Human rights lawyer and international security expert Irina Tsukerman joined Andrew E. Harrod on Conservative Casual Friday on New Year’s Day to discuss the recent decision by President Donald Trump’s administration to recognized Moroccan sovereignty over Western Sahara. Trump made this decision in the context of an agreement in which Morocco agreed to establish relations with Israel. Morocco has claimed the territory since independence from France in 1956 and has controlled it since 1975, when Spain relinquished this former colonial possession. From then until 1991, Morocco fought the POLISARIO Front, which has sought an independent Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic, before the United Nations (UN) brokered a ceasefire. The UN agreement foresaw a referendum over whether Western Sahara should become independent or part of Morocco. Tsukerman discussed with Harrod whether Trump made the right decision and what the future of Western Sahara should be.
Bjorn says
President Trump! Make Western Sahara independent. President Trump! It is right and high time that it is implemented!
Infidel says
Why? What’s the advantage to us in Western Sahara becoming independent? Just one more Arab muslim country? That would be a puppet of Algeria instead of Morocco?
Bjorn says
Have you not fought for independence in Western Sahara long enough through the Polisario? Why be a puppet of Algeria instead of Morocco? Do you not want to be independent of everyone?
Infidel says
Oh yeah, Western Sahara, Eastern Turkistan, Darfur, Kurdistan, Balochistan, Pashtunistan, Palestan, Hazarazat, Mindanaostan, the list goes on – I’ve struggled for all of them!!! However, allah disagreed, so who am i to question him? Alhamdulillah, or praise be to allah!
guenter says
Morocco occupied the Western Sahara, and if Trump does “recognise” this, its just another of his crimes. Here is a little knowledge for Mr. Spencer, Trump and the Trumpists: Western Sahara (Arabic: الصحراء الغربية aṣ-Ṣaḥrā’ al-Gharbiyyah; Berber languages: Taneẓroft Tutrimt; Spanish: Sáhara Occidental) is a disputed territory on the northwest coast and in the Maghreb region of North and West Africa. About 20% of the territory is controlled by the self-proclaimed Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic, while the remaining 80% of the territory is occupied and administered by neighboring Morocco. Its surface area amounts to 266,000 square kilometres (103,000 sq mi). It is one of the most sparsely populated territories in the world, mainly consisting of desert flatlands. The population is estimated at just over 500,000,[3] of which nearly 40% live in Laayoune, the largest city in Western Sahara.
Occupied by Spain until 1975, Western Sahara has been on the United Nations list of non-self-governing territories since 1963 after a Moroccan demand.[4] It is the most populous territory on that list, and by far the largest in area. In 1965, the United Nations General Assembly adopted its first resolution on Western Sahara, asking Spain to decolonize the territory.[5] One year later, a new resolution was passed by the General Assembly requesting that a referendum be held by Spain on self-determination.[6] In 1975, Spain relinquished the administrative control of the territory to a joint administration by Morocco (which had formally claimed the territory since 1957)[7] and Mauritania.[6] A war erupted between those countries and a Sahrawi nationalist movement, the Polisario Front, which proclaimed the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic (SADR) with a government in exile in Tindouf, Algeria. Mauritania withdrew its claims in 1979, and Morocco eventually secured de facto control of most of the territory, including all the major cities and natural resources. The United Nations considers the Polisario Front to be the legitimate representative of the Sahrawi people, and maintains that the Sahrawis have a right to self-determination.[8][9]
Infidel says
Thanks for the history/geography copy-pasta from Wiki. When there is no international recognition of actual distinct people like the Kurds or Balochs, why is the recognition of yet another Arab muslim country so important?
mgoldberg says
This also, doesn’t indicate a ‘crime’ by Trump, or ‘trumpists.’ It is problematic that a swarth of territory with no real governance by it’s own populations is subsumed by another neighboring nation. Mauritania vs Morocco, two muslim nations at each other. How long before the zionists get blamed for this too??
Bjorn says
Is it so that Morocco should be rewarded in this way for making friends with Israel?
Infidel says
Bjorn, you say it like it’s a bad thing!
Bjorn says
A bad thing? Sorry, I might have misunderstood You? What’s wrong with independence? You mention that it will be another Arab / Muslim country? But what difference does it make? The number of Arabs and Muslims is the same? I would like Western Sahara to be free and independent of this too!
guenter says
@mgoldberg: nobody here blamed the “zionists”; Iam pro-Israel. But I guess that Trump only got them into a new position towards Israel, by respecting their occupation of another territory, what is also not ok.—- and I think, Trump-Fans have other problems now; their hero was once more explored as a criminal liar:
SENSATIONAL BREAKING NEWS: TAPED 1-HOUR PHONECALL WHERE TRUMP URGES REP-OFFICIALS IN GEORGIA TO “FIND” MORE VOTES FOR HIM!!!
Here is the full hour-long audio of President Trump’s Saturday call with Georgia election officials. In the call, Trump asks the officials to “find” enough votes to overturn his defeat and threatened vague legal consequences if the officials did not act. (from Washinton Post)
Infidel says
Washington post is your source, and you call us conspiracy nuts? Get off our lawn!!!!
guenter says
infidel: this are all equal important cases. if u lived in an occupied country, u never had this quest about importance. and, the polisario is far more progressive than the moroccan monarchy. they are no islamists.
gravenimage says
The entire region is crawling with “Islamists”, including ISIS and Al Qaeda.
And probably what guenter likes best about Polisario is its Communist rhetoric. Western Sahara is not apt to be any sort of democracy, no matter what group winds up being nominally in power there.
And what are President Trump’s other “crimes”? He’s no Communist, certainly, and he’s been one of the most Anti-Jihadist of all Western leaders. Bad dhimmi!
Infidel says
As Gravenimage pointed out, Polisario is communist. Only difference is whether this almost empty ‘country’ gets to be run by Morocco or Algeria. Also, as I pointed out above, independent countries of people who don’t have one of their own should take precedence over yet another Arab Muslim country, regardless of whether it is Islamic or communist
Phil Copson says
The United Nations considers the Polisario Front to be the legitimate representative of the Sahrawi people, and maintains that the Sahrawis have a right to self-determination.
——————————————————————————————————–
Would this be same United Nations that works tirelessly against Israel with denunciations of non-existent human-rights violations against the non-existent “Palestinians”, but never has a word to say against real repression, imprisonment, torture, barbarism, and murder elsewhere ?
These days, the UN exists largely as a mechanism to transfer money and influence from the civilised world to the uncivilised world, and facilitate mass migration into the West to wreck it.
Kesselman says
Morocco is a better guardian of the vast territory in Sahara that otherwise could be another terrorist cache. Now we’re only waiting for the full implementation of Israeli sovereignty over a much smaller area, Judea and Samaria.
gravenimage says
Trump Recognizes Moroccan Sovereignty over Western Sahara: A Discussion with Security Expert Irina Tsukerman
………………..
Of course, no Muslim country is going to make peace with Israel unless they get money or land out of the deal.
guenter says
@hysterical shouter infidel: quicker as I expected, u explored urself as antidemocratic/dictatorial, trying to send anyone out of here who dont agree with you or trump. but to ur bad luck, washington post didnt spread a rumour, but posted the whole one-hour phone-call where trump tried to argue his partyfriends in georgia to “find more votes” for him; means, to falsificate the result. he is punishable by law.
and nonsense-girl gravenimage (“monopols dont excist in capitalism”) which cant be taken serious either, simply labels anyone as communist who dont agree with her andwho is not as fascist as trump. (today even all ex-defense ministers distanced from him. and more and more reps do. only scum is still in solidarity with him.) so, labelling polisario as communist is her trick to agree with moroccos occupation of that territory. bad dhimmie! but she forgot to label the washington post as communist, lol.
guenter says
@hysterical shouter Infidel: here is a small excerpt from trump´s phone-call with comment (not from WP). the whole 1-hour long call is in this style:
Trump used the language of a Mafia gangster in referring to a female election worker in Fulton County (Atlanta), who has been demonized on right-wing social media and repeatedly threatened after false allegations by the Trump campaign that she had triple-counted a stack of ballots from the heavily Democratic area.
After Raffensperger reiterated that there was no evidence of such actions and that Trump was mistaken, the president responded:
“So what are we going to do here folks? I only need 11,000 votes. Fellas, I need 11,000 votes. Give me a break. You know, we have that in spades already. Or we can keep it going but that’s not fair to the voters of Georgia because they’re going to see what happened and they’re going to see what happened. I mean, I’ll, I’ll take on to anybody you want with regard to [name of election worker] and her lovely daughter, a very lovely young lady, I’m sure.”
This is nothing less than a threat of physical violence against the election worker—whose name has been withheld—and her child, coming from the president of the United States, the “commander-in-chief” of a vast military and police apparatus, as well as the leader of the Republican Party, which has increasingly taken on the coloration of a fascist movement.
Infidel says
Good propaganda! But no, he didn’t urge anyone to find more votes for him: he raised various issues like:
– Not removing from voter rolls voters who’ve moved out of their addresses to other states. Something that Stacy Abram’s sister prevented from happening
– Refusing to allow signature matching on top of this, in the event that poll officials had to determine whether an absentee ballot was legit
– Rerunning rolls of ballots through voting machines to magnify Biden’s lead in certain precincts
These are just 3 of the issues he raised. Like the Ukraine phone call, CNN and their comrades, such as Guenter, are trying to spin it as Trump doing something criminal when he’s just warning that GA secretary of state that he’s letting a major scam go unchecked under his watch
guenter says
leaving aside that he even threatend the GA secretary , u whether didnt listen the phone-call or didnt understand the quotation out of it above, or u are a professional liar with intention. the rest what u claim is refuted since long and wasnt accepted by any court, including the supreme Court, most of this courts Rep.-dominated.
People who still believe the robber-pistol-stories of trump ,must be so sick in the brain, that they shall better consider their psychiatrist.
if i remember only that in the beginning they couldnt make up their mind, if they shall claim that russia or china or venezuela or cuba or northkorea or iran was “behind” the “stolen election”.
then they claimed, that the “manipulation” was done by a computer, standing in the US-military in Frankfurt/Germany.
It was claimed that it carried a programm to manipulate election results, developed by the CIA(!) and first used in venezuela to secure more votes for chavez! how mad is this? the CIA tried anything to finish chavez (and then maduro) and didnt help them. (oh sorry, i forgot that in ur paranoid world, the CIA &FBI are probably also communist infiltrated orgs now, right?)
then the mad story, published by the trumpists and also the far right in germany (their PI-news is located in bavaria) went on with the claim, that this PC could be secured to bring to USA, bu t5 soldiers had to be shut to get him.
To the bad luck of all of youn onsense-clowns, i live in frankfurt since decades. the little rest of the Us-army there is stationed at the airport, the most busy and most frequented place in F. its absolute impossible to shoot around there, kill 5 persons and nobody does notice or witness it and all the media remains silent. (sorry, i forgot that all the media in the western world, except breitbart, is communist and will hide the murder.)
But then, the US-Army (probably ideological closer to the Reps than to the Dems, I guess) issued an statement, saying that this stories are nonsense, and that the photo of the 5 “murdered” soldiers are soldiers who died in an helicopter crash in egypt last year.–
What say? Let me guess: the US-army is probably also an lying, secret commie org. now, right?
I guess, when trump finds out, that sunshine is green, u will believe it, right?
I wish all of you a good treatment for your twisted paranoid brains.
Rest in peace!
gravenimage says
guenter wrote:
@hysterical shouter infidel: quicker as I expected, u explored urself as antidemocratic/dictatorial, trying to send anyone out of here who dont agree with you or trump.
……………………..
How did Infidel try to “send [guenter] out of here” in his replies? As I have noted before, guenter appears to believe that anyone critically replying to him is an abridgement of his freedom of speech. But it is not–in fact, replying to the speech of others is itself a core part of freedom of speech. No real surprise that guenter is unable to grasp this.
More:
and nonsense-girl gravenimage (“monopols dont excist in capitalism”) which cant be taken serious either, simply labels anyone as communist who dont agree with her andwho is not as fascist as trump. (today even all ex-defense ministers distanced from him. and more and more reps do. only scum is still in solidarity with him.) so, labelling polisario as communist is her trick to agree with moroccos occupation of that territory. bad dhimmie! but she forgot to label the washington post as communist, lol.
……………………..
Firstly, guenter claiming that I wrote “monopols dont excist in capitalism” is *quite* false–for one thing, I am not so illiterate. Why would guenter pretend that this is a direct quote from my writings? God only knows.
What I *have* said is that no monopolies can exist under democracy. No company can hold a monopoly without government enforcement–they have no such power themselves, and democratic governments do not act like this.
So supposed “monopolies” like the BlackBerry and MySpace were anything but–once a better or more popular product or service came along, they lost market share or even disappeared all together. How is this obvious fact “nonsense”? Of course, guenter does not say.
As for Communism, he often rants here about how Robert Spencer is not flogging Marx and Trotsky to this satisfaction. The idea that this has nothing to do with Communism is simply laughable. (Never mind how absurd the claim that President Trump being a Fascist is).
But the main point is that save for a single occasion on Jihad Watch’s Facebook page some months back (where he got most of the details wrong, but let’s leave that aside), I have not seen anything here from guenter actually opposing Jihad. Certainly, he offers nothing on this thread–he is just fighting with Anti-Jihadists on off-topic mattes. Why is he even here?
guenter says
nonsense girl obviously infidel shouted “get off our lawn” so, wanting me out of here.
and when u claim that monopols dont excist in democracy, and consider the USA as democracy, then there shouldnt be these big monopols, right? just a little logic.
the rest of ur lies is not worth to reply (as if i ever had blamed spencer for not posting marx and trotsky!); u are well trained in twisting any word around.
that u didnt see any of my antijihad postings since a year on the frontpage (this here is the backpage of the FB-posting) since i posted one here, we all know.
and for ur claim to be off-topic: u never said so to all the others here or to urself or to mr.spencer when they posted endlessly about the US-election and other non-jihad releated subjects. u say this only to someone who disagrees with you.
of course neither u or infidel didnt know to say a word about my well refutation of 2 main trumpist stories around the election.
and of course anyone here -except me-is to coward to stand with his real name for what he is writing.
its senseless to waste any more word for such psychiatric cases.
Go home now with Donnie; the americans rejected the stupid trumpists. Your time is over.Face it.
Rest in Peace!
gravenimage says
More from guenter:
nonsense girl obviously infidel shouted “get off our lawn” so, wanting me out of here.
………………
guenter *does* realize that there are no lawns here on-line, doesn’t he? This from Infidel is *humorous*. He never called for guenter to be banned as he pretends (although God only knows why he continues to spew his off-topic bilge here).
More:
and when u claim that monopols dont excist in democracy, and consider the USA as democracy, then there shouldnt be these big monopols, right? just a little logic.
………………
There are no “monopols” here–or monopolies, either. For them to exist, this would mean that no competitors have been allowed to set up. This would either mean that private companies have somehow gained state powers and are preventing this, or that the state in democratic nations is preventing it. Of course, guenter has no evidence of either, because it does not exist. And as I noted, many supposed monopolies have had competitors set up and outperform them. How would this be possible if they were actual monopolies? guenter does not even bother to address this.
More:
the rest of ur lies is not worth to reply (as if i ever had blamed spencer for not posting marx and trotsky!); u are well trained in twisting any word around.
………………
Yes, guenter has done this–castigating Robert Spencer for not lauding Communists:
“what mr. spencer does shamelessly hide here from his readers, is, that he didnt quote “THE” trotskytes”
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2020/10/trotskyites-french-ruling-elite-is-whipping-up-an-atmosphere-of-anti-muslim-hysteria-in-wake-of-jihad-beheading#comment-2285701
and
“u better should not believe every lie ur master spencer tells here. all trotskyte and other far left groups in france did join the anti-islamic demonstration. and they will back the new anti-islamic laws in parliament- as always..”
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2020/10/trotskyites-french-ruling-elite-is-whipping-up-an-atmosphere-of-anti-muslim-hysteria-in-wake-of-jihad-beheading#comment-2285815
More:
that u didnt see any of my antijihad postings since a year on the frontpage (this here is the backpage of the FB-posting) since i posted one here, we all know.
………………
This is what guenter wrote when I asked him what anti-Jihad postings he was refering to:
“let me remind you that since we came across each other, you are to stupid to see my comments, likes and support on the starting site of jw. u always said u cant find it. ur prob, not mine”
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2020/10/north-carolina-leftist-who-wanted-to-kill-biden-to-save-bernie-had-pro-jihad-video-praised-9-11#comment-2287303
This makes it clear that he never said where these postings were, and refused to link to them. I ran accross that single comment of his on Jihad Watch’s Facebook page by accident, and not because he linked to it.
More:
and for ur claim to be off-topic: u never said so to all the others here or to urself or to mr.spencer when they posted endlessly about the US-election and other non-jihad releated subjects. u say this only to someone who disagrees with you.
………………
Not so. I have never had a problem with someone posting off-topic at times–it is when someone *never* posts Anti-Jihad comments here. guenter mostly attacks Anti-Jihadists here, including Wellington, Mortimer, Infidel, Giacomo Latta, and even Robert Spencer. He has even called me a “racist” for daring to note that Muslims commit Jihad terror. Just appalling.
More:
of course neither u or infidel didnt know to say a word about my well refutation of 2 main trumpist stories around the election.
………………
What? What stories is guenter babbling about now? If he wants me to reply to his comments, he has to provide links, or at the least provide the titles of the stories. Calling them “2 main trumpist stories” is meaningless.
More:
and of course anyone here -except me-is to coward to stand with his real name for what he is writing.
………………
Actually, guenter has refused to post his name here–not because he is concerned about Jihadists, but because peaceful Anti-Jihadists here supposedly represent a threat to him:
“so why shall i post my articles, which are indeed with my full name then, for the rightwingers and facists here, and for a sick twisted brain or professional falsificator like you? this could be dangerous..”
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2020/10/north-carolina-leftist-who-wanted-to-kill-biden-to-save-bernie-had-pro-jihad-video-praised-9-11#comment-2287360
So this is just ridiculous.
More:
its senseless to waste any more word for such psychiatric cases.
Go home now with Donnie; the americans rejected the stupid trumpists. Your time is over.Face it.
Rest in Peace!
………………
guenter has said many times that he will not reply to me–then he is back ranting against me again. Just bizarre.
And “Rest in Peace” doesn’t refer to someone being out of office–it refers to *their death*. Perhaps guenter does not know this–his grasp of English is pretty poor. But if he is now issuing death threats to Anti-Jihadists here, then this is a quite serious matter.