Introduction: This is my written testimony of how I went from being a Muslim to Christian.
Disclaimers:
- If there are any Muslims reading this, I suggest that you take great caution because I have used a lot of strong terminology that will likely offend you, and you might end up reading something that you wish you never read.
- As a Christian and believer in democracy and human rights, I do not endorse any hatred and violence against Muslims because of what they believe. I am anti-Islam, but I am not anti-Muslim. Muslims are made in the image of God and are in need of being freed from Islam and redeemed by the Holy Spirit of God. As someone who was once a Muslim, I know how hard and difficult Muslims can be when their faith is being challenged, but I know that Muslims aren’t beyond saving. No, not every Muslim will be saved, I will admit, but I believe in redemption because I myself was redeemed. I wish to see other Muslims redeemed. This however, isn’t to say that you shouldn’t defend yourself if a Muslim tries to kill you or harm you in anyway, you have the right to defend yourself and I encourage you to defend yourself. I oppose Jihad terror, but opposing Jihad terror doesn’t mean we are racist, bigoted or “Islamophobic” as Leftists and Muslims have labelled us. Critics of Jihad Watch have falsely accused Jihad Watch, as well as Robert Spencer and his colleagues, of being anti-Muslim bigots, but this is a lie and shameless, deplorable demonstration of character assassination.
- As for any sincere person who’s not trying to spread ideological hatred and division and drag me into situations where people are having heated arguments about religion, but desires to send my testimony to people who are interested in hearing people’s religious testimonies, go ahead, but make sure that they don’t accidently get radicalised and are ready to read a testimony that is full of really strong and offensive language. I really hope no-one mistakens me for an extremist who has been radicalised into becoming an anti-Muslim bigot, and if anyone wants to bring up radicalisation before I start telling my story, I will be touching on that issue at some point in my story. As much as I dislike certain aspects of Islam, I do not want to radicalise anyone into having anti-Islamic views. Although there’s absolutely nothing wrong with having a negative view on Islam, I do not want anyone to be forced into having my view of Islam. And I would also like to stress that there’s a time and place for having discussions and debates about religion because religion can be very personal to people because they are deeply held beliefs. I am not saying that you shouldn’t criticise and scrutinise Islam, I am just saying that there is a time and place for it and that you need to consider boundaries. If you want to discuss Islam with a Muslim, do it with someone who is comfortable and ready to do it. If you find a person who gets offended and upset at you for scrutinising and criticising his/her beliefs, that likely means you should find someone else. I don’t know what other advice to give, but if you adopt the anti-Islamic views that I have, please be very, very careful how, when and where you voice these views.
I don’t know what other advice and warnings to give out, but I think I have identified all the threats there are from reading this story.
Here’s how it started:
Back in May 2017 I was in a gmail hangout group chat with a few acquaintances of mine, we were making a lot of jokes. Some of those jokes included sharing memes about terrorist attacks that are done in the name of Islam by the likes of ISIS, I had already been participating in that months for a few months, but I got tired of the jokes about ISIS so I asked them to stop it by saying I don’t like jokes about a terrorist organisation that I believed to be a disgrace to Islam. I told them that Islam is a Religion of peace that’s only been given a bad name by terrorists.
That request led to an unexpected response from one of them, who was from Scotland. I will not mention him by name, so I will refer to him as the Scottish guy. The Scottish guy established and made it very clear that he disagreed by views on ISIS and Islam. Why? Because he opposed Islam as an ideology, and he said that ISIS is not the only form of violence and oppression that’s done and motivated by Islam. He mentioned Shari’ah law and Muslim immigrants who rape Europeans in Europe as another form of Islamic violence and oppression and argued these acts of violence and oppression as being ideologically motivated. The Scottish guy showed me Quran verses about women, namely Quran 4:34 and Quran 4:11. His response completely caught me off guard and stimulated a response from me, so I got desperate by saying that these acts of violence are a twisted misinterpretation of Islam. I failed to address his use of those Quran verses and spent a lot of time beating around the bush and performing mental gymnastics for Islam by explaining these verses away by sugercoating these Quran verses to make them sound nicer. This debate was very short and did not go well for me.
Although I got the last word and technically won, it was a very hollow victory because he couldn’t be bothered making an immediate response, and said that he’ll respond when he has the motivation. I never got a response from him because he procrastinated. My defense of the Quran didn’t give me any true victory in the debate, so after that debate had finished, I felt the need to learn more about my own faith so that I would understand it a lot better and learn how to deal with such objections to Islam. I decided to start learning about my faith by investigating its sacred texts, origins, history and what exactly made it the most controversial Religion in the world, and why there are so many radical Muslims and Islamic extremists worldwide.
I started this with the primary purpose of refuting the radicals and extremists, and this didn’t just include terrorist groups like ISIS and Al-Qaeda, it also included the Muslim immigrants that rape Europeans in European countries, radical Islamist preachers like Anjem Choudary, Omar Bakri Muhammad and Abu Haleema, who promote all kinds of hate in the name of Islam. I opposed all of that when I starting doing this journey in my last few months of being a Muslim because I had the presupposition that ISIS and all these Islamist and Jihadist groups had absolutely nothing to do with Islam. I also wanted to understand the Shari’ah because I subconsciously knew that I knew and understood very little of it.
At the start of this journey, I came across a documentary called “The Jihadis Next Door” by filmmaker Jamie Roberts. The documentary itself showed us the motives and goals of Islamic extremists in the UK. The likes of Abu Haleema, Mohammed Shamsuddin, Abu Rumaysah were featured, and they made it clear that they wanted to implement Shari’ah in the UK. They hated secularism and democracy. They hated the system that the UK operated by, and felt like the UK was waging some kind of war against Muslims by indoctrinating British Muslims with western values by wanting British Muslims to abide by a secular democratic system, which is man made law, and the extremists had the view that the system itself was compromising the Religion of Islam for millions of British Muslims. Islam isn’t just a faith, but a complete way of life that has it’s own legal system called the Shari’ah. The Shari’ah is the divine law for Muslims, and Islamic extremists want to implement the Shari’ah in the UK so that Muslims can live a more pure Islamic way of life, without any western innovations. From their perspective, the concepts of secularism and democracy should not be accepted by Muslims because legislation is for no one but Allah alone. When I first saw this, I was so shocked by the sheer hostility and hatred they showed towards non-Muslims. They even showed hostility to Pakistani Muslims outside a Mosque on Pakistan independence day on the charge of “Nationalism.”
At the same time, I also heard people saying that the reason why ISIS and Al Qaeda are doing what they’re doing is because of foreign policy. In other words, ISIS and Al Qaeda had political grievances with the west because the US had a history of invading and occupying Muslim lands, which provoked Al Qaeda, and ISIS later on, into attacking the west out of revenge. I often heard this from Muslims, and they weren’t wrong. However, I suspected that they were giving an incomplete picture and oversimplifying the truth. There had to be more to it than just foreign policy. But ISIS and Al Qaeda’s political grievances cannot be ignored. This did explain why Islamists like Anjem Choudary complained about Muslims being oppressed by the UK government in his extremist activities, but even this early in my journey, I could already tell that Choudary is exaggerating and just playing the victim card.
PMK says
“Judge Islam by the Quran (the Word of Allah, the Islamic God) and the Sunnah (sayings, deeds and actions of Muhammad, Founder and Prophet of Islam and his companions i.e. the Rightly Guided Calipihs, as recorded in Hadith and Sira material).”
That’s what many of us are doing. A man who lived centuries before Mohammed said it best: by their fruits you will know them.
“…Islam is a Religion of peace that’s only been given a bad name by terrorists.”
Didn’t Mohammed himself say that he was made victorious by terror? That terror goes back to the founding of Islam.
I await the rest of Ahmed’s story, but the idea that anyone who fears Islam and what it represents should be referred to as an “anti-Muslim bigot” doesn’t inspire confidence.
Ahmed Anwar says
You are misrepresenting me. I NEVER said fearing Islam makes you an anti-Muslim bigot. I was trying to make a distinction between Muslims as people and Islam as an ideology. Read more carefully next time.
Infidel says
Mr Anwar
It’s a distinction w/o a difference. There would be no threat of islam if there were just 10 million followers worldwide, like w/ Jains. Nobody thinks or talks about Jainism – other than Jains themselves – b’cos there ain’t enough of them to be a constant threat in the world, no matter what the teachings
Reason islam is dreaded as an ideology even more lethal than Communism or Nazism is that there are 1.8 billion> muslims worldwide, or some 25% of the world’s population, and now there in countries all over the world, not just the extended Middle East and the East Indies
James Lincoln says
Ahmed Anwar,
Muslims, in various degrees, support islam – a totalitarian religious/political ideology whose goal is to impose sharia law throughout the world.
They range anywhere from “muslims in name only” to very devout kinetic jihadis.
It is certainly rational to have a problem with people who value any part of that belief system.
Larry Culp says
Islamsists say, ” Peace, Peace, when there is no peace”. Every Muslim is an ungodly sinner, and a liar, and is doomed to go to he’ll, unless he repents of his wickedness, Believes on THE LORD JESUS CHRIST, and becomes Saved.
Larry Culp says
GOD hates the wicked, and so also do THE RIGHTEOUS SONS OF. GOD: CHRISTIANS: ” THE Boastful shall not stand in YOUR SIGHT; YOU HATE all workers of iniquity” ( Psalm 5:5); ” As it is written, ‘ Jacob I HAVE LOVED An Esau I HAVE HATED” ( Romans 9:13;” DO I not hate them who hate thee O LORD? I HATE THEM WITH PERFECT HATRED”
Larry Culp says
GOD hates the wicked, and so also do THE RIGHTEOUS SONS OF. GOD: CHRISTIANS: ” THE Boastful shall not stand in YOUR SIGHT; YOU HATE all workers of iniquity” ( Psalm 5:5); ” As it is written, ‘ Jacob I HAVE LOVED An Esau I HAVE HATED” ( Romans 9:13;” DO I not hate them who hate thee O LORD? I HATE THEM WITH PERFECT HATRED”” I HATE THE Double minded, But I LOVE YOUR LAW” ( Psalm 119:13
Larry Culp says
I Look on the faithless with loathing, FOR They DO Not Obey YOUR WORD”( Psalm 119:158)
somehistory says
One of the verses that is so very clear for us is Proverbs 6.:16. This says the very ‘things that God **hates**’ and they are all things that mozlums do every day, every where they live, esp in large numbers. The “lying tongue” is evident even when their numbers are lower.
If all mozlums renounced islam, its book of evil filth, its fake ‘prophet,’ and false ‘god,’ islam would cease to exist. Without humans supporting it, the rest of us could just carry on with our lives without wondering if islam..the mozlums keeping it going …will take over and engulf every aspect of our existence.
somehistory says
Well, I won’t be quoting you, but not for the *reasons* you seem to suggest here. And not reading any more either.
When it comes to islam, I look at the fruits…if you are, as you claim to be Christian, you will get the reference…of those who make a devoted practice of it. I don’t read the filth of the book, nor do I refer to the fake ‘prophet’ by name or with any caps. It’s all from satan the devil and I don’t hold back from saying so.
gravenimage says
From Muslim to Christian: My Journey (Part 1)
…………………………………
Interesting account from Ahmed Anwar. I’ll look forward to reading Part 2.
I hope this challenge from the “Scottish guy” led to a real evaluation of Islam itself and what it teaches.
Pray Hard says
“don’t you dare try exploiting my testimony by using it as a tool to spread hatred against Muslims”
“but that doesn’t give me or you the right to act hostile towards Muslims and commit acts of bigotry towards them”
Baloney. Still moslem to the bone. When “converts from islam” start telling me what to say and think, I know they’ve not changed one iota. Go back to the desert until you get your head right, dude. You ain’t there yet.
somehistory says
I find that I agree. We have the “right” to oppose their belief system and if they take is as “hatred’ or “bigotry,” then that is their problem. Heck, one can’t even tell the Truth without threats of death…and for the women who speak the Truth, rape comes in to their threats, as we saw with the lady in India.
Ahmed Anwar says
Of course you have the right to oppose Islam as a belief system, I never said that opposing Islam makes you a bigot. I was making a distinction between the Muslim as people and Islam as an ideology.
somehistory says
I know what you were doing. I don’t get my “rights’ from other people. I get my “rights” from God.
I speak about those mozlums who rape and murder the same way Jesus spoke to the Pharisees….Jesus said, “you are from your father the devil and you wish to do the desires of your father…that one was a murderer in his beginning….”
Jesus also said that the devil “did not stand fast in the Truth because the Truth is not in him.”
islam is based on lies….one big one after another and all mozlums are taught to lie.
Jesus also said to His enemies, “you serpents and offspring of vipers, like whitewashed graves you are full of dead men’s bones; and like unwashed cups full of uncleanness; How are you to flee from the Judgment of Gehenna?”
His Apostle John said that there are “children of God, and children of the devil.”
He said the “children of the devil are evident because they do not love their brother.”
Now, since I agree with those things, I would, in your opinion, be a bigot. You are free to believe what you wish.
and I am of the opinion that reading the filthy book to ‘learn’ about islam is about like going to a porn site and downloading stuff so I can find out what perverts believe.
I don’t need either one. I do as Jesus said: I look for the “fruits” of people to see if they are “rotten” or if they are “good,” because a “rotten tree cannot produce good fruit.”
this should all be clear to a Christian. to a mozlum, not so much, I’m thinking.
To a Christian, it should all be acceptable as it aligns with Christ.
Infidel says
One has the right to oppose muslims as well! Being muslims is not an immutable characteristic like being Black, or being White, or being female. Just like you claim to have done, any muslim can discard islam, and then s/he is no longer a muslim
Also, in free societies, people have the right to be opposed to anyone for any reason. As Somehistory said, we don’t get our rights from each other: we get it from God
somehistory says
thank you, Infidel.
very good arguments, all around.
PRCS says
No one in the U.S. gets their rights from God.
Our nation’s population has become increasingly diverse since St. Augustine’s establishment in 1565. I doubt those first settlers could have imagined that progression.
Whether Jew, Christian, Muslim, Sikh, Hindu, Jain, or those who follow any other religion, or none, our rights come from the human beings who wrote our Constitution, the Bill Of Rights, and U.S. law.
One cannot violate those laws, without consequence.
Sorry, Linda Sarsour, but that’s the way it is.
gravenimage says
PRCS, Somehistory is saying that all humans get their rights from God, not implying that the US is a theocracy.
I imagine you know this.
Larry Culp says
He is not a CHRISTIAN, he is an imposter, a wolf in sheep’s clothing, who excuses Muslims for their ungodliness, and condemns CHIST for HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Larry Culp says
No one uses the Quran- the Satanic Verses, to witness to The children of the devil, the Muslims. Only the blind leading the blind to he’ll, uses the Quran to witness to the Muslims
somehistory says
and this is very telling: “As much as I oppose certain Islamic teachings ” from the author.
which ones does he not “oppose” and which ones does he “oppose”?
and he tells us what we should not “dare” to do while also telling us what he does not “condone.”
these are very revealing, imo.
Ahmed Anwar says
“He is not a CHRISTIAN”
Yes, I am a Christian whether you like it or not. Facts don’t care about your feelings.
“he is an imposter,”
No I am not.
“who excuses Muslims for their ungodliness”
Lies.
“and condemns CHIST for HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS.”
More lies.
tim gallagher says
My impression of islam, from when I read a little of the Koran, was that it is hate-filled and is full of an obsessive hatred for non-believers and there are lots of calls for Muslims to go out and kill the hated non-believers. When I meet Muslims who seem to be OK people, I always think that they seem decent people in spite of Islam and its hate filled nature. I can’t say that I know any Muslims well. Christianity is certainly full of calls to love your fellow man, and Jesus provides a very good example. I am a Christian, well I’ve got my doubts at times, and I know that I am meant to try to love my fellow human beings, which I find bloody difficult in many cases. i often think, well, God, maybe one day I will love most, or all, people, but, for now, let me start by hating many people a bit less. I’m talking about people in general, not Muslims, who I dislike for various reasons. Anyone who ditches islam, and all its hatred, and becomes a Christian is surely on the right track. Christianity has higher ideals to aim for and seeks to bring more peace to humanity. Any time I hear the word peace being used about Islam, I always think that all Muslims mean is that when everyone caves in and is bullied into being a Muslim, only then there will be some peace.
somehistory says
tim,
I would like to give my opinion…my *understanding* of the command to “love your enemies” that Jesus gave.
When He gave that command, He told us how God, His Father “loves”…by ‘giving rain and sunshine to both righteous and unrighteous.’
Jesus did not go out of His way to meet up with those who hated Him and wanted Him dead. They kept meeting up with Him in order to get something on Him that they could use…to say He was breaking the Law and deserved death. He knew this and called them out for what they were…but He didn’t assault them, go lying about them, or in other ways try to hurt them.
He even told those who listened to Him to “do as they say, but not as they do.”
He was showing God’s love to those enemies of His just as He was showing love to those who were responding to Him and His message about the Kingdom and the “good news.”
A Christian is supposed to do the best of their ability to copy His example. The Apostle Peter wrote in his first letter, that Jesus “left you a model, to follow His footsteps closely.” And the Apostle Paul said, “Become imitators of me as I am of the Christ.”
Both Jesus Christ and the Apostle Paul called out those who behave in evil ways. Paul did so in his letter to the congregation of Christians in Thessalonica and to the young Christian, Timothy. And also to the Roman Christians, and those in Corinth.
And as I have written many times, Jesus did not hesitate to call His enemies “snakes” “hypocrites,’ and other things to show they are following satan.
so, we don’t have to make friends with people who hate our God or our Lord Jesus and wish to see us dead. We are just not supposed to go out and do them harm.
to hold back the Truth, is also not showing love to others. we must speak if we have the opportunity.
tim gallagher says
Thanks for the informative comment, somehistory. Very sensible advise. I am something of a hater without a doubt, but i have had plenty of pretty bad experiences in life, as many of us have, so I do get pretty pissed off with quite a number of people. I am not too concerned about this because I figure that God, the loving type of Christian God, is pretty understanding. Maybe, over time, that God will change me and improve me. But as you say, I don’t go out to harm people, I just avoid those I dislike as much as possible. As I have said before, you have an extraordinary, very detailed knowledge of the Bible and thanks for the advice. I see me doing a lot of time in Purgatory, (maybe that’s a Catholic concept) kind of like going to jail in the afterlife as I see it, but finally being let into Heaven by a merciful God. Anyway, we’ll all find out one day.
somehistory says
thank you, tim, and you are welcome to whatever information I may be able to impart.
I understand about the “hating’ and avoiding. I see so much wrong…around me and in the news and a lot of it makes me angry and I feel sometimes like “hating” people in general. And I try to avoid those whom I know will make me feel the anger.
I’m not Catholic, so I don’t believe in a purgatory. we are all having *trials* right now, much like what Job experienced when the devil challenged God to remove His protection and Job would fall like rotten fruit from a tree.
Job went through a lot, and passed the test. We are having our tests now and God is watching to see if we will rely on Him, ask Him for help and do our best at listening to Him.
There is a Proverb, 27:11, where God says, “Be wise, my son, and make my heart rejoice, that I may make a reply to him that is taunting me.”
God is merciful and kind and helps us get up when we stumble. He “forgives in a large way.”
Jesus said this forgiveness means “life eternal.” Much for which to look forward.
tim gallagher says
Thanks for the comment, somehistory. The story of Job certainly resonates with me and many other people, without a doubt. Life is hard going for lots of people and I guess we have to count on God to carry us along during the hard times. I often do ask God to carry me through the bad times just as most believers would do.. I get by OK most of the time. I believe that life must be very hard to survive for people who are afflicted with really painful, chronic diseases.. That would be really tough. So far, touch wood, i have avoided such painful medical conditions and feel fortunate for that luck. All the best to you in the things you are doing..
somehistory says
thank you, Tim.
I have had some severe trials…was close to death more than once, but thankfully, in each case, I had a good doctor who used his skills to bring me through. I thank my God for those doctors and the timing of being in the best place to benefit from their skills.
sometimes I look back on those times, and think that there must be some *reason* for surviving so many close calls. So, I try to use my time doing what I think He wants me to do. I’m grateful for all of the help He has given me and I look forward to receiving the full reward some day.
I hope you continue in good health and things continue to work out well for you.
Jay Lykins says
Perhaps the writer could say something about Islam’s eschatological views . . .?
Ahmed Anwar says
Islamic eschatology is antisemitic at its core.
Jay Lykins says
Could you please explain how you see that? What is it that you see as antisemitic about Islamic eschatology?
Jay Lykins says
Could you please explain how you see that? What is it that you see as antisemitic?
gravenimage says
Jay, I cannot speak for Ahmed Anwar, but an infamous Hadith says,
“Judgement Day will not come until the Muslims fight the Jews. The Jews will hide behind the stones and the trees, and the stones and the trees will say, oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew hiding behind me — come and kill him.”
This is pretty antisemitic.
Jay Lykins says
OK, thanks. Not sure I find it any more antisemitic than other phrases talking about infidels, though. Matter of degree I guess. Thanks.
gravenimage says
Thanks, Jay.
Shema says
The Islam is strong with this one.
somehistory says
his ‘warning’ to everyone…basically calling names…seems like a lecture on how mozlums should be treated; as in, with respect.
I’ve been thinking about his “reasoning” on not looking at the people the same way as the ideology. As in, ‘oppose islam’ but don’t ‘oppose mozlums.’ Sure, tell a mozlum, “‘I’m not going to convert because islam is evil,” and then, when the mozlum takes out a knife to cut the throat, don’t oppose him.
Jay Lykins says
Muslims are not the problem; Islam is the problem.
somehistory says
sure. and the lesson is: if no one accepted *the problem,* then there couldn’t be a problem, but because many millions upon millions accept the problem as being wonderful, there is still a problem.
Knives don’t kill, guns don’t kill, cars don’t kill, ropes and scarves don’t kill, People kill.
mozlums kill..
Infidel says
Both are the problem! You need to lose the “Love the sinner, hate the sin” cliche
Ahmed Anwar says
“and then, when the mozlum takes out a knife to cut the throat, don’t oppose him.”
You’re maliciously twisting my words. I never said that that you can’t defend yourself if a Muslim is trying to kill you.
somehistory says
No, I’m not “twisting” anything. You said not to “oppose” the person, the mozlum.
Defending oneself against an attack by a mozlum intent on killing, is “opposing” that person.
See the definition of “oppose” includes by words….and you said don’t do that. unless the mozlum wants to hear it.
You:” ‘Of course you have the right to oppose Islam as a belief system, I never said that opposing Islam makes you a bigot. I was making a distinction between the Muslim as people and Islam as an ideology.'”
In your determination, it is okay for me to oppose islam, but I must make a “distinction between” the people and the ideology.
‘disapprove of and attempt to prevent, especially by argument:’
‘compete against (someone) in a contest:’
“actively resist or refuse to comply with (a person or a system):’
“synonyms:
be against · object to · be hostile to · be anti · be in opposition to · disagree with · dislike · disapprove of · resist · take a stand against · put up a fight against · stand up to · take on · fight · withstand · defy · set one’s face against · stand up and be counted against · go against · counter · cross · confront · challenge · contend with · attack · counterattack · combat · fly in the face of · take issue with · contradict · dispute · rebut · argue with/against · quarrel with · gainsay · controvert’
Source: Bing
Self-defense includes some of those in the “synonyms” for “oppose.” the person as well as just “confront” or “challenge” and “take issue with” and “contradict.” and a whole lot more.
gravenimage says
Somehistory, Ahmed Anwar said that he “oppose(s) certain Islamic teachings” and doesn’t extend that to Muslims in general can be taken as his saying you cannot defend yourself against Jihad terror.
somehistory says
Yes, g. I have some doubts about what he has claimed to be. can’t help it, knowing how mozlusm are taught to lie. and his bossiness about what we “dare” not do and what “rights” we don’t have.
People says
All I know is that the rapists, stabbers, bomb exploders are Muslims
Muslims are a cancer for humanity
Don’t you dare to tell me what to think about Muslims, I say and think what I want.
Jamie James says
How can anyone not hate Islam? It is a cult not a religion, no religion demands the killing of non-believers and punishes anyone that criticize it?
Infidel says
Thank you! A point that some of us have been trying to make for a while
https://www.faithfreedom.org/islam-cult-or-religion
Ahmed Anwar says
Since when did I say that you couldn’t hate Islam? I never said you couldn’t hate Islam, nor did I say that you shouldn’t. I was making a distinction between Muslims as people and Islam as a Religion, and that you shouldn’t hate Muslims on the grounds that Islam has bad teachings. Robert Spencer has literally only just shared the first part of my story, and there’s already a lot of people misrepresenting me in the comments.
somehistory says
No one is “misrepresenting” you. I am “opposed” to being told what I can and cannot “feel” or think regarding a group of people who would be happy to see me dead…many of whom would be only too eager to see that it happened.
If not for the “people” following the commands of the book, how much chaos would be caused by the ‘book’ or ‘ideology”? How much death and destruction would happen if the book just lay on a table someplace and no one read or followed it?
And I reject the **entire** thing; unlike your claim that you “oppose certain Islamic teachings”
It’s very difficult to accept your claims of converting to Christianity after reading your “first part.” Just being honest, as Jesus said to do.
Ahmed Anwar says
Yes, you are misrepresenting me by assuming that my condemnation of anti-Muslim bigotry amounts to saying that I am telling people that they shouldn’t defend themselves if Muslims are trying to kill them. My entire second disclaimer was about bigotry. That is a non sequiter because bigotry and seff defense are not the same.
You also seem to be assuming that all Muslims are blood thirsty Jihadis that want to kill and/or subjugate all non-Muslims. This might explain why you’re assuming I prohibit non-Muslims from defending themselves from Jihadis, which again, is a false assumption predicated on false premises.
somehistory says
you can argue all you wish, but you have yet to convince me that you are truly Christian.
And you didn’t refute the definitions of “oppose” that I provided, nor that you don’t have any authority….as mozlum, ex-mozlum, or otherwise, to decide what rights we do or do not have.
My feelings remain. I’m not convinced.
Andrew Blackadder says
If I tell a muslim fellow that I believe his religion seems very violent and he then turns around and attacks me very violently for saying this then I ask… Is he being a good muslim by doing so?.
muhamad, may piss be upon him, met a FALLEN Angel in a cave while he was stoned on Hashish.
This is why since his first thought of creating this evil ”religion” it was all founded on violence, attacking those who politely disagreed and did not wish to join his gang, so he called for their death, off with their heads… Today they continue what he taught….
If it was not a death sentence for the average muslim living in an islamic Nation to leave islam, convert to another faith, or none at all, then islam would cease to exist.
Ive known Christians living in Saudi Arabia,working, that they converted MANY muslims to Christianity but those people cannot publicly declare their new faith to their family, let alone to the Saudi Arabian society at large as they would be beheaded…. What kind of religion cuts off your head because you have changed your MIND about what god is, or isnt… A Fascist Religious Cult like islam is the answer to that question.
Ahmed Anwar says
Islam is a very violent and oppressive Religion indeed. My heart goes out to my fellow ex-Muslim Christians who are suffering in the Middle East.
gravenimage says
+1
Infidel says
How stupid do you think people here are?
I suggest that you read the comments on the jihadwatch side of this site for a few days to get an idea of what we think about both, before assuming that any of us are remotely interested about discussing islam w/ muslims. Also, pro-tip: drop the use of phrases like “don’t you dare….” while talking to people
People says
Exactly
Ahmed Anwar says
This is the first time an article written by me has been posted here. I’m not used to you guys and had no idea what you were like.
Infidel says
And so you just assumed that some of us are “Right-Wing Extremists”, whatever that means these days, and some of us are sincere people, who among other things, interested in talking to muslims about islam
This site is a news site that talks about acts of islamic supremacy worldwide, be it in the US or Indonesia or Nigeria or even Pakistan. Regular readers of this site are used to muslims reacting hysterically whenever islam/Mohammed/allah are mentioned, and so none of us, regardless of where we stand on the political spectrum, are stupid enough to start a conversation w/ a practicing muslim about islam (unless we happen to be armed on the spot)
Which is why it’s a good idea to get a snapshot of the opinions on this site before assuming what various people are, much less threatening them
gravenimage says
Agreed, Infidel.
Ahmed Anwar says
I didn’t make any assumptions of whether any of you on Jihad Watch are Right Wing Extremists or not. In actuality, I didn’t know what to expect from you guys. The reason why I had these disclaimers is because I don’t want anyone misusing my story to violently attack Muslims. This has happened to Robert Spencer, do you remember Anders Breivik? He was a terrorist who misused Robert Spencer’s writings to kill 77 people. Breivik wrongly used Spencer’s work to justify terrorism because Spencer doesn’t condone violent attacks on people.
You need to keep in mind that this story is going to be read by hundreds of people, in AND outside of Jihad Watch because Robert Spencer promoted this article on Twitter, and over 230 people liked his tweet. As time goes on, more and more people are going to read my story. I want to pre-emptively stifle anyone from trying to use my work to justify violence against Muslims. This isn’t to say that I am against self defense in encounters with Jihadis; self defense is legal in many western countries, and it’s not like anyone needs my writings to justify self defense in encounters with Jihadis.
gravenimage says
Ahmed Anwar wrote:
I didn’t make any assumptions of whether any of you on Jihad Watch are Right Wing Extremists or not. In actuality, I didn’t know what to expect from you guys. The reason why I had these disclaimers is because I don’t want anyone misusing my story to violently attack Muslims.
………………………..
Mr. Anwar, I think the assumption that Anti-Jihadists violently attack Muslims is the issue. This is *not* the case–neither Robert Spencer nor any commenters here have advocated any such thing.
More:
This has happened to Robert Spencer, do you remember Anders Breivik? He was a terrorist who misused Robert Spencer’s writings to kill 77 people. Breivik wrongly used Spencer’s work to justify terrorism because Spencer doesn’t condone violent attacks on people.
………………………..
Actually, Breivik referred to Robert Spencer several times–along with may other writers–but the claim that he used Spencer’s writings to commit terrorism is mistaken. Robert Spencer has in fact *never* advocated violence, as you note. Pointing out that Islam is violent is not advocating violence.
More:
You need to keep in mind that this story is going to be read by hundreds of people, in AND outside of Jihad Watch because Robert Spencer promoted this article on Twitter, and over 230 people liked his tweet. As time goes on, more and more people are going to read my story.
………………………..
This is true–but this prologue gives the impression that Anti-Jihadists here advocate violence against Muslims and have to be threatened to not do so. This is simply not the case.
More:
I want to pre-emptively stifle anyone from trying to use my work to justify violence against Muslims.
………………………..
You still don’t say who here has *ever* done such a thing–you just assume that this is the case. I’m afraid this implication is calumny, although I realize it is probably not intended as such.
More:
This isn’t to say that I am against self defense in encounters with Jihadis; self defense is legal in many western countries, and it’s not like anyone needs my writings to justify self defense in encounters with Jihadis.
………………………..
Well, that’s a good thing…
gravenimage says
Actually, many of us here have discussed Islam with Muslims.
One thing not mentioned is how hazardous this can be–many Muslims react violently if they meet with any criticism of their faith, and Islam itself teaches this.
There is also the common issue of Taqiyya–many Muslims whitewash their creed to Infidels.
Infidel says
Discussing islam w/ muslims online is very different from discussing islam w/ muslims in person, which is the story that Mr Anwar was alluding to in his essay above
somehistory says
I have in person, with more than one. On more than one occasion. He was “assuming” that we are all ignorant of islam, the way mozlums think, and with no experience with discussions….
gravenimage says
True. I *have* discussed Islam with Muslims, but only in public places where it is easy to get away if need be and police are stationed nearby–in one case, in a subway station in San Francisco where “Why Islam?” had put up a table.
But critically discussing Islam with Muslims can potentially be *very* dangerous.
PMK says
Ahmed Anwar says
I NEVER said fearing Islam makes you an anti-Muslim bigot.
I beg to differ. Here is the full sentence. You said use anti-Muslim bigot instead of Islamophobia. Here is the complete sentence:
As much as I oppose certain Islamic teachings and the use of the word Islamophobia (which is a nonsensical word, just say anti-Muslim bigot), I also condemn right wing extremists, white supremacists and any anti-Muslim bigot out there.
You oppose CERTAIN Islamic teachings. Which ones do you still support?
You also said: Judge Islam by the Quran (the Word of Allah, the Islamic God) and the Sunnah (sayings, deeds and actions of Muhammad,
That’s what we are doing. The Quran is filled with verses that condemn the existence of non-Muslims. Muhammed said to kill anyone who leaves Islam. The example of Muhammed is one of violence toward, and degradation of, those who are not Muslim.
I still await the rest of your story.
Ahmed Anwar says
“I beg to differ. Here is the full sentence. You said use anti-Muslim bigot instead of Islamophobia. Here is the complete sentence:
As much as I oppose certain Islamic teachings and the use of the word Islamophobia (which is a nonsensical word, just say anti-Muslim bigot), I also condemn right wing extremists, white supremacists and any anti-Muslim bigot out there.
You oppose CERTAIN Islamic teachings. Which ones do you still support?”
Why do you have to give such a malicious and uncharitable interpretation of my words?
I still support the belief in One God, the belief in Satan, the belief in the afterline, the belief in Angels, the belief in miracles and basically anything that Islam and Christianity agree on. There are many things in Islam that I condemn, but that doesn’t mean I condemn EVERYTHING about Islam. There are certain Islamic teachings that aren’t unique to Islam (the ones I’ve already mentioned) that I agree with, and there’s other stuff that I am indifferent with,
Let it make it crystal clear that I condem: I condemn Muhammad. I condemn the Sahabah. I condemn the Shari’ah. I condemn Jihad warfare. I condemn Islamic supremacy. Is that good enough for you?
gravenimage says
Thanks for the list.
Ahmed Anwar says
What really disappoints and irritates me is how some of you guys are outraged at the fact that I tried to humanise Muslims, rather than painting them all with the same brush, and made a distinction between Muslims as people and Islam as an ideology.
somehistory says
What “really disappoints” me is that someone can claim to be Christian, yet, write and *reason* as the mozlum he said he was previously. And then get angry when others dispute his *authority* to tell us what to think and what to oppose.
According to the Bible, maybe a verse you never read or considered, one must “Put on the new personality which was created according to God’s Righteousness.” In other words, we must have the “mind of Christ.”
Your “story” and your “irritation” at the rest of us….some of us Christians who understand what that means…and many not, who may not know enough to dispute your claims… doesn’t sound like you have a good understanding as you claim.
Outrage? as for “humanizing” mozlums,….they are human the same way the Pharisees were in the time of Jesus Christ. and a few of those became Christians….but only a few. The others were glad to see Him dead. Just as the vast majority of mozlums…if not every one of them…is glad when Christians are slaughtered.
And mozlums may talk about their twisted, ugly and evil version of Jesus, but it’s all a bunch of lies.
gravenimage says
Mr. Anwar, I think the problem is that you start with the assumption that because someone is an Anti-Jihadist that there is a good chance that they are “right wing extremists, white supremacists and…anti-Muslim bigots” and that they are “hostile towards Muslims and commit acts of bigotry towards them”. I don’t know of *anyone* here who has done any such thing, and I’ve been reading and commenting here since 2006.
Then, the apparent belief that Anti-Jihadists are all White is also mistaken–in fact, there are people here who are White, Black, Hispanic, Native American, east Asian, and from south and south-east Asia, including other ex-Muslims.
And Islam is *not a race*. As you should know, there are Muslims of every race–including those who are White–both Muslims from places like Albania and Chechnya, and also Western converts.
That you also threaten readers about what they are and are not allowed to think, and take a very hostile stance to begin with likely did not help matters, characterizing readers as potentially “dishonest and despicable” who want to use you as a tool to spread hatred against Muslims.
Really, opposing Jihad terror is not like this. Robert Spence is not like this. Other contributors here are not like this. Vanishingly few readers or commenters here are like this, including the posters here you have clashed with.
I’m sorry that this thread has turned so contentious, and I want to hear more about your journey out of Islam–but I also understand why some here have found some of your writings concerning.
Ahmed Anwar says
“Mr. Anwar, I think the problem is that you start with the assumption that because someone is an Anti-Jihadist that there is a good chance that they are “right wing extremists, white supremacists and…anti-Muslim bigots” and that they are “hostile towards Muslims and commit acts of bigotry towards them”. I don’t know of *anyone* here who has done any such thing, and I’ve been reading and commenting here since 2006.”
This is a false premise, and your entire comment is predicated on this false premise.
I do not believe that being an Anti-Jihadist means that there is “a good chance” that they are “right wing extremists, white supremacists and…anti-Muslim bigots” and that they are “hostile towards Muslims and commit acts of bigotry towards them” at all. If that was the case, I would never have given Robert Spencer permission to post my story on his blog, but I did because I have a lot of respect for Spencer.
You need to keep in mind that this story is going to be read by hundreds of people, in AND outside of Jihad Watch because Robert Spencer promoted this article on Twitter, and over 230 people liked his tweet. As time goes on, more and more people are going to read my story, and who knows how many. I want to pre-emptively stifle anyone from trying to use my work to justify violence against Muslims. Do you remember Anders Breivik? He was a terrorist who misused Robert Spencer’s writings to kill 77 people. Breivik wrongly used Spencer’s work to justify terrorism because Spencer doesn’t condone violent attacks on people.
somehistory says
In that case, you should just have said something such as, I hope anyone out there who might read this and perhaps has little knowledge and understanding of the topic, will refrain from misusing my story in a way that would alter my purpose in writing it.
and forget the “don’t you dare,” and “you have no rights” to your feelings about mozlums and “i don’t condone”….which is no way to get people to listen to what comes next.
you misjudged your audience. We recognize arrogance. And we know what islam is all about, as well as the way the vast majority of mozlums feel about us.
gravenimage says
Mr. Anwar–with respect–I doubt you would have included this lengthy warning to readers here if you didn’t think that some would potentially react with violence. Never mind that *no* poster here has advocated violence, and in fact no such comment would be allowed here.
And Breivik, as I note elsewhere on this thread, referred to Robert Spencer–and many others–but never said that Spencer inspired his violence–and as you note Spencer has *never* advocated violence.
Walter Sieruk says
The way for a person to discover the truth concerning the nature of Jesus is found in the Bible verse Isaiah 8:20. This instructs “To the law of the testimony. If they do not speak according to the word, it is because there is no light in them.” [N.K.J.V.]
In other words, if a religious teacher has teaching that are in contradiction to the Word, the Bible, then that teachers is a false teacher who teaches false doctrines. The Muslim clerics, as the imam and mullahs, teach and speak doctrines about God from the Quran .
As the Quran in 112 teaches “He is God alone: God is the eternal begetteth not…” Likewise, this religious book which is the entire foundation of and for Islam further teaches in 19:35. “It is not befitting to God that He should beget a son.” In great contrast the Bible teaches in John 1:14. “The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory , the glory of the only begotten of the Father ,full of grace and truth.”
Likewise John 3:16 teaches “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son… Then just a little further in verse 18 it is written about Jesus Who is “the only begotten Son of God. “ Other places in the Bible further teach that Jesus is the Son of God as in Matthew 16:15:16. Luke 1:35. John 3:36. First John 4:14. 15. 5:14,15. Moreover to be even more clear the Bible teaches that Jesus is the Son of God, Who is God the Father. As found in Matthew 3:16,17. First John 2:22,23. 4:14,15. Of course , it ,very much, needs to made even more specific . The Bible teaches that Jesus is also God the Son. As seen in Hebrew 1:8 and First John 5:20.
The imams and mullahs as well as the other apologists for Islam will try to “explain” this all away. As in they will try brush off all those Bible verse off by making the claim that the Bible had been corrupted, through time, by Christians and that’s why the Bible reads as it does. That claim they make actually underestimate the Power of God to protect and keep His Word safe and intact ,through time, and away from the corruption of men.
In conclusion ,with the above instruction of the way to find doctrinal truth in Isaiah 8:20 and in the light of the Bible verse provided it may be clearly seen, by all those who are willing to see, that Islam is in terrible doctrinal error and it is therefore a false religion, Proverbs 14:12. John 14:6.
Walter Sieruk says
There’s the Bible based Christian site which replies to the many different claims made by the imams and mullahs as well as the other apologists for Islam. It’s answering-islam.org
Jodi Lindley says
Wow don’t judge Muslims 🙄. Of course they don’t judge do they.
They and there religion have done nothing but judge the rest of us.
And turned my father’s country into a Islamic state.
HOW DARE YOU tells us what we can and cannot think or say. This is why Britain is in the mess it’s in. Your Muslims and there vile beliefs,and there victim mentality have done but judge the west. Bringing your sharia into our lands, building your mosques and using them to radicalise young people and spew your hatred of western values after we give you, everything.
I have nothing but distain for your BS. We should all grow bigger balls and put you all in your place.
Christians countries have become door mats for you to walk over.
Thank Gd Australia won’t make the same mistake as Britian.Its a shame Israel puts up with your BS a well.
Ahmed Anwar says
“Wow don’t judge Muslims”
I never said you shouldn’t and can’t judge Muslims. You guys need to stop with these malicious misinterpretations of my words. And for the record, I actually live in the UK, and the UK if anything, is more influenced by Atheism than Islam, all thanks to Secularism. I’ve met so many ex-Muslim Atheists who live in the UK, and a few of my relatives actually left Islam and became Atheists.
somehistory says
“You guys need to stop with these malicious misinterpretations of my words. ”
Oh, sure. we are the ‘guys” being “malicious” and “misinterpreting” your words. And you demand that we “stop.”
You did write that we should read the book of filth …my description, yes…to get the full understanding of islam…v. looking at mozlums to see what islam is all about.
And…..a quote from you in your very own words….**not twisting or misinterpreting”….
Quote: “But also don’t forget that you shouldn’t judge Muslims based on Islam “…
Notice the words from you; “you shouldn’t *****judge””””…who shouldn’t we “judge”? mozlums….my spelling of the group we are told not to judge.
See, that is where I find a difficulty in believing your claim that you have left islam…and its incessant demands….behind. You want us to just accept everything you write and when we don’t…you go off on a temper tantrum and try to change what you, yourself, wrote as *directions* for us.
Ahmed Anwar says
“You guys need to stop with these malicious misinterpretations of my words. ”
Oh, sure. we are the ‘guys” being “malicious” and “misinterpreting” your words. And you demand that we “stop.”
You did write that we should read the book of filth …my description, yes…to get the full understanding of islam…v. looking at mozlums to see what islam is all about.
And…..a quote from you in your very own words….**not twisting or misinterpreting”….
Quote: “But also don’t forget that you shouldn’t judge Muslims based on Islam “…
Notice the words from you; “you shouldn’t *****judge””””…who shouldn’t we “judge”? mozlums….my spelling of the group we are told not to judge.”
As usual, you are decontextualising my words and looking at thinks black and white, rather than being nuanced like I’m trying to be. The fact that I said you shouldn’t judge Muslims based on what Islam teaches, and shouldn’t judge Islam based on what Muslims do, doesn’t mean that I am saying you shouldn’t judge them them in other circumstances, I’m not making an all encompassing statement. It also doesn’t mean you can’t, because I’m not forcing you, I’m just advising you. There’s a difference between shouldn’t and can’t. If you don’t want to accept my advice, then fine. That’s up to you. I’m allowed to give you advice, but at the same time, you’re allowed to have the choice of whether you accept or not.
“See, that is where I find a difficulty in believing your claim that you have left islam…and its incessant demands….behind. You want us to just accept everything you write and when we don’t…you go off on a temper tantrum and try to change what you, yourself, wrote as *directions* for us.”
In other words, you’re a hyper skeptic who is arbitrarily refusing to accept my clarification of my own words… Which I wrote… In favour of your own misintepretation that’s lacking in nuance, and proceed to falsely accusing me of having a tamper tantrum for trying to correct you. I feel like I’m talking to a Jesus Mythicist.
somehistory says
Haha. You don’t like the criticism from people who object to the language you use, and you call names and try to cast aspersions.
I have a bit of news for you. I have been studying the Bible…probably for far longer than you have been studying your book of filth you have gone at great lengths to explain… and I’ve learned how to spot people who use God’s Word in a pretense.
Furthermore, when one “corrects’ another, the one doing the correcting should know the subject and what actually **needs*** to be corrected.
You said not to “judge.’ and when you were quoted on that, you make an attempt…while insulting…to say you didn’t mean what you wrote, but it was “nuanced” and we are just too ignorant to know that.
We need to put on our rose-tinted glasses and read in a “nuanced” way so we don’t see what you seem to mean, but only how you want it to be taken after we don’t appreciate the way you meant it.
Have you told all of you family and friends that you have converted? If will probably be safer for you to talk to a “mythicist.” than to mozlums.
and, even though you have made an attempt to insult me, I’m not going to try to have you killed for it. as mozlums would do…and that’s looking at the “fruit,” and not “judging” them at all.