What could possibly go wrong? They’re Germans! Never mind that they left Germany to join an entity that is avowedly at war with Germany. We can’t let such technicalities stand in the way of our moral superiority, now, can we?
“Germany is bringing back eight IS women and children from Syria,” translated from “Deutschland holt acht IS-Frauen samt Kindern aus Syrien zurück,” Exxpress, October 6, 2021 (thanks to Medforth):
According to media reports, Germany has brought eight German women and children from Syria. In the past, they had joined the terrorist militia “Islamic State” (IS). Late on Wednesday evening, a plane with the women and their 23 children on board was expected at Frankfurt Airport.
According to “Bild,” they were brought from a Kurdish camp in northern Syria by a team from the German Foreign Office and the German Federal Criminal Police Office, with the support of the US Air Force.
The Foreign Office in Berlin initially did not want to confirm the reports on Wednesday evening. According to information from Deutsche Presse Agentur, a return campaign for women and children from Syria was planned for Wednesday. Some of the adults are likely to be brought before a judge upon arrival in Germany. According to “Spiegel,” six of the eight women have arrest warrants from the judicial authorities.
As the news magazine reported, the women, who are between the ages of 30 and 38, had spent years with their children in the al-Hol anti-terror prison camp in northern Syria, which was guarded by Kurdish fighters. As part of a humanitarian operation, they are now on their way back to their home country in a charter jet.
The duplication
According to “Spiegel,” in addition to the women from Germany, there were also three suspected IS supporters from Denmark with their 14 children on board the machine. It is the largest repatriation of Germans from Syria so far, reported “Bild.” Because of the support from the US military, the action was treated particularly sensitively.
Austria brought back two children of the allegedly deceased Viennese IS supporter Sabina S. In that case, the grandparents had been given custody. The Austrian Foreign Ministry currently assumes that there are around a dozen people with Austrian citizenship in northeast Syria, around half of whom are children.
Wellington says
Western civilizational suicide continues. I attribute this first and foremost (there are other culprits) to the decade of the 1960’s which ushered in a massively ignorant self-loathing, replete with stupid altruistic narcissism, of Western Civilization.
The West from its beginnings in antiquity exhibited a capacity for self-criticism unlike any other major civilization (kinda’ goes along with the West developing concepts of liberty far beyond those of any other major civilization—classic example of the two-edged sword), but the 1960’s took it to suicidal levels and we are still living with this.
Want to know why we have foolish Western leaders like Biden, Trudeau, Pope Francis, Macron, Johnson, et al.? Well, look to the 1960’s for this woeful genesis.
Fitna says
Well said Wellington, it’s totally disgusting the way that western leaders have turned their nations into the world’s doormat.
I think oxytocins also play a factor, esp. with braindead, bleeding heart, virtue-signalling Lefties. They get good feelings from ‘helping others.’ It doesn’t matter to them if they belong to terrorist organizations that torture, rape and slaughter innocents, they just want to “do good” in the world and appear noble to others.
Nevermind the consequences or the poor women and children who will mostly have to suffer the consequences of their ‘benevolent’ decisions.
There is no ‘undo button’ for rape, assault and murder. Once ordinary westerners are harmed by these invaders, they’re usually scarred for life if they survive.
But who cares when Lefties get happy neurotransmitters flowing through their veins? Merkel’s (and scum like her) always excited and beaming when she hears of a fresh boatload of terrorists and rapists from Islamic nations made it to her shores. This is how great civilizations die.
Fitna says
Let’s also not forget as we live in a ‘Democracy’ which means mob rule-the mob keeps voting for the same traitors that created this problem in the first place.
There are clear alternatives like the AfD in Germany, Marine Le Pen in France, Geert Wilders in Holland, etc., but they keep giving their votes to the same azzholes that keep bringing in more Muslims and Islam.
The voting bovines are as much as problem as the leaders (and media) who are destroy western civilization.
I don’t see how we can escape this self-created trap, apart from just leaving western nations to live in peace on some island hideaway and let the next global war play itself out, because that’s where we’re headed if no good leaders rise up to fix this mess.
Fitna says
Indeed Crusaders….the media/politicians have made it appear shameful and racist to oppose the mass invasion of Islamic fascists.
Even now the AfD party are treated by other other center-Left parties as if they were Nazis and have them under surveillance, for simply wanting to keep their citizens safe and and their nation free.
It will be poetic justice the day Muslims finally attack their benefactors, but when it gets to that point, it means Germany will have become an Islamic state-the same fate in store for all western nations that invited this plague into their midst.
gravenimage says
Actually, Fitna, proper democracy is not just mob rule, but also includes protectiion for minorities and the individual, no matter the political wind.
mortimer says
Wellington certainly has the short list of useful idiots of jihadism, but there are also many others, both potentates and minions who allow themselves to be duped by crafty, two-faced, Islamist apologists. The main thing about this army of useful idiots is many of them likely KNOW that what they are doing is not ‘altruism’, but political and demographic MANIPULATION … these Leftists and Globalists are consciously trying to replace freedom-loving Europeans with freedom-ignoring Asians and Africans most of whom come from authoritarian, repressive regimes.
The Globalist-Fascists are very consciously and cunningly developing a demographic voter base that will unwittingly support repressive Leftist agendas that include high taxes, brainwashing and ever-expanding government control of every aspect of life and suppression of human rights and civil liberties. The Brided-man’s administration is consciously manipulating the American demographics, because they know certain races vote predominantly for one party and the answer is to bring in as many such voters into the country in as short a time and with as little regard to the law as possible.
PMK says
A big problem in the 60’s is the so-called ‘greatest generation’ began to assume more and more power. They and their parents worshipped FDR. In the 1960s Europe and Asia were still rebuilding from WWII and the US economy was probably at its zenith, relative to the rest of the world. Many of that generation probably believed they could remake the world at no cost to America or its freedom. For them, the good times would never end. Everyone wants to blame baby boomers who were schooled in the 60’s but the oldest boomer didn’t even graduate high school until 1964. Most boomers came of age in the 70s, but who taught them? The so-called ‘greatest generation’.
mortimer says
Reply to PMK: I don’t know what a discussion of ‘Boomers’ has to do with Islam or ISIS. The rise of ISIS and other Islamic terrorists is due to the naïve ignorance of most Western people of all ages of the viciousness inherent in Islamic teachings. The foremost example of this naivety was Jimmy Carter who presided over the rise of the Third Great Jihad started by the ayatollahs in Iran. Carter wasn’t a boomer.
gravenimage says
Mortimer, PMK is saying that this suicidal foolishness in the West predates the Boomers–and I agree. (By the way, I am a “Boomer” myself–albeit from the tail end of that demographic).
Kepha says
I’m not sure how German or Austrian law works on such matters, however, I know American rules on this sort of thing rather well.
Had these women and children been born US citizens, and this was an American rather than a German matter, the US government would have no other choice than to bring them back to the US if they so desired. Of course, if they might prove unable to repay the repatriation loan, they would have passports valid only for return to the USA, and would not be eligible for a passport and travel privileges until able to repay. If the adult women were guilty of some crime while aiding and abetting ISIS, they would also have the right to an American trial by jury, being confronted with evidence against them, and, if found guilty, an American jail cell.
This is one of the things you get for being a country where law is supreme. Our Bill of RIghts was originally designed to protect the citizen against the state. My guess is that the postwar Grundgesetz fur die Bundesrepublik Deutschlands may include similar protections for German citizens.
I, for one, won’t complain, if this is indeed the case. I believe that constitutional protections (and enforcement) coupled with separated powers are a far better deal for the citizen vis-a-vis possible state abuse than the plebiscitory system.
gravenimage says
Kepha, Senator Ted Cruz has suggested stripping US citizenship from Islamic State Jihadists. I think this is quite reasonable. Running off to join such an obvious hideous Jihad polity does *not* make anyone a good American citizen.
Infidel says
That makes sense for more reasons than one. Normally, if an American non-muslim citizen embraced islam and then wanted to migrate to, say, Saudi Arabia, he’d have to undergo their immigration process until he was approved. But in the case of the various Islamic states – be it the Levant, ‘Khorasan’ or anywhere else, there is no formal citizenship process there, but had there been, people who went to those places to join the Islamic States would have gotten their citizenships from agreeing to either fight or die, or marry and breed for the islamic state. It’s upto the US to decide w/ which countries it has dual citizenship arrangements, and any sane government would preclude any dual citizenship agreement w/ any muslim country
Not just that, stripping them of their citizenship also relieves the US government of the burden of trying to help them while they are w/ the islamic state. Also, if they ‘repent’, they still should not be salvaged, since there’s obviously a taquiya element, making them a security risk
Kepha says
Here, I will part company with the honorable gentleman from the Great State of Texas–even if I think he needs to be term-limited right into the Oval Office or onto the US Supreme Court.
Now that we have the [dis-]honorable Mr. Merrick Garland wanting to label as domestic terrorists people who speak up against CRT or the LGBTQWXYZ agenda in their local school board meetings, mechanisms to strip Americans of citizenship strike me as a very dangerous power to give to a government that is clearly losing its way.
I am old enough to remember Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn being stripped of Soviet citizenship and forced, ultimately, to live as a stateless refugee in the USA (and traveling on papers we issue to non-citizen refugees domiciled in our country).
The Patriot Act was a good example of a wrong law passed for the right reasons. I don’t shed a tear for Anwar al-Awlaki when I say this, for I see his being droned to death as analogous to a policeman having a clear, unimpeded shot at a school shooter. But I am very suspicious of anything that weakens those old Common Law rights that the USA enshrined in several portions in the Bill of Rights.
That being said, I have nothing against an American citizen who is guilty of serious crimes facing a variety of penalties, up to and including the death penalty. Being an American citizen does not guarantee that someone is a good person.
gravenimage says
Kepha–with all respect–Solzhenitsyn didn’t move to an enemy state that tried to destroy his native country–but this is the case with Americans and other westerners who ran off to join the savage Islamic State. This polity was so notorious from the very beginning that virtually no one can have gone off to join that state innocently, unless they were a small child at the time.
bill says
The children did not join ISIS however, at least not of their own volition. I have though a lot about this situation and have concluded that those camps are jihad universities. Those kids are being indoctrinated daily into ISIS ideas by the other inmates. It is like the Hitler youth who were the most fanatical fighters Leaving those kids to be indoctrinated in the most extreme jihad will com back to bite us. It is better that they with their mothers. live supervised in a Western country
Infidel says
No, no, no! Definitely not their mothers. Their mothers are the ones who got into that ?hole in the first place. If we want the capability of de-islamizing them, the first thing that has to be done is separate them from their moms and make them forget. That can only be done w/ very young children
There’s also the question of the ‘supervisor’: if it’s our new woke class swearing allegiance to the likes of Ilhan and Rashida, then they remain future vectors of crime. They’ll be indoctrinated w/ woke communism, and then on top of that, they’ll also have their jihadist heritage to pile on
Giacomo Latta says
Just ask the kids what they think of Jews. If they have successfully passed Islam 101 you will know soon enough.
gravenimage says
Bill, it is those mothers who are teaching these children these horrors of Islam.
mortimer says
Yes, of course. What a grand idea! Germany doesn’t yet have enough of its WORST ENEMIES to have the numbers to create a PERMANENT REBELLION and SELF-SUSTAINING INSURGENCY. In Islam, they never have enough women whose only value is to create more young jihadists.
It’s illegal in Germany to be a Nazi, but it’s just fine to be a JIHADIC INSURGENT. Gemany can’t seem to get enough of them!
Infidel says
Since muslims worldwide seem so enamored w/ der Führer, shouldn’t this ban on Nazism in Germany be lifted? After all, we know that if a muslim did a sieg heil salute, he wouldn’t be held accountable b’cos… islamophobia
James Lincoln says
Infidel,
It begs the question:
If Germany can ban Nazi-ism, why can it not also ban islam – another fascist totalitarian political ideology?
Is it only because islam also has a religious component?
Infidel says
Absolutely! Which is why a lot of people like Rebecca Bynum, one of our former founders here, and many posters here like Terry Gain argue for islam to be re-recognized as a religion when it comes to First Amendment purposes
I know the argument of a lot of people about islam being an evil religion. However, for the population at large, the only section w/ which that opinion holds are atheists, who also tend to have the same views about other religions such as Christianity and Hinduism. So even if Islam may technically be a ‘religion’, I agree w/ those who argue for its de-recognition in this country under the constitution, and treat it like Scientology, Branch Davidian or any other cult
Kepha says
Hmmmm. Sounds as if Germany could prosecute Hitler-nostalgia among its Muslim migrants.
gravenimage says
Actually, Infidel, Rebecca Bynum and poster Terry Gain are pushing to have Islam recognized as a non-religion.
These are both people I respect, but Islam is a religion by all definitions–it is just an evil religion. These is actually nothing in the definition of religion that says it has to be benignant. Moreover, there have been evil religions before–most notably the worship of Baal and the religion of the Aztecs, both of which involved human sacrifice.
Moreover, the idea that Islam should (somehow) be designated a non-religion is based on the idea that the only reason that Islam is not criticized is because it is a religion–but I’m afraid this makes no sense, because many people are happy to criticize Christianity and Judaism, so this is not the main problem in any case.
I think we need to keep exposing the savagery of Islam, which so many are in denial of–not because Islam is a religon but because criticizing it is currently deemed “politicallhy incorrect” because it is non-western.
Infidel says
Graven, I mistyped. I meant to type ‘de-recognized’ instead of ‘re-recognized’ when I referred to the positions of Rebecca and Terry. My apologies to both
I follow what you, Wellington and others have said, but true as it is, there is also the reality that most religious people (of any religion, except islam) regard religions as good, and that the overwhelming majority of people who think that religions can be, or are evil, happen to be atheists who also happen to think that of not just islam, but real mainstream religions as well.
Which is why as long as islam is considered a religion, it will invariably be equated to religions like Christianity, Buddhism and so on. It’s hard to oppose such odious comparisons when the basis on which they are being made – a comparison of religions – includes islam in the same grouping as the others
Like I’ve said on other occasions, islam is a cross b/w a geopolitical ideology, such as Communism or Nazism, and a cult such as Branch Davidian. A geopolitical cult is a far more accurate description of it. And no, a cult is not a small religion: Ali Sina has had a pretty elaborate description of the attributes of a cult, and how islam satisfies not merely one or two, but all attributes of a cult
http://islam-watch.org/AliSina/religion_or_cult.htm
gravenimage says
OK, Infidel.
As for Islam being a religion, I don’t believe that us changing the meaning of our words for Islam is actually a good thing–there is enough ignoring of reality as it is. I don’t think that more will actually help matters.
And a cult is just a small religion–the negative use of the term cult only dates back to about the 1960s, and still would not include Islam because of its large size.
I believe that exposing the savagery of Islam is more important that attempting to change logic for it.
Infidel says
Graven
Understood, but then, would Jainism (9 million) or Shintoism (4 million) or Zoroastrianism (<3 million) be considered cults? What is the threshold number for a religion to be considered a cult?
gravenimage says
Infidel, not certain what the cut off point is–to my knowledge all the faiths you mention are considered religions. But certainly at 1.8 billion Islam would be. Islam is–God help us all–the second largest religion in the world.
Wikipedia somewhat unhelpfully has this to say:
“Groups labelled as ‘cults’ range in size from local groups with a few followers to international organizations with millions of adherents.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult
“Cult” is also often applied to a new faith, as well–there are books from the 19th century that refer to early Christianity as a cult (this is not intended pejorative; just descriptive).
At 1200 to 1400 years old, Islam would not qualify as a cult on this basis now either.
James Lincoln says
gravenimage,
Using the strict definition of a religion, islam would – unfortunately – likely qualify.
That being said, muslims in the United States are taking advantage of – and leveraging – the many protections that the “religion” designation offers.
Not to mention the many tax / financial advantages of a IRC charitable 501(c)(3) designation which means that the United States government indirectly helps to bankroll mosques, etc., in the United States.
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1828.pdf
Suffice it to say that whatever we are doing in the United States, it is not working…
gravenimage says
With USAF support, German Foreign Office brings eight ISIS jihadi Muslimas and their 23 children back to Germany
………………….
More suicidal insanity, as that tyke’s love of the vicious Islamic State makes clear.
Infidel says
Well, from the elections last month, close to 90% of Germans have said, “Ich möchte Muslim werden” So looks like those muslims have come to the right place
gravenimage says
Have 90% of Germans really said this–or do you mean that they voted as if they did?
Infidel says
Only 10% voted for AfD, which is the only party there committed to stopping islamization. Even the ‘right’ wing parties – the CDP and CSU – have no credible record of opposing islam. Remember, Merkel is considered to be on the ‘right’ there, never mind how much of a globalist she is
gravenimage says
I see what you are saying, Infidel. Sadly, many don’t believe that AfD can win at this point–which at this point it likely cannot. A bigger problem is that many Germans have swallowed the idea that AfD is “racist” and that Islam is not an actual threat. This denial is a huge problem.
Infidel says
Same problem in UK w/ Anne-Marie Watters’ For Britain, and probably in France for either Le Pen or Zemmour. I do see hope in Italy w/ Salvini, and Austria w/ Bach. Maybe these 3 could leave the EU and form an economic alliance b/w Italy-Austria-Hungary-Poland-Czech-Slovenia, which would be more like the USMCA rather than any iterations of the EU
gravenimage says
Yes–glad to see that Salvini is back in the government in Italy now. Heartening.
Infidel says
I missed that news. When did that happen – Salvini returning to power?
gravenimage says
Infidel, he is sadly not Prime Minister again, but he does has a formal role in Italian government again:
https://www.euronews.com/2021/02/06/italy-s-draghi-wins-support-of-two-parties-for-new-government-as-salvini-comes-on-board
Infidel says
Okay, Graven, that’s good news. Just when I wrote the above, I was disappointed to learn about the resignation of Sebastian Kurz in Vienna
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2021/10/09/austrias-chancellor-kurz-resigns-over-corruption-probe/
I hope that his successor continues the crackdown on islamic activity in Austria, such as the ‘map of islam’ project, and that the Greens, which back his government, don’t push it to soften on the islamic front
tgusa says
Within the west this is a battle between so called islamophobes and islamophiles. In the end, no matter what they do, even in victory, islamophiles lose. No thanks, not joining the ranks of the islamophiles, ever.
My primary question in this is, what in the hell is the USAF doing? Have their commanders lost their minds?
gravenimage says
I’m sure the USAF thinks they are aiding poor Muslim widows and orphans to come home–naive idiocy.
tgusa says
The USAF is a new service when compared to the other services. Perhaps they just aren’t yet up to speed on the good the bad and the ugly of US global affairs. That may require an intervention, some counseling and such.
gravenimage says
tgusa–with all respect–I think this has more to do with the creeping “wokeness” that is affecting all of the armed services, rather than the fact that the USAF has only been around since 1947.
tgusa says
Well this type of stuff really never happened in the past. The Army seems to have become afflicted with the same disease. I’m praying that the Navy keeps its head within all this craziness and lives up to their fine reputation and standards of the past.
gravenimage says
The US Navy now has Muslim “chaplains”, so they have at least been somewhat effected by this madness.
Infidel says
I think the USAF is looking at who’s in power, and doing what they think will please their new woke overlords in DC. I wouldn’t blame them one bit, given what’s happening to the likes of Lt Col Stuart Schiller
Kepha says
I am fully sympathetic with Germany’s desire to live down the legacy of Hitler. A lot of Germans I have known engaged in much soul-searching over the Nazi past, and clearly don’t wish to repeat that crime on anyone else. If Germany’s Basic Law provides for extensive protections of the citizen against a potentially abusive state, I can also understand and approve–especially given the poisonous legacies of both the Thrd Reich and the DDR. But surely, the Grundgesetz has leeway for German prosecutors and police to proceed against those advocating social violence, and even expressing fondness for the memory of May-His-Name-Rot?
gravenimage says
Sadly, importing hordes of violent, Hitler-loving, antisemtic Muslims is not in any way living down the legacy of Hitler–rather the opposite, in fact, no matter its original intent.
Kepha says
Dear Gravenimage, you’re not preaching to the choir about enforcing extant immigration law to stem “camp of the saints” scenarios, but to the very board of elders itself!
But, it is my understanding that these people the USAF flew to Germany and German request hel German citizenship. WHile I’m not sure, I suspect that the Grundgesetz or something in German law makes it hard for someone to lose citizenship–as is the case with the USA and a number of other democratic and/or constitutional polities. For all I know, the Germans have tied their own hands with laws properly designed to shield their citizens from dangerous actions by the state.
I’ve thrown a couple other answers your way.
Again, I’d appreciate German input on this question. I’m also curious if any Muslim immigrants in Germany have ever fallen afoul of the de-Nazification laws.
gravenimage says
Thanks, Kepha.
As for Germany in particular, there is this:
“In June 2019, Germany adopted a law that allows to revoke the German citizenship of dual citizens who have joined or supported a terror militia such as the Islamic State and are at least 18 years old.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_nationality_law
It is not clear to me if this has been applied to any Jihadists who have decamped to the Islamic State yet or not. Do any Germans here know?
Kepha says
@Gravenimage @8:45
Your point is well taken, but, in the minds of the Soviet authorities, Solzhenitsyn struck at the heart of their system with his writings. In the totalitarian system, the citizen gets his status from the state; in the classical liberal, constitutional, or similar system, the state is formed by the consent of the citizens. Hence, my extreme wariness of measures that would allow a totalitarianizing state the option of easily stripping citizenship from someone.
As for the USA taking back its native Jihadis (and, per the article, Germany, which may possibly also make the loss of citizenship hard), I’ve never opposed the prosecution to the full extent of the law of citizens who should be prosecuted. If some of our returning Jihadis prove to have been guilty of murders, I would not be opposed to imposing the death penalty.
If there are any Germans here, please educate us about how German citizenship laws apply in cases such as the ones mentioned in the article.
gravenimage says
Of course, the Soviet Communists never recognized citizenship as the civilized west does, where one can be openly critical of policy. There was never any such freedom there.