Oppression, hatred and intolerance against gays are routine in majority-Muslim countries; sharia calls for the outright murder of homosexuals.
Aside from the persecution of gays, “for many of them, the attitudes of family and society are a much bigger problem than the fear of being persecuted,” and those attitudes played a large role in what led to the suicide of 30-year-old Sara Hegazy.
Hegazy stated that she “endured torture and sexual abuse during her detention. A successful online campaign demanding Hegazy’s release saw her released on bail in January 2018. Later that year, the young woman sought asylum in Canada, where she remained in exile until her death over the weekend.”
Meanwhile, Islamic supremacist organizations are obsessive about “Islamophobia,” which includes any criticisms of the crimes against humanity that are prescribed by sharia, such as the abuse of Sara Hegazy.
“Egyptian LGBT Activist Jailed and Tortured for Waving Rainbow Flag Commits Suicide,” by Gabrielle Reyes, Breitbart, June 17, 2020:
An Egyptian gay rights activist arrested in Cairo for raising the LGBT rainbow flag at a concert in 2017 and subsequently imprisoned and tortured has taken her own life, the Times of Israel reported on Tuesday.
Sara Hegazy’s death at the age of 30 on Sunday was confirmed by her lawyer, Amro Mohammed. “She committed suicide,” Mohammed told Agence France-Presse.
According to the Times, Egyptian police arrested Hegazy in 2017 after she raised the rainbow pride flag of the lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) community during a music concert in Cairo. The concert was put on by the Lebanese band Mashrou’ Leila, known for its openly gay lead singer. Following the public display of gay pride, considered a criminal act of “debauchery” in the majority Muslim country, Hegazy was jailed for three months.
According to the report, several LGBT activists say Hegazy told them she endured torture and sexual abuse during her detention. A successful online campaign demanding Hegazy’s release saw her released on bail in January 2018. Later that year, the young woman sought asylum in Canada, where she remained in exile until her death over the weekend.
According to Amnesty International, Hegazy was found unresponsive at her home in Canada on Sunday, alongside a suicide note which, the organization says, referred to her detention: “The experience was harsh and I am too weak to resist it. Forgive me.”
Independent news site Egyptian Streets shared on Sunday what appeared to be a photo of Hegazy’s suicide letter, and reported an expanded text: “To my siblings – I tried to find redemption and failed, forgive me. To my friends – the experience [journey] was harsh and I am too weak to resist it, forgive me. To the world – you were cruel to a great extent, but I forgive.”
Although homosexuality is not explicitly outlawed in Egypt, it is considered morally corrupt within the country’s strict Islamic society. According to the report, Egyptian authorities have previously charged suspected LGBT people with “debauchery.” The takeover of the country by current President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi, who overthrew the democratically elected Muslim Brotherhood leader Mohamed Morsi in 2013, has done little to expand the rights of LGBT people, religious minorities, and others vulnerable to radical Islamist violence.
In 2017, Egypt’s top media body issued a decree “banning the appearance of homosexuals or promotion of their slogans,” which it said was justified because “[h]omosexuality is a disease and a shame which should be hidden till it is treated, not promoted.”….
Dawne says
The torment she had to endure in Egypt must have left her very fragile. RIP
Rufolino says
“The experience was harsh. I am too weak to resist it”.
The experience was presumably over, she was in Canada, but she still suffered within.
Heartbreaking.
RichardL says
Homosexuality is illegal in Egypt; it is idiotic to argue otherwise in a country where any judge will put a gay person in prison for related or unrelated behaviour. When I lived in Egypt, the police regularly raided gay parties, arrested people, put them on trial and published their names in the government newspapers. If you are gay, you have to bribe your bewab to not go to the police. The bewabs won’t go to the police because the police will then also take bribes and it reduces what is left for the bewab. If the police don’t do anything, lovely Egyptians will. Of course she was treated like an animal in prison and in police custody. It is Egypt! My Egyptian friends mourn her.
Rob R (Brit stuck in Britainistan) says
Jeez and I thought it was supposed to be one of the more civilised ISISlamic countries.
LB says
Civilized islamic country is an oxymoron. I don’t know how you got that idea in the first place lol
gravenimage says
Thanks for that account, Richard.
For those not familiar, a “Bewab” is a kind of doorman, but often much less benign than doormen here or in Britain. The “Bewab” has been described by the BBC as a security guard, porter, enforcer of social mores and general snoop, all rolled into one
CogitoErgoSum says
Why should I care if a person is gay or not? But I also wonder why should a gay person make it a point to make sure I know that they are gay? When she wrote that she had tried to find redemption and failed I have to wonder just what did she mean by that? Was she a Muslim who tried and failed to leave Islam?
Darkness is coming says
What a stupid,dishonest and thoughtless comment it is. A woman commits suicide because she was persecuted by Islamic bullies and yet you are trying to blame her because she declared herself as a gay person. Also if you don’t care if a person is a gay or not, then why you care if she was a Muslim or not ? You are not diffirent from Islamists. Your comment is a discriminatory comment.
CogitoErgoSum says
Yet, you make no attempt to answer any of my questions. How do you know the reason the woman committed suicide?
CogitoErgoSum says
Furthermore, it makes no sense to me that a person would endure and survive torture in an Egyptian prison and then move to a country as free and as liberal as Canada and then commit suicide there. Did the move to Canada maybe cause her to be suicidal? What did the woman mean by saying she had tried to find redemption but failed? Redemption from what? Could it be that her homosexuality was as much to blame for her feelings of despair as Islam? Or could it be something else? I don’t know … but maybe you do. As far as what you think of me, again I ask why should I care? I await your explanation.
shosh shosha says
Homosexual sin is deadly and leads to unspeakable misery and eternal separation from G-d. If you ever saw the old movie about gays released in the 70’s called BOYS IN THE BAND, you could actually feel the misery in the film and then to learn later that every actor in that movie died of AIDS. Homosexual sin is an abomination to G-d and the reason He burned two huge metropolitan cities to ashes without a single blade of grass remaining. Every person died in those cities except for Lot and his family and the reason is an abomination as men from the cities gathered around Lot’s house to rape the two male angels who had come to carry out G-d’s order to destroy the cities.
CogitoErgoSum says
Shosh shosha, yes, I agree with you that committing a homosexual act is a sin but I do not believe it is an unforgivable sin that demands physical torture or the death penalty in atonement. Yes, it is still something of which God does not approve and it is still a sin but God accepeted the sacrifice of Jesus upon the cross as having been the final atonement of that sin and all sins – if those who sin are willing to accept that the penalty has been paid for them. For people not to accept that Jesus paid the price for them would be as if they were in jail and someone had paid for their release from jail but they decided they were going to stay in jail anyway. So … when this lady wrote that she had tried to find redemption but was left too weak to find it I am puzzled. Also, why did she ask people to forgive her? Forgive her for what? Was she still a Muslim when she committed suicide? Did she ultimately decide that Islam was right and she deserved to die for being a homosexual? Christianity does not teach that. So I am just trying to understand why she did what she did.
gravenimage says
CogitoErgoSum wrote:
Furthermore, it makes no sense to me that a person would endure and survive torture in an Egyptian prison and then move to a country as free and as liberal as Canada and then commit suicide there.
……………………
Actually, this is sadly common, CogitoErgoSum. There was a rash of suicides by those liberated from the Nazi death camps. I’m not sure if this is fully understood, but it seems to be that people are purely focused on survival at the time, but afterwards have leisure to realize how devastated they are by their experiences.
Here is just one article:
“The Connection Between PTSD and Suicide”
https://www.verywellmind.com/ptsd-and-suicide-2797540
There are many more.
gravenimage says
Does shosh shosha have any actual problem with this poor woman having been imprisoned and tortured under Shari’ah? It seems not.
And does he believe that only gay people are tortured under Islam? If so, he is *quite* mistaken.
And does he know that “The Boys in the Band” was fiction? It appears not. And the claim that every actor in the film died of AIDS is utterly ludicrous, and easily disproven.
Due to advances in medicine, far fewer people die of AIDS today, gay or straight. Why do I get the feeling shosh shosha considers this a bad thing?
curious says
@shosh shosha, I waited a while to respond to your odious comment, so that I could separate emotion from reason.
First, you are obviously demonstrably wrong about the 1970 version of The Boys in the Band. Even though it was made 50 years ago, some of the stars remain alive today. One died of leukemia, and another was reported to have had a heart attack. The film was also fiction, not a documentary about gay life.
Your misuse of religion is almost worse.
Leviticus uses the word “abominaton” 19 times including to describe shellfish and pork, yet I don’t see you obsessing over Red Lobster or bacon. Besides, Leviticus consists of what might be called a “uniform code” for those Jews who wear the uniform (no clothing of mixed fiber, don’t cut the corners of your beard, and so on; basically, the Hasidim) and does not apply to anyone else. Like the Amish, the followers of Leviticus have their distinctive code, but they don’t expect anyone else to follow it; to the contrary, the whole point is to be separate.
Isaiah wrote that we are all of us sinners, so when you point your finger at someone else, you have three fingers pointing back at yourself. Judge not, lest ye be judged.
Ultimately, in your comment, you speak only of and for yourself. You revealed yourself to be mean-spirited and judgmental, and to hide your faults behind a doctrine widely believed by others who do not agree with you. You seem to dwell in fiction, which you cherry-pick to find purported excuses for what you want to believe and say. You fool only yourself.
gravenimage says
Good post, curious.
DH says
Why did Sara decide, at a music concert, to raise a flag telling the World she was gay? Why should you care and why would she even raise the issue?
One of the main reasons for the existence of JihadWatch is objectively reporting on who Islamists or ordinary Muslims hate, why they hate them. Articles on the abuse, torture and murder and Muslim opinions on the matter appear here regularly. You don’t have to read them, it’s optional.
That answers the first and most irrelevant of your questions. The next question is more complex and could be asked of anyone who, as part of a group, has experienced discrimination based on that association. It should be obvious to anyone over the age of 30 that human beings are social animals. If a person is repeatedly told overtly and by example they are fundamentally flawed for one specific trait, that everybody including their own family hates them, that God despises them and has unspeakable suffering in store for them – if all that happens a person is VERY likely to come out with psychological problems. Restated, when society uniformly degrades and penalizes people with a particular trait then eventually, the victimized individual will identify himself with that trait, if only to defend themselves by being part of yet another group. If that doesn’t answer your second question then here’s some more to think about;
In the perfect nobody would be particularly interested in the details of another person’s consensual sex life, at least no more than the interest they would have for their dinner menu. And nobody would remain psychologically tortured and confused for their entire lives because 1400 years ago Muhammad’s relatives misunderstood his hallucinations for divine visions. To those who are prone to feel that gay people would be better off if they would shut up about their sexual preferences then you have to know that it was just a blip ago that, even in Western democracies, being gay meant jail time or forced commitment to the nut house.
I don’t know exactly what she was referring to when she talked about failing at redemption with her siblings. I could imagine several answers and I am sure you can as well. The answer may not make sense. Suicide letters are generally not written with the understanding they would be run past an editor, right?
CogitoErgoSum says
Yes, I can read whatever I want and I can ask whatever question I want and you can choose to respond to my questions or not if you want I still don’t know the answer to my question about caring based on your response or why my question it is irrelevant. If it is irrelevant why did you respond to it? I personally do not care whether a person is gay or not. I see no reason for me to care. It’s none of my business if a person is gay and I don’t see why someone should make it their business to inform me that they are gay. I fail to see how I am degrading anybody by thinking this way.
DH says
Good for you.
Rufolino says
If someone wants to tell you they are gay, it is likely that they trust you,, in the context of a very hostile world. It could be an indirect compliment.
There appears to be an unspoken need in most human beings that says, when we love, we want this love to be seen, noticed, and affirmed by others. Even in these so-called “tolerant” times in the West, it remains very hard for gay people to do this.
CogitoErgoSum says
I will tell you one more thing and maybe you will find this degrading to certain people or not but I have reached the point where I despise that damn rainbow flag. A rainbow results when sunlight is divided up and separated into its different component colors. That flag is not a symbol of unity but rather one of division. I don’t know if that is something people have to be over 30 to understand but I hope not. Or … maybe that is just irrelevant too.
DH says
You are ruminating.
CogitoErgoSum says
You are free to read it or not.
Richard Trank says
Also, any observation of a rainbow requires a narrow range of view.
James Lincoln says
CogitoErgoSum,
I believe your questions are sincere and legitimate.
Your postings here at Jihad Watch does not lead me to believe that you are in any way mean-spirited.
CogitoErgoSum says
Thank you, James.
LB says
I feel the exact same way about gay people. You’re gay, good for you. Why go out of your way to get in everyone’s face about it? Why the “pride” parades? What are you so proud of? The fact that you will never have kids of your own flesh and blood? That’s nothing to be proud of. Or are you proud of “breaking the norms”, “sticking it to the man”, etc.? That’s acting like a rebellious, spoiled brat just because you can. I still don’t get what’s there to be proud of.
Admittedly, gay people do get harassed and even physically assaulted because of their sexuality, especially in muslim countries which the article above proves beyond a shadow of a doubt. But if so, where are all the Western LGBTQWERTY+++ activists who scream at the top of their lungs about every single little thing that they don’t like? … What’s that? They only get upset when straight white people (men in particular) do something that they don’t like? Hmm… HMMMMMMM! It almost feels like the whole “pride” movement may have ulterior motives other than gay rights, but I can’t quite put my finger on it….
Anyway, my stance on gay people is this: Homosexuality is morally wrong (but not something that deserves any form of abuse). Why? Because ultimately it comes down to base sexual pleasure and nothing else. There is no bigger meaning behind it, just sex. That’s why gay people are the most promiscuous people on Earth because you can only derive sexual pleasure from one person for so long; anyone who’s been married for a long time can attest to this. But the reason why straight marriages work is because the sexual act is supposed to represent the peak of affection between a man and a woman, whose love and union bears the ultimate gift of their offspring. And so the couple is motivated to put aside their differences and live their lives not for themselves, but for the sake of their child for whom they are prepared to sacrifice anything.
Well, that’s the theory at least. In practice however it is becoming more and more obvious that people have grown more selfish and self-centered because the divorce rates are sky high. Fewer and fewer couples are prepared to make compromises for the sake of their children. Hell, I’ve seen parents (mothers in particular) who treat their kid like a fashion accessory and a tool to garner attention for themselves. That’s why you see all kinds of twisted shit like making toddlers and small children “trans”, injecting them with hormones of the opposite gender, teaching them sex ed in kindergarten, and other forms of child abuse that is glorified by today’s leftist mainstream society.
Sorry about this off-topic long rant, but I felt inclined to let it out.
curious says
@LB, the Gay Pride parades began in New York for the same reason the St. Patrick’s Day parades began in the same place a century earlier: the need to organize in order to overcome discrimination and persecution. Today, these are among the largest parades in NYC.
NYC’s largest is now the Puerto Rico Day Parade.
https://www.nyc.com/visitor_guide/new_york_parades.1017427/
Do you protest these parades and question why people want to celebrate being Irish or Puerto Rican?
Also, millions of gay parents have children. You should really read up on this rather than sound ignorant. The Oakland California pride parade is a family event with many gay parents and their children:
https://oaklandpride.org/
As for the relative lack of activism regarding Muslim countries, you might ask the same question of Christians: why aren’t more Christians protesting the genocide that Muslims are waging against Christians? Also, why aren’t more feminists protesting the discrimination against women in Muslim countries and Islam itself. One reason is polarization. As the historic left coalition founders over Islam, it is important to make liberal constituencies feel welcome. Unfortunately, as long as the self-styled ‘right’ remains dominated by closet cases (Larry Craig, Dennis Hastert, etc.) and expresses hostility (e.g. the Texas Republican platform), it will be difficult to find common ground and address shared issues.
LB says
Spare me. I have seen the “pride” parades in the US and they are about anything but “fighting for gay rights”.
First of all, gay people in USA are pandered to the most (second only to maybe muslims and blacks); look no further than Hollywood for proof of that statement. The idea that they need to march out there to “fight” some imaginary discrimination is dishonest at best. Second, those parades are a display of vile debauchery filled with men in S&M gimp suits (or even just flat out naked) wielding various sex toys and some are even having gay sex in front of the children on it. Very “progressive” I must say.
Also, gay people are supposed to be “tolerant”, “accepting” and “progressive”, right? Well as it just so happens, most of them turn rather…. unpleasant, shall we say, when Trump is mentioned. I wonder why? It can’t be that they are actually driven by some kind of political ideology, can it? No, no, no, that can’t be right, how silly of me. I swear, this tinfoil hat will be the death of me one day.
As for gay people having children, please explain to me how is that possible outside of adoption, surrogate mothers and artificial insemination. While we’re on the subject, since you love homosexuality so much, please explain to me how would we as a species survive if every single person on the planet suddenly turned gay. I await your detailed scientific explanation with baited breath.
And to reply to your analogy about Christians in muslim countries, unlike LGBTQWERTY+++ activists, there are no vocal Christian groups with suspicious funding in the West screaming against every single tiny thing they perceive as discrimination, and directed only at certain types of people too. So your analogy makes no sense. Good strawman attempt though.
Bottom line is, I got nothing against gay people. Do I think homosexuality as a lifestyle is wrong? Without a shadow of a doubt. Do I think they deserve to be harassed and assaulted? Absolutely not. Live and let live. But do not, I repeat, DO NOT get in my face about it with parades and propaganda bullshit. Also, STAY AWAY FROM OTHER PEOPLE’S CHILDREN!!! Grooming children into future gays is indoctrination and child abuse and should be treated as such under the law!
gravenimage says
Actually, LB, many gay people are married and have been together for many years. And you are mistaken in believing that gay people are incapable of having children.
LB says
“Many”. Anecdotal cases don’t prove anything. Find me a stat that says gay marriages are more successful that straight marriages. And keep in mind that gay marriages are much, MUCH fewer in number, so if you find something like 50% of gay marriages work compared to only 40% of straight marriages, that could mean like 1/2 gay marriages worked while 40,000,000/100,000,000 straight marriages worked (I’m exaggerating, but you get my point).
Also be mindful of the fact that gay marriages are a thing only since a few decades ago while straight marriages were practiced since the dawn of human civilization. If gay marriages (and homosexuality in general) were right and moral, they too would be practiced alongside straight marriages, don’t you agree? Or do you think that all our ancestors were just homophobic bigots?
As for the children, read my reply to curious above.
gravenimage says
Why would gay marriages have to be *more* successful than straight marriages?
But actually, in the Netherlands after ten years male gay marriages *are* more successful than straight marriages; female gay marriages slightly less so:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divorce_of_same-sex_couples#:~:text=A%20study%20tracking%20married%20couples,15%25%20for%20gay%20male%20couples.
In the US, a study from 2011 showed that different sex couples had a higher rate of divorce than same sex couples.
This is more than anecdotal evidence–it also rather undermines the claim that every gay person is promiscuous and that every gay relationship is about nothing but sex.
Yes, the numbers are small–but only because these are the numbers we have to work with.
As for the idea that banning gay marriage must be moral because it was done for centuries, you must realize that the same argument would also justify things like slavery, honor killing, and public torture. (I am not saying these things are morally equivalent, just that these would all be the result of the argument you present).
And no one has said that every person has to be gay–this is ridiculous. And you would never want everyone to practice the same profession, either.
By the way, I have never seen anyone having sex in public as part of a gay parade. Citations?
LB says
Well, Graven, according to your own link:
“Of the 580 lesbian couples who were married in 2005, 30% were divorced ten years later compared to 18% for heterosexual couples and 15% for gay male couples.”
3% difference? You’re gonna base your argument on only 3%? That’s in the Netherlands (the first ever country to legalize gay marriages) and only considering male gay marriages. Now, I don’t have the number of straight marriages during that time, but I am rather confided that it is bigger by around a factor of 100. So the percentages are almost irrelevant in that case.
Also, I’m fairly certain that Western society has abolished slavery, honor killing, and public torture long before anyone else on the planet, so I don’t see what that has to do with gay marriages and how is it barbaric to not practice it. You shouldn’t strawman like that.
And I never said that two gay people can’t love each other. A person can fall in love with anything; hell, I have a co-worker who loves his vintage BMW more than own his wife and kids! (no joke) I said that the act of homosexuality itself is nothing but a sexual fetish, because you don’t get anything out of it (namely siring the future generation, which you didn’t address in your reply) other than base physical pleasure. That makes it no different than S&M and myriad of other weird sexual fetishes. Isn’t it curious how gay people on parades and in gay clubs tend to wear latex S&M suits? Just something to think about.
I also never said that ALL gay people are promiscuous sex fiends, but the majority (the middle of Bell’s curve) tend to be. Allow me to paraphrase Milo Yiannaopoulus who is, as you probably know, gay: “I stopped employing gay people because they are a liability; you can’t ever expect them to show up at work on Monday because they were too drunk and/or coked out of their minds from partying during the weekend.” To your point, he is indeed one of the happily married gay couples, but I attribute that fact to him being right-wing rather than him being gay.
As for the evidence about open depravity on gay parades, I will not post links that lead to certain sites not suitable for the audience here on JW. But I have seen with my own eyes multiple clips and images (captured by people with their phones) where naked or near-naked gay men have their penises out in front of the children on the parade. One vile video in particular showed a dancing gay man approached by a couple (who are presumably pro LGBTQWERTY++ hard leftists) with two small children (aged no more than 5-6 y.o.), who were then prompted by the gay man to fondle his penis as he wiggled it around in front of them, which they did. Another video showed a boy (aged 8-9 y.o.), wearing nothing but a lacy see-through women’s thong and high heels, who danced like a stripper while surrounded by cheering gay men (and yes, some of them had their penises out) who even threw money at him. And so on and so forth… You can understand why such graphic scenes are buried as far away from public’s eyes as possible. You may choose not to believe me if you wish, but it won’t make it any less true.
One last thing. I noticed both you and “curious” above conveniently dodged my observation about ulterior political motives behind the LGBTQWERTY+++ movement. Understandably so. We wouldn’t want people thinking that the main gay movement is somehow bad, because that might imply being gay is bad and we wouldn’t want that. But I digress….
gravenimage says
My main point here is that gay people should not be imprisoned and tortured, even if LB thinks they are “bad”.
CommonSense says
@CogitoErgoSum your comment really made me think. I’m curious as well if Sara was Muslim till her death, so redemption would have been for being gay within Islam, or if she tried to leave Islam and redemption would have been being accepted as gay outside Islam, but that did not work out because of either her community treating her bad for leaving Islam or because her new surrounding in Canada also treated her bad for being gay. Those are very different scenarios. Would be great to have a followup post that tells up which of those apply.
What really made me think where your initial questions of (1) why we should care about someone being gay and (2) why they have to make it so public an issue?
I think these questions come from the distinction between legal right and wrong vs moral right and wrong. Western laws are roughly aligned with peoples moral rules. However, some moral rules differ between people yet we can have only one set of laws in a country. Seems that most laws come from: if moral opinion differs across different segments of society, then the action is allowed by law to respect those that think its good – unless it causes harm to other people, then it is not allowed. E.g. smoking hurts other people when they are exposed to the smoke. So it is not allowed in public buildings, but is allowed inside a private home and in open air. Some people think that smoking is morally wrong and therefore do not to it themselves. Others think it is morally OK and they like it and do it – totally legal. Nonetheless there are no smoke pride months or smoke marches. This seems to be because smokers are content with their lifestyle being legally accepted by society at large. They do not need their lifestyle to also be morally accepted by society.
The gay lifestyle is analogous. Moral opinion about it differs, but as it does not hurt other people it is legal. (I am intentionally ignoring the effect on children.) But the gay community is not content with legal equality, they want moral acceptance by society at large as well. To achieve that, gay lifestyle examples are forced into child education and into the news as often as possible. This is to make the lifestyle appear normal and therefore morally acceptable. And anyone that is voicing objections to the moral acceptability of a gay lifestyle is labeled intolerant and bigoted, and therefore morally bad. And who would give credit to a morally bad person about moral complaints? This seems to be an effective strategy. But think about it. I can simultaneously hold the believe that a gay lifestyle is morally bad and that it is perfectly legal. So based on that I will not limit anything that you can do, just not approve of it. That should be the same as believing that smoking is both, bad and legal. The key difference is that the smokers are tolerant toward the smoke critic, but gays are not tolerant toward the gay critic.
With that in mind here are your answers:
(1) In general we should not care about someone being gay or not, except when considering dating that person.
(2) Gay people push for moral acceptance of their lifestyle, which is trying to force their believes on others. That is intolerant.
gravenimage says
Egypt: Tortured, jailed gay rights activist who sought refuge in Canada commits suicide
………………
Tragic–this poor woman. God, I hate Islam.
keith O says
When I read reports like this the suspicious part of the brain kicks in.
Then I wonder, did she take her own life or did someone make the problem “go away”. This sort of thing happens quite a lot, think of Geoffrey Epstein!!! Also given the high number of devout Muslims in Canada, who would be willing to do this to win Allah’s favor,,,,,No proof,Just thinking out loud.
CogitoErgoSum says
Excellent point!
gravenimage says
This is also possible, Keith.
curious says
CogitoErgoSum, I will try to address your questions.
1) why should a gay person make it a point to make sure I know that they are gay?
The article says, “The concert was put on by the Lebanese [indie rock] band Mashrou’ Leila, known for its openly gay lead singer [Hamed Sinno].” If you had ever been to an indie rock concert, then you would know that many people wear t-shirts and wave banners to show their support for the band or other bands, and for various causes. Band members often wear t-shirts promoting other bands. As Egypt is a terribly anti-gay place, it makes sense that Sara (also gay) wanted to welcome Hamed by waving a rainbow banner. The banner did not, in itself, announce that Sara was gay, but it announced her support.
As Harvey Milk advocated in the 1970s, the single most important thing a gay person can do is to come out. Prior to Harvey Milk, most of the gay population were closeted, and discourse involved theoretical persons about whom all sorts of defamatory things could be imagined and said. After Harvey Milk, most Americans can name at least one openly gay person whom they know personally. Almost every family has openly gay cousins at least, and it affects political opinion. Senator Portman and Vice President Cheney support marriage equality even though their party does not; they also have gay kids; these facts are very likely related. The first step on the long journey from being criminals to being equal citizens was to come out. In Egypt, the gay population are barely beginning that long journey. Sara took the first step, and I feel proud of her courage, though saddened by her loss.
curious says
@CogitoErgoSum,
2) redemption
If you haven’t seen “The Shawshank Redemption” (Morgan Freeman, Tim Robbins, and Rita Hayworth), then I recommend it highly. A man suffers years imprisoned for a crime he did not commit. During a storm, he escapes through a sewer, crawling through sewage that empties into a nearby stream. The stream and the rain wash him clean, and he begins a new life. That is redemption.
Sara must have dreamed of a better life. Maybe she hoped to find a girlfriend, get married, and start a bakery & coffee shop. She got as far as Canada, where she could get legally married. Then, Canada got hit by the COVID-19 pandemic. People are told to isolate, and bakeries and coffee shops are going out of business. Also, exiled, cut off from family and friends, she would have been surrounded by Canadians who deliberately refuse to understand Islam, and insist on promoting it; I wonder if they “welcomed” her by giving her a Koran. The few Canadians who object to Islam might also object to her as a foreigner, an African (Egyptian), or for being a lesbian who waved a rainbow banner (as you and Shosha do).
She tried to find redemption, got within sight of it, but then failed and blamed herself. It saddens me.
CogitoErgoSum says
Thanks, Curious. You have some good points but I do not object to her being a lesbian (or a foreigner). The point I am trying to make is that it should not and does not matter to me if she is a lesbian (or a foreigner either). Why should I care about that? And I don’t think MY religion (Christianity) is what caused her to commit suicide either. Maybe she did not understand Christianity and, yes, in my opinion those Christians who think like the Pope and encouraged her to remain a Muslim (if they actually did do that) failed to help this woman.
curious says
@CogitoErgoSum, Thanks, I agree Christianity did not cause her to commit suicide. Even if some misguided Christians (e.g. the Pope) told her to remain Muslim, that would not be enough reason to give up completely on life.
As for whether you “should” care, probably you shouldn’t, and that isn’t the point of telling you. The point is to put a face to the name, so that when some charlatan (George Rekers, Jesse Helms) tries to fool you with lies, you will know better. They lie about an imaginary bogeyman who must be killed or incarcerated, and you think instead of Elton John, so it worked. Gay people are literally everywhere, and the more familiar Ellen and others become, the fewer people the charlatans can fool.
Besides, Sara’s banner did not say she was gay. She showed her support, but that said nothing else about her personally. Holding up a “save the whales” banner does not make you a whale.
CogitoErgoSum says
I’m not familiar with George Rekers and as for Jesse Helms, he has been dead for years. I hardly remember him but I do remember I was never a fan of his – but then too while he was a politician I never paid much attention to politics. In my younger days I preferred listening to rock music in my spare time over anything else and I considered myself to be more of a Democrat than a Republican – but it’s a different world now and I’m a different person.
CogitoErgoSum says
I still don’t know why it is important that I know whether a person is gay or not. I don’t listen to music because the singer is straight or gay. I listen to music if it is something I like to hear; if it not what I like I ignore it. I liked most of Elton John’s songs (not all) before I knew he was gay and I still like them. Whether or not a musician is gay means nothing to me – until he starts trying to brand me as a bigot if I don’t like his songs.
curious says
@CogitoErgoSum, I meant to reply here but replied above to your earlier comment, so I will copy the relevant paragraph here.
As for whether you “should” care, probably you shouldn’t, and that isn’t the point of telling you. The point is to put a face to the name, so that when charlatans (e.g. Keith O’Brien, George Rekers, Ralph Shortey, the Texas Republican Party) try to manipulate you with lies, you will know better. They lie about an imaginary bogeyman who must be killed or incarcerated, and you think instead of Elton John, so it worked. Gay people are everywhere, and the more familiar Ellen and others become, the fewer people the charlatans can fool.
gravenimage says
CogitoErgoSum, with all respect, I think the issue is more whether anyone has the right to arrest and torture someone who says they are gay.
CogitoErgoSum says
Well, maybe that damn rainbow flag triggered me but I still think my point needs to be discussed.
gravenimage says
You do realize that Islamic states do not stop at arresting and torturing gay people, even if you believe that this is fine?
curious says
@Keith O,
Thank you for your comment, I wondered the same.
Also, I wonder if the well-meaning Canadians recognized her anxiety and despair and responded by prescribing psychotropic drugs, e.g. SSRIs. Those are known for increasing the risk of suicidality. They don’t actually help, but they have been found in many cases of otherwise inexplicable suicides.
James Lincoln says
curious,
I am a physician, board certified in two specialties including family medicine. I have very carefully prescribed SSRI medication to many patients without any significant issues. All of the patients were also seeing either a clinical psychologist or social worker and were followed very closely. Some of the patients, with very significant psychiatric issues and on multiple psychotropics, were also being followed by psychiatry.
Keep in mind the following excerpts from the Mayo Clinic – remember, there is always a risk reward issue, i.e. the “side effect” of not taking the medication:
“Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) are the most commonly prescribed antidepressants. They can ease symptoms of moderate to severe depression, are relatively safe and typically cause fewer side effects than other types of antidepressants do.
Anyone taking an antidepressant should be watched closely for worsening depression or unusual behavior.
Keep in mind that antidepressants are more likely to reduce suicide risk in the long run by improving mood.”
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/depression/in-depth/ssris/art-20044825
curious says
@James Lincoln, thank you for your comment, and it is good to know that even with “many” prescriptions you have not encountered “significant issues”. If I may please point out though some data from FDA and CDC:
1) CDC reports suicide rates increased 33% from 1999 (when drug companies began widely advertising SSRIs DTC on TV) to 2017:
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db330.htm
Suicide rates are also higher than they were prior to the invention of the first SSRI, fluoxetine.
2) FDA required SSRIs carry a black box warning due to the risk of suicidality:
https://www.fda.gov/media/77404/download
This action followed similar reports from Britain.
3) Drug companies falsely advertised the drugs as “not habit forming” until FDA ordered them to stop. Huge numbers of patients described physical dependence and withdrawal syndrome which drug companies now call “SSRI discontinuation syndrome” including bizarre but consistent novel symptoms. Pharmacy errors can also cause inadvertent withdrawal. Cynically, drug companies recommended “tapering” to reduce the risk, but that merely tricks people into buying more of a product they have already decided to stop taking; in fact, the only way to alleviate withdrawal symptoms is to switch to an SSRI with a longer half life (e.g. citalopram) and then quit that. Because of the false advertising and denials by drug companies, it took years for patient groups to figure out this information.
4) The manufacturers’ prescribing information acknowledges only 10-20% of patients benefit compared to placebo; the remaining 80-90% would be better off without it. If you haven’t already, then I encourage you to review the prescribing information for each SSRI you prescribe; here is paroxetine:
https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatfda_docs/label/2008/020031s060,020936s037,020710s024lbl.pdf
Few things in medicine have 80% certainty, but the failure of SSRIs is one example.
I respect Mayo, but it would be unrealistic to expect Mayo to challenge a huge PhRMA revenue source.
Whatever Sara Hegazy tried or was given, I wish that she had found a more effective strategy to get from where she was to where she wanted to go. I wish that she were writing for WikiIslam.net, for example. Such a challenging hobby might have helped her to feel needed, and would have enabled her to use her extraordinary background to contribute. I wonder if she had any interest in learning skills that are still in demand, e.g. coding.
I see also though from some of the more hostile comments on here that she would have faced a struggle in any direction, including people telling her not to tell anyone she’s gay. People say they’re Irish (especially around St. Patrick’s Day) or Italian (all the time), Democrats or Republicans (all the time), and she can say she’s gay if she wants to. Unfortunately most of the people who accept that are also in thrall to exalting and spreading Islam, so she may have felt even more isolated.
curious says
*introduction of the first SSRI, fluoxetine. The drug had been invented earlier, but was introduced in 1986.
James Lincoln says
curious,
Thank you for your reply.
I am aware of the CDC and FDA reports.
The patients that I have initiated treatment on with SSRIs were followed very very closely for any signs of worsening of depression. I also combined the medication with counseling by either a psychologist or social worker. On rare occasions, the medication had to be discontinued.
Some patients that did not respond well to the SSRIs responded well to some of the older tricyclic antidepressants TCAs.
These are difficult cases to treat, there is some trial and error involved.
Very complex cases would necessitate a consult or referral to psychiatry, although psychiatrists are generally in short supply – and family physicians combined with psychologists or social workers help to fill the gap.
Just to be clear, I have never had a patient commit suicide due to my prescribing an SSRI. Probably because of following the patients very closely – and stopping the medication at the first signs of trouble.
The patients that do well on SSRIs find the medication to be very beneficial to their overall mood.
Again, in medicine there can be side effects for not using a particular medication. There is always a risk/benefit issue.
gravenimage says
Good exchange.
curious says
@gravenimage, as always, thank you for all of your comments. I wish the world had many more like you.
Regarding suicide after a traumatic events, another example is the Titanic. When survivors got to New York and had time to reflect on what they had been through and all they had lost, some could not continue. I imagine some Holocaust survivors may have felt the same way, having lost their families, friends, homes, and all their wealth, and faced with the prospect of trying to start over in a world where such a thing could happen; I admire those who succeeded, and I feel sad for those who could not.
I do wonder also if well-intentioned Canadians might have prescribed psychotropic drugs that are known to increase the risk of suicidality. It would be sadly ironic if she survived Islamic persecution only to be killed by well-intentioned Canadians trying to help her. And, further to Keith O’s comment, I think of what Muslims threaten to do to Aayan Hirsi Ali. By importing devout Muslims, western countries have made life extremely dangerous for genuine refugees who fled Islamic persecution.
gravenimage says
Thank you, curious. This was sadly quite common with Holocaust survivors. I had not heard about this with survivors of the Titanic tragedy, but it is does not surprise. I looked it up, and ten of those rescued from the Titanic went on to commit suicide.
And you are also right–as is Keith–that she may have been threatened by Muslims in Canada, as well.
curious says
@CogitoErgoSum, we have discussed your questions, but you have now made clear that you have a strong emotional reaction (“triggered”) to the rainbow flag, and I think that distorts your opinion on this topic. You might benefit from considering the history and context of the rainbow flag.
In 1978, gay people were using a symbol left over from the Holocaust: the pink triangle. Harvey Milk and others in San Francisco wanted something happier, so they pressed artist Gilbert Baker to design a new symbol. They were also being falsely called “unnatural”, so Baker decided the new symbol must also be “a thing of nature.” He decided on a rainbow flag with 8 stripes, each representing a different part of life as he and his friends saw it, and together representing the goal of bringing together people of all colors and backgrounds to work towards shared goals. Local activists tie dyed the original flags by hand, and they became immediately popular. To facilitate manufacturing at scale, the design changed to 6 stripes. After Harvey Milk was assassinated (along with San Francisco’s wonderful Mayor George Moscone), demand soared, and the Rainbow flag went on to become one of the most popular and recognizable symbols in the world.
Personally, I love rainbows, and I love my rainbow flags. They have helped to achieve wonderful things; for example, they helped to unite millions of people to work towards marriage equality. They make a statement of support and welcome, and in many places that helps a lot. If you are traveling through the southeastern USA and seeing many signs of hostility, a rainbow flag provides a sense of relief and invitation to a place where you can feel welcome and meet people who can advise you how to navigate the area. They say, “You are not alone.” The more these flags proliferate, the more mutual support they show. When you reach Key West or even Miami, the ubiquitous rainbow flags tell you that you found the right place.
I understand though that some people do get upset about seeing certain signs. Friends have posted different memes about “black lives matter”, but my favorite is this: if you wear a shirt that says “Save the Whales,” no one misreads that to mean that you want to kill the turtles, or even that you don’t care about turtles. Even if you believe that All Lives Matter (including whales and turtles), that is not a reason to get angry about someone pointing out that black lives matter. I happen to believe that the life of Justine Damond (a white woman murdered by Somali Muslim MPD officer Mohamed Moor while he was also being sued for assaulting another woman) mattered at least as much as the life of George Floyd, but I acknowledge both mattered. When someone says George Floyd’s life mattered, I agree and add that Justine Damond’s life mattered too.
Ultimately, getting “triggered” by symbols is counter-productive, whether an Obama sticker or a Trump hat.
curious says
*Somali Muslim MPD officer Mohamed Noor, not Moor. The Moors were also Muslim, and murdered many non-Muslims, but “Noor” is an Arabic word meaning (ironically) “light”, e.g. The Divine Light.
Secular westerners appear unable to comprehend the depth and ubiquity of Islamic conviction. Both his first and last names were expressly Islamic.
CogitoErgoSum says
Curious, I appreciate your explanation. I had no problem with the rainbow flag until the people displaying it started disrespecting the U.S. flag. Now their multi-colored flag has come to represent not the desire to become a part of my country but the goal to destroy my country – to do away with my flag and to replace it with something else. Again, I have no problem with a person wanting to be treated with respect and I do respect people who treat me and others with respect. If another man tells me he is gay because he’s physically attracted to me I’m not bothered by that. In some ways it is a compliment and I don’t get angry over it; I just let the person know I’m not gay. But when someone thinks they have to let the world know they are gay just out of pride, I’m completely disgusted by that. If a gay person wants to be a famous musician like Elton John, wearing feminine clothing and lipstick and having pink hair is not what’s important. Writing good music is what counts. Being gay does not have a thing to do with being a good musician or entertainer. It’s talent that matters and that is the message gay people like Elton John and Ellen Degeneres should be promoting. Instead we end up with cross-dressing drag queens reading books to little kids at the local library. I was pretty liberal when I was younger but some things can be taken too far and into absurdity. That’s where we are today.
Anyway, I’m trying to be tolerant but it’s getting harder and harder. I’ll stop before I go too far with my ruminations Thank again for your thought on the matter..
curious says
Thanks CogitoErgoSum. The vast majority of people disrespecting the American flag are not gay. They are mainly leftists, who are unfortunately sacrificing liberalism and gays on the altar of Islam. You might feel better about gay veterans and police groups etc. The USA rainbow flag is very popular, I’ll try to post it in hope you might prefer it to the rainbow only flag at the top of the article.
https://www.theflagshop.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/thumbnail/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/r/a/rainbow-usa-flag-std.jpg
CogitoErgoSum says
It’s okay but it’s not my flag. Mine is red, white and blue … and it’s for everybody whether gay or straight.
gravenimage says
CogitoErgoSum, I have never heard any gay people calling for the replacement of the US flag with the rainbow flag, nor can I find any reference on-line. Citations?