‘Who do they say that I am?’ are the first words of the Emir-Stein Center’s video on Isā, the Islamic version of Jesus. However, we see only misrepresentation and deflection from Sister Marianne Farina in this distasteful video about what Islam thinks regarding Jesus. We will hear throughout the video how venerated Jesus is in the Muslim community. This is far from the truth; his memory is tarnished, his earthly mission desecrated, and meaning hijacked.
Farina begins by examining Jesus’ titles in Islam: ‘Spirit from God, The Messiah, Someone blessed by God, Word of God and Prophet-Messenger of God’. The title ‘Messiah’ (which can be seen in Surah 3:45 among others) causes some theological issues for Islam. The title is used seven times in the Qur’an, and while it is not defined, is not used for anyone else. Surah 10:94 commands Muslims; ‘So, if you were in doubt concerning what we have sent down to you, so ask those who are reading the book before you; indeed, the truth came to you from your lord, so do not be of the doubters’. Thus we can look at what the Christians in the Gospel, as it existed at that time, understood regarding the meaning of Messiah. This can be seen quite clearly. Christians see Isaiah 9:6-7 as explicating the reason why Jesus is the Messiah, as it prophecies that a son will be born who is the mighty God. This contradicts the Qur’an’s Surah 112:3, ‘He neither begets nor is born’. Thus the Christian understanding of the Messiah, contradicts Islamic teaching, and Muslims are directed in the Qur’an to consult Christians about matters that are in doubt in Islamic revelation.
Marianne Farina then says that Muslims believe ‘Jesus is a prophet who was given a special message, the Gospel, Injil’. This also causes a problem for Islam. The Gospel, the truth of which is affirmed in Surah 3:3-4, disproves Islam and Muhammad by declaring that Jesus is the Son of God, which the Qur’an repeatedly denies. To make sense of this, Muslims have to argue that both the Gospel and the Torah the have been corrupted, despite no verse in the Qur’an saying this about either one, and no historical evidence of corruption. Moreover, this corruption theory means ‘The Prophet’ Isā’s entire supposed mission was a failure.
Marianne Farina then suggests that the Gospel foretold the coming of Muhammad. For a Christian to say this or even acknowledge the possibility that this argument is legitimate is mind-boggling. The idea originally comes from Surah 7:157, where Allah states: ‘Those who follow the messenger, the Gentile prophet whom they will find described for them in the Torah and the Gospel.’ This proves that the authors of this passage did not believe that the Bible was corrupted; that idea came later to try to paper over the contradiction between this statement and the Qur’an’s rejection of Christian theology. For Muslims who obey the Qur’an and consult the Gospel will discover that Jesus was not a Prophet and indeed claimed to be Lord and was crucified.
This passage also makes it incumbent upon Muslims to find Muhammad in the Bible. There have accordingly been some ridiculous attempts to find Muhammad in both Old and New Testaments, such as Deuteronomy 18:18, Song of Solomon 5:16 and John 14:6, but all fail miserably. If Sister Farina genuinely believes that Islam is also true, she should explain where she claims that Muhammad is found in the Bible. She may have meant to say that this is the Islamic belief, but the way she stated it appeared otherwise. This was surprising even given the long list of Christians in Emir-Stein Center videos who refer to the prophet of Islam as ‘The Prophet Muhammad’.
Farina goes on to say that Jesus’ teachings and ethics can be found in the Hadith, but these passages pale into insignificance next to the huge number of disgusting, immoral and, by Christian standards, Satanic, teachings of Muhammad recorded in the Hadith as well. More importantly, the passages to which Farina refers are irrelevant in comparison to Allah’s direct, perfect, unchangeable, eternal, perfectly preserved word in the Qur’an.
Sister Farina acknowledges that Islam does not believe that Jesus is God, or in the Christian concept of original sin, or therefore that Jesus is a Saviour or one who redeems humanity. Here she strikes gold without realising. Without these concepts of Jesus as he was or even claimed to be, how much of Jesus is there really in the Islamic sources at all? In the holy books of Christianity, Jesus is Lord in the flesh, come to earth to atone for mankind’s sin. So why, when he is stripped of this and presented as a mortal man, and a failure as well, does Farina still claim that Islam respects Jesus?
On the crucifixion, Farina details how Islam does not believe that Jesus was crucified, but was assumed into Paradise by Allah. Interestingly, this view does not quite match the classic Islamic view, if we are to assume that Marianne Farina places this ascension before the crucifixion. This would completely invalidate the ‘Sign of Jonah’ argument from Ahmed Deedat and Zakir Naik, but we’ll ignore this. One of Islam’s favourite non-Muslim sources when arguing against Christians, Dr. Bart Ehrman, among a unanimous field of scholars and historians, describes the crucifixion as ‘a historical certainty’.
Aside from some irrelevant quotes from famous Muslims of history, Farina’s last major statement in this video is that ‘while it is true that the Islamic tradition about Jesus differs from Catholic teaching, it is also true that we share some common beliefs and affections’. Her examples are that both religions believe in the virgin birth, both have profound respect for the mystery of God’s word among us, and both share a love for Jesus and a willingness to learn from his life and teachings.
The second and third claims are highly tendentious. They are both deceitful in the framing of the phrases ‘God’s word’ and ‘a willingness to learn from his life and teachings’. If God’s word and Jesus’ life and teachings are completely different in Islam and Christianity, how are these points of agreement? This fallacy of equivocation between Christianity’s Jesus and the historical Jesus and Islam’s Isā is usually used by Muslim speakers to attract Christians to Islam; it is shocking we see a Catholic nun employ this dangerous trick. The word of the God of Christianity and the word of the God of Islam are completely opposed to each other. I could argue that Muslims don’t even love ‘Isā’, but they certainly do not love the God in the flesh, the Jesus of Christianity.
Dude says
Luke 4:43 – “I must proclaim the good news of the kingdom of God to the other towns also, because that is why I was sent.”
If they really love Lord Jesus they would preach his message. But what they speak ain’t nothin’ like it – as far away as possible. The Medina thieves have stolen that too. The truth is for sale – they must outdo their hero, Alexander the Great! The goal.
mortimer says
In the Koran, the ‘good news’ of Isa is that he is announcing Mohammed. Isa is the maître d’ for Mohammed.
J Morgan says
Yes, this nun should stick to what she knows, presumably Jesus Christ. She is as bad as the Pope.
mortimer says
She actually doing a good job to cover a complex topic. She doesn’t endorse Islam’s view of ‘Isa’ by describing their points of view.
J Morgan says
Mortimer, I agree with the author of this article. “..we see only misrepresentation and deflection from Sister Marianne Farina..” “We will hear throughout the video how venerated Jesus is in the Muslim community. This is far from the truth; his memory is tarnished, his earthly mission desecrated, and meaning hijacked.”
She also says that, “..the Gospel foretold the coming of Muhammad.” Which is just not true. “Farina goes on to say that Jesus’ teachings and ethics can be found in the Hadith.” That is also not true. She did try to compare the differences of belief between Islam and Christianity, but she gets it wrong that Islam respects Jesus and that, “both share a love for Jesus and a willingness to learn from his life and teachings.” That is not what I have found to be true.
gravenimage says
Mortimer, this from Farina is a complete whitewash.
Greg W Smith says
The question is, what does she know? Does she not understand the Bible that she has been studying all her life, or is she hiding what she knows in order to build bridges with Islam? If the first, she is stupid, if the second, she is diabolical. What do you think, Mr. Spencer?
gravenimage says
A small point, Greg–the author of this piece is Isaac Marshall, not Robert Spencer.
Diane Harvey says
“We will hear throughout the video how venerated Jesus is in the Muslim community.”
Turn the other cheek,
Offer him your coat as well,
Love your neighbor,
Yeah, that describes Muslims, right?
Right? Well, doesn’t it?
mortimer says
The Islamic Isa is venerated because he is a perfect Muslim and he announces Mohammed. Isa also ignores or denies about 95% of all the major Christian teaching in the historic creeds.
Wellington says
A Christian defending Islam is akin to someone who is a believer in democracy all the while defending either Nazism or Marxism. In other words, a confused human being. Like this nun.
Instructive, even stunning, how mixed up so many people are about things that really matter. And comprehending that Christianity cannot possibly respect Islam as some kind of “sister religion” is most definitely a “thing” that matters. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem so to many. Like this nun.
Christians having respect for Judaism or certain other religions such as Buddhism (Bertrand Russell opined that Christianity and Buddhism are the only two major religions that developed a comprehensive, contemplative side to them and which is why they are the only two major faiths that produced an extensive monastic tradition) is understandable and defensible. By contrast, Christians having respect for Islam has wrong and ignorance written throughout. Like this nun.
curious george says
Wellington
+1
……………………………….
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I’m not sure about the former.
– Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
gravenimage says
Spot on, Wellington.
Adrijaco says
Spot on Einstein !
Against stupidity even the Gods themselves contend in vain.
Friedrich Schiller
German poet and playwright. 1759 / 1805
James Lincoln says
Seconded!
Rufolino says
It may sound too simplistic, but I found more than once that passionate apologists for Islam were in their formative years, passionately in love with a Moslem individual..
Nothing has dislodged their need to defend this Moslem person’s beliefs to which they were once devotedly connected, and to “apologise” their faith. (Most often refers to women.)
CogitoErgoSum says
So Jesus was spared death and assumed into Heaven because He was God’s Holy One. So why didn’t God do the same for Muhammad? Instead, Muhammad ate some poisoned meat and then suffered in agony for several years complaining at times that the pain made him feel as if his aorta had been cut (check out the David Wood video on this). Muhammad was a thief, a murderer, a rapist and a pedophile as well as a liar. Why in the name of Jesus can’t you see that, sister? Quit trying to make Islam seem like it’s just as good as Christianity. It is evil and it leads people away from Christ instead of toward Him. Why do you attempt to hide the truth from people? This Catholic sister is feeding poison to people that’s just as deadly as the kind that was fed to Muhammad. She tries to sugarcoat it but nevertheless she is wanting you to swallow some poison.
gravenimage says
This just shows how eager Muslims were to claim Jesus as their own.
This nun is an idiot at best.
mortimer says
Response to ‘an idiot’. I have no problem if Sister Farina is trying to describe Islamic doctrines. The Koran is an extremely anti-Christian book. It rips almost all Christianity’s essential doctrines right out of it. She should be pointing that out.
mortimer says
Sister Farina is presenting a carefully worded, non-offensive description of different views of Isa found in Islam … which she is not endorsing. Nothing wrong with that. She is supposedly trying to prepare her uninformed audience for ‘dialogue’ in which both sides say polite things and challenging comments are avoided.
I have studied the Islamic Isa and he is a deliberate distortion of the NT Jesus mostly taken from Gnosticism.
The caliph Abd al Malik demoted Jesus to an inferior to Mohammed because Jesus the Pantokrator (ruler of all things) featured on the dome of Byzantine churches was the source of Byzantine political power which he (as Pantokrator) handed to Byzantine emperors (caesars) who ruled in his name.
The fact that the Christian God allowed the Romans to rule the world was infuriating to Abd al Malik. He commanded his fabricated Koran to be read for the first time in mosques during his rule so that Arabs would be indoctrinated to hate the Roman Christians and ‘fight them to the death’ (q-t-l).
The Koranic Isa has words put into his mouth so he will endorse Abd al Malik’s religion.
mortimer says
clarification: The Islamic ‘Isa’ is mostly taken from heretical Gnostic texts and not from the NT. The Koranic ‘Isa’ contradicts almost all the essential teachings of the New Testament required for admission into the Christian faith. The Koran also contains no mention of baptism. The only purpose of John the Baptist in the Koran is not to baptise but to endorse Islam.
The Koran even gets the name of Yochanan (Jehovah is gracious) wrong and confused the Syriac letters yodh, nun and cheith which all look similar written in a row. It comes out as the crazy and meaningless name ‘Yahya’ in the Koran.
This is a further evidence that someone mined the Syriac books to create the Koran without fully understanding the Christian doctrines.
CogitoErgoSum says
Mortimer, why do you think she fails to point out that Muhammad said Jesus would return to abolish the Jizya, break all the crosses and then kill all of His followers who failed to convert to Islam? Do you see nothing wrong with that either? I call what she is doing hiding the truth and I see it as wrong. There are sins in what we do and also in what we fail to do.
mortimer says
Reply to CES: Sister Farina is clearly making a talk for Roman Catholics who are going to attend an interfaith dialogue. She is not quoting anything controversial or challenging, because interfaith dialogue avoids debate.
If you want debate or polemics, you don’t go to ID.
ID is set up to favor Muslims, because they can slip-slide and not be challenged. Sister Farina is just telling us what Muslims think and expressing that politely.
She may actually have ideas to express outside the dialogue that are more critical.
She did a great job for this purpose. Truly, there are similarities, but not very many.
It’s hard to speak on this topic so concisely as Sister Farina did. She did not want bring up textual problems. But I think she could if asked to do so.
The Koran is extremely inconsistent.
diediend says
Chritians and their modern day Christianity are also extremely anti-Christian!
gravenimage says
True, CogitoErgoSum.
CogitoErgoSum says
Diediend, I assume you are talking about the Pope and others like him who go to any length to engage in a “dialogue” with Muslims. I see a very anti-Christian attitude in the Pope. He tries to ignore the persecution of Christians by the Muslims and is always quick to blame Christians whenever the Muslims complain about being mistreated or misunderstood. I’ve had enough of good Christians being made out to be evil sinners against the Muslims when just the opposite is true.
shoehorn says
They believe he was born of a virgin but don’t believe he died on a cross? And the Koran curses
Christians for saying the Son of Mary is a son of Allah (9.30). Chrislam just aint gonna work, Sister.
mortimer says
The Koran contradicts itself. The Koranic Isa is mostly based on non-canonical, heretical texts. She is just telling you as simply as possible what Muslims say, but she only tells part of their story.
Emir-Stein’s purpose is to ‘bring people together’ by avoiding controversy and advanced textual-historical criticism … that DEMOLISH THE KORAN AND ISLAM.
The Koran is being destroyed by the historic critique and Muslims are panicking.
Keys says
Thanks for your responses on this post, mortimer, especially to CES’s question.
In regard to your comment: “The Koran is being destroyed by the historic critique and Muslims are panicking.”
Could it be that only the Islamic scholars are panicking, but the millions of Muslim non-scholars care nothing about it (and/or can never believe it) and those Muslims in power (like Erdogan) do not care about the truth, but will use Islam to hold on to their power ?
FYI says
1]’Jesus’ in the koran.muslim ‘Jesus’
The dawah folk love to tell Christians that this statement is Jesus speaking in the koran.
They often post this on their dawah booths….
“He spake: lo!I am the slave of allah,he hath given me the scripture and appointed me a prophet”
koran 19:30
This statement is not from an adult:It’s from a BABY in a crib.
{previous line..
koran 19:29
“then she{‘maryam’} pointed to him{i.e the infant in a crib}:They{i.e visitors} said:How can we speak to one who is IN A CRIB, a little boy”
From the context surah 19:22-30 you will see this is an INFANT talking.Note this muslim ‘Jesus’ has ‘the scripture’ ,knows he is appointed a prophet and tells us he is a slave of allah.This is AN INFANT IN A CRIB for pete’s sake.And of course he speaks Arabic and… is definitely not Jewish.
How indeed can one speak to an infant in a crib?HOW has he got ‘the scripture’:the Gospel came AFTER the time of Jesus?It is not as if Jesus had the Gospel…. as an infant..whilst in a crib as the koran would have us believe}
Obviously the author of the koran is putting words into the mouth of Jesus:and this remember,is not even an adult.This is all happening in a crib.
2]muhammad cannot be in the Bible,certainly not as a prophet because..
a]he is not QUALIFIED to be as he is not from the children of Israel:even the koran says the prophethood was given to the Jews{‘the children of Israel’}koran 45:16.
muhammed isn’t from the Children of Israel.muhammed was not Jewish.
muhammed cannot be in JEWISH scripture as a prophet of YHWH.
b] as a mass murderer of Jews {Abu Dawud 4390} he cannot possibly be a prophet of YHWH!
c]islam’s allah is NOT the YHWH of the Bible.The koran does NOT conform to the “law of Moses and the teachings of the prophets”{see the 2 chief commandments and the Exodus 20 decalogue:all of which are violated by the koran’s warped teachings}
d]muhammed is not a prophet of YHWH{which is IMPOSSIBLE as he doesn’t qualify since he is not from the children of Israel,he was not Jewish}
muhammed however ,could certainly be considered as a prophet of baal{allah..hubaal was the god of the kaaba}
muhammed is a FALSE PROPHET according to the BIBLE{Deuteronomy 18:20},the koran{yes that is right the koran 69:43-46 given his ‘my AORTA is cut’ statement} and by his own admission{al tabari 6:111} and the fact that his end time prophecies were seriously wrong{he said the world would end 100 years after his death,the Romans would take over the world etc}:muhammed could not have had the Wisdom to be a prophet{a gift,not something you have on your own:source is the Holy Spirit but there is no Holy Spirit in islam}and muhamed had NO CONCEPT of the point of the Exodus 20 Commandments,the promotion of which all TRUE prophets are obliged to do.
So muhammed was a FALSE PROPHET according to the Bible,the koran,his own admission and for other reasons.The Gospel does NOT foretell muhammed.
john h wilson says
Quislings are always with us.
curious george says
+1
tim gallagher says
To my mind, Islam is the complete opposite of Christianity. Islam is a violent, murderous, vicious, intolerant belief system whereas Christianity has high ideals of trying to be peaceful and tolerant. It is beyond my belief how some of these Christians try to twist things to try to tell us that Islam is somehow related to Christianity and that these totally opposite religions are actually worshipping the same God. Nothing could be further from the truth. I just think that some of these people, such as this nun, cannot face up to the truth. It is probably out of good motives, as in that they want to have a pleasant view of and attitude towards Islam and Muslims, a Pollyanna type view of everything, but it is , nevertheless, complete bullshit and could lead people astray, when people need to see Islam’s evil, extremely un-Christian ideology for what it is. That saying ,”The road to hell is lined with good intentions”, might apply to this nun’s Pollyanna-ish view of Islam and its supposed connection with Christianity. Such nonsense could definitely lead some people astray when it comes to understanding Islam’s nature.
James Lincoln says
tim,
I think that your post is “spot on”.
You have a great bullsh*t detector – probably the best here at Jihad Watch…
Terry Gain says
As I’ve said many times, Islam is the antithesis of Christianity. It is so full of evil and lacking in goodness that it doesn’t even qualify as a legitimate religion.
Hate and violence are the opposite of love and peace. Submission is the opposite of free will. Rape is the opposite of respect. A hierarchy of rights based on religion and gender is the opposite of equal rights.
Islam loves and respects Christ so much it denies His divinity and claims he faked his death. This alleged respect is nothing more than a con job. I understand why Muslims do it. I don’t understand why some Christians are so lacking in intelligence and self-respect that they fall for this bullshit.
Does this Nun believe that at end times Christ will return to earth and break the crosses and send people like her to hell? She sounds as though she has a sword at her neck.
gravenimage says
+1
tim gallagher says
Thanks for the comments, James and Terry. I have enormous respect for the bullshit detecting abilities of many of the commenters here at Jihad Watch, James, and I know that many people here have a far more detailed knowledge of Islam than I have, but thanks for the compliment anyway, but I just think that the evil and vicious nature of Islam, on display for 1400 years of murder and mayhem, is bloody obvious. I probably have an overly simplistic view of some things, very black and white.. As I often say, and as Terry says here, Christianity and Islam could not be more different. They are polar opposites in spirit. Lots of things are obviously complicated, say quantum physics, which I have occasionally tried to read up on and couldn’t understand at all, but the malignant nature of islam is pretty easy to see. I’m puzzled that many people don’t see it. I’m sure that people like this nun do try to see some good in islam and everything else, but the good isn’t there. Such people should call out evil for what it is. Luckily, from reading Robert Spencer’s “The History of Jihad”, I can see that there have always been church leaders who called Islam evil, and the enemy of Christianity, which it is and always has been. Also, I must say that I have met quite a few people with the mentality of this nun, trying to be nice to everyone,(at least I think it is probably her mentality) so I get where they are coming from. I think it is the wrong approach when faced with evil.
DavidW says
She is a heretic, pure and simple. Instead of just doing the teachings of Jesus and working to ensure the salvation of all, she appears, for some strange reason, to be trying to show how similar Islam is to Christianity (except that Islam denies Christ’s divinity, the Trinity, the Crucifixion and Resurrection). She is purposefully causing confusion and doubt among Christians.
George says
This is a Emir(Muslim) Stein video. Don’t waste your time on them.
gravenimage says
They seem pretty influential, unfortunately.
gravenimage says
Who was the Muslim Jesus? A Rebuttal of Marianne Farina
……………..
Does this fool realize that Muslims say the Gospel (“Injeel”) was “corrupted” by Christians as was as savage as the Qur’an originally? Does she realize that the main role of the Muslim “Jesus” (“Isa”) is to *kill Christians in the last days?
Then she mentions Al-Ghazali, citing his saying that Muslims should pray like Jesus–without ever noting that he crushed reason in Islam, and is known as the “destroyer of philosophy”. Ibn Arabi pushed the idea of the vicious “Prophet” Muhammed as Al-Insān al-kāmil–the “perfect man” of Islam. How lauding a caravan-raider, pedophile, slaver, rapist, and mass murderer as the perfect man fits with the Christian Christ Farina never says.
Thanks to Isaac Marshall for another fine expose.
mortimer says
Sister Farina says Muslims ‘love Jesus’, but they do refer to Jesus in the New Testament.
The ‘Isa’ of the Koran is far more the Gnostic Jesus of the heretical pseudo-gospels and other Gnostic texts. A handful of quotes from the New Testament are cited in the Koran and they are all distortions. The New Testament was one of the most available books in northern Arabia and southern Syria where the Koran was synthesized from rare documents … likely all written in Syriac.
The ‘Isa’ of Islam is little more than someone who announces the coming of the main act … Mohammed. The ‘good news’ Isa announces is not the ‘good news’ of redemption, but the ‘good news’ that Mohammed is coming to lead the Arabs in world conquest and the enslavement of conquered nations who will serve and enrich the Arabs.
The Koranic ‘Isa’ rips the heart out of Christianity and never explains what a ‘Messiah’ is or what he is supposed to do.
CogitoErgoSum says
If Isa is little more than someone who announces the coming of the main act, Muhammad, it is quite puzzling that God would spare Isa the ordeal of death and assume him directly into Heaven yet make the “main act,” Muhammad, go through the painful death that he did. Muhammad even stated at one point to his followers that he was not certain if he were going to be permitted entry into Heaven. Furthermore, the Isa of the Koran failed miserably in every way in his mission. He did not bring word of Muhammad, nor did he teach his followers about Islam and, in fact, his followers, not knowing Isa had not really died upon the cross, mistakenly spread the belief that he had risen from the dead and therefore began the religion of Christianity. How in the world Allah could reward Isa for being so incompetent is beyond me. According to the Koran we know Isa is in Heaven, but according to Muhammad himself we do not know for sure where Muhammad is.
gravenimage says
Yes–Islam is pretty incoherent about Jesus. I think Muslims are just eager to claim Jesus and the Jewish prophets as supposedly Muslim that they cared about consistency even less than usual.
Abbot Theodore Phillips says
Such foolish delusion.
Rena Nichols says
To a Blood Bought Believer and Follower of the Lord Jesus Christ, There is nothing confusing about the Word of God because The One True and Living God of the Bible doesn’t seek to deceive and confuse as does Satan, who is the author of the Koran. Allah’s (Satan’s) only true statement refers to himself as the greatest of deceivers The Pope and this nun are being deceived into desiring to come into fellowship and agreement with Islam. What does Jesus Christ and His Body have in common with Satan and demons? Not one single thing. Jesus overcame the world, the flesh and all the works of the Devil, including Islam and the Koran. Shalom in Yeshua HaMashiach.
R Thomasson says
Poor Jesus, now he has Muslim ties! It is like to say that the Dalai Lama had ties with Adolf Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pott. Pope John Paul II. was a close friend of Pablo Escobar and El Chapo Juaquin Guzman of the Sinaloa Cartel. Well Jesus, was a Jew and had not even one Arab acquaintance in his group. As for the God he believed in, it was a normative and civilized God. Certainly not a blood thirsty hazardous monster as Allah, who’s behaviour is compatible to the one of the most vicious Aztec gods.
Ronald Lorette says
Hi. In the Catholic scheme of things ,all will end up in Heaven eventually,thats basically their idea of Heaven. The pope said within the last couple of years that a person does not even have to believe at all to get to Heaven,also that if you tune in to his daily podcast that ,that deducts one day of Pergatory from your pre heaven suffering for each day listening.What a POMPOUS ASS,and totally EVIL representative of the ONE who did NO SIN,KNEW NO SIN and IN HIM WAS NO SIN.If the Catholics would be prompted to read their BIBLES they would find How HOLY,HARMLESS,UNDEFILED and SEPERATE FROM SINNERS .In the Old Testament no offering was accepted by God that had any Blemish.He is the ONLY ONE WHO could be offered as LAMB OF GOD,to be a SUBSTITUTE for those who would accept it for their SINS.From the moment Adam and EVE were decieved God allowed them to offer an animal who,s blood had to be shed as substitute till God would send HIS SON as the REAL SUSTITUTE. His BLOOD Covers OUR SINS,when we accept the offer by FAITH,not WORKS. He is the MAINTAINER of that SALVATION,seated at THE FATHERS RIGHT HAND. If HE can FAIL,then his provided SALVATION can FAIL.Most Totally impossible thought in the universe!!!
Only ONE who is called THE CAPTAIN of OUR SALVATION. If He Is not steering your LIFE,you will not end up in the proper ultimate location ,which is Heaven. He is THE WAY
,THE TRUTH,THE LIFE and says no one goes to the FATHER,but by ME. HE is THE DOOR.Only one entrance to Heaven according to Jesus and that is not ISA or mohammad.
Keys says
Hi Ronald Lorette.
The Roman Catholic Church has never taught that “all will end up in heaven eventually”.
I think the second part of the following is a valid point:
“There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.” – Fulton J. Sheen
I also think this is a valid point:
There are millions of people in the USA who hate Islam.
Hence, the Islamophobia and hate speech mania.
gravenimage says
Ronald Lorette wrote:
Hi. In the Catholic scheme of things ,all will end up in Heaven eventually,thats basically their idea of Heaven.
………………..
This is not the Catholic view of Heaven at all, Ronald.
OLD GUY says
While I’am not a religious scholar the gap between Islam and Christians is way wider then what the NUM NUN is stating.
JimInIndy says
Free will is at the heart of Christianity. Islam denies that completely. Allah controls all. Note the persistent insertion of “Allah willing.” and “If Allah wills.” No one does anything except by the will of Allah.
Wayne Roberts says
Christians say this, muslims say that; both sides rabbit on about fanciful nonsense.
The world will be a much better place if and when religious delusion is banished from the face of the Earth.
In the interim, it’s worth noting that islam is by far the most offensive, violent and distasteful of all the various religious flavours.
CogitoErgoSum says
Yeah, maybe it will be like Russia was under communism or China is today.
Wellington says
CES: You anticipated me by 13 minutes but Ben Franklin anticipated you by centuries.
Not meant at all as a criticism. Indeed, you succinctly stated the truth (as opposed to my rather verbose statement below). But I did want to extend credit to one of the wisest persons who ever lived, i.e., Benjamin Franklin (whose grave at Fifth and Arch Streets in Philadelphia I have visited many times).
Hope you are doing well. The world sure isn’t.
CogitoErgoSum says
Hi Wellington. I’m doing just fine and having great success in avoiding the ever present threat of covid-19. I have yet to meet anyone who has had it but then I don’t get out much as I am just an uncouth hick and a hillbilly who lives on a mountaintop somewhere in the middle of America. I shore do hope you are fine as frog fur yourself. Ha! Be well, friend.
gravenimage says
CogitoErgoSum, I consider you one of the most erudite posters here.
CogitoErgoSum says
Thank you, graven. I was just having some fun with what Sabri S. said to me on another thread. You aren’t so bad yourself and I always wish the best to you as well.
gravenimage says
🙂
Wellington says
As the agnostic that I am, I respectfully disagree with you, Wayne Roberts. Oh, we’re simpatico on Islam. It sucks and is a menace. It’s simply awful, both theologically and morally.
But, while I certainly fault all religions for putting forth extraordinary claims without providing extraordinary evidence (and with a plethora of threats if one does not accept the unproven extraordinary claims), some religions, and most especially Christianity and Judaism, have developed an ethical system which is a solid one for an individual to live by and for a society as a whole to live by.
Yes, a humanistic ethical system that is properly rooted (this of course would exclude Leftthink values en masse), such as that of Aristotle’s, is worthy of approbation too, but an enlightened ethical system set up religiously and not philosophically is what is easily most appealing and effective for society at large. This is why I can endorse the Judeo-Christian ethic, which works wonderfully well with democratic tenets, while denouncing the Islamic ethic which is inimical to so many aspects of a democratic and free society.
As Ben Franklin, about as shrewd a human being who ever lived and who was himself a skeptic, observed well over two hundred years ago, if man is bad with religion, imagine what he would be without it. The history of the last hundred years of mankind bitterly proves Franklin’s point. Of course, Islam would be the great exception to Franklin’s rule here. Better no religion than Islam.
I write this in a spirit of friendship and welcome any response you may be inclined to proffer.
gravenimage says
+1
Kepha says
I have a hearing issue at present. But what was this nun trying to do? Was she teaching comparative religion, and giving a description of Muslim beliefs about Jesus, or was she trying to say that the Muslim and Christian Jesuses are the same? If the latter I would certainly disagree. However, if you teach comparative religion, you have to honestly present what the other side believes.
spiro says
Maybe I missed it but is there any background on this sister
gravenimage says
Spiro, she is on the board of the “Islamophobia Studies Journal”:
https://www.crg.berkeley.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/IS-Journal-Fall2015.pdf