“Turkey obtained these vehicles from May to August 2019, with 75 per cent of the program financed by European funds.”
The European Union seems bent on committing civilizational suicide.
“WATCH: EU-funded Turkish Armoured Vehicle Rips Down Greek Border Fence,” by Jack Montgomery, Breitbart, March 10, 2020:
The Greek government has released a night-vision video which they claim shows a Turkish armoured vehicle obtained through European Union funding trying to rip down border fencing and allow illegal migrants to penetrate the Greek border.
A statement released along with the video said it was “depicting a Turkish armoured border surveillance vehicle which tries to pull down part of the border fence with a rope”, according to Greek newspaper Kathimerini and the Associated Press.
“This is a HIZAR/ATES vehicle, which is equipped with instruments that allow it to monitor the border (day and night),” the statement claimed.
“Turkey obtained these vehicles from May to August 2019, with 75 per cent of the program financed by European funds. It has a powerful engine and climbing capabilities.”…
The fact that the Turkish authorities have provided transport for migrants, not just from Syria but from all over Asia and Africa, to reach the frontier is not denied, and has even been promoted — but they are also accused of providing violent migrants with tear gas, targetting Greek border guards with tear gas directly, and organising mass assaults on the border with the use of drones.
The Turks do not deny firing tear gas at Greek personnel, although they claim this has only been done in response to the Greeks firing tear gas at them.
Turkish interior minister Süleyman Soylu has been fairly clear that his government’s current stance is punitive by design, however, telling CNN that he expects by the time one million migrants breach the Greek border — which also forms part of the European Union’s common external border — Europe’s economies will deteriorate, the stock market will tumble, and governments will fall out of office.
President Erdogan has indicated that the current policy will not change until the bloc’s stance on Syria changes to his satisfaction.
Sam says
Be ready Europe for Civil war in coming years
mortimer says
This is tantamount to an invasion of a sovereign NATO country.
Frank Anderson says
Mortimer, I suggest the word “tantamount” is not needed. This is nothing less than an invasion with the goal of overthrow and conquest of a nation which is a member of NATO. Any equivocation does nothing but leave wiggle room for people who should not have it. Please consider?
Steve says
Turkey is also a member of NATO. So to be accurate one NATO member is invading another NATO member.
Frank Anderson says
Steve, I think you are correct, for the moment. I suggest, and would argue if such an opportunity existed, that the NATO treaty applies to protect its members from any invasion or attack, including an attack by another member.
In US law, almost all the time, the substance of a transaction governs over the form. I am not immediately aware of any example where it does not. The substance of the alliance is mutual and joint defense from any attack. A member attacking another member SHOULD be treated as violating the treaty, and at least “for the moment” no longer a member.
Also under US law, what one cannot do directly, through his own action, he also cannot do indirectly by inducing others to do it for him. 18 United States Code Section 2 makes anyone who “aids, abets, counsels or acts in furtherance of a federal felony” equally guilty with the “actual perpetrator”. So Turkey using a mob of illegal aliens to invade Greece SHOULD be treated as invading Greece with its own resources.
We both KNOW what SHOULD be done and what WILL be done are often different.
“Please consult a currently licensed attorney practicing in your jurisdiction for any legal advice.”
Ginny says
And getting away with it!
gravenimage says
The same thing happened–with the same players–in the 1970s when Turkey invaded Greek Cyprus.
Larry says
Civil war is coming soon and possibly the start of WWIII.
brenrod says
and yet the euros still trade and have relations with turkey, duh?
Robert Porter says
So, what did Greece do about this vehicle? Had anyone tried this on South African border when the old ‘white’ government was in power, the vehicle and all those in it would have been destroyed and anyone who tried to enter through the damaged fence would have been turned into food for vultures. Erdogan needs a strong response to his acts of war and his Muslim rabble need to be obliterated when they enter Greece.
Nabi Rasch says
Not likely. You can safely bet the farm the poor hapless dupes, buggered by their own legal community, will wind up buying rugs, butts ready for the Islamist boot they deserve.
No Muzzies Here says
Europe has been weakened by the virus. Turkey is aware of that, and is sending millions of individuals into Europe with the goal of totally destroying it. The timing is intentional.
A country can take only so much! An epidemic infecting and killing its citizens, destroying their productivity, at the same time as the influx of individuals who have zero intention of becoming productive citizens.
WithPurpleAbandon says
True. Introducing incremental cataclysms to Europe is the neo-Ottoman strategy at this point.
Robert Porter says
Don’t agree. What was weakened a long time ago was European brains and spirit. Now they have no guts and are cowardly.
Dale says
No matter your race or your place a worlwide call to jihad gets closer day by day
Robert Porter says
Dale, and while this develops the West slumbers, ruled by political correctness, ignorance of Islam and its goals, and weak, cowardly leadership. In order to reverse the Islamization of the U.K. and Europe, Australia and clueless New Zealand and Canada, it would require ruthless dictatorial measures, the uprooting of hundreds of thousands of Muslims and them being deposited on Muslim lands. I don’t think that the present Western leadership has the stomach to do what is required to create a new order minus Muslims.
Frank Anderson says
R.P. I think your assessment is unfortunately close. Using history as a guide for examples, I think there is a comparison with the period following WWI where Communists were rampant in Europe and governments were powerless to bring them into control. To me, that led to the rise of the Nazis. What third alternative existed then and can one be found now?
RichardL says
I don’t see a fence being ripped down. The line goes slack at the end.
Paul J says
Read the opening paragraph again, it says TRYING to rip down.
RichardL says
I don’t trust media reports, but I do trust Robert Spencer. His headline is then wrong and that is worse than the media report being wrong.
Phuc Yieu says
FYI, the writer doesn’t generally decide the headline, the publications editor does.
Rev. G says
And this is why we need a wall.
Sandor Schneller says
Javelin team!
James Lincoln says
So a NATO member, Greece, is being attacked.
It shouldn’t matter that the aggressor, Turkey, is also a NATO member – the Article 5 rules of the NATO treaty should apply.
Any of our Jihad Watch attorneys care to weigh in?
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/official_texts_17120.htm
Frank Anderson says
J.L., a contract for a legal purpose is enforceable. A contract (treaty) for an illegal purpose is void, as though it never existed. United States v. Biloxi, 219 F.Supp 691 (DC Miss. 1963), aff’d 326 F.2d 237 (5th Cir. 1964), cert den 379 U.S. 929 (1965). Looking at the NATO treaty as a contract, any agreement that purports to committing NATO members to support the illegal aggression of one member against another would be void under US law. Greece has a valid claim for assistance in resisting an illegal attack. Time for Turkey to be expelled from NATO and stop the lie.
James Lincoln says
Thank you very much, Frank!
Best wishes always.
gravenimage says
I agree, Frank. But NATO did nothing when Turkey invaded Greek Cyprus back in the 1970s, and will likely o nothing now, either.
Frank Anderson says
GI, reason and logic mean nothing to corrupt people. The law means nothing when it is not enforced. I have seen it happen and been destroyed by the results. The fact the EU is sending money to support Greek borders MIGHT indicate a different approach than you and I expect.
gravenimage says
I *hope* the EU supports Greece here–but I am not counting on it.
Frank Anderson says
GI, please see my note elsewhere about false hope. I agree that I will believe it when I see ACTION instead of hollow words. This “refugee crisis” is a fraud to cover an invasion and conquest, nothing less. We can only speculate that Greece has enough left of its courage and determination to fight as it did following the Nazi retreat leading to a war with Communism that lasted from 1945-48(?). Considering the massive idiocy of Greek finance and absurd early retirement plans paying tens and hundreds of thousands to not work, while debt grows, wishful thinking is more likely to apply than sound optimism. Once Greece falls, look at the map.
gravenimage says
Frank, I agree we have to be careful about false hope–but we also have to be careful about giving up too soon. Even with the brave people here at Jihad Watch, we see this all too often.
Ginny says
What about US warheads in Turkey? Relations with Russia are strained and who will have their finger on the button if we oust Turkey? My military intel says Putin is worried as Russia stands with Syria against Erdogan.
Frank Anderson says
Ginny, search B61 nuclear weapons. The 50 or so in Turkey date from the 1960’s. ONE thing for certain about US bombs is that they do not go off by accident. Look at the many that have not gone off after crashes and submarine disasters.
Each bomb almost certainly requires a key. It is a safe bet, in my opinion, that those keys, if not the bombs themselves, are outside Turkey. A fair estimate is that each bomb weighs between 1000 and 2000 pounds, making them light enough to move in quiet, small packages.
The US has made over 40,000 nuclear bombs-NOT ONE has detonated by accident. One was on top of a Thor missile for a high altitude test several hundred miles above Johnston Island in the Pacific Ocean. The rocket blew up on the launching pad, but the bomb did not detonate-the explosive that compresses the core did, but in a disorderly fashion that did not trigger the nuclear explosion. Another was on top of a Titan II missile in a silo when the missile detonated, but the bomb did not.
Turkey’s claim to those bombs is beyond credible. Their threat to purchase bombs elsewhere is always both open and possible. I THINK what the Turks claim and what they have are two different things. I KNOW the US personnel in charge of those bombs would disappoint the Turks if they tried to take them. And then there are always the Israelis?
black adder says
Tell that to president Trump. I don’t think he will agree with you. He is almost in love with Erdogan.
Frank Anderson says
B.A. I think it was the previous occupant of the White House who was deeply in love with the “president” of Turkey.
ploome says
live ammo
somehistory says
The creepy devil worshipper, er dog a wan, has claimed that the Greeks are nazis. This moslim, bent on world power, is a demon-inspired murderer. The so-called “god” he worships is none other than satan and the filthy, raper of children, mass murderer called a “prophet,’ was a lying swine.
The three merit our Creator’s wrath. And any who “fund” this present creepy devil worshipper, will have some things for which to answer. Serious things.
SAFI says
Let us praise the European Union for being such a generous sponsor of its own enemies… eh I mean “NATO ally”
gravenimage says
Video: EU-funded Turkish armored vehicle rips down Greek border fence
………………
Utter insanity. Why did the EU give these Muslim thugs these armored vehicles to begin with?
Bezelel says
I can’t tell what turkey contributes to civilization at all. What do they produce in goods or services? If they fell off the earth, who would miss them?
Frank Anderson says
B, some really excellent sporting firearms are produced in Turkey and some are marketed by Berretta, Benelli and H&K. Turkish walnut is one of the most beautiful woods I have seen.
Bezelel says
Frank, I was sizing up a turk made 1911 a few years ago, decided on Ruger. But compared to a Gyro, the turks lose.
Frank Anderson says
B. you are certainly entitled to your evaluation. It is your money being spent. I “apprenticed” with an FFL dealer for about 15 years because I treasured his company and experience. He had a number of Turkish made firearms, especially shotguns, and including some being sold with Beretta/Benelli/HK labels. All were quite satisfactory for fit and finish. We never had a complaint from a buyer. There was an excellent direct copy of a Remington 870 for a remarkable price. I would not be surprised that Remington parts would fit. I would now given a choice prefer a different source if I were spending my money.
Bezelel says
I can appreciate your personal experience, but even the chinese are able thrive on the monkey see monkey do system, Greece has given civilization a lot to build on and it grieves me to civilization take hits from savages.
Frank Anderson says
B. we agree that times are different. There was a time when Turkey was different, and a true ally to civilization. That time is gone. I would, sadly, avoid Turkish goods today, including that incredibly beautiful walnut that makes my mouth water to see. Have you ever seen such a stock? I saw a pair of $250,000 guns at the Tulsa show with Turkish wood. Now that all my buddies are retired or gone, I won’t see them again.
Bezelel says
I came across a true work of art years ago and have the photo saved somewhere and can’t post it here, maybe you can find it. Owens Mastodon it is a hand made 4 bore double rifle with hand made cartridges engraved and carved. Beautiful wood and chrome molybdenum metal. I’ve read weapons like it were given as gifts to Maharajahs to use for tiger hunts. https://revivaler.com/ken-owen-owen-rewa-4-bore-double-rifle/
can’t believe I found this one. it’s not the Mastodon tho, I read somewhere that it sold $50,000.00 i didn’t notice the type of wood.
Bezelel says
Can’t believe it, here it is but only says walnut http://www.sitemason.com/page/fDPJHG
Frank Anderson says
B. Among many trades and professions, I am a degreed engineer with a fair claim to being a gunsmith. I honor and respect those whose talent is far greater than mine. I have worked on a loading machine for 11 years, the last 5 on the final feature that I wish to automate, and am near seeing it all work. My work is ugly, but it works. This work is beautiful AND works! I don’t know that I would want to shoot it? Thank you-makes me wish for another trip to Tulsa.
Bezelel says
I have over 40 yrs in the art biz no machinist training, This guy is definitely better than I can can do and leaves Andy Warhol in the dust. The report I read on people who have fired them say that shot #1 sends the barrel straight up and spins a 200lb man in a circle.
Frank Anderson says
B. I have a friend who asked me to zero his 50 BMG, another with a 416 Rem, and another with a 460 Weatherby, a bunch of 375 H&H, and a 45-70. I calculate the trajectory and set the sight to keep the path close enough to the line of sight that distance does not matter until the target is too far away for a clean shot.
The buddy with the 418 went to Africa, (Zimbabwe!) chased a record kudu for 10 days and was told it was 600 yards instead of 600 feet, and his rifle was zeroed by someone else at 100 yards. He missed.
He understood that the fees for guided hunting paid for conservation that maintains the herds. When professional guided hunting was allowed in Kenya, the elephant herd numbered about 70,000. When it stopped, poachers took the herd below 700. I hunt with a camera unless otherwise necessary.
Bezelel says
I’ve never had a chance to fire any of those but yeah the bench is where it starts. I love my 12ga moss 500 with the rifle barrel, ugliest gun I’ve ever owned ballistics almost identical to 45/70 300 grn. I do some work for a guy whose house is full of his mounts from Africa. He likes his his 300mag. He’s taken Eland Kudu Hyena Zebra on and on, gets me fantasizing. The 450 or 500 nitro always peaked my interest. Deer Bear and Hogs have been my staple here. My mossberg is ready for Elk or Moose should opportunity arise. I met a man in Arizona who loved hunting mountain lions with his dogs, he only uses a camera anymore. Beautiful closeups.
Frank Anderson says
B, not only did I get to shoot all those rifles, I loaded the ammunition. The 50 BMG needs so much force that I assembled an air powered press operated by 3 buttons instead of a 4 foot cheater bar. Fun to watch!
Bezelel says
My dad told me the 50 BMG was used as a sniper round in Korea. That’s a lot power.My studies on loading have taught me there’s a lot of variables around chamber pressure, sort of scared me off of trying it. I found a site called “12GA Rifle From Hell” This guy Hubel makes shotguns into big bore rifles, Not pumps tho. He claims on this page to make 385 grn slug go 3900 fps. https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197214&page=28 I’m not going to try it myself but he has established some parameters and made some interesting guns. Your lucky to get to do the hands on part of it.
Frank Anderson says
B. I started reloading in 1964 and have loaded many cartridges ranging from 32 ACP to 50 BMG. Good scales, good powder measures, and careful following of loading data makes good cartridges. Any of the standard reloading manuals is a good place to start: Start and page 1 and read every page in sequence, Speer, Hornady, Lee, Accurate, Hodgdon. It can be done safely. I would not worry about your 12 ga load-it sounds questionable.
50 BMG is used today all over the world by US snipers. Shots in excess of a mile are taken with success. The numbers are fascinating because among other things the bullet takes so much time in flight the earth’s rotation makes a difference. Think of a gun barrel as a 1 cylinder, 1 cycle engine. The thermodynamics from the classes work.
Bezelel says
Frank, I have done some muzzle loader shooting, extremely basic reloading. The powder is measured by volume. They’re fun but dirty burning, cleanup is as important as loading. But consistent charges equal tighter groups. The old 16 inch Naval guns used black powder in breach loaders. Major calculations for those guys. Nice talking to you. Hopefully Turkey will get back to secular govt. some day.
Frank Anderson says
B. if you are thinking about the 16 inch guns on the Iowa/New Jersey/Wisconsin/Missouri and Alabama class, they used small amounts of black powder to get the larger bags of “smokeless” powder going. The WWII Japanese used a combination of powder in their guns to make them nearly flashless in night shooting, a trick that we can do with reloading by using faster burning powder. You can get started with a competent kit that will never be obsolete no matter how much you add for about 300 dollars. I am still using the first single stage press I bought about 1970 in spite of having much more sophisticated and expensive equipment now. The pleasure of our conversation is mutual. Please take a look at the reloading manuals. If I can do it, so can you.
Adam says
God-less, gutless Europeeins. You can never do for someone, what they are unwilling to do for themselves.
What might be the excuse this time around? Why should one finger be lifted to help save an anti-American, anti-freedom anything? What great and glorious parts shall we save, choking regulations, the progressive onerous tax systems, wonders of elitism, monarchies, endless layers of putrid bureaucracy?
I for one say enough treasure has been spent in Europe, the way things are looking we need all the treasure we can muster for ourselves and our own hemisphere.
Ginny says
Amen!
Bezelel says
It’s obvious erdogan is a POS, he keeps proving it. Question for now is how to get out in front of his next trick. Just reacting to his lead is going to get very tiresome. I would love to see turkey get a dose of something to contend with. A unified Kurd/ Syrian Russian assault would be good timing right now. I know turkey has a huge military but they can be hurt.
John says
>> The European Union seems bent on committing civilizational suicide << Most of the armored vehicles used by Turkey have been supplied by the US and also payed for by the US taxpayer. So if Turkey had used an US made vehicle to try and tear down the fence would that mean that the US seems bent on committing civilizational suicide? If the articles here come up with such nonsensical argumentation then it makes it easy for people who oppose this website to discredit it.
Ginny says
Quite right. The US has been on the death of civilization track for quite some time now.
Marshall Gill says
Should have just taken it out with a jet or AT gun.
Larry says
The Greek Military needs to start shooting, and in the case of this vehicle, anti-armor missiles.
Marilyn Renee says
Thus, we are building a wall. The EU and the UN will be adamant that we too ought have our borders overrun. We must prepare for war here in the US, the entire democrat party is instigating one. Thing is, they will use the UN against us if they can. We will be prepared in most of our neighborhoods to keep them from eventually looking like the San Francisco chit pile.