The U.S., Russia, Greece, the E.U., the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople Bartholomew, the Patriarch of Moscow and all Rus’ Kirill, even the left-leaning Israel-demeaning World Council of Churches and many others, have expressed various degrees of “grief and dismay” at the announcement by Turkish President Erdogan that from now on, Hagia Sophia would no longer be a museum, as the secular statesman Ataturk had made it in 1935, but would “revert” to its status as a mosque. One voice, that of Pope Francis, was not in the immediate chorus, but then as one after another of political leaders and religious groups criticized the move, the Pope at last added his voice, saying – with a pained expression on his face — that the Turkish move had “distressed” him. Was that really enough? Having been a defender of Islam, famously insisting despite all the evidence to the contrary that “authentic Islam and the proper reading of the Koran are opposed to every form of violence,” having embraced as a brother the head of Al-Azhar (and a noted antisemite), Ahmed al-Tayeb, in Abu Dhabi, the Pope could hardly be described as an Islamophobe, which would have made his objections to the “reversion”of Hagia Sophia from museum to mosque even more powerful. He could have said much more than that he was “distressed.”
Perhaps Pope Francis can, in a longer statement, sometime in the coming weeks, tell the world why he is “distressed.” Something like this, for example, would be welcome:
My thoughts go to Istanbul, and to Hagia Sophia, the most important church in Christendom for more than 900 years, from 537 to 1453, and then a mosque for 488 years, from 1453 to 1931. It was in 1935 that the Turkish state wisely made it into a museum where visitors could admire what is surely the summit of Byzantine art, and Christians and Muslims were able to share a sacred space instead of disputing over which believers should have sole possession. It was a place of openness and harmony between civilizations. Now that arrangement has been undone. There is no longer that possibility of an encounter of equals within the walls of what has been, successively, a church, a mosque, and a museum.
We worry, too, about the physical condition of the Byzantine mosaics. I have learned that five times a day, when Muslim daily prayers take place, the mosaics will be covered over by cloths. Covering and uncovering these delicate masterpieces so many times every day increases the chances of damage to them. We are fearful for their physical future. We implore the Turkish president to reconsider this decision, so that Hagia Sophia may continue to be a place for openness and fruitful encounters between Muslims and Christians, as it has been since becoming a museum in 1935.
This, or something very like this, won’t change Erdogan’s mind. But it will highlight for the world’s Catholics that something very wrong has taken place in Istanbul. And it might signal the beginning, at long last, of a change in attitude toward Islam by Pope Francis.
The most impressive response to Erdogan’s decision came from UNESCO, which is deeply concerned about any changes in status made to Hagia Sophia, a UNESCO World Heritage Site. The stern reaction of that organization is here.
The Director-General of UNESCO deeply regrets the decision of the Turkish authorities, made without prior discussion, to change the status of Hagia Sophia. This evening, she shared her serious concerns with the Ambassador of Turkey to UNESCO.
Hagia Sophia is part of the Historic Areas of Istanbul, a property inscribed on UNESCO’s World Heritage List. “Hagia Sophia is an architectural masterpiece and a unique testimony to interactions between Europe and Asia over the centuries. Its status as a museum reflects the universal nature of its heritage, and makes it a powerful symbol for dialogue,” said Director-General Audrey Azoulay.
This decision announced today raises the issue of the impact of this change of status on the property’s universal value. States have an obligation to ensure that modifications do not affect the Outstanding Universal Value of inscribed sites on their territories. UNESCO must be given prior notice of any such modifications, which, if necessary, are then examined by the World Heritage Committee.
UNESCO also recalls that the effective, inclusive and equitable participation of communities and other stakeholders concerned by the property is necessary to preserve this heritage and highlight its uniqueness and significance. The purpose of this requirement is to protect and transmit the Outstanding Universal Value of heritage, and it is inherent to the spirit of the World Heritage Convention.
These concerns were shared with the Republic of Turkey in several letters, and again yesterday evening with the representative of the Turkish Delegation to UNESCO. It is regrettable that the Turkish decision was made without any form of dialogue or prior notice. UNESCO calls upon the Turkish authorities to initiate dialogue without delay, in order to prevent any detrimental effect on the universal value of this exceptional heritage, the state of conservation of which will be examined by the World Heritage Committee at its next session.
“It is important to avoid any implementing measure, without prior discussion with UNESCO, that would affect physical access to the site, the structure of the buildings, the site’s moveable property, or the site’s management,” stressed Ernesto Ottone, UNESCO’s Assistant Director-General for Culture. Such measures could constitute breaches of the rules derived from the 1972 World Heritage Convention.
Could the Hagia Sophia now lose its World Heritage Site designation, because of Turkey’s breach of the rules governing such sites? Will the physical access to the building by non-Muslims be prevented, or severely limited, during the Five Daily Prayers, or will they be able to visit, as they do now, at any time? Will the enormous cloth coverings which the Turks intend to use to hide the Christian mosaics, so as not to offend Muslim worshippers at prayer, be both thick enough to conceal the offending Christian art, and also light enough so as not to damage those mosaics, especially if the cloths are going to be put up and taken down five times a day? How will they be affixed to the walls without damaging them? These are all questions for architects and conservators to consider. Will the Turks allow the world’s Christians to have a say, through the input of expert conservators and specialists in Byzantine art, in how those mosaics, that are the heritage of the Christian world, are to be covered, and then uncovered, so frequently, in order to minimize damage?
Could Erdogan at least concede to the world’s Christians the involvement of Western art experts in preserving the mosaics of Hagia Sophia? And if he doesn’t, UNESCO should consider removing Hagia Sophia from the list of World Heritage Sites. That removal would – as the international uproar over the building ‘s change in status has already done — damage the Turkish tourism industry, so vital a part of the economy on which Erdogan’s neo-Ottoman fantasies depend.
Charlie in NY says
Every time Erdogan acts out, I can’t help but recall President Obama’s odd praise about how much more he learned from him than from any other leader about the Middle East (meant as a hint to his essentially anti-Israel outlook) – though he never explained what it was That he learned (and for that matter, to this day Obama has never revealed the substance of his conversation with Rashid Khalidi that remains embargoed by the media).
I recognize that all your questions are rhetorical. There will be no repercussions of any substance from UNESCO, the West or what used to be known as Christendom. After all, it’s not as if Israel had done something as unhinged as granting equal religious access to all on the Temple Mount and risk unleashing the forces of an Islamic Armageddon (or at least hurting Muslim feelings). Anyway, the E.U. countries are probably terrified that any display of backbone will be met with a new influx of “refugees.” It is noteworthy that Greece has been given no support to counter recent Turkish aggressive activities in its borders. So there is no united front on the horizon.
For his part, knowing it’s a win-win for him, Erdogan will continue on in his imperious ways, looking forward to dealing a very public “Ottoman slap” to any Christian who dares object to anything he does with or to the Hagia Sophia. Should he make any concessions at all, look for them to be delivered in the condescending spirit of noblesse oblige, as befits a ruler in dealing with powerless supplicants – formerly known as dhimmis.
Without push-back, Erdogan will continue to live in his fantasy neo-Ottoman Muslim supremacist world. With push-back, maybe the vision dissolves under the harsh light of reality. One can only wonder when that time will come and what the trigger will be.
J Morgan says
The Pope’s response distresses me. He is missing a major opportunity for genuine dialogue. The Pope is letting down all of Christendom. He doesn’t fight for Christ, he is no defender of the faith. Hagia Sophia should have stayed a UNESCO museum. This is an act of Islamic “supremacy.”
Frank Anderson says
J.M, when my adopted mother died, the family stopped pretending after 39 years that I was part of the family. Their words, “Frank, we are old, we have our own families and problems; and we didn’t want you in the first place.” When my birth mother died 20 years later, I was asked to identify myself as a friend of the family at her funeral. I appreciated the candor of both groups in stating honestly their true feelings. “Take due notice thereof and govern yourselves accordingly.”
Pretending to have respect when absolutely none is present is a solid practice of deception taught and practiced for 1400 years of islam. The public reclaiming of Hagia Sophia is at least an honest statement of supremacy exactly as has been taught for all this time. Such rare statements may not change utter delusional fools like pope francis who long ago abandoned any pretense of serving Christianity in favor of bowing to islam, and many of the leaders who fall on their knees and faces to their muslim masters, but it shows to a few who will see what they have refused to see out of laziness, cowardice and pure ignorance. Truth is such a rare commodity from any devout muslim. We should appreciate seeing the truth even if it is an insult because it takes away the excuses for inaction in resistance to the ongoing plan to conquer, enslave and kill the world.
That is my opinion based on my experience.
J Morgan says
Frank, that is a heartbreaking testimony. The Pope is not as honest as your family was. He is avoiding taking a stance. I wish he would say more than, that he is distressed. He could educate the world about the significance of Hagia Sophia or even righteous anger of how the Christian artwork will be covered five times a day and that it could be damaged. All these things he could say that would be more impactful than his weak whimpers.
Frank Anderson says
J.M. I learned that the truth sometimes hurts a little in the process of setting me free. There is nothing better than confronting and dealing with the truth instead of living with lies and self-deception. I have done a pretty fair job of creating a new life that is better than it would have been if they had continued their lie. NOT ONE family member betrayed the secret of my adoption until I was 38 years old. A year later, when my adopted mother died, they were confronted with the truth and finally told their truth, freeing me to move ahead.
That was 31 years ago. We have not talked since. Life goes on and gets better with the truth. HS was stolen by conquest in 1453. Like any other structure, it can be replaced. It can be built anywhere that free people can enjoy it and say their prayers in safety, instead of suffering as sub-human slaves. God is everywhere that free people can say their thoughts without fear. Jews had to learn that the hard way when Israel was taken by the Romans.
J Morgan says
You have faced that hurtful turn of events bravely, Frank. I acknowledge the strength of character it takes to withstand this life’s bitter arrows and come out a strong person with wisdom. While nothing like what you went through, I have been estranged from certain family members for possibly ever. I have learned about the family of humanity, the community of people that life provides us with. While this can include a wide range of people across all nationalities, and there are wonderful people in this world. I’ve also found out there are certain people I’ve come across who are hostile and when these people gain in the majority of the population, life can become unbearable for everyone else. That’s what I see with Islamic supremacy and also with the illegals from Mexico who have an attitude of la Raza. It’s disappointing to me when the Pope doesn’t stand up to Islamic supremacy and stand up for Christ. You are right that it is essentially just a building and new buildings can be built. Muslims have a pattern of destroying non muslim religious sites. When do we say a resounding NO to these Islamic supremacists? For the Muslims there is no end until they rule the earth. It is up to us to thwart their selfish grand plan.
Frank Anderson says
J.M. as long as I have been writing here, (which duration I am not certain) I often cite the quote I received as a very young television fan, in the early 1950’s. I have many Catholic friends, many of whom have helped me in major ways, in addition to many other friends of many denominations and faiths. The quote is “It is better to light one candle than to curse the darkness.” We are candles in a world threatened with darkness and tyranny. We light a candle every time we help ONE person see the truth. Those candles will light others. And we continue to light more. The work is going on right now in spite of all the sell-outs, collaborators and Quislings who are betraying Western Civilization in favor of a savage criminal conspiracy.
Islam is a criminal conspiracy which matches every element for criminal prosecution under US federal law. Read United States v. Gary Greenough, 609 F.Supp 1090 (S.D. Ala. 1985), available online, to see one of the best and most concise explanations of conspiracy I have found in my research. Its claim of being a religion does not shield it from being prosecuted when all the elements are present. 1) An agreement [koran, hadith and all other documents], 2) between 2 or more people [app 1.5 billion/milliard slaves], 3) for an illegal purpose or to use illegal means for an otherwise legal purpose [world conquest, slavery and death] 4 any overt act by any one of its members in furtherance of its goals [between 250 and 1000 million killings over 1400 years].
We can make a difference every day by challenging ourselves with the question, “Who can I help see the truth today about islam?”
J Morgan says
“It is better to light one candle than to curse the darkness.” Wise quote and it reminds me of another quote that I reflect on all the time.
Welsh poet Dylan Thomas (1914–1953). “Do not go gentle into that good night”, “Rage, rage against the dying of the light”.
We can make a difference every day by challenging ourselves with the question, “Who can I help see the truth today about islam?”
That’s why I read JW, it reminds me of how serious a problem we are facing with Jihad. I can in turn, do my part to inform people where I can. I deal with this with my family member who is a die-hard liberal who virtue signals about the fact that she has a hijabi wearing woman doctor at Kaiser. However, this doctor treats her terribly and allows her to live in terrible pain. I have seen her decline in the years this doctor has treated her. She is not thriving as Kaiser likes to brag about their patients thriving. I have told her without getting racist that this doctor has no compassion for you and you need a doctor that has some empathy for you. She is finally in bad enough shape that she is seeking a new doctor now.
gravenimage says
Frank, I think you have been posting here for around four years.
Frank Anderson says
GI, the amazing thing about that is that I seem to continue to be welcome, or at least tolerated. Thank you.
GreekEmpress says
Mr. Anderson,
Your exclusion from both your adopted and biological families is their loss. I have been reading your posts for a while now, and you appear to be an exemplary person and a great lawyer—and I have learned a lot more about Islam, other than just my own family’s history from posters like you here at JW.
Frank Anderson says
G.E. there are many apparent losses in life that are actually gains. We, the vast majority of people who read and write here, teach each other. We remember, according to the President of the American Trial Lawyers Association, speaking at the first Continuing Legal Education seminar I attended after graduating from law school, “what we hear first, what we hear last and what we hear most often.”
Please forgive what some may consider a slightly crude joke my beloved uncle and father by choice #2 in sequence told about the dog who went to sleep leaving a small part of his tail on a railroad track. The poor dog did not wake up in time (hard to believe) and a train took off part of it. The dog spun around losing his head. My uncle’s lesson was “Don’t lose your head over a little piece of tail.”
Our lives, liberty, freedom and security are much more important than any building. If Hagia Sophia is “that” important, build another where it can be enjoyed in safety. Then don’t let anyone take it away. Remember the story of Isaac and the third well, Rehoboth.
gravenimage says
You are an important contributor here, Frank.
James Lincoln says
Frank Anderson,
You have my deepest sympathies for the way that you had been treated in the past by individuals in “the family.” I can’t imagine the hurt that you must’ve suffered. Somehow, you overcame.
You are a man of impeccable character – with deep knowledge and wisdom.
You have my deepest respect.
Best wishes always.
J Morgan says
+1
Frank Anderson says
James, thank you. I still have good things to do and good people to help.
Terry Gain says
+2
gravenimage says
Frank, as always, so sorry that this happened to you.
As for Turkey, yes, this is “honest”–but it is also a sign of emboldenment. As ugly–and dangerous–as Taqiyya is, it acknowledges that Dar-al-Islam at least feels it has to pretend to be semi-civilized.
It is when Muslims assume that they have no reason to be concerned if Infidels know the ugliness of Islam that they are “honest”.
Franklin P. Uroda says
When the Holy Father looks at this immense cathedral, the immediate reaction must be, IMO, “this rightfully belongs to the Catholic Church, not UNESCO.”
J Morgan says
That’s true. It was a compromise to have it as UNESCO. Better than a mosque, but this is Erdogan’s Islamic State of Turkey.
gravenimage says
Pope Francis has never claimed Hagia Sophia as a Catholic Church. It was built as an Orthodox Church.
And something can be a UNESCO site and be a working place of worship. Scores of Churches are UNESCO sites. This does not mean that UNESCO owns them.
Gabi Vlad says
Well, let’s say it: if Turks want to keep Hagia Sophia as a mosque, they must know that God is awake, God works through people and Erdogan isn’t immortal. And if Catholics & Protestants don’t know, there is a prophecy of a Greek modern Saint who says 1/3 of Turks will die, 1/3 will become Christians (most of them, remember, are old Greeks and other Christians converted BY FORCE to islam centuries ago) and 1/3 will go away in Minor Asia, and Constantinople will be Greek again. How? Don’t ask me, but as I said, God don’t sleep and works through people. We must have faith. We must have strong faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, end of story.
gravenimage says
Asia Minor and Turkey are at this point one and the same, and sadly have been for many centuries.
GreekEmpress says
St. Paisios (1924-1994) prophesied about the Turks. Also St. Kosmas Aitolos who lived (I think) during the 1700s.
I love Iblis says
My fellow Muslim Turks will leave Islam, just give some time. And about these prophecies, these are nothing but efforts to create an enemy and war. Wars are always bad, no matter why they occurs. I don’t want anyone to die. So please do not share silly prophecies that will fuel hatred among people. “Time is the medicine of everything” this is a Turkish proverb.
gravenimage says
Sadly, Turkey is 98% Muslim, and Christians and Secularists are being side-lined at best and brutalized and persecuted at worst. I wish this were not so.
And it is Erdogan who is being aggressive, not the ‘filthy Infidels’.
I love Iblis says
According to Wikipedia, at most only %81.5 of Turkey are adhere to Sunni Islam. But these Sunni Muslims are includes secularists and non-Muslim people, including me. We are legally considered as Muslims because the ID card says so. And only %10 of Turkey wants to ruled by Sharia. Which is more than %50 in Egypt and most Islamic countries.
gravenimage says
I love Iblis, I hope you are right about Turkey.
This Pew Poll has 49% of Turks saying that Shari’ah is the “revealed word of God”, even if only 12% say they want to see Shari’ah imposed there.
https://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/
James Lincoln says
Graven image,
Interesting, non-muslims from outside of Turkey have more facts regarding islam then “I love Iblis”.
I don’t mean to sound mean-spirited, just stating facts…
Terry Gain says
“There is no longer that possibility of an encounter of equals within the walls of what has been, successively, a church, a mosque, and a museum.”
With the greatest respect Mr. Fitzgerald, I prefer the feckless statement of Pope Francis that he is saddened to the Big Lie that evil, supremacist, totalitarian, violent, hateful, irrational and all conquering Islam is equal to Christianity.
There ought to be a trigger warning before such statements are made which give us time to reach for our barf buckets
gravenimage says
Terry, I have to agree. Islamic Turkey has never treated non-Muslims as equals.
Paul Wheeler says
I do not understand the whining about a cause that was lost over 500 years ago.
Hagia Sophia belongs to the Muslims by right of conquest. It is theirs to do with as they wish.
The idea that UNESCO or any non-Islamic party would have any real ability to influence events, or even really care about them is laughable on it face. UNESCO was so instrumental in preserving the Bamyan Buddha statues for posterity. I’m sure it will be equally successful with Hagia Sophia.
Kudos to Erdogan for honesty (so rare in a Muslim; he’s an outlier on this matter, at least).
gravenimage says
Paul, if this were entirely a thing of past as you believe, then Erdogan would not consider it a harbinger of renewed Islamic conquest:
“Erdogan: ‘Resurrection of Hagia Sophia” heralds “return of freedom to al-Aqsa,’ revival of Islam Uzbekistan to Spain”
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2020/07/erdogan-resurrection-of-hagia-sophia-heralds-return-of-freedom-to-al-aqsa-revival-of-islam-uzbekistan-to-spain
I love Iblis says
First, you are a bigot that thinks “Muslims are rarely honest”. You never know or had a Muslim friend in your life.
Second, Hagia Sophia belongs to all of humanity. There is no such thing as “They conquered it so they can do everything”.
Hopefully the days are coming when fanatics like you making statements that fuel enmity among people will be judged.
ronyvo says
” you are a bigot that thinks “Muslims are rarely honest”. You never know or had a Muslim friend in your life.” It is absolutely correct not to trust a Muslim. Maybe he never had a Muslim friend, OKAY I lived the first 25 years of my life with Muslims and I had many ‘friends’ of them. You consider me a bigot, when it pertains to Islam YES I am a bigot. and for a very good reason.
The case of Hagia Siophia , your defense is very weak. What do you say about the churches destruction in the Muslim countries, which happens almost on daily basis. Do they (Muslims) have the right to do that because these churches are in their countries?
with your last paragraph, the enmity you’re talking about is originated and implanted in the hearts of Muslims. Please, read the Koran. I was FORCED to study the Koran and hadiths. I know.
SAFI says
the most important church in Christendom for more than 900 years, from 537 to 1453, and then a mosque for 488 years, from 1453 to 1931
That’s still putting it way too politely in my view. It’d been a Church because that is exactly what it was built for by the people who built it and who obviously never imagined it would be used for any other purpose… whereas the only reason it ever became a Mosque was because the Muslims seized it in a bloodbath, like they’ve done to many other holy sites, starting with Mohammed subjugated the Meccans and taking over the Kaaba. By the way, while its true that the present structure, designed by architects Isidore of Miletus and Anthemius of Tralles, was indeed completed in 537, but the original Hagia Sophia which stood on the same spot had actually been built in the mid 300s (under Emperor Constantius, I think)