One of the groups that believe in these books will refuse to submit or accept the new book, even unto torture and death.
The other group will riot and kill until this new book is definitively repudiated by everyone.
Guess which is which?
The repressive measures of the Chinese government are bad enough. This one, however, is just stupid, as no believers are going to accept the new books. This is likely to blow up (literally) in their faces.
“China to rewrite Quran and Bible to fit ‘socialist values,’” by Hamza Saleem, Islam21c.com, December 26, 2019:
In recent months, the world has had its eyes fixated on China, anticipating its next moves. The torturous methods inflicted on its Uyghur Muslim minority have come to light, millions of whom are held in modern-day concentration camps….
Chinese authorities have constantly denied its “ethnic cleanse” of the Uyghur Muslims since 2017, despite its blatant attempts to create a communistic nation. Instead, they claim them to be “vocational training centres designed to combat Islamic extremism.”…
But now China have outdone themselves and said that all “classical religious books” will be “re-evaluated”. It intends to rewrite the Islamic and Christian Holy Books in order to prevent “extreme thoughts” and “heretical ideas” from eroding the country.
The instruction for the rewriting of the Quran and Bible was given at a meeting in November held by the Committee for Ethnic and Religious Affairs, which is responsible for all religious matters of the country, so that it may be fitting of the “era of President Xi Jinping,” who despite being President, is also general secretary of the Communist Party of China (CPC)….
Beijing finalised the decision at the National Committee of the Chinese People’s Political Consultative Conference, calling for a “comprehensive evaluation of the existing religious classics aiming at contents which do not conform to the progress of the times.”
The project apparently extends to all major religions, including sutras from Buddhism, with the core aim of them needing to reflect the socialist values and beliefs of China’s leading Community Party….
They even highlighted that “Jesus Christ’s parables” will have to fall “in line with the Communist Party, without whom failing which they run the risk of being purged from the bibles available to the faithful.”…
Ajay says
I dont think it will blow on their faces. If Qur’an is banned for import and the only version available in China is the New Qur’an, then people will read it. China is an expert in suppressing any decent, protest etc.
Brian Hoff says
You are so wrong than good percentage of the Muslim population memonize the whole Koranm. Allah already is bringing divine anger on China the food harvest in China was very poor with the African swine flue killing all the pigs in China. The while world have than poor harvest this year. There are three outbreack of the airbrome black death in China already. Can China lose 80to 190 percent of they population to than really big black death outbreak.
Infidel says
That’s not allah: it’s the other Gods. Particularly since the swine flu has destroyed half of China’s ? making them import a lot of pork from the US: that’s what forced them to sign Phase 1 of their trade agreement w/ the US. While China has been forced to its knees by the US due to the tariffs and other policies, they’ve been completely on top of Islam. Pakistan is by now a virtual puppet of China, and even Saudi Arabia wants Chinese investment in their Neom project. If this was allah’s work, you Mohammedans would have been benefiting from it, and China would have tried to co-opt Islam, not tried to obliterate it
China has made Xinxiang unrecognizable: those Jihadists who dream of a ‘East Turkistan’ including historic cities of Kashgar, Khotan and Yarkand are in for a disappointment
Kios says
Thank you very much for your informative comment
Alrayan Adam says
Allah is doing this for a reason, and if He does not wish to have the Muslims benifet from this situation than it is for a good reason, and I trust Him. He is truly the Best Planner. He knows best, and we do not. It may not seem like a great decision to you, but your opinion of the best thing to do is not as great as Allah’s decision, because he knows what you know not. Read the Quran and you will see the beauty of this religion and how it proves its correctness.
FYI says
@Brian hoff
Regarding “memorizing the whole koran”
Can you {or any islamic expert} kindly explain..HOW and WHY your pagan Arab god al lah{“the BEST OF DECEIVERS” K3:54}
COMPLETELY MISSED..
1]The Golden Rule
“{Golden rule} is the meaning of the law of Moses and the teachings of the prophets”
Matthew 7 v 12
Why is it MISSING in islam and the koran?
2]The TWO CHIEF commandments
ist FIRST deut 6:4-9
2nd SECOND lev 19:18
Explain how your koran teaches the OPPOSITE:the koran preaches hatred of non-muslims k5:51 and encourages muslims to violate God;s laws{it gives permission to murder,steal,lie etc}thus TWO of God’s CHIEF commandments are violated by your ‘holy’ koran.
Explain please.
“The whole law of Moses and the teachings of the prophets depend on these two chief commandments”
So HOW and WHY does your god/koran teach the OPPOSITE?
Alrayan Adam says
What are you saying? The grammar was off, your tone was aggressive and not appropriate for the discussions taking place here, and you are not explaining your points enough. The only thing I can tell you is to read the Quran with no bias, and have an open mind. The Quran also never condemns killing non-Muslims, and punishes the killing of innocent people by saying that killing one innocent soul is as if you’ve killed the whole humanity. Verse 5 chapter 32. I encourage you to try to find it. It is easy and you can find a free online copy of the Quran by searching “Quran”. Also when the prophet (PBUH) took over medina he allowed the Jews to stay and be free and still be Jewish, as long as they didn’t disrespect Islam. This is the evidence off the top of my head, and and I hope you can find more. Have a great day.
ahmed says
dont put blame without know the true..try to know u creator who created u ask ureself who u r why u r here in the universe ..really if u r a real man ..sure isallah u will try to know the true..just dont put blame on others ..without knowing the true
.
gravenimage says
Looks like “Brian Hoff”–really, “DefenderofIslam”–believes that “Allah” is all about suffering, starvation, and death.
Certainly, this is how all pious Muslims see this vicious deity–and if “Allah” doesn’t provide enough suffering, then Muslims will be happy to provide it themselves…
Of course–unsurprisingly–“Brian Hoff’ is wrong about the harvest in China this year:
“Xinhua Headlines: China embraces bumper harvest with macro-adjusting in “grain barn””
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-10/15/c_138474111.htm
In fact, China has had very good harvests for the past five years.
And while African Swine Flu *has* hit China hard, the claim that it has wiped out all the pigs in China is *quite* false.
As for the Black Death, there have been exactly four cases in China–two from the victims eating a marmot back in May, known to carry the Plague. The more recent two are being treated and are expected to recover.
Of course, “Brian Hoff” is upset that China has not lost “190 percent of they population”–which might be difficult, in any case…
Infidel says
It’s not wiped out all the pigs, but it has wiped out 50% of it, which is why Beijing agreed to import US pork in Phase 1 of the agreement
I’m not sure how reliable Xinhua would be if it had to report bad economic news from China
gravenimage says
True, Infidel–but the NYT also reports a good harvest in China.
Richard Sanders says
I know the Chinese well, having worked/lived in the PRC during the 1990’s and having dealt extensively with both the PLA and CPC, while doing so on large construction projects. In addition, I know Muslims and Islam quite well, having lived/worked in Indonesia – also during the 1990’s on large construction projects – and also having gone through graduate school with both Sunnis and Shias during the 1979 overthrow of the Shah and rise of the Islamic Republic of Iran. I also underwent an intensive study of Islam (i.e., the Qur’an, Hadiths, Sharia law and history since 570 AD). In addition (and before I knew better back during the mid-1980’s), I constructed a Sunni masjid in Los Angeles, as well as having built quite a few musallas as parts of various projects located in Indonesia.
Just for the record, my intensive study of Islam was prompted by an apparent serious contradiction between my many pleasant life experiences involving both Shia and Sunni muslims versus the various horrors inflicted by ‘true Muslims’ upon Western Civilization, commencing back in the 1980’s and continuing up through today. It is to be noted that the so-called ‘radicalized muslims’ don’t actually exist – rather only ‘true muslims’ who follow the Qur’an (especially the Medinan suras, all fabricated by Mohammad, 622-632AD) together with the Hadiths and Sharia law to the letter, versus those ‘soft’ muslims who only adhere to following the ‘soft’ Meccan suras (all fabricated by Mohammad, between 610-622 AD).
The “true Muslims” — aka: those Muslims who follow both the Medinan and Meccan Suras and are obedient to the Islamic doctrine of abrogation, known as “naskh” in which the violent, blood-thirsty, hateful, murderous, enslaving, intolerant, self-arrogating Medinan suras override/supersede related “soft” Meccan suras — will NEVER accept any PRC-edited Qur’an. First of all, the vast majority of Muslims are illiterate and never read the Qur’an, but only accept that which their imams preach to them as ‘true Muslims’. Secondly, the ‘true Muslims’ willingly accept martyrdom – they look only towards spending their afterlives in ‘Paradise’, enjoying a drunken stupor while debauching young virgin girls and boys, and do not care one bit about the here and now except as a means by which to reach ‘Paradise’.
The Chinese have bitten off more than they can chew – they don’t understand )and hence they vastly underestimate) Islam, especially ‘true Islam’. Neither, for that matter, does the majority of Western Civilization (i.e, with the notable exceptions of the Poles, Hungarians, Italians, Czechs, Austrians and Conservative Americans). Such misunderstanding and underestimation of ‘true Islam’, only serves the ultimate purpose of Islam to the detriment of both the Chinese and Western Civiliziations.
The PRC will “put on a good face” and only show to the West, that which they want the West to see/believe as regards PRC’s treatment/toleration of Islam, however such a ‘show’ will only fail over time. Further and thanks to the internet, China’s failures as regards dealing with their Uighur population, will be exposed for the world to see.
The only manner in which the PRC could ever overcome Islam within its borders, would be to eradicate (whether by expulsion or simply wholesale massacre) all Muslims and that’s something that even Xi Jinping – the new Mao who will undoubtedly one day surpass the old Mao’s record of 80,000,000 Chinese killed – will not do as there’s no way in which the PRC can effectively hide from Western view, a genocide of that magnitude. What the PRC has thus far sown, as regards a failed understanding/estimation of the Uighurs of Xinjiang Province followed by a failed attempt to ‘re-educate’ same, will only continue to grow/fester with tragic results for all concerned.
One other point, the PRC is not a true ‘communist’ country by any means – rather it’s unbridled fascistic capitalism, where anything goes as long as you can get away with it. The CPC and membership therein, is a means to power/wealth for fortunate Chinese. While working in China, I had several very frank discussions with members of the PLA and CPC with whom I worked and they were quite candid about their pursuits of money/power via belonging to the CPC. In order to get our projects approved/constructed, my clients (all off-shore Straits Chinese from Indonesia) had to pay off members of the PLA and CPC, oftentimes quite substantially, and that practice was viewed simply as a requirement of “doing business” and was done without any acrimony upon the parts of either my clients and/or the PLA and CPC.
Reziac says
” First of all, the vast majority of Muslims are illiterate and never read the Qur’an, but only accept that which their imams preach to them as ‘true Muslims’.”
So… replace the imams with PRC-indoctrinated imams. Problem solved!
J D.S says
China may change the Holy Bible to fit…whatever…but …No one can change God’s word and Real Christians will not accept even if it is only in their hearts and death will resul and any change that takes away from the true meaning will result in God’s anger..Read the end of the Book of Revelations there one will find A WARNING FROM GOD .On the other hand Muslims will g r ear up their ugliness and protest with vigor….Now it might not fair the Muslims well because this is China’s not America.
Kepha says
Sounds a bit like what I recall from serving as a consular officer in Guangzhou back in the ’90’s. However, I believe there is a core to the CPC that truly believes its ideology, and sees the reforms which have made China “unbridled fascistic capitalist” as temporary, and to be undone as soon as there’s enough wealth made to steal and redistribute to the faithful or the favored class (gao gan zi di 高干子弟).
Chinese (both similified and traditional orthographies) is my second reading language, and I have followed developments as much as a busy teacher can.
Official China is extremely nervous about the “Abrahamic” religions, even to the point where when a couple hundred people in Kaifeng seek to explore their Jewish roots and a few “foreign friends” go frum in their old age and attend the Israeli embassy’s seder, the CPC circulates a document mentioning ominously about what happened to Soviet Big Brother after “those people” got uppity.
There were also crackdowns on house churches in Fujian, Zhejiang and elsewhere when more eighteen-year-olds applied for baptism than applied for Party membership (infant baptism is illegal, since it is “forcing someone to believe in religion”). Reports from Yunnan, Guizhou, and Guangxi also indicate that crackdowns were especially vicious against minority group believers (one problem with crackdowns on the coastal provinces was that a lot of ethnic Han Chinese Christians abroad descend from those areas, and would let the world know).
However, it is more than likely that circumventions of official firewalls, hacking, and smuggling will get the unadulaterated Chinese Union Version and Chinese New Version (a translation available in HK, Taiwan, and SE Asia since the 1980’s) into the Mainland; and my guess is that Muslims (at least Hui) will do the same with the Qur’an and Hadith.
BTW, I would not cheer for Beijing. The PRC is the world’s last, best hope for 20th century totalitarianism, and it knows it. I would also urge all Westerners here (including non-Western immigrants who have come to appreciate what Western societies have given them) to resist all attempts to impose the kind of surveillance state which China is actively pursuing.
愿上帝的国度临到中国与其他国家!阿们
gravenimage says
Agreed, Kepha.
Infidel says
I tend to agree w/ you. Beijing has diluted Xinxiang’s Muslim population by flooding the province w/ Han Chinese, since they had plenty to send there. And they have 3 million Uyghars in re-education camps. Once they have that new Quran available, that can be the mandatory Quran that Uyghars are subjected to, and they won’t have a clue of what’s in the real one. Also, unlike in the rest of the world, Uyghars are totally subdued and incapable of getting anywhere w/ a revolt
Reziac says
I think you’re right. China only needs to re-educate one generation with their ‘kinder, gentler’ Quran, and in the Chinese long view, one generation is trivial. And thereafter, that New Quran will be all their Muslims know. If we’re lucky, it’ll eventually spread to the rest of the Muslim world.
Infidel says
I don’t agree that merely 1 generation will be enough: look at the stans just west of China. They had 70 years of enforced Atheism, but Islam is now making a comeback. While most of the regimes there are still anti-Islamic, people are now free to explore their alternatives, and w/ Gulf-funded mosques in the region, they’re getting to discover true Islam. Kyrgyzstan in particular has been producing jihadists, since it’s somewhat freer than Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan, and that just shows what can happen if the crackdown is not enforced
ahmed says
they never can change the quran..because true quran..manny muslims in their heart ..also one and only all mighty Allah is protecter of this holly book..
Lion heart says
Ajay : the communist repressive and terrorist regime is just as bad as the repressiv, terrorist and bloody regime of Al-Ba’ath party of Saddam Hussein .
Infidel says
But the Baathists were/are not worse than the theocracies you have in Saudi Arabia, Qatar or the semi-theocracy you have in Turkey
Leslie Fish says
Ahahahaha! The Chinese govt. versus the Jihadists: I love it! Let them kill each other off; the whole world will benefit.
mortimer says
What a pointless exercise. Rewriting those books will make many Chinese curious about comparing the rewrites with the originals. It will backfire by motivating the believers to increase their faith.
Naildriver says
I do agree with your view that deprograming is a good means to thwart Islam’s progress, so the Chinese shouldn’t mess with their methods thus far, but sadly, for the rest of us, terrorism works very nicely for Islam in that thus far those who try such measures in the West are targeted for murder by Islam’s devotees — or those governments that have caved to such threats, with laws protecting Islam.
Ronald Fox says
China is not socialist. It is crony capitalism with a capital “FASCISM”. It will be interesting if they get their left-over communist party hacks to rewrite religious texts with a philosophy that nobody in China takes seriously anymore.
Infidel says
Since the demise of the Soviet Union, Communism today is whatever the Chinese say it is. The other countries – Venezuela and even North Korea and Cuba, are socialist.
Beijing pretty much redefined Communism to mean whatever China is today – crony capitalism w/ a fascist level of control on the people.
gravenimage says
The PRC is definitely Fascist, but not really Capitalist. A key component of Capitalism is that individuals may be certain of keeping the fruits of their labor–this is *certainly* not true in China today.
mortimer says
A Koran shorn of the 164 jihad verses and the many hateful rants against the dirty kufaar would be one-third the size of the original … a very SHORT book.
gravenimage says
So true.
JW_Reader says
Good point. Muslims with short attention span should love this new Quran. As long as China keeps those verses about 72 virgins and four wives in tact, most Muslims should not have any problem with it.
gravenimage says
The way Muslims get those celestial virgins is by slaughtering Infidels, though.
Umair Khan says
I am sorry, but you people act as if Islam is evil and all the people who abide by its qualities and laws are evil, discriminative (meaning anti-semetic and sexist) and malicious (meaning only ever want war or want to drag other people to battlefields). The reason you think this is because a group, that in no way, shape or form represent muslims or islam, called ISIS kill, rape and do despicable and despisable things towards people who are not in every way liked by Allah. I swear that Allah is the Most Gracious and Most Merciful, and that even if the whole world with every generation from the past, til the future were to try and change the Holy Qur’an, it would never happen. If you believe that Muslims and Islam is an evil and malicious thing, no one will ever be able to change your feelings, thus you are discriminative (in your hatred towards muslims and being somewhat Anti-Semetic, but towards muslims), malicious and evil (in how you want all this to happen to muslims). Second thing is that, if a muslim is hated and is hit, he should defend himself, so if a group of muslims are despised, discriminted against and slaughtered, because of their shahadah (testification) they shoudl stand together and fight for their rights. So slaughterin Infidels is not our goal, our goal is to attain and achieve peace and harmony, living with those who are from different nations. We should not be shunned or sentenced to extermination because of devotion and a taking of tesimony to become muslim. So please get your facts right about Islam and make sure you do not speak about a religion and way of life in this manner, because whatever belief you have (athiesm, christianity, etc.) it shoudl not be made fun of or despised because of a unpresentable and unillegible group is displayed as stereotypical, for people of this race, gender, religion, ethnicity, etc are.
I am not a scholar or a man, i am a 14 year old boy and I want Islam to be know as a good and beautiful religion. Not as something that is malicious and evil, because not all of us are.
Umair Khan says
After all, Shakespeare was anti-semetic. Read “The Merchant of Venice” then talk about anti-semetism and anti-christianity.
Umair Khan says
Get your facts right, 70. Also, these 70 “fair faced women (Hur’s)” will never be touched by anyone and will be so beautiful that every time you look away and return your gaze upon them, they will all be 70 times more beautiful.
gravenimage says
Umair Khan wrote:
I am sorry, but you people act as if Islam is evil and all the people who abide by its qualities and laws are evil, discriminative (meaning anti-semetic and sexist) and malicious (meaning only ever want war or want to drag other people to battlefields).
……………………….
This is what Islam teaches in its orthodox texts, and what pious Muslims practice. If some Muslims quietly fail to practice the savage tenets of their creed, that does not change Islam itself, or what most Muslims practice. Even here in the US over half of Muslims openly say they want to impose brutal Shari’ah law on us.
And this is not all that Islam teaches–Umair Khan left out child marriage, slavery and sex slavery, mass slaughter and genocide.
More:
The reason you think this is because a group, that in no way, shape or form represent muslims or islam, called ISIS kill, rape and do despicable and despisable things towards people who are not in every way liked by Allah.
……………………….
Firstly, can this Mohammedan cite anything about ISIS that is un-Islamic? Note that he doesn’t mention a single thing–*very* telling.
Then, he pretends that the only problem is ISIS–what utter claptrap. There is also Al Qaida, Al Shebaab, Boko Haram, and countless other pious Muslims, waging Jihad against Infidels all over the world.
Note that Umair Khan doesn’t address all the other pious Muslims doing exactly the same thing.
More:
I swear that Allah is the Most Gracious and Most Merciful, and that even if the whole world with every generation from the past, til the future were to try and change the Holy Qur’an, it would never happen.
……………………….
Sure–Muslims consider the vicious “Allah” to be gracious and merciful in demanding the rape, robbery, enslavement, and slaughter of Infidels–but this just shows that Muslims use language differently than we do. Of course supremacist Muslims don’t want to stop brutalizing Infidels and lax Muslims. Unlike Umair Khan, few here at Jihad Watch consider this a good thing.
More:
If you believe that Muslims and Islam is an evil and malicious thing, no one will ever be able to change your feelings, thus you are discriminative (in your hatred towards muslims and being somewhat Anti-Semetic, but towards muslims), malicious and evil (in how you want all this to happen to muslims).
……………………….
In other words, how *dare* we want Muslims to stop persecuting and murdering us? Bad dhimmis!
Note that he considers us wanting to live in freedom from Muslim savagery to be “discriminative” (sic).
And it is apparently “malicious and evil” for us to “want this this to happen to Muslims”–i.e., have them stop brutalizing us.
More:
Second thing is that, if a muslim is hated and is hit, he should defend himself, so if a group of muslims are despised, discriminted against and slaughtered, because of their shahadah (testification) they shoudl stand together and fight for their rights.
……………………….
Yeah–we’ve heard this before–that all Jihad murder of Infidels is somehow defensive. What tripe.
More:
So slaughterin Infidels is not our goal, our goal is to attain and achieve peace and harmony, living with those who are from different nations. We should not be shunned or sentenced to extermination because of devotion and a taking of tesimony to become muslim.
……………………….
It’s true that slaughtering Infidels is not Muslims’ only goal–if everyone immediately submits to Muslim savagery, this is good, too…
Note that “peace” in Islam is only achieved if all non-Muslims submit to Islam.
Note the conflation of shunning Jihadists with genocide–what crap. Pretending that Infidels living in peace rather than the Muslim heel is “sentenced to extermination” is just grotesque, but scarcely surprising here.
More:
So please get your facts right about Islam and make sure you do not speak about a religion and way of life in this manner, because whatever belief you have (athiesm, christianity, etc.) it shoudl not be made fun of or despised because of a unpresentable and unillegible group is displayed as stereotypical, for people of this race, gender, religion, ethnicity, etc are.
……………………….
Actually, many of us here are *very* well informed about Islam, having read the Qur’an, Hadith, Sira, and much of the Tafsir. This is just what Muslims *don’t* want–educated Infidels who know *just* what Islam teaches. Then, the idea that Muslims respect the people they persecute and butcher could not be more grotesque. A large part of the Qur’an consists of condemnation of all unbelievers and exhortations to attack and murder them.
More:
I am not a scholar or a man, i am a 14 year old boy and I want Islam to be know as a good and beautiful religion. Not as something that is malicious and evil, because not all of us are.
……………………….
Given his phrasing–although not his spelling–this seems rather unlikely.
But if this is actually the case, then Umair Khan has time to actually read the vicious texts of Islam, and to reject their savagery if he is what he says.
More likely, of course, this is just a big load of Taqiyya.
More:
After all, Shakespeare was anti-semetic. Read “The Merchant of Venice” then talk about anti-semetism and anti-christianity.
……………………….
Where to start? Firstly, having a character say “hath not a Jew hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions; fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer as a Christian is? If you prick us do we not bleed?” actually shows a great deal of sympathy towards Jews–certainly more than “the stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdullah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him”.
Then, William Shakespeare was not a religious figure–nothing that he ever had to say is considered scripture.
Then, William Shakespeare himself never killed Jews.
But this is *not* the case with Islam. Islam preaches the murder of Jews, and the “Prophet” himself robbed Jews, enslaved Jews, raped Jews, and slaughtered and committed genocide against Jews.
These two things are in no manner similar.
More:
Get your facts right, 70. Also, these 70 “fair faced women (Hur’s)” will never be touched by anyone and will be so beautiful that every time you look away and return your gaze upon them, they will all be 70 times more beautiful.
……………………….
This is not what Islam says. According to Islam, these Hurs are to be constantly raped by “Martyrs” in Paradise, but remain eternal virgins so they can be raped again as if for the first time. Sick stuff.
Carol the 1st says
@Umair…Wording a sentence in this way “So please get your facts right about Islam and *make sure* you do not speak about a religion and way of life in this manner…” is taken as a threat in plain English. Sounds like you’re not as “different” as you think.
And in regard to Shakespeare, you’ve likely been steered to happily suppose he was anti-semitic. Shakespeare took pains to portray characters *as they were* even if this might be taken as his very own point of view. He had to be careful about speaking openly in his day but he trusted the intelligence of his audience to be capable of seeing through the surface impressions and to thus give greater thought and recognition to their own dark side once a MIRROR was held up in front of their faces. It kind of serves the same purpose as HEADLINES do today. You should think about that and hold yourself responsible for your choices. Soon childhood will be gone and the world is trying to tell you something.
gravenimage says
Agreed, Carol–this was certainly intended as a threat.
Warren Memlib says
“Holy Bible, Batman, Socialist Scriptures and a Kommie Koran!”
Peter Buckley says
I suspect the Chinese authorities are far more worried about the spread of Christianity in their towns and cities, than they are about Islam:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/10776023/China-on-course-to-become-worlds-most-Christian-nation-within-15-years.html
gravenimage says
That’s because the Communist Chinese hate any kind of freedom of conscience and thought far more than they hate murderous savagery. They have a lot of experience with the latter–the former, not so much…
Carol the 1st says
It seems Christianity somehow garnered far more determination, devotion, and fight in its citizens than anything else. China is widespread, diverse, and somewhat fragile. The leaders know the high cost of dealing with different factions and that, it is said, explains why they crack down on religions in particular, with such ferocity.
No Muzzies Here says
Better idea: rewrite it and remove all the violence, hate, and calls to violence. Then it will be a one page book.
David says
If this is true and China goes ahead with rewriting both the Koran and the Bible to reflect socialist values, it really is very funny, like something out of a Monty Python film.
It will be a pointless exercise.
I’m reminded of Thomas Bowdler in the 19th Century who rewrote Shakespeare’s plays to take out all the references to sex so women and children could read Shakespeare without being offended.
Who bothers to read the Bowdlerised versions of Shakespeare?
Similarly, no one will bother to read the “socialist” versions of the Koran & Bible.
Surely the very concept of an almighty God goes against socialist values of equality?
Communism of course rejects all religion.
As Karl Marx is reputed to have said “Religion is the opium of the masses”.
So all good communists/socialists should be atheists, as they are working to a new utopian world which does not need religion.
Infidel says
Communism is very much a religion – every bit as much as is islam
Roland says
Censorship of historic religious documents is cultural vandalism! Like dynamiting the Bamiyan statues. The Catholic Church and governments in (most notably) Russia and Poland have censored Jewish books. Usually they hired apostates to do the dirty work. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/censorship
Carol the 1st says
If there’s anything “bad” left in the Bible I’m sure we all know it was of its time and not ours. And Shakespeare seemed to have as much respect for women as for men – if his work was ‘bowdlerized” it would have been to assuage the puritanism of that more cautious century. His treatment of Othello has surprised me – fundamentally he shows both he AND his 16th century society showing great respect for Othello and his natural talents. Negativities are depicted but this showed what existed (both inside Othello and inside the environment) and the dangers of over-emotionalism (Othello) manipulation (Iago), and paranoia (society and old age partly to blame).
The Koran shows us no respect. Muslim adults should know full well why China feels no guilt at rearranging it to its own benefit and good taste.
Kesselman says
China and its leading force the CCP has in many ways turned national socialist if not from the beginning. The country has all the characteristics of their forebearers, the Third Reich: the totalitarian aspect of course but also marginalization of minorities and persecusion of all political dissidents and huge KZ-camps. Last but not least the Nazi habit of killing off all close relatives to a perceived enemy of the state. Not to mention religion which is an abomination to any socialist entity.
Anonymous says
Maybe I am idealistic but…..It is true that one can be amused thinking there will not be much left of the Koran if it is rewritten along socialist values without all the koranic violence. But this is the first action a contemporary government takes to halt Islam’s deadly obsessive war for its hegemony upon the whole world. I believe that with the right management with a hand of steel the new Koran can become popular. The two versions of the Koran will be compared and the original will reveal its horrors. As for a new version of the Bible, I don’t know what the Chinese communist party will come up with. And I prefer the moves of China which is an ever changing country which has therefore the possibility of improvements than Islam’s.
gravenimage says
Anonymous, Muslims *love* the horrors of Islam.
Michael Copeland says
Witness Iran:
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2019/12/iran-quran-expert-says-quran-commands-that-protesters-should-die-in-agony-not-merely-be-killed
gravenimage says
Spot on, Michael.
Anonymous says
I recognize that China has a dangerous governement. Too much for humanity but maybe just enough to help crush Islam. If only the Western government just made Islam completely illegal and erased all its manifestations from all of society.
keith says
Not a bad train of thought.
If the Chinese government can make an entire country (Tibet) disappear, then the possibility of making a cult like Islam vanish may well be within their grasp.
Infidel says
Tibet may look huge, but it’s a mountainous plateau that hardly has much of a population. Which is why it was not difficult for not just the Chicoms, but past Chinese emperors to overrun and conquer
gravenimage says
True, Infidel–Tibet has a population of only 3 million–while China has a population of *1.4 billion*.
And as bad as things have been in Tibet, China has not been able to wipe out Tibetan Buddhism, due to their being able to find sanctuary in India and the West.
keith says
Fair enough comment, however a slight problem.
In the past, before Tibet converted to Buddhism, they were a VERY warlike people and invaded China on more than one occasion. Once they turned to a peaceful existence,,,,well the rest is history.
I do find it interesting that the Chinese are still so scared of the Tibetan people that His Holiness the Dalai Lama is listed as a terrorist by the Chinese government.
gravenimage says
Keith, I don’t think that China is oppressing Tibet because of things that happened centuries ago.
jewdog says
I’m looking forward to reading the “Little Green Book” with quotations from Chairman Mohammed. I imagine it will exhort his followers to collect jizya from rich capitalists, and, if they refuse, to strike at their necks. All proceeds to go to Dung Shiao Ping and his Commissars. Bernie Sanders can wave it at his rallies when he’s denouncing “billionehs”, alongside Linda Cockroach or Ilhan Omar.
Infidel says
jewdog, Dung Shiao Ping died in 1997. Beijing’s current ruler is Xi Jin Peng, and he has been described by Gordon Chang as the most powerful Chinese ruler ever, w/ powers surpassing even Chairman Mao.
Other than that, your parallels b/w Chinese Communism and Islam is just brilliant!!! ???
jewdog says
Thanks, Infidel. I know Dung is gone, but I was too lazy to look up the current head Chicom shmo.
I like how some names start with X. I wonder if there’s anyone out there named Xi Xavier Xerces, who lives in Xiamen and plays the xylophone?
Infidel says
jewdog, years ago at Costco, when digital cameras were still not too popular and I had to develop a bunch of prints, I dropped the film roll in one of their envelopes and put in a fake name of my own, starting w/ Q and X, so that that envelope would stand out alone and I wouldn’t have to dig from a whole bunch of them. That move backfired: there were a whole bunch of Chinese as well whose real names did start w/ that, so I still had to hunt for my prints before I found it. That was the last time I tried that experiment
Pre Communism, Chinese names used to sound pretty cute – Peking, Sinkiang, Nanking, Canton, et al. Once they switched to a different alphabet where all the Z’s, X’s and Q’s took over, it became pretty wierd. That said, I hate the idea of a ‘Peking’ being a communist city, but have no such issues w/ a ‘Beijing’ being one, so maybe it’s just as well
Infidel says
Thankfully, the capacity of the other group to riot and kill has been totally neutered by the occupying Han Chinese in Xinxiang: already, there are 3 million of that group in re-education camps, and that region has been flooded w/ Han Chinese to make that group a minority in that region itself.
A couple of thoughts struck me. Why are they re-writing those books when they already have Mao’s Lil Red Book? Just ban all translations of the Bible and Quran in Chinese – both Mandarin and Cantonese – and then provide both groups w/ the Lil Red Book, w/ covers saying ‘Bible’ for Christians and ‘Quran’ for Muslims. I mean, why go through the pain of re-writing the stories in ways to justify Chinese Communism, which is impossible?
Another idea for the Quran – leave it as it is, but declare the Lil Red Book the tafseer for the Quran that the Chinese must follow. This new sect of Islam can be called Xinhua Islam ?
Incidentally, this is not the first such attempt to re-write the Quran. In Turkmenistan, during the Niyazov regime, a book called Ruhnama was written by Niyazov, and that was the book all Turkmen had to know to advance: they were tested on the book. That practice has been dropped by the current president.
ntesdorf says
Not too much change needed in the Bible, but the Qur’an will need a refit from the water-line up!
gravenimage says
ntesdorf, I suppose you have accepted the idea that Communism is really about sharing and equality–but sadly, it is *not*.
In fact, Communism is an incredibly brutal creed. This is why so many are trying to escape Communism, and why Hong Kong is so desperate to maintain her freedoms.
tim gallagher says
The way you have described the difference between Christianity and endlessly violent Islam in the first couple of sentences up above, Robert, is spot on. Often, the people on the left seem to attack Christianity because they know no Christians will come back and violently attack them, which is a good thing, but they won’t criticise islam because they realise that the violent barbarians who are members of islam will definitely attack them in a murderous way. I find the Chinese government loathsome, but, I must say, given the terrorism and other crimes Muslims always seem to carry out, I can’t get too upset about their treatment of the Muslims in China. Maybe I should, but I can’t muster the outrage many people seem to feel. I also found that I tended to agree with Burma when it threw out the Muslims from that country. I suppose I think that if a group, such as Muslims, cause neverending trouble in a country, then, if they finally cop retribution, then it is pretty much deserved. It is probably the same as when Europe, all those years ago, finally threw the invading Muslims out.
Paul says
I suspect that the major reason leftists are supportive of Islam are varied, but always based upon good leftist thinking.
1) Muslims present themselves as underdogs and victims. No true leftist can pass up a chance to help a victim, no matter whether the victimhood is fiction or self-inflicted. Imaginary victimhood counts just like real. Muslims in America and elsewhere today are treated exactly like American blacks were over 50 years ago, right?
2) Leftists detest Christianity – so it’s easy for leftists who somewhat understand Islam to support Islamic detestation of Christianity too. Even if the leftist doesn’t know much about Islam, at least Islam isn’t Christianity.
3) Parallel to number (2) above, contemporary leftists also detest “Western civilization” partly because of its association with Christianity and its legacy of evil colonialism. And most leftists buy into the Muslim claim that all of Islam was colonized and oppressed by the evil West. They ignore the fact that three major Muslim countries – Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Iran – never were colonized by Westerners. Westerners did try in Iran to influence events by coups and subterfuge but never had any permanent success.
I know that it is wrong, but part of me gives the PRC credit for recognizing a danger to its power and taking what it believes are rational and effective methods to counter it. They unblinkingly identify problems and threats to their state, and are undeterred by “human rights” or other Western ideas in their effort to root out any potential threat. Would that Western governments had the same clarity of vision, although I draw the line at using the PRC’s methods.
tim gallagher says
I agree with everything you’ve said, Paul. Of course, it is truly bizarre that the left can possibly support Islam which stomps all over women’s rights (the left are supposed to care so much about women’s rights) and islam stomps all over gay rights, and so on. But you’re right, it seems that Muslims somehow are seen as an underdog and victim, so the left find some way to support them despite their atrocious, barbaric attitudes to the human rights of all types of people. Also, of course, Islam and the left loathe our western civilisation, so they share that. I wish, just as you say, that our western societies were tougher on Islam, say, somewhat like Hungary and the Visegrad countries. I live in Australia, so China is a pretty scary bully out in our part the world, an awakening giant, and people here are becoming aware that China is going to totally dominate our area of the world. So, it is hard for me to like anything about China (ie its government, not the people), but, as I said, I just can’t feel sympathy for Muslims because, when they have power, they always seem to treat non-Muslims like garbage.
FYI says
Rewrite the koran?
Better to scrap it..
What is MISSING in the koran..
Any concept of OBEYING God’s commandments{see Exodus 20:unhelpfully,allah doesn’t list them in his ‘holy’ book but then allah is called the “BEST of DECEIVERS” k3:54 for a reason isn’t he?allah isn’t too fussy about those pesky Judeo-Christian Commandments}
The koran,by saying it is OK to violate God’s official Exodus 20 Laws violates the FIRST CHIEF COMMANDMENT{Deut 6:4-9}
{If muslims have to find out about the commandments can you guess what book they will have to consult?The BIBLE
Also MISSING in the koran and in islam:the Golden Rule{matthew 7 v 12},the SECOND CHIEF Commandment “Love thy Neighbor” lev 19:18,any understanding of the essential role given to the Jews{“It is from the Jews that salvation comes” John 4:22}…NO HOLY SPIRIT{ as allah tells muslims NOT to believe in it k4:171..}
The koran needs to be thrown out,its false prophet rejected…
European pagan says
Quran made in China. Chinese food in heaven and a 72 years old virgin in the hell 😉
My question… who wants to read (holy) books that are not ‘original’? Noone will buy them. They will download Quran apps
Infidel says
You’ve obviously not been following the social media KGB that exists in China. Apple and Google have to keep out apps that Beijing doesn’t like or approve of. In China, Apple Maps and Google Maps don’t show Taiwan as an independent country, for fear that Beijing will ban them. If one googles ‘Dalai Lama’ in China, one will get either nothing, or just a bunch of Chicom articles critical of him. You think the Uyghurs in Xinxiang or the Hui Chinese can download Qurans online? Fat chance!
gravenimage says
I don’t think people will simply be invited to buy these books as they would be in a free society–instead, Churches and Mosques will be supplied with these bowdlerized books or nothing.
Alarmed Pig Farmer says
This is an exciting plan, rewriting the Holy Ko-Ran and the Bible. But the Commies running China don’t see the difference between the two: the Bible is a long sequence of Parables filled with metaphor; the Ko-Ran is a short book of declarative statements narrating how the Bible was wrong, a terrible mistake, the price to be for it, and who has to pay.
Put that in your Globo-Socialist pipe and take a puff. It ain’t as good a smoke as even a lousy cigarette or a bowl of pot, I’ll tellya that.
gravenimage says
+1
revereridesagain says
That is quite possibly the strangest headline I’ve seen all year. Do the people who write “South Park” know about this?
Alarmed Pig Farmer says
Yeah, they know about it. But, after their episode about the Holy Prophet Mohammed, they’re silent. Nobody wants to live with a coterie of body guards worrying about their children being killed.
Go Buffaloes/
Carol the 1st says
Seems they “saw the Light”! It’s human nature and a real plus to a creed like Islam. When I see crazies I protect my belongings, lie low, and hope they’ll go away on their own steam.
Carol the 1st says
But Daniel Triplett says we HAVE to hurt them!!
Victory in Christ. says
This is interesting. So the Quran and the Bible will be re-written to reflect socialism teachings. I wonder if the Bernie and AOC are planning to do the same. I am sure that throwing out the Bible and the Torah would be no problem for them. The Quran? There good buddies in islamville may not like that idea. In fact if Bernie and AOC don’t accept islam as being the all in all and abandon socialism to islam, they will learn the hard way about how moderate and religion of peaceful islam is not.
Bernie might be sent away to an old folks home if lucky and live out his days mumbling to himself about running for the office of the grand muffti. AOC would not be so lucky. As an infidel woman she would be getting a lot of unwanted attention. Terrifying thought.
I agree with other threads that China is going to be a force islam will find to be a powerful dragon. I do not believe islam understands what it is getting into. Oh well…too bad for islam. The shoes of terror and submission are going to pinch badly when shoved on Mohammad’s feet.
The U.S. needs to be a stumbling block for islam as well. Uncle Sam, in our own way, can shove those shoes on Mohammad’s feet as well. We need to wake up.
JHL says
Better yet, burn the qur’an and end its pernicious ideology.
libertyORdeath says
“…no believers are going to accept the new books.”
I feel like China is taking a longview approach to this issue and may well succeed in later generations. You may not be able to fool those who have seen the real thing, but in a decade or so if those books are the only ones available it may have the intended effect.
gravenimage says
libertyORdeath, Communist China is not actually about liberty.
Carol the 1st says
Worked for the Marxists in the Netherlands and only took a generation or two.
gravenimage says
China plans to rewrite the Qur’an and the Bible to fit socialist values
One of the groups that believe in these books will refuse to submit and accept the new book, even unto torture and death.
The other group will riot and kill until this new book is definitively repudiated by everyone.
………………….
That sums it up…
Chand says
Abridged religious books: GOOD.
Massively abridged religious books: EVEV BETTER.
No religious books (except for cultural or historical studies): THE BEST!
Chand says
…..EVEN BETTER.
Infidel says
So you’re for Islam being under assault, as long as the Chicoms do it?
Well, that’s a start!
gravenimage says
Chand hates religion in general–yet often whitewashes and spouts apologia for Islam.
He is also in favor of crushing freedom of conscience–very much like Muslims.
Aton says
The Koran has already been rewritten as a ‘New Revelation’.
See The Enlightenment Koran on Amazon.
The tablet version is only $2 – and it is quite funny.
Instead if unbelievers being burned in the fires of hell.
…they are given a cup of hot earl-grey tea….
Aton
OLD GUY says
The islamic and the communist nations what to destroy America because of our freedoms and success. They are both only interested in world control and power.