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Trotskyites: French ‘ruling elite’ is ‘whipping up an atmosphere of anti-Muslim hysteria’ in wake of jihad beheading

Oct 20, 2020 5:00 pm By Robert Spencer 38 Comments

The Leftist/Islamic alliance becomes more obvious, and more open about its goals, by the day.

“Macron promotes anti-Muslim ‘free speech’ hypocrisy after terrorist killing,” by Will Morrow, World Socialist Web Site, October 18, 2020:

Within less than 48 hours of the terrorist attack and murder of a teacher near Paris on Friday afternoon, the entire French political establishment has joined a campaign for “national unity” behind strengthened anti-Muslim laws….

The horrific murder of Paty has immediately been exploited by the administration of Emmanuel Macron to intensify its anti-Muslim campaign. The government has declared that the attack demonstrates the necessity for its already-proposed law on Islamic “separatism,” which will be introduced before parliament on December 9, and may now be further strengthened.

It includes a ban on Islamic schools where girls wear the headscarf, but no similar restrictions on Christian educational institutions, and gives the state vast powers to dissolve any association which does not adhere to “Republican values,” as determined by the prime minister….

Speaking on Friday evening, Emmanuel Macron sought to present his government as the moral defender of “Republican” values and free speech threatened by the menace of Islam. “It is not accidental that tonight, a teacher was killed by a terrorist, because he wanted to kill the Republic in its values, its Enlightenment, the possibility to make our children—wherever they come from, that they believe or do not believe, whatever their religion—into free citizens. This is our battle, and it is existential.”

He added that “they will not pass. The obscurantism and violence that accompanies it will not win,” and called on “all compatriots, at this time, to form a block, to be united without any distinction.”…

The ruling elite is seeking to use the outrage in the population at the terror attack to build support for Macron’s reactionary program, whipping up an atmosphere of anti-Muslim hysteria….

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Filed Under: Featured, free speech, Leftist/Islamic Alliance Tagged With: Abdoullakh Anzonov, Emmanuel Macron, Samuel Paty, Will Morrow, World Socialist Web Site


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Comments

  1. Emani Venkatesh says

    Oct 20, 2020 at 5:33 pm

    These stock-in-trade responses are just about beginning to fall flat of late. Hope France stays the course and looks the enemy in the eye. Whichever way the November 2020 US Presidential Elections turn out, historical and ideological forces like Islam and Anarcho-Communism will up their game to lay their destructive Seige around Liberal Democracies. France might well be one of the first countries to start calling a spade a spade and ring the death-kneel to the poker-faced, guilt-ridden and self-incriminating Woke disease of Political Correctness.

    Reply
    • mortimer says

      Oct 20, 2020 at 11:00 pm

      Well said, Emani: ‘stock-in-trade responses’ from the Trots.

      Islam has its own ‘stock-in-trade responses’, but the Leftists are not responding to those.

      Islam and Leftism don’t mix either.

      Reply
  2. FYI says

    Oct 20, 2020 at 5:46 pm

    Trotskyites eh?
    That reminds me.Now where did I put my ice pick..?

    Reply
    • mortimer says

      Oct 20, 2020 at 10:31 pm

      The Trotskyists are the same as the Stalinists, but in a hurry.

      I don’t think your joke is Christian. You should apologize.

      Reply
      • El Sid says

        Oct 21, 2020 at 2:37 am

        Apologize to who?
        I wasn’t aware that you have to be a Christian to comment on this website.
        I didn’t think the joke was hilariously funny but then I’m only a cultural Christian who later became a godless atheist and moreover l’m a Brit so I tend towards darker humor.
        As for tolerance of other religions, faced with the kind of intolerance that resulted in a teacher being decapitated, rather than an ice pick, my fingers itch for a flamethrower.

        Reply
      • FYI says

        Oct 21, 2020 at 6:03 am

        @mortimer

        No no mr mortimer.

        As I explained{patiently} to you before, i will not apologise to you for having a sense of Humor.

        “I don’t think your joke is christian”.what on Earth has Christianity got do with it?
        Who appointed you the Judge and expert on Christianity anyway?
        It has NOTHING to do with Christianity and I have never claimed to be a holy joe.
        I am not in any church and technically not even in any religion.

        I have no reason to apologize.Did you miss the bit about Free Speech mr mortimer?
        I am exercising my Free Speech. You seem to have aproblem with Free Speech.Your reference to Trotskyists being the same as the Stalinists but in a hurry:well that’s not very socialist of you is it mr mortimer?You insulted Stalinists didnt you.
        Perhaps you should apologize.Do you even get the Irony?

        Well at least you got the Historical reference which is some achievement.A shame you are completely devoid of any capacity to understand the
        power of Satire and Humor

        Grow up mr mortimer.You are being obtuse and predictably humorless and do not understand the power of satire.

        I’m sure you’ll be chipped soon enough:and anyway who says you are a Christian mr mortimer?

        Say,do you think you’ll pass the Test of Matthew 7 v 21,Matthew 7 v 13

        You don’t know do you:You don’t know you will qualify as a Christian do you?

        Reply
        • mortimer says

          Oct 21, 2020 at 11:29 am

          Soliciting murder is a crime.

        • gravenimage says

          Oct 21, 2020 at 10:51 pm

          Mortimer, this is dark humor–referring to Trotsky’s end–but *not* a solicitation to murder.

      • FYI says

        Oct 21, 2020 at 1:05 pm

        Show me where i solicited murder!!!

        Are you for real?

        Right:since you are obtuse.I see I have to explain it to you.

        It was a Visual Metaphor joke.Symbolically it means that Trotskykites always have an axe to grind ..so I would like to display an axe as a VISUAL METAPHOR cue?

        It has nothing to do with ‘soliciting murder’:What lunacy!!

        It had no idea you were that obtuse!

        I noticed you couldn’t answer my request to confirm how you are qualified to say YOU are a Christian.

        So Your move.

        PROVE IT.PROVE YOU QUALIFY mr mortimer.PROVE YOU SATISFY THE CRITERIA
        And then you will be in a position to talk about being a Christian to me.

        Give me an answer.

        You know you can’t!So your position is untenable.

        Reply
      • guenter says

        Oct 21, 2020 at 10:44 pm

        u better should not believe every lie ur master spencer tells here. all trotskyte and other far left groups in france did join the anti-islamic demonstration. and they will back the new anti-islamic laws in parliament- as always.. melenchon from the biggest leftwing party had a clearly speech on the demonstration. have the guts to ask ur master why,instead of telling this, he did quote an american website from one small irrelevant sect who dont has a branch in france, but hardly 1 dozen friends there. nowhere in the world they do represent “THE” trotskytes (which are split into several different groups); espec. not in france. seems that nobody here even realised,that he quoted no leftwing statements from france, but a singular one from USA .

        Reply
        • gravenimage says

          Oct 21, 2020 at 11:04 pm

          Not too surprised that Communist guenter decided to show up here.

          His claim that *all* Trotskyite and other Communist groups were protested against Islam is pretty implausible–is he claiming that Will Morrow and the other Communists at the World Socialist Web Site–cited here–were also out protesting? Just grimly laughable.

          And we always hear this–that all of these Communists guenter doesn’t like are–somehow–not *real* Communists…

          And how is this a lie? There is a link directly to the Communist web site.

  3. Wellington says

    Oct 20, 2020 at 6:08 pm

    Western Leftism is the newest totalitarian ideology. Islam is arguably the oldest totalitarian ideology (at least still around). Hence, how fitting that these two malevolent ideologies are temporarily allies, though should their designs prove successful in the West they will thereafter attempt to rip each other apart.

    Consider the Nazi-Soviet Non-Aggression Pact of August 1939 as an example of how there truly is no honor among thieves. And thievery is surely a characteristic of both Western Leftism and Islam—and what is most stolen by these two miscreant ideologies is the best that the human spirit can produce when freedom accompanied by wisdom, moral intelligence and proper knowledge are present.

    Reply
  4. Michael Copeland says

    Oct 20, 2020 at 6:10 pm

    Does Will Morrow know what is taught in Islamic schools?

    Reply
  5. gravenimage says

    Oct 20, 2020 at 10:37 pm

    Trotskyites: French ‘ruling elite’ is ‘whipping up an atmosphere of anti-Muslim hysteria’ in wake of jihad beheading
    ………………….

    Right–how *dare* anyone take the *beheading* of a teacher and this threat to freedom of speech seriously? After all, the Communists are fine with it…

    Reply
    • guenter says

      Oct 22, 2020 at 6:00 am

      @ gravenimage
      my favourite pseudo-intellectual as stupid as always. i quote:
      “His claim that *all* Trotskyite and other Communist groups were protested against Islam is pretty implausible–is he claiming that Will Morrow and the other Communists at the World Socialist Web Site–cited here–were also out protesting? Just grimly laughable.

      And we always hear this–that all of these Communists guenter doesn’t like are–somehow–not *real* Communists…

      And how is this a lie? There is a link directly to the Communist web site.”
      ——————————————————————————————-
      finally learn reading, my child. when will u go to school?
      i wrote about the french left groups who joined the protests in france and informed u that the wsws he quoted,, with different views than the others, is in the USA, not in france. even with other views they could hardly all afford a quick plane for joining a demo in france.
      thel lie was not the link (while the better half of the article about macrons violations on free speech he left out) ,but all the informations he didnt give about france and the different groups there and that they always gave their support in parliament for anti-islamic laws.- what i wrote was not misunderstandable. you only twist anything around with the intention to provoke me, right? go and wash ur mouth.

      Reply
    • gravenimage says

      Oct 22, 2020 at 8:05 pm

      guenter

      @ gravenimage
      my favourite pseudo-intellectual as stupid as always (sic). i (sic) quote:
      “His claim that *all* Trotskyite and other Communist groups were protested against Islam is pretty implausible–is he claiming that Will Morrow and the other Communists at the World Socialist Web Site–cited here–were also out protesting? Just grimly laughable.

      And we always hear this–that all of these Communists guenter doesn’t like are–somehow–not *real* Communists…

      And how is this a lie? There is a link directly to the Communist web site.”
      ——————————————————————————————-
      finally (sic) learn reading, my child. when will u (sic) go to school?
      i (sic) wrote about the french (sic) left groups who joined the protests in france (sic) and informed u (sic) that the wsws he quoted,, with different views than the others, is in the USA, not in france (sic). even (sic) with other views they could hardly all afford a quick plane for joining a demo in france (sic).
      ………………………………

      Some like French Communist Fabien Roussel did indeed join one of the “Je Suis Samuel” marches, which is a good thing–but the idea that if one cannot afford to fly to France to join a protest that one has to instead whip up fake Muslim victimhood as Communist Will Morrow here has done is just ludicrous.

      After all, I was unable to fly to France, and I am not doing this.

      More:

      thel (sic) lie was not the link (while the better half of the article about macrons violations on free speech he left out) ,but all the informations (sic) he didnt (sic) give about france (sic) and the different groups there and that they always gave their support in parliament for anti-islamic laws.- what i (sic) wrote was not misunderstandable.
      ………………………………

      Here’s more on Islamo-Leftism in France:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamo-leftism

      Then there was Roger Garaudy, French Communist who converted to Islam.

      More:

      you only twist anything around with the intention to provoke me, right? go and wash ur (sic) mouth.
      ………………………………

      I really don’t care if guenter feels “provoked” or not by my exposing his vicious claptrap.

      Reply
      • guenter says

        Oct 22, 2020 at 9:44 pm

        laughed my ass off, @gravenimage. being unable to refute just one sentence of mine, u come up with the 50y old conversion of roger garaudy, who had several conversions in his life, and his starting Point was the Stalinist French CP. u cant compare him with the nowadays French leftwing, the article was about—

        . as always, u have no clue what u talk about. same than Wellington, who blabbered that trotskytes are the same than stalinists- without any proof of course. did he ever read 1 book of trotsky (and understand it)? probably not. does he know the practise of all the many different trot Groups? surely not. so he cant judge that subject.

        since the Age of talkshows and social media, every nonsense-clown gives an opinin about everything he dont know anything about.. you are one of them. and in the past, People like mortimer who never knew´d an answer, felt shame for their lack of knowledge. i can only pity all of u irrational and hateful creatures.

        Reply
        • gravenimage says

          Oct 22, 2020 at 11:01 pm

          guenter wrote:

          laughed my ass off, @gravenimage. being (sic) unable to refute just one sentence of mine, u (sic) come up with the 50y old conversion of roger (sic) garaudy (sic), who had several conversions in his life, and his starting Point (sic) was the Stalinist French CP. u (sic) cant compare him with the nowadays French leftwing, the article was about—
          …………………..

          Actually, the link I cited gives a pretty good oversight of the Red/Green alliance.

          More:

          . as (sic) always, u (sic) have no clue what u (sic) talk about. same than (sic) Wellington, who blabbered that trotskytes (sic) are the same than (sic) stalinists (sic)- without any proof of course. did (sic) he ever read 1 book of trotsky (sic) (and understand it)? probably (sic) not. does (sic) he know the practise of all the many different trot (sic) Groups? surely not. so (sic) he cant judge that subject.
          …………………..

          How often have we seen *this* claim? That if only we knew more about the horrors of Communism that we would fall in love with it. (Muslims say the same about Islam). So sorry–that isn’t going to happen. Both myself and Wellington know a great deal about both the theory and bloody, dismal history of Communism.

          The main difference between Stalin and Trotsky–besides Stalin having been in power–is Trotsky’s theory of “permanent revolution”–which has obviously never worked anywhere.

          What guenther does not understand is that few Anti-Jihadists want to live under the barbarism of Communism, any more than they want to live under the barbarism of Shari’ah.

          Then, the idea that you have to follow the tedious infighting of Trotskyite groups in order to be allowed to comment on Communism is absurd.

          Why aren’t people clamoring to move to North Korea, Cuba, or Venezuela? guenter doesn’t want to think about it…

          More:

          since (sic) the Age of talkshows and social media, every nonsense-clown gives an opinin (sic) about everything he dont (sic) know anything about.. you (sic) are one of them. and (sic) in the past, People like mortimer (sic) who never knew´d (sic) an answer, felt shame for their lack of knowledge. i (sic) can only pity all of u (sic) irrational and hateful creatures.
          …………………..

          Actually, it is guenther using Jihad Watch to spew his sad Communist propaganda.

          And Mortimer is one of the most knowledgeable posters here–he knows *far* more about the savage texts of Islam than guenther here–and, as important, actually spends his time opposing Jihad and Shari’ah.

          And no–opposing the horrors of totalitarianism, be it Communism or Islam, is neither irrational nor hateful.

  6. eduardo odraude says

    Oct 20, 2020 at 11:18 pm

    Reply
    • Clifford Fodor says

      Oct 21, 2020 at 1:00 am

      This sounds too good to be true. A Muslim in France just recently killed a teacher over a cartoon drawing of Mohammed. Is a Muslim really going to listen to you tell him all the disgusting things Mohammad did? Besides that, Muslims don’t have non-Muslim friends unless they are trying to convert them to Islam.

      Reply
      • gravenimage says

        Oct 21, 2020 at 11:22 pm

        Grimly true, Clifford.

        There *have* been some Muslim who have left Islam, and I am glad–but this is not something we can count on.

        Reply
    • James Lincoln says

      Oct 21, 2020 at 8:13 am

      eduardo,

      Thanks for the link, one of David Wood’s best. The video that he references is:

      “Muhammad: The White Prophet with Black Slaves (David Wood)”

      Reply
  7. BegrensEuropa! says

    Oct 21, 2020 at 4:33 am

    It just occurred to me that Islam is doing what has been called ‘perception management’ by the US Department of Defense. Islamic terrorism is simply part of perception management, at the same time distracting from it be presenting acts of terrorism as a religious duty. An adapted definition could be: “actions to convey and/or deny selected information and indicators to non-muslim audiences to influence their emotions, motives, and objective reasoning as well as to intelligence systems and leaders at all levels to influence official estimates, ultimately resulting in foreign behaviors and official actions favorable to the originator’s objectives. In various ways, perception management combines truth projection (propaganda), operations security (secrecy), cover and deception (artificial fog, e.g. cloak as a religion), and psychological operations (influencing a target audience’s value system, belief system, emotions, motives, reasoning, or behavior).” The whole thing is intertwined with islamic self-perception management. We see many of these elements in operation in the killing of the history teacher. E.g. Mohammed is central to islamic theology (especially its anti-Christian theology), so criticism or ridicule of Mohammed is to be stopped. The terrorist act of stopping ridicule or critique is hailed as an act of faith and has excellent credentials. Didn’t Mohammed himself not encourage a critic – Ka’b bin Al-Ashraf – to be killed and that after the beheading Mohammed himself yelled, “Allahu Akbar (Allah is greatest).”

    Reply
  8. Gourdhead says

    Oct 21, 2020 at 6:42 am

    I hope this is real and permanent for France’s sake.

    Reply
  9. Giacomo Latta says

    Oct 21, 2020 at 9:40 am

    It is Islam that must be banned, banned because it promotes things that are odious and that have no place in a democratic society with respect for human rights. Banning hijabs and the like is merely rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic.

    Reply
    • gravenimage says

      Oct 21, 2020 at 11:23 pm

      Mostly we need to cut off the huge invasion of Muslims into the West.

      Reply
  10. OLD GUY says

    Oct 21, 2020 at 11:55 am

    France may have seen the light. Islam is the enemy of state and all non-islamic people. It it not hard to find the truth about islam’s hate and violence against all who oppose or disbelieve the teachings of Muhammad.

    Islam is not going to change, Islam wants to change you and your countries laws to support Islam at the cost of your freedoms and in many cases your LIFE.

    Reply
  11. guenter says

    Oct 21, 2020 at 2:05 pm

    what mr. spencer does shamelessly hide here from his readers, is, that he didnt quote “THE” trotskytes -some thousands or tenthousands in france-, but only the smallest irrelevat sect among them, with hardly a few dozens members there, while the 2 trotskyte parties who made it into the french parliament, did always support laws against hijab and joined anti-islamic demonstrations, for charlie hebdo and so on. mr. spencer, a real manipulator, seems to lie here with intention. ANY of the several trot groups around the world does distance themselves from the one he quoted. of course he knows that his dumb followers dont know.

    Reply
    • gravenimage says

      Oct 22, 2020 at 11:42 pm

      More from guenter:

      what (sic) mr. spencer (sic) does shamelessly hide here from his readers, is, that he didnt (sic) quote “THE” trotskytes -some thousands or tenthousands (sic) in france (sic) -, but only the smallest irrelevat (sic) sect among them, with hardly a few dozens members there, while the 2 trotskyte (sic) parties who made it into the french (sic) parliament, did always support laws against hijab and joined anti-islamic demonstrations, for charlie hebdo (sic) and so on. mr. spencer (sic), a real manipulator, seems to lie here with intention.
      ………………………

      The idea that any one Trotskyite group is *the* official Trotskyite group is ridiculous, of course, Trotsky did not give his seal of approval to any one of these outfits.

      Then, his pretending that Robert Spencer is somehow lying by directly citing a Trotskyite group makes no sense at all.

      More:

      ANY of the several trot (sic) groups around the world does distance themselves from the one he quoted. of course he knows that his dumb followers dont (sic) know.
      ………………………

      Really? What Trotskyite groups are distancing themselves from this group? Of course, guenter does not cite any of them.

      In fact, if guenter *really* had a problem with this group, he would contact them himself and tell them how they have gotten Trotsky and Communism so very, very wrong–but of course he has not.

      And why not? Contact information is available at the link, above. If guenter is too lazy to find it, I have it for him here:

      https://www.wsws.org/en/special/pages/contact.html

      I won’t be holding my breath, though…

      Reply
      • guenter says

        Oct 23, 2020 at 8:28 am

        actually i didnt intend to return to the sick postings of nonsense-girl gravenimage, but yesterday i overlooked this Little gem from her:

        Really? What Trotskyite groups are distancing themselves from this group? Of course, guenter does not cite any of them.
        ————————————————————————————————-
        this would be to timetaking and make no sense, to mention 30 Groups alone from Germany and maybe same as much from the USA, where u dont know any of them anyway. for Insiders this is an old Story that this Group he quoted Labels any other Marxist Group as anticommunist, CIA-agents, and not any single other group wanna work together with them.

        In fact, if guenter *really* had a problem with this group, he would contact them himself and tell them how they have gotten Trotsky and Communism so very, very wrong–but of course he has not.

        how she wanna know that? she always claim things which she cant know. sure i had personal discussions with them Long ago and broke them up. written critics of mine they didnt print.

        so is her lack of knowledge in any subject she babbles about. somewhere she claimed that the iranian tudeh-party was aligned with mossadegh. in opposite, they helped to overthrow his govtm cause he was Independent and didnt give a license to USSR to own iranian oil.
        then she claimed that komalah`s Opposition against the Mullahs dont Count, cause it was only a regional kurdish Group. but as i had already said, they are since decades now part of the nationwide worker communist Party of spencer-praised mina ahadi, who´s hyperactive struggle against the islamic Regime cant be denied. opposite to gravenimage, spencer didnt Claim that she does that only to establish a dictatorship of her Party.

        why does People not move to the countries she mentioned? not because they are socialist, as they Claim, but because they are not socialist. kim jong un is a Fascist, and maybe thats why he and trump have a good understanding when they meet.
        but this will be over her head to understand.

        rational arguments make no sense among such fellows here, who´s only resource and lecture might be breitbart.
        otherwise she had since Long understood, how silly it is to blame me for communist Propaganda here (all communist orgs Label me as anticommunist).

        in the beginning i was here to check if there is a possibility for anti-islamic persons from different political directions to work together. then i found out that many irrational hateful rightwingers here only use the islam-issue as a pretext for daily leftwing-bashing.
        then i only showed up sometimes to set the Facts straight when factfree antileftwing-hysteria turned into real madnes.

        but gravenimage showed very clearly (and, as she tells, also on the behalf of others) that all what she knows is twisting the meaning of my sentences around and argue against things not said. this might be part of the political “discussions” in USA, but in europe and the “rest” of the world, nobody will take such creatures seriously.so i can save my breath for talks with more intelligent People. thats why yesterday i said goodbye to nonsense-girl &co., and thats it.

        Reply
        • gravenimage says

          Oct 23, 2020 at 9:39 pm

          And yet more again from guenter:

          actually (sic) i (sic) didnt (sic) intend to return to the sick postings of nonsense-girl gravenimage, but yesterday i (sic) overlooked this Little gem from her:

          Really? What Trotskyite groups are distancing themselves from this group? Of course, guenter does not cite any of them.
          ————————————————————————————————-
          this (sic) would be to timetaking (sic) and make no sense, to mention 30 Groups alone from Germany and maybe same as much from the USA, where u (sic) dont (sic) know any of them anyway. for (sic) Insiders this is an old Story that this Group he quoted Labels any other Marxist Group as anticommunist, CIA-agents, and not any single other group wanna work together with them.
          ……………………………..

          In other words, guenter has got nothing. And Communist groups have long labeled each other as “anticommunist, CIA-agents”, etc. In the same way, guenter himself pretends that any Communist groups that are rivals of his own are not real Communists. Not only tedious, but also what Muslims do. This is pretty much the norm among totalitarian groups of all ideologies.

          More:

          In fact, if guenter *really* had a problem with this group, he would contact them himself and tell them how they have gotten Trotsky and Communism so very, very wrong–but of course he has not.

          how (sic) she wanna (sic) know that? she (sic) always claim things which she cant (sic) know. sure (sic) i (sic) had personal discussions with them Long ago and broke them up. written (sic) critics (sic) of mine they didnt (sic) print.
          ……………………………..

          Actually, this is guenter just confirming my assumption that he didn’t contact this group to let them know how very, very wrong they had (supposedly) gotten Communism wrong.

          More:

          so (sic) is her lack of knowledge in (sic) any subject she babbles about. somewhere (sic) she claimed that the iranian (sic) tudeh-party (sic) was aligned with mossadegh (sic). in (sic) opposite, they helped to overthrow his govtm (sic) cause he was Independent and didnt (sic) give a license to USSR to own iranian (sic) oil.
          ……………………………..

          The Tudeh Party vacillated on their support of Mossaddeq (they couldn’t decide if he was Communist *enough*–where have we see this before?); but they did indeed support him at crucial points. This gives a pretty good short overview:

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tudeh_Party_of_Iran#Mosaddeq_era,_his_overthrow_and_aftermath

          More:

          then (sic) she claimed that komalah`s (sic) Opposition (sic) against the Mullahs dont (sic) Count (sic), cause (sic) it was only a regional kurdish (sic) Group (sic). but (sic) as i (sic) had already said, they are since decades now part of the nationwide worker communist Party of spencer-praised (sic) mina (sic) ahadi (sic), who´s hyperactive struggle against the islamic (sic) Regime (sic) cant be denied. opposite (sic) to gravenimage, spencer (sic) didnt (sic) Claim that she does that only to establish a dictatorship of her Party.
          ……………………………..

          I noted, below: “and the Komala Party is specifically Kurdish–this is certainly no indication that Communists oppose Islam”. Of course, guenter really didn’t address that at all. No surprise there.

          More:

          Chy (sic) does People not move to the countries she mentioned? not (sic) because they are socialist, as they Claim, but because they are not socialist. kim (sic) jong (sic) un (sic) is a Fascist, and maybe thats (sic) why he and trump (sic) have a good understanding when they meet.
          but (sic) this will be over her head to understand.
          ……………………………..

          We’ve heard this before–that no Communist state in the past hundred-plus years has ever been Communist. Really, this is just laughable. And North Korea is so intensely Communist that no individual can personally own more than the equivalent of $35, nor is there a single privately-owned company or organization in the entire country. How is this fascist? Just absurd.

          And President Trump has so far largely contained Kim Jong Un, who has been much less a threat to Japan and South Korea than in previous years. Of course, guenter probably does not see this as a desirable thing.

          More:

          rational (sic) arguments make no sense among such fellows here, who´s only resource and lecture might be breitbart (sic).
          otherwise (sic) she had since Long understood, how silly it is to blame me for communist Propaganda here (all communist orgs Label me as anticommunist).
          ……………………………..

          This is just bizarre–guenter has done little else but spew apologia for Communism since he showed up here in June. That many Communist groups consider him to be a non-Communist (assuming this is true) should not surprise–I have noted that Communist are always doing this to each other.

          But all; he does here is go on an on about Marx and “the dictatorship of the party” and similar ugly and tedious Communist claptrap. That he only showed up here on a thread about Trotskyites to spout apologia for them rather belies his implication that he is not a Communist.

          Yet more:

          in (sic) the beginning i (sic) was here to check if there is a possibility for anti-islamic (sic) persons from different political directions to work together. then i (sic) found out that many irrational hateful rightwingers here only use the islam-issue (sic) as a pretext for daily leftwing-bashing.
          then (sic) i (sic) only showed up sometimes to set the Facts straight when factfree (sic) antileftwing-hysteria turned into real madnes (sic).
          ……………………………..

          guenter means that he is upset that no one here wanted to impose the horrors of Communism on the free world, any more than they want the horrors of Islam. Poor guy! Then, he is enraged when anyone dares to point out a story like this one, with Communists allying with Islam.

          The truth is such a hard pill for some to swallow, alas.

          Yet more:

          but (sic) gravenimage showed very clearly (and, as she tells, also on the behalf of others) that all what she knows is twisting the meaning of my sentences around and argue against things not said. this might be part of the political “discussions” in USA, but in europe (sic) and the “rest” of the world, nobody will take such creatures seriously.so i (sic) can save my breath for talks with more intelligent People. thats (sic) why yesterday i said goodbye to nonsense-girl &co., and thats (sic) it.
          ……………………………..

          I am not speaking here on behalf of others, but only for myself. That does not mean however, that most Anti-Jihadists are apt to embrace the savagery of Communism, though. In fact, no one here has embraced his apologia for Communism.

          And despite his implications, most Europeans are not apt to do this, either. In fact, the threat of Communism has plummeted there since the fall of the Iron Curtain. Poor guenter…

          And if he has left Jihad Watch yesterday (as he keeps claiming), then why is he here? He certainly doesn’t have to go–no one is forcing him. But to keep threatening it and then going back on it is just really odd.

  12. guenter says

    Oct 21, 2020 at 3:11 pm

    a little excerpt from karl marx extended anti-islamic writings: “The Koran and the Muslim legislation based on it reduce the geography and ethnography of the various peoples to a simple and convenient division into believers and unbelievers. The unbeliever is ‘harby’, i.e. the enemy. Islam outlaws the nation of infidels and creates a state of permanent enmity between Muslims and infidels.”
    The declaration of war – On the history of the oriental question, Marx-Engels-Werke, Volume 10, p. 170—– and in 1854(!), when not many of them had been here, he already wrote in the new york herald tribune, that “we shall wipe out the islamic mob from europe”!— that means, that left groups who argue otherwise, are NOT marxists or trotskytes.

    Reply
    • gravenimage says

      Oct 21, 2020 at 11:39 pm

      More from guenter:

      what mr. spencer does shamelessly hide here from his readers, is, that he didnt quote “THE” trotskytes…
      …………………………

      guenter has made this ludicrous claim before–that if Robert Spencer isn’t spewing propaganda for the Communists, that he is “hiding” things. Just absurd.

      More:

      The declaration of war – On the history of the oriental question, Marx-Engels-Werke, Volume 10, p. 170—– and in 1854(!), when not many of them had been here, he already wrote in the new york herald tribune, that “we shall wipe out the islamic mob from europe”!— that means, that left groups who argue otherwise, are NOT marxists or trotskytes.
      …………………………

      Communists have considered both Islam and later fascism to be rival totalitarian creeds to their own–that is their only issue with Islam.

      And they have certainly allied with Muslims before when they have considered it useful–most notably the Iranian Tudeh Party allying with the Mullahs to overthrow the Shah. Their allies soon turned on them, though, as soon as they were no longer useful.

      Reply
      • guenter says

        Oct 22, 2020 at 6:17 am

        notourious liar gravenimage….
        u can only repeat what was refuted many times. also the tudeh party which was condomned and isolated amog the leftwing, was only one of many far left groups, where others fought the mullahs since the beginning, as the kurdish komeleh, forerunner of the iranian workercomunist party of miss mina ahadi, who was recently praised here from mr. spencer (with of course hiding to his readers her communist idendity/leadership). and even the tudeh didnt so simply decide “to align with the mullahs”. it was at the beginning of the reolution against the shah -which had its reasons and right- a 50:50 situation between the leftwing -who for some years looked as the strongest force among the opposition- and the mullah followers, who suddenly increased quickly if nearer the rev. did come. i guess, they had the illusion that they could gain influence in an arrangement with them and gain part of the power. iam sure, if they had a miss gravenimage in their ranks, she would had tried so.— so, also here a far more complex story as “2 totalitrian ideologies did unite”. but i know, that you (and wellington or mortimor -for whom u always overtake the answer, cause he cant reply himself) will never get this in ur childish little heads, which does strongly simplyfy everything in american style. go and watch ur mickymouse with a cup of peanut butter.

        Reply
      • guenter says

        Oct 22, 2020 at 6:27 am

        P.S.: as u cant find any argument against the very clear anti-islamic statements of karl marx, u try to interpretate this as something tactical against “rival totalitarian creeds”, what is even more stupid, cause fascism didnt excist and islam played no role when marx said this.so, anybody leftwing who sees this different cant claim to be marxist/communist. thats very obvious here, and not only my personal interpretation.— –and also it was ur so called democratic capitalists who installed the “rival creed” of fascism to smash the strong socialist working class movementsin pre-rev.situation of this time.and US-imperialism with his 4 millions of death in the iraq war and once building up the forerunner of the taliban in afghanistan against a pro-soviet govtm there, did a lot to push the grow of islamism further. (later their creations turned against them.) but we had that b4.

        Reply
        • gravenimage says

          Oct 22, 2020 at 8:41 pm

          guenter wrote:

          notourious (sic) liar gravenimage….
          …………………………..

          Notice that guenter has never been able to point to anything I have said that is untrue. Same this time.

          More:

          u (sic) can only repeat what was refuted many times.
          ………………………….

          What has been refuted, and by whom?

          More:

          also (sic) the tudeh (sic) party which was condomned (sic) and isolated amog (sic) the leftwing, was only one of many far left groups, where others fought the mullahs since the beginning, as the kurdish (sic) komeleh (sic), forerunner of the iranian (sic0 workercomunist (sic) party of miss mina (sic) ahadi (sic), who was recently praised here from mr. spencer (sic) (with of course hiding to his readers her communist idendity/leadership (sic)).
          …………………………..

          Actually, the Tudeh Party was enormously influential, and was aligned with Iranian leader Mossaddegh–the idea that it was some sort of fringe Communist Party is simply untrue.

          And the Komala Party is specifically Kurdish–this is certainly no indication that Communists oppose Islam.

          Then, guenter is again condemning Anti-Jihadists for not spewing Communist propaganda–he has done this before. As I noted re Mina Ahadi in that thread, “it does not particularly matter to ravening Muslims if an ex-Muslim has left Islam for Christianity, or Communism, or anything else…”

          More:

          and even the tudeh (sic) didnt (sic) so simply decide “to align with the mullahs”. it was at the beginning of the reolution (sic) against the shah (sic)-which had its reasons and right- a 50:50 situation between the leftwing -who for some years looked as the strongest force among the opposition- and the mullah followers, who suddenly increased quickly if nearer the rev. did come. i guess, they had the illusion that they could gain influence in an arrangement with them and gain part of the power. iam (sic) sure, if they had a miss gravenimage in their ranks, she would had tried so.— so, also here a far more complex story as “2 totalitrian (sic) ideologies did unite”. but i (sic) know, that you (and wellington (sic) or mortimor (sic) -for whom u (sic) always overtake the answer, cause (sic) he (sic) cant (sic) reply himself) will never get this in ur (sic) childish little heads, which does strongly simplyfy (sic) everything in american (sic) style. go (sic) and watch ur (sic) mickymouse (sic) with a cup of peanut butter.
          …………………………..

          Yes, the Tudeh Party did indeed ally with the Mullahs. There is no doubt that the Shah was authoritarian and undemocratic, but it is also clear that either an Islamic theocracy or a Communist totalitarian state would have been worse.

          As for the idea that if I had been a member of the Tudeh Party that I tooo would have been sucking up to the Mullahs, this claim is *just bizarre*. I have made it quite clear that I am neither for a Communist nor for a Shari’ah state.

          And how does any of what guenter has said here prove that either Communism or Isla m are not totalitarian (not “totalitrian”). Of course, it does not.

          And the idea that if I reply to guenter it is because staunch Anti-Jihadists Wellington and Mortimer are unable to makes no sense wjatsoever.

          More:

          P.S.: as u (sic) cant (sic) find any argument against the very clear anti-islamic (sic) statements of karl (sic) marx (sic), u (sic)try to interpretate (sic) this as something tactical against “rival totalitarian creeds”, what is even more stupid, cause fascism didnt (sic) excist and islam (sic) played no role when marx (sic) said this.so, anybody leftwing who sees this different cant (sic) claim to be marxist/communist (sic). thats (sic) very obvious here, and not only my personal interpretation.—
          …………………………..

          Marx made it quite clear that he hated all religions. Further, Islam *is* in fact totalitarian–is guenter pretending that it is not?

          Then, Communists have indeed hated not just freedom, but any creeds–such as Islam and Fascism–that appear to be rivals to its own brutal power. Again, how can guenter refute this? Clearly, he cannot.

          More:

          –and also it was ur (sic) so called democratic capitalists who installed the “rival creed” of fascism (sic) to smash the strong socialist working class movementsin (sic) pre-rev.situation (sic) of this time.and (sic) US-imperialism with his 4 millions of death in the iraq war and once building up the forerunner of the taliban (sic) in afghanistan (sic) against a pro-soviet govtm (sic) there, did a lot to push the grow of islamism (sic) further. (later their creations turned against them.) but we had that b4 (sic).
          …………………………..

          No, Fascism is not democratic–what a bizarre thing to claim.

          Then. Stalin had an agreement with Hitler until the latter decided that Russia was weak and decided to violate it.

          Then note that guenter starts castigating the US for daring to oppose Jihad–this does not particularly surprise.

          Then, we have seen the claim that Islam is not really responsible for Jihad, and it is all the fault of the West. Try again…

  13. guenter says

    Oct 22, 2020 at 10:09 pm

    @gravenimage: u must be very very seriously sick in the brain- and a monstrous beast of a Person:

    “Then, we have seen the claim that Islam is not really responsible for Jihad, and it is all the fault of the West”- so this is ur sick twisting away from the fact that the US did build up the forerunner of the taliban, to finish the nadshibullah govtm. so when u cant refute a fact, but also dont wanna confess the truth, u make a sick Interpretation out of my words.

    same with ur Claim i had labbelled fascism as democratic. as anybody can see with his own eyes, i wrote that the “so called democratic capitalists” (the People u consider as democratic ones) had installed fascism. that dont mean that fascism is democratic, but that those conservative-bourgeois persons who Label themselves as democratic, are not.

    u must have had a real schooling and Training in twisting any word around and arguing against things not said- cause this is the only Thing u really know well.
    pls go and consider whether a pychologist or an psycho-analyst or an psychiatrist, cause u seem to be an psychiatric case.

    and the fact that nobody else here tries to correct all ur obious lies, Shows that this here seems to be a site for insane fascists who try to come in an democratic coat, but itst easy to see through.

    nobody here ever had a word of pity for the 4 Millions who died in the iraq war- who was based on the lie (as george bush later confessed!) of “saddams mass-weapons” as a pretext for war (and mentioning this does of course not mean that i ever was a supporter of Saddam or the Islam. Keep ur next sick try to Twist my words around to urself. we know the trick now.)

    what bastards u are!
    but i thank all of you for the various self-exposings i experienced here, which i can use well for articles (or perhaps an book) about the dirty tricks of insane trump-eters.

    byebye nonsensegirl

    Reply
    • gravenimage says

      Oct 23, 2020 at 12:10 am

      Yet more from guenter:

      @gravenimage: u (sic) must be very very seriously sick in the brain- and a monstrous beast of a Person:

      “Then, we have seen the claim that Islam is not really responsible for Jihad, and it is all the fault of the West”- so this is ur (sic) sick twisting away from the fact that the US did build up the forerunner of the taliban (sic), to finish the nadshibullah (sic) govtm (sic). so (sic) when u (sic) cant (sic) refute a fact, but also dont (sic) wanna (sic) confess the truth, u (sic) make a sick Interpretation out of my words.
      …………………………..

      Actually, you see the free West blamed all the time for the horrors of Islam by Muslim apologists. Is guenter saying that this is not so?

      More:

      same (sic) with ur (sic) Claim i had labbelled (sic) fascism as democratic. as (sic) anybody can see with his own eyes, i (sic) wrote that the “so called democratic capitalists” (the People u (sic) consider as democratic ones) had installed fascism. that (sic) dont (sic) mean that fascism is democratic, but that those conservative-bourgeois persons who Label (sic) themselves as democratic, are not.
      …………………………..

      Not only are most Trotskyites not real Trotskyites, but apparently most democratic capitalists are actually fascists in guenter’s world. No–there are no cases of democratic capitalists installing fascism.

      I consider the US to be democratic, as well as Britain and France. None of these nations installed fascism–why would guenter pretend that they did?

      More:

      u (sic) must have had a real schooling and Training (sic) in twisting any word around and arguing against things not said- cause this is the only Thing (sic) u (sic) really know well.
      pls (sic) go and consider whether a pychologist (sic) or an psycho-analyst or an (sic) psychiatrist, cause u (sic) seem to be an psychiatric case.
      …………………………..

      Apparently guenter is not familiar with the use of logic–no surprise there, I doubt this is much valued in Communist circles.

      And no–opposing the horrors of Islam and Communism is not insanity. That guenter thinks it is disturbing, but scarcely surprising.

      More:

      and (sic) the fact that nobody else here tries to correct all ur (sic) obious (sic) lies, Shows that this here seems to be a site for insane fascists who try to come in an (sic) democratic coat, but itst (sic) easy to see through.
      …………………………..

      Again, few here want to live under either Communism or Islam–and no, that doesn’t make anyone a fascist. As I have noted, Communism, Fascism, and Islam are all totalitarian creeds. Most of us here actually love freedom and democracy. Of course, guenter cannot grasp that.

      More:

      nobody (sic) here ever had a word of pity for the 4 Millions who died in the iraq (sic) war- who was based on the lie (as george bush (sic) later confessed!) of “saddams (sic) mass-weapons” (sic) as a pretext for war (and mentioning this does of course not mean that i (sic) ever was a supporter of Saddam or the (sic) Islam. Keep ur (sic) next sick try to Twist (sic) my words around to urself (sic). we (sic) know the trick now.)
      …………………………..

      Exact figures are uncertain, but I don’t know anyone–not even Jihadists–who claim the toll was four million. Here is a rough breakdown:

      https://www.businessinsider.com/how-many-people-have-been-killed-in-iraq-and-afghanistan

      There appear to have been around 250,000 civilian deaths in Iraq.

      Most of those killed were killed by Jihad terrorists.

      And yes, I have expressed sympathy for those caught in the horrors of Islam many times–including those in Iraq. How can guenter pretend I have not?

      Saddest of all is that few there had any interest in grasping the chance to build a real democracy–most have been intent on creating another totalitarian Islam state, this time with their own gang at the helm. Note that guenter does not say he has any problem with that.

      More:

      what (sic) bastards u (sic) are!
      but (sic) i (sic) thank all of you for the various self-exposings (sic) i experienced here, which i (sic) can use well for articles (or perhaps an (sic) book) about the dirty tricks of insane trump-eters (sic).

      byebye nonsensegirl (sic)
      …………………………..

      How are we bastards for opposing the horrors of Islam and of Communism?

      And will guenter be sharing his books written on the supposed perfidy of those who love freedom and hate tyranny of whatever stripe? Somehow I rather doubt it…

      Reply

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