At Jihad Watch we keep asking that question. Let’s refresh our memories about how Turkey has behaved under Recep Tayyip Erdogan.
President Erdogan has repeatedly attacked the Kurds in Syria, who — whatever reservations some may have about them – have been our closest and most effective allies against ISIS. He has carried on a campaign of vilification against the United States for refusing to hand over Fethulleh Gulen to Erdogan’s “justice.” He has discharged tens of thousands of people – judges, lawyers, professors, civil servants, military officers – whom he wildly accused of being part of the failed coup in July 2016. Turkey continues to jail more journalists than any other country on earth. Erdogan has drawn closer to Putin and to Russia, and gone ahead with his pledge to buy a Russian S-400 surface-to-air missile defense system, which U.S. and NATO officials fear would lead to security breaches (for the Russians could test how the S-400 performed against NATO missiles supplied by Turkey, and tweak their defense system accordingly). He kept the American pastor Andrew Brunson imprisoned for two years, after a Turkish court absurdly convicted Brunson, the pastor of the Izmir Resurrection Church, a tiny congregation with 25 members — and gave him a 20-year prison sentence on assorted trumped-up charges, including that of being a C.I.A. spy and a member of the Kurdish “terrorist” group, the PKK, and worst of all, of being a “Gulenist” operative. Brunson was finally freed, most begrudgingly, and only after terrific American economic pressure (threats of more boycotts and tariffs) on Ankara. Erdogan’s plan was apparently to trade Brunson for Gulen; the Americans would have none of it.
Erdogan has called the Germans “Nazis” for refusing to allow his men to campaign for votes from Turks living in Germany. When Austria shut down some Turkish-funded mosques, this led him to predict a coming war “between the crescent and the cross,” leaving no doubt as to which side Turkey would be on.
And most disturbing of all was Erdogan’s calling for a gigantic pan-Islamic force to be created that could make war on, and presumably destroy, Israel. In Erdogan’s view, all 57 members of the O.I.C. would contribute, with Turkey taking the leading role. The plan was put forth in an article published by Erdogan’s most loyal mouthpiece, the newspaper Yeni Safak.
The very detailed article included this:
What If An Army Of Islam Was Formed Against Israel?
If the OIC member states unite and form a joint military force, it will be the largest army in the world. These countries’ total population is 1,674,526,931. The number of soldiers in active service in these countries is at least 5,206,100. Their [overall] military defense budget, of $174,728,420,000 is also worthy of emphasis.
As for Israel, it is significantly inferior. The population of this country, which attempted to occupy Jerusalem while surrounded by Muslim states, is 8,049,314. Note that the population of Istanbul alone exceeds 14 million. The number of soldiers in active service in the [Israeli] occupation forces is 160,000, and [Israel’s] defense budget is approximately $15,600,000,000.
Among the decisions that can be taken at the OIC [summit] is to form a ‘Jerusalem Task Group.’ In this framework, military steps are likely to be taken. The [Muslim] armies, ranging from Africa to Asia, surpass the Israeli [army in might]. So if an Islamic army is formed, Israel will be under a siege.
In a possible military operation, the first step is expected to involve 250,000 soldiers, and the establishment of joint land, air and naval bases for use in the short term.500 tanks and armored vehicles, 100 war planes, 500 attack helicopters and 50 warships and submarines can be mobilized.
There is much more detail, all designed to show the overwhelming superiority of the 57 Muslim states to Israel in their populations, in the numbers of their soldiers, in their defense budgets, and in their combined weaponry.
After this plan was published, neither the Americans, nor any other NATO member, criticized the Turkish plan to besiege Israel from every side and — it is not stated but is surely meant — to destroy it. And Turkey remains a member of NATO, in apparent good standing.
Quaere: Why is Turkey still in NATO? Is Turkish membership of any value to other members, or is its presence a threat to the effectiveness of NATO as that organization necessarily has turned its attention away from Russia, to the greatest threat now facing the democratic West, which is the menace, both foreign and domestic, posed by 1.5 billion Muslims? Isn’t Turkey’s mere presence at NATO meetings likely to inhibit free discussion of what may need to be done to counter a Muslim threat? It should be clear that Turkey is no longer the secular, Kemalist country it was before Erdogan came to power, and that the re-Islamizing of the country ensures that its loyalty is not to the West, but to fellow Muslims.
Of what conceivable benefit, militarily, is Turkish membership in NATO to its other members?
Didn’t Turkey prove its unreliability when it prevented the Americans from using the Incirlik base to invade Iraq from the north in 2003? In any war between NATO and a Muslim country — say Iran — how likely is it that Turkey would allow its airspace or bases on its soil to be used by NATO forces, much less contribute troops to a coalition of NATO military forces?
President Erdogan and his senior officials have repeatedly threatened Europe that unless it does Turkey’s bidding – and stops criticizing its policies (including sending troops into Syrian Kurdish areas), “We will open the gates and send 3.6 million refugees your way.”
Then there is the matter of hydrocarbons in the eastern Mediterranean. Ankara has threatened to take naval military action against those who oppose its exploitation of deposits of natural gas that are on the Greek side of Cyrus, and thus outside Turkey’s territorial waters. In October, US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo warned Turkey not to engage in “illegal” and “unacceptable” drilling off Cyprus. “We’ve made clear that operations in international waters are governed by a set of rules. We’ve told the Turks that illegal drilling is unacceptable and we’ll continue to take diplomatic actions to … ensure that lawful activity takes place,” he said. “No country can hold Europe hostage.” But Turkey hasn’t stopped its drilling plans in the waters off the Greek part of Cyprus. And holding Europe hostage is exactly what Turkey does, by repeatedly warning of those 3.6 million Syrians it can let loose into the continent at any time.
Turkey also threatens to “kick out the American troops from two critical military bases in Incirlik and Malatya.” This would be a major blow from a supposed NATO ally. The Turkish journalist Burak Bekdil notes that “The US nuclear warheads at Incirlik have remained at the disposition of the US military under a special US-Turkish treaty. The early warning radars stationed at the Malatya base, which are linked to the US Aegis system (deployed in the Mediterranean), provide a shield for Israel against any air or missile attack.” But that is all the more reason for Erdogan to want to close down the Malatya base, and shut off those radars; Erdogan is not about to help America help Israel.
In 2010, Erdogan claimed that Israel is “the principal threat to peace” in the Middle East. Not al-Qaeda, not the Islamic State, not Hezbollah, not Hamas, not Islamic Jihad, not the Muslim Brotherhood, but Israel, that has been fighting only defensive wars imposed on it by Arab states and terrorist groups ever since 1948.
And now we come to the killing of ISIS leader Al-Baghdadi. President Trump thanked Turkey for its assistance; it came second on his list, just after Russia, and the Kurds came last. But Turkey — like Russia — did nothing to help the Americans. One report said, lamely, that possibly Turkey’s contribution may have been to let the Americans fly over its territory. But if one looks at the flight plan of the planes coming from a base near Erbil, Iraq, they at no point flew over Turkish air space. There seems to have been absolutely no contribution by Turkey to the locating and killing of Al-Baghdadi. In fact, as Brett McGurk, who had been the Special Presidential Envoy for the Global Coalition to Counter ISIL, Turkey has “a lot of explaining to do.” How is it that Baghdadi managed to hide out just a few kilometers from the Turkish border, an area bristling with Turkish military outposts and troops? It strains credulity to believe that the Turks did not know where Al-Baghdadi was. It was the Syrian Kurds, Turkey’s enemies, who tracked Al-Baghdadi for months to his final lair. They ought to have been thanked first, not last, by President Trump. And Turkey need not have been thanked at all.
Turkey has never been interested in fighting ISIS. It was no secret that Turkey allowed ISIS fighters to cross freely into Syria from Turkey, no doubt because it preferred ISIS to the Syrian Kurds ISIS was fighting. And Turkey allowed wounded ISIS members to be treated at Turkish hospitals and then, instead of detaining them, let them return to the Islamic State.
As the veteran Middle East correspondent Trudy Rubin has noted:
Baghdadi was found, not in ISIS’s traditional area of eastern Turkey, but far away in western Syria, near the Turkish border and Turkish military outposts. This suggests that Turkish military intelligence knew Baghdadi’s location and didn’t share it.
Clearly, the U.S. military distrusted Ankara. They chose to launch the Baghdadi operation from hundreds of miles away in Iraq, rather than from nearby Turkey (a NATO partner), and reportedly they gave Turkey no advance notice. Yet Trump singled this ISIS enabler out for thanks, just the same.
There was no need to single out Turkey for its nonexistent help in locating al-Baghdadi. Some may assume that Turkey was “secretly” giving help that cannot be disclosed. But there was no help. The Kurds were the ones who helped us track Erdogan to his last redoubt, close to the Turkish border where he felt safe. And if the Pentagon so distrusted Turkey that it chose to launch the raid not from the base at Incirlik, but from Erbil, Iraq, and did not give the Turks advance warning because it feared Erdogan might alert Al-Baghdadi, that tells us everything we need to know about how our military views this NATO “ally.”
Shouldn’t all this matter? Erdogan’s attempts to held an American pastor hostage to exchange for Fethulleh Gulen, his mass jailing of political opponents and journalists, his threats to shut down two American bases at Incirlik and Malatya, his claim that Israel is “the principal threat to peace in the Middle East,” his detailed plans for a pan-Islamic force to destroy Israel, his constant invective against Europe, as when he called the Germans “Nazis” for refusing to allow his men to campaign for votes from Turks living in Germany, and when Austria shut down some Turkish-funded mosques, he predicted a coming war “between the crescent and the cross,” leaving no doubt as to which side he would be on.
Whenever the Europeans criticize Erdogan, he threatens that he can let loose “let 3.6 million refugees to flood Europe.” He is determined to lift hydrocarbons from the territorial waters off of the Greek part of Cyprus, in defiance of Secretary Pompeo’s warning not to do so. Turkey has allowed ISIS members to cross freely from Turkey into Syria, and has supplied medical assistance to ISIS members. The latest outrage emerges from what we now know about where Al-Baghdadi was hiding, a few miles from the Turkish border, in an area full of Turkish troops and military intelligence. There is in the Pentagon the strong suspicion that the Turks knew the general location, though perhaps not the exact town, where Al-Baghdadi was hiding. All this bespeaks not an ally – much less a NATO ally that deserves our protection – but an enemy.
Why is Turkey still in NATO? This question becomes harder to answer with every passing day.
terry sullivan says
why is turkey still illegally occupying northern cyprus?
mortimer says
Turkey is in NATO so it won’t ally with Russia. Not because NATO officers are under any illusions about Turkey. There is always the possibility that Turks will turn against the Islamist party of Erdogan and return to secularism.
Infidel says
Russia is a different country from the Soviet Union, which NATO was designed to combat. When communism was unraveling in Eastern Europe, Moscow wound up the Warsaw Pact, w/ the assumption that the Cold War was over. Yet, NATO continued to exist, and is today an international bureaucracy. It’s a defense version of the EU, w/ the US and Canada thrown in for company.
Really speaking, we have no business remaining in NATO at all. All the wars we’ve fought since 1991 have been in regions not covered in NATO, and involving Europe in those theaters just brings back to locals bad memories of colonialism. Today, in the 3rd millennium, our #1 enemy is China, so we should be in a regional alliance of countries threatened by them – Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Philippines, Vietnam, India and so on.
Let Europe – and Turkey – decide whether Turkey is a European country or not. As for whether Turkey will ever return to secularism, Mark Steyn explains pretty well why that era is over –
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGdByVDwmZo&t=160s
Infidel says
Above video, just see minutes 4:00-8:00 for the part on Turkey and why it will never again be secular
gravenimage says
Turkey is already playing footsie with Russia.
mortimer says
United States should establish a military base in Kurdistan, then call a referendum on Kurdish independence. The Kurds should be separated from the Turks and there will be more stability. Good fences make good neighbors.
Infidel says
Of course, and Turkey will do absolutely nothing to ensure that there is no Kurdish state on its borders, be it w/ or w/o Kurdish areas of Turkey.
Why don’t we just start a bombing of Turkey from Istanbul to Antakya? War# 8675309
jewdog says
The gensec of NATO, Jens Stolenberg had a lot of very nice things to say about Turkey, particularly for their help in fighting ISIS, despite all the evidence to the contrary, including the fact that al Baghdadi was right on the Turkish border (so how was is possible that the Turks didn’t know that?). As long as that idiot Stoltenberg is in charge, and we can probably include a lot of like-minded fools in the Pentagon, Turkey will be a member of NATO, I’m afraid.
Another big reason is inertia, the same lazy force that keeps our bases in Germany. Change takes so much effort, which is why you’re probably wearing the same pair of underpants as last week.
OldMan HistoryStudent says
As a formerly expat Norwegian having returned earlier this year, I cannot tell you how much he is despised by the ordinary Norwegian I am in contact with… It would seem his mission is set by the globalists like Soros and that NATO is no longer fit for purpose.
That said, today’s threat to western civ is NOT Russia (which is NOT at all like the former USSR), but it is the scourge of islam. The main problem about it making such fantastic inroads is something called the Barcelona Agreement which was created in the 1970s. UK ratified in 1995. It is an agreement that provided for free flow of arabian oil to the west which would be paid for with money for about 50 years, after which the balloon payment would be due: Free flow of arab immigrants into Europe and full acceptance of islam.
Now, if one reads the islamic “holy” texts, (koran, sunnah & hadith) one quickly learns islam is NOT a religion at all.
)Islam is a political movement to subjugate the entire world and set everyone in it under the doctrine called sharia while the program masquerades as the “religion of peace” the exact opposite of what it actually is.
Accordingly this needs to be made widely known and acknowledged by western powers that be (it won’t) so that the ideology can be forbidden like nazism and other ideologies.
No Muzzies Here says
You are absolutely right in your posting!
jewdog says
Thanks. I trust you’ve read some of Fjordman – great guy. Islam is BOTH a religion and a political system, actually a comprehensive system. Very coercive.
SAFI says
Stoltenberg is notorious for kissing islamist(and now turkish) ass for years. As prime minister of Norway back in 2008 he wanted to prosecute a Norwegian magazine for reproducing the Danish cartoons of mohammad(see Danish “cartoon crisis”, assassination of cartoonists by islamists) and he even blamed the publishers of the magazine for the burning of norwegian embassies by islamist lunatics. This arch-coward dhimmi is now heading NATO…
CogitoErgoSum says
Trump has been criticized for wanting to put America first. Why should that not be right? That is his duty as President of the United States. Is it not also the duty of a Muslim to put Islam first?
The Koran tells Muslims not to make alliances with Infidels. However, we know that they do this anyway because they will do anything that in the long term will benefit Islam. The Turks joined NATO at a time when Turkey was in need of help against the communist Soviet Union. The U.S. was also in need of help against the Soviet Union and so the Turks were welcomed into NATO. We and the Turks had a common enemy and we both could benefit from being allies. However, the Soviet Union is no more. The Turks do not see the Russians as a threat anymore and the U.S. should think the same way. If the Muslim leadership of Turkey were see no benefit from being a member of NATO I am certain they would withdraw Turkey’s membership. This is the same way our leadership should see things too.
A President of the United States can be voted out of office after a term of four years. Likewise, a member nation of NATO should be subject to being voted out of the organization after a specified time. The benefit to the rest of NATO of being an ally with Turkey is no longer there. Russia is no longer the threat it once was and the Turks are no longer the ally they once were.
Infidel says
Try telling that internationally to people like Emmanuel Macron, Angela Merkel, Justin Trudeau and so on, or domestically to people like Adam Schiff, Eric Swalwell, Mitt Romney, John Bolton, Marco Rubio, Max Boot, Bill Krystol or Meghan McCain. They’ll want Mueller to investigate you for being a Russian asset
When NATO was founded, their goal was having a maximum membership, and assumption was that the Soviet Union would always be there. Really, when the Warsaw Pact was wound up, NATO should have been as well, as Russia was no longer a threat to anyone. Yeah, today they have their adventures in Syria and are trying to prop up countries like Cuba and Venezuela, but unlike the Soviets, they have almost no allies anywhere in the world that they can rely on
Hoi Polloi says
When Erdogan’s thugs attacked protestors on American soil, that should have been the end of relations of any kind. Yet Obama did nothing and it remains unaddressed.
gravenimage says
So true.
Hoi Polloi says
Apologies. I have waited so long for action that it seemed longer ago than it in fact has been. That was 2017, so under Trump’s watch.
Ray Jarman says
There is one problem with expelling Turkey from NATO; it requires a unanimous vote of its member states and that may be impossible. When there were only twelve, maybe a consensus was possible but not now. Erdogan has threatened to dump several hundred thousand deadbeats onto European soil if diplomatic action were taken against Turkey for its actions in Syria and that could be taken as an attack upon NATO nations. I doubt if France and Germany possess the backbone to expel Turkey but maybe if Erdogan attacks the Greek islands near Turkey, just maybe a motion to remove the Turks would succeed.
CogitoErgoSum says
Requiring unanimous votes means that the majority will always have to yield to the will of the minority.
Ray Jarman says
I agree but the rules have been in place since 1954 and no one at the time could have foreseen the change in the world, especially the spineless leaders in the nations that comprise NATO, that has occurred. I worked at NATO HQ, Evere, Belgium for five years in the early 1980s and no one could have envisioned today’s catastrophe. I am a bit curious if the Turks and Greeks have even a little comradery exists between them at SHAPE Hqs. in Mons where the Greeks and Turks were separated as far from each other as possible. In the 1980s, the US government supplemented the pay for the Turks assigned at SHAPE and I am curious if this is still the case.
GreekEmpress says
Erdogan has threatened on more than one occasion to open the floodgates of “refugees” into Europe if his demands aren’t met.
Some ally!!!!
As far as camaraderie between Greeks and Turks—it’s more like enmity.
gravenimage says
That NATO members would keep Turkey in NATO because Erdogan is threatening them–which could be right–shows how craven many NATO members have become.
Ray Jarman says
GI, Unfortunately you are oh so correct.
Hoi Polloi says
One of my highest hopes for Trump was that he would pull the US out of NATO. I know that’s not simple, but I’m still hoping.
Trick_or_Treat says
Well, if shit like Turkey is going to be what constitutes NATO, then you don’t need to be associated with anything like that. It’s pretty simple, you inform the rest of the membership that you would would like a vote on It, and if nobody wants to expel Turkey (as it has obviously now become a hostile entity) then you just tell them ‘see you, bye bye, we’re out of here,and we hope you and Turkey are happy together. You gotta have some principles, and stick by them.
Christopher Watson says
We need a strong European leader. We need a De Gaulle or a Thatcher but they are thin on the ground. Trump needs to make his presence felt but he hasn’t done so yet.
Infidel says
No, that’s not what he ran on. He ran on ending America’s adventures in the world, and stop being the world’s policeman. The EU has been contemplating an European Army: surely they can take on such a project, and determine whether Turkey or Russia is their #1 enemy.
The US needs to focus on China, and the Indo-Asia-Pacific rim
Jeff Goodall says
Three years ago, there were massive, government-approved demonstrations at the gates of the NATO airbase at Incirlik, where nuclear weapons were stored. Mobs threatened to seize the facility from the U.S., for allegedly supporting a failed military coup attempt against Erdogan. The Americans should have promptly removed the nukes and placed them elsewhere in Europe. Did they do so? Or are the nukes now being used as hostages? Erdogan is either a dangerous lunatic, or he knows exactly what he is doing.
Save Europe says
I agree with the rhetorical question/title.
Answer?
One word.
Incirlik.
Infidel says
We don’t need 50 nukes there any more – the Cold War has been over for now close to 30 years. Pull them all out and re-deploy them in places like Israel, Cyprus, Greece and Bulgaria. That way, the Russians know that it’s not aimed at them
Save Europe says
Hi I.
My point was a cynical/sarcastic one. Incirlik was the answer, but it’s no reason to have any dialogue or agreement with any Muslim country.
IMO we shouldn’t buy any oil/gas from any Muslim country. Shouldn’t sell them weapons – for any amount of money/or to secure jobs in our own, as a result. We don’t need ANY bases in their vile countries either.
We should stay well away from one another. I don’t want them holding any supposed power over us, frankly.
Infidel says
Save Europe
Fully agree, even though I get why we’re still in bed w/ Saudi Arabia
gravenimage says
Neither Turkey nor Saudi Arabia nor any other Muslim nation is a real ally of ours.
gravenimage says
Why Is Turkey Still In NATO?
………….
A question I have asked many times myself.
Infidel says
My variations of that question:
– Why is the US still in NATO?
– Why does NATO still even exist?
medge says
“The Kurds were the ones who helped us track Erdogan to his last redoubt,”
I’m sure this isn’t what you meant to say Hugh..
Angemon says
How did that numeric superiority worked in, let’s say, Vienna or Malta?…
SAFI says
Thank you for pointing out Turkey’s very likely collusion with and sheltering of Baghdadi inside Syria’s last jihadist “safe zone” of Idlib which had for years been under turkish military control, and thus very “safe” indeed for Baghdadi to “hide”.
One small correction though regarding Cyprus. There is no “Greek part of Cyprus”. There is only the Republic of Cyprus which is the only internationaly recognised sovereign entity on the island a large part of which has been plundered and ethnically cleansed since it’s been occupied by the turkish military since 1974. Then in the mid 1980s Turkey set up a puppet regime on the occupied part of the island called the “Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus”(TRNC) which to this this day has received zero recognition from anyone (other than Turkey). “TRNC” hosts perhaps as many as 60,000 turkish troops which is the highest has to be the highest soldiers to civilians ratio in any region in the world. Since 1974 Turkey has also moved in 100s of thousands of Turkish settlers into Northern Cyprus to further secure its political foothold and help culturally islamize the previously relatively “secular” minded “Turkish-Cypriot” population.
You are right though that the only hydrocarbons that have been found so far are located in areas where Turkey or the TRNC would have no right whatsoever to exploit even if the TRNC was an internationally recognized entity with full sovereign rights (which it isn’t anyway)