Tucked away in the southern Transcaucasian highlands, which is the very headwaters of the Middle East, is a small country by the name of Armenia which parallels the history of Israel in many surprising, striking ways. Armenians have inhabited this area of the world for thousands of years. They even claim Noah’s heritage as the famed Mt. Ararat dominates the skyline of Armenia’s capital, Yerevan.
In the first century B.C., the kingdom of Armenia set aside the Seleucid empire which had caused so much trouble to the small nation of Judea just to the south for well over 100 years. At this time, Armenia ruled from the Caspian to the Mediterranean until Rome squeezed them out of Syria or Cilicia in the 60s B.C. Later, Augustus Caesar used Armenia as a buffer state. It was the emperor Trajan who finally absorbed Armenia into the Roman Empire (114 A.D). A decade before Constantine took up the banner of the cross, Armenia became the first Christian nation in the world.
Though Armenian Christianity had some key theological differences with Eastern Orthodoxy, the Armenians flourished under Byzantium. However, they began to suffer at the hands of Islam during the crusades. After the conquest of Constantinople in 1453, Armenia had been under Islamic hegemony ever since – until the Ottoman Empire, along with its German ally, i.e., the Second Reich (1871-1918), collapsed in the aftermath of World War I.
The map above is an old German ethno-geographic map depicting the presumed racial distribution of Europe and the Middle East at the outset of the Great War (1914-18). The publishing of this map reflects Friedrich Ratzel’s (1844-1904) blending of social Darwinism with what he called anthrogeographie. Ratzel viewed history as a biological theater of evolutionary geopolitics where the various races expand outward looking for geographical living space – all of which reflects the eugenic health of the nation. This blending later became more infamously known as lebensraum, or “living space,” through the rise of National Socialism, with no small thanks to the likes of Karl Haushofer (1869-1946) and Nazi deputy Führer Rudolf Hess (1894-1987), who helped convert Ratzel’s anthrogeography into Mein Kampf — which Hitler wrote while in prison for the Beer Hall Putsch in Munich in 1923. Hitler argued for the racial struggle of the Aryan victims against the backdrop of what he claimed was the unjust Treaty of Versailles and the international cabal behind it all, which he said was largely corrupted by Jewish communists and capitalists.
Closely connected to this was the fact that the Nazis were well aware of the Armenian genocide, which was perpetrated by the Ottoman Turks during the Great War. In 1915, at least 1.5 million Armenians were annihilated from what is today eastern Turkey in a racial cleansing operation of genocidal proportions. This was on top of previous and subsequent massacres of Armenians that sporadically occurred 20-30 years before the war. As the Ottoman empire was contracting, shrinking, and weakening during this time, it began to take out its frustrations against its own inhabitants. The Armenians were singled out as back stabbers, recalcitrant malcontents, and rebels whose shady business practices were highway robbery. Perhaps most shocking, it was the Young Turks, the presumed so-called moderate Muslims of the day, who carried out the Armenian genocide. However, the progressivism of the Young Turks was connected to European and German “scientific” social Darwinism and its geopolitical doctrines.
Indeed, the lower left part of the map highlighted directly above shows a big blue “problem” in what is called Armenia today. It stood directly in the way of the Ottoman Empire’s Pan-Turkish plans for the upper Middle East. It was during the Great War that the western blue-striped side of Armenia was completely wiped out during the Armenian genocide. However, at the very close of the Great War in 1918, with the Ottoman Empire in a freefall, the Armenians themselves had two decisive victories against the Turks at Sardarapat and Aparan, which saved them from further annihilation. While the Turks have not been back since, they still have Pan-Turkish plans to go from the Mediterranean all the way to Baku, Azerbaijan.
Before, during and after the war, the German press, media, and books routinely characterized the Armenians as a lower race like the Jews, vultures with crooked noses, usurers, money grubbers, and traitors who were directly responsible for making the Ottoman Empire sick from a eugenic point of view. Before Israel gained its own national independence in 1948, the Germans called the Armenians “the Jews of the Orient.” This allowed the press, media, and culture of the Second Reich – all of which was largely buoyed at that time by the anti-Semitic social progressivism of German Theological Liberalism, which was based on natural theology rather than the Bible, to ignore the plight of Armenian Christians. Scientific racism, instead of leading to progress, thus evolved into justifying a “Kaiser Jihad” instead.
After the war, when the very perpetrator of the genocide, Talat Pasha (1874-1921), was assassinated by an Armenian in Berlin, the ensuing trial became national headlines. All of Germany thus became exposed to the true horrors of the Armenian Genocide – savagery that was especially macabre toward women in particular. Initially, Germans were sympathetic to the Armenians, but subsequently after the German Press went to work, the genocide was largely justified within a few years no matter how brutal it may have all been.
The Nazis were very impressed with the cleansing of the Armenians from the Turkish landscape as a new and pure Turkey was born after the Allies redrew the maps of the Middle East. The Armenian genocide thus became a geopolitical genocidal template of sorts for the Holocaust. Even the very word “genocide” itself largely comes from the German word “volkermord,” which literally means “murder of an ethnic race” that is not only deeply imbued with social Darwinism, but was also used in descriptions connected to the Armenian massacres of the 1890’s and following. Other phrases and terms such as “total annihilation” or “final goal” or “solution” to the Armenian problem/question(s) were also used. The Final Solution was thus presaged in the literature connected to the Armenian Genocide.
Both the Armenian Genocide and the Jewish Holocaust are historical tragedies which prejudicially reflect the very anti Judeo-Christian sentiments of the 20th century, which continue unabated today. While Armenia and Israel did become independent nations after their respective genocides during the tumult of two world wars, yet because of all the carnage and suffering, they both have significant populations outside their own countries, known as their “diasporas.” Both Armenia and Israel were also subjugated to smaller pieces of real estate every time the territorial maps were redrawn.
Indeed, in the early 1920’s, after Armenia had received independence from the Ottoman empire with international backing, Stalin handed over an area called the Nagorno-Karabakh of the Armenian highlands to a brand-new country that never existed before called Azerbaijan – which led to killings and constant repression of the Armenians living there. Stalin probably did so because his rise in communism largely began in Baku (1907-09), where he defended the labor movement, fomented revolution, and shook down British and Tsarist conglomerates in the rich oil fields developing there. Moreover, Stalin hated religion. He undoubtedly wanted to keep both the Christians and Muslims off balance and against each other so that the Soviets could easily divide, conquer, and rule over both.
After the collapse of the Soviet Union, the Armenians and Azerbaijanis unsurprisingly went to war in the early 1990s over the Nagorno-Karabakh, with Azerbaijan wanting to maintain what Stalin gave them. All the while, the Armenians knew it would be a disaster for them if such was/is the case, in which an independent Muslim country will dominate their lives without the iron fist of the Soviet Union to serve as a buffer between them. While occasional flareups have been routine since that time, it all suddenly become far more serious as Azerbaijan, under Turkey’s direction, broke the ceasefire agreement dating back to 1994 with the biggest attack yet seen since that time. With Armenia’s survival at stake, together with Turkey’s refusal to admit its genocidal past, the recipe for another disaster is very real.
Azerbaijan has three to four times the population of Armenia. Their strong ally, Turkey, has more than 80 million people. Armenia has perhaps three million people. Armenia is a poor, landlocked country sandwiched in between them both. The math is not good, and the odds are even worse. Nagorno-Karabakh and Armenia are both presently under martial law, as the COVID crisis has now been replaced by something far more dangerous – a real war in the very heart of the upper Middle East.
In 1939, Hitler allegedly said of the Armenians from his Bavarian alpine chalet, “Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?” Both Azerbaijan and Turkey are counting on the exact same sentiments at a time when the western elites are all hiding behind their COVID masks. Too many people approach this problem from the standpoint of either globalists or isolationists. Neither approach is correct.
Ecosse1314 says
Surely Hitler was jailed for the beer hall putsch in munich. Nowhere near Berlin
Crusades Were Right says
Correct! And not the only factual error here either. A VERY sloppy article!
Myron J. Poltroonian says
Well, then. Break out your “Blotter” and enlighten we mere mortals.
zimriel says
I’ll get started on it:
1. Stalin did not hate religion. Stalin viewed religion, especially Orthodox religion, as useful. He lightened up the Lenin / Trotsky persecutions against Russian Orthodoxy as to shore up his power-base against other Communists.
2. “In the first century B.C., the kingdom of Armenia set aside the Seleucid empire which had caused so much trouble to the small nation of Judea just to the south for well over 100 years. At this time, Armenia ruled from the Caspian to the Mediterranean until Rome squeezed them out of Syria or Cilicia in the 60s B.C.” simply makes no sense. Over the first century BC, rather, an Armenian empire formed in alliance with Mithridates of Pontus; their aim together NOT being to oppose the Greeks, but to inherit the Greeks… in a common cause against Rome. As for “Syria or Cilicia”, what?
The clumsy language and outright errors continue from there. It’s word-salad. Das ist nicht einmal falsch!
jirtu says
We are drifting from the question at hand. The question is Turkish/Azeri intention to eliminate Armenians and finish the job their grandparents left unfinished a century ago, to quote Erdogan. While the world watches.. Whoever doesn’t support the Armenian cause supports genocide. Don’t resort to subterfuge and talk about Azerbaijan’s so called territorial rights. It has no “territorial rights” in this instance and even if it did, it doesn’t mean it’s OK for it and assassin Turkey to commit genocide.
jirtu says
For packing so much truth in a single article, Mr. Musser is my new journalistic hero (I have been magazine editor since the early ’70s).
His article specially remarkable since the media–print and electronic–is packed by falsehood, ignorance, and an anti-Armenian bias. The first thing anyone learns upon reading about the Armenian/Azeri conflict is that Nagorno-Karabakh (N-K) belongs to Azerbaijan. After that it’s downhill for the Armenian side, as narrated by the media. No one points out that the Azeri “ownership” of N-K is illegal and that the Armenian land was given to the Azeris although 90 percent of the population was Armenian. In other words, the media and the “international community” consider the unjust decision of one of vilest dictators of the 20th century as fair and sacrosanct. Stalin gave the Armenian region to Azerbaijan so as too woo Turkey, the older brother of Azerbaijan. I realize that Strabo and Pliny the Elder are not household names. However, several centuries before the birth of Christ, the Greek historian wrote about N-K being in Armenia. So did Pliny the Elder (69 AD), the Roman historian. Azerbaijan was founded by the Russians in 1918. I realize these are boring old facts to mercenary “journalists” who repeat cliches without checking their veracity.
GreekEmpress says
Excellent article. Compliments to the author.
john smith says
Totally agree, Excellent article.
Crusades Were Right says
This article needs to be DELETED immediately, Mr Spencer, as it is packed with appalling howlers:
* Hitler was imprisoned for his part in the Munich “putsch” – not riots in Berlin!
* The highlighted part of the first map is the lower RIGHT part of it, not lower LEFT!
* The word “genocide” does NOT come from German at all – it comes from the GREEK “genos” (race) and the LATIN “caedere” (to kill)!
And the main thrust of it seems to be to implicate GERMANY in the Turco-Islamic conquest of Armenian land!
An embarrassment!
Ecosse1314 says
Definite problems with this article.
Crusades Were Right says
Indeed! A gift to apologists for Azerbaijani aggression!
Wellington says
Agreed, Ecosse 1314 and Crusades Were Right. Leftists and Muslims can afford to make mistakes, as they invariably will, and this will be glossed over, but those who battle against the twin insanities of Islam and modern Western Leftism cannot afford to make mistakes.
Rather like what is said in the film, “The Godfather,” to wit, women and children can afford to make mistakes; men cannot afford to make mistakes.
Crusades Were Right says
Well said, Wellington!
jirtu says
“Crusades…” tries to win points by making irrelevant corrections. Whether Hitler’s putsch was in Berlin or Munich has no relevance to the issue at hand. The etymology of “genocide” is also irrelevant as to the rightful owner of Nagorno-Karabakh. German states started to help the Ottoman Turks militarily as early as 1755 (even before the birth of Germany). Unable to find fault with the long article, the “Crusades Were Right” takes pot shots at insignificant statements. In other words, his words betray the weakness of his attempted thesis.
Ecosse1314 says
No no no. I fully support the Armenians in their struggles. An article though that makes obvious mistakes calls into question the integrity of the whole article.
jirtu says
Thank you for supporting the Armenian struggle. I am sorry to disagree with you re the rest of your comment. If a button on a well-designed shirt is loose, it doesn’t mean one has to throw away the shirt.
Ecosse, I hope Scotland becomes free again–and soon.
Crusades Were Right says
Bingo!
Crusades Were Right says
Win points? And what is the “game”? I’m just pointing out (no pun intended) that when you produce a sloppy bit of work that is ostensibly in defence of a small nation under attack, YOU ACTUALLY HELP THE ATTACKERS! “Factually incorrect” and “full of errors”, for example, are applicable descriptors of the article! “The author didn’t even know that Hitler went to prison for the Munich Putch! He said it was for rioting in Berlin! Hahahaha!” Get it?
jirtu says
Crusades etc.” re “win points”. you don’t seem to have heard of figurative speech. Most communication would come to a standstill (here’s one example) if we didn’t use figure of speech. When you say “Crusades Were Right” do you mean they were correct or they were right ideologically? Do you understand what I am pointing out (figure of speech). Re the attacker in the on-going war, everyone other than Baby Aliyev and Erdogan know who started the war. For months the man who inherited his dictatorial throne from his dad had been threatening to attack Armenia. For months, Erdogan, his defense minister, and foreign minister referred to Armenians as the “remnants of the sword”, meaning people who somehow survived the 1915 genocide and had to be eliminated. Now, get serious and don’t make references to German beer halls and etymology to win points.
Finally, people who write in upper case in the middle of the sentence are like people who laugh their own jokes.
Wellington says
I’m with you (and Ecosse 1314), Crusades Were Right. If an article posits a certain point of view, whatever that view is, but has several mistakes in it, then there is a very high likelihood that those who oppose the point of view proffered, and even those who are neutral respecting the point of view, will dismiss the article in its entirety.
Facts are the building block of truth and any sloppiness where facts are concerned, to the very extent that such sloppiness exists, will diminish the possibility that truth will prevail. Truth is a great ally and a constant friend but it demands a reasonable and defensible price—scrupulous accuracy.
gravenimage says
I do think that tightening up this generally good article and making a few corrections would help.
Michael A. says
“German states started to help the Ottoman Turks militarily as early as 1755”
They were at war with the Turks for most of their history, or did you conveniently forget about the Ottoman Hapsburg wars? It was Britain and France that allied with Turkey against Russia
And it wasnt just Germany allied with the Ottoman Empire in WW1, it was Austria-Hungary and Bulgaria. As for the Armenian genocide. There were barely any German troops present in Anatolia at the time and there was too much other ethnic cleansing (like Russians against the Jews or Austrians against Serbs) for them to care
jirtu says
You betray lack of knowledge in German history. There were many German states in 1755. Some of them did provide arms to the Turks in addition to training. They had seen the Russians (their enemies) give a bloody nose to the Turks too many times.
I believe you are making the point that how could Germans help Turkey when the Hapsburgs and the Turks were enemies. Don’t you know that Hapsburgs ruled Austria, and if some German states were friendly with the bloodthirsty Turks that was German short-sightedness..
Vladimir says
Fact is, Hitler was right about mankind being forgetful of even the most frightful massacres-especially forgetful are the people responsible for the massacres and their descendants. What’s more interesting about the phenomena is that other massacres of other peoples as part of the same policy of the Young Turks is downplayed too. Assyrians, Pontic and Anatolian Greeks, Levantine Orthodox Christians, and others besides Armenians, were killed in the hundreds of thousands.
jirtu says
Vladimir is correct. The Turks also killed the people he cites. But it’s only recently that many of the victims of Turkish atrocities have come together to condemn the genocidier country called Turkey which to this day denies committing genocide.
gravenimage says
Hitler infamously said, “who today remembers the Armenians?”. He modeled much of the apparatus of the Holocaust on the Armenian Genocide.
Wellington says
Salient and pertinent point, gravenimage. And fortunately Nazi Germany is still not around but Armenia is.
Dieks62 says
I have to dispute that small fact; having been born & bred nextdoor, apprenticed, worked & lived on German soil for shorter periods of time, I know for a fact that the old nasty fascist-Nazi soul is still alive & kicking: not so much through its people anymore now that most of the older & more inclined fascist supporting generations have mostly died off, but in the simple form of Merkel piglet, its big German industrialist collegues and the rest of the EU lemming members, who follow the same old hand-manual and once again use the ☪️ ‘dc’ as their handy tool to accomplish their dark, sinister, develish & destructive goals!
Wellington says
Dieks62: I was referencing the actual Nazi Germany, controlling all for some 12 years (1933-1945). The fact that Nazi “sentiments” still linger, and fascist sentiments in general do so as well, is a related but still different matter.
For the record, it is my conviction that modern Western Leftism has many fascistic elements about it. Merkel is a case in point.
Mason Stewart says
Hitler explicitly said he modelled his program on what Andrew Jackson did to the Indians, not what the Turks did to the Armenians
Wellington says
Mason Stewart: Explicitly? Could you provide a citation?
In any case, if Hitler said this then he was as wrong about this matter as he was wrong about so much else. Andrew Jackson, along with many other whites at the time, did not mean harm to the American Indians (indeed, Jackson himself adopted an Indian boy—don’t think Hitler adopted a Jewish boy).
The zeitgeist at that time was steeped in the idea that whites and Indians en masse were not meant to live amidst one another. Therefore, Jackson and many of his white contemporaries decided that if the Indians were placed west of the Mississippi River, which land around 1830 was (wrongly) considered not suitable for whites to settle in, then Indians could live in peace and whites could live in peace. There was NEVER meant by Jackson any kind of genocide against the Indians, contra Hitler per the Jews and the Turks per the Armenians. That the “Trail of Tears” was badly bungled by subordinates is profoundly unfortunate because it led to much suffering and death for many Indians, but the intention was far from that of what Hitler intended for the Jews and what the Turks deliberately engaged in against the Armenians. If you don’t take this into account, then truth is not the ultimate goal here but rather an agenda.
Jackson was no Hitler. Not even close. And I would appreciate a direct quote from Hitler about Jackson. My understanding is that Hitler just in general, without specifics, assumed (wrongly) that American leaders intended deliberate harm to Indians. This is belied by the fact that many statutes specifically stated that Indian land should not be considered part of new territories (examples being Kansas and Nebraska Territories created in 1854) without Indian consent. The fact that unscrupulous, lower governmental whites in direct contact with Indians were often deceitful and dreadful should not be reason to conclude that a man of honor like Andrew Jackson thought and acted the same way.
jirtu says
Revisionist nonsense by Mason Stewart. The Hitler quote has been documented. I have a book dedicated to authenticating the Hitler quote. The so-called Jackson and the Indian fable? Yeah, nowadays they are finding ovens and gas chambers in the West. Any day now, an enterprising publisher will launch a magazine for collectors of Jackson gas chamber paraphernalia strewn in the desert.
Mason Stewart says
Wellington: John Toland’s biography on him quotes Hitler as praising the “elimination” of the red skinned savages and citing it as inspiration.
jirtu: What Hitler quote? You mean the one about no one remembering the Armenian genocide? How did that mean he copied their method? The Armenian genocide was carried out mostly through death marches, the Holocaust was primarily carried out with gas chambers and extermination camps. Are you implying the Turks gassed armenians? I think you’re the one pushing revisionist history.
gravenimage says
Mason, the Turks used meticulous records, used the railways, and did as you note use death marches–all also used in the Holocaust. They also lied to the outside world and denied that the Genocide was taking place.
The use of poison gas was indeed a hideous feature of the Holocaust–but it was not the only technique used.
Wellington says
Mason Stewart: I myself stated in my 7:50 P.M. post, “My understanding is that Hitler just in general, without specifics, assumed (wrongly) that American leaders intended deliberate harm to Indians.” It was you who specifically stated in your 6:59 P.M that “Hitler explicitly said he modeled his program on what Andrew Jackson did to the Indians,” and I challenged you to provide a citation respecting Hitler referencing Andrew Jackson SPECIFCALLY. This you did not do and invoking John Toland as you did proves my assessment, not yours.
Simon says
Very pertinent comment Vladimir…Stalin also said “the death of one person is a tragedy…the death of a million a statistic” (slight paraphrase). The capacity of humankind to forget is darkest acts is fascinating.
Thanks for drawing attention to the other campaigns against their own inhabitants by the “progressive” Young Turks….
Brando says
There are some Turks who have INTEGRITY, the best is TANER AKCAM, who is one of the major experts and says it,there was an Armenian genocide.
HIS ADVANTAGE
The Turkish governement has denied access to scholars to documents, with the EXCEPTION of Taner Akçam,a TURK, even after sanitizing the archives by eliminating incriminating documents.
Akçam got a lot of documents that were in CODE, and was able to DECIPHER them.
He wrote:
1.”A Shameful Act: The Armenian Genocide and The Question of Turkish Responsibility” (2006)
2.” The Young Turks’ Crime Against Humanity: The Armenian Genocide and Ethnic Cleansing in the Ottoman Empire” (2012)
3.”Killing Orders: Talat Pasha’s Telegrams and the Armenian Genocide” (2018):
it is about the veracity of the primary source evidence of the Armenian Genocide, particularly telegrams sent by TALAT PASHAT.
It also confirms the AUTHENTICITY of the info in the book: “The Memoirs of Naim Bey: Turkish Official Documents Relating to the Deportation and the Massacres of Armenians”,
also known as the “TALAT PASHA TELEGRAMs”, book written by historian and journalist ARAM ANDONIAN in 1919.Some scholars still try to convince us it is FAKE but NOT real scholars.
Michael A. says
if im being honest the article draws a lot of comparison that are inaccurate at best. The holocaust has been beaten to death as it is
Boycott Turkey says
Very good Article I’m fed up with hearing how some people think it belongs to Azerbaijan just because the UN said so well History says it belongs to Armenians Artash needs to be recognised the UN is pro Islam and Anti Christian it’s how they base there decisions on when breaking up countries and making fake ones like Kosovo which is Serbia. Hitler said who remembers the Armenians and Erdogan is saying the same thing as Hitler hoping there will be a other genocide well there is a other genocide taking place in Artash and the world doesn’t care I have lost hope in humanity I’m fed up with this evil sick satanic cult Islam it seems the world is becoming pro Islam Russia the West just kissing Islam’s butt for oil only reason the world is silent on Azerbaijan and Turkeys war crimes is oil God knows what will happen next
Simon says
UN …..UNfit for purpose
Myron J. Poltroonian says
There seem to be a few self-anointed “Editors” commenting critically here on the information as provided by the author. Unfortunately, they were never the recipients of the wisdom of the fine woman of old New England stock who bore me. Her words were: “You will catch more flies with honey than you shall with vinegar”.
My grandparents on my fathers side emigrated to America around the turn of the last century to, as I put it, “Escape the tender mercies of the Ottoman Empire”. Here, they had three children and never taught them, nor their grandchildren to hate the sons or grandsons of those who had committed the Ottoman atrocities. All that changed for me on September 11, 2001. As we all essentially know what happened in the past, I would suggest you “Armchair Historians” turn your efforts towards the future. I’ve come to believe NATO needs a new nation on its extremities – Armenia. Look a little more closely at its strategic position: Turkey to the west, Azerbaijan to the east, Syria and Iran to the south and south east. If they became a NATO member and were invaded by any of the nations mentioned, they would be declaring war on the United States. If Russia decided to put their thumb on the scale in favor of Azerbaijan, they would be risking the same thing. We, as NATO members, have over flight authority over Turkey and if Erdogan did something stupid he’d become “Erdo-Gone”.
As to my antecedents, I was once asked in German “What” I was in München when I was stationed there. My reply was, “Armenischer, Englander, Franklander, Hollander und Scotlander”. To which, my questioner, bursting into a big smile said: “Ach. Amerikaner!” It’s a lesson I’ve never forgotten.
LR says
@Myron….Good post…I love the Amerikaner story…
Simon says
Nice one Myron…and a perfect solution to the problem.
jirtu says
A good one from Mr. Poltroonian. I wish NATO invited Armenia to join it. Pestilence such as Turkbeijan will drop their dreams of Armenian Genocide II. The biggest U,S, Embassy in the world is already in Armenia. NATO made a mistake in favoring Georgia. The latter is a unreliable, cowardly, treacherous state and a burden on NATO. Brave Armenia has integrity, ethnically and culturally westward looking, in addition it has an 8-million educated, motivated, patriotic, affluent diaspora which can be of great support to NATO if the latter puts an end to the Turkbeijan butchery.
Ibrahim Habib says
?
GreekEmpress says
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gravenimage says
Good post.
William Tyson says
“Before, during and after the war, the German press, media, and books routinely characterized the Armenians as a lower race like the Jews, vultures with crooked noses, usurers, money grubbers, and traitors who were directly responsible for making the Ottoman Empire sick from a eugenic point of view.”
Source? Regardless, the Nazis regarded Arabs and Turks as racially inferior too, so not much of a point, I don’t recall any Nazi policy on Armenians as a race.
jirtu says
When the Germans were fighting in Stalingrad on their way to the oilfields of Azerbaijan, they had to pass through Armenia. The government-controlled Turkish media was telling t the Germans that Armenians were Semites like the Jews and should be eliminated by Germans while heading to the Azeri oilfields. By the way, the so-called neutral Turkey provided chromium (needed for armament products) to Nazi Germany. Since they blurted out of Central Asia, Turks have been a curse to the world. As Victor Hugo said: Where the Turks trod, no grass grows.” Look at the headlines. Every country around Turkey is under attack by Turkey except Little Brother Azerbaijan and vassal Georgia. Ridiculous as it may sound, Ataturk supervised the publication of “history”: textbooks which claimed all cultures and all languages emanated from Turkish. Pretty impressive for Central Asian nomads who have appropriated their language (Iranian, Arabic, Armenian), alphabet (Arabic then Latin), religion (Arab), cuisine and music (Greek and Armenian) and land (Greek, Armenian) through the sword. Look at Turkish tourist posters. There’s nothing in them which is Turkish other than mosques whose architecture Turks borrowed from the Arabs and the Greeks. Guess the nationality of the greatest Ottoman architect: Sinan the Armenian.
Will Tyson says
Not a source given there, but “the so-called neutral Turkey provided chromium (needed for armament products) to Nazi Germany. ” the wording of this is ironic, given Turkey did join the war, on the side of the allies
jirtu says
Gallant Turkey joined the Allies ten days before Nazi Germany collapsed. You say I don’t cite sources for my statement that Turkish newspaper published articles during WWII which said Armenians were Semites like the Jews. They provided such evidence that Armenians are hooked noses, are good at business, and stick together. As an Armenian, I am not allowed into Turkish government or military archives. Since you are not Armenian you have a better chance to see the Turkish newspapers of the war years. By the way, showing amazing flexibility, the Turkish media changed its tune when Germany began to lose. Thus suddenly conductor Herbert von Karajan and Gen. Heintz Guderian were declared Armenian by the Pulitzer Prize-worthy Turkey’s ink-stained retches.
You say in a geopolitical context Armenia stands very weak. Is that why for 30 years Russia has given Armenia vast amounts of armaments at discount prices? Armenia is important to the world also for its location. Although small, it is the only impediment to the Turkish Turanic dream of establishing a single Turkic empire from Istanbul to the Chinese border.
Will Tyson says
jirtu, Turkey joined the Allies in March 1945, very close to the end but nearly two months not 10 days. Turkey signed the Anglo-Turkish treaty in May of 1939, putting them in Britain’s sphere of influence.
jirtu says
“Sphere of influence”. What does it mean? Do you think the Turks suddenly turned against Hitler who adored Ataturk and Turkey forgot decades of German support of Turkey…and as a fellow “unjustly treated” WWI loser? The mind reels at the fantasies you spin. What about Ankara acting as Germany’s main source for Allied intelligence? Have you seen “Five Finger Exercise”, starring James Mason, about Nazi espionage activities in Ankara during the war?
gravenimage says
Good points, Jirtu.
GreekEmpress says
jirtu,
The Turks also made a movie called Operation Cicero, like the “Five Finger Exercise” with James Mason. As you can imagine, it was a total whitewash—
jirtu says
Did the Turks call their movie :”Six Finger Exercise”? One weakness of the Mason movie was that it said nothing about the games Turks were playing.
Will Tyson says
Jirtu doesn’t seem to like what I’m saying simply because it doesn’t fit his narrative. Turkey signed the Anglo-French-Turkish Treaty in 1939, they agreed to not to intervene in the allied invasion of Vichy Syria in 1941, they received small arms shipments from Britain and they sent pilots to train there, some of whom were actually in the R.A.F. and were shot down over the channel. The Allies had their own intelligence operations there, they had dealings with both sides, duh, they were neutral, though the fact remains they ceased their trade with Germany in early 1944 and and declared war in February (not March like I mistakenly said earlier) You do know Turkey had a secular government right? Things were nowhere near as black and white as you say. If you want to know what a “pro-axis” country looks like you have examples like Spain, which didn’t even sever relations as the Reich was collapsing.
jirtu says
Tyson, I am glad you have opened door which leads to perfidy. In the ’20s and the ’30s, the French had the League of Nations mandate over Syria. The French were there supposedly until the backward A-rabs could manage to govern themselves by imitating the superior European. The Syrians wanted the French out of their country ASAP. The northernmost province of Syria was Antaqya/Antioch, adjacent to Turkey. The population of the province was 40 percent Arab, 40 percent Turk, 20 percent Armenian, Greek, and Jew. Turkey agitated the local Turks to demand Antioch be given to Turkey because “Turks were the majority.” in the province. How did Turks, who were 40 per cent, become the majority? Ankara said because the majority were Turkish speakers it followed that Antioch belonged to Turkey. Why did the majority speak Turkish? The Armenians, Greeks, and Arabs, who had been ruled by the Ottomans could speak Turkish. Thus Armenians (genocide survivors) who were forced by the Ottomans to speak Turkish, were now “Turks” according to Ankara. Turkey began a violent campaign against France. Fearing an imminent Second World War, the French agreed with Turkey that Turkey would not enter the war on the opposite side if France gave Antioch to Turkey. Fearing Turkish oppression–if not worse, the non Arabs and non-Turks left Antioch. Consider two facts: the land belonged to Syria. France had no right to give it to Turkey; although Turkey promised not to enter the war, it surreptitiously cooperated with Germany and… bravely declared war on Germany when Germany’s fate was obvious to all.. Nowadays, Erdogan is trying to penetrate northern Lebanon, has taken a large chunk of northern Syria and Iraq.and says Jerusalem belongs to Turkey and threatens some of the Gulf states for daring not to support him.
Why are Western countries silent about the carnage in N-K? Please don’t tell me because N-K belongs to Azerbaijan, according to the concept of territorial integrity. Since when have the Western countries stood for international law and justice? If they believed in the concept of territorial integrity, why did they impose its opposite concept (the “concept of self-determination) upon Yugoslavia so as to break apart that country? The West juggles these concepts depending which one is profitable to the West.
Please don’t talk about the territorial integrity of Azerbaijan. Western governments support Azerbaijan because it has oil and gas. The West will not criticize genocidier Erdogan because Turkey is a NATO member. The West will not criticize Turkey because it is worried criticism might push genocidier Turkey into the arms of Russia. Erdogan has killed countless innocent people in Syria, Iraq, and in Libya. Erdogan has threatened Greece, Erdogan has flexed his muscles in the Eastern Med while the West had gone into a convenient slumber. A bunch of cynical and lying hypocrites telling Armenians that N-K which has been part of Armenia for more than 2,000 years belongs to Azerbaijan because Stalin said so. Please be silent. When you talk about this issue, you are trying to cover up your perfidy, your greed, your hypocrisy. You have nothing to tell Armenians. You stood and watched 1.5-milllon Armenians be killed by the Turks a century ago. Most of you don’t even recognize that genocide because you don’t want to hurt your relations with Turkey. And yes, you are afraid of Turkey. Over the decades you have pumped $100 billion plus into the Turkish economy in addition to arming it. But you prefer to vacation in Antalya. You could easily threaten Erdogan with economic sanctions, dismissal from NATO…stop granting them armaments. You prefer to ignore the significance of Erdogan’s conversion of Hagia Sofia. Several times the Ottomans tried to conquer Europe (Vienna twice) and the Battle of Lepanto). Your forefathers had the integrity, honesty, and strength of character to unite and stop the Ottoman Turks. You are now a bunch of godless, cynical, materialistic, cowardly, selfish, short-sided, and suicidal people unworthy of the great people the West has produced.
GreekEmpress says
jirtu,
The Turkish movie was called “Operation Cicero” and I thought it was just another movie that hid Turkish transgressions. Historically inaccurate in my opinion.
I totally agree with you that the Western nations should support Armenia. At my house, we’re boycotting Procter and Gamble products
for investing millions in Turkey.
No more Bounty, Charmin, Dawn, etc. I’m sure it won’t hurt P&G to lose one customer, but I’m trying to get the word out.
PS President Trump mentioned the Armenians at one of his campaign rallies yesterday. Did anybody here at JW hear what he said???
Stay safe and well.
jirtu says
Thank you re Proctor and Gamble. This week I will sell my P and G shares.
Mafya says
“Both the Armenian Genocide and the Jewish Holocaust are historical tragedies which prejudicially reflect the very anti Judeo-Christian sentiments of the 20th century, which continue unabated today.” A very good analysis by Mr. Musser. Islamic organizations like ISIL are heir of the Ottoman Empire and Nazi Germany. ISIL has destroyed an Armenian Genocide monument in Syria few years ago. They both have supremacist minds that allow themselves to collaborate against Judeo-Christian values.
Chaim says
There is no such thing as Judeo-Christianity, we are two separate religions
gravenimage says
Mafya did not say there is a religion called Judeo-Christianity–she referred to Judeo-Christian values, which is quite accurate.
jirtu says
Chaim, I agree with you.
Mafya says
Chaim, where did you get that I wrote there is a religion named Judeo-Christianity ? But there is indeed Judeo-Christian values as I wrote, like believing in same book, the Old-Tastement and of course the Ten Commandments, you can’t deny it. And thanks Gravenimage.
Fred van de Bunt says
One article I red, mentioned the fact that Nagorno Karabakh is factually inhabited by some 175.000 Armenian speaking Christians, several decades now, while the land belongs de jure to Turkish speaking Muslims in Azerbaijan.
But then there is geopolitics.
Armenia, and Nagorno Karabakh, are for most part surrounded by Turkey, Azerbaijan, being Turks, and Iran, in which part of the border of Iran also the Turkish brethren from Erdogan live.
Georgia, mainly Christian, is situated to the north of Armenia, but after a recent war with Russia the relations are not good, and NATO and the EU have now influence in Georgia.
Turkey is a NATO ally, and part of the EU customs union in many respects, and large EU companies have important investments in Turkey for at least a 100 billion.
Azerbaijan has oil/gas, and a pipeline runs through Turkey, to provide the EU with these resources. The shortest way would have been through Armenia, but building the pipeline one has been going a very long way around Armenia (all the way through Georgia) since Armenia is geopolitically more connected to Russia, a geopolitical adversary of NATO and the EU.
In a geopolitical context Armenia stands very weak.