America under Biden has become a global laughingstock. While China castigated America for its “ill planned” withdrawal in Afghanistan, Putin has opined that America has achieved “a zero result, if not negative” in Afghanistan.
At least some of the tens of billions of dollars in aircraft and military equipment that were left for the Taliban is now being turned over to Iran.
Putin’s description of the Biden debacle can more accurately be described as catastrophic, so much so that it looks like sabotage.
“Putin says US achieved ‘zero’ in Afghanistan,” Al Jazeera, September 1, 2021:
The United States’ 20-year campaign in Afghanistan ended in tragedies and Washington achieved nothing, Russian President Vladimir Putin has said, adding that the US army’s attempt to ingrain their norms in Afghanistan was futile.
Speaking on Wednesday at a meeting with teenagers in the Russian far eastern city of Vladivostok to mark the start of the school year, he said: “American troops were present on that territory (of Afghanistan) for 20 years, and over those 20 years they were trying – this can be said without offending anyone – to civilise the local people, but in fact, to impose their norms and standards of life in the broadest sense of this word, including the political organisation of society.
“The only result is tragedies and losses for those who were doing that – for the United States – and especially for the people who live on the territory of Afghanistan. This is a zero result, if not negative.”
It is “impossible to impose anything from outside”.
The Russian leader has a track record of criticising Western countries for trying to impose their values on non-Western nations and Moscow has regularly slammed US policy in Afghanistan, which is now controlled by the Taliban after its takeover.
The group shocked Western leaders and observers with its rapid advance ahead of the American pullout on August 31.
Last week, Putin said Russia would not interfere in Afghanistan and that Moscow had learned from the Soviet occupation of the country. Moscow fought a 10-year war in Afghanistan that ended with the Soviet troops’ withdrawal in 1989.
Putin has also complained about Western countries trying to place Afghan refugees in Moscow-allied Central Asian states, fearing that “radical Islam” would spill over into nations he is friendly with….
Wellington says
The only positive result America achieved in Afghanistan was going in there to root out al-Qaeda right after 9/11—and which America largely did in a matter of weeks, at most months. Thereafter, America should have left, though with a pledge to come back temporarily if any extra nefarious Islamic forces (read here Islamic entities seeking world-wide dominion) appeared again.
Instead, the forever ignorant Bush 43 (I one time admired him and voted for him twice as President but those sentiments are long passed and have been for years now). So, thus and verily, though I have many reservations about Putin, I think him correct that America achieved “zero result” in Afghanistan. In fact, it might quite arguably be worse than zero since the doofus Biden, supported by other buffoons like Milley and Astin, left so much military equipment behind (Americans too) in their cowardly exodus from yet another terminally ignorant region of the Earth as long as Islam dominates.
Vladimir says
Worse than zero, indeed. Unless the goal now is to install a Jihadi Emirate in the heart of Eurasia, to give Islamic trouble to the Russians and Chinese and peoples of Central Asia, in which case the plan is succeeding so far in it’s early days.
Vicky says
I was thinking the same. All that military equipment was abandoned for a reason.
mortimer says
China and Russia will then have to invade Afghastlistan in order to quell the jihadists. Whoever does this, it will be necessary to fight the Taliban again within two years at most. They are at war with the world.
There is no valid reason why Afghanistan cannot be occupied by several countries as happened to defeated WWII Germany. Foreign troops are still stationed there.
Russia and NATO should coordinate their occupation of Afghastlistan and allow the country to develop itself and educate its peoples. The job was abandoned when it was half-done.
As well, NATO and the Commonwealth have to deal with Pakistan for sabotaging the nation-building that was interrupted by the Taliban sheltering in Pakistan.
Pakistan caused this downfall.
Infidel says
Mortimer
In that case, Russia can subcontract that job of occupying Afghanistan to Uzbekistan, and China can subcontract Pakistan to do that job. In the latter case, since Pakistan is underwater as far as debt to China goes, they’d have no choice but obey. Of course, they could play a double game, so Beijing would have to monitor them closely. I’m sure they could use the Great Firewall of China, or whatever its surveillance equivalent is, to do that
gravenimage says
Vladimir, the situation is about the same as after your Soviets pulled out.
James Lincoln says
gravenimage,
I know that the Soviets left a fair amount of military equipment behind in Afghanistan after finishing their total pull-out in 1989.
Do you know of any list of this equipment – or its condition / value at the time?
Infidel says
James
It would seem the parallels were pretty strong. The Soviets left a lot of arms for the regime of Najibullah that they had installed, and when that regime transferred power to the Mujahideen, then the resultant Afghan army inherited everything. But it took 3 years b/w the Soviet withdrawal and the collapse of their puppet regime. That’s in sharp contrast to here, where the regime collapsed even before we left
TruthWFree says
Totally agree with you on everything you said, Bush, Putin’s comments and the ILLEGAL doofus we have in OUR White House. We are in danger with Biden at the wheel…or whoever is pulling his strings.
gravenimage says
Agreed, Wellington.
GenEarly says
Obamy is The Resident, Biden is the Puppet. Just like the Creation of ISIS in Syria-Iraq, the CiA and Obamy have created the return of the “Talleybon” to Afghanistan via Pakistan.
Next batter up is Chyna. we’ll see how they do. Probably better than the USSR and USSA.
At least the Globalists are happy and the DC Swampster Military Corporists have been well fed with our money and blood.
Walter Sieruk says
How can Putin be so naive ,unaware and uninformed that say such a unrealistic thing ?
Could it be that he said that out of “hopeful thinking”
Nevertheless, this is as a good time as any reiterate that what Westerners view as “Radical Islam,” with all its violence and killing , is actually the a hard core Qu’ ran based Islam . Surah 2;191. 4:89. 5:33. 9: 5,111,123.
In contrast ,what Westerners see as “Moderated Islam” , with its followers being , mild ,non-violent, is really a watered -down , a not so totally Qu ‘ran based Islam
, ,
Vladimir says
President Putin is a smart man. What do you want him to do, what with millions of Russian citizens of Muslim descent? We conquered them to stop their raids and slave taking and attempted conquests of Russia. Now when some get out of line the law and the armed forces come down on the militants. What else can be done that is both sensible and merciful?
Infidel says
Don’t be merciful. Do to them what Stalin did to the Crimean Tatars: kick them into Kazakhstan. In fact, just like you annexed the Crimea, annex the northern non-Kazakh part of Kazakhstan, which is the Steppes and heavily Russian populated
Ideal thing that the -stans should have done post 1991: the Turkic Sunni ones – Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan and Turkmenistan – should have united into one country Turkistan, w/ either Tashkent or Buqhara as their capital. Samarqand should have gone to Tajikistan, so that there would have been no glorifying Tamerlane. Then Turkistan would have been one viable country, that could have protected itself from Afghanistan, Iran and China
gravenimage says
Vladimir, your idea that Putun has to appease and suck up to Muslims and that this is a smart thing is disturbing.
Then, far from getting tough with violent Muslims, he has rewarded them by allowed them to create a Shari’ah state right on Russian soil. This is worse than anything in the west. How is this a good thing? The impliction that this is sensible is really appalling.
GenEarly says
Uh, “Worse than anything in the West”. .Are you kidding???
Germany, France, Belgium, Sweden, Canada, England, and Yes here in the USSA ,like Dearbornstan, Nashville, TN, etc Wake Up the Islamist have performed their Invasion Jihad on the West. Appalling is Correct,
TruthWFree says
Putin is a smart man. It is a shame we have ignorant dummies at the top in our government. Trump would not have allowed this national disgrace to happen. America is in danger with Biden ILLEGALLY in OUR White House from enemies, foreign and domestic.
Wellington says
Agree with all you stated, though I wish that Putin, who is a very clever man, was clever in the same way the Founding Fathers of America were.
Alas, he is not. No Russian in charge has ever been with the exception of Stolypin (and some allowances made for Alexander II and Alexander III)—and he was assassinated.
gravenimage says
TruthWFree, how is lauding Islam and claiming it as a bulwark against the “decadent” west a smart thing?
Frank Anderson says
I have big news for Putin and all the misguided, ignorant, uninformed fools pretending that there is a “radical” islam: There is not. The only difference is that some are willing to wait and sneak up behind the people who believe in radical islam to show them that all islam teaches the same murder, conquest, slavery and death. Don’t take my word for anything. See for yourself if you don’t understand. Islam is a criminal conspiracy that has endured 1400 years, masquerading as a religion.
Wellington says
“See for yourself if you don’t understand.”
But this is precisely much of the problem, Frank. Fools aplenty do not understand and they will remain in stupid mode and will utterly refuse to understand no matter how much evidence is presented them. Guaranteed.
One of many reasons why, contra Christianity, which I admire in many ways, I am not a Christian. I don’t want to love everyone. Much of the human race is despicable, will always be this way, and thus in this regard the Christian ethic is naive, sometimes downright suicidal.
Frank Anderson says
W., we share the same challenge with each other over delusional people who won’t make the effort to escape their imagination. There is an argument, which has some merit, that Christianity was taken by Emperor Constantine to increase his control over a submissive population. That is the contrast I observe between islam and Christianity, one is the religion of brutal warriors, the other of submissive slaves. And Jews are caught in the middle with many teachings directing repeated questioning of everything, “even to the very Existence of God!”. Yet I suspect we both work hard to help many Christian friends. Who said having minds and free thought was going to be easy? Our best hope is to trigger a few out of their Viktor Frankl “delusion of reprieve” into asking the questions that I asked after 7 years of utter ignorance about the “religion of peace”. It got me sent away from one community, and may others. But so?
Wellington says
I thank you for that subtle and sapient response, Frank. There is much merit in what you averred.
But how many will listen to what you have to say? Ah, therein lies the rub of rubs.
Perhaps Macbeth’s soliloquy beginning with “Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow…” best sums up human life on Earth. I know virtually all religions assert otherwise but I have long thought Shakespeare wiser than any religious literature I have ever read. However, I could be wrong, but I wonder how many religious people would admit to a similar possible “error.”
Hell, certainly not the Taliban and other “devout” Muslims. They don’t want to listen to anything but their own opinions–and they will kill you if you disagree with them.
Put another way, one Shakespeare is worth the entire collection of Taliban x ten. No, let me up the ante: One Shakespeare is worth far more than the entire collection of Islamic thought through the ages. Yeah, here I’ll rest. I feel comfortable and confident in doing so.
Frank Anderson says
W., we swim in a sea of Christians. Our goal is to help them because many of them are important to us. There is much wisdom to be found both in Christianity and Judaism, including measured, but limited tolerance and patience. Our goal, certainly shared is to apply a number of teachings we received from many sources.
I have an honored friend still in my memory, who is no longer living. He had a day for me when nobody else, and I mean nobody, had 5 minutes. Among other great accomplishments in his life, he was the most talented Masonic ritualist I have ever seen. I followed him in the script where he had the longest memory part in the longest degree (play) in ALL of freemasonry, “I will lead the blind on a way that they knew not; along paths which they have not been. I will make dark things light before them; and crooked things straight. All these things I will do unto them; and NOT forsake them.”
We light candles one at a time where we find them. Each person who does start seeing for himself is another candle. I am such a candle starting in 2008. “It is better to light one candle than to curse the darkness.” Darkness wins if we don’t try.
Wellington says
On the specific matter of wisdom in Judaism and Christianity, I agree, Frank. No other religions have placed such an importance on the dignity and worth of the individual person as have these two religions—and which is why, as I have long argued, they work best with the democratic tenets invented by the ancient Greeks.
The entire sum of the Western intellectual tradition is actually just two “ingredients”—Greek philosophical and political thought in combination with ancient Jewish religious thought. Miss this, as I said to my students for decades, and you will miss the essence of Western Civilization. And no group of human beings grasped this better than the Founding Fathers of America, steeped as they were in knowledge of the Bible and classical civilization (N.B., guaranteed Biden and his “handlers” are utterly clueless of this all).
And thanks for that personal note about that deceased friend of yours. It was poignantly stated.
Frank Anderson says
W., he earns that memory every day.
gravenimage says
Frank and Wellington–with the greatest of respect to you both–the idea that all Christians are submissive slaves is not borne out. There is also no indication that any Roman Emperor would actually want a population of passive slaves incapable to defending the Empire.
Frank Anderson says
GI, look at the use of Christianity under Constantine and those who followed. Islam has made the contrast between it and Christianity for 1400 years, with some measure of merit. It might help to see the difference between “all” and general results. ROMAN Catholicism was hardly ever a religion promoting free thought among the normal, “low class” individuals. Free thought was and is reserved for the exalted leadership, and prohibited to others. The defined perfection of its Pope has been used to control all who wish to remain in its community. Look how easy it is to be excommunicated. Just ask the wrong question or make the wrong comment, and you are out. How is it that right now a pope is getting away with betraying those he is supposed to protect, abandoning them to the slavery and death of islam? It could be beneficial to read or read again Constantine’s Sword and perhaps even Burton Mack’s Who Wrote the New Testament. In this life, there are no perfect people; and questions always lead to better, but not perfect answers, even for the Jews who taught me that and then sent me on my way for asking questions. Always with love, friendship and best wishes. Frank.
Wellington says
Gravenimage: I never stated that all Christians are submissive slaves or anything like that. What I did state was that the idea of loving most everyone is a feature of Christianity and this particular directive of Christianity is simply not one I can abide by. And sometimes it can even be a suicidal directive.
gravenimage says
Frank, I am neither Catholic nor a Catholic apologist. That being said, Catholicism was *never* as unfree as Islam.
Frank Anderson says
GI, I claim many very dear and close Catholic friends, including my half-brother, I agree with you that the present comparison of intolerance between Christianity and islam favors Christianity. But look please at the history of the Catholic church, especially the Inquisition and the killing and torture that makes the comparison less stark. Also, remember the German drive to subdue and replace Christianity before and during WWII. But the conclusion remains necessary that free thought is required to resist ALL forms of slavery and tyranny; and that many, if not every, communities have much to learn about letting people think. If I can identify a single reason WE have so much trouble getting people to understand the goals, history and danger we face now, it is the brainwashing so many have received to take orders instead of thinking. Thinking is really hard work; and quite dangerous.
gravenimage says
I take your point, Wellington. But the Christian directive to love your enemies has not prevented many Christians from fighting those enemies when threatened–often very successfully. None of us would be free today if many Christians had not fought Islam–at Poitiers, at Lepanto, at the Gates of Vienna and more.
gravenimage says
Agreed, Frank. I know my history, including some of the unfortunate Catholic suppression of freedom of speech and conscience over the centuries. But I still doubt that Constantine chose to first decriminalize Christianity and then convert to it himself because of this. For one thing, before it was an official religion, Christianity had no power.
Then, the Roman Empire and official paganism–much as I admire many aspects of Classical culture–was *hardly* a consistent bastion of freedom of conscience itself. Recall the terrible persecution of Christians at times under Rome before Constantine.
Wellington says
Gravenimage: I think we’re very close here on this one. My specific objection is to the theory in Christianity about loving thy enemy, turning the other cheek, etc. I won’t do this and do not agree with this Christian directive.
And indeed, this has not stopped untold numbers of Christians, as you pointed out, from taking on forces arrayed against them, but consider if all Christians were like the Amish, Quakers, Shakers and other pacifist groups that can be found among Christians through the ages (and yes, I know that during the American Revolution the Quakers split on this very matter, some willing to fight and others not but in the Pennsylvania colonial legislature berore the Revolution Quakers aplenty gave Benjamin Franklin and others fits because they even refused to provide money for forts on the frontier to protect against Indian raids, some of which were quite savage). The West simply would not have survived and thus a “muscular” Christian is such in spite of the directive to love everyone and not because of it. Interestingly with Islam, the situation is exactly the opposite, i.e., the peaceful Muslim who will not force submission to Islam and who is thus ignoring a major aspect of Islam precisely because Islam counsels submission before any peace can ensue.
Ideologically speaking I would contend that both Christianity and Islam are in error on the matter of love—the one too much and the other not nearly enough. Though as you know I think Christianity an infinitely superior religion to Islam and find many virtues in it, contra Islam. Thanks for the exchange.
nicholas tesdorf says
Like a Virus, Islam spreads everywhere bringing pain and suffering. Sturdy measures are required to eradicate the threat to civilisation everywhere.
Infidel says
I know that few on this site admire Putin, but on this issue, he happens to be right. Even if it’s gloating at potential payback on us for the Soviet debacle in Afghanistan
I don’t think he needs to fear about the Taliban influencing the -stans: 3 of them – Tajikistan, Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan – have their ethnic brethren in Afghanistan who are all opposed to the Pashtun dominated Taliban. Twenty years haven’t changed the Taliban’s ethnic composition
gravenimage says
Putin: US achieved ‘zero result’ in Afghanistan, fears ‘radical Islam’ will spill into friendly Central Asian states
…………
If the ‘Stans are so friendly, how are they apt to become ‘radicalized’?
Besides, Putin has said before that Islam is a buffer against “decadent” westerners. His having a problem with them now makes no sense.
Mr x says
Putin is right, usa has achieved nothing in Afghanistan. After spending trillions of dollars the Taliban and al Qaeda are still present. The manner in which usa left sends a very bad signal to all our allies. This will be definitely considered as a victory by the taliban. This withdrawal has only made the Taliban and other terrorist organization stronger.
Giacomo Latta says
‘Putin has also complained about Western countries trying to place Afghan refugees in Moscow-allied Central Asian states, fearing that “radical Islam” would spill over into nations he is friendly with’
Perhaps he should encourage his brother-in-tyranny Lukashenko to stop forcing gullible ”guests” from various points in the world where the locals dream of a lifetime Eurpoean vacation into neighbouring European Union countries.
Peter35 says
All this talk about ‘civilizing’ Afghanis and making the country a democracy is just pie in the sky nonsense which is doomed to fail before it starts.
Fgs, have you people learnt nothing about moslems over the last 4-5 decades?
We’re talking moslems here; people with no concept of democracy, but who believe the koran, to the exclusion of everything else.
Afghanistan cannot be civilized until the medieval, stultifying scourge of islam is vanquished; and that goes also for all 56-57 countries presently polluted by the evil cult.