#BREAKING: The US Embassy in Kabul has urged US citizens to leave Afghanistan immediately.
— Megh Updates ? (@MeghUpdates) August 12, 2021
The Taliban takeover, while obviously in the offing for years, has come faster than anyone expected. This was because Western analysts have consistently downplayed the hold of Islam and Sharia upon the Afghan people, and thus consistently underestimated the Taliban, which they consider an “extremist” group when what it is really pushing is mainstream Islam.
mortimer says
Quote: “The Taliban takeover, while obviously in the offing for years, has come faster than anyone expected.”
No, I predicted this because I have been reading the public opinion surveys for Afghastlistan and I have been studying the comments of Afghans. Almost all Afghans UNCRITICALLY, if not MAGICALLY, believe in Sharia law and further believe with a childish simplicity that Allah bless the Afghans if they obey ‘Allah’s’ laws.
Most Afghans have no differences of religious doctrine with the Talibans, but they may have lots of PRACTICAL differences … for one, the Talibans don’t want a multi-party system and that is extremely important. Secondly, the Talibans believe in TERRORISM (K.8.60) and most Afghans are not fully committed to terrorism. Most Afghans want modern goods and services, but the Talibans only want a 7th century Islamic society … if it’s primitive, too bad. The Afghan people have not thought these matters through, but they will soon when the Talibans take all their modernity away … again.
Afghans know how vengeful the Talibans are, so they want to avoid conflict. However, that is not possible. Conflict with the Taliban is INEVITABLE and only a very strong central government can protect the Afghans from the dictatorship and terrorism of the Talibans.
A strong NATO presence must be maintained in Afghastlistan into the long term or a new terrorist threat will emerge. NATO must remain until Afghans are modernized in their thinking. Afghans must be de-Islamized.
PMK says
mortimer,
You say a strong NATO presence must stay in Afghanistan into the long term or a new terrorist threat will emerge. Afghans must be de-Islamized.
Well no one in the West can de-Islamize Afghans. They have to do it themselves.
They also have to fight the Taliban themselves. They did almost NOTHING to that end for the two decades we have been there. Whenever the Taliban confronted them, they melted away. We can’t help people who won’t help themselves.
You also said ‘most Afghans are not fully committed to terrorism’. What does that mean? Are they only partly committed to terrorism?
“Most Afghans want modern goods and services, but the Talibans only want a 7th century Islamic society … if it’s primitive, too bad. The Afghan people have not thought these matters through, but they will soon when the Talibans take all their modernity away … again.”
Exactly. But that’s their problem, not ours. They saw what the Taliban was capable of but they never did the heavy lifting necessary in the last two decades. If they want modern goods and services then they should take responsibility for their own lives. They should be willing to do the hard work to rid themselves of the curse of the Taliban. The fact remains they both believe in the same 7th century religion. They follow the same god. Afghans have more in common with the Taliban than they do with the West.
Lastly, even if NATO remained in Afghanistan, what can we do outside the five main cities? The area is rugged and villages are scattered everywhere. There’s a reason it’s known as the ‘graveyard of empires’. Afghanistan is a place on the map but its history and its physical terrain mean it can probably never be a truly united country. Government in Afghanistan needs to be organized at the local level, not out of Kabul and certainly not out of DC.
Infidel says
Since Turkey is still a part of NATO (regardless of whether or not they should be), let them be the sole ‘NATO’ presence in Afghanistan. One big advantage they have – if Erdogan and Imran lived in the same city, they’d be bedmates. So let Turkey remain, and get all the help from Pakistan – which this time will be for real, given Turkey’s political support to Pakistan against India, and do what it can in Afghanistan
gravenimage says
You can’t de-Islamize a place that is 100% Muslim–all you can do is isolate them. I don’t want to see any more Infidels die there.
James Lincoln says
gravenimage,
100% true.
The United States should realized that back in 2001…
gravenimage says
+1
Jim says
Well, it seems as though Afghanistan has simply been given up. Just how responsible is America or Nato for protecting against the Taliban, and for how long? A century or a thousand years? Forever?
It might have been wiser to leave the Russians in control and not to support the rebels. But that was a long time ago. Half a century, almost. Too late to change that. Perhaps the Chinese can get tied up in it, to their own misfortune.
Infidel says
Yeah, I sure hope that Beijing gets involved nose deep and that it becomes China’s tarbaby. Somehow, I hope that the Taliban gets in bed w/ the Uyghur jihadists, whatever they’re called, thereby provoking China
gravenimage says
Your idea that the Soviet Union de-Islamized Afghanistan is mistaken.
Infidel says
Yeah, actually, Afghanistan under Zahir Shah was like Iran under Reza Pahlavi. It was quasi-secular, in that the country was just trying to become a semi-modern country. Once the Soviets occupied it, the only real resistance came from the jihadist groups, so that once the Soviets left, they were the ones left w/ the default power
gravenimage says
Infidel, the Jihadists make up a large part of the Muslim population.
Infidel says
There are still US citizens (not counting military personnel yet to withdraw, or Special Forces troops) in Afghanistan? Who do they think they are, Ariel Bradley?
In fact, why is our embassy in Kabul still open: we’re inviting a rerun of Teheran 1979 in Kabul. Close it down (as well as the one in Islamabad) and have the embassy in Tajikistan manage both Afghanistan and Pakistan
roberta says
”In fact, why is our embassy in Kabul still open:”
Hard to believe. Begging for a repeat. Practically on their knees begging a repeat.
Keith O says
I can think of one simple reason why the US still has people in the Ghan.
Sleazy Joe’s incompetence!
GreekEmpress says
Jimmy Carter 2.0.
Iran 1979 all over again.
I’m afraid it will be Benghazi on steroids—
Infidel says
I think it has more to do w/ the State Department being as incompetent as it’s always been
roberta says
One would think that the staff there would have enough brains and self preservation to get out on their own. I need no permission to save my own skin.
They are playing a role in their own demise.
Kagman says
Our mission was to kill Bin Laden and stabilize the country. We’ve accomplished both those tasks… If the locals cannot defend their turf after we won it, leave them to their fate…… The Taliban represents no threat to this nation as things stand. If they start supporting terror again bomb them back to the stone age… No mercy for civvies – If and when that point arrives, they will no longer be our allies… as if they ever were.
PMK says
I wouldn’t bomb them back to the stone age. It’s just a waste of money and it would put American soldiers at risk.. We keep hearing we have to fight them over there so we don’t have to fight them over here. We wouldn’t have to fight them over here if we stopped letting Muslims (of any nationality) even enter the US. If they need refugee status there are dozens of Muslim countries they can apply to.
Infidel says
I wouldn’t quite claim that we have ‘stabilized the country’, but that was always impossible. We should have started the complete withdrawal in 2011 after killing Osama, and maybe pounding Pakistan heavily in retaliation for having pulled a fast one on us, like take out their nuke sites as well as their cantonment in Abbottabad
GFF says
see also, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58195286 “Afghanistan: UK troops sent to get Britons out as Taliban advances”
Walter Sieruk says
Yes, it’s a very good idea for all US citizens to immediately leave Afghanistan. This is because those vicious vengeful jihadists who make up the Taliban will, no doubt, a soon as they gain control on that country will come after any Americans with a hatful spite of brutal malice which includes torture and murder.
Furthermore, three important things should be mentioned, as they are below.
First aggressive vicious and hostile Taliban won’t stop until they take over all of Afghanistan. They will violate the terms of the peace agreement, for they have no honor.
Second. the brutal, cruel and despicable Taliban are totally evil. They have proven this, time and time again, by own wicked and malicious behavior.
Third, it’s totally absurd and unrealistic of Joe Biden and other governmental leftists to feel that a genuine lasting peace agreement can be made with and kept with those cruel misogynistic Muslim monsters.
Politicallyincorrectistruth says
vicious vengeful jihadists
hatful spite of brutal malice which includes torture and murder.
aggressive vicious and hostile Taliban
brutal, cruel and despicable Taliban are totally evil
wicked and malicious behavior.
cruel misogynistic Muslim monsters.
gravenimage says
US Embassy in Kabul urges US citizens to leave Afghanistan immediately
…………..
They should have left 19 years ago. Hope everyone gets out safe, though.
sidney penny says
Robert Spencer, are you underestimating the role of Pakistan in the support and success of the Taliban?
Yes, Western analysts have consistently downplayed the hold of Islam and Sharia upon the Afghan people, they also have downplayed the role of Pakistan in the support of the Taliban?
What is the role of Afghans who support Sharia and Islam and who are Muslims but do not support the Taliban?
Infidel says
sidney
While Pakistan did empower the Taliban during the Bush years, they’ve had a fallout, since the Taliban supports the Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan, which is their Paki branch, and they also support a Pashtunistan nation, which would unite Pashtun parts of both Pakistan and Afghanistan. So this time, a Taliban takeover of Pakistan would end up being bad for the Pakis, despite Imran Khan himself being a Pashtun and formerly having good relations w/ them
At this point, it’s irrelevant to us who ends up in power in Kabul. But we should shut down our embassy in both Afghanistan and Pakistan, and have our embassy in Tajikistan manage anything that needs to be managed
gravenimage says
+1
Jim says
If Biden says he is doing something good, we have to believe the opposite. He is possibly taking orders from Obama, and we know how well he defends embassies and consulates. So what did we expect. Why did we elect this clown? Or did we?
OLD GUY says
The State Department is just another mismanaged government fat cat agency. Every time the government sets up another agency they tend to become self serving and only interested growing their power and funding.