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Ibn Warraq Pens Extraordinary New Study of Atheism in the Islamic World

May 14, 2020 2:30 pm By Robert Spencer

Among the many essential works of Ibn Warraq, the renowned ex-Muslim historian and scholar of Islam, is an unjustly overlooked book entitled Leaving Islam: Apostates Speak Out, in which he gives a voice to a group of people who are all too often threatened, marginalized, or simply ignored for being too inconvenient for all parties concerned. Now, in the unique and extraordinary Leaving the Allah Delusion Behind: Atheism and Freethought in Islam, Ibn Warraq has provided an extraordinary complement to his earlier volume: a comprehensive survey of atheism in the Islamic world from the earliest days of Islam up to today.

The very existence of this voluminous study might seem anomalous to some, as many assume that atheism is an Enlightenment and post-Enlightenment phenomenon limited to the West and unknown in other cultures and parts of the world. Islam, we are told, is all-encompassing, such that atheism has never gained any widespread foothold in Muslim-majority countries – an argument that contradicts the consigning of every noxious practice (such as, but not limited to, female genital mutilation) in those countries to the pre-Islamic cultural practices that have somehow survived fourteen centuries in an otherwise thoroughly Islamic milieu, but that’s a question for another day.

In reality, atheism in the Islamic world is as old – indeed, older – than Islam itself. As Ibn Warraq points out, “We know from the Koran itself that there were Arab skeptics in Mecca who did not accept the ‘fables’ recounted by Muhammad – they scoffed at the notion of the resurrection of the body, they doubted the divine origins of his “revelation,” and even accused him of plagiarizing the pagan Arab poets; certain verses of the Koran are even now attributed to the pre-Islamic poet al-Qays.”

According to Islamic tradition, Muhammad had some of those skeptics brutally murdered; those who survived did not succeed in discrediting the new self-proclaimed prophet. But Leaving the Allah Delusion Behind demonstrates that, however compelling some may have found Muhammad’s revelations, rejection of Islam and even outright atheism was never entirely stamped out. From Dahris and Zindiqs in the earliest days of Islam to modern-day ex-Muslims active on social media, Ibn Warraq shows that, despite laboring under the ever-present threat of death, atheists and freethinkers have always been part of the intellectual welter of the Islamic world, and at times have wielded considerable influence.

Just as Muhammad was opposed – and considerably enraged – by poets who mocked his prophetic pretensions, so many of the foremost atheists in the Islamic world have been poets, including the celebrated Omar Khayyam of the Rubaiyyat, whom Ibn Warraq reveals as not just a poet of the pleasures of this world, but a polymath, a mathematician and philosopher of considerable depth, and a skeptic who wrote: “Houris and palaces and Heaven and Hell/These are but fairy-tales, forget them all.”

Ibn Warraq also shows that the skepticism of a man who is more often identified as a philosopher, Averroes, had considerable influence in the development of European thought leading to the Enlightenment. We hear a great deal today about how various innovations and philosophical innovations made their way West into Christendom from Islamic domains, to the extent that the West owes its very intellectual life to Islam. These claims are largely apologetic nonsense devised and propagated in order to manipulate people into adopting certain political positions today. Ibn Warraq demonstrates that a much stronger case can be made that modern atheism and religious skepticism in the West has at least some of its intellectual forbears in the Islamic world, but that is not an achievement that is going to show up in anyone’s list of the philosophical achievements of the Islamic world.

Bringing his survey up to atheism and freethought in the Islamic world in this century and the last two, Ibn Warraq finds that oft-reported numbers of converts to Islam in the West have been wildly inflated and uncritically repeated, while the number of Muslims who have left Islam is much higher than is generally assumed, as is to be expected in light of the threats they receive from the pious and devout. Profiling a number of contemporary ex-Muslims, he argues that they may present a way forward out of our present international impasse. “Communism,” he declares, “has been defeated, at least for the moment; Islamism has not, and unless a reformed, tolerant, liberal kind of Islam emerges soon, perhaps the final battle will be between Islam and Western democracy. And these former Muslims…on the side of Western democracy are the only ones who know what it’s all about, and we would do well to listen to their Cassandra cries.”

We would indeed, but at this point the Western intelligentsia has decided that it is much preferable to pretend that Islam, Sharia, and jihad are not what they are, and that consequently these ex-Muslims have nothing to tell us. These influencers and thought leaders will likely awaken to their error at some point; we can only hope that when that happens, it isn’t already too late. If Ibn Warraq, the Cassandra who wrote Leaving the Allah Delusion Behind: Atheism and Freethought in Islam, were heeded today, a great deal of pain, bloodshed, and human loss could be prevented.

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Filed Under: Apostasy Tagged With: Ibn Warraq, Leaving the Allah Delusion Behind: Atheism and Freethought in Islam


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Comments

  1. Buraq says

    May 14, 2020 at 2:39 pm

    Atheism combined with the vastly underrated impact of the Internet on Islamic dogma will finish Islam in 20 years. I used to say 50, but I believe that a tipping point will soon be reached and then the process will gather an unstoppable momentum.

    • gravenimage says

      May 14, 2020 at 5:40 pm

      I hope so, Buraq–I hope this is not too optimistic.

    • tim gallagher says

      May 14, 2020 at 6:03 pm

      Here’s hoping that what you say is true, Buraq. It would certainly improve our world enormously if this vile ideology, Islam, was gone. And about bloody time. 1400 years of this evil, inhuman, murderous ideology has been far, far too long.

    • keith O says

      May 14, 2020 at 6:19 pm

      We can only hope.

    • Keys says

      May 14, 2020 at 7:32 pm

      I think an “unstoppable momentum“ will only be possible when the Ayatollahs, Mullahs, Imams, etc., and Muslim political leaders (Erdogan, for example) are not in power.

      On the other hand, I never would have guessed the USSR would fall so quickly, and Russia become a nation with a thriving Christianity. That fall took about seven decades, but Islamic indoctrination has been around for 1400 years.

      • mortimer says

        May 15, 2020 at 10:56 am

        Response to keys: the drop-out rate is increasing as ex-Muslims create their own videos, organizations and blogs, and polemicists post videos exposing the textual, historic and moral dilemmas that remove any chance of a reasonable belief in Islam. Islam has no rational basis.

        It is the polemicists who are winning this battle single-handedly. New apostates write in to these blogs every day to announce they have just left Islam. Anecdotally, hundreds are leaving Islam every day. Since apostates from Islam must be very guarded about it, it is hard to get solid figures. I guess conservatively that at least a hundred are leaving Islam every hour. That makes a million a year, but I suspect as many as 10 million are leaving Islam every year.

        • Keys says

          May 15, 2020 at 3:27 pm

          Thanks for your hope-filled response, mortimer.

          From Pope John Paul II’s final book “Memory and Identity” published the day before he died:

          “Evil will not get the final victory. The mystery of Easter affirms that good will ultimately be victorious, that life will triumph over death, and that love will overcome hatred.”

          ***************

          I think he is saying that truth and freedom must be rooted in goodness for nations to thrive and for all their peoples to have a peaceful, abundant life. Islam is rooted, through Mohammad, in deceit and evil and can only lead to slavery, misery and death.

          Ironically, many Muslims proclaim they love death more than the West loves life; that freedom is not good, but only submission to their Allah, the best deceiver.

          *************************

          So, in regard to this post on Ibn Warraq’s book, if Muslims leave Islam to become atheists, but their atheism is not rooted in some goodness, what has been gained ? At least they are free of Islam ?

        • Acc358 says

          May 15, 2020 at 4:54 pm

          “but I suspect as many as 10 million are leaving Islam every year.”

          There are 2250 million muslims and 10 million of that figure is 0.44 percent. Let’s assume that the growth rate of the muslim population equals the world average being 1.05 percent a year. The net growth is then 0.66 percent. Result. Ten million apostates is not enough to reduce the number of muslim population.

        • zimriel says

          May 15, 2020 at 11:14 pm

          I worry about this too, Keys; especially in the Iranian nations. A “return” to Sasanian-style Zoroastrianism – basically mystical Aryan nationalism – might NOT be a win for the West. Look what the last Sasanians did to the Romans: centuries of war and, finally, mutual destruction.
          Islam did not arise out of nowhere.

        • gravenimage says

          May 17, 2020 at 8:06 pm

          Zoroastrians in Iran make up *way* less than 1% of the population.

    • John says

      May 15, 2020 at 1:12 am

      As long as Muslims leaving the fold are threatened with death and imprisonment, it will take a very long time for the Islamic countries to openly show that Muslims leave Islam. That makes it even more important that Islam is challenged in Europa and the US so that at in these countries Ex-Muslims can show that leaving Islam does not carry too big a risk.

  2. Anjuli Pandavar says

    May 14, 2020 at 3:02 pm

    Thank you, Robert, for giving this work such a prominent and excellent review. Of course, it is hard for an ex-Muslim to read your endorsement and understanding without choking up. Ibn Warraq’s long-awaited book will shake the ground beneath the Dar-al-Islam, aided in no small measure by your stunning review.

    • mortimer says

      May 15, 2020 at 11:04 am

      Ex-Muslims have been yearning for support for many long years, but now they hear the cavalry is coming to the rescue. I think it’s general knowledge among Muslims that most of their Muslim friends have apostates in the family.

      • gravenimage says

        May 15, 2020 at 9:53 pm

        Many Muslims also *murder* their relatives who are apostates.

  3. mortimer says

    May 14, 2020 at 3:05 pm

    Ibn Warraq is a great intellectual and an excellent writer. He adds luster and credibility to the many ex-Muslims who have difficulty expressing to the world the many valid reasons that led them to abandon Islam.

    I plan to read this new great work of his. No doubt the research alone took hundreds of hours.

    I like the list of proofs quoted above by Robert Spencer that show Mohammed to have been a plagiarist who stole any story he found and reworked it as an excuse for Arab supremacism in the name of a spurious, invented deity.

    The key points of Ibn Warraq’s book demonstrate that once the disorienting ‘halo’ of veneration is removed from the Koran, and we start analyzing the Koran, as we would any other piece of literature, we discover that the Koran is just what a person limited by that time and place in northern Arabia and southern Iraq could easily have plagiarized and concocted.

    The knowledge in the Koran is only what would have been available in libraries of that region in the early 7th century. Any scribe could easily transcribe and re-write the tales found in books of the time.

    Muslims who have a bit of intellect will be challenged by a book like this to take the ‘halo’ off the Koran and look at it like they would look at any historic document as the offspring of its times and a mere fruit of the author’s imagination, rather than an eternally important message … which Islam is not.

    Islam is a dysfunctional system of governance and world conquest and enslavement that was dysfunctional even in the 7th century. Islam only succeeded because the Roman and Persian empires had both been recently decimated by plague just after the death of Mohammed. If good health had prevailed at that time, Islam would never have been known to the outside world.

    • rubiconcrest says

      May 14, 2020 at 3:24 pm

      All very true. At $81, though, few Muslims will pick it up anytime soon and furthermore for a closet atheist a large book is hard to hide whereas an ebook would be easier to put away in a safe place.

      • Honest Ali says

        May 14, 2020 at 4:06 pm

        I agree. Few Muslims or non-Muslims can afford such an expensive book. Amazon has print on demand, that is affordable and still offers good royalties. This book needs to be put into paperback format and sold at 1/4 the price. It will sell like hotcakes.

        • mortimer says

          May 14, 2020 at 4:52 pm

          It will probably come out later in paperback and in e-version.

          Scholars will read it and then journalists and hopefully, Ibn Warraq will be interviewed many times to talk about his book.

      • End PC says

        May 14, 2020 at 5:35 pm

        Yep, why so expensive? BTW a fair amount on Muslim doubters & atheists in Medieval times can be found in Jennifer Hecht’s excellent book “Doubt”, and
        “Islam and Science: Religious Orthodoxy and the Battle for Rationality”
        by Pakistani physicist Pervez Hoodbhoy.

        • gravenimage says

          May 14, 2020 at 5:54 pm

          Thanks for those recommendations, End PC.

        • mortimer says

          May 15, 2020 at 11:00 am

          Books that contain several languages are more expensive to produce.

  4. Honest Ali says

    May 14, 2020 at 4:00 pm

    Some Christians may despise Atheism. But remember, Without the freedom to disbelieve, there can be no true faith. And, Islam has a long, successful history of turning different religions and sects against each other, in order to divide and conquer.

    We need to have a united front, if we want our children to have any Liberty at all.

    I look forward to reading this book. 🙂

    • Honest Ali says

      May 14, 2020 at 4:03 pm

      But seriously, lower the price of your books! You will sell far more and make more money, and have a far wider readership.

      • zimriel says

        May 15, 2020 at 11:20 pm

        Ibn Warraq has, I think, found that his scholarly books sell to a segment of the population willing to spend money on scholarly books – and not to many others. It isn’t 2002 when there were more curious infidels about. It makes sense to charge more.
        He might sell the ebook later.

    • gravenimage says

      May 14, 2020 at 5:42 pm

      Agreed re Atheism, Honest Ali.

      And the price of the book may well come down when it is released in paperback and e-versions.

      • Mo says

        May 14, 2020 at 8:07 pm

        I hope so. I would like to read it. But not at $80+.

    • Bubba Greenbow says

      May 15, 2020 at 11:50 am

      Some do despise it, but as a Christian who is 100% convinced Christ was the God-man, I have no issue with an honest atheism, and have had many rich conversations with its adherents. But I do take issue with those in my own camp who reject the call from Thessalonians (and other places in scripture) to “test everything; hold onto the good.” 🙂

  5. mortimer says

    May 14, 2020 at 4:07 pm

    Quote: “Ibn Warraq finds that … the number of Muslims who have left Islam is much higher than is generally assumed.”

    In worldwide surveys, about 35% of Muslims do NOT want Sharia law or a caliphate. I suggest that these non-effective Muslims are de facto apostates who do not admit to anyone that they are in reality disbelieving apostates.

    The drop-out rate from Islam, if studied carefully at the moment, would likely show a great increase. I believe that most Muslims will drop out as a result of books and videos by ex-Muslims in the coming 20 years.

  6. Rarely says

    May 14, 2020 at 5:27 pm

    I suspect that, as is often the case with many religions and ideologies, many of the “believers” are not true believers at all but rather just sheep going along with the crowd. The religion and/or ideology usually provides a sense of community and belonging and, as such, may attract a loyal following. Add to that the iron fist that islam wields over its members and belief has less relevance than survival. (Like the Mafia — if you leave, you die).
    Keeping the masses ignorant and adding a touch of brainwashing has always worked. It’s infinitely easier to go with the floe than against it. There is also the legitimizing of violence (perhaps even the demanding of it) which is attractive to a vicious class of animal not unlike that which made Nazi Germany possible.
    Therefore, intellectual arguments, however well documented and stated, have a serious uphill battle to create a stampede of deserters. What these writings will do, and why they are so valuable, is that they can help to open eyes, previously closed, to the dangers we are facing. You can’t solve a problem if you don’t know what the problem is. Plaudits.

    • gravenimage says

      May 14, 2020 at 5:48 pm

      Yes, it is likely true that some Muslims–like some Jews, Christians, Hindus, etc–are not really true believers. But will any of these lax Muslims actually come to our aid against their more fanatical coreligionists? Likely not.

      And while “only on Easter” or “only on Hannukah” Christians and Jews are no threat to anyone, just as their more devout fellows are not, lax Muslims give cover to Jihadists and creeping Shari’ah, both of which are significant threats. Many of them also pay at least some Zakat, much of which goes to funding violent Jihad.

      • Rarely says

        May 14, 2020 at 6:41 pm

        All too true, unfortunately. These lapsed “anythings” are likely to cheer for and vote for “their” side. Without the activists though they are pretty benign. But I dream. Perhaps the book will enable some minds to be opened and lives improved.

        • gravenimage says

          May 15, 2020 at 9:55 pm

          I hope so, Rarely, Likely it will be more Infidels than Muslims reading this book, though.

  7. gravenimage says

    May 14, 2020 at 5:49 pm

    Ibn Warraq Pens Extraordinary New Study of Atheism in the Islamic World
    …………………..

    Good to hear about this book. Agnostics and Atheists are as much at threat from Islam as are those of non-Muslim faiths.

  8. Terry Gain says

    May 14, 2020 at 10:46 pm

    I welcome this book and thank Robert Spencer for bringing it to our attention. I have long believed that ex-Muslims will be our salvation from Islam’s advance. They have insight and credibility that we regular infidels slack. Given the delusional embrace of Islam by Christian leaders, especially the execrable Bergoglio, it’s not surprising that so many Muslims are turning to atheism. A pox on both their houses is a rational rallying cry.

  9. Sukabumi Jo Jo says

    May 15, 2020 at 1:56 am

    I’m sorry to say that I disagree with Ibn Warraq’s claim that communism has been defeated. On the contrary, all of the West is presently still governed by neomarxists, albeit that they choose to present themselves differently. Proof of the pudding? There is no freedom of speech. Correction: there is only freedom of speech for neomarxist people and ideas.

    • gravenimage says

      May 15, 2020 at 9:56 pm

      I do take your point–but there are fewer full Communist nations these days.

  10. Westman says

    May 15, 2020 at 3:09 am

    Has anyone consdered that Islam keeps 20% of humanity noncompetive, yet consumers, in the economic arena? From a capitalist corporate point of view, is that incompetence undesirable?

    Just a thought about why corporations see no problem with Islam.

    • Terry Gain says

      May 15, 2020 at 7:46 am

      I think the implicit threat of violence keeps most people in line. And of course there is also the threat of being shunned for being politically incorrect. These are powerful incentives, which is why I think Ex-Muslims will carry the ball, as their arguments against Islam cannot be dismissed by dishonest accusations of racism and Islamophobia. May the future belongs to those who tell the truth about Mohamed.

      David Wood and Anthony Russell have an excellent discussion posted yesterday on YouTube of the mishmash which is the Koran.

    • gravenimage says

      May 15, 2020 at 9:59 pm

      Westman, I don’t think that Capitalists consider the ideal to be parasitic consumers, especially when they are robbing and murdering productive people.

      There is no reason to suppose that most Capitalists understand anything more about Islam than do most Westerners.

  11. Bob Ross says

    May 15, 2020 at 8:13 am

    What I think is a problem… IQ. Strongly connected to sex and race. Why democracy fails in certain places on this planet. To question your believe or even more… because islam is NOT a religion, it is an ideology controlling everything… you need a level of IQ. But as long as the West is not challenging islam and calls everything good, it will spread more and more. Estimated 80 to 90% in Europe are considered radical. Radical does not mean bomb building. Three groups: jihadi (bombing) islamist (political way on demanding extra status,…) fundamentalist (following the word of the books, every hijab wearing woman… the hijab is not connected to the faith. it is connected to the law. And more so, to protect her from rape. – Women Organisations give advice to any woman in the west to cover their hair and there for prevent rape. 85 – 100% of rapes in Europe by muslims (depending on country). But as long politics say… all is good an d has nothing to do with islam… I see little hope.

    • gravenimage says

      May 15, 2020 at 10:04 pm

      Bob, how is IQ connected to sex and race? In fact, women score virtually equally with men on IQ tests–sometimes slightly above.

      And yes–Hijab and Purdah are very much part of religion in Islam. The “Prophet” himself said that women should cover lest they be molested.

  12. FYI says

    May 15, 2020 at 12:10 pm

    Arabic speaking ex-muslim atheists {the “apostates” }are key pioneers in this area.

    islamic apologists love to fiddle the Arabic to hide the mistakes in the koran:they even do this to non-Arabic speaking muslims{“Oh you couldn’t possibly understand the koran as it is written in classical Arabic”}

    This is Hogwash.

    The errors in the koran {for example allah’s epic epic theology fail of koran 5:116 where he has Mary in the Christian Trinity} are wrong in Arabic.They are wrong in English.
    In fact if the koran was written in Binary Code the errors would STILL of course remain.
    An illogicality does not simply disappear when it is translated into another language.

    I am seriously impressed by anyone who leaves islam.i know ex-muslim atheists get a lot of hassle.

    This islamic lunacy about “insulting the koran ” too:That is just a trick used by islamic “holy” men to instill fear in muslims,get them to avoid seeing all the errors in allah’s “perfect” book{which by allah’s own criterion of koran 4:82 cannot come from God as errors imply imperfection and thus the koran can only come from “other than allah”}

    Arabic speakers are invaluable to expose the nonsense of islam.

    • FYI says

      May 15, 2020 at 12:36 pm

      A book that is has demonstrable errors in it cannot be said to be perfect.

      The awkward fact about the koran is that allah gets pretty much everything wrong.There are Logical,Theological,Historical and even grammatical errors{in The Arabic}in the “perfect” koran.

      allah has a criterion of koranic perfection..

      “Will they ponder on the quran?If it had been from other than allah they would have found much incongruity therein.”
      Koran 4:82

      If the koran has no errors in it, it is PERFECT{thus it is indeed from allah who is perfect}
      BUT
      If the koran has ANY errors in it{even ONE},it is IMPERFECT{and so it cannot come from allah as allah is PERFECT …and so the koran must come from “other than allah”;man-made}

      If you are an atheist/ex-muslim you will indeed have pondered on the koran and discovered that, contrary to islamic belief ,the koran is actually FULL OF ERRORS and so by allah’s OWN criterion of koran 4:82,it cannot come from allah{as allah never errs}

      The errors show that the “perfect” koran,in its imperfections,cannot come from allah[as allah is perfect}

      So allah himself gives the game away:the koran is BOGUS.

      It is as if the author of the koran{..who admits to being a champion at fooling people koran 3:54 for pete’s sake!..}is yanking your chain….having a joke at your expense but you as an ex-muslim have spotted it and the idiotic islamic “scholars” never will.

      • Lilith Wept says

        May 17, 2020 at 12:47 am

        Then a book that can only be truely understood in Arabic, and can not be adequately translated to any human language, and is not even considered to “be” the actual Koran unless it’s written in Arabic, ( it’s just an interpretation of the Koran if it’s in any other language) is NOT a book for all people’s at all times……and the diety who’s word it purports to be is not a God for all people.
        Not to mention how the Koran has changed over time……If it’s the literal word of God, then He should be able to:

        .1. Have it make sense , both in the orginal,language and in translations.

        2) Have NO mistakes , errors, meaningless letters , or unclear passages.

        3)Not allowed anyone but Mohammed to suggest what the Koran said…but a scribe Mohammed hired did make suggestions, and Mohammed took them, so the scribe apostates, “says this is not the word of God if I can make changes and suggestions to it and Mohammed is ok with this ” and left ( he was later killed by Mohammeds thugs for this “crime”

        4) be able to guard it from changing even a single word..(….but it has changed, even in Mohammeds time people would say they heard Mohammed recite a verse in two different ways)
        After all, the Koran is not supposed to be the word of men that were inspired by God, but the dictation of God…to an angel…..to Mohammed……to a bunch of people …who forgot parts of it, disagreed about what Mohammed had orginal,y said in the first place…….and allowed a goat to eat the paper part of it was written on, ………then died without preserving what they had memorized….

        5) and it was not completely written down into a real “Book” until after the deity’s represenative, the “prophet “ died….

        Islam , the Koran, Mohammed, none of it can’t take careful examination. ….this is why moslems have been conditioned to respond violently to any kind of examination, no matter how peaceful. In fact Mohammed even told people not tomtaketo the Koran into infedel lands, among unbelievers…because they would disparage and commit….Keep,in mind when Mo said that the Koran was not a book, just memories in people’s minds…..

        The internet has blown Islam wide open…it’s all there , translated, and Available for everyone to examine, question, critisize and debunk and disprove.
        May we cause more moslems to leave islam as they are de programmed from Islam.

  13. David says

    May 15, 2020 at 12:46 pm

    There were religious skeptics long before Islam was invented in the 7th Century AD.
    The ancient Greek philosopher Epicurus (341 BC to 270 BC) maintained that death is the end of existence, that the terrifying stories of punishment in the afterlife are ridiculous superstitions, and that death is therefore nothing to be feared.
    From this doctrine arose the Epicurean epitaph: Non fui, fui, non-sum, non-curo (“I was not; I was; I am not; I do not care”), which is inscribed on the gravestones of his followers and seen on many ancient gravestones of the Roman Empire. This quotation is often used today at humanist funerals.
    There were probably many other intelligent people, born many centuries before Epicurus, who were sceptical of their religious practices.
    Atheism is probably as old as the human race itself.

    • gravenimage says

      May 15, 2020 at 10:05 pm

      This is quite true; it is only Islam that mandates death for apostates and Atheists, though.

  14. Kepha says

    May 15, 2020 at 6:54 pm

    I do not welcome a Western-style scientism or neo-idolatry (“atheist” only insofar as it denies the dominant deity/deities of thre culture in which it arises). In the Islamic world, it will be the substitution of one destructive faith by another. It will intensify the destructive tendencies of Islamic culture rather than temper them.

    In the Western world, “scientific progress” applied to political life killed, imprisoned, exiled, or otherwise ruined more people than suffered for heresy in the fifteen centuries between the conversion of Constantine and Ruggles v. NY.

    • gravenimage says

      May 15, 2020 at 10:09 pm

      Kepha, *surely* you are not in favor of Muslims murdering Atheist apostates, though?

      And you know that they are just as likely to murder apostates who become Christians.

  15. Lilith Wept says

    May 17, 2020 at 12:26 am

    The book is $81 on Amazon! I do buy and read a lot of the books about Islam, and jihad that are recommended on Jihad watch .and the topic of moslems leavingbislam greatly inyerests me…….But Wow! Just Wow! This out of my budget !

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