In other words, you can have freedom of thought, as long as you don’t think what he doesn’t want you to think. The West is going all-in for this Orwellian idea these days, so why not Erdogan?
“Erdogan: Insulting people’s beliefs is not freedom,” TRT World, November 28, 2020:
Turkish President Erdogan says those who encourage insults towards Prophet Muhammad and those who ignore attacks on mosques are trying to hide their fascism.
Turkey’s President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has condemned the rising Islamophobia and anti-Muslim sentiments in Western countries, saying insulting people’s beliefs has nothing to do with freedom of thought.
“You have been closely following the meanness in France towards the Prophet [Muhammad] under the label of ‘freedom of thought’,” Erdogan told the 23rd annual convention of the Muslim American Society on Saturday.
“Insulting people’s holy figures is far removed from freedom. Because the thought is different, the insult is different.”…
He said the Western countries use freedom of thought and press while attacking sacred values, adding they cannot tolerate even the slightest criticism of themselves.
Describing Islamophobia as a disease that spreads faster than the novel coronavirus, Erdogan said: “Cultural racism, discrimination, and intolerance have reached levels that cannot be concealed in countries that for many years have been hailed as cradles of democracy.”
Erdogan said that Islamophobia and xenophobia have turned into a trend that guides state policies and makes daily life difficult….
Michael Copeland says
Cultural racism, discrimination, and intolerance – Turkey’s modus operandi.
somehistory says
He wants to control our speech…and our “thoughts.” Talk about “intolerance and discrimination.”
And “culture” includes so much…I personally like to think, every once in awhile, about cherry cheese cake, and often about hot pork rinds.
If the thoughts about the hot pork rinds offends turkey, then it will be worse in the offense department, because I eat them often.
mortimer says
Yes, he wants to control which religions may be insulted. Islam insults all other religions, but Muslims will KILL you if you insult the absurdities and amoralities within Islam.
Any irrational, immoral or unscientific idea SHOULD be held up to scrutiny and if appropriate to ridicule as well.
LB says
Don’t forget mass genocide of all non-Turks / non-muslims. Turks are quite good at that as well.
gravenimage says
All too true, LB.
Wellington says
Proving again that Muslim ideas of freedom make a mockery of real freedom.
Between Islam and real freedom, there can be no compromise. It’s one or the other.
Those averring otherwise are either fooling themselves or are being deceitful.
gravenimage says
+1
Westman says
Islam also fools itself about the character of Muhammad; claiming virtues that are contradicted by its own records of his life.
Ain’t it amazin’ that Islam’s own Hadith works are “mean” to Muhammad, describing him as a murderer of critics, a caravan robber, a slayer of unbelieving societies, a warlord, a slave owner, a
keeper of booty wives, wedding a child, a hater of music, and a spreader of falsehood about how sex is determined, to name a few.
Islam can only get away with claiming “meaness” toward Muhammad due to the ignorance of the West and much of the ummah about Muhammad’s actual life and character – AS DESCRIBED IN ISLAM’S OWN HOLY BOOKS!
Sorry, Erdogan, Islam’s Hadith will condem Muhammad, forever. You cannot justify Muhammad’s life to a modern, educated, world without purging the Hadith.
Islam has climbed the ladder to become a successful “religion” and found itself on the wrong wall, the wall of 14th century ignorance. We can’t fix that.
gravenimage says
But pious Muslims consider these atrocities to be virtues.
prebangian says
Muhammad was a human being. Islam is an idea. Much of the world’s criticism is directed towards Islam and not towards Muhammad or any other human being but rather towards many of the ideas of Islam. I don’t think it is correct to say one is mean to an idea. We can’t criticize human beings, that would be bigotry, but we can criticize their (supremacist) ideas that they hold and live by.
JohnTheRevelator says
Pakistan has already threatened to nuke Holland and other countries for ‘insulting’ Mohammad, so imagine what lunatics like Erdogan would do if he had nukes (the nato nukes don’t belong to turkey).
Muslims misunderstand freedom of speech if they think there are limits at insults. In fact freedom of speech is precisely the right to offend others’ ideas/opinions without fear of violence. Ofc the actual limit is where anyone threatens to harm others, which ironically is something Muslims do on a daily basis.
Western leaders are still in a delusional state where they believe Muslims won’t harm us, despite the 33,000 or so terrorist attacks since 9/11. The war is already on, we’re in it right now. Just because there are no bullets flying doesn’t mean Muslims are not trying to destroy us.
It’s probably going to take a large scale terrorist attack (like a nuked city) to shake them out of their complacency and actually deal with this problem. Who’d have thought in the 2000s we’d be at war with 7th century savages who hate us for being ‘infidels.’
Also if your religious figure is so great, why do you need to prop him up with threats and violence? Wouldn’t his amazing deeds, exemplary morals, heroism, etc make him an admirable legend for all of us, say with past freedom-fighters, like Martin Luther King or Gandhi for example?
Have you considered that maybe your prophet was a truly wretched and evil person, which is why he’s so universally hated. But since you were brainwashed from infancy to believe he was so great, that you have to childishly attack others to keep up that self-delusion. That’s the real mental illness here, not our ‘Islamophobia.’
gravenimage says
You aren’t wrong, John:
https://eurasiantimes.com/pakistan-nuclear-attack-holland/
I was hoping to enter that drawing contest–it was to have been sponsored by Dutch politician Geert Wilders and cartoonist Bosch Fawstin. But the threats were so severe that Wilders reluctantly decided to cancel it. Terrorism works.
JohnTheRevelator says
Thanks Graven, yes I recall Wilders was forced to call it off because he didn’t want innocent people to get hurt. But we cannot keep bowing to these threats, since eventually they will have succeeded to force us to submit to Islam and Muslim rule over us.
It’s really up to our leaders to take a stand and defend our nations. And if there really is a credible threat of nuclear attack then our elites must be ready to get them before they get us. Whether it’s a lunatic with a knife or a gang of thugs with a bomb, we cannot let Muslims make us surrender, we need to be victorious. It’s a zero-sum game, winner takes all.
gravenimage says
I agree, John–we cannot back down to Islam.
But I do know that both Wilders and Fawstin are *very* brave men, so I do not blame them for backing off–the threat to others must have been extreme.
GreekEmpress says
GI,
I have no doubt you would have won the contest hands down!
gravenimage says
Thank you for your kind words, GreekEmpress.
Boycott Turkey says
That’s a other reason why Pakistan should never have been created it was a mistake for Britain to help create a Islamic nuclear state like Pakistan no more Muslim countries should have nuclear weapons like Iran or Turkey they should get the nukes out of Turkey and destroy Iran’s nuclear program
Infidel says
Unfortunately, in the Indian subcontinent, the UK was an agent of Islam, an agent of evil. At the time they arrived and started building settlements, the Mughal empire was imploding and limited to a suburb of Delhi (not even all of Delhi) and the Hindu Marathas and the Sikhs in Punjab were on the ascendancy. British intervention just gave a new lease of life to Muslim kingdoms still holding out, such as the Nizam of Hyderabad.
Had the Brits never arrived, what we know today as Pakistan would have been a Sikh province or nation. Yeah, it’s tough to know how things would have evolved in the 19th and 20th centuries, but one thing one can be sure of – the Muslims would have been subdued. Note that in that same time period, the Russians had wiped out a lot of the khanates in Turkistan and were threatening Afghanistan: those regions had been the source of jihad into India from the 15th century onwards. So had the Brits never been around, there would have been no Pakistan today, and there wouldn’t have been 600 million Muslims in the sub-continent
gravenimage says
Boycott Turkey, Pakistan was not created as a nuclear state–they later stole nuclear technology.
And Infidel–with the greatest respect–whatever the faults of the British, they likely saved India most of India from falling under the heel of invading Muslims.
Boycott Turkey says
Gravenimage I was already aware Pakistan’s nukes where created from stolen technology from a Pakistani scientist what I meant was if Britain never helped create Pakistan in the first place then it never would have existed for it to become a nuclear state no Pakistan with no Nuclear weapons it’s very dangerous for the world they could give nuclear weapons to Turkey or Saudis and let Islam take over now Look what has happened to Britain as a result Pakistan blackmails the UK for foreign aid in exchange Pakistan says it will not to let the nukes get in the hands of terrorist as long as the foreign aid keeps flowing in
gravenimage says
I take your point, Boycott Turkey–but India with 373 million more Muslims (the population of Pakistan and Bangladesh) would not be safer, either.
Boycott Turkey says
What about the Greek Orthodox Christians he insulted by turning Agia Sofia to a mosque and destroying Churches and turning them to mosque much worst then a cartoon God I hate this Pos
Infidel says
Yeah, converting churches into mosques ain’t mean, but criticizing someone who’s been dead for close to 2 millennia is!
Why don’t they protest China, which recently in a documentary, showed a Muslim ambassador present a portrait of Mohammed to a Chinese emperor!
Boycott Turkey says
True the reason Turkey won’t protest China is because of money infact Turkey was even deporting uighars back to China by the way is it a true life documentary that a Muslim. Ambassador was presenting a portrait of Muhammad to a Chinese emperor or just fiction ?
Infidel says
Whether the documentary was true or not, the fact that it included a portrait of Mohammed would have caused a riot anywhere else in the world. Only the Chinese could skate free!
Wonder what we have to do to get such a pass from the OIC? Start treating our Muslims like the Chicoms treat the Uyghurs?
Here’s the report about the documentary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljhbc_1F1Rc
Boycott Turkey says
Thanks for the link infidel seems Turkey and Pakistan love Chinese money to much to care
Infidel says
BT, if countries could marry, Turkey and Pakistan would be spouses. Turkey the hubby
somehistory says
See the photo? See the madman in the photo? See the moslim terrorist in the photo? May as well be looking at a picture of satan the devil.
satan lies; he’s the “father of the lie,” and his “children” copy his rotten example. er snake awan is a liar as his father is.
What is more, he is so stupid…one cannot be “mean” to a dead person. To show meanness to a person, that person has to be made to feel bad, hurt, upset, disappointed, ashamed or even afraid.
The Bible says that, “The dead know nothing.” King Solomon wrote that whatever we can find to do, do it while able and with vigor, because once one dies, his works, his activities, cease. He wrote, “A live dog is better off than a dead lion.”
So, even if the mass-murdering, rapist of children, lying scum, son of satan was a scum who had one atom of goodness in his rotten body, one pure thought in his soul, he still can’t feel anything that is being said about him. He’s dead. Not in some fictional sex paradise ( a “paradise” such as that would be the opposite of a real paradise) getting drunk, but dead as a doornail.
But, let’s pretend that we can be “mean” to the lying, murdering bag of scummy dross and have at it with as much vigor as possible. Tell the Truth about that son of satan and his evil islam to as many people as possible. While we are free to do so. God, the Real One, our Creator, gave us “freedom of speech.” Let all speakers of Truth use that “free gift,” and make er snake awan squirm.
abad says
Erdogan worships the Devil. What else would you expect from him?
somehistory says
“The Belmont Drive Missionary Baptist Church has a bold message for the citizens in Hood River, Oregon and let’s just say that Muslims and liberals are losing their minds over it! ”
The churches outside reader boards display 2 messages. One says, “Wake up Christians. Allah is not our God. Muhammad not greater than Jesus.” The other says, “Only the bible is God’s word. “Holy book.” Koran is just another book.”
https://americasfreedomfighters.com/muslims-demand-church-remove-bigoted-signs-pastor-has-the-perfect-reply-2/?utm_source=AFF-Mailer&utm_medium=email&utm_content=subscriber_id:3180342&utm_campaign=Dino%20AFF%2011-29-20%20%233
It has the mayor all upset, calling it “bigotry.” He’s “annoyed and sad.”
gravenimage says
Good stuff, Somehistory. Thanks for the link.
somehistory says
You’re welcome, g.
Btw, I did have the surgery, thank you; there was a complication, but I had that taken care of last week. Doc said I was “perfect” in not moving while he worked. All “looks good,” but I have follow-up exam next week and to order new glasses. Yay!
Sight is so important. Everyone…eat yellow and orange foods and if you have any eye issues, take special “eye” vitamins and minerals.
We must be able to keep up with what is happening and see any threat coming for us personally. (I’ve missed not being able to read my Bible’s tiny print, relying on memory for Scriptural references.)
gravenimage says
*Excellent* news, Somehistory!
And you are right about yellow and orange foods–carrots, yellow and orange peppers, winter squash and yams–all healthy foods.
And you can find the Bible in large-print format–and in a number of different editions, including the King James’ Version:
https://www.christianbook.com/page/bibles/large-print-bibles?kw=large%20print%20bible&mt=e&dv=c&event=PPCSRC&p=1018818&gclid=Cj0KCQiAqo3-BRDoARIsAE5vnaJKhVvkLn6xwa_H2h9_rQ7UrVNu-uDokhbq1BbKEpW5ssFYGB2lsY4aAhVwEALw_wcB
There are other sources.
somehistory says
Thank you, g.
Yes, I know there are largeprint. I had one, but somehow lost it and if my problem was just the size, might have bought another, but seeing double made even large print…I changed this page to large font…was just about impossible. And my right retina has been damaged by drusen accumulation that makes it difficult in other ways to distinguish where words end. That is why I couldn’t read entire articles or all comments. It was just too tiring and took too long. I’ve used Bible verses on different sites and that has kept me from feeling too down
The eye vitamins are helping with the drusen problem and now my left is so much better. Drusen in it too, but the vit will keep it from getting so bad.
James Lincoln says
somehistory,
Sounds like some good news regarding your vision!
I may have mentioned it before, but there is a good way to avoid eyestrain from overuse.
Copy and paste any article into Microsoft Word and use the read aloud function…
GreekEmpress says
somehistory,
Wishing you a complete and speedy recovery!
Infidel says
somehistory, glad to hear that you’ve recovered
somehistory says
Thank you, James Lincoln, GE and infidel. I appreciate all of the good will shown. I’m glad I can read your comments once again. Many deep thinkers add a lot to the understanding of what’s being done and why.
Michael Copeland says
For James Lincoln and somehistory………
The read-aloud program brings to mind a subtitle masterpiece:
Speaker (English): “Over there there will be an aluminium smelter.”
Auto-subtitle (American): “Over there there will be an Allah minion smelter.”
gravenimage says
Erdogan: ‘Meanness’ toward Muhammad is ‘far removed’ from ‘freedom of thought’
………………..
So opposing the vicious creed of a warlord, pedophile, slaver, rapist, and mass murderer is not freedom of thought but is “meaness”? If any Infidels swallow this, they are the fools.
jewdog says
I don’t know about Muhammad, but I think that meanness towards Moby Dick should not be permitted. People have no right to insult the white whale, yet they sit around and laugh as that sadistic, bearded maniac, Captain Ahab, harpoons the poor creature with impunity, and the greedy Herman Melville rakes in the royalties. Free speech has its limits, and ridiculing Moby is out of bounds. Please, save the whale, and your soul, or else.
Shaman says
While supporting the Islamic terrorists in Syria and Libya and persecuting your own people and country, making it the world’s biggest jail for journalists, starving your people while your wife wears French bags and you sit at your palace, it is a shameless hypocritical act to assume “the kuffar” to respect your savage, barbarian idol from 14 centuries ago. As Erdogan “once” said “We will be harsh against the kuffar” this vomit of him proves he is nothing but a liar who perfectly reflects the savage creature who lived fourteen hundreds years ago and eventually turned against his own tribe for the sake of his demonic false God.
Michael Copeland says
“History’s most obvious false prophet” – David Wood.
mortimer says
The Koran insults the Holy Trinity, an essential, cardinal doctrine of Christianity required for salvation.
The Koran insults the apostles who taught the basic Christian doctrines in the Book of Acts a few short weeks after the crucifixion of Jesus. The Koran is unhistorical and fantastic, because it is based on FANTASY and MAN-MADE MYTHOLOGY.
A number of medical doctors have written that Mohammed was likely ill with TEMPORAL LOBE EPILEPSY.
The hadiths mention a number of TLE symptoms experienced by Mohammed: sweating, flushing, auditory and visual hallucinations, ghosts, ‘aliens’, déjàvu, intense emotions, obsessive compulsions, fear, anxiety derealization, depersonalization, forced thoughts, febrile convulsions in childhood, memory dysfunction, heightened religiosity, preoccupation with right and wrong, greater interest in global/philosophical concerns, symptoms sometimes resemble those of schizophrenia.
Muslims try to resemble the madman Mohammed in thought and speech and deed.
mortimer says
Erdogan is stirring up hatred of freedom.
St. Croix says
Really?
“He said the Western countries use freedom of thought and press while attacking sacred values, adding they cannot tolerate even the slightest criticism of themselves.”
Not only do we tolerate criticisms of ourselves in the West, we criticize OURSELVES! We apologize and grovel, ad nauseum, for our mistakes and even for sins we have not committed!
If we have done wrong, yes, stop doing it, restore what can be restored, learn and move on. But, we are now apologizing for everything. We are ashamed of our accomplishments and history. Ashamed of our Judeo-Christian values. We tolerate just about everything, including vast heaps of criticism dumped on us by Islam, by the woke movement, by the brainwashed professors who learned well under Muslim Brotherhood stealth education programs, by the church leaders. Our own media lead the charge in tearing down whatever and whoever might be able to stand up to people like Erdogan and the tide of Islam. There is no end to the tolerance.
However, i say enough is enough!
gravenimage says
Fine post.
James Lincoln says
St. Croix says,
“There is no end to the tolerance.”
The paradox of intolerance states that if a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant.
Karl Popper first described it in 1945…
St. Croix says
James, we are clearly self-destructing. This macabre obsessions with getting rid of borders is a clear indication of cultural suicide. Show me a cell without borders! The very skin on our body is border, it contains our physical being and protects us from invasion. Show me any tribe of olden times, any aboriginal group that existed without “borders” and if there were any we probably don’t know about them because they were assimilated or destroyed! They had “territory” and they either made peace and trading treaties with nearby tribes or fought with them to defend their own land base. THAT was what their existence depended on! Land.
Borderless mentality examples:
– Open borders to any and all “refugees” and migrants, for one.
– Sexual assault on women and children by dangerous criminals who are often those same refugees is borderlessness at the individual AND societal, cultural level. A law and enforcement that would lay down penalties commensurate with the crime is a deterrent and in effect, a helpful border, but only if the penalties are enforced!!
– Weakened institutions and constitutions that are supposed to protect sovereignty of a nation are borders which have been torn down. In the U.S. we see an assault on these institutions.
– Accepting any old definition of what constitutes a family is destructive on many levels. But strong families and a society that encourages two parents and extended family are borders against assimilation! Islam protects the family unit, even by force, and encourage children, and this is greatly to their advantage. I hate how they do it. But they know without it, they are not going to endure and…conquer. This is why they have such penalties to apostates and children who won’t tow the line of expected behaviour, vis, the honour killings, the parents killing children of whatever age–if they can get their hands on them–who defect and become atheists or join another religion. Shunning same, at the very least. It is harsh, but they do it for a reason.
– Education, law and media which work against parents and families destroy borders from within.
– in a democracy, a reliable election system that prevents tampering, and effective protocols for discovering same, and punishing the criminals who try to destroy it, is an effective border that protects sovereignty. The opposite certainly causes destruction from within.
– Any force or ideology that prohibits defense systems, on municipal, regional or national levels, will ensure that a nation is invaded and destroyed. Any force such as this working within the society–actually employed by members of that same society!– means the seeds of self-destruction were sown a long time ago, and are now thriving and bearing fruit.
– Let’s not forget a healthy economy. A ruined debtor state is crippled and powerless.
That’s just the tip of the iceberg. Just the tip, as the readers of Jihadwatch know! I’m preaching to the choir. These are all major challenges and it may be too late to turn it back. In the U.S. Trump has been a bulwark against the rot. But now we see the rot rising up against him. I hold the media to be the main source for spreading the contagion of borderless mentality. Not the source, but the “super spreader.”
The Muslim Brotherhood was actually one of the sources. Communism/Marxism was another, and that one we also see growing and taken up by young people, as it gained foothold in the universities. Which is why working class people are often immune from it, they weren’t indoctrinated in universities. Now though, grade level education is totally contaminated with every kind of rot as well, and parents are being chained by law to follow through on the program.
With all of this going on, the West is staggering. A threat from without can unite a people; but if the assailants are within, and embraced, and citizens are penalized by even pointing out that fact, what hope is there of nation unified and sovereign?
All those dystopian classics of literature that warned of what can happen, and how, are now thrown in the dumpster. Probably no longer taught in schools. I can’t even find a copy of The Gulag Archipelago at my local library. They used to carry it. I need to point this out and ask WHY NOT?! at my local level. What else are they no longer carrying…and why? I probably know why, but that’s no excuse. “Not enough room” for these classics. But the new books just out in the genre of “woke lit” are overflowing, and prominently displayed. I’m starting to feel like a character in the Twilight Zone show of old–everyone around me is a zombie shadow of their old self now that they’ve “seen the light.”
With these few items in mind, compare the Biden admin’s goals and objectives with those of Trump. OH DEAR GOD!
I’m actually a Canadian, and when I look at what we have now, compared to Stephen Harper formerly, it’s quite painful. We are more advanced on the downward slope than the U.S. though further behind Europe. One reason is that we have fewer Muslims, thanks to the Harper years. But the trend is the same in all the Western democracies.
I do pray for the situation now in the U.S. with this election fraud. It’s obvious what has gone down with that. I hope and pray the truth come out.
James Lincoln says
St. Croix,
Excellent post, my compliments.
My biggest concern is whether or not the vast majority of young men and women approaching military age in the United States will ever come to the conclusion –
wrongfully, that their country is not worth defending…
Fred van de Bunt says
John Wayne as the cowboy, often revered to those moralizing types like Erdogan as “pilgrims”.
So what about this pious Muslim “pilgrim” Erdogan and his Turks, that again calls people fascists?
Turkey is a member of the Council of Europe, and as such is monitored on speech:
https://rm.coe.int/fifth-report-on-turkey/16808b5c81
Reading page 19, numbers 30 and 31:
“…a ruling party MP, addressing Jews, tweeted “May you never be deprived of a Hitler!” The huge impact of such public hate speech is shown by a survey, which found that during the same two
days 27 309 Turkish Twitter users had sent 30 926 Turkish-language tweets in
support of Hitler’s genocide in just 24 hours”;
“A Turkish pop star: “May Allah bless Hitler. What he did to them was too little. How correct the
man was””;
“A Turkish university professor: ” proposed the rebuilding of concentration camps to kill “all the Jews””;
“In January 2015, Melih Gökcek, mayor of Ankara, accused Israel’s Mossad spy agency of organising the terrorist attacks in Paris.”
Erdogan and his Turks fighting fascism…
Shaman says
In my opinion Turkey is the biggest dangerous country to kuffar and the most Turkish people are just a bunch of terrorist-sympathizers so that they love the two pharaohs of two centuries, one being Hitler other being Hitlerdogan (Hitler-born in Turkish). And the beer-drinking Kemalists are nothing but racists who hate Armenians and Kurds and always support the arch-terrorist Erdogan when he acts his army against them in Syria and Artsakh. Ataturk was also no different than Erdogan. We can call him first Hitler of Turkey and Erdogan as second Hitler of Turkey.
St. Croix says
Very good points by Fred VdB and Shaman. Turkey will be the one to watch. He’s had the Western nations confused, by being an “ally” (actually, just pretending while he sheltered, supplied and nourished jihadists such as ISIS)…and confusion is always a good thing to wish for the ranks of the enemy.
Boycott Turkey says
Well said Shaman Turkey and Pakistan are the most anti Kafir countries Secular Turkey is just as Anti Christians as Islamic Turkey no difference
gravenimage says
Despite their hatred of Infidels, most pious Muslims love Hitler.
somehistory says
Such hateful things to say. And then they complain that no one likes them, that islam is hated, and we all go around hurting their feelings with the Truth. And the entire time, others of their cult are out raping and murdering.
Ad says
There are no insults, only in the eye of the beholder.
The truth can never be an insult.
And the truth is, Mo was a criminal and mass murderer exclusively according to his Islamic biography or mythology.
There are no other sources!
Henry says
You cannot say, “I am a prophet”. Only God reveals the truth into our hearts. Mohammad was
illiterate and could not read or write. He was engrossed with the stories of the Bible and Moses.
Mohammad wanted both of both worlds. Materialism, wealth and a six year old wife along with many
wives and wanted to be the holy man of the world. It doesn’t work that way.
Only God calls us and not our own making. No one believed him then and now its all about insults and jihad
we will kill who ever insults the prophet.islam is killing people everyday, they are sick. The argument doesn’t hold water. The koran is a worthless manuscript. Its not the Gospels of the Bible.
somehistory says
All true.
Walter Sieruk says
Freedom of thought is not allowed in Islam because that might lead to disturbing and unsettling questions about that religion.
Related to this is the classical work of ancient Greek literature, by Plato, entitled THE APOLOGY OF SOCRATES it in written that Socrates had said “An unexamined life is not worth living.” Likewise, in may also be said that “An unexamined religion is not worth believing in.” This is said about all religions. Yet to be specific, in this case, the topic is about the religion of Islam. Furthermore, one man who was as a former a Muslim and had lived in one of the Islamic nations of the Middle East but now he is Christian and an American citizen had explained in a book he wrote that “Driving into depths of the word of reasoned thinking and research in Islamic societies has always been costly. Some Muslims who have done this have even been excluded from their social rights and even sentenced to death.” [1]
[1] ISLAM AND THE SON OF GOD by Daniel Shayesteh page 70.
Walter Sieruk says
Freedom of thought is not permitted in Islam. Better termed yet “The Cave of Islam.”
For the Greek philosopher Plato is one of the contributors to Western Civilization. He may shed some light into the subject of those people who are shackled in the chains and darkness of Islamic thought. In Plato’s REPUBLIC he gave an allegory of a cave where “the condition of men living in a sort of cavernous chamber…Here they have been from childhood, chained by leg and also by the neck, so that they cannot move and see only what is in front of them.”
This can fit into what the imams do in the mosques and how they brainwash the young people in the madrassa’s by always programming Islamic doctrine into their victims and not exposing them to other worldviews. Furthermore, even in Islamic tradition when Muslims have their newborn child the father whispers words of the Quran into the infants ear so that that Quran verses are the first thing the newborn person hears. This programming process takes place all their lives.
These are some of the chains that keep them bound in a mosque [cave]. The chains do not let them reach out for dialectic reasoning and let them examine the evidence both for as well as against, or even question whether Muhammad was a true prophet of God or not, and if the Quran is a hoax or not. As the chains and darkness of the cave blinds and holds the prisoners back from reality, so Islamic propaganda holds back the cognition to reason with the question if Islam is true or not. They are forbidden from even thinking to question Islam. Furthermore, if a Muslim by some miracle wakes up to the truth about Islam, it would be like the man in Plato’s cave allegory who was released from his chains and taken outside to the real world. At first direct light would be painful and disorienting, it would take some time for him to understand what the truth is all about, he even might cling to the shadows and still for a time believe some of the illusions to be real.
Nevertheless, he would finally come to know “what he had formerly seen was meaningless illusion.” and that was “what passed for wisdom in his former dwelling place.” and that the other cave prisoners needed to see the light [the truth] for he “was sorry for them.” and he would re-enter the cave just to rescue them. Nevertheless, the cave prisoners wouldn’t understand and “if they could lay hand on the man who was trying to set them free….they could “they would kill him.”
Likewise, when someone escapes from the shackles of Islam, those still in the darkness of this religion would not understand and if possible kill him for leaving Islam, and even more so if he were to try to enlighten them about the truth about Islam. For these people in Islam are chained to an empty imitation of truth and godliness.
OLD GUY says
Erdogan, check his DNA he maybe the son of HITLER, if not he’s sure following the NAZI play book. The people of Turkey need to get rid of this dictator before he gets a lot of his citizens killed.
E T says
Muslim scholars claim women’s minds are deficient, so he is just another son of a half wit. What is the final outcome of 1400 years of deficient mothers – – Erdogen the manic Muslim.
somehistory says
good point.
tim gallagher says
What an amazing choice of words by this piece of crap, Erdogan. “Meanness” towards Muhammmad. Oh, boo hoo, people are being mean to Muhammad. Muhammad murdered people, and Islam’s adherents go on murdering non-Muslims endlessly, but this Turkish leader gets his knickers in a knot because some people say something “mean” about Muhammad. Maybe it is something to do with his not having English as his main language, but I thought, oh, there is a “meanness’ being displayed towards Muhammad, oh, how appalling!! Such a strange choice of words. As for freedom of speech in the genuine sense that you get in western democracies, (although it seems to be under threat these days), it will never ever exist in any Islamic country. Muslim countries would not recognise genuine, unfettered freedom of speech if it came up and bit them on the bum. It is a totally alien concept to Islam and it always will be.