designated a Foreign Terrorist Organization on December 26, 2001. Thus, while news reports indicated he still worked for CAIR, according to a federal indictment, Royer purchased an AK-47 assault rifle and 219 rounds of ammunition, distributed newsletters for a group later designated as a foreign terrorist organization, and fired at Indian targets in Kashmir.
Again, Awad has minimized CAIR’s ties to Royer, noting Royer was also “a former employee of Starbucks Coffee.”
In January 2007, in response to Senator Boxer’s withdrawal of the award to Elkarra, Awad claimed that “CAIR had no knowledge of Royer’s travels and activities before he joined CAIR.”
Additional charges listed in a superseding indictment against Royer and his 10 co-conspirators included conspiracy to levy war against the United States and conspiracy to provide material support to Al Qaeda.
On January 16, 2004, Royer pleaded guilty to weapons and explosives charges and agreed to cooperate fully with the government.
He was sentenced to 20 years in prison.
Royer got out early, of course, and now proclaims that he has rejected his previous “extremism.” All right. Will he start telling Muslims to reject Qur’an 5:51 and take Christians (and Jews) as friends?
“Muslims and Christians must unite against hate,” by Robert George, America, October 4, 2019:
…First, Muslims worship God. Often, this is doubted or denied by Christians—even some Catholics. But the church herself unambiguously affirms it. Of course, as “Nostra Aetate” notes, Islam and Christianity differ in important ways in how they understand God. Christians believe God is a Trinity of persons. Muslims do not. Christians believe Jesus is God—the second person of the Blessed Trinity. Muslims do not. Still, the God whom Muslims (and Jews) worship is the true God.Second, the church has esteem for Muslims. One cannot hold in contempt those for whom one has esteem. Catholics are enjoined to eschew hatred for Muslims and oppose discrimination against them. We must recognize that most Muslims are decent, honorable people. Yes, there are evildoers who claim to act in the name of Islam while committing atrocities—and they must be resolutely opposed by all legitimate means, including the use of force. But we must not tar innocent Muslims with responsibility for their crimes.
Catholics are enjoined to eschew hatred for Muslims and oppose discrimination against them….
It has been my privilege and joy to work with Muslims like the Islamic scholar Hamza Yusuf, the author Suzy Ismail and Ismail Royer, the director of the Islam and Religious Freedom Action Team for the Religious Freedom Institute, in defending human life in all stages and conditions, beginning with child in the womb; in securing religious freedom for people of all faiths; in protecting refugees from persecution and terror; in opposing pornography and human trafficking; and in upholding marriage as the union of husband and wife.
I urge my fellow Christians of all traditions to remember how much we share with faithful Muslims—the vast majority of whom want for themselves and their children what we want for ourselves and our children: a peaceful society, a decent culture, a fair and flourishing economy, an excellent system of education and the freedom to worship and to bring our religiously inspired convictions concerning justice and the common good into the public square and to make our case, in freedom and peace, to our fellow citizens.
Christians and Muslims must, as never before, join hands to bear witness to God’s sovereignty, to God’s love for each and every member of the human family, to God’s desire that we lead upright lives.
Let Christians and Muslims never again regard each other as enemies. Let us rather recognize each other as brothers and sisters under the fatherhood of “the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all-powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth.”
sharonline says
You can’t walk with God and hold hands with the devil.
somehistory says
+100
GreekEmpress says
+1000!
mortimer says
These sort of simplistic remarks do not help. 60% of the Koran is a rant of hatred directed against Jews and Christians. Robert George is not well-informed about the Koran, but preposterously presents himself as an expert. Muslims are completely unable to take his advice.
Muslims can only be true friends with Jews and Christians if the Muslim actually leaves Islam.
The Koran actually forbids Muslims from forming friendship bonds with Christians.
Muslims are humans who have wrong information about religion. Islam is a mother lode of errors, contradictions and illogic. Anyone who sees that cannot be a Muslim.
somehistory says
mortimer,
Just who put you in charge of deciding what a person should say in a comment and what should not be said? Who made you the decider of what “helps” and what doesn’t?
Perhaps what you refer to as ” simplistic remarks “…which in this case is all too True…helps the person who wrote it and perhaps it helps some of the rest who read it.
Helping moslims feel better about themselves is not the job of anyone who wishes to comment. You can do it if you so desire, but don’t expect everyone else to do so.
gravenimage says
Somehistory, I think Mortimer was talking about Robert George’s ridiculous comments in the story above–he was not chiding a poster.
But I had wondered if he was myself before reading his entire post.
somehistory says
g,
I ***read*** his ‘entire post” before I wrote my comment in reply to what he wrote. I stand by what I wrote. If he had been just “talking about RG’s ridiculous comments,” he could have done so without “replying” to the comment above.
If he meant it as you suggest, he should have clarified, esp after i commented on what he wrote.
Lydia Church says
This is an addition to my lengthy comment from further below, but I thought of this one again after I left today so here it is….
“Who is the liar, if it is not the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father, but whoever confesses the Son has the Father also.”
1 John 2; 22-23
That clearly states several things. And we know several facts about islam and Christianity.
1. islam claims that Jesus is not the Son of God.
2. Christianity claims that Jesus IS the Son of God, which He is.
3. Christianity claims that Jesus is the Messiah, the Christ, the final messenger and the biggest messenger of God. (Mohammed was not God’s messenger at all.)
4. islam claims that Jesus was just ‘a prophet’ of God. They claim mohammed was the final one. Yet Jesus describes Himself as ‘the First and the Last’ in the book of Revelation.
5. This verse says that those who claim that Jesus is not God’s Son and the Messiah, are liars. By logical deduction, that makes islam a lie, and those who repeat its claims; liars.
6. Not only that they are liars, but they are antichrist. So that makes, by logical deduction once again, islam an antichrist religion.
7. Again, as it says, those who deny the Father AND the Son, are antichrist. Since islam denies that Jesus is God’s Son, islam is antichrist. With me so far? (Says volumes about the pope too, doesn’t it?)
8. It states that whoever denies the Son DOES NOT HAVE THE FATHER EITHER. So if they deny that Jesus is God’s Son, THEY DON’T HAVE GOD EITHER. Not that they just don’t have Him as Father, but as their God at all. You need the Son to have the Father. And yes, that goes for all other religions too. Those who confess the Son also have the Father, but those who do not… don’t.
9. Again, we see the exclusivity of Christianity, we see that it is NOT THE SAME GOD, and we see that there is enmity between those who hold to what the Bible says as Christians, and those who do not. So no, we can’t ‘hold hands all around the world and sing kumbaya’ with them, in a nutshell. They are definitely NOT our brethren!
So its not just a matter of subjective gray areas of belief in some vague, fuzzy, obfuscated sense of deity. The beliefs are well defined and made crystal clear, the lines are drawn, and one either falls within or outside of them!
This is even the case regarding Christianity and Judaism today, and I went into that before regarding true Judaism being fulfilled in Christ and Christianity, (hence no more temple, etc.) and today we see talmudic and rabbinical Judaism without temple sacrifices, etc. I won’t delve into all of that again here, but I do include these verses to shed light on that:
“Regarding the gospel, they are enemies on your account; but regarding election, they are loved on account of the patriarchs.” Romans 11; 28
A special note on the future fulfillment of the Day of Atonement, or Yom Kippur:
“I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not be conceited: A hardening in part has come to Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come from Zion; He will remove godlessness from Jacob. And this is My covenant with them when I take away their sins.”
Romans 11; 25-27
And more:
“Then I will pour out on the house of David and on the people of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and prayer, and they will look on Me, the One they have pierced. They will mourn for Him as one mourns an only child, and weep bitterly for Him as one grieves a firstborn son. ” Zechariah 12; 10
“Who has ascended to heaven and come down? Who has gathered the wind in His hands? Who has bound up the waters in His cloak? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His name, and what is the name of His Son—surely you know!” Proverbs 30; 4 (Hint: Jesus!)
“Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord, and against his anointed [the Messiah], saying,
Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure. Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel. Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.”
Psalm 2; 1-12
“Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest He be angry and you perish in your rebellion, when His wrath ignites in an instant. Blessed are all who take refuge in Him.” Psalm 2; 11-12
NOTE THAT THE LAST GROUP OF VERSES ARE FROM THE OLD TESTAMENT, TALKING ABOUT THE SON OF GOD!
Ezekiel 37 has the prophecy of Israel from the Holocaust until now and into the Kingdom age. Very moving to read!
Also, Jesus fulfilled the first 4 of the seven Biblical feasts on the day (crucifixion=passover, resurrection=first fruits, unleavened bread=holy week, Pentecost=Pentecost with Holy Spirit descending on the church). The last three are Fall feasts and will be fulfilled during the end times, after the summer harvest (church age, time of the Gentiles). Feast of Trumpets=judgments, Jericho was a mirror of this, we see it in Revelation also, Day of Atonement (Israel receives Jesus), and Feast of Tabernacles (fellowship with God, kingdom age). That one, by the way, starts really soon as they all come close together.
Once I get on a roll, boy I’ll tell ya, there’s no telling where it’s gonna stop!
: D
david007m says
you are the classic protestant. You say Jesus is lord and gods son(which Christianity has said from day one), and then out of the other side of your mouth denigrate the pope and the catholic church as antichrist. Its ridiculous. Im sure you have “facts” to back it up. But i implore you to learn the real history of the church. There was no apostasy and the gates of hell will never prevail of gods church, according to the risen lord.!
somehistory says
“Christians must this and Christians must that”…..Objection! Christians are only commanded to obey God and His Son, not go by what some idiot, and fabricator, says we “must” do.
moslims do not worship “the True God.” moslims worship satan the devil and if there ever was a mo ham ed who had devilish visitations in the desert, moslims also worship that filthy raper of children and mass murderer.
I will not, “must” not, hold hands with those who worship the arch enemy of my God and Father and His Son, Jesus Christ. Nor will I hold hands with those who worship a mass-murdering, raper of children, psychopathic liar.
mortimer says
Somehistory, Christians MUST love their enemies and MUST do good to those that hate them. It’s a divine commandment.
“But I tell you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who mistreat you and persecute you.” Matthew 5:44.
Lydia Church says
Some history is 100% right. Nothing to respond to there other than amen!
He is saying that muslims DO NOT worship the true God, but that Christians DO worship the one true God, and thus that it’s NOT the same God.
He is not saying anything about doing harm to ‘our enemies,’ he is saying that we are not to hold hands with them, and that is also what the Bible commands.
See 2 Corinthians 6; 14-17 for those instructions.
Thank you.
somehistory says
Lydia Church
thank you very much. You understand me exactly.
somehistory says
mortimer,
You cam think and do anything you wish, but You are not the person who decides for me what Jesus meant when He said, love your enemies and pray for those persecuting you.”
Jesus Christ “set the example” for Christians to follow. He spoke hard Truths to His enemies. He didn’t go about *holding their hands* and playing at being nice. He called them snakes and other things to show them…and others listening…just how evil His enemies were…and are still. He did not “respect” them and did not expect them to “respect” Him. He knew they hated Him and He told them so.
Jesus was sent to earth because God “loved the world” and doesn’t want any to die. But this God of mine, the Father of Jesus, will “bring to ruin those ruining the earth.” He will put to death all liars and those who are disgusting in their filth. Jesus said we are to “love” the way His Father in heaven, loves.
You hold the hands of moslims if you wish to. But “loving one’s enemies,” does not mean what you think it means.
You don’t tell me how to worship and I won’t tell you. But whether or not you tell me, I don’t listen to any human when it comes to Whom or how I worship or honor my Creator.
sharonline says
Very well said!!!
gravenimage says
Agreed, Somehistory.
Singleton Mosby says
All we need is for Muslims to commit mass-apostasy and ignore Surahs 98:6, 9:5, 9:29, 9:73, 9:111, 9:123 and a big portions of the Sunnah.
mortimer says
Agree with SM. Difficult, but simple … simply convince Muslims that there are serious errors in the Koran that preclude it from being the literal words of all-knowing Allah and they will drop Islam right away. That is happening every day as more and more Muslims are seeking to find answers using critical thought.
gravenimage says
I don’t think that Singleton Mosby was saying that this would be simple…
Beneath the Veil of Consciousness says
To put Singleton Mosby’s comment more succinctly, all muslims have to do is risk life and limb. The punishment for apostasy is death.
keya says
” a peaceful society, a decent culture,”. Yes a peaceful society where everybody is muslim or converted to Islam and a decent islamic culture. That is a Muslim’s dream.
gravenimage says
Spot on.
James says
Christians are the ones being exhorted to be tolerant, because everybody knows that Islam has no intention to be tolerant of Jews and Christians. So forget these Neville Chamberlains and their appeasement tactics.
Lydia Church says
Ugh, I can’t stomach this absurd poppy cock any more!
1. He needs to preach to the muslims to stop hating the Christians.
2. If he is a Christian, then he needs to preach to the muslims… the gospel… as the Lord commanded.
3. If muslims would stop massacring Christians, it might help curb some of that ‘animosity’ against them.
4. No, muslims do NOT worship God. Christians worship God. Period.
See refutations below:
“…First, Muslims worship God. [No, they do not.] Often, this is doubted or denied by Christians—even some Catholics. [The Christians are right.] But the church herself unambiguously affirms it. [Another reason why the church is wrong. Not ‘thee’ church, but you know what I mean.] Of course, as “Nostra Aetate” notes, Islam and Christianity differ in important ways in how they understand God. Christians believe God is a Trinity of persons. Muslims do not. Christians believe Jesus is God—the second person of the Blessed Trinity. Muslims do not. Still, the God whom Muslims (and Jews) worship is the true God.[No, muslims do NOT worship the true God. You can’t define God in your own image, create Him as you want Him to be, declare that idol to be the true God, and thus worship Him. God said we are NOT to worship Him as the heathen do!] Second, the church has esteem for Muslims. [A fault of their own.] One cannot hold in contempt those for whom one has esteem. Catholics are enjoined to eschew hatred for Muslims and oppose discrimination against them. We must recognize that most Muslims are decent, honorable people. [Resoundingly…. FALSE!] Yes, there are evildoers who claim to act in the name of Islam while committing atrocities—and they must be resolutely opposed by all legitimate means, including the use of force. [Hint: They ARE acting in the name of islam.] But we must not tar innocent Muslims with responsibility for their crimes.
…
Christians and Muslims must, as never before, join hands to bear witness to God’s sovereignty, to God’s love for each and every member of the human family, to God’s desire that we lead upright lives.
[No, we don’t join hands with infidels. We don’t share the same ‘God.’ muslims are part of God’s creation and are human beings, but not brothers.]
Let Christians and Muslims never again regard each other as enemies. Let us rather recognize each other as brothers and sisters under the fatherhood of “the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all-powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth.” [No, we are not ‘brothers and sisters’ as we are not all under the ‘one true God.’ Christians are under ‘the one true God,’ while muslims are NOT.]
He sounds like another rick warren shill leading the church to hell via ‘chrislam’!
Even worse, after that last part he sounds like a good shadow for the pope!
This is all part of the one world religion scheme!
One of the lies is to claim that because God made us, and we are all part of creation, we are all ‘brothers.’ Well we are not! We are ‘brothers’ in a fellow man way as part of creation in the sense that we are not to murder, steal, etc. towards one another. But we are not ‘brothers’ in a faith, salvation, and under God sort of way. Only Christians are truly brothers with each other, not with anyone else. There is no fellowship or brotherhood with those outside. It is exclusive. There are things we extend to one another as Christians that we do not to outsiders. This is nothing more than a ploy to get folks in the church to bite the bait and join hands in the one world religion. The devil twists the Bible for that purpose.
muslims are unbelievers. They do not worship the same God. You must worship God according to what He says in His Word, the Bible; which is the Christian faith. WE are His children, not all creation automatically just because He made them. You must be born again to become a child of God.
THIS IS WHAT THE LORD HAS TO SAY ABOUT THE MATTER:
“Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said:
“I will dwell in them
And walk among them.
I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.”
Therefore
“Come out from among them
And be separate, says the Lord.
Do not touch what is unclean,
And I will receive you.”
2 Corinthians 6; 14-17
AMEN!!!
Lydia Church says
To repeat again… NO, it is NOT the same God!
Thus we are NOT brothers and sisters, and not to join hands with them.
CogitoErgoSum says
Although they can be our brothers and sisters if they choose to be — through baptism.
Lydia Church says
That would make them Christians.
But not by baptism though, baptism is of no avail without coming to Christ of your own freewill.
Muslim2019 says
Lydia Church, hope this applies to your Jewish friends too LOL.
CogitoErgoSum says
Did you know that some of the first Christians believed a person had to become a Jew before becoming a Christian (until St. Peter decided to agree with St. Paul in not requiring it)?
CogitoErgoSum says
My point being that Jews and Christians worship the same God.
Lydia Church says
And that was a false belief. The New Testament makes that clear.
Not the same either. Sorry. See 1 John 2; 22-23.
somehistory says
CogitoErgoSum
Some things escape the notice of many. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, made promises to them, as well as to King David, that He would send someone to be King and Savior and this One would be through their “line,’ in the “tribe” of David, which was Judah.
He would be the “Lion of the tribe of Judah.” And this means that Jesus was a Jew in the line of the Kings of Israel.
When Jesus began His preaching, He did not say that God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, was not the God that He now preached. In fact, He made reference to this in His teaching about those men being “alive” to His Father.
Furthermore, when He had His first followers, from whom He chose His apostles, these were all Jews. These Jews became His disciples, not by starting to worship and serve a different God, but by following Jesus and not having to obey the Law…which only Jesus could do perfectly, everyone else fell short…about sacrifice, certain days, certain foods, etc.
Peter was shown in a spectacular way that he and the others were no longer under the Law and to accept non Jews as disciples when he saw a sheet with what he considered “disgusting things” and told to “eat.”
Jesus’ Father and God is the same as that of His mother, Mary and of the Jews that lived before, and of His disciples, of which His mother was one, afterward.
The God of the Jews and the God of the Christians is the same God. If one is not of these two groups, Jews or Christians, then they do not worship the God that Jesus “explained.”
gravenimage says
Note that “Muslim2019” has called for the destruction of Christianity and genocide of Jews and Christians many times here.
mortimer says
To Muslim2019, the Koran claims to be from Allah … however, the divinity of the Bible isn’t ‘Allah’, but Jehovah. Allah completely forgets that his ETERNAL NAME and TITLE are ‘Jehovah’ and the ‘God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob’. The Koran uses neither the eternal NAME nor the divine TITLE one single time.
If Allah doesn’t know the eternal NAME of Jehovah, he is a different god.
Exodus 3:15,16: And God said moreover unto Moses: ‘Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel: The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you; this is My name for ever, and this is My memorial unto all generations.
Lydia Church says
See latest comment above about 1 John 2; 22-23. I added that before reading your comment.
CogitoErgoSum says
Lydia, so which god do you believe was speaking to Moses and the rest of the prophets who lived before the birth of Jesus?. You will need to show me where the scriptures of the Jews deny that Jesus is the Messiah before I am convinced of your position. Yes, individual Jews deny the divinity of Christ, but do their scriptures? We Christians even take some of their scriptures to support Christ being the Messiah.
CogitoErgoSum says
By the way, Lydia, the Jews were God’s chosen people for carrying out His plan for the redemption of mankind. If you show me anything from the Jewish scriptures that directly denies that Jesus is the Messiah (as the Koran does) I will be very surprised indeed. The fact that some Jews do not accept Jesus as the Messiah does not mean they do not worship the true God. I’d say it means they just do not understand what they have been told by God concerning the Messiah … but it’s the same God we Christians worship although I’m not sure most Jews would agree with me on that.
jopa66 says
I personally know a Christian pastor who is a converted Muslim. He explained it to me like this. In the Arabic language, the word for God is Allah. Just like in French it is Dieu, Italian-Dio, Latin-Deus, German-Gott… etc. So therefore a Christian Arab worships Allah. A Moslem Arab worships Allah. As far as I know, the God referred to in any other language is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob – Jehovah God, the Creator God: the God of perfect Love and perfect Justice and perfect Truth. This is the God who entered His own creation in the form of one of His creatures and took upon Himself the penalty of death that we all deserve for transgressing His perfect Will. Thus perfect Devine Justice is fulfilled by perfect Divine Love for mankind. Son of man and Son of God in one being who told us that He is the only way to Life and to Truth. The Allah of Islam is NOT this God; he is the exact opposite of this God. And anyone who knows their bible knows that there is one evil one who desires above all else to worshipped as God. No. The Allah of Islam is a god of hate, a god of injustice and a god of deceit. He is not the way to Life, but to Death. Did Mohamed really meet with and talk to the angel Gabriel? An illiterate camel jockey with superior leadership ability was deceived by a divine creature of light who misrepresented himself as the angel Gabriel, the esteemed servant of Yahweh. Whoever this being was, he was sent by Allah to deliver a message that would birth the religion of Islam.
Should we extend Christian love and friendship towards Muslims? What would Jesus do? One thing He did was – die for them too! As well as Hindus, Buddhists and even atheists. What did He tell us to do? “Spread the gospel of Truth to all corners of the earth.” He probably even means the JW’s, Mormons and Catholics! Will everyone accept the Truth? They didn’t 2000 year ago and they won’t now. But some did and some will. This is Christ’s Church. Might you be persecuted? Blasphemed? Made fun of? Called a bigot or Islamophobe? Probably. So was He. Yeah, I know but… If Christ lives within you, He is the one called Islamophobe because you are just His vessel that He will use to get out His message of Love to His enemies. Christ does not change. God does not change. The message does not change and human nature does not change. Buddha is dead, Mohamed is dead. Jesus Christ is alive and well.
God, my God, our God is a God who keeps His promises. And Jesus has promised to return for His people, His Church – those of us who are born-again and believe He is Savior by way of His blood and death on the cross. This may happen sooner than you think. Are you ready? Will you stand for Him? “Ask and you shall receive.” Pray and ask for the strength, courage, stamina and the words to say so that the “gates of Hell will not prevail against you as part of His Church.” Read your Bible and pray that you will understand where this world is on the timeline.
sharonline says
A couple things in response. We are all the children of God, through faith in Christ Jesus. Galatians3:26; Christians pray to God in Jesus’ name; We are told not to love the wicked or unrighteous like Cain who slew his brother 1John3:12.
sharonline says
I also agree Jopa66 with this – Jesus spent 40days/nights in the desert. Satan appeared to him and promised him the world if Jesus would fall down and worship him. Jesus told Satan to ‘get thee hence!’ When Mohammed was in the desert Satan appeared to him as the angel Gabriel and offered him the same – the world if he fell down and worshiped him. Now the imams are telling us that Allah gave Mohammed the world and it’s theirs to reclaim.
John P says
1 John 3:11-12
11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother’s righteous.
KJV
– We are told not to be like them. And yes, “We are all children of God, through faith in Christ Jesus.” ie. Born again believers in Christ Jesus. We are to love others as fellow humans and share with them the gospel of salvation. It is their choice to accept and become a child of God or reject the free gift of eternal life through Christ.
mortimer says
Joppa66, all Christians around the world understand that the God of the Bible gave his ETERNAL NAME in Exodus 3:15,16. This eternal name (YHWH = the one who is) is not used a single time in the Koran, proving that the author of the Koran was a human hoaxer who had not read the Bible.
Jehovah appears in the Old Testament 6823 times, not once in the Koran. The two deities are different deities.
gravenimage says
Yes, Arabic-speaking Christians do use the word “Allah” for God.
This *does not* mean that the vicious “Allah” of the Qur’an is the same as the loving God of the Gospels.
jopa66 says
If you read my entire post you would see that this is exactly what I said. It is the Arab word for God is what confuses many people. I believe it is what inspires the “Pope” among many others to profess that we worship the same God. Just because Christians and Muslims are both Monotheists does not mean we worship the same God. The “Allah” of the Qur’an is most definitely a false god. I believe this to be the evil one spoken of in the Bible who aspires to be worshipped as God.
Wellington says
Guess a hell of a lot of Popes, the Crusaders, Ferdinand and Isabella, John Sobieski, John Quincy Adams, Arthur Schopenhauer, Ernest Renan, Winston Churchill, Bertrand Russell, Oriana Fallaci, et al. got it all wrong.
How wonderful it is to live in such an enlightened age as ours when Christians and Muslims (and let’s throw in, just for the hell of it, agnostics, atheists, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, etc.) can finally get along and esteem one another, mutual respect and all that. Ah, if only this simple misunderstanding could have been clarified from the seventh century onwards. Indeed, Christians should respect Muslims and Muslims should respect Christians.
How simple. How elegant. How peaceful. How noble.
How effing stupid.
mortimer says
Agree with Wellington, that tolerance is possible with mutual respect. However, Muslims are required NOT to give respect to the KAAFIR HARBI (the non-Muslims who resists Islam).
Robert George certainly looks WILLFULLY BLIND to the point of utter silliness.
Before telling Muslims to ‘love’ kafirs (something they are forbidden to do), George hasn’t bothered to learn about Islam’s authentic, ‘ESSENTIAL’ teaching of apartheid called ‘AL WALAA WAL BARAA’.
-Imam Abdul-Latif ibn Abdur-Rahman Rahimullah said, “It is not possible for someone to realize Tawheed (Islamic faith) and act upon it, and yet not be HOSTILE against the mushrikeen (i.e. wrong worshippers). So anyone who isn’t HOSTILE against the mushrikeen, then it cannot be said that he acts upon Tawheed nor that he realizes it.” [ad-Durar as-Saniyyah 8/167]
-“The doctrine of al Walaa wal Baraa is the REAL IMAGE for the actual practice of this faith.” – source “Al Walaa wal Baraa According to the Aqeedah of the Salaf”, by Sheikh Muhammad Saeed al Qatani, authoritative Saudi Sharia lawyer and imam at the Abu Bakr and Al Furqan Mosques in Mecca. – https://islamfuture.wordpress.com/2009/08/20/al-wala-wal-bara-according-to-the-aqeedah-of-the-salaf-parts-123/
-Shaykh Ahmad ibn ‘Atiq said:
“There isn’t in the Book of Allah the Exalted – after the issue concerning the obligation of tawheed and the forbiddance of its opposite (kufr=wrong belief)- any issue which has as so many proofs, nor so clearly explained, than the issue of al-walaa’ and al-baraa’.” (W-B is ‘Islamic apartheid’)
– Dr. Muhammad Saeed Al-Qahtaani said: “Thus, it is clear that Al-Wala’ Wal-Bara calls on Muslims to “love” their fellow Muslims and hate the non-Muslim (or Kafir).”
– from Sufi scholar Ahmad Sirhindi (1564-1624): “The honour of Islam lies in INSULTING kufr and kafirs. One who respects the kafirs dishonours the Muslims… The real purpose of levying jiziya on them is to HUMILIATE them to such an extent that they may not be able to dress well and to live in grandeur. They should constantly remain TERRIFIED and TREMBLING. It is intended to hold them under CONTEMPT and to uphold the honour and might of Islam.”
– from ibn Taymiyya, “Book of Emaan”: “… true believers show ANIMOSITY and HATRED towards disbelievers and NEVER support them.”
– K. 28:86 says: “Lend not thou support in any way to those who reject Allah’s Message.”
– from Umar Sulayman ‘Abd-Allaah al-Ashqar, “Belief in Allah”: “The Muslim should regard the Kuffaar as ENEMIES and HATE them because of their kufr (wrong belief), just as he hates their kufr (disbelief) itself.”
– from [Chap.iv] “The Islaamic Concept of al-Walaa’ wal-Baraa’” by Khalid El-Gharib: “… to SHOW ENMITY to those who show enmity to Allaah and His Messenger”.
(Note: Muslims are to visibly demonstrate their ENMITY or HATRED towards the kufaar)
– from a lecture given by Sheikh Abdullah al-Faisal (H.A.): “The implication of al-Baraa is that one HATES for the sake of Allah (SWT)…Al-Baraa means to recognize who your enemies are and to HATE them and EXTERMINATE them in their Endeavour to get rid of your Deen, al-Islam…Al-Baraa is to HATE the people who propagate Baatil (falsehood)—the Muslim should HATE them and (at least desire to) KILL them when the time comes.”
Mr. George, PLEASE learn something before you repeat that foolish nonsense.
Muslims DO NOT ‘love’ the kafir.
underbed cat says
Agree Wellington how Effing stupid…but the Countering Violent Extremism, CVE, is the recipe to allow it to spread into the hearts of United States, Europe,Sweden, Norway, Belgium and around the world wearing a mask as a religion, instead of a political movement of war, without explaining where the source of of “jihad terror denied” comes from as a politically correct deception that does not work in stemming the flow or stopping wars. That Islamic Turkey kills Islamic Kurds, a smaller group is tragic, but is that really Trumps fault should we have allies from any Islamic country because they do have endless wars are the Russians killing the Islamic Kurds? Do Americans understand the danger of the migration within the borders of the United States…..as kind diversity not understanding what the baggage is for our future where we end up conquered by the sudden Sword as the group grows, we didn’t think existed because they were victims ??? I don’t want to see this violence here or there, it was the previous moderate Islamic Turkey who decided to go raise the Sword of bloodshed…..to continue endless wars. Muslims killing muslims to head a muslim world?
tgusa says
George is a Catholic who is considered a leading conservative intellectual and that right there tells you all you need to know regarding the level of intellect that is out there today. The Mr. Rogers approach to this century’s old Christian/muslim conflict is not going to work. They will never be our neighbors.
Christian children are being kidnapped and subjected to horrific treatment by muslims all over the world but George says, hey, lets pal around old buddy! I am so sick of this crap. Catholics should rise up and excommunicate their obviously insane leadership before Catholics are subjected to excommunication from the civilized world by non Catholics and the non religious. Catholics cannot allow their intellectually stunted leadership to put every non Catholic/non muslim in grave danger without consequences. Please, Catholics, I beg you to stand up and get these nuts under control before it is too late.
mortimer says
Response to tgusa: Muslims are NOT PERMITTED to ‘respect’ a kafir.
Sahih Bukhari records that Abu ad-Darda (a companion of Mohammed) said,
“We smile in the face of some people although our hearts CURSE them.”
Ibn Kathir and his commentary on chapter 3 verse 28 of the Quran:
“BELIEVERS ARE ALLOWED TO SHOW FRIENDSHIP TO THE DISBELIEVERS OUTWARDLY, BUT NEVER INWARDLY. For instance, Al-Bukhari recorded that Abu Ad-Darda’ said, “We smile in the face of some people ALTHOUGH OUR HEARTS CURSE THEM.””
(MR. GEORGE … I am writing this for you to learn something.)
tgusa says
Right. Fortunately for us they hate each other as much or more than they hate the rest of us.
CogitoErgoSum says
I cannot believe that the triune God of the Bible is the same as Allah of the Koran. As I’ve said before, my God is a God of Truth and never lies. How can Jesus be the Son of God as the Bible says and also NOT be the Son of God as the Koran says? It’s not possible for both to be true. I choose to accept the Bible as true and the Koran as false and, therefore, my only conclusion has to be that Allah is not the true God and the Koran contains lies. Allah is a false god and if any spirit did deliver the Koran to Muhammad, it was a very evil one indeed.
FireFox says
Allah is the name of Mohammad’s “god”, Allah doesn’t translate to “god”.
And the Quran (Allah’s direct word) and the Bible do not share the same “God”.
Watch this excellent video by David Wood of Acts17Apologetics:
The Quran, the Bible, and the Islamic Dilemma
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNAS0aaViM4
ALLAHU AKBAR! MUHAMMAD’S WAR CRY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhdNG4tjOUs
Aussie Infidel says
I have no religious beliefs, and regard any argument about the merits or otherwise of gods, as an exercise in futility. Belief in a god or gods, is purely a product of the human imagination. But if people want to believe in some such supernatural being, that’s their right, provided their beliefs do no harm other people; and they do not force those beliefs on to others. It’s not the fictional gods we should be concerned about, but the tenets of a religion contained in its holy scriptures.
The issue between Christianity and Islam is simply that Christianity does not command its followers to “kill unbelievers”, but Islam does (Quran 2:191, 4:89, 9:5). And furthermore in the Sharia, Islam prescribes the death penalty for apostasy (Reliance of the Traveller, 08.1-4). No other religion but Islam commands its followers to kill those who not follow its teachings, or those who leave the faith.
Anyone who believes that they will be able to ‘build bridges’ between the faiths, does not understand Islam. Islam is a totalitarian, supremacist creed which regards Muslims above all others (Quran 3:28, 3:110, 5:51, 5:56, 9:33, 98:7). Islam is also the enemy of all freedom loving people and will not tolerate any opposition, (Quran 2:257, 3:19, 3:85, 33:36, 98:5; The History of Al-Tabari 9, p69).
And anyone who believes that Muslims should be accorded the same constitutional protection as Christians or Jews is naive, and unconsciously committing religious and cultural suicide. There is no way that Islam can be reformed, or accommodate other beliefs; or that Muslim immigrants will abandon their faith before they overwhelm Western countries demographically. After debating this issue for over 50 years, I can only conclude that Muslim immigration to the West has to be stopped immediately, and Islam must be banned – not because of its religious tenets – but because its political stance is a threat to the national security of all civilized countries.
Wellington says
As a fellow invincibly ignorant non-believer, I am in accord with you, Aussie Infidel.
The way I have put things here many times at JW, and as I am about to do so again, is that virtually every religion issues two threats—1) you will suffer in the next world if you don’t believe or do this, that or the other thing; and 2) the deity or deities of a religion may punish you in this world. Here, Islam is no different from other religions.
But Islam has that damn and unique “third threat,” i.e., its followers may use force in this world to harm you, rape you, kill you, etc. No other major faith has this “third threat” in its theological blueprint. Only Islam does, and herein lies the reason why Islam is a menace to mankind as no other major religion comes even close to being.
It all comes down to the “third threat” which Islam alone is guilty of. Profoundly so. Annoyingly so. Sickeningly so. Repulsively so. Deadly so.
And so to Hell with Islam. Completely so.
jopa66 says
You are both right – and you are both wrong. Religion, any religion by definition is a set of rules and regulations supposedly backed up by scripture that dictate the tenets of what people should believe and/or do. Christianity is NOT a religion! What it is supposed to be is a relationship between each of us and Jesus Christ. You both seem knowledgeable. If you do any serious study, you cannot deny that Jesus existed 2000 or so years ago. And well over 500 eye witnesses attested to His resurrection from the dead which proves life beyond the grave. This new life is FREE for anyone who wants it. You need simply believe in the One who gives life. Believe and live! No rules and regulations. No religion. Jesus has only two commands, “Love the Lord your God and love your neighbor as yourself.” The entire Law of God is contained within those two statements.
Aussie Infidel says
Jopa66, I don’t know what the situation is in the US regarding the legal definition of religion. But here in Australia, there was no legal definition until the High Court intervened in the Scientology case back in 1983. The court ruled that a religion was, “A belief in a supernatural being, thing or principle, together with canons of conduct to give effect to that belief” (and that Scientology was a religion, and could claim tax exemption). However, the justices did not specify what conduct was acceptable – which was a major flaw in their definition, and it has allowed religions like Islam to escape scrutiny and condemnation. Individuals who infringe our ordinary laws are still culpable, but most often the authorities do not see their behavior to be related to their religion – although this is now changing because the evidence is so overwhelming. But in my humble opinion, one of the most urgent matters which needs to be addressed in all Western countries, is to include in the definition of religion, a clause stating that the tenets of the faith must conform to the principles in our Constitutions and the laws of our countries. That would virtually condemn Islam without even having to mention it in the legislation.
In Biblical times, the religiosity of people in the Middle East bordered on the fanatical, and for many people it still does today; and that’s because religions are essentially based on suppositions and emotions. And virtually all religious people treat their faith as reality, even though there is no proof of the existence of a god, or other supernatural beings or entities, or what they claim transpired. You say that “well over 500 eye witnesses attested to Jesus’s resurrection from the dead which proves life beyond the grave”. It does no such thing! I couldn’t care whether there were five hundred or five million people who saw Jesus ‘come back to life’. I still wouldn’t believe it, simply because that claim is against all scientific understanding and experience of life.
You also claim that all we need to do is “believe and live” – which is the typical belief Christians have always promoted in their proselytism. All religions are syncretic – ie they have borrowed some of their concepts from earlier religions. And the concept of life after death in some glorious Heaven – or eternal punishment in Hell for our sins – was borrowed from the Ancient Egyptians. But this fanciful idea has no more validity now than it did back then.
Furthermore, as the philosopher of science Karl Popper pointed out, in science, theories must be ‘falsifiable’. Any hypothesis which is not able to be refuted, is not scientific, but religious – ie a belief without proof taken purely on faith. And while that might not bother people who have no understanding of science, it is an impossible hurdle for those who do understand. And that explains why most scientists are atheists – even if they don’t – or won’t – consciously admit it.
People who lived at the time of Jesus had very little knowledge of science. They knew virtually nothing about physics, or chemistry, or biology, or geology, or astronomy, but were deeply indoctrinated in the religions of their families and ethnic groups. The Jews believed in the tenets of Judaism, and the Christians believed in the New Testament – and each with great fervor. But they couldn’t both be right, and in my book they are both wrong. That’s not to say that people shouldn’t be allowed to practise their respective religions, which apart from supernatural beliefs, contain tenets like the ten commandments which became the foundation stones of Western civilization. But at least people should recognize that their beliefs are merely faiths – ie essentially beliefs without proof, which are contrary to all scientific evidence.
Wellington says
With respect, jopa66. some 500 witnesses who saw what? In antiquity dreams were considered as real as waking life or even more so. Thus, many may have dreamed about Jesus after his death and this was interpreted as Jesus rising from the dead. There were also many early Christians, later suppressed by the literalists after Constantine became the first Roman Emperor to embrace Christianity and officially went with the literalists at the Council of Nicea (325 A.D.), who thought of Jesus’ resurrection as a spiritual phenomenon, not a physical one. The two disciples from Emmaus narration in Luke, Chapter 24, who did not recognize Jesus until they sat down with him to eat arguably unwittingly gives credence to the “spiritual interpretation” of Jesus’ resurrection. Furthermore, it should be noted that only people who already believed in Jesus as the Messiah or some such thing “saw” him after his death. Hmmm. Why didn’t Jesus appear as well to, say, Pilate, or Caiaphas, or the Sanhedrin as a whole, or the Roman soldiers who crucified him, etc.? How about the Emperor Tiberius himself? And so on.
You see, there is always an alternative, rational explanation for any miracle narrated in the Bible. No exceptions. And, as David Hume pointed out some 250 years ago, no miracle can be accepted UNLESS the non-miraculous explanation for the event in question would be even more astounding than the miraculous one. I concur with this esteemed 18th-century Scottish philosopher (a damn good historian too).
Please be advised that I don’t mean to pick a fight with Christians, whose ethic they adhere to is infinitely superior to the Islamic ethic and why I wish every Muslim would wake up tomorrow a devout Christian. But, being the skeptic that I am, I can embrace the Judeo-Christian ethic without embracing its theology—as here.
P.S. For the record, I don’t deny Jesus was an historical figure. Denying that he was has been repudiated for many years now by scholars (e.g., Michael Grant who wrote “Jesus: An Historian’s Review of the Gospels”—a tome I highly recommend you take a look at). Best to you and yours.
jopa66 says
Nothing wrong with healthy skepticism, was there myself a few years ago. Thank you for the Michael Grant info. Will check that out. Here is something you may wish to see as well. “The Case for Christ (2017)”. I must say however, that If I and other Christians are wrong, then it really doesn’t matter much after we die. OTOH if we are correct, there will be a great multitude of sorry souls in the afterlife. It just makes sense to be absolutely sure in one’s beliefs. Any shred of doubt should cause one to investigate deeper – keeping an open-mind that remains cognizant of just who or what has formed your current opinion.
Wellington says
jopa66: Thanks for the cordial back and forth. I did read the book, “The Case for Christ” which I believe was published about twenty years ago but I did not see the film. Frankly, I did not find the book very convincing. Michael Grant is mentioned once in the book I believe but in such a minor way that it amounted to nothing.
I do think the Danish philosopher, Soren Kierkegaard was correct when he asserted that all the Christian really has is that “leap of faith.” Kierkegaard, himself a Christian, knew full well that Immanuel Kant, who died about a decade before Kierkegaard was born, demonstrated quite conclusively that all the intellectual arguments for the existence of God, however clever and well intentioned, ultimately fail because existence is not necessarily a category of an idea (btw, Kant was a Christian too and rather mortified that he came to the conclusion he did about intellectual arguments for God). Thus, all the Christian has in the final analysis is that “leap of faith.” But I don’t have any faith. None. I am not constituted that way. And I think that extraordinary claims must be accompanied by extraordinary evidence, which religion always fails to do. Hence the necessity of faith.
Respecting the specific matter of believing because what do you have to lose if you’re wrong, frankly I simply don’t “work” that way. Hedging bets on possible eternal life does not appeal to me. One has to add integrity to their convictions and take a stand. I already have. I see absolutely no evidence whatsoever for an afterlife. I mean, do you think that Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, all the Roman soldiers who manned Hadrian’s Wall in northern Britannia in the second, third and fourth centuries, all the hundreds of millions of Chinese who have lived and died through the centuries, George Washington, Karl Marx, Abraham Lincoln, Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Ronald Reagan, your great-great grandparents, my great-great grandparents, and on and on here, still exist in some way? If so, what is your evidence for this? I am inclined to think as Marlene Dietrich did when she said, “When you’re dead, you’re dead, that’s it.” Oh yeah, check out Grant’s book, published in 1977 I believe. He pulls no cheap shots and was a classical scholar who wrote a huge amount on antiquity and, while living, was the foremost expert in the world on Roman numismatics.
Again, thanks for the amiable exchanges. Take care.
jopa66 says
@ Wellington
Yes indeed Good exchange. I don’t profess to have a good scientific knowledge of physics, whether Newtonian and/or quantum mechanics, but a very wise sage is quoted as saying, “Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.” My own views probably go beyond the standard Christian beliefs that one encounters in most churches; at least most denominational ones. I attribute this in whole or in part to the many years I myself denied anything to do with the Bible, religion, God or anything supernatural. I abhor the word ‘religion’ as for me that just conjures up a bunch of man-made rules and regulations which supposedly have scriptural background or significance. True Christianity is quite simply a personal relationship with Jesus Christ but, I’m getting ahead of myself here.
As Einstein stated as above, nothing is as it seems. Time itself is not a constant but is influenced by acceleration and gravity. And this has been proven over and over again with extreme precision. Our world is not three dimensional – time itself being a fourth dimension. Einstein himself suspected there were even more and apparently today’s physicists have proven (or at least have evidence) that we exist in at least ten dimensions. So how can a being with only a three (four) dimensional perspective possibly have any cognizance of a realm of existence beyond his level of perception? Simple answer, “He can’t”. Neither can he explain ghosts, apparitions, precognition, telepathy or any other hocus-pocus parlour tricks. He can’t – unless he takes that “leap of faith”.
But you say you have no faith. And very possibly you do not. We are not born with it and it is not a natural human trait. The Bible says that faith itself is a gift from God so that no one can boast. See Ephesians 2:8,9 And Paul devotes an entire chapter to faith in Romans Ch.11. For me anyway, a diehard skeptic that said he was open-minded about ESP, extra-terrestrials and whatnot, I decided that if God was really REAL, and if He could actually read my thoughts and/or hear my words – then fine, I’ll try talking to Him. I do remember saying how skeptical I was and I really didn’t believe but was trying to stay open to the possibility and I asked Him to prove to me that He was real. And He did! How He did this for me would probably be different for anyone else.
Anyway you also make mention of the plethora of people in times past who have died. Again I point out that time is only relevant to our own existence in a limited 3 or 4 dimensional realm. The Bible speaks of ETERNITY. Time has no relevancy – the only moment is NOW. “In the beginning God Created the heavens and the earth.” Beginning of what? Beginning of TIME. Time itself had a beginning and time will have an end. It is difficult for us to fathom a reality that has no beginning or end. Everything we know has a timeline – we are born, we get old and we die. Same for automobiles. The Bible as you get to know it, is a history book – written in advance over a couple thousand years by over 40 different writers. Yet there is an unnatural consistency to the message it conveys which cannot be explained by human understanding. It’s as if some supernatural being who exists outside of the confines of time or space, who can somehow see the beginning to the end, somehow directed these writers to put on paper (papyrus), exactly what He wanted them to say at the moment they happened to exist on the timeline. It’s kinda like watching a parade. You are standing on the side of the road and you can see to your right what is coming, what is front of you and what has just passed by on your left. But you have a friend in a helicopter a few hundred feet up. He calls you on your cell phone and tells you what is coming that you cannot yet see. From his perspective, he can see the entire parade from beginning to the end. How can we have any cognizance of a realm of existence beyond our level of perception? We can’t – but they can! They can communicate with us. We have to learn to listen – and just take a baby step of faith. Take a chance and just ask for the smallest portion available. If you read the Bible with an open mind, it will start to make sense. It is God’s message to mankind from whatever dimension that He exists.
A question that I asked which you have not – “Why would He even bother, given all the evil and hostility that goes on?” “Why not just wipe us out and start over?” Well, that’s yet to come. That’s in the Book of Revelation. But I would point you now to Ephesians Ch. 2 v.1-7. Especially v7 Why does He bother? ” so that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.” You see, there will be a new earth and a new heaven which is devoid of any sickness, war, or any of the evils we see all around us. I want that. I want to be there when time resets and a new universe is born. And I know I’ll be there because God Himself bought and paid for my ticket when He took upon Himself the sins of the world in the person of Jesus Christ when He bled and died on that cross two thousand years ago. But again, that’s our timeline isn’t it? I have eternal life NOW because eternal is NOW and I believe in my savior now. Many references to this in the Bible when you read diligently. “Jesus said “Believe in me and you will live.” It doesn’t take a “leap of faith” (the leaps come later). Just enough to put a pinprick in the wall of doubt and unbelief. But you have to ask for it. He will answer. I know He will because He is my God.
CogitoErgoSum says
Interesting discussion going on here. Yes, what happens after we die has not been scientifically proven. It’s just a matter of belief. I choose to believe the words of Christ. Muslims choose to believe the words of Muhammad. Some people choose to believe in no gods at all. For you who do not believe in God, Christ tells that me that I should inform you of His words but you are free to accept them or reject them as you wish. Muhammad tells his followers that they must make you profess your belief in the god, Allah, or you should be killed if you refuse. You may mock or ridicule my religion as you want and I will let you go your way in peace. Do that to Islam and you place yourself in risk of death. Always keep that in mind.
mortimer says
Agree with much of what Wellington said about hell. Here following, a Muslim says that he abandoned Islam due the Islamic concept of hell.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/jul/26/religion.theeditorpressreview
“I asked myself who was worse: Allah or Hitler? … Since God cannot be worse than Hitler, I found myself ceasing to believe in hell. I cried. I immediately begged God for forgiveness. I felt Islam was perfect, but I wasn’t. That was the day I left Islam. By dropping one of the core pillars of faith, belief in hell, I was forced out of Islam by its own rules …”
Allah is thousands of times worse than Hitler.
Wellington says
CES: In microcosm, your 2:49 P.M. statement demonstrates why Christianity is easily superior to Islam, to wit, it “only” issues two threats—1) punishment in the next world for not accepting what Jesus and NT writers averred (examples being Mark 16:16 and John 3:18); and 2) God punishing you in this world for some Godly reason.
Contra Islam, which has the “third threat” enshrined in its theological corpus, to wit, the allowance for its followers to ALSO use force in this world to insure that Islam eventually rules over all the earth, as examples, 1) replete with death for apostates, Sura 4:89; and 2) the rape of women who don’t “cover themselves,” per Suras 4, 23, 33 and 70.
It all comes down to the “third threat” which is unique to Islam. Minus this tertiary threat, there would have been no 9/11 and the over 35,000 documented Islamic terrorist attacks worldwide since then. And this is why Islam should be as welcomed by mankind as a whole as a turd in one’s swimming pool should be.
Ade Fegan says
How very unislamic
mortimer says
ROBERT GEORGE IS A NAIVE POLLLYANNA WHO KNOW NOTHING ABOUT “AL WALAA WAL BARAA” … Islam’s ‘apartheid’ doctrine.
NO, Mr. George … MUSLIMS ARE NOT PERMITTED TO BEFRIEND THE DIRTY KUFAAR … Muslims must HATE the kufaar ‘for the sake of Allah’. (Al Walaa wal Baraa)
ISLAMQA says “THERE CAN BE NO DEBATE” about this hatred directed towards kafirs and Islamic apartheid from them.
WHOEVER IS A FRIEND OF KAFIRS ‘IS ONE OF THEM’.
https://islamqa.info/en/answers/72208/are-there-any-kuffaar-who-love-the-muslims-and-wish-them-well
QUOTE: “Allaah has stated in His Book that the kuffaar bear enmity towards us and they would not spare any effort to cause us harm, and they wish us ill, and they will not be pleased until we follow their way. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“O you who believe! Take not as (your) Bitaanah (advisors, consultants, protectors, helpers, friends) those outside your religion (pagans, Jews, Christians, and hypocrites) since they will not fail to do their best to corrupt you. They desire to harm you severely. Hatred has already appeared from their mouths, but what their breasts conceal is far worse. Indeed We have made plain to you the Ayaat (proofs, evidences, verses) if you understand.
To sum up, even if there are some kuffaar who seem to love the believers, one of the following three scenarios must apply:
1 – It is just artificial and outward show with no basis in reality, as our Lord, may He be glorified and exalted, tells us, and He knows best what their intentions are and what is in their hearts.
2 – It happens with the one who has abandoned Islam and has taken the kuffaar as close friends, and has thus become one of them, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “And if any amongst you takes them (as Awliyaa’), then surely, he is one of them” [al-Maa’idah 5:51]. Hence they are pleased with him and love him.
3 – It may be genuine but this is very rare, and what is rare does not prove anything. It may be due to the kaafir not adhering to his religion or because of his not caring about religion, as is the case with many of them nowadays.
What every Muslim must do is beware – as Allaah has warned him – of taking the kaafirs as close friends and confidantes and feeling at ease with them, whether the kaafir appears to be friendly or hostile, and whether he is sincere in his love or not. This is the established rule concerning which there can be no debate.
And Allaah knows best.
Mr. George, look up AL WALAA WAL BARAA. “There can be no debate.” said the mullah.
Lydia Church says
If folks would just educate themselves on what the Bible says, (as Christians), they would not be lead astray by all these smooth talking deceivers and charlatans!
I talk to folks all the time who argue that ‘oh, they try to read it, but they just don’t understand it…’ and so on. Then they let some wolf interpret it for them. Bad idea!
If you can read, it’s not that hard! I read it as a teenager (a young one) and got it!
All you have to do is:
1. Pray for God to open your eyes. Even if you don’t know who He is yet. If you are sincere and want to know Him, He will lead you. Pray that He helps you understand His Word, the Bible by the Holy Spirit’s leading.
2. Open the Bible. Read it all. It is best to begin in the New Testament and finish it, then start at the beginning and read through the Old Testament. (The reason is you won’t get hijacked into all the ‘Hebrew Roots’ cults beforehand). The NT illuminates the OT.
3. Read it all before jumping to quick conclusions, it interprets itself. If something seems confusing, just make a note of it. It will make sense later as you keep reading. You have nothing to complain about if you have not at least read it from cover to cover in some order.
4. Once you see it, pray and ask Jesus into your heart, and surrender yourself fully to Him, yielding your life over to Him. Pray as you are lead for receiving salvation.
5. Once you receive the Holy Spirit, He will enlighten the difficult and confusing parts of the Bible for you.
Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would lead us into all truth. The Bible is God’s Word and His Truth. THAT is all you need!
: D
Lars says
Well take a look at the Islamic symbols, then it will certainly be clear that the god of Islam is Ba’al and Astaroth (Ishtar). So who will you decide to follow? I choose Jesus Christ because He chose me on the cross where he conquered sin, death and the devil to give us life everlasting .
By the way, the handshake shown on the picture looks like a masonic hand sign/shake and the god of Freemasonry is NOT the God of the Bible but the god of this world (the devil).
Trick_or_Treat says
You are right, very observant, Lars.
infidel says
ha ha ha ha ,, greatest joke of the week.. so what else is new from these mad creatures and their lefty enablers…??
Twerzig says
Very interesting.
I’m more of pseudo trinitarian.
With God the Creator.
God the child.
And God the Holy Spirit.
The Creator is the sum of Creation.
That sense of infinity
sometimes felt.
God the Child is the
devine entity.
In this instance
the Jesus Event.
An oft repeating
devine spark.
Gods choice of
interaction with each of us.
And God the Holy Spirit
That substance that
God itself comprises.
And yet works
as though clay.
But nothing is there
without Mary.
The most perfect flower.
In the most beautiful garden.
So rare as
to seem miraculous.
Thought not to God.
Who see all.
A vessel
for a child.
That we may
listen to.
Or not.
Perhaps there have others.
Long time ago.
Who loved us too.
But we forgot.
Twerzig
Angemon says
Trick_or_Treat says
Again:
“Christians ‘Must’ do this, and ‘must’ do that, and ‘must’ do the other, …blah, blah…” !
As a Christian, why should I do any thing of the sort [ie, such as hold hands with, and embrace islam, and it’s phony qur’an, and it’s baloney allah]?
According to it’s baloney allah, in their phoney qur’an Christ has no divinity, is not God come in the flesh, and also everyone like me who KNOWS He IS Lord and Saviour, and who therefore rightly reject and denounce islam as being false and anti-Christ, must be killed!
What kind of true Christian are you going to get to do something like hold hands with and embrace islam? Probably only those like that idiot heretic pope in the Vatican.
Mak says
The recipe for peace is really quite simple:
If you want peace with Christians then stop killing Christians. If you want peace with Jews then stop killing Jews. If you want peace with Hindus then stop killing Hindus. I hope muslims will see a pattern here.
underbed cat says
Best comment very simple. Yes, you have to wonder where got their information from, that killing is a divine obligation I hear they don’t like to talk about it, something about it might be hate speech that might upset some people. Maybe a Imam could clarify or maybe not a good choice. Curious.
jopa66 says
The Koran commands them to kill any non believer of Islam or to subjugate them and make them pay jizra which is a tax levied against non-Muslims to be used for the benefit of Islam. There can never be peace with Islam as Allah forbids it. The Allah of Islam is the same as Satan in the Bible. Islam is Satan’s religion (one of them) and Muslim people are human beings who have been deceived wholeheartedly by this evil doctrine. It is our duty as Christians to share the gospel message with as many as we can. It is not our job to convert them. That is the work of God’s Holy Spirit. But we need to let them know that the blood of Christ was shed for them as well as for you and me. His crucifixion, death, burial and resurrection were as much for Muslims as it was for Christians, Hindus, Buddhist, Mormons, JWs, Jews, atheists… This is in no way “hate speech”. This is “Love Speech”. For Jesus Christ is the ONLY way to the Father. His sacrifice on that cross paid the price of eternal life to anyone who will believe. Jesus commands us to “love our enemies” and “love your neighbour as yourself”. We are also told not to be like them or do what they do.
Romans 10:13-14 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Dajjal says
“God so loved the world”… but Allah created a group “for the fire and I don’t care” (Mishkat ul-Masabih vol.3, pg. 318) He will take Muslims out of the fire and replace them with Christians. 70 of the “72 virgins” are Jewish or Christian women “taken from the fire”. Same God? Yeah, right?
gravenimage says
“Christians and Muslims must join hands….Let Christians and Muslims never again regard each other as enemies”
…………………………….
Right–at a time when Muslims are slaughtering Christians in Nigeria, waging Jihad in the West, and Erdogan is calling his jihadist mercenaries “Mohamed’s army” to chase “unbelieving Kurds” and Christians out of Syria.
Coram Deo says
Robert, you undoubtedly know a great deal about Islam. Unfortunately your understanding of Christianity falls far short.
Roman Catholicism is NOT Christian. It is counterfeit Christianity.
For that reason, the verse you often quote about the ‘blind leading the blind’ is highly appropriate in this case.
Dr. Doom says
Another naive scholar being taken in by Satan. There are many clergy as well holding hands with the Devil.
jca reid. says
Frigging Idiot these Religionists. Islam, by its very Nature, is intolerant. This Desert Bandit Nazi Ideology really needs to be dealt with & any Western spokesperson who says so, is deemed a Racist & “Islamophobic”. Islam hates EVERYTHING that is not of their doctrine! FACT!!.