No kidding, really? I’ve been pointing out for years that deradicalization programs are an abysmal failure everywhere they have been implemented. From the Jihad Watch archives:
Gitmo prisoner reveals: Saudi “deradicalization program” is really a jihad training program
11 ex-Gitmo prisoners flee the Saudi “rehabilitation program” and join up with terrorist groups
Jaw-dropper: 25 former Gitmo detainees “return to militancy” despite Saudi rehab program!
Flight 253 jihadist wasn’t cured by Saudi anti-jihad art therapy
Former Guantanamo detainee now top al-Qaeda ideologue — “He was transferred to Saudi Arabia in 2006 where he was placed in a national rehabilitation project.”
Indonesian government admits that its jihadist rehab program is a failure
Malaysia: Muslim cleric active in deradicalization program promotes hatred of non-Muslims
France’s only jihadi “deradicalization” center is closing — it was voluntary, and it was empty
The whole premise of “deradicalization” is that Islam is a religion of peace that jihadis misunderstand, twist, and hijack. Since that is a false premise, and warfare against unbelievers is actually taught in the Qur’an and Sunnah, “deradicalization” focuses on other issues, such as “anger issues” that the jihadi may have, his feelings of “alienation,” and the like.
But since none of that changes what the Qur’an and Sunnah say about warfare against unbelievers, it doesn’t “deradicalize” the jihadi at all.
“Psychologist behind Britain’s terrorist deradicalisation scheme says there is NO guarantee offenders can ever be ‘CURED’ or pose no threat to society,” by Henry Martin, Mailonline, January 2, 2020 (thanks to The Religion of Peace):
Deradicalisation programmes are not guaranteed to ‘cure’ those who undergo them, the psychologist behind the UK’s main such scheme has said.
Christopher Dean said some offenders who take part in his Healthy Identity Intervention scheme regress afterwards due to complex reasons such as who they mix with.
Mr Dean said some offenders he worked with needed 20 or more sessions to show signs of positive change – and there is still no guarantee of success.
Speaking on BBC Radio 4’s Today programme on Thursday, Mr Dean said: ‘I think we have to be very careful about ever saying that somebody no longer presents a risk of committing an offence. I don’t think you can ever be sure.
‘We have to be very careful about saying someone has totally changed or has been cured.’
London Bridge killer Usman Khan attended a deradicalisation programme after being released on licence.
Khan was a convicted terrorist who had been a member of an al Qaida-inspired group that plotted to blow up the London Stock Exchange.
The 28-year-old killed two people and injured three others in a knife rampage before being shot dead by police in November.
He had been released from prison on licence in December 2018, by which time Khan reportedly appeared to be responding to rehabilitation.
And last month it was reported that Fusilier Lee Rigby’s killer Michael Adebolajo is part of a deradicalisation programme in the jail where Khan was an inmate.
Adebolajo, 34, is acting as an unofficial mentor to inmates at HMP Woodhill in Buckinghamshire, from which Khan was released in December last year, according to The Sun on Sunday.
He is serving a life sentence for the horrific murder of Drummer Rigby in 2013.
Adebolajo was reported to have renounced extremism last year and apologised to the soldier’s family, claiming he had been ‘brainwashed’ and ‘misinterpreted the Koran’….
keya says
It is the Koran and the jihadi verses. When will they get it! I hate Mo (piss be upon him)
omensgate says
It is a failure because instead of doing what we are supposed to do, preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ to them, we give them brand new korans, plot their prayer times and direction to Mecca with extreme precision, and altogether verify their commitment to their false god. We didn’t give brand new copies of “Mein Kampf” to German prisoners in WWII; were we more knowledgeable then?
Donovan Nuera says
Exactomundo!!!
I have made the same argument since 2001. Lot of deaf eared idiots in positions of authority out there. Grrrr.
owensgate says
It is a failure because instead of doing what we are supposed to do, preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ to them, we give them brand new korans, plot their prayer times and direction to Mecca with extreme precision, and altogether verify their commitment to their false god. We didn’t give brand new copies of “Mein Kampf” to German prisoners in WWII; were we more knowledgeable then?
mortimer says
Some valid points from owensgate: “We didn’t give brand new copies of “Mein Kampf” to German prisoners”.
The Koran is a troop motivator similar to Mein Kampf in its intention. Both books are intended to create paranoia and hatred.
gravenimage says
This is true, Owensgate and Mortimer.
Krishna says
Want to cure just let go their beliefs by critising Islam In prisons
Infidel says
The way to cure is to force them to apostatize from Islam under pain of being waterboarded or worse. But this would never be even tried, since everybody thinks that Islam, being a religion, deserves a protected status, as Terry Gain points out
mortimer says
That is idiotic. Thousands of Muslims are abandoning Islam every day, because they realize it is false. This is being done by independent deprogrammers who work on the internet without government support. They would be more effective with funding to increase the quality of their videos. A well-designed series of videos will convince many more Muslims that Islam is a hoax started by Abd al Malik. Look him up before you start typing.
Infidel says
Actual evidence of this happening will be welcome. As for Abd al Malik, I looked him up, and got a list – the 5th Umayyad caliph, a Congo born French rapper and some other rulers by that name.
I’ve seen claims before from the likes of Ali Sina that Islam is losing followers every day. Much of it is really wishful thinking, and just like Twitter doesn’t reflect ground reality, similarly, testimonials that Ali Sina gets from ex-Muslims don’t reflect ground reality as well. Online, people tend to gravitate towards people and causes that they like, and the popularity of a cause online doesn’t necessarily translate to votes on the ground
J_not_a says
Your “reprogramming” fantasy is just that – a fantasy. The only hope is that muslims convert to Christianity.
gravenimage says
Mortimer, I note that you have never once said how many Muslims you yourself have deprogrammed at this point. One would assume the numbers must be pretty impressive…
Trick_or_Treat says
“No guarantee that jihadis can ever be cured”
_____________________________________
Yes there is, and it’s an awesome and comforting machine. Cure is instantaneous, and permanence is guaranteed – no relapses.
Ade Fegan says
and it’s kinder when the sponge is wet
Michael Copeland says
Here is the UK Government’s definition of “radicalisation”: it is the
“process by which a person comes to support terrorism…..” that is, acts of violence committed in a cause, usually political.
Islam, however, as Robert Spencer points out, MANDATES violence towards non-muslims.
Erdogan. President of Turkey, told his listeners:
““Our God commands us to be violent towards the kuffar (infidels). Who are we? The ummah [nation] of Mohammed. So [God] also commands us to be merciful to each other. And we will be violent to the kuffar.”
Erdogan 25 Oct 2019
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/24727
Does Erdogan need “deradicalisation” classes?
Or is the whole taxpayer-funded enterprise wrong-headed?
Ade Fegan says
no shit sherlock !
Roland says
The only effective cure is to deprogram the jihadi of Islam and substitute a more peaceful belief system.
Emilie Green says
The Islamic brain “branding” is done early in life. For most, the damage is irreversible to the point that doing Islamic things – the instantaneous flash to anger; the resort to violence to solve social problems; the cursing of others; and so forth – is the default setting.
Michael Copeland says
The teachings of Islam instruct radicalisation:
You must instil fear and terror in enemies.
You must kill enemies.
You are soldiers in a righteous army.
https://gatesofvienna.net/2018/01/instructing-radicalisation/
Martel Sobieski says
THE ONLY HOPE OF CHANGING THEIR MINDS IS TO SHOW THEM THAT ISLAM IS FALSE, THAT MUHAMMAD LIED, THAT HE WAS A HYPOCRITE, THAT HE CHANGED HIS PRONOUNCEMENTS DEPENDING ON THE NEED OF THE MOMENT. SHOW THEM THE NUMEROUS MISTAKES IN THE KORAN. SHOW THEM WHERE KORAN COPIED FROM TALMUD, WHICH IS A HUMAN BOOK, NOT DIVINE. ANY TRUE DE-RADICALIZATION HAS TO BE TOTAL DE-ISLAMIZATION, OR DISCREDITING MUHAMMAD. ANYTHING LESS WILL NEVER WORK.
mortimer says
Christopher Dean will find only one ‘CURE’ for Islam … that is to convince Muslims that the Koran is of human origin.
When Muslims see that the Koran is a human product, they do not return to Islam.
That realization ‘cures’ Muslims of their delusion instantly.
Carol the 1st says
But surely they don’t leave beloved and constructive Allah behind, do they? How do they ‘restructure’ his profile (and their lives and identities) once that deceitful little instruction book is deflated?? It sounds like a very difficult task indeed. I hope we’re not required to ‘feel’ for them.
gravenimage says
Mortimer, how many Muslims have you yourself deprogrammed at this point? It must be a large number, I should think–but you have never said.
mortimer says
Here is the problem … quote: “Adebolajo was reported to have renounced extremism last year and apologised to the soldier’s family, claiming he had been ‘brainwashed’ and ‘misinterpreted the Koran’”
Adebolajo had NOT misinterpreted the Koran. He knows that and he is lying about it.
Adebolajo interpreted the jihad doctrine according to the Salafist teaching of Anjem Choudary … that is: the official religious doctrine of Saudi Arabia … Salafist-Wahhabism.
gravenimage says
Actually, he just interpreted Jihad according to Islam.
“Salafism” and “Wahhabism are not actually different from Islam.
mortimer says
Danish psychologist Nicolai Sennels should be hired to help develop a valid protocol that will deprogram Muslims right out of Islam.
Kesselman says
Absolutely, Nicolai Sennels is one of the foremost experts in the psyche of the mozzies. I know him personally and his piece, in cooperation with psychologist Kjeld Hesselmann, about young Moslems psychology is a sound antidote to prevalent orthodoxy. Unfortunately, this edition is in Swedish: https://snaphanen.dk/2013/06/10/ett-psykologiskt-perspektiv-pa-islam/#more-155530
gravenimage says
I don’t believe that Nicolai Sennels has even said that he “deprograms” Muslims. Citations?
Carol the 1st says
His protocol may not be what you have in mind, Mortimer. Looking on Youtube for any videos of Sennels, I found this 1:31 minute video with our Robert Spencer (who also turns out to be pleasantly surprised by Mr. Sennels). What he has to say is relevant to the Iran vs Trump disputes going on:
Danish psychologist: Israel is Right in Responding Strongly to Violent Islam
Carol the 1st says
And the short one below is from 2015 (Obama years).
First poster makes good comments:
hrvad:It’s rather amazing that so few psychologists (are there any besides Nicolai?) come out and say something in this debate. The fruits to pick are so low-hanging that it borders on intellectual dishonesty not to notice them. I had one semester in economics on psychology and easily picked up the theory of locus on control, which is absolutely applicable to analyzing the mindset that Islam fosters. Psychologists should also try to explain Group Polarization as a mechanism for radicalization. It’s easily understood and can be picked up by anyone.
On a deeper level our secular culture has developed a bit of an aversion to typical Christian values that put a distance to anger. Many such values are perceived as being “some dude telling me to” (like “don’t hit Jimmy”), when in fact it’s also about something else. It’s also about the fact that a human’s OWN wellbeing is seriously threatened by feeling anger all the time. Maybe some of this will be clearer when some of the studies of Buddhist ex-prisoners become more widely known. In those studies it was discovered that Buddist monks who had been unjustly imprisoned and often tortured showed a remarkable lack of PTSD (refer to Harvard professor Ronald D. Siegel). Speculative: could such findings perhaps even explain why all manner of small insults balloon so much?
Title: How Islam Creates Terrorists
ronald says
Deradicalisation is no possible….Inspiring verses for suicide bombers / jihadists
Quran (4:74) – “Let those who fight for Allah sell the present life for the hereafter. And whoever is killed or wins in the battle [against unbelief], we will give him a great reward. ”
Quran [4:95]. Believers who do nothing, with the exception of the incapacitated, are not equal to those who fight with their possessions and lives for the sake of Allah. Allah has made those who struggle excel with a great reward over the home-seekers.
Quran (9: 111) – “Allah has bought their lives and possessions from believers because there is paradise for them [in exchange]. They fight for Allah [against unbelief] so that they kill and are killed on earth. Look forward to the deal you have made with Him. It is the highest victory. ”
Quran 22:58 Those who leave their homes for the sake of Allah, and then are killed or die, surely Allah will provide them with a good provision. And surely Allah is the Best of Providers
Quran 3: 157 And if you are killed in the fight against unbelief – then forgiveness and mercy are better than all they collect [in this world].
Quran (2: 207) – “And there are believers who give their lives [in the fight against unbelief] to earn the pleasure of Allah, and Allah is gentle to His devotees.”
Quran [3: 169] And do not think of those who have been killed in the Way of Allah [fight against unbelief] that they have died. They live with their Lord, they are provided “.
Quran (61: 10-12)! “You who believe, I will point out a” promise “so that you will escape a painful punishment [in hell]; that when you fight [against unbelief] for Allah with your riches and your life [as a stake], He will forgive your sins and He will lead you into eternal gardens with flowing rivers and beautiful mansions. It is the greatest achievement. ”
Quran [9:20] Those who believe and leave their homes and fight for their cause and life for the cause of Allah, have the highest rank in heaven in the sight of Allah.
Quran [4:77] Fight for Allah, the enjoyment of earthly life is low.
Quran [6:32] Worldly life is only a game and vain entertainment.
Quran 3: 157 And if you are killed or die for Islam, Allah’s forgiveness and grace are far better than anything they could gather on earth.
Carol the 1st says
Quran [6:32] Worldly life is only a game and vain entertainment
Allah is such a sport! – he openly laughs at those spinning his rodent wheel but many still can’t clear their minds and give it a rest. And they say there’s no humor in Islam!
Walter Sieruk says
Let’s not be naive and think that “ deradicaization program” done with a psychologist or any other educated person would impress and thus cause a jihad-minded Islamic terrorist to no amount of counseling will straighten them out.
As the philosopher, Emmanuel Kant wrote “Out of the crooked timber of humanity no straight thing can be made.” Likewise, the Ancient Greek playwright, Aristophanes, had also written “Even the wisest of the wise can never make a crab walk straight.”
Tom says
The one that most describes the situation of the west and Islam was coined by Ashin Wirathu, a Buddhist monk when he said “You can be full of love and kindness, but you still cannot sleep next to a mad dog.”
gravenimage says
Walter, not all humans–or all human ideologies–are equally bad, whatever you might believe.
ronald says
Better is deradicalize islam, hadith, and quran. if not possible, forbid this grazy rabid religion
Kesselman says
I’m a bit hesistant about this, but the only cure seems to be that of the psychopaths: avoid them or make them harmless phsysically. Evidence shows us that there’s no middle road.—That must be the reason behind President Trump’s elimination of Qassam Solimani. Evil one has to do away with.
gravenimage says
We were a lot safer when Islam was largely kept isolated from the civilized world.
sidney penny says
After the guilty verdict
Neither defendant reacted as the jury foreman announced the verdicts. Adebolajo, at 29 the elder of the two, smiled and kissed a copy of the Quran as he was led down to the cells….
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/02/uk-jihadi-tells-judge-that-rigby-murder-not-a-betrayal-of-islam-you-dont-know-what-islam-is
“When Mr. Justice Sweeney sentenced Mujaahid Abu Hamza and Ismail ibn Abdullah (or as the media insists on calling them, Michael Adebolajo and Michael Adebowale) for the murder of Lee Rigby, he told them that what they had done was a “betrayal of Islam,” whereupon they became enraged and started a fight.
Angered by the judges’ comments about Islam, Adebowale stood up and shouted: “That’s a lie. It’s not a betrayal of Islam. You don’t know what Islam is.”
Where is the “renounced extremism” ‘”brainwashed’ and “‘misinterpreted the Koran’”
Why did he not tell the judge all this?
JDow says
Another poor clueless soul WOKE up and smelled the sewer.
{^_^}
Marigold says
If ordinary Muslims, even ones who are cultural rather than active in the sense that they don’t go to the mosque can’t see the unreasonableness of some of Islam’s beliefs and practices what hope is there that the radical Islamists can be de radicalised? I have had some experience with so called moderate muslims so I know what I am talking about.
The TRUTH must be told to ALL Muslims that it is NOT a religion of peace even if some aspects of it would give that impression. Moderate muslims have to admit that the ultimate aim of Islam is for everyone to become Muslim by force if neccessary and that is how it was spread in the first place in many instances.
It must be compared with Christianity where Jesus taught the opposite that His good news should be spread but not forced upon people but accept it freely.
However, I don’t think this is ever going to happen because we have no strong Christian leaders so things will just go on as they have been doing.
Carol the 1st says
Too much tendency to kick ourselves in the pants. Good religions value cooperation and the image of a sanely benevolent Godhead. We teach our children responsibility and gentle optimism unlike Islam which promotes and often drills egoistic anger, lies, and a sense of false victimhood into their vulnerable children. There’s no place for an attack-mode ‘religion’ in the 21st century.
gravenimage says
UK: Psychologist behind “deradicalization” scheme says there’s no guarantee jihadis can ever be “cured”
………………
D’oh!
Livia Varju says
Of course deradicalisation programmes fail every time. The commandment to “kill the infidels” has been drummed and beaten into them. There is only one solution to all this violence and suffering: priests, pastors, bishops, churches, country authorities, the EU and the UN must insist that Imams issue fatwas against terrorists and repeat in mosques and in the media that murderers will not go to paradise but burn in hell eternally. In addition, Islam must be reformed, removing from their sacred books all the many incitements to violence. E.g. in the Koran there is the commandment, “kill the infidels” over 100 times!
gravenimage says
Islam reformed would not be Islam. Just keep those who practice this vicious creed out of our countries.
Carol the 1st says
Imams can’t do that! If you take away the weird and wonderful dimension they’d have to take a good look in the mirror. Best not to be so harsh. Allah would be best pleased if you stayed stunned and stupefied until you and your descendants gain logical and emotional incoherence yourselves e.g. more crazies for the Islamic assembly line please!