Fillon is quite right, but by the time most Western leaders wake up to that, it is likely to be far too late. In fact, it is unlikely that they don’t know it now. They just have other priorities and goals.
“Former French PM: ‘The fate of (Middle) Eastern Christians is the prelude to our own fate.’” Capstone Report, December 19, 2019:
Former French Prime Minister François Fillon warns that persecution of Christians in Middle East is a prelude to ‘our own fate.’ Fillon was Prime Minister under former French President Nicholas Sarkozy (2007-2012) and was the Republican Party (France)’s nominee for president in the last election (2017).
“Together we know that the future of the West and the future of the East are intimately linked, and that the fate of Eastern Christians and other minorities is the prelude to our own fate,” Fillon said in a speech to a conference held in the French Senate chamber on the protection of religious minorities in the Middle East. (“Le sort des chrétiens d’Orient est le prélude de notre propre sort.”)…
“Among the many causes which are worthy of being defended—that of the Christians of the East has always touched me. No doubt because this cause has long been defenseless. It cannot be said enough how silent and cowardly the European states and their elites were in the face of the gradual disappearance of one of the oldest and most brilliant communities in the Middle East. Why again this cause? Because I am convinced that the decline of fundamentalism and peace for all requires freedom of belief and freedom of conscience.”
…
“In the midst of all these errors, at the heart of all these storms, the Christians of the East were the hostages and sometimes the necessary accomplices of the harshest regimes, then the victims of the Islamists who promised them the coffin or the suitcase.”…
mortimer says
Bravo! Hurrah! François Fillon has enunciated the obvious! France has placed itself in extreme danger by importing a Muslim population of now over 5 million. All of the Middle East and North Africa were at one time over 90% Christian and now they are close to extinction. The survival of the Copts of Egypt is one the great miracles of all time in the face of 1400 years of extreme persecution by supremacist Islam.
Are the French sleeping? Why do they keep electing politicians who make the Muslim problem worse?
The problem of Islamic jihadism cannot be cured by hiring more police! No, Muslims must be persuaded that the Koran is of human origin and they will abandon Islam and jihad immediately. To deprogram Muslims on a massive scale requires government agencies working at this in secret in a kind of anti-Islamic Manhattan Project. If governments will not undertake this project, governments should at least fund those willing to do it. In the reverse manner, Islamic governments are funding jihadist organizations to propagandize Western countries.
Fight fire with fire. Islam is very vulnerable intellectually and cannot be defended using an intellectual argument. No Muslim debater can successfully defend Islam against a well-versed kafir.
James Lincoln says
mortimer says,
“No Muslim debater can successfully defend Islam against a well-versed kafir.”
That is a true statement.
The problem is, very few Muslims will debate a “well-versed kafir…”
FYI says
Very few muslim apologists want to debate.. an Arabic speaking ex-muslim Atheist or Christian.
islamic apologists hide behind this Arabic nonsense,using it to fool non-muslims {and even Non-Arabic speaking muslims}
“Oh you couldn’t possibly understand koranic Arabic” they will say.
In many of these islamic “debates”,the islamic apologist,more often than not,does not himself know the language well enough.
At least twice I have seen these apologists in separate “debates” suggest to those on the other side of the debate{one an ex-muslim atheist,the other a Christian evangelist}that they don’t know Arabic,even offering to teach them Arabic{even though these islamic apologists themselves are not sufficiently fluent in the language!!}
Arabic speaking Ex-muslim atheists {or Christians etc}are the very people islamic apologists cannot fool and there are plenty now in the west who provide a valuable service in exposing the nonsense of hiding things in Arabic to fool the easily deceived about islam.
I don’t care if somebody leaves islam {to be an atheist,agnostic,humanist,Christian etc} but if they know Arabic and know where all the errors in the koran are,they are most useful..and welcome….
Rufolino says
What if Moslems don’t want to know that the Koran is of human origin ?
They aren’t ready to hear this and don’t want to hear this.
mortimer says
Reply to Rufolino: What if Muslims don’t want to hear that the Koran is of human origin … we keep telling them that and bring examples of human fingerprints on the Koran … such as its flat earth teaching.
gravenimage says
True, James, and FYI.
gravenimage says
Mortimer wrote:
The problem of Islamic jihadism cannot be cured by hiring more police! No, Muslims must be persuaded that the Koran is of human origin and they will abandon Islam and jihad immediately. To deprogram Muslims on a massive scale requires government agencies working at this in secret in a kind of anti-Islamic Manhattan Project.
……………….
Mortimer, how do Infidels secretly convince Muslims that Islam is false?
Reziac says
Glass Mecca (or at least the Kaaba and the Black Stone). That would be the ultimate demonstration that Allah has no power on Earth, since Allah is unable to defend his most holy place. And Islam depends on being able to demonstrate territorial control.
mortimer says
GI, I can see you take delight in twisting my words after you refuse to read them carefully. We are using all means to reach Muslims. Your journalistic talent would be helpful. You should start writing to Muslims as your audience to persuade them. You could be persuasive, but you choose not to be. Most counterjihad materials are written stealthily and often under a pseudonym due to the danger of jihadists and Leftists who wish us dead. It isn’t cute to make fun of those brave people who dedicate themselves to CJ. I encourage you to be sober and join this mighty task, rather than mocking it. Dozens of websites are deprogramming Muslims, and many youtube channels that show Muslims the human origin of Islam. We need many hundreds more, TV and radio discussions as well. Muslims should be able to run into CJ in every country and in all common languages of Muslims. This will take government funding or some billionaires to get the job running. When 1,000 ex-Muslims are deprogramming other Muslims, then it will reach a self-sustaining momentum. Islam will collapse under the continuous onslaught of factual information proving Islam is a hoax.
Muslims of today are responding to the voice of reason.
“We may insist as often as we like that man’s intellect is powerless in comparison to his instinctual life, and we may be right in this. Nevertheless, there is something peculiar about this weakness. The voice of the intellect is a soft one, but it will not rest until it has gained a hearing. Finally, after a countless succession of rebuffs, it succeeds.”
― Sigmund Freud
Savvy Kafir says
Mortimer — I think gravenimage considers your “mighty task” of attempting to talk Muslims out of their religion to be a colossal and foolish waste of time. I think she can be excused for her lack of enthusiasm for that project.
Carol the 1st says
That Freud quote is a welcome addition to your many additions, Mortimer. However, when you say this to GI –
“We are using all means to reach Muslims. Your journalistic talent would be helpful. You should start writing to Muslims as your audience to persuade them. You could be persuasive, but you choose not to be.”
– you overlook that her best placement is likely right here. Any muslims or anyone else can take their time and without any pressure watch and see on Jihad Watch the engagement of good, honest, and literate people (and how do you know how many ex-muslims that may result in??). When the occasional troublemaker shows up here, Graven Image (above most others) has the natural talent and widespread education to play whack-a-mole and knock them off this platform. That is a rarer talent. This site and people such as you and she have greatly encouraged me to take an interest in this phenomena and pitch in what I can. So there!
faraway says
“Are the french sleeping?” Most electors do not vote on a single issue.Socialists tend to want more free stuff.Politicians pander to islam to get the muslim block-vote.In France mayors give free leases on land to build mosques.A muslim activist stated unambiguously to one mayor:”one mosque=3 terms”.
Peter WF says
O’dear Mortimer,
“Muslims must be persuaded that the Koran is of human origin …”
Note that you are following chapter 4 (I think it is 4) where Dale Carnegie’s “How to Win Friends and Influence People” deals with changing someone’s mind.
You need to realise that by not accepting the hits from the following searches you are following the human nature problem similar to the left completely blind to evidence.
I have replied to you before with this info on the above topic. I had nothing to do with the hits you will get with the searches. All I did was ask questions –
You assume there is an intellect to argue with.
Search “world map average IQ”.
Search “world map marry first cousins”. Actually 1st cousins or closer.
Search “world map muslims”.
Search “muslim inbreeding”
Note the 2 smartest nations do not have a jihadi problem. One “retrains” them while locked up and the other doesn’t import muslims. There is no success from debating jihad. These 2 just “stick it up them”.
Let us assume 50% inbred, That means 3.3% of the population have 4 generations in a row of inbreeding. I suggest you go to Iran or similar as a “missionary for multiculturalism” and learn from the experience.
Perhaps have a look at this link. https://www.10news.one/what-are-the-effects-widespread-inbreeding-among-muslims/
Can you get me some evidence that debating jihad with a muslim works? In which case I will accept the following –
1) There are many muslims that are sticking their heads up and saying “no jihad” thanks. I know of 1. One is an exception not a rule. This person has to deal with many death threats from muslims. He has no problem with christians or hindus or …..
2) There are youtube videos or CNN or some news service (probably left leaning) ….. that show these debates and they work.
3) Anything that shows these dopes can think. You only have to look at the disasters of countries that muslims come from. What are their migration statistics for importing people? Who is choosing to live there?
You keep the line of “Muslims must be persuaded …” but from my perspective you CHOOSE to be blind to evidence.
To save my time next time I’ll keep the above in a text file for you.
mortimer says
Peter WF … have you tried reasoning with Muslims? No? Scared to try? I know about this topic from experience. Muslims are being talked out of Islam every day.
I can see you despise people who are different from you. That would be bigotry.
Savvy Kafir says
Mortimer — Since you’re so determined to save the world by “deprograming” Allah junkies, and so certain that will work, you just go right ahead with that project. Let us know how that works out. Meanwhile, the rest of us will devote our time, energy, and money to strategies and tactics that logic and common sense tell us have an actual chance of succeeding.
Peter WF says
Wonderful opinion but where is any evidence? If the opinion is the case why aren’t they copping it from muslims? Realise it is a muslim’s duty to kill a convert out of islam.
I suppose they could be honor killings.
I simply searched “in the koran where is it a duty to kill a convert out of islam” and found this – https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/religious-conversion-and-sharia-law
“I can see you despise people who are different from you.”
I despise people with appalling values. Muslims teach to kill infidels (search “The perfect man Indianapolis”).
Had an interesting talk with an Indian colleague. I said something similar to “I don’t have a problem with color – I have a problem with values and they don’t change when the person crosses a border”. And he volunteers – Migrated to my country because his farther was having too much trouble with a protection racket. His farther got severely beaten up for refusing to pay up.
I love the marketing terms used by government to promote their migration policy. Inclusion, multiculturalism etc. and how important it is to progress our society. None of this was important to land Americans on the moon and get back. Watch the docos and count the non whites (not the coffin bearers) on one hand. Sent some probes a long way since but man on the moon? When are we likely to see a muslim on the moon? This was such an outstanding achievement for 1969 that my daughter asked “Did they really land on the moon?”
Has anyone considered how predatory it is for the first world to import the 2nd and 3rd world’s skilled people?
Horyu says
Mortimer
There is a scene in the film Lawrence of Arabia in which the Omar Sharif character, against his better judgement, gets carried away by the emotion of the moment and joins in the slaughter of retreating a Turkish baggage train.
I think your view of human nature is overly rational and optimistic. We cheerfully do all kinds of things we know are wrong or not in our self-interest and Muslims are no different. Think smoking. Add to that the fact that historically in many cultures, and in Islamic culture still, strength and power have been not just admired for their own sake, but regarded as the true moral basis of social and political order. Think ‘might makes right’ and even the right of conquest. Add to that again the Islamic belief that the earth belongs to Allah and all advances by his armies are divinely sanctioned in a war with a foregone conclusion and you get a picture of the uselessness of reason in the present context.
There is only one way an onslaught by an advancing Islam on a retreating West can go, and every attempt to explain to Muslims how they’ve got it wrong will just be seen as more of the same weakness indicating a civilisation in decline and inviting conquest.
I wish it were otherwise.
Savvy Kafir says
Nicely put, Horyu! I heartily agree. Trying to reason with Muslims is utterly useless, and a waste of effort that should be devoted to resisting and defeating them.
Savvy Kafir says
Mortimer — Trying to convince Muslims of anything is a waste of time and energy. They despise us, our opinions, our logic, and our evidence.
We need to focus our efforts on educating non-Muslims about the threat that Islam poses, so that practical, effective measures can be taken to roll back the Islamic invasion of the West.
mortimer says
It would be nice if François Fillon could sit down and have a chat with the delusion Pope Francis and try to get him to see what Fillon well understands! Namely, that Islam is in a war for the destruction and eradication of Christianity
Michael Copeland says
“…I am convinced that …peace for all requires freedom of belief and freedom of conscience” – Fillon
Of course, freedom of conscience is not available in Islam.
Egyptian sheikh Yassir al-Burhani, when asked in an interview:
For example, is it the right of the Muslim to convert to Christianity or another religion?
“Of course this is not a right.”
https://gatesofvienna.net/2019/05/farages-fatal-flaw/
gravenimage says
+1
Jay says
Mortimer- great post. Thank you. And yes…..forever fraud Pope Francis is a wolf in sheep’s clothing!
I wish we could get him to retire immediately – like Pope Benedict was forced to do!
I pray the Christians under constant persecution will find peace and safety, God willing!
Mass Muslim immigration / invasion , without any acclimation, is a disaster waiting to happen!
France, England, Germany, Norway, Sweden, Italy, Greece, etc etc are all allowing the destruction of their sovereignty on a daily basis and refuse to recognize the damage! Merkel, Macron, etc should all
be replaced immediately! Poland and Hungary are two countries that recognize the threat and have
closed their borders. All soverign countries need closed protected borders ! The USA needs the wall!!
elee says
++++++++++++++++++++++++1 for all previous posts. France thats your coal mine where the canary is swooning. mi
Kesselman says
It’s for all to see, and now an impressive voice follows up, that Islam is on a warpath against civilization.
Muslims believe the Koran is the literal word of Allah, therefore sacrosanct in perfection, Eternally immutable, and 100% mandatory in compliance for all humans on Earth. Nobody is allowed to selectively adhere to some directives while dismissing others.
Terry says
This is reminiscent of the prophetic message written by Bob Dylan in his song With God On Our Side recorded in the 60’s during the height of the Viet Nam War. The lyrics is still available on line.
gravenimage says
Former French Prime Minister: “The fate of Eastern Christians and other minorities is the prelude to our own fate”
…………………
Prime Minister François Fillon is very perceptive here. Glad to see it–I just hope enough in France listen.
eduardo odraude says
Did not Brigitte Gabriel personally witness Lebanon, once majority Christian, become majority Muslim? And how are the Christians doing there now? Generally not well, I guess. No doubt their numbers continue to drop as they leave to escape the oppressive fate of minority believers in Muslim lands.
Jews it seems are starting to trickle out of Western Europe. Indeed, Christians and people of Christian background are also perhaps starting to leave, in numbers still small but nevertheless worrisome, some for Eastern Europe, some for the US or elsewhere. If some tipping point is reached and that trend accelerates in the next couple of decades, will Merkel and other criminally negligent fools presiding over the destruction of Europe ever face justice?
I still have hope for Islam’s defeat. I think the advance of technologies of communication, as well as other kinds of advancing tech, may fatally weaken Islam by exposing its origin from the mind of history’s falsest conman and cruelest tyrant, enslaver of numberless human souls.
gravenimage says
Fine post, Eduardo.
A belated ¡Feliz Navidad! to you!
Trick_or_Treat says
Beirut was once the ‘French Riviera’ of the Eastern Mediterranean – Paris is now becoming the Beirut of Europe for the very same reason.
Trick_or_Treat says
PS: …and London is now well and truly the ‘Gaza Strip’ of Europe.
gravenimage says
Grimly true, Trick_or_Treat.
Carol the 1st says
Brigitte Gabriel spent several years of her childhood terrified and scrounging in an underground bunker with her parents. She was told if they were discovered she was to run toward Israel. The Jews began to protect the area and one night they were rescued. Her experience with the Jewish hospital people opened her eyes to what wonderful people they were (Rubin Report has a good interview series with her). I believe she’s always believed America should strengthen it’s laws above all else as the first line of protection against Islam.
Trick_or_Treat says
Oh Mum, QUICK, run come see, here’s a politician who can actually add two and two together and is not afraid to publicly declare the correct answer!
Oh Lord, wonders will never cease.
Infidel says
Fillon would have had more credibility had he actually done something about it when he was prime minister to put the skids on Muslim immigration, no-go zones and all the other Islamic evils that today ail France. Had he done that, the average French person wouldn’t have been driven into the arms of the Le Pens. But he, his boss Sarkozy and others just pretended that there was nothing wrong w/ Muslims, w/ the result that France is what it is today.
For him to now say that the fate of Christians and other minorities in Muslim lands is the prelude to that of his countrymen is pretty rich! He is among those who allowed that issue to fester, so he needs to acknowledge that Marine Le Pen and her allies are the ones w/ the urgent solutions
gravenimage says
True, Infidel–but at this point I am glad to hear anything sane at any point from Western leaders.
Carol the 1st says
They probably would have called for a psychiatric evaluation – as they did for Marine LePen.
Pal says
“From the hammer of Charles Martel to the sword of Jan Sobieski, Christianity owed its safety in Europe to the fact that it was able to show that it could and would fight as well as the Mohammedan aggressor.”
“Wherever the Mohammedans have had complete sway, wherever the Christians have been unable to resist them by the sword, Christianity has ultimately disappeared.”
“Christianity is not the creed of Asia and Africa at this moment solely because the seventh century Christians of Asia and Africa had trained themselves not to fight, whereas the Moslems were trained to fight.”
Theodore Roosevelt, US 26th President, Fear God and Take Your Own Part, 1916
Carol the 1st says
Those Muslim Patrol ‘officers’ in Brooklyn are making with the martial arts (possibly with the assistance of the NYPD). Why are such sly and threatening people here? What we read in the media makes it pretty obvious that Islam plans to seep so gradually into the society that real lines in the sand and identities become blurred. Once that happens they’ll be entirely delighted to show whatever face they please to the underlings. We can hear the anticipatory belly laugh already.
Pal says
Correction needed, to François Fillon’s:
“.. the fate of Christian and other MAJORITIES TURNED minorities..by islam…” !
Syrian Syriacs
Egyptian Copts
Persian Zoroastrians
Iraq, Middle Eastern Nestorians, Melkites…
Western India (td. pakistan) Hinduists, Anglicans…
Eastern India (td. bangladesh) Hinduists & Buddhists & Catholics
Sogdia/na (td. afghanistan) Zoroastrianists & Buddhists & Nestorians
Byzantine Orthodoxes,
Asia Minor Gregorians, Assyrians…
. . . .
Infidel says
For Pakistan and Afghanistan, add Sikhs to the mix
Mike says
François Fillon was France ‘s prime minister under Nicolas Sarkozy . Sarkozy as France’s president is considered like a total puppet in globalist Bilderberg hands. But it seems he was not puppet enough , yet . So , he loose to the hands of François Hollande . But it seems Hollande too was not puppet enough . So m he had to leave the place to Emmanuel Macron , a Messiah !!!!!!Bilderbergs built him a false bio as a bank genius like they made a lawyer out of Hussein O. ( He was never find on the Bar ‘s list of lawyer of any state in USA . ) Like a false bio was made on Wiki for Greenberg now know as Zuckerberg . False bio was also done for Justin T. He never was a teacher in Vancouver . He was there to help student build their yearbook and other such activities . He was in the drama production of the year . Sometimes , he would give french lessons to students , on a voluntary basis and outside the officilal school schedule .
So , coming back to Fillon , how puppet was he ? I don’t know . I only know that while he was prime minister , he never had a real meeting alone with Sarkozy . The most he could get was a call once and a while telling him : ” Sign this , sign that , call this one , call that one , tell him this , tell her that .” That’s all. Fillon said it himself at the end of the term.
Campaigning for the french presidency , Fillon was strike out in the news by a scandal : he gave a job to his wife while prime mminister and she was paid for it .Though she did the job and was reasonably paid for , though dozen of others in the administration did more than that , it was enough to make him loose . A cheap shot that was kept for years and to be reveal when it would be useful . So , it help Macron .
Macron loves mass immigration , Macron loves islamic mass migration , Macron said he would like to use the Notre Dame cathedral fire to turn it out in a new , “modern ” muti -cult building useful to the nowaday civilisation ( i.e. muslim as well as christian ). Macron , a nobody with 12,000 $ each tailored suits from Montaigne street in Paris , paid by Rothschild ,is exactly what the Bilderbergs need and want .They paid him 50,000 coverage in glamour Paris -Match magazine , paid crowd in his political rallies , send him in already scripted interviews with journnalists paid by Rothschild etc…..Macron was never in a real press conference . He once said he could not meet journalists because his political philosophy was too complexe to be told on tv !!!!!!Wow !!! How dumb are we !!!!
Tony Naim says
As a member of this community of Christians Fillon refers to, I support his proposal to promote the application of freedom of belief and freedom of conscience in all countries of the Middle East .
However, I do not see how this practice can be implemented without first abolishing the laws of DHIMMITUDE Practically applied in all Muslim countries ?