The Muslims who are threatening Hofer do not accept the principle of the freedom of speech. Either Austria will defend that principle, or surrender it. That goes for all the other countries in the free world as well. And so far, the record of defense of this idea, the linchpin of any free society, is not good.
“Regarding his statements about the Koran, Hofer sees what he said confirmed by threats,” translated from “Hofer sieht sich nach Koran-Sager durch Drohungen bestätigt,” Unser Tirol, June 18, 2020 (thanks to Medforth):
After his statements on Tuesday that the Koran is more dangerous than the Corona virus, the head of the Freedom Party (FPÖ), Norbert Hofer, says he has been confronted with countless insults and death threats on social media. This shows that his words “may not have been completely without foundation”; the party leader sees his criticism confirmed.
In the APA interview, Hofer reported on death threats and verbal abuse at the “worst level”, especially on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram, or via direct messages. In numerous articles – including those sent to the APA by the FPÖ – the FPÖ chief is dubbed the “son of a bitch” who “will burn in hell”. Several users also expressed the hope that Hofer would “die”. Others became even clearer: “If one day you are found dead on the street, don’t be surprised,” wrote one user.
Hofer also said he would take legal action: “I will not put up with it if someone threatens to kill me.” It is a misguided community trying to pressure me here. Although he did not expect it, he was also not shocked and would surely “not let himself be silenced” by these “oh so peace-loving people”. The FPÖ leader said that the evidence was being collected and was constantly growing, and had been handed over to both the security authorities and his legal representative. At the same time, Hofer reported “a whole, large number of reactions from Austrians” to his appearance, which were positive.
Hofer has “no understanding at all” for critical voices regarding his statements among politicians or from representatives of the faith. “I would like people to develop a certain sensitivity to certain undesirable developments,” he said. “If I had said something similar about the Bible, those people who are now enraged would have remained silent,” says Hofer, who is faced with two charges of incitement and degradation of religious teachings. It was clear to him that it was always about the interpretation of the Koran. You can also find passages worthy of criticism in the Bible, “but we have experienced humanism and enlightenment,” he said.
Peter Watson says
It is humanism and the Enlightenment (the Endarkenment) which have lead western civilization to its ultimate demise.
gravenimage says
How has reason done this? Rather, it is willful ignorance and “political correctness”.
RichardL says
Hi graven, I publish on this. The basic idea is that the two Enlightenment ethics, deontology and consequentialism, have turned reason into rationality. Take abortion: only rational sentient beings have rights and duties; therefore babies, fetuses, senile people, retarded people etc. all have no rights. It doesn’t matter that Kant would be abhorred by this – it is the position of most neo-Kantians. Virtue ethics, the official philosophy of the Catholic Church for 150 years, follows the Aristotelian notion of reason and does not assume that there is ratio and emotio and between them ratio must always win. Sorry, too short and too long post…
william carr says
Richard
Your argument is baseless. Abortion is based on a women’s right to choose which has existed down the ages in many cultures, other than the Roman Christian of course; and is nothing to do with the enlightenment. I have said many times (here and elsewhere) that if men were the ones who had to bear a child for nine months and endure all the physical discomforts, pain and inconveniences attending pregnancy, we can be quite sure there would be no arguments about the matter. As for babies the rights of babies
of all ages are protected in laws, as are the rights of the mentally and physically disabled and mentally impaired through age. THose rights are a consequence of the enlightenment. Without the enlightnement we would still be burning ‘witches’ and casting out the devil. Quoting long dead philosophers gets us nowhere as we do not know what their opinions on 20 century and 21st century questions might be
gravenimage says
RichardL wrote:
Hi graven, I publish on this.
……………….
Richard–with all respect–that you have published on this topic (which I have no reason to doubt) does not mean ergo that everyone must agree with you, Surely you don’t agree with everyone who has published work? By the way, I am published myself.
More:
The basic idea is that the two Enlightenment ethics, deontology and consequentialism, have turned reason into rationality.
……………….
Rationality does not perforce demand the destruction of the West. Regarding deontology, it depends on what set of rules are cited–some of these may be moral, some not. And consequentialism is not a core part of the Enlightenment–an idea or action may still be moral even if it does not lead to the desired consequence. For instance, opposing Fascism would have been a noble thing even if the Allies had not won. Moreover, as in that case, the outcome of actions are often not known for certain ahead of time. No one, of whatever philosophy, could function if they had to ensure success before acting.
More:
Take abortion: only rational sentient beings have rights and duties; therefore babies, fetuses, senile people, retarded people etc. all have no rights. It doesn’t matter that Kant would be abhorred (sic) by this – it is the position of most neo-Kantians.
……………….
Since it is such a contentious issue, let’s leave abortion aside for now (I am pro-life, by the way).
The idea that *anyone* in the West is arguing for the abuse of babies, the disabled and developmentally disabled, and the frail elderly is just bizarre.
What neo-Kantians are demanding this? Citations, please. (Moreover, the heyday of neo-Kantianism ended over a hundred years ago).
The fact is that almost everyone in the West agrees that these people should be cared for (arguments over who should pay for such care are different matters).This is not just something that those with a Judeo-Christian ethic agree on, but also those secularists and rationalists–and there are large overlaps between such groups, in any case.
The claim that those with Enlightenment ethics want to see babies abused is especially odd–surely you are aware that *everyone* was a baby once, and that if all babies were subject to abuse that few people of any philosophy as grownups would reach adulthood under such conditions.
Further, while it is not perfect, generally these vulnerable people have more and better care and more safeguards in the modern West than anywhere else and at any other time in history–why would this be the case if the dominant philosophy here enjoined stripping anyone who was weak of rights?
It also does not explain how animal welfare groups both began in the post-Enlightenment West, but also thrive here.
More:
Virtue ethics, the official philosophy of the Catholic Church for 150 years, follows the Aristotelian notion of reason and does not assume that there is ratio and emotio and between them ratio must always win. Sorry, too short and too long post…
……………….
The idea that reason is somehow opposed to rationality is an odd one. And certainly,. the idea that acting rationally always means rejection of emotion–sympathy–is not the case. In fact, an ethically reasonable society and one that is sympathetic to the most vulnerable are often one and the same.
peter says
I agree wholeheartedly !
william carr says
If that is your argument you are indeed a fool. The Muslims are so retarded that every time they come out with violent rhetoric in ‘defence’ of their so called ‘peaceful religion’, they simply prove that it is not peaceful at all. Adding more lies to the lies they utter all the time.
People are being murdered on a scale not seen since the Second World War every week in Africa
simply because they are not Muslims.
pwwatson8888 says
It is humanism and the enlightenment (Endarkenment) which have led to the demise of western civilization which only came about because of Christianity.
gravenimage says
The idea that Christianity rejects reason is quite mistaken. The fact that the Enlightenment developed in the Christian West and not in Dar-al-Islam should be a clue.
Beverly says
There is no enlightenment in Islam. You either have Islam or you don’t.
mortimer says
The historical critique of the Koran is coming home to even the top scholars of Islam. They will not admit that they worship the Koran as the eternal words of Allah … a part of the ‘Islamic trinity’ composed of Allah, the Golden Heavenly Koran and Mohammed (who has several divine attributes).
To criticize the Koran’s or Mohammed’s ethics is considered blasphemous. However, Muslims don’t seem to feel they have to kill you if you analyze the HISTORICITY of the Koran or Mohammed. Those two fields of endeavor are being pursued adamantly in Germany, France, UK, Canada and the US. Those university scholars are pursuing every small scrap of evidence in a dozen ancient languages and Muslims are not pleased with the results, but they cannot refute them. Many mullahs and sheikhs are leaving Islam, because there is simply no clear historical basis for it. The Koran was written 100 years too late to be authentic. It is a propaganda written as a troop motivator so that Arabs and their allies would feel righteous about killing and robbing the Byzantine Romans.
The historical critique of Islam is simply DEVASTATING Islam every day as new material emerges.
It’s quite simple: if the Koran has been lost, misplaced, forgotten, amended, edited, ‘improved’ and erased for over a thousand years, then Allah did not preserve the Koran in an original text … if such a text even existed at all. There was in fact, no ‘original’ text, because the Koran evolved over about 200 years and continued to be re-edited for centuries thereafter.
Colonel Nathan Jessup interprets the duplicity of the mullahs: Muslims should NEVER see the scholarly truth about the Koran.
Colonel Michael M Geoffroy (@MichaelMGeoffr3) says
After listening to this fool for 20 minutes , he babbled a lot and said nothing .
End PC says
His painful cognitive dissonance is evident. But it doesn’t take a deep study of the Koran to see that it is a stunningly obvious fraud on all levels, logical, scientific, moral & historical. My God it’s full of common 7th century scientific errors gotten from the Greeks. Eg. Its model of the cosmos is earth centered with the sun, moon & stars orbiting it. This is provably what Muslims believed for at least a thousand years until infidel scientist established the heliocentric solar system. The author(s) of the Koran obviously had no clue about it. But Muslims really can’t handle the truth.
FYI says
The koran is also Theologically wrong:in koran 5:116 allah has MARY{yes that’s right,MARY} alongside Jesus and allah in what he misunderstands to be the theology behind the Christian Trinity.
allah sees a polytheism of 3 gods{=allah+MARY+Jesus}not a monotheism as it really is.
{If allah is God how come allah doesn’t understand THEOLOGY?Or Science?Or History?Or Logic?….}
muslim ‘scholars’ have no idea how laughably wrong the koran is:Logically,Theologically,Historically and Scientifically wrong.
{According to the koran,Jesus had the Gospel,Mary is in the Trinity,muhammed visited a mosque in Jerusalem ..that didn’t exist in mo’s time koran 17.1,the moon was split in two,the sun sets in a muddy pool etc}
The Astronomy is obviously 7th-8th cent too:it is obvious the author had no idea how big stars actually are{…they are not to ward off devils as the koran insists}
allah also insists he gave the Gospel to Jesus {koran 5:46}but of course the Gospel came AFTER the time of Jesus and was written down by disciples empowered by the Holy Spirit{an aspect of YHWH that allah MISSED koran 4;171:note that the denial of the Trinity is not just the denial of Jesus but also the denial of the HS}
Jesus was not involved with the Gospel personally:that is absolutely laughable.
{The Bible{Gospel+Torah} shows the PRESENCE of the Holy Spirit.
The koran shows the ABSENCE of the Holy Spirit}
But islamic “scholars” don’t see that:or that the 2 chief commandments{defined as “the WHOLE of the Law of Moses and the teachings of all the prophets” Matthew 22 v 40} and the Decalogue{Exodus20} are violated by the koran’s warped teachings,or that the Golden Rule is missing in islam{defined as being “the MEANING of the law of Moses and the teachings of all the prophets” Matthew 7 v 12}
So allah and his “prophet” and islam MISSED the whole of the Law’s purpose{= 2 chief commandments Deut6:4-9,Lev19:18}and its meaning{=the Golden Rule}
That is some achievement for allah the Arab god who desperately wants to be seen to be YHWH:in truth,we see allah is the diabolus simius Dei,muhmamed’s Sock Puppet{like baal is to YHWH the God of Israel in I kings 18 v 21}
In fact islamic ‘scholars’ are like the “prophets”of baal Elijah had to deal with.
And what is muhammed but a prophet of baal
{Al lah incidentally,evolved out of hu baal,the god of the kaaba}
mortimer says
Hofer claimed that the Koran is ‘DANGEROUS’ ???
Are Muslims saying that the 164 JIHAD VERSES are NOT ‘dangerous’ if someone practices them ???
The Koran’s 164 Jihad Verses: K 2:178-179, 190-191, 193-194, 216-218, 244; 3:121-126, 140-143, 146, 152-158, 165-167,169, 172-173, 195; 4:71-72, 74-077, 84, 89-91, 94-95,100-104; 5:33, 35, 82; 8:1, 5, 7, 9-10, 12, 15-17, 39-48, 57-60, 65-75; 9:5, 12-14, 16, 19-20, 24-26, 29, 36, 38-39, 41, 44, 52, 73, 81, 83, 86, 88, 92, 111, 120, 122-123; 16:110; 22:39, 58, 78; 24:53, 55; 25:52; 29:6, 69; 33:15, 18, 20, 23, 25-27, 50; 42:39; 47:4, 20, 35; 48:15-24; 49:15; 59:2, 5-8, 14; 60:9; 61:4, 11, 13; 63:4; 64:14; 66:9; 73:20; 76:8.
gravenimage says
So true.
John Hawk says
Islam is so very fragile, because it is obviously absurd. Can’t stand even minimal scrutiny, so its rabid followers choose murder instead of argument to defend the indefensible.
mortimer says
The Muslims making the death threats to Hofer are actually contradicting themselves, They are saying :
“DON’T SAY THE KORAN PROMOTES VIOLENCE … OR WE’LL *KILL* YOU!”
The ‘Argumentum ad baculum’ (appeal to force) is the most frequently used logical fallacy in Islam … it says: “Believe this or I will violently ATTACK you.”
keith O says
Mortimer
Have you ever thought of getting that put on a T-shirt?
I reckon it would sell pretty well, hell I’d wear it out front of a mosque!
James Lincoln says
keith O,
I think that you’d be taking a mighty big chance wearing that T-shirt outside any mosque, particularly in a muslim majority country.
Even the UK police would arrest you for a “breach of the peace”.
gravenimage says
Grimly likely on both counts, James.
Still, this *would* make a great t-shirt…
A Gnostic Agnostic says
People still unaware the Muslim Brotherhood is the (real) Deep State?
Still unaware that Muslim is the (real) Jew?
It takes a ” believer ” to ever ” believe ” the opposite of what is true,
hence the 180-degree inversion in/of Islam wherein book-worshiping Jews
pathologically scapegoat their own crimes against humanity onto others
because (the religion of) Adam can not account for his own actions,
hence blaming the woman (hijab/niqab/burqa). Islam = Nazism (root).
mortimer says
GA, your opinions are muddled and cannot be supported. You are an anti-Semite. Your Jew hatred was condemned and punished at Nuremburg. I don’t believe any Jews make an idol of the Torah, but to outsiders some veneration of the Torah may seem excessive. However, Muslims definitely make the Koran into an eternal idol. And the Black Stone is an ancient idol representing the triple goddesses. Mohammed has divine attributes inconsistent with mere humanity. It should be remembered that the Golden Rule comes from Judaism: Lev. 19.18.
Wellington says
Huh?
gravenimage says
A Gnostic Agnostic, you keep babbling about Jews here–but never make it clear what, if any, point you are trying to make. Do you believe that calling someone a Jew is an insult? Muslims certainly think so…
Michał Moś says
I wonder why it is so that when we Christians attack the Koran, we make caricatures of Muhammad, in a moment either a plane with Christians flies into the air, or a madman cries “Allah akbar” and shoots people in a shopping mall or office building, and when we, Christians, Catholics, Protestants or Eastern Christians are rotten, we must not shout. Or maybe it’s slow, but we don’t want to because we are peaceful. All in all a bit fucked up.
gravenimage says
What?
tgusa says
For those who know islam threats are irrelevant. They are only useful in opening the eyes of an uninformed person here or there. Just assume that muslims want to murder you and you will be ahead of the game and then you can carry on accordingly.
mortimer says
tgusa, I believe most people in the West are hearing the threats, assuming it is merely ‘crying wolf’, and going back to sleep.
Most Westerners do not want to believe that, in fact, the majority of Muslims want to impose strict, discriminatory Sharia law.
However, most Muslims living in the West are two-faced. They want to live in freedom themselves, but at the same time want to impose Sharia slavery on Western countries.
tgusa says
mortimer, I will go out on a limb and predict that eventually those people will wake up only to find themselves living in a very bad dream.
tgusa says
If they don’t wake up in time it will be similar to a scene from Casablanca where Rick is leaving Paris as the nazis roll in and all the Parisians are out on the street crying their eyes out.
James Lincoln says
Even Renault suggests to Rick that they join the Free French in Brazzaville. ..
Wellington says
This has to be a mistake. It must be Christians threatening to murder this Austrian politician for criticizing the Bible.
spiro says
Yeah that’s what I though it can’t be Muslim after all they have a long peaceful history
Rufolino says
True, I simply can’t get over their amazing peacefulness. It’s because they are no peaceful that, during centuries, they have achieved almost nothing.
Battle says
According to their own Koran, Moslems who disagree with Norbert Hofer should be sending their posting on Facebook, IInstagram or Twitter or send their e-mail address stating their reason for disagreement for discussion. The highly valued discussion in Islam.
The highly valued discussion in Islam.
Death threats are spewed by those who do not value discussion in Islam.
Mr.. Hofer can tell the man who called him a “son of a bitch” who will “burn in Hell,” for example “I will be happy to discuss the Koran with the ‘son of a bitch’ who will ‘burn in Hell”
Michael Copeland says
Austria evidently has a charge of “degradation of religious teachings”.
If the religious teaching commands murder can it not be discussed?
Michael Copeland says
“Allah has tasked all Muslims in Quran 9:29 to continue to attack Jews and Christians who refuse to believe in him and his messenger, Prophet Mohammed.”
Abu Qaqa, Boko Haram
kevin says
“If one day you are found dead on the street, don’t be surprised,” wrote one user. How could he be surprised if he was dead?
Wellington says
“How could he be surprised if he was dead?”
Good query. Eminently sound query. Perfectly comprehensible query.
But when dealing with Muslimthink (and so many times in our era Leftthink as well), goodness, soundness and comprehensibility are very often optional. Indeed, they are ordinarily absent.
Steve Meikle says
the most critical document as regards islam is the kortan itself. all you need to od to know what virulent filth it is is to read the thing or sit under a scholar like Mr Spencer who has.
that heaven is a paradise for rapists and gluttons? the very notion is abhorrent and not worthy of being atributed to a deity
gravenimage says
Austria: Muslims threaten to murder politician for criticizing the Qur’an
………………
Right next to this story:
“France: Three Muslim teens charged for threatening to murder high-school girl for criticizing Islam”
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2020/06/france-three-muslim-teens-charged-for-threatening-to-murder-high-school-girl-for-criticizing-islam
I’m sensing a theme here…
RichardL says
I like Norbert Hofer. He would be vice chancellor if the German media did not make the little traitor Kurz enter a coalition with the Green fascists
Anne Smith says
After the prosecution and guilty verdict on Elisabeth Sabaditch Wolf,. for her comments on Mohammed marrying a six year old, it can hardly be argued that Austria supports free speech.
RichardL says
The ruling was upheld by the highest European court. It is not only Austria.
gravenimage says
Yes–disgusting.
RichardL says
William carr, people like you frighten me. Every generation begins from nothing, is what you are saying. No culture, just the rule of the uneducated mob. But maybe it is simply that you do not read current philosophers, who argue that those not rational can be killed and that there is no right to property. But Singer and Rawls mean nothing to you and thus they can destroy morality at will. Your argument is based on education having no merit. Be your own god.
gravenimage says
Where did William Carr say this?
Carl says
Hate your brothers and sisters long enough eventually only evil will dwell in your house, hence the invitation to savages, bringing with them their selfish cruelties. The left welcomes people they hate just to hurt their own people, while the savages prove to the left that they are up to the job of creating fear, horror, and sadness. The left will be destroyed eventually by their brothers and sisters and the savages– both. Then hopefully the brothers and sisters will defend themselves from the savages. Somewhere in that mess will be Revelations, and I wouldn’t want to be the left group or the Muslim group when Jesus comes to town. This time Jesus isn’t dropping by for tea & crumpetts.
Carl says
Remember now, Jesus said that if he were of this world he would possess a SWORD. On jesus return he will rule the WORLD. Therefore he will be OF this world. Which logically means, he will be in possession of said sword. ” You don’t spit in the wind, you pull the mask off of ol’ lone ranger, and you don’t mess around with slim!”
Carl says
Correction …” You don’t pull the mask …”
gravenimage says
Here’s a follow up to this story:
“Austria: Muslim screaming “Allahu akbar” splashes gas around Vienna City Hall, threatens to burn it down”
He was apparently enraged by Norbert Hofer’s criticism of Islam…
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2020/06/austria-muslim-screaming-allahu-akbar-splashes-gas-around-vienna-city-hall-threatens-to-burn-it-down