Go ahead. Turkey is not a reliable ally of the United States whether this base stays open or not. What’s the use of prolonging the inevitable?
“Turkey could close Incirlik air base in face of U.S. threats: Erdogan,” Reuters, December 15, 2019:
ISTANBUL (Reuters) – Turkey could shut down its Incirlik air base, which hosts U.S. nuclear warheads, in response to threats of U.S. sanctions and a separate U.S. Senate resolution that recognized mass killings of Armenians a century ago as genocide, President Tayyip Erdogan said on Sunday.
“If it is necessary for us to take such a step, of course we have the authority … If this is necessary, together with our delegations, we will close down Incirlik if necessary,” Erdogan said on A Haber TV….
Turkey condemned the U.S. Senate measure last week. Erdogan suggested on Sunday that Turkey could also respond with parliamentary resolutions recognizing the killings of indigenous Americans in past centuries as genocide.
barbaracvm1 says
Relocate the bass. I am tried of the threats. How much will the off bass income bring down the local economy.
Jule Bacal says
I would like to see the base moved to Golan Heights IF THEY WOULD HAVE US and if we would not try to tell Israel what to do.
awake says
The timing of the resolutions, in both houses, was curious to say the least. Like almost everything in US politics these days, it is all intended to hurt and weaken President Trump.
That Turkey, under the reign of Erdogan, is still unfortunately a NATO ally is an understatement to say the least.
Infidel says
This is a case where they accidentally did the right thing, even if it was for the reason of embarrassing President Trump. It’s like overriding President Obama’s veto of the anti-Saudi resolution in 2015/6. While the impeachment game is bull ?, embarrassing Ankara by recognizing the Armenian Genocide was a move that was long overdue.
The US should recognize that it has no long term Muslim allies, no matter what DC might think of those alliances today. In 1978, the US probably thought that they had a long term ally in Iran. In the 1980s, they thought the same thing of Pakistan, when they were arming them to the teeth to back the Jihadists in Afghanistan, while Pakistan used that to reinforce their posture against India. Throughout the Cold War, they thought about Turkey as an ally. But even in 2003, Turkey refused to let the US use Incirlik to attack Iraq: I’d like to see someone from the State Department explain why are they still considered an ally after that. Similarly, a member of the al Thani family of Qatar once was on a hunting expedition w/ Osama, which is why the CIA desisted from striking. And this is the country we consider so important an ally that CENTCOM is based in their country.
Our only long term Middle Eastern ally is Israel: if the US doesn’t want to use that, we could use Cyprus (although Northern Cyprus is still under Turkish occupation, and could be a launching pad for an attack on US forces there). We should close Incirlik and move both that, as well as CENTCOM headquarters to Israel. Do that, and stop worrying about the stability of any of those Muslim countries. Let them all battle each other for who is the real leader of the ummah
SAFI says
He’ll likely also threaten to seize the nukes. Back in 1974 the US imposed an arms embargo on Turkey over its invasion of the Republic of Cyprus. The Turks retaliated by shutting down Incirlik and expelling all American militery personel from there while keeping the nukes hostage. Eventually after almost four years the US succumbed to the Turkish pressure/blackmail and lifted the embargo.
SAFI says
*military
SAFI says
By the way the Turks still have a full embargo on Cyprus even though opening their ports and airports to Cyprus was one of the conditions that Turkey signed on in order to join the EU’s customs unions.
Oh and Turkey together with Azerbaijan imposed a full embargo on Armenia in the 90s and early 2000s (not sure if it goes on to this day but I wouldn’t be surprised)
Infidel says
That is why our withdrawal from Syria is a good thing: once we are out, the rivalry b/w Armenia and Azerbaijan over Nagorno-Karabakh and anything else will spill over into a split b/w Russia (for whom Armenia is a client state) and Azerbaijan (which is a Turkic Council pal of Turkey). That Putin-Erdogan alliance of convenience that we currently see will be gone
Dwayne Austin says
I was station at Incirlik 1974-1975 as US Air Force Security Police. I can tell you absolutely that military personnel were NOT expelled. Incirlik not being a NATO base, all American fighter planes returned to their home base at Torrejón Air Base, Spain just before the Turk attack on Cyprus. The aircraft were always assigned to Incirlik as 90-day TDY. The Turks gave the Greeks two weeks to leave Cyprus before attacking.
The nukes would not have done the Turks any good if they got their hands on them. First a code had to be entered to arm them. Even if the Turks got the code, the critical component from all nukes had been removed from the bombs and flown out on a C-141 cargo plane at 3:00 am just before the two-week deadline was up. EOD had a pallet of C4 and DET cord and was prepared to to blow the bomb casings in their storage bunkers.
The Turkish attack began at 6:00 am and I was there just finishing a midnight shift and taking pictures of the entire event.
CogitoErgoSum says
I don’t see any reason to have nukes based at Incirlic … unless they are to be used against the Turks.
gravenimage says
Thanks for that background, Dwayne.
James Lincoln says
+1
SAFI says
Thanks. I may be wrong however Wikipedia says this in the Incirlik Air Base Article
“Embargo
In mid-1975, the Turkish government announced that all U.S. military bases in Turkey would be closed and transferred to the Turkish Air Force. This action was in response to an arms embargo that the United States Congress imposed on Turkey for using American-supplied equipment during the Turkish invasion of Cyprus in 1974. Only Incirlik Air Base and İzmir Air Base remained open due to their NATO responsibilities, but all non-NATO activities at these locations were suspended.
After Congress lifted the embargo in September 1978, and also restored military and naval assistance to Turkey, normal operations resumed in Turkey,”
I’m a bit curious about the “Turks gave the Greeks two weeks to leave Cyprus before attacking” part of what you wrote.
To my knowledge the Turks gave no warning whatsoever prior to the initial assault which began only a couple days after the Cypriot National Guard staged a coup against the President. But if I remember correctly there was a couple of weeks “pause” after the first turkish landings for negotiations or something, before the second phase of the attack began. Prerhaps this is what you’re referring to.
D Austin says
Most of the officers of the Cypriot National Guard were Greek regulars who supported the overthrow of President Makarios. led by Greek generals, who had just arrived in Cyprus to lead them. Makarios evaded arrest and turned up at the UN to complain about the Greek military led junta. The Greeks and Turks hated each other prior to Cyprus. Just saying the work Greek in a crowd of Turks cased them to stop talking and listen to what you were saying.
The two week demand to restore Makarios was used by the Turks to move F-100 fighters loaded with napalm after arrival at Incirlick and C-47 cargo planes used to drop paratroopers. Those assets were not already based at Incirlick. The Turks love napalm. Cyprus is about 60 air miles from Incirlick and we could see the orange glow in the sky from the napalm fires the first couple of nights. The Turk fighters planes used the runway and the taxi ways to land and take off in order to maximize their bombing during the day. For the first week Incirlick was in blackout conditions at night because they thought Greece might try to attack the base at night by air. Which would be hard to do considering Greece didn’t have air refueling capability at that time.
During the conflict, a USAF Security Police dog handler hung a Greek flag out of his barracks window one day. The Turkish base commander was mad a hell and threatened to search the barracks and seize the flag. The American base commander talked him out of it. Everyone got a stern speech about not pissing off the Turks.
The pause you are talking about is probably when the Turks secured the north half of Cyprus for Turks and the south half for Greek Cypriot.
About halfway through that two-week waiting period, I had just finished a midnight shift, tired as hell, when we were told we were practicing for a deployment exercise, since we still had our weapons. Later we found out that we were within five minutes of being deployed to southern Cyprus to guard the dismantling of a US Government radio monitoring station. We were never told why it was called off.
SAFI says
Thanks a lot for sharing your experiences.
No I was referring to the “ceasefire” period between the turkish “Attila-1” and “Attila-2” offensives. Both the coup in Cyprus and the military dictatorship in Athens had collapsed just 3 days after the first turkish wave.
But it was the second offensive which began 2-3 weeks later that allowed the Turks to occupy half the island (including the northern half of the capital.) The UN peacekeeping troops had arrived in Cyprus before the second turkish offensive began.
Infidel says
That code requirement that you mention is not just true for the Americans, but also the Russians. Which is why in 1992, when Ukraine became independent, they demanded the removal of all nukes from their territory. It’s not b’cos they were humanitarians who hated nukes: it was b’cos the codes passed from the Soviet military to the newly branded Russian military, and remained in the Kremlin: didn’t pass on to Kyiv. So Ukraine decided not to be a military base for the Russians against anyone. Kazakhstan too asked Russia to withdraw their nukes.
The US should close down Incirlik and remove all weapons, including nukes, and give Erdogan no choice in this matter. If he wants a shooting war against the US, let him try. A few long range ballistic missiles aimed at Ankara and Istanbul should straighten him out
nicu says
Turkish Adolf threatens and demands AGAIN – that’s the way we know his people here in Germany .
Quazgaa says
Any germans left in germany, nicule??
elee says
Hasnt he yammered himself into inaudibility yet? What more will it take? Oh right, hes going to be Caliph by 2023 and levy jizya on us….. s 9
Walter Sieruk says
That character, Recep Erdogan must hate the Armenian people and likewise he must detest the United States of America and is looking for an excuse to take action against America for the US recognition of the Armenian people by the Turkish forces of Islam and the possibility of US sanctions against Turkey
As this fits with the old saying which is “Evil is always looking for an excuse.”
Before all this Erdogan , had also declared “Whoever is on the side of Israel ,let everyone know that we are against them.” This then by those words “against them.” Likewise must mean against him of her ,as an individual, who for the State of Israel
This must thus mean that they are also against Him. Who is God for being on the side of the Israel for being for Jewish State of Israel. As it is written in the Bible, “For the Lord has chosen Jacob for Himself, Israel for His special treasure.” Psalm 135:4. [N.K.J.V.]
Furthermore, the Jewish people have every right to all of that land that in now part of Israel, , including the West Bank and the Golan Heights by Divine Right. As seen, for example, in Genesis 28:13-15. 35:48, 49. Psalms 105:7-11. 135:4.
In addition the Jewish people should also have that land by historic rights. As found in First Kings 4:20,21,24,25. 8:55,56.
Moreover Erdogan must then also be against President Trump This is because President Trump had wisely said “It’s time to officially recognize [the reality of] Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.” Yes, indeed, it’s very much time to recognize Jerusalem as the capital city of the State of Israel, and he then acted on his word and he had done so by good decision of moving the US Embassy to Jerusalem .This bold and wise decision of President Trump to move the US embassy to Jerusalem has greatly offended many of the Muslim clerics . Be they, for example, the imams of Pakistan or the mullahs of Iran. Those Muslim clerics with their mind control and their unconscionable ways they manipulate the people from the mosques to be their stooges into a, violent uprising, because of the President’s decision is despicable . Some people of the left will say that the decision of move the US embassy to Jerusalem is “provoking” and it will “incite violence.” This only shows the old saying to be true .Which is that “Evil is always looking for an excuse. “ The fact is President Trump made the right decision and if the Muslim clerics don’t happen to like it ,well then it’s “tough beans.” to them
As the Bible informs its readers “The Lord also shall roar out of Zion, and utter His voice from Jerusalem … the Lord will be the hope of His people ,and the strength of the children of Israel.” Joel 3:16.
Dwayne Austin says
I was stationed at Incirlik Common Defense Installation,Turkey 1974-1975. It was a joint American/Turkish airbase. Being the largest American airbase in Turkey, it was not a NATO base when I was station there. And, knowing the Turks, probably still isn’t. The Turks could give three days notice to get out of Turkey at any time.
When Greece tried to overthrow the government of Cyprus in 1974, the Turks napalmed the hell out of Cyprus from Incirlik using old F-100 fighters. All American aircraft returned to their home base at Torrejón Air Base, Spain, but we all got to stay and watch. Incirlik not being a NATO base, fighter squadrons were assigned for 90-days at a time.
Keys says
Thanks for serving in the US military, Dwayne Austin.
I have thought for several years that we should not have nuclear weapons in Turkey. Now that Muslim fanatic Erdogan is in near total power, I am more convinced than ever that we must get them out. Why are they there now anyway since the fall of the USSR !
We have about 5,000 military men and women at Incirlik and “(t)actical nuclear weapons are stored at the base. Among them are “up to” 50 B61 nuclear bombs” according to Wikipedia’s documentation. There are also many Turkish military on base.
How in hell could 5,000 US military protect the nukes, if Erdogan secretly amassed an overwhelming outside attack force, and coordinated an attack with his inside-the-base military ?
Of course, Erdogan knows such a thing would be devastating for Turkey in many ways, but he’s nuts !
Battle says
Erdogan should be working to convince the Council to return the Saint Savoir Luke Church back to the Christians.
gravenimage says
Don’t hold your breath, Battle.
Cyprus not Turkey says
Liase with the Republic of Cyprus to relocate the Incirlik from Turkey to Cyprus. Not quite the same range to Syria and Lebanon. But close.
Infidel says
Incirlik is in the western part of the Anatolian peninsula – nowhere closer to Syria or Lebanon than Cypurs is. It could have been an argument if it had been located near, say, Gaziantep or Hatay.
However, North Cyprus is still under Turkish occupation, so I’m not sure about how viable a base in Cyprus would be. I’d say move both CENTCOM and this base to Israel, and put this base under CENTCOM command
gravenimage says
Turkey: Erdogan threatens to close US air base in revenge for sanctions threat and recognition of Armenian genocide
…………………..
Note that Erdogan is threatening us for daring to expose Muslim savagery.
We should dismantle Incirlik and remove all weaponry, including nukes. Let’s just pull out–Turkey is no ally of ours. They should be kicked out of NATO, as well. Having local bases is much less an issue than it used to be, with longer-range craft..
James Lincoln says
gravenimage,
You are correct on all points. Very well stated…
gravenimage says
Thank you, James.
SAFI says
I was thinking what the turkish regime’s response might be if the Pentagon tried to pull those nukes out of there. In fact I wonder whether that might have already happened behind the scenes but was rejected by Erdogan.
Infidel says
If the US tells Turkey that we’re totally removing all personnel and hardware from Incirlik, what can Turkey militarily do to stop that?
SAFI says
I’m not sure Infidel. Probably nothing unless they want to risk going to war with America. But then again it’s freaking Erdogan and he now feels extra invincible with the S-400s guarding his airspace. His ablility to blackmail (especially NATO) has been upgraded.
In any case it seems that Erdogan is making preparations for the possibility of a future military confrontation with the West. I think that’s why a couple years ago he had his gold reserves pulled out of the US where they were previously being kept.
J D.S says
Yes we need to pull out of Turkey take all Nukes out along with all rapporteurs a stern warning that should they continue their rampage we just might return the nukes.
J D.S says
rapporteur?????? Should be weaponry
Transmaster says
Trump has a golden opportunity to send Erdogan into a desk pounding, screaming, yowling, “terrible two’s” temper tantrum. Lets relocate our airbase to one of 2 existing airbases located in Kurdistan. There is K-1, Kaywan in Kirkuk Provence, the other is unnamed but located in the Kurdish controlled oil fields in Northern Iraq.
seabird says
For those who haven’t read the Armenian Genocide Resolution (S.Res.150) which was unanimously passed by Congress and the Senate, it includes the following; “providing relief to the survivors of the campaign of genocide against Armenians, Greeks, Assyrians, Chaldeans, Syriacs, Arameans, Maronites and other Christians.”
A great victory against the forces of Jihad.
Today, the Whitehouse and State Dept. disavowed the Resolution in a clear capitulation to Turkey after nearly 60 years of lobbying efforts by thousands of people, recognition by 28 other countries, the Vatican, 49 US States and the US Congress and Senate.
The Resolution was a bipartisan effort co-sponsored in the Senate by Republican Senator Ted Cruz.
The Bill was obstructed under direct orders from Pres.Trump three times by other Republicans and even VP Mike Pence’s brother-but they failed to stop it.
They rejected a resolution bringing some measure of justice to the Christian survivors of the genocide victims while claiming to be Christians.
As someone who voted for Trump, I am very disappointed in him for supporting Turkey and other jihadist States like Saudi Arabia.
If you’re looking for a Republican who is honest, ethical and principled, that would clearly be Senator Cruz.
Infidel says
I think that what President Trump wants is to withdraw all US troops from not just Afghanistan, but also Syria and the greater Middle East. It would be harder for him to justify it if Turkey is branded as an adversary.
But I’m fine w/ all US troops being pulled out, and letting Turkey get into an influence war w/ Saudi Arabia. It will be fun to watch, w/ Iran’s Shia Crescent from Teheran to Beirut being caught in b/w
seabird says
I’m not so sure, he’s said many times that he wanted to bring our troops home from the “endless wars” in the ME and Afghanistan but one article claims (and I haven’t confirmed it) that since taking office he has sent 14,000 troops there.
In Syria, he pulled most of our troops out of the Kurdish zone (abandoning our Kurdish allies to Turkish attack)
claiming they were going to be deployed in Iraq (which didn’t want them), then sent troops to SArabia then deployed more troops back to Syria to protect oil fields we have absolutely no right to claim or occupy.
He said he would release the 28 pages of the 9-11 Report if elected but evidently we will never see those documents under his administration.
And then he obstructed S.Res.150 as I mentioned before to appease the Turks.
Today, a JPost article claims Turkey has now given Hamas
sanctuary in Turkey to plan attacks against Israel.
Does this sound like sound US foreign policy to you?
(I always enjoy reading your
interesting and informative comments).
Infidel says
seabird, one thing about President Trump is that every move of his is transactional. W/ his predecessors, any policy move would telegraph a long term policy that was being set. Not so much here. Like things started badly w/ North Korea, then there were the talks and the love letters, and now, the US is just playing a waiting game until more substantial movement is there on Pyongyang’s part. Similarly, just b’cos the US is currently humoring Ankara doesn’t mean that Turkey is being considered a long term ally.
There is also the State Department as well as the congressional foreign policy establishment that’s typically opposed to Trump’s moves, particularly on Russia but also on subjects like North Korea. So he could also be feigning a friendship w/ Erdogan to provoke them all to attack Ankara, so that that ends up being US policy on Turkey
P.S. Thanks for the compliment
Clifford Fodor says
Kick Turkey out of NATO and bring Israel in.
Transmaster says
That is exactly what Putin wants. His goal is to breakup NATO
SAFI says
Certainly. But the next best thing for Putin would to keep Turkey (and other states that are friendly to Russia like Hungary) in NATO so he can influence and paralyze the alliance through them. Like we recently saw at the NATO summit in London where Turkey threatened to block NATO’s plan for increased military aid to the Baltic members.
SAFI says
it’s also a good way for Putin to dodge sanctions
Infidel says
Offer NATO membership to Moscow, and then we won’t have to berate our ‘allies’ for not ponying up their 2% or 4% or whatever it is that we want them to spend. I believe Russia spends a lot more than 2% of GDP on their defense, and if they are added, we have a front against China. And Turkey.
What we need to do is pull Russia out of China’s influence
mortimer says
The US should move all its military assets to Kurdistan and declare that Kurdistan is independent.
Scott Carlson says
If this didn’t make it obvious what ideology was responsible for the Armenian genocide you must be blind as a bat. You can even look it up on google under “Armenian genocide Sultan”
SAFI says
It was (pan)islamism. AKA ISLAM
David Kavanagh says
There is also the question of how valuable the Alliance is to Turkey. Would we regard an attack on Turkey as an attack on us all? I can’t help thinking that I would be more likely to side with the ‘agressor’.
Infidel says
Especially if one considers that Turkey is a part of NATO but Israel ain’t. What if Turkey launches an attack on Israel and Jerusalem retaliates: does that invoke Article 5? (It would under a President Sanders or a President Warren)
Infidel says
Well, in the 90s, I’m sure many of us probably supported the Serbs against first Bosnia, and later Kosovo. Didn’t mean much: our military had to take on the Serbs, fighting for the territorial expansion of Islam. As long as Turkey is in NATO, I fear that the US won’t take on them.
OLD GUY says
Closing the air base will hurt Turkey more than us. If Erdogan closes our air base we should take steps to remove Turkey from NATO and place them on the terrorist list as that seems to be the direction they are heading. If we pull out we should destroy that air base along with all other military infrastructure and equipment that we can not remove.
Dr. Doom says
Shut it down and get the H out of Turkey.
infidel says
This is a bonafide jehaadi thug..who revels in threatening and intimidating the Khafir.. A hole between his two hyena eyes is what this creature needs..