I guarantee you that no one will say the obvious truth: the term “Islamophobia” is an illegitimate conflation of two distinct phenomena: crimes against innocent Muslims, or discrimination against them, neither of which is ever justified, and honest analysis of the motivating ideology of jihad terror, which is always necessary. Islamic advocacy groups and their Leftist allies have been insisting for years that such analysis, too, constituted “Islamophobia.” And they mean to silence it and force the West to adopt what are in essence Sharia blasphemy restrictions.
“Westminster Hall to hold a general debate on the definition of Islamophobia,” UK Parliament, August 31, 2021 (thanks to Henry):
On Thursday 9 September, MPs hold a general debate the definition of Islamophobia in Westminster Hall.
A full transcript of the debate which be available three hours after the debate on Commons Hansard.
The Backbench Business Committee meets weekly on Tuesdays to consider requests for debates from any backbench Members of Parliament on any subject.
The Committee then has to decide how to allocate the limited Parliamentary time it has at its disposal. The Committee’s meetings are always conducted in public and can be watched on Parliament TV.
The Backbench Business Committee continues to field applications for debates from MPs.
Infidel says
While violent crimes against innocent muslims may never be justified, I won’t say the same about discrimination against them. Indeed, given what we know about muslims from at least the last 20, if not the last 1400 years, discrimination against them may sometimes well be necessary! Like Sri Lanka has imposed a ban on burials, as well as eating beef, which primarily targets them. India’s CAA law, similarly, does justifiably discriminate against muslims from the neighboring muslim countries, which is what India’s secular crowds have been railing against. Given that only muslims, or converts to islam, engage in jihad, we need to discriminate against muslims in order to control them
As pointed out on this site and others ad nauseum, the term ‘islamophobia’ is itself illegitimate for other reasons: it implies an irrational fear of islam. But given everything we know about islam and muslims, there’s nothing irrational about it. If one recoils on seeing a ladybug or a butterfly, that would be a phobia. But if one recoils on seeing a scorpion, it wouldn’t be. Similarly, just b’cos a fear of either Christianity or Buddhism or Judaism or Hinduism is irrational and therefore phobic does not imply that similar reactions towards islam/muslims would be as well
somehistory says
Infidel,
I agree. There once was a saying that a person could have a “discriminating taste.” Basically, one could be accustomed to **thinking** and contemplating the different aspects of a matter before deciding on a course of action or acceptance.
I would not wish to rent from a mozlum, rent to a moslum, work for a mozlum, nor have them work for me. I have been “treated” by some of them in the medical field…and it was very unpleasant and unclean. I have worked alongside them, and had issues with their actions and words toward me.. I would not want my family members to have them as teachers, doctors, nurses, or in food prep, etc.
There are way too many things to think about and consider that would prove to be detrimental to me should I choose to do those things.
I would not go out intentionally to harm anyone. I never have. But, in the matter of self-defense, there has to be knowledge of whom to be wary and avoid if possible.
This is not a phobia…it’s a fact. If anyone sees a need for change here, it should be the mozlums who make those changes. I won’t.
savvyone says
somehistory, I am in absolute agreement with everything you said. I could not have said it any better.
somehistory says
Thank you, savvyone.
Infidel says
Somehistory, 3 years ago, an Afghan who later became my neighbor asked me whether I’d be willing to have him as a roommate. I flatly declined, telling him that I wasn’t looking for one. Even if I were, I wouldn’t take a muslim roommate
somehistory says
Infidel,
I completely understand. I have had so many experiences with mozlums…that is where I cam up with the “somehistory” thing, as I have **some** history with mozlums…I wouldn’t voluntarily do anything with a mozlum, and no way would I agree to actually room with one.
I worked for some…awful, stealing from me, managing to get my mail and go through it, threatening me, etc. And I worked where a mozlum woman was a supervisor…that was terrible, as she gave me the worst job assignments and laughed whenever I had any kind of problem. I couldn’t take it for very long, and quit.
When I was a school bus driver, an Egyptian mozlum was my attendant for a day or two. He glared at me, didn’t help with the kids and complained about how we don’t share living space as they do in *his* country…40 to an apartment, whereas, we only have one or two even in big houses.
I would rather be in a room with insects. At least they act on instinct and not with evil intent.
gravenimage says
Smart, Infidel.
somehistory says
Btw, I was bitten once by a ladybug. It hurt a little bit, but I don’t fear them even now. Nor do I avoid them.
mortimer says
BITTEN BY LADYBUG, but not ‘PHOBIC’.
How can a common reaction to Islam – in this case, an “unfounded fear of and hostility towards Islam”, to use CAIR’s definition of Islamophobia — be a constant aspect of Islam’s fourteen-hundred year history, and yet still be regarded as “unfounded”?
Where there’s smoke (for 1400 years), there’s fire.
Infidel says
I tend to recoil at most insects. As a kid, I did sometimes have ladybugs walk over my hands but not bite me. But I was once stung by a wasp, and as a result, recoil at most insects – be it wasps, roaches, cicadas, butterflies and so on
somehistory says
I had never heard of a lady bug bite, so when it happened, I was surprised. I’ve had lots of butterflies alight and walk around on my skin, but no bites…they do try for a taste with their tongue, though.
I have been stung by honey bees and am highly allergic to that,(another sting could kill me) so I am a little fearful when one gets too close…hard not to try to bat it away, but I do duck and weave..
Wasps and hornets have also had a go at me, as well as various kinds of biting flies. Had to get a shot at the ER for one episode of yellow fly bites.
And all kinds of ants, the most painful was a sting that hurt all night long.
Found a scorpion in a shoe once, but the strangest thing I’ve ever had was a bite by a worm that I was putting on a fishing hook. That really hurt.
I am not afraid of mozlums….I just hate what they carry around with them in their hearts and minds, and it disgusts and angers me that they want to spread their filth and force it on everyone else. They have satan’s agenda; and I oppose it and that demon snake. Therefore, I oppose them.
gravenimage says
I have to admit that before now I hadn’t realized that ladybugs ever bit.
Wellington says
I agree, Infidel. The West all along should have discriminated against Muslims the same way it understandably and deservedly discriminated against Nazis and Marxists, i.e., not disallowing belief in such a rotten ideology but putting all those on notice who adhere to this particular rotten ideology, i.e., Islam, that we know what their belief system has to say about such great matters as liberty and equality under the law, as well as having a religious legal system, which unlike other religious legal systems such as Canon Law and Judaic Law, is meant for EVERYONE and not just believers.
This would include as well, of course, prohibition of Muslims immigrating to the West, similar to prohibitions respecting such other losers as skinheads, Neo-Nazis, anarchists, committed Marxists, Antifa members, et al. What a damn shame the West at large has gone into stupid mode about Islam. Well, to be expected because the West is now largely run by the worst kind of stupid people, i.e., well educated and ambitious stupid people. Joe Biden comes foremost to mind, though there are many other “worthy” contenders here.
somehistory says
Wellington,
If one studies the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament), it is clear that only in the Land of Israel were non Jews required to obey certain Laws that were given to the Jews, but they also benefited from these, such as the law on gleaning. The non-Jew was free to leave if he objected.
If the Jews moved to another land, they were still to keep the Law, but they weren’t instructed to force anyone else to do so.
Christians, wherever one lives, are to obey the secular laws of the land, but all Laws given to them by Christ and His Father come first, so if there is a conflict, God’s Laws are obeyed and not those of men. Invitations are made to others, but no force or threats of violence. There is Freedom in these two expressions of Faith.
This is so much better than anything islam has to…would write offer, but it doesn’t “offer,” it demands by force and threats of death. Like the mafia, “an offer you can’t refuse.”
Would that we could just ask islam’s adherents to go back from whence they came and they would do so. But, snakes don’t listen to requests, nor do they abide by the freedoms the rest of us choose.
gravenimage says
Good exchange.
mortimer says
Reply to Wellington: “The West all along should have discriminated against Muslims the same way it understandably and deservedly discriminated against Nazis and Marxists”
Wellington is actually calling for an intellectual counter-argument to Islam by Western intellectuals (such as what Robert Spencer is doing).
However, this counter-argument should be in the universities and to a large degree it is not, because the universities have been subjugated by neo-Marxists who see Islam as a wrecking ball for destroying Western civilization!
However, I think we in the counter-jihad, despite a lack of cash to finance the presentation of our arguments, are being heard by more and more people. I believe the truth cannot be held back forever, just as the deluded King Canute could stop the incoming tide.
I should point out to Wellington, that as he knows, the dogmas of Marxism are still adamantly defended in spite of the catastrophic failure of Marxist countries and their amoral destruction of millions of dissenters. Islam is a complex, amoral and contradictory ideology as is Marxism.
Islam is filled with contradictions and incoherencies that make it a slippery fish to pin down, to easily discuss and to easily refute. Most people yawn during discussions of the incoherencies of Islam and most of it goes over their heads.
I believe (as did Sigmund Freud) that rational thought will eventually be heard and successfully deconstruct Islam causing its collapse. We should all do our part, especially PhDs who have a greater credibility than mere well-read people who speak out against jihadism and discriminatory Sharia..
born saturday says
first things first islamophobia is a word invented from xenophobia, which is a greek word that derives from xeno, foreign, and phobia… only xenophobia does not mean phobia of the xeno but rather disgust… these are the true meanings i am greek and these are all greek words…. so islamophobia would originally translate to disgust of islam not phobic about it…. however the real phobias that are imposed are the phobia of being free the phobia of expressing your views the phobia of being branded racist bigoted and all the rest… those are the phobias… therefore this frankenstain word goes back to the people who use it as they are the ones who fear islam and therefore cooperate with it regardlessly….
mortimer says
True. An intellectual analysis of a subject is not a psychological phobia. It is scientific inquiry. Muslims who are afraid the consequences of Sharia laws are ISLAMOPHOBIC … those erring Muslims fear what other Muslims will do to them … as they feared ISIS and the Taliban.
Keys says
Will there be payoffs, bribes, and contributions before the debate ? Bitchin’ and lying ?
Islamophobia is a Leftist politically correct accusation (as is being of the oppressed class), and there are lots of muslim voters in Great Britain. About 3 million out of a total population of about 60 million (2011).
It’s good the debate is public and a transcript is available.
mortimer says
Sadly, I agree. Back room deals will be offered from Muslim leaders financed by Arabian money.
Muslims want discussion of Islam criminalized.
haroldpom says
The best quote I’ve read on “Islamophobia” is from Andrew Cummins, who wrote, “Islamophobia. A word created by fascists, and used by cowards, to manipulate morons.”
gravenimage says
Spot on, Harold.
Infidel says
I like the term Greg Gutfeld coined – Islamophobiaphobia – an irrational fear of being called or considered islamophobic. That is a more genuine phobia than ‘islamophobia’ itself
James Lincoln says
Yes, Infidel.
You could also throw in “racist-o-phobia.”
born saturday says
by the real meaning of islamophobia which is digust for islam i would be islamophobic….. by the meaning that i have a phobia about islam it goes right back to the people that cooperate with it…. if i had a phobia about islam would i be talking against it??
born saturday says
i lived 7 years in uk, i would never come back there ever again… one thing their upper class is very characteristic is their hypocrisy…. muslims free to roam, no body else move or speak…
somehistory says
islamo-get-the-heck-off-the-earth if you don’t wish to live and let live; if you don’t wish to allow others to be free while you live in satan’s shackles; if you don’t wish to stay where you are and not go out intending to impose your evil on everyone, everywhere…or else.
People such as elmi, alias omar, have traveled from where they were born to countries that have a different set of behavior rules….countries with a set of values, a set of actual *laws* as opposed to islam’s fake laws that are, in truth, lawlessness…and then make every attempt to force their ways onto the populace; whining and lying, and committing terror when the whining and lying stops working so well.
So sick and tired of this islam and the mozlums who foment for it.
Johnny B says
It’s strange how they can still debate so called “Islamophobia” as if Islam has nothing to do with terror. Nobody truly believes this today. No, what they’re debating should carry the title “OK, Islam is pretty violent and basically wants to enslave you, but how do we keep all the non-Muslims in check, so they don’t oppose to becoming Dhimmies and targets of Islamic violence and terror in the future?”.
James Lincoln says
The word “phobia” derives from phobos, meaning fear.
Phobos is the god of fear in Greek mythology.
From what I can find, the *original* meaning says nothing about an *irrational* fear.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phobos_(mythology)
gravenimage says
+1
Infidel says
The root origin may not imply irrational, but every phobia I’ve ever read about e.g. claustrophobia has implied that the fear in question is irrational
James Lincoln says
Yes, Infidel.
The word somehow evolved to imply that the fear in question is irrational.
Giacomo Latta says
The field of psychiatry has adopted the word ”phobia” as one of its own, thus the modern definition of ”irrational fear.” Psychiatry is not the study of what is normal, except in making a comparison.
john smith says
I am proud islamophobe, but the way things are going over here, they will be locking people like me up before long.
somehistory says
John Smith,
One who has faith in the One True God and His Son, may get “locked-up” for refusing to give in to the evil offered by satan. Christians have had this happen as far back as the Apostles…Peter and Paul and John were all put in prison. Others too, and some killed outright.
Therefore, if you are locked up, you can consider the company you are in. (I am aware that you know all of this.? )
Michael Copeland says
“You’ll have plenty of time to study the Koran in prison…the Koran is a book of peace.”
Mr.. Justice Haddon-Cave
Just to show how out of touch the judiciary are.
https://gatesofvienna.net/2019/06/the-lamentable-shortcomings-of-some-english-judges-and-senior-lawyers/
somehistory says
Some “judge.” No understanding of the issues and biased, obviously.
I have never read the book of filth and won’t do so.
john smith says
Thank you for this excellent essay Michael.
john smith says
Somehistory,
I would never ever submit to islam under any circumstances whatsoever, and I know you wouldn’t either.
somehistory says
?Christians know from where the “real life”, the “reward” will come.
mortimer says
johnsmith should be careful using that word, because he will be misunderstood. You should instead tell people, ‘No, I am definitely NOT phobic about Islam … a scientific study of a political ideology is not ‘phobia’ … it’s political science. Statistically analyzed by topic, the Islamic source texts are 51% about politics, 18% about Allah, and the rest is about Mohammed. From that its clear that Islam is a mainly an international political movement and a personality cult, but less than 20% of Islam is about religion.”
Fred van de Bunt says
It would be better when those bureaucrats discuss holy sharia laws, instead of people that believe in some supernatural being: a God, named Allah.
Their believe in this God is not in question, but the fact that this believe gives some of them superior divine holy rights that are conflicting with the rights and laws that are for long time a custom among the English population.
These superior holy rights even maintain a command to kill, and subdue so called infidels. This is worrying and cannot be discussed under the pretext of irrational worries, defined as Islamophobia.
gravenimage says
It would be better when those bureaucrats discuss holy sharia laws
…………….
Agreed, Fred. I poked around a bit to see if this had ever been debated in Parliament, and found nothing.
I did find a Change.org petition aimed at the UK Parliament demanding that Muslims be allowed to live under Sharia law there.
It was started by an “Imam Mahdi”:
“MUSLIMS are law abiding in UK and let the UK parliament allow MUSLIMS to implement sharia law on themselves and this way radicalisation from MUSLIMS will come to an end.”
Of course, this is a lie–Muslims intend to impose Sharia law on *everybody*.
The petition, I noted, was only signed by 11 people:
https://www.change.org/p/the-uk-parliament-introduce-sharia-law-in-uk-and-allow-muslims-in-uk-be-exclusively-under-sharia-law
mortimer says
65% of Muslims worldwide say they want Sharia law to be imposed.
gravenimage says
Thanks for that grim statistic, Mortimer. And note that many Muslims in the west may undereport their support for Shari’ah, since they must realize that this would not be popular here.
gravenimage says
UK: Parliament to hold general debate on definition of ‘Islamophobia’
…………..
This will likely result in more of the judicial shut-down of any critictism of the horrors of Islam.
mortimer says
Reply: Exactly, GI. From time to time, people of ALL religions behave badly or criminally. As a result of HUMAN FALLIBILITY, we need the possibility of criticizing ALL RELIGIONS equally so that we may address the bad behavior or criminal behaviors of people of those religions and so correct the bad behaviors.
WITHOUT CRITICISM, NOTHING IMPROVES.
gravenimage says
+1
tim gallagher says
It seems to me that this term Islamophobia is usually applied to any criticism of Islam. I find islam loathsome and barbaric and incredibly backward, so I loathe it. I am definitely a hater of islam in the same way that I loathe Nazism and Communism. Islam is full of horrendous, barbaric garbage such as its pedophilia with child brides, its honour killings, its belief in stoning people to death, and many other things which should not exist in any modern belief system. Above all, I loathe islam’s hatred and its calls for murderous violence against any non-members of this disgusting, evil religious ideology, the hated infidels, one of whom I am very glad to be. Almost all Muslims do want to impose Islam’s barbaric garbage on all of us, so I don’t see them as “innocent” people. People who want to impose Islam on other people don’t qualify as innocent in my book. My own policy would be to keep Muslims out altogether. What amazes me is that everyone hasn’t become completely fed up with Islam by now and said, nope, we’ve had enough of Muslims and all the trouble they always bring with them, we are all Islamophobic, as any decent person should be, and we want Muslims to be shut off in their own backward, primitive countries. This protection racket for Islam, which seems to go on and on, has to end. Long live Islamophobia, which all decent human beings should embrace. Islam deserves to be hated just as Nazism and Communism deserve to be hated.
mortimer says
SEVERAL ARGUMENTS AGAINST THE ‘ISLAMOPHOBIA’ SLUR
– The ‘Islamophobia’ accusation is non-empathetic, supremacist mirroring of what Muslims actually think of kafirs. Muslims believe kafirs are dirty, stupid, blind, and that Muslims are called by Allah in the Koran to hate them and subjugate them.
– ‘Islamophobia’ is a subterfuge, which is intended to beat down critics of Islam.” –Robert Spencer
– Dictionary definition: “a dislike of Islam, especially as a political ideology.”
Response: what is wrong with criticizing a political ideology whose aim is to remove the human rights and civil liberties of women and non-Muslims?
Counter-argument: But Islam is a religion. Answer: Islam is the political ideology that unites Islamists and justifies their conquest of all non-Muslims.
– ‘Islamophobia’ is a dismissive slander used so that you don’t have to take a critic’s valid arguments seriously. Muslims claim that all criticism of Islam is Islamophobic, rather than intelligently address the points of the critique.
– The Islamophobia slander is an accusation based on seriously flawed reasoning. A concern for universal human rights cannot reasonably be called a ‘phobia’. The ‘Islamophobia’ slander-word is merely an excuse for censorship and is a ‘big lie’, implying that one should not criticize a supremacist political ideology (Islamism), because the apologists of that supremacist ideology may have hurt feelings.
– What exactly is wrong with criticizing a political ideology whose aim is to remove the human rights and civil liberties of women and non-Muslims and conquer all nations under an Islamic dictatorship?
– ‘Islamophobia’ is a propaganda term, a ruse, and a subterfuge — misrepresentation is permitted in Islam under the doctrine of taqiyya — meant to paralyze all discussion concerning the jihad terror doctrine
– in a classic twist of irony, the opening assertion of the OIC’s first report — “Islamophobia has existed since the time of inception of Islam” — contradicts its entire argument, for it begs the following question: How can something, in this case ‘unfounded fear of and hostility towards Islam’ — to use CAIR’s definition of Islamophobia — be a constant aspect of Islam’s fourteen-hundred year history, and yet still be regarded as “unfounded”? (Raymond Ibrahim, associate director of the Middle East Forum)
– Islamophobia as the Strawman Argument: Substituting a person’s actual position or argument with a distorted, exaggerated, or misrepresented version of the position of the argument. Example: John opposes jihad terror. Pete replies: ‘You are a racist.’
– an ad hominem fallacy of mud throwing from a 7th century honour-shame culture, ‘poisoning the well’ fallacy, ideological, supremacist warfare
– an ad hominem fallacy of name-calling, rather than creating an intellectual argument. Name-calling is NOT an intellectual argument
– a thought-terminating cliché conceived to bully and beat down critics of Islam, thus preventing anyone from considering Islam’s very obvious problems
– a rehash of Mohammed’s slanders in the Koran, accusing his critics of mental illness or moral depravity or subhuman status as ‘the worst of beasts’
– a facile slander that claims ‘all critics of Islam are sick’, stupid, immoral or subhuman’
– Dirty Pool, cutting off the speech of the critic of Islam before they can finish a sentence. Muslims don’t play fair if they can play Dirty Pool.
– a facile weapon of propaganda to smear all opponents by insisting that any well-researched or thoughtful criticism of Islam is a form of demonizing hate language from the mentally ill (an overgeneralization…‘they’re all like that’)…
– ‘Islamophobia’ is the overgeneralization used by Islamic supremacists to argue that all critics of Islam are overgeneralizing, and thus inaccurate, and even mentally ill.)
– the Islamophobia slur, like the Argumentum ad Hitlerum, is an admission that the user is desperate because he has run out of valid arguments and cannot defend his position with a moral, intellectual or logical argument.
– To quote verbatim from Islam’s own authorities on the supremacist and misogynistic doctrines of Islam is alleged to be phobic or prejudicial.
– If Islam’s leading authorities do not speak for Islam, neither does the OIC, but a studious attempt to explore the ethical problems of Islam’s political philosophy of world conquest allegedly derived from a Divine mandate to impose Sharia law on an unwilling world by military force.
– Criticizing a doctrine or ideology for philosophical reasons is not phobic, but rational, philosophical and intellectual. It is far from a mental illness to use reason to examine Islam’s fallacies of thought and ethical problems.
gravenimage says
Fine post.
mortimer says
The Islamophobia slur is part of an Ideological warfare by Islamists against Western civilization and their attempted monopolization of thought and discourse on Islam.
Derek says
I completely agree with the definition given in the main article.
If one goes by the literal meaning of the term Islamophobia as fear of Islam: then is it not ordained in the Qoran that all non believers should live in fear and terror; that it is the duty of good muslims to drive terror into the hearts of the kaffirs.
In which case, saying that Islamophobia is an achievement that all Muslims ought to be proud of and removing it or denying it would undermine such an achievement.
Speaking out against any cult or religion that is intimidating public at large can hardly be called Islamophobic.
Grace says
A religion that beats it’s woman, honor kills it’s children, throws gays off the top of buildings, cuts off the noses of dogs and the hands of petty thieves is hardly one that should be considered acceptable in a normal society. However, words have power. the EU has “Islamophobia” and in America it’s “Racist”. Both have been allowed, by just their utterance, to shut down legitimate and meaningful conversation. Until leaders are brave enough to face up to the constant damage being caused to free societies by these ‘made up’ charges there will be no progress.
gravenimage says
Fine analysis, Grace.
tim gallagher says
Very well said, Grace. Totally agree with what you say.
James Lincoln says
So, what happens if we tell muslims that they are Christianphobic?
Infidel says
We absolutely should. Christophobic, Judeophobic, Hinduphobic (in the Indian subcontinent), Buddhophobic (in Sri Lanka and Burma) and so on
gravenimage says
+1
tim gallagher says
Spot on, James and Infidel. How does islam, this hate filled ideology, get away with it? Islam hates anything that is not islamic, so the protection racket run for it by so many people is insane.
Derek says
The Islamists would say that they have a right to practice their religion as enshrined in the constitutions of other countries. Which means that as stated in the Qoran, they have a right to subjugate, kill etc all others. So they have a right to be “phobic” of Christians, Jews, hindus budhists. On the other hand, the others do not have a right to be Islamophobia as per their own laws and as per the leftists (whose sole agenda is to destroy all order at any cost).
So you see – they use our laws against us. One must distinguish between political Islam and Islam (though both are sick). If any Muslim m practicea Islam in his home, we need not care. However, if as a group they block streets to pray: that is an example of Political islam that must be fought.
OLD GUY says
Well if you make it illegal to speak or write about islamic ideology or actions against others then you will need to arrest the muslims who speak hate and take actions against the Jewish community and Christians.
We need to invest in jails now, because the defunded police will be arresting a whole lot of people.
gravenimage says
Funny how this never happens, OLD GUY. This is selectively enforced against anyone criticizing Islam.
OTTER says
The word ‘Islamophobia is wielded both as a shield and a sword again and again. This word must be destroyed if the world is to live. I am thinking of one and working on it. Stay tuned.