Could the Hagia Sophia be next? What would stop Erdogan from doing that? For him, all these churches are just artifacts of jahiliyya, the society of unbelievers, and worthless, while if they are made into mosques they can show forth the supremacy and victory of Islam.
“Istanbul’s Chora church turned into a mosque. Fears mount for fate of Hagia Sophia,” by Marian Demir, Asia News, November 6, 2019:
Istanbul (AsiaNews) – The State Council has decided that the ancient Church of Saint Savoir [sic] Chora, be returned “to its initial cult”, that is to be used as a mosque. The pro-government newspaper “Yeni Şafak” reported this yesterday.
Orthodox Christians and Catholics fear that this decision could set a precedent for the Hagia Sophia, also under the threat of being transformed from a museum into a mosque.
The Church of St. Savior of Chora was built in the fifth century, and is located in the western district of Istanbul of Edirnekapı. It is one of the most splendid examples of Byzantine art, and still preserves mosaics and frescoes. Only since 1511 was it used as a mosque by the Ottoman Turks. In 1945 it was transformed into a museum until today….
The decision of the State Council for the church of Chora could open the way for a “Mosque of St. Sophia “.
Yohanan says
The Turkish court approved changing the museum of the ancient Chora Church into a mosque but their Turkish government cabinet reportedly has to approve, according to Nov 7 report of Ahval (reportedly an alternative secular pan-Arab Turkish news source based in London).
https://ahvalnews.com/hagia-sophia/turkish-government-decide-whether-reconvert-ancient-church-mosque
https://en.qantara.de/content/turkish-exiles-news-portal-ahval-hardly-politically-neutral
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chora_Church
Michael Copeland says
“to its initial cult”, namely, as claimed, Islam.
The State Council of Istanbul said it.
How informative of them.
mortimer says
Another Islamic ‘miracle’?
A church built 180 years before Islam in 450 AD … was supposedly ‘originally’ a mosque? Mohammed would have to be a time-traveller to accomplish this ‘miracle’.
Much of Islam consists of ‘miracles’ of illogic such as this one.
Muslims must continual remind themselves that up is down, left is right and inside is outside whenever Mohammed says. Islam is obscurantist … following a policy of keeping people from examine anything that undermines blind faith in multiple Islamic contradictions, anomalies and absurdities … such as a ‘mosque’ that predates Islam. St Savior’s Chora church is famous for its beautiful mosaics depicting the life of Virgin Mary and Jesus Christ, as well as other attractive frescoes from the 11th century, and are some of the most well preserved from the Roman era in all Turkey. The gorgeous mosaics are international art treasures from 400 years before the Turkish conquest of Constantinople.
Islam is the MOTHERLODE of absurdities … so a small absurdity like this one goes right past most Muslims and doesn’t bother them one bit.
Giacomo Latta says
Not to mention that Jesus (Issa) was a prophet of Islam 700 years before it was invented but yet with an alpha version of the koran in hand to do some proselytizing.
CogitoErgoSum says
The Muslims just can’t wait to deface the beautiful church built by the Christians and replace it with their ugliness. They are such destroyers – and liars.
Christopher Kelley says
Let us all FLOOD the Turk Ambassador with protest letters! This is totally ABSURD for them to claim a 5th C. church as “originally mohammedan” when it was built before Muh’d (POX be upon him!) was born!
The Amb. should be ASHAMED to serve such a bald-faced pathological LIAR as Erdogan & his minions! If they LIE on this, what other LIES do they impose on the people? Where are they different from the Nazis & J. Goebbels in that regard?
SUCH PHILISTINES!!!
I pray they only plaster over the priceless mosaics & frescoes once again, — or leave them so the “tourists” can still visit?
Is there UN “cultural monument” status for this church? THEN we should flood the UN Gen. Sec. as well!
John says
I fully agree with you. Only if “officials” are flooded with post will they start reacting.
somehistory says
And they claim to have “freedom of religion” in turkey. Such balderdash comes from moslims,;every day brings new lies and nonsense claims. This is just a part of their theft of things such as Jesus said of their “father”…the “thief comes to steal, kill and destroy.”
gravenimage says
You are right about this Taqiyya, Somehistory. This, for a week ago:
“Turkey’s ambassador to the Vatican claims that freedom of religion is protected in Turkish law”
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2019/11/turkeys-ambassador-to-the-vatican-claims-that-freedom-of-religion-is-protected-in-turkish-law
Of course, this was the same day this more honest story came out:
“Erdogan Extols Koranic Harshness Toward Non-Muslims, Seeks Their Koranic Conquest”
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2019/11/erdogan-extols-koranic-harshness-toward-non-muslims-seeks-their-koranic-conquest
Grimly, we know which view is confirmed by this awful story.
Ole Pederson says
Well, that is better than blasting it.
CogitoErgoSum says
Actually, I would rather see it turned to rubble than be a mosque.
crawford421 says
No! As long as it stands, as long as the art within it exists, it can be recovered and restored.
Historically, the Turks didn’t destroy art that wasn’t in their line of sight during prayers, which is way Chora and thr Hagia Sophia survived. Let’s hope they stick to this tradition.
Honest Ali says
You are very naive if you think that the Muslims will allow any of the priceless Byzantine art to be “recovered”.
But you go on ahead “hoping”…
Donovan Nuera says
The domed ceilings at the Hagia Sophia were too high for the Ottomorons to reach…that’s why they rememained inmolested whereas the lower mosaics were molested
gravenimage says
I don’t want to see Muslims destroy churches.
Yohanan says
In the 16th cent. the Ottomans covered up the frescos with plaster when they made the Byzantine Chora church into a mosque. Only in 1945 was the plaster removed to make a museum for foreign tourism in 1948. according to wiki.
gravenimage says
The Turks were just lazy–they just plastered over the great works of Hagia Sophia for centuries so that no one could see them.
b.a. freeman says
actually, Ole, it might as well be blasted, because any art inside it will be destroyed; remember that islam treats “images” as blasphemous, and orders their destruction. what’s the point of keeping a very old building with *NO* historical context standing, anyway?
Ole Pederson says
If you let Islam destroy all cultural heritage of jahiliya peoples then Islam wins and civilization ends.
If the Turks just paint over the art with plaster as they did before, then it can be recovered in a later age, not ours.
CogitoErgoSum says
I see your point. Yes, I agree with you that if the artwork is just covered over in a way that it could be restored later, saving the entire structure would be best. Then It could be re-consecrated and used again after taking it back from the Muslims.
Crusades Were Right says
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S teal,
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b.a. freeman says
nice one, Crusades; i’ll have to start using that one!
+1
b.a. freeman says
The decision of the State Council for the church of Chora could open the way for a “Mosque of St. Sophia “.
—
umm, no, because sophia wasn’t an islamic saint. i’m sure that the wannabe-caliph erdogan will have (probably already has) a favorite thieving, murdering, raping, child-molesting islamic thug chosen after whom he will name the “converted” church. and of course, the art inside it is blasphemous, so it will all be destroyed.
it is slightly satisfying knowing that the morons who refuse to learn anything about islam, presumably because it is a religion, and all religions are safe, doncha know, will at some point in the future towards which pious muslims are working be given the option of becoming muslim. the first few useful idiots, not comprehending the ramifications of their decision, will probably reject the demand, and thence become object lessons to the rest when their heads are removed. unfortunately, the rest of us will still be stuck with a sharia state, and civilization will end.
gravenimage says
They will name any church seized as a mosque for Muslim savagery.
revereridesagain says
There is at least some good news coming out of Turkey as more rational young people rebel against Erdogan’s imposition of Islamic law. Unless of course one would consider anything better than the “evils” of “deism” or atheism. For myself, I hope that these young people will remain safe and be able to encourage others of their peers to reject the anti-reason evil that is Islam.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43981745
gravenimage says
I hope so–but a lot of Muslim Turks are also becoming more devout.
“With more Islamic schooling, Erdogan aims to reshape Turkey”
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/turkey-erdogan-education/
Lotus says
Thanks for that link, Graven. It shows that Erdogan is definitely pushing Islamic schools in every way that he can.
There are frequent mentions in the article of ‘morality’ being an important issue in the popularity of these schools. But there are two problems with that.
One is that regular schools can also teach moral behaviour; it is not the monopoly of a religious school.
The second objection is the nature of this Islamic ‘morality’, which among the pious and devout inevitably ends in a theocratic totalitarianism and hostility to all non-Muslims.
The secular state created by Ataturk is being eroded year by year. In not too many years in the future, Turkey will look more like a Sunni version of Iran, and it will be right on Europe’s doorstep. Not a good prospect!
gravenimage says
Yes, Lotus–Islamic “morality” includes polygamy, forced and child marriage, raping Infidels and using them as sex slaves, robbing unbelievers, wife beating and “Honor Killing”, and mass slaughtering those who will not submit to Islam.
Some “morality”…
Infidel says
Not becoming: they always were. As Mark Steyn pointed out in one of his videos, only Turkey’s coastal elites embraced Kemalism, but the inner Anatolian Turks never did. And w/ the demographic transformation of Turkey – where the population of the Kemalists are decreasing while that of the pro-Islamic Turks in the interior is increasing, Turkey has more in common w/ Gaza, Sudan, Pakistan, Qatar than it ever did w/ even countries like Albania or Bosnia (forget about mainstream EU countries such as Germany or France)
Lotus says
There’s one good outcome to this increasing islamification of Turkey – its prospects of joining the European Union are effectively dead. That’s a relief.
gravenimage says
Yes–at least there is little talk now about bringing Turkey into the EU–that would have effectively destroyed Europe at a stroke to give these Muslims–as well as those from Iraq and the Islamic State who are waltzing in–complete freedom to enter and move around Europe at will.
Infidel says
Gravenimage, one could argue that Europe has already destroyed itself by opening up its borders to millions of Muslims from Syria, Libya, Pakistan and a whole host of other places. Not that I’m for it, but it’s hard to see how admitting Turkey into the EU would make it any worse
gravenimage says
I take your point, Infidel–even without taking Turkey into account. Europe is in terrible danger from her own foolish immigration policies.
That being said, though, if Turkey became part of the EU, its 80 million Muslims would have immediate unfettered access to all of Europe–this would, at a stroke, make all of Europe almost 20% Muslim. This would suddenly more than double even the nations with the highest Muslim population. Yes, this likely would destroy Europe.
As things stand now we still have a chance.
FYI says
“pope” francis most likely won’t care what hapens to the chora church;he is far too busy blessing pagan statues like pachamama whilst the vatican has a statue of moloch{a pagan god associated with child sacrifice}erected at the colosseum{which it owns}
I believe what we have manifested in Rome today is what Pope Paul VI said was “the smoke of satan”.
moloch/pachamama are pagan gods
gravenimage says
FYI, the Vatican does not own the colosseum:
https://maskontravel.com/blog/who-owns-the-colosseum-in-rome/
Infidel says
It was built by the ancient Romans, in the pre-Christian – let alone pre-Catholic – era. There’s no reason it would be owned by the Vatican, since it’s not a Christian monument
Christopher Kelley says
Infidel, I must correct you here. It was built by the Flavian emperors, after Nero, with the fabulous loot they stole from Jerusalem, in 70AD. It was built on the site of the “Colossus” that Nero erected of himself. It is also known as “the Flavian amphitheater.” Many Christians met their deaths there, by martyrdom, for the “entertainment” of the pagan multitudes. Now it is often the scene of Good Friday memorials, often led by the pope, as Pope St John Paul II did, “in the footsteps of the Martyrs.”
FYI says
@GI
Thank you.You are correct:the story comes from Breaking Israel News…which made that claim.
“with approval from the vatican:caananite idol moloch put on display in Rome”Nov 7 2019
It is a weird looking statue though!
gravenimage says
Thank you, FYI.
I agree–this statue is *very* disturbing. Here is a picture:
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/statue-of-ancient-god-of-child-sacrifice-put-on-display-in-rome-days-before-amazon-synod
This is especially odd for a couple of reasons–Moloch was not widely worshiped in the Roman Empire, and this is not a historical recreation, but is based on an image used in an Italian silent film. Why anyone thought erecting it at the Colesseum was a good idea is anyone’s guess. I suppose it is meant to shock, and pique interest in the museum show on Carthage.
jewdog says
Since this church predates Islam, it should not be subject to the Sharia prohibition of churches that may have been built after Islamic rule, but that’s only true according to the infidel calendar. In Islam time, Islam predates everything, which is why Jesus was a Palestinian Muslim and Adam and Eve were founding members of CAIR.
Battle says
“Thou shall not steal”.
Caliph Erdogan is stealing.
Dustfish says
Under Sharia stealing is acceptable if it supports the Ummah. Christians are not part of the Ummah. Christians are chattel because they ‘reject’ Mohamad.
FYI says
In fact the koran itself PERMITS stealing
“allah promiseth you much booty that ye will capture and hath given you this IN ADVANCE,and hath withheld men’s hands from you,that it may be a token for the believers,and that he may guide you on aright path”
koran 48:20
So permission is given {“in advance”}to steal and it is a reward{“a token for the believers”}and allah thinks this is morally OK!
And what is that Jizya tax only an islamic version of a protection racket:that too is THEFT.
islam:1,400 years of thievery and invading countries
gravenimage says
Yes, Dustfish and FYI–stealing from the Infidels is *sacralized* in Islam. Robbery, piracy, and caravan raiding are all Halal, and were practiced by the “Prophet” Muhammed himself.
Battle says
New Reply
When the State Council’s men go in the church will they find a New Testament? Where it says in Saint Luke Chapter Two Verses 13-14 ” … with he angel the heavenly host praising God and saying, ‘Glory toGod in the highest, and on earth peace, goodwill towards men.'”
gravenimage says
Turkey: Istanbul’s fifth-century Chora church turned into a mosque, government claims it was originally a mosque
……………………
This is a *5th century* church, and Constantinople was not conquered by the ravening Mohammedans for another thousand years. Muslims hope no one has any understanding of history.
Infidel says
Forget Constantinople: ISLAM itself didn’t exist in the 5th century, as Mortimer pointed out above.
Israel needs to follow this example and turn al Aqsa into a close facsimile of Solomon’s temple. Point to Turkey when they object, as they inevitably will!
gravenimage says
Also true, Infidel.
gravenimage says
Will the Muslims destroy all of this priceless Byzantine art? Almost certainly so.
Here’s more on this beautiful church:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chora_Church
Kay says
I wish I could see it in real life. The dedication of those early Christians is amazing and has lasting value. The art is wondrous and also the story of Christ told in pictures. May it convert hearts.
Ole Pederson says
As you can see, it has the typical church architecture of the time! This is basically what mosques were modeled after, later. Only the minarets were added!
Paul says
Please remember that various mullahs have announced that the pyramids of Egypt should be destroyed as remnants of idolatry.
Muslims destroy history, beauty and truth. Not to mention childrens genitals.
At least we are awake to the danger.
Paul
gravenimage says
Yes–and Muslims didn’t have the technology to destroy many of these works in the past. As the destruction of the Bamiyan Buddha in Afghanistan by the Taliban shows, now that they have Western technology they can be a lot more destructive.
Battle says
News source says Turkey requires president to have a four year college degree.
University’s Economic and Commercial Faculty was not created until 1982.
Erdogan’s official biography says graduated from Economics and Commercial Faculty in 1981.
During coup university records went missing.
A government review of education evaluation is requested.
By law election invalid?
gravenimage says
Even his Wikipedia page says that his claim to have graduated is disputed–many say he never even attended college. Of course, I wish this was the only dodgy thing about Erdogan.
Angemon says
It’s only considered “its original cult” under the islamic assumption that all biblical prophets originally preached islam and their message was corrupted by their followers and turned into Judaism and Christianity…
Spiro says
Islam is the great delusion
Even the elect would be mislead if that was possible
I think something like that without mentioning Islam directly is in the bible
We can all tell from Islamic teaching
It is anti Christ
Infidel says
Other ‘monumental’ news from elsewhere:
India’s Supreme Court rules in favor of Hindus in Ayodhya dispute
somehistory says
reuters reporst:
“”Ind.ian court gives disputed religious site to Hindus ”
“NEW DELHI/AYODHYA, India, Nov 9 (Reuters) – India’s Supreme Court ruled on Saturday in favor of a Hindu group in a long-running battle over a centuries-old religious site also claimed by Muslims, in a verdict that could raise tension between the two communities”
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/indian-court-gives-disputed-religious-site-to-hindus/ar-
Quite a difference from turkey.
gravenimage says
Glad to hear this, Infidel and Somehistory.
GreekEmpress says
This story breaks my heart.
gravenimage says
Mine as well, GreekEmpress.
Christopher Kelley says
And mine! I spent hours at the Chora Church, venerating the ikon mosaics on the walls, & the frescoes in the 13th C. chapel beside it, the glory of Byzantium before my eyes! I had to leave from a TWA tour group of Greece & the Aegean to do so, by special arrangement. I took the risk, as “eggplant” was the only word I knew in Turkish (‘patlajan’).
OH the ABOMINABLE TURKEY! Gobbling up antiquity! These “grains” are priceless gems! Like pearls before swine!
And to think the Turks may “buy” the nonsense of this place “returning to its original cult”!!! WHAT POPPYCOCK!!!
The Turk Ambassador in DC will hear from me!!!!
This chcurch OUGHT to be da “world Cultural Monument”, with suitable protections. If not, how long does that take to be applied? Does not the same apply to Hagia Sophia?
{BTW, that means “Holy Wisdom” – an ancient title of Christ!
Battle says
When the State Council’s men go in the church will they find a New Testament? Where it says in Saint Luke Chapter Two Verses 13-14: ” … with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying, “Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, goodwill towards men.'” (NewKingJamesVersion)