I debated Danios/Javad T. Hasmhi on Reason and Theology Saturday. You can see the debate here. Just now, I discussed the debate with Michael Lofton and Luis Dizon, again on Reason and Theology.
Comments
End PCsays
Some very good questions asked and very well answered. I especially liked the one about the intelligence insulting Islamic doctrine of Abrogation. Good job.
Doomersays
Danios in the debate quoted Matthew 5:17-19 ( to say Christians are still obligated to Obey Mosaic Law):
” “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven””
Danios certainly knows that the SAME author(Matthew) later on has the Same Jesus creating the Jesus Covenant( to replace Mosaic Law) in
1. Matthew 26:27-28 (in the Last Supper)
“Then He took the cup, gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.”
2. In Mark 14:24: “This is my blood of the covenant,
which is poured out for many.”
And:
3.That covenant according to the first generation of Christians was the one foretold in Jeremiah 3131
“”Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make
a new covenant
with the house of Israel and the house of Judah,
not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt”(Mosaic law)
And the phrase “NEW covenant” appears in
4.Luke 22:20 (Last Supper,by Jesus)
5. 1 Corinthians 11:25 where Paul says about the Last Supper:
“Do this in remembrance of me.” In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the
new covenant in my blood.
Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.”
6. 2 Corinthians 3:6:” He has made us competent as ministers
of a new covenant
—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.”
7. Hebrews 8:8 ( it quotes Jeremiah 31:31)
8. Hebrews 9:15: “And because of this,
of a new covenant he (Jesus ) is mediator,
that, death having come, for redemption of the transgressions under
the first covenant,(Mosaic Law)
those called may receive the promise of the age-during inheritance.”
9. Hebrews 12:24
“And to a mediator of a new covenant
— Jesus,
and to blood of sprinkling, speaking better things than that of Abel! “
Doomersays
There is a prophecy about a holy man to come in ISAIAH 42,which Muslims say is Mohamed and Christians and Jews (Jews also )say is the MESSIAH,since it says:
Isaiah 42:1:
“Here is MY SERVANT, whom I uphold,
my chosen one in whom I delight;
I will put my Spirit on him,
and he will bring JUSTICE to the NATIONS.”( the world)
and verse 4:” he will not falter or be discouraged
till he ESTABLISHES JUSTICE on EARTH.”
verse 6: “and will make YOU ( the Servant of the prophecy)
to be a COVENANT ( the Covenant of the Messiah)
for the people and a light for the Gentiles.”
Simon Plattsays
In re lying about Islamic terrorist attacks: the lying racist mohammedan also said that there were none such in Europe for a decade after 9/11. Englishmen like me, and other Europeans, know that to be an egregious falsehood.
gravenimagesays
Yes–an absolute lie. Among other things, this ignores the train attack in Spain in 2004 and the attack on the London Tube and buses the following year. This is just off the top of my head–I’m sure there are others.
End PCsays
See the thereligionofpeace.com which keeps track of Islamic attacks.
gravenimagesays
Thank you, End PC. I am familiar with that site’s important work. I just listed two very high-profile Jihad terror attacks in Europe in the first decade after 9/11 off the top of my head–I in no way meant to imply that there were not many more.
End PCsays
It was stunning to hear Hashmi absurdly fantasize that all Islam approved violence is defensive. He did so by quoting verses that have been abrogated, mostly by the “Verse of the sword” 9:5 or 9:29. Hashmi gave no answer to the obvious point by Spencer that the Muslim conquests (slaughtering millions) of North Africa, the Mideast, Persia and parts of India were certainly not done by the Muslim invaders being defensive. These are con men who try to defend Islam.
Sultanasays
Javad Hashmi is a charlatan.
Leaving aside the jihad, there is one other way Islam is also inferior to the other Abrahamic religions. Neither Judaism or Christianity (Christianity actually does’t allow divorce but that is another story) but Islam allows men to say 3 Talaqs without a judge. You cannot divorce in Judaism without a court. A man can’t just divorce his wife.
Islam is the sole religion which gives women such an inferior status that men can say 3 divorces without a judge. In secular Muslim countries secular law protects women, but there is nothing in Islam that says men can only divorce in a court.
When I realised how inferior Islam was, I left.
gravenimagesays
Thank you, Sultana. Glad you left Islam–you are a brave and principled person.
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End PC says
Some very good questions asked and very well answered. I especially liked the one about the intelligence insulting Islamic doctrine of Abrogation. Good job.
Doomer says
Danios in the debate quoted Matthew 5:17-19 ( to say Christians are still obligated to Obey Mosaic Law):
” “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven””
Danios certainly knows that the SAME author(Matthew) later on has the Same Jesus creating the Jesus Covenant( to replace Mosaic Law) in
1. Matthew 26:27-28 (in the Last Supper)
“Then He took the cup, gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.”
2. In Mark 14:24: “This is my blood of the covenant,
which is poured out for many.”
And:
3.That covenant according to the first generation of Christians was the one foretold in Jeremiah 3131
“”Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make
a new covenant
with the house of Israel and the house of Judah,
not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt”(Mosaic law)
And the phrase “NEW covenant” appears in
4.Luke 22:20 (Last Supper,by Jesus)
5. 1 Corinthians 11:25 where Paul says about the Last Supper:
“Do this in remembrance of me.” In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the
new covenant in my blood.
Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.”
6. 2 Corinthians 3:6:” He has made us competent as ministers
of a new covenant
—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.”
7. Hebrews 8:8 ( it quotes Jeremiah 31:31)
8. Hebrews 9:15: “And because of this,
of a new covenant he (Jesus ) is mediator,
that, death having come, for redemption of the transgressions under
the first covenant,(Mosaic Law)
those called may receive the promise of the age-during inheritance.”
9. Hebrews 12:24
“And to a mediator of a new covenant
— Jesus,
and to blood of sprinkling, speaking better things than that of Abel! “
Doomer says
There is a prophecy about a holy man to come in ISAIAH 42,which Muslims say is Mohamed and Christians and Jews (Jews also )say is the MESSIAH,since it says:
Isaiah 42:1:
“Here is MY SERVANT, whom I uphold,
my chosen one in whom I delight;
I will put my Spirit on him,
and he will bring JUSTICE to the NATIONS.”( the world)
and verse 4:” he will not falter or be discouraged
till he ESTABLISHES JUSTICE on EARTH.”
verse 6: “and will make YOU ( the Servant of the prophecy)
to be a COVENANT ( the Covenant of the Messiah)
for the people and a light for the Gentiles.”
Simon Platt says
In re lying about Islamic terrorist attacks: the lying racist mohammedan also said that there were none such in Europe for a decade after 9/11. Englishmen like me, and other Europeans, know that to be an egregious falsehood.
gravenimage says
Yes–an absolute lie. Among other things, this ignores the train attack in Spain in 2004 and the attack on the London Tube and buses the following year. This is just off the top of my head–I’m sure there are others.
End PC says
See the thereligionofpeace.com which keeps track of Islamic attacks.
gravenimage says
Thank you, End PC. I am familiar with that site’s important work. I just listed two very high-profile Jihad terror attacks in Europe in the first decade after 9/11 off the top of my head–I in no way meant to imply that there were not many more.
End PC says
It was stunning to hear Hashmi absurdly fantasize that all Islam approved violence is defensive. He did so by quoting verses that have been abrogated, mostly by the “Verse of the sword” 9:5 or 9:29. Hashmi gave no answer to the obvious point by Spencer that the Muslim conquests (slaughtering millions) of North Africa, the Mideast, Persia and parts of India were certainly not done by the Muslim invaders being defensive. These are con men who try to defend Islam.
Sultana says
Javad Hashmi is a charlatan.
Leaving aside the jihad, there is one other way Islam is also inferior to the other Abrahamic religions. Neither Judaism or Christianity (Christianity actually does’t allow divorce but that is another story) but Islam allows men to say 3 Talaqs without a judge. You cannot divorce in Judaism without a court. A man can’t just divorce his wife.
Islam is the sole religion which gives women such an inferior status that men can say 3 divorces without a judge. In secular Muslim countries secular law protects women, but there is nothing in Islam that says men can only divorce in a court.
When I realised how inferior Islam was, I left.
gravenimage says
Thank you, Sultana. Glad you left Islam–you are a brave and principled person.