These terrorists plan to have the last laugh, my friend.
somehistorysays
How many times was obl dead before he was? this replacement for the dead terrorist, should have kicked the bucket long ago. Just look at those eyes! Looks kind of like he’s “meeting his Maker” and it’s just as the Bible says it will be for those evil devil followers.
mortimersays
Dr. Zawahiri M.D. was a disciple of ideologue Sayyid Qutb. He created his own terrorist organization and joined others. In spite of graduating in a profession that saves lives and heals, he became a plotter who sought to murder and maim anyone who disagreed with him.
Zawahiri participated in a number of US embassy attacks and in planning 9/11.
As I predicted, it would not take long for major Islamic terror groups to re-establish themselves in Afghastlistan and begin again their program of exporting terror.
The Taliban, ISIS and Al Qaida are not so much rivals as they are allies in the Islamic terror industry.
Now, Al Qaida will need to plot its revenge as required by the Koran and Islamic law.
Infidelsays
Mortimer
Aren’t you gonna condemn this killing, given that Zawahiri was a human being in the eyes of God, and that he had the wrong information? Whatever happened to due process? Shouldn’t Blinken have asked the Taliban to extradite him here?
somehistorysays
thanks, Infidel, for the laugh. If they called him a slug, scum, a snake……
mortimersays
Infidel, we condemn the sin and love the sinner. Mahatma Gandhi said, ‘Hate the sin and love the sinner’, according to his biography. Ayman al-Zawahiri was an international criminal who commited deadly crimes against the United States and other countries. He was wanted by police worldwide.
To fight such people militarily and in police action is a duty of those in uniform. To punish them is the duty of the legal system. To pass laws that prohibit their evil deeds is the duty of politicians.
The definition of bigotry is obstinate or intolerant devotion to one’s own opinions and prejudices : the state of mind of a bigot.
We should not dehumanize the ‘other’. That would be bigotry. Are you a bigot?
Infidelsays
By your definition, yeah, I am a bigot!
Sins don’t exist in vacuums: they exist b’cos sinners commit them. So the idea of loving them while hating what they did is an exercise in denial usually granted to family members of the sinners in question. Outside that circle, one needs to recognize the sinner and the sin as a part of the same package, and treat them as a single entity
Mohandas (I refuse to use the honorific “Mahatma” which means “great soul”, since he was a vile soul) Gandhi was a putrid character and probably the founder of muslim appeasement anywhere in the world. Before his time, muslims in India were regarded as what they were: barbarians: it was he who normalized them and empowered them to the point that they felt bold enough to demand Pakistan, as well as excessive rights within India itself. And the sad thing is that everybody from his home state Gujarat – including Prime Minister Modi and Home Minister Amit Shah – lionize him. Which is why India has such an active jihadist community
Gandhi also slept nude w/ his granddaughter and his niece-in-law (to test his ‘self-control’), and a lot of his associates were scandalized by his activities. Oh, and he also advised Jews who came to him to surrender themselves to Hitler and challenge him to slaughter them. Oh, and another thing – during his time in South Africa, he was an unapologetic racist, who used the term “kuffar” to refer to South African Blacks – the same term used by local muslims to describe them
Anybody who considers Gandhi a hero after knowing all this would be a moral retard (and as the parent of a kid on the spectrum, I don’t use that term lightly). Are you a moral retard?
somehistorysays
bigotry: “obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction, in particular prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group:’
“Unreasonable”….much like the “phobia” preached by mozlums. Aha!
In the case of mozlums, it’s due to their “actions”….not their “membership” ; it’s due to their words, and their perverse practices.
btw, mort i mer…..
You keep writing that ‘thousands’ are leaving islam because they find out it’s all man-made….Even if “thousands” are leaving, they should be leaving due to the evil, perverse, demonic commands and the filth of the writings.
You keep saying that **many*** don’t “practice” but are mino’s and don’t follow the commands except that they have to.
Now, you haven’t said it in so many words, but you must secretly acknowledge that there are millions who approve of the rape, the slaughter, the terror and pass out candy and celebrate, and help train the next generation of terrorists. You just daily paste their commands here as if everyone must acknowledge that they are legit and we shouldn’t criticize mozlums for following them.
Then, there are the rapists, the murderers, the terrorists, the abusers of children, the ‘doctors” who mutilate little kids, and rape babies and lie about it.
If the terrorists, rapists, murderers, liars, the trainers, the celebrators, etc. all have “wrong information” (hint: there is no such thing as “wrong information” because “information” is by necessity, True)…why do you even bother telling us over and over how “human” they are and at the same time, saying they are “wrong”?
You are putting them in with the same group you *laud* for “leaving” because they find out it’s all man-made stuff.
And, you sometimes quote Bible verses which you post to bolster your comments, but i see here you are relying on m ghandi for your “love the sinner,…”
The Bible does not say “love the sinner and hate the sin” or “hate the sin and love the sinner.” It does not say that.
Christians do not rely on an imperfect, and nasty, perverse, human for Commands by which to live, nor quoting those who do not know Christ as a *reason* for actions or words to follow.
Christians quote Christ as to how to live and treat others.
and He called such ones who were evil, “snakes” and children of the devil, as well as other things of which **you** don’t approve.
You, if anyone here is a bigot, it’s you.
gravenimagesays
Mortimer, your idea that you are a bigot if your dare criticize savage Jihadists like Zawahiri is appalling.
Believing that opposing Jihad terror is “obstinate” is bizarre. On what basis should we *not* condemn this barbarism?
And Gandhi regularly appeased Islam. Not a good thing for India, actually.
Wellingtonsays
We’ll see. If so, good. And, if so, the bogus Biden Administration, which can’t help stumbling into the truth from time to time, like a stopped clock being right twice in a 24-hour period, will use this ad nauseam as a reason to vote for Democrats in the upcoming November elections.
Damn, sometimes life leaves you with a good result which is followed by a myriad of negative results. Besides, in the final analysis, even assuming this report is true, so many in DC—virtually all Democrats and about half of Republicans—will learn nothing about where the true menace lies.
The true menace here of course is Islam. All of it.
Infidelsays
I was watching the news on Newsmax, and it turned out that this administration first went through the lawyers to verify that it was legal to kill him in Afghanistan, then they planned it so that other than him, no one else was killed, and then the drone strike happened after they had identified the “patterns of life” of those around him so that only he was killed
Given all the restrictions that they had on this operation, it’s a wonder that it succeeded at all. Part of the reason may have been that this happened in Afghanistan and not Pakistan, where the Pakis would have had the opportunity to warn him before any strike happened, like they did dozens of times w/ both Osama and Zawahiri
mortimersays
The United States must fight its enemies lawfully, because whatever is unlawful will be ineffective and give an opening to the enemy for valid criticism.
If you never served in uniform you are ignorant of the rules of engagement.
Infidelsays
The idea that you think that terrorist groups have a valid criticism as to how they are treated shows you as pretty deranged. As the Sherif of Nottingham once said, “one does not hunt a mad dog w/ chivalry”
gravenimagesays
Mortimer, the idea that we have to respect the bloody Taliban is potentially disturbing.
gravenimagesays
Zawahiri dead?
…………………………
Could be–hope so. Of course, if he is I’m sure Al Qaida will pick some other pious thug to lead them.
somehistorysays
the next thug has most likely already been selected. this type of terror gang of which al queda is, would have seconds to obl, and then to zawahiri and the next guy in line.
Some gangs die out if the leader dies. But because al queda is part of the world-wide terror organization, and was basically begun as a child of the mb, there will always be another ‘leader’ thug to take over and make with the bragging threats.
rajasays
Somehistory,
The latest is that he is really dead. The silver lining is: Only America is capable of taking out rats from Islamic hellholes.
May Biden have horrid time in White house(with plummeting ratings) that he takes out more rats more often.
somehistorysays
Yes, raja, he didn’t look too healthy and it’s been a long time coming that he has been responsible for so much death. One reaps as one sows. He met the grim one.
Infidelsays
Despite all the pains they took to ensure that only he was killed, it’s a good thing that they struck him. As opposed to capturing him and then wondering whether to put him in Gitmo, or in the Colorado Supermax, or somewhere else
As I noted above to Wellington, it’s a wonder they got him given all the pains they took to ensure that no innocent al Qaeda operatives or his peaceful family members got hurt
somehistorysays
Ah, so no collateral damage. but old al q will likely want to take revenge for this sorry excuse for a human, anyway. His replacement is probably glad to be sitting in the seat of control. Ah, the good life. Killing, eating, hiding, killing, making videos, killing, ordering killing, and not to forget, not last or least, raping little girls and boys.
Infidelsays
Precisely, which is why going out of their way to prevent collateral damage was an exercise in futility
gravenimagesays
Pretty much sums it up, Somehistory.
rblasays
They were probably tracking him for a long time but didn’t want to take him out too close to the Afghanistan withdrawal since it would have undermined Biden’s claim that al Qaeda was not present in that country. But at this time with Biden’s approval tanking and the Dems in real danger our “protectors” in the intelligence agencies figured that now was the time. I apologize for my cynicism.
Infidelsays
Fun fact: Zawahiri is one of the first major al Qaeda leaders to be killed/captured in Afghanistan – the country we attacked after 9/11. The other major al Qaeda leaders who were hunted were hunted in Pakistan, be it Osama, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Abu Zubaida, Ramzi bin al Shib, et al
On Newsmax, James Rosen noted that we are approaching the anniversary of the chaotic withdrawal from Afghanistan, and in that context, this hit will be trumpeted as proof of how the their ‘over the horizon’ visibility works and how they don’t need ‘boots on the ground’. I have a suspicion that the Taliban did co-operate w/ the US in detecting where he was – in Kabul, no less. In the coming days, it might be interesting to find out where he was hiding all these years
Shemasays
Who cares!!!
Exactly….
Umasays
‘Justice has been delivered’: Al-Qaida leader al-Zawahri killed in US drone strike, Biden says’ .
Hope it is true
Namersays
He’s already been replaced. ID the new guy and take him out also.
Bikinis not Burkassays
How did he have time to organize anything with the carpet rash on his forehead from grovelling to the stone statue?
Bikinis not Burkassays
Will he get his virgins now that he has been vapourised?
Mateensays
I’m troubled by how some long-time commenters on this site are treating other long-time commenters in this thread. Specifically, Somehistory, Infidel and even Gravenimage have piled on with negative comments about posts from Mortimer. As far as I can tell, what Mortimer actually said in his comments appears very reasonable. His point seems to be that though Zawahiri’s actions, beliefs and impact upon the world are reprehensible, he is nonetheless a human being and thus not to be dehumanized.
Somehistory argues that “love the sinner, hate the sin” is balderdash, as it is not found in the Bible, and Christians are called to follow the teachings of Jesus, who was not averse to calling the prideful Jewish leaders, a brood of vipers, whitewahed tombs, etc. Yet this seems short-sighted to me, because the gospel message is precisely that God hates sin but loves the sinner, and that through the atonement of His Son He found a way to show mercy to sinners. As the apostle Paul said in Romans 5, “While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” And if you are looking for a command from Jesus, look no further than the end of Matthew 5, where Jesus commands his followers to “Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you that you may be children of your Father in heaven.” The goal for Christians is to love others as God loves them. There is no question that Zawahiri was an enemy of ours, including the whole non-Muslim world, so how are we to carry out the command to love him, as Jesus directs us? One way is by according him the dignity he possessed as one created by God in His image and likeness, even though Zawahiri distorted that image and lived as a rebel against the true God. No Christian would laud Zawahiri as a good man; certainly he was deceived, and pursued what is evil in God’s sight — so we condemn the sin but love the sinner, and leave judgment in God’s hands.
In no way does that mean we cannot or should not criticize the barbarism, inhumanity and falsehood which is woven into the warp and woof of jihadism. But it does mean that we seek to remember that all of us, even the worst (“there but for the grace of God go I”) are nonetheless image-bearers of God as human beings, and we are to seek to honor that image in all those around us, even when deeply marred and difficult to discover.
At least that’s my take, and I believe that’s what Mortimer was saying (though I don’t want to put words in his mouth).
In the end, most every commenter on this site (minus the trolls) is on the same side. I would hate to see things devolve into a circular firing squad among those committed to the fight against jihadism and the scourge of Islam.
somehistorysays
well, you are wrong. mortimer has called me a bigot and stupid for years.
he doesn’t like it that I say terrorists, rapists, etc are “snakes” or “slugs,” or other descriptive words. Well, that’s just too blanky bad.
I have as much right to the freedom of speech, expressing my thoughts as do you and moritmer. If I choose to call mozlums who terrorize and murder and rape and lie any and all names that Jesus Christ used, and you and mortimer don’t like it, you can just not read it.
The Bible that you and mortimer like to use to support yourselves names the evil people snakes, offspring of vipers, and scummy dross, as well as ‘children of satan the devil.” But you two ignore that and try to make the Bible say things it does not say.
Read the Proverb that says, “There are six things that Jehovah does hate and seven are the things detestable to His Soul”….It names those things: lying tongue, feet hurrying to do evil things, heart fabricating up what is hurtful. hands shedding innocent blood, a witness giving false testimony, haughty eyes and one who stirs up contention among brothers.
All of these…all….fit the mozlums that I described above…the rapists, the liars, the murderers, the terrorists.
I can hate those things too because the Bible also says, “Oh you lovers of Jehovah, hate what is bad.”
Jesus said to ‘love’ your enemies in the same way that God loves….and He gives rain and good to all….His enemies and His friends.
I’ve not hurt a single soul and don’t intend to. But, I can hate them as God hates them…for their lying tongue, for their hands shedding innocent blood, their hearts scheming up hurtful things, their feet hurrying to do bad things, their giving false witness, their haughty eyes and their always stirring up trouble.
Man was created in the Image and likeness of God, but these mozlums are not reflecting that image. they are scummy dross and have given up what was given to them as humans. they have chosen the path of Cain, the path laid out by satan.
If you and your friend want to make claims to Christianity, you should do more study and put off your feelings of affection for such as mozlums are. they are fond of murdering Christians and raping Christian girls.
If moritmer doesn’t like that, and if you don’t like that, I don’t care. I’m not here to please either him or you. and I have as much right to say it as you have to deny it.
and I’ll keep saying it, and if mortimer keeps calling me names, I’ll not just take it.
somehistorysays
And I didn’t use the word “balderdash.” that’s you. I said the Bible does not say that.
somehistorysays
You might go to the account about Queen Jezebel. she was queen, married to a Jew, and she worshipped ba’ al. She killed many of God’s people. She wanted to kill even more.
Jezebel was a *human* a woman and she was bad. So what happened to this *human* who worshipped satan and murdered God’s servants?
King Jehu had her thrown from a window and she splattered on the ground and dogs ate her up…all except the soles of her feet and the palms of her hands.
Was she given “dignity” because she was *human*? No, she was not. she was not mourned or buried…but eaten by dogs.
this mozlum terrorist who worshipped satan and murdered people, doesn’t deserve anything better than that given to Jezebel.
SKAsays
And when facing her eminent death Jezebel “painted her eyelids” vain to the very end.
somehistorysays
Yes, she did. She thought she could seduce Jehu, but he was not persuaded.
gravenimagesays
Mateen, I take your point.
There is actually quite a history here, I’m afraid. I admire Mortimer’s scholarship on Islamic texts and history, and often say so. But he regularly excoriates other posters here for daring to condemn Jihadists for acts of Jihad terror, saying that Muslims are just good people who have the wrong information–he has gone so far as to characterize people who condemn those who commit these acts as not just bigots–as here–but also saying that their actions were “condemned at Nuremberg”, implying that peaceful but critical Anti-Jihadists are actually fascists.
He particularly goes after Somehistory, and sometimes Infidel.
The odd thing is that he is also very inconsistent, in that he *himself* has often rightly condemned Jihadists for their savagery.
For myself, I didn’t personally spend a lot of time hating Zawahiri–but I am also not going to spend any time condoning his horrifying actions, nor am I going to go after anyone who *does* hate Zawahiri, because this is pretty morally rational.
For myself, I am willing to reconsider a sinner if they honestly repent of their sins–and there have indeed been Jihadists who have done this. And yes–*everyone* is flawed, and even the best of us (which I well realize many not include myself) have hurt others, if only unintentionally, and I think we should be mindful of that when dealing with others. But spending a lot of time defending deliberately evil people for the evil they do is not something I consider moral. Zawahiri was not just some inconsiderate person who, say, unthinkingly cut people off in traffic.
And I think that we have the right to defend against evil–including taking out murderous thugs like Zawahiri. I wish this were not necessary, but I think that it is a greater evil *not* to defend against evil where it is possible, considering how the innocent suffer at their hands.
Mateen, I agree that most of us here are indeed on the same side, whatever our disagreements. I feel I have said this here many times.
For instance, I have several very respectful exchanges with Mortimer on this thread:
But I also believe that it is acceptable to be open when we have disagreements with each other, and that this can be done respectfully. After all, we are all trying to determine the best way to face the Jihad threat.
And good to see you posting here again.
somehistorysays
mateen, up above, used this partial quote, in order to say I’m no better than this dead terrorist:
“But it does mean that we seek to remember that all of us, even the worst (“there but for the grace of God go I”)”
You misuse this quote attributed to John Bradford. He was in prison, and saw another prisoner about to be executed. He was not saying, as you used it, that he could have been an evil person, like the prisoner who was being led away to die.
I admonish you and your friend who attacks me daily, to study the Bible and quit attempting to use it in an unscriptural way to persuade me to stop speaking the Truth. I suggest you learn more about what Jeus meant when He said “stop judging” because you don’t have a correct understanding of that, either.
Mateensays
somehistory,
You are taking personally what I intended as a general statement of the human condition. My statement was not a reference to John Bradford, with whom I am not familiar, but rather to the general truth highlighted in the NT that apart from God’s grace we are all inveterate sinners capable of the worst of sins. In Ephesians 2 Paul makes the point that we all are by nature children of wrath, dead in our sins and trespasses. It is only God’s grace that can give us life and set us free from slavery to sin.
You seem to think that because I don’t agree with your perspective I must not have a good grasp of the Bible. That may be, but it is not for lack of trying. In 1996 I received a Ph.D, in New Testament Studies from the University of Durham, England, and have been involved in teaching and preaching the Bible since 1982. I am always open to correction and to learning more, but condescension is never an effective teaching device.
I do still wonder how you would answer Jesus were he to ask you how you demonstrated love to those you consider enemies. After all, he uses the Father as the exemplar — the God who love sinners and extends grace even to those who hate him. Jesus tells us that we must be perfect, even as the Father is perfect (Mt. 5). I don’t pretend to know all that means, but certainly it means that we are to show kindness to those who are unlike us. You may think you have the perfect right to call them names, because Jesus uses harsh terms toward a particular group of sinners — those filled with hubris who think they know whom God favors and whom He doesn;t — but Jesus sees into human hearts in a way that other human beings can’t, at least I can;t. Perhaps you can.
And Jesus’ words in Mt. 7 warn us not to judge (in the sense of condemning) others. We are to discern between good and evil so as not to cast our pearls before swine, but we are not to sit in ultimate judgment over any other human beings because that is God’s role alone.
Please don’t treat me as an adversary. I was trying to offer some light in order to defuse a situation that seemed to me needlessly combative. If I have failed at that, so be it. My intentions were to honor Christ and to seek to be a peacemaker.
You of course have every right to say whatever you wish. I was not trying to muzzle you, nor am I now.
somehistorysays
You don’t seem to have a grasp of the situation you were “trying to diffuse.”
Your friend, and fellow apologist for mozlums being “human” and therefore beyond being called what they are, has been attacking me since I stated…years ago….that mozlums who are terrorists …and others even, who have not committed actual terror attacks…are psychopaths. He slammed me as not knowing, being stupid, and other such. He kept telling me I was wrong. and then Dr. Glazov wrote a book which agreed with me, but mortimer still calls me names, insults, me, claims I’m unChristian, a bigot, etc.
I have been studying the Bible for a lot longer and I know that those who quote people not even associated with the Scriptures in order to prove their knowledge of God and His Son, and who misapply Bible principles, shouldn’t be lecturing others on the Bible and Christian principles.
The quote you used to say we are “all sinners quote from your comment: “apart from God’s grace we are all inveterate sinners ”
we are sinners even with God’s forgiveness. we have to ask for forgiveness everyday for the things we might not even know we did that was a falling short….the meaning of sin…of God’s commands.
Jesus said, “do not judge without mercy.” He said, “rotten trees produce rotten fruit” and to pay attention so we know **who** is a rotten tree because we “recognize their fruit.”
we are making judgments about their fruit and whether it is rotten.
we don’t have the authority to say who God will forgive and grant life or who He will Judge as deserving only of destruction.
I can see the rotten fruit of mozlums just as Jesus instructed and I can call them snakes, slugs, or “scummy dross” without being afraid of overstepping the line. I’m not saying that God will not see fit to give them a resurrection to life, but based on their rotten fruit, if He does, it will be “as through fire.”
Now, if moritmer doesn’t come along and attack me, then I won’t comment to him attacking me.
And the same to you. And one final thought, I don’t have to tell you what I believe Jesus’ answer to me will be. That is between Him and me; I have no obligation to even clue you in as to what I think it might be. I don’t even know you, only having read what you wrote once before today.
You should be more concerned about your answers.
“Each one is tried by his own desire and when that desire becomes fertile, it gives birth to sin.” “Each one must carry his own load.”
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SKA says
Aloha Snackbar!
mortimer says
These terrorists plan to have the last laugh, my friend.
somehistory says
How many times was obl dead before he was? this replacement for the dead terrorist, should have kicked the bucket long ago. Just look at those eyes! Looks kind of like he’s “meeting his Maker” and it’s just as the Bible says it will be for those evil devil followers.
mortimer says
Dr. Zawahiri M.D. was a disciple of ideologue Sayyid Qutb. He created his own terrorist organization and joined others. In spite of graduating in a profession that saves lives and heals, he became a plotter who sought to murder and maim anyone who disagreed with him.
Zawahiri participated in a number of US embassy attacks and in planning 9/11.
As I predicted, it would not take long for major Islamic terror groups to re-establish themselves in Afghastlistan and begin again their program of exporting terror.
The Taliban, ISIS and Al Qaida are not so much rivals as they are allies in the Islamic terror industry.
Now, Al Qaida will need to plot its revenge as required by the Koran and Islamic law.
Infidel says
Mortimer
Aren’t you gonna condemn this killing, given that Zawahiri was a human being in the eyes of God, and that he had the wrong information? Whatever happened to due process? Shouldn’t Blinken have asked the Taliban to extradite him here?
somehistory says
thanks, Infidel, for the laugh. If they called him a slug, scum, a snake……
mortimer says
Infidel, we condemn the sin and love the sinner. Mahatma Gandhi said, ‘Hate the sin and love the sinner’, according to his biography. Ayman al-Zawahiri was an international criminal who commited deadly crimes against the United States and other countries. He was wanted by police worldwide.
To fight such people militarily and in police action is a duty of those in uniform. To punish them is the duty of the legal system. To pass laws that prohibit their evil deeds is the duty of politicians.
The definition of bigotry is obstinate or intolerant devotion to one’s own opinions and prejudices : the state of mind of a bigot.
We should not dehumanize the ‘other’. That would be bigotry. Are you a bigot?
Infidel says
By your definition, yeah, I am a bigot!
Sins don’t exist in vacuums: they exist b’cos sinners commit them. So the idea of loving them while hating what they did is an exercise in denial usually granted to family members of the sinners in question. Outside that circle, one needs to recognize the sinner and the sin as a part of the same package, and treat them as a single entity
Mohandas (I refuse to use the honorific “Mahatma” which means “great soul”, since he was a vile soul) Gandhi was a putrid character and probably the founder of muslim appeasement anywhere in the world. Before his time, muslims in India were regarded as what they were: barbarians: it was he who normalized them and empowered them to the point that they felt bold enough to demand Pakistan, as well as excessive rights within India itself. And the sad thing is that everybody from his home state Gujarat – including Prime Minister Modi and Home Minister Amit Shah – lionize him. Which is why India has such an active jihadist community
Gandhi also slept nude w/ his granddaughter and his niece-in-law (to test his ‘self-control’), and a lot of his associates were scandalized by his activities. Oh, and he also advised Jews who came to him to surrender themselves to Hitler and challenge him to slaughter them. Oh, and another thing – during his time in South Africa, he was an unapologetic racist, who used the term “kuffar” to refer to South African Blacks – the same term used by local muslims to describe them
Anybody who considers Gandhi a hero after knowing all this would be a moral retard (and as the parent of a kid on the spectrum, I don’t use that term lightly). Are you a moral retard?
somehistory says
bigotry: “obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction, in particular prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group:’
“Unreasonable”….much like the “phobia” preached by mozlums. Aha!
In the case of mozlums, it’s due to their “actions”….not their “membership” ; it’s due to their words, and their perverse practices.
btw, mort i mer…..
You keep writing that ‘thousands’ are leaving islam because they find out it’s all man-made….Even if “thousands” are leaving, they should be leaving due to the evil, perverse, demonic commands and the filth of the writings.
You keep saying that **many*** don’t “practice” but are mino’s and don’t follow the commands except that they have to.
Now, you haven’t said it in so many words, but you must secretly acknowledge that there are millions who approve of the rape, the slaughter, the terror and pass out candy and celebrate, and help train the next generation of terrorists. You just daily paste their commands here as if everyone must acknowledge that they are legit and we shouldn’t criticize mozlums for following them.
Then, there are the rapists, the murderers, the terrorists, the abusers of children, the ‘doctors” who mutilate little kids, and rape babies and lie about it.
If the terrorists, rapists, murderers, liars, the trainers, the celebrators, etc. all have “wrong information” (hint: there is no such thing as “wrong information” because “information” is by necessity, True)…why do you even bother telling us over and over how “human” they are and at the same time, saying they are “wrong”?
You are putting them in with the same group you *laud* for “leaving” because they find out it’s all man-made stuff.
And, you sometimes quote Bible verses which you post to bolster your comments, but i see here you are relying on m ghandi for your “love the sinner,…”
The Bible does not say “love the sinner and hate the sin” or “hate the sin and love the sinner.” It does not say that.
Christians do not rely on an imperfect, and nasty, perverse, human for Commands by which to live, nor quoting those who do not know Christ as a *reason* for actions or words to follow.
Christians quote Christ as to how to live and treat others.
and He called such ones who were evil, “snakes” and children of the devil, as well as other things of which **you** don’t approve.
You, if anyone here is a bigot, it’s you.
gravenimage says
Mortimer, your idea that you are a bigot if your dare criticize savage Jihadists like Zawahiri is appalling.
Believing that opposing Jihad terror is “obstinate” is bizarre. On what basis should we *not* condemn this barbarism?
And Gandhi regularly appeased Islam. Not a good thing for India, actually.
Wellington says
We’ll see. If so, good. And, if so, the bogus Biden Administration, which can’t help stumbling into the truth from time to time, like a stopped clock being right twice in a 24-hour period, will use this ad nauseam as a reason to vote for Democrats in the upcoming November elections.
Damn, sometimes life leaves you with a good result which is followed by a myriad of negative results. Besides, in the final analysis, even assuming this report is true, so many in DC—virtually all Democrats and about half of Republicans—will learn nothing about where the true menace lies.
The true menace here of course is Islam. All of it.
Infidel says
I was watching the news on Newsmax, and it turned out that this administration first went through the lawyers to verify that it was legal to kill him in Afghanistan, then they planned it so that other than him, no one else was killed, and then the drone strike happened after they had identified the “patterns of life” of those around him so that only he was killed
Given all the restrictions that they had on this operation, it’s a wonder that it succeeded at all. Part of the reason may have been that this happened in Afghanistan and not Pakistan, where the Pakis would have had the opportunity to warn him before any strike happened, like they did dozens of times w/ both Osama and Zawahiri
mortimer says
The United States must fight its enemies lawfully, because whatever is unlawful will be ineffective and give an opening to the enemy for valid criticism.
If you never served in uniform you are ignorant of the rules of engagement.
Infidel says
The idea that you think that terrorist groups have a valid criticism as to how they are treated shows you as pretty deranged. As the Sherif of Nottingham once said, “one does not hunt a mad dog w/ chivalry”
gravenimage says
Mortimer, the idea that we have to respect the bloody Taliban is potentially disturbing.
gravenimage says
Zawahiri dead?
…………………………
Could be–hope so. Of course, if he is I’m sure Al Qaida will pick some other pious thug to lead them.
somehistory says
the next thug has most likely already been selected. this type of terror gang of which al queda is, would have seconds to obl, and then to zawahiri and the next guy in line.
Some gangs die out if the leader dies. But because al queda is part of the world-wide terror organization, and was basically begun as a child of the mb, there will always be another ‘leader’ thug to take over and make with the bragging threats.
raja says
Somehistory,
The latest is that he is really dead. The silver lining is: Only America is capable of taking out rats from Islamic hellholes.
May Biden have horrid time in White house(with plummeting ratings) that he takes out more rats more often.
somehistory says
Yes, raja, he didn’t look too healthy and it’s been a long time coming that he has been responsible for so much death. One reaps as one sows. He met the grim one.
Infidel says
Despite all the pains they took to ensure that only he was killed, it’s a good thing that they struck him. As opposed to capturing him and then wondering whether to put him in Gitmo, or in the Colorado Supermax, or somewhere else
As I noted above to Wellington, it’s a wonder they got him given all the pains they took to ensure that no innocent al Qaeda operatives or his peaceful family members got hurt
somehistory says
Ah, so no collateral damage. but old al q will likely want to take revenge for this sorry excuse for a human, anyway. His replacement is probably glad to be sitting in the seat of control. Ah, the good life. Killing, eating, hiding, killing, making videos, killing, ordering killing, and not to forget, not last or least, raping little girls and boys.
Infidel says
Precisely, which is why going out of their way to prevent collateral damage was an exercise in futility
gravenimage says
Pretty much sums it up, Somehistory.
rbla says
They were probably tracking him for a long time but didn’t want to take him out too close to the Afghanistan withdrawal since it would have undermined Biden’s claim that al Qaeda was not present in that country. But at this time with Biden’s approval tanking and the Dems in real danger our “protectors” in the intelligence agencies figured that now was the time. I apologize for my cynicism.
Infidel says
Fun fact: Zawahiri is one of the first major al Qaeda leaders to be killed/captured in Afghanistan – the country we attacked after 9/11. The other major al Qaeda leaders who were hunted were hunted in Pakistan, be it Osama, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Abu Zubaida, Ramzi bin al Shib, et al
On Newsmax, James Rosen noted that we are approaching the anniversary of the chaotic withdrawal from Afghanistan, and in that context, this hit will be trumpeted as proof of how the their ‘over the horizon’ visibility works and how they don’t need ‘boots on the ground’. I have a suspicion that the Taliban did co-operate w/ the US in detecting where he was – in Kabul, no less. In the coming days, it might be interesting to find out where he was hiding all these years
Shema says
Who cares!!!
Exactly….
Uma says
‘Justice has been delivered’: Al-Qaida leader al-Zawahri killed in US drone strike, Biden says’ .
Hope it is true
Namer says
He’s already been replaced. ID the new guy and take him out also.
Bikinis not Burkas says
How did he have time to organize anything with the carpet rash on his forehead from grovelling to the stone statue?
Bikinis not Burkas says
Will he get his virgins now that he has been vapourised?
Mateen says
I’m troubled by how some long-time commenters on this site are treating other long-time commenters in this thread. Specifically, Somehistory, Infidel and even Gravenimage have piled on with negative comments about posts from Mortimer. As far as I can tell, what Mortimer actually said in his comments appears very reasonable. His point seems to be that though Zawahiri’s actions, beliefs and impact upon the world are reprehensible, he is nonetheless a human being and thus not to be dehumanized.
Somehistory argues that “love the sinner, hate the sin” is balderdash, as it is not found in the Bible, and Christians are called to follow the teachings of Jesus, who was not averse to calling the prideful Jewish leaders, a brood of vipers, whitewahed tombs, etc. Yet this seems short-sighted to me, because the gospel message is precisely that God hates sin but loves the sinner, and that through the atonement of His Son He found a way to show mercy to sinners. As the apostle Paul said in Romans 5, “While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” And if you are looking for a command from Jesus, look no further than the end of Matthew 5, where Jesus commands his followers to “Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you that you may be children of your Father in heaven.” The goal for Christians is to love others as God loves them. There is no question that Zawahiri was an enemy of ours, including the whole non-Muslim world, so how are we to carry out the command to love him, as Jesus directs us? One way is by according him the dignity he possessed as one created by God in His image and likeness, even though Zawahiri distorted that image and lived as a rebel against the true God. No Christian would laud Zawahiri as a good man; certainly he was deceived, and pursued what is evil in God’s sight — so we condemn the sin but love the sinner, and leave judgment in God’s hands.
In no way does that mean we cannot or should not criticize the barbarism, inhumanity and falsehood which is woven into the warp and woof of jihadism. But it does mean that we seek to remember that all of us, even the worst (“there but for the grace of God go I”) are nonetheless image-bearers of God as human beings, and we are to seek to honor that image in all those around us, even when deeply marred and difficult to discover.
At least that’s my take, and I believe that’s what Mortimer was saying (though I don’t want to put words in his mouth).
In the end, most every commenter on this site (minus the trolls) is on the same side. I would hate to see things devolve into a circular firing squad among those committed to the fight against jihadism and the scourge of Islam.
somehistory says
well, you are wrong. mortimer has called me a bigot and stupid for years.
he doesn’t like it that I say terrorists, rapists, etc are “snakes” or “slugs,” or other descriptive words. Well, that’s just too blanky bad.
I have as much right to the freedom of speech, expressing my thoughts as do you and moritmer. If I choose to call mozlums who terrorize and murder and rape and lie any and all names that Jesus Christ used, and you and mortimer don’t like it, you can just not read it.
The Bible that you and mortimer like to use to support yourselves names the evil people snakes, offspring of vipers, and scummy dross, as well as ‘children of satan the devil.” But you two ignore that and try to make the Bible say things it does not say.
Read the Proverb that says, “There are six things that Jehovah does hate and seven are the things detestable to His Soul”….It names those things: lying tongue, feet hurrying to do evil things, heart fabricating up what is hurtful. hands shedding innocent blood, a witness giving false testimony, haughty eyes and one who stirs up contention among brothers.
All of these…all….fit the mozlums that I described above…the rapists, the liars, the murderers, the terrorists.
I can hate those things too because the Bible also says, “Oh you lovers of Jehovah, hate what is bad.”
Jesus said to ‘love’ your enemies in the same way that God loves….and He gives rain and good to all….His enemies and His friends.
I’ve not hurt a single soul and don’t intend to. But, I can hate them as God hates them…for their lying tongue, for their hands shedding innocent blood, their hearts scheming up hurtful things, their feet hurrying to do bad things, their giving false witness, their haughty eyes and their always stirring up trouble.
Man was created in the Image and likeness of God, but these mozlums are not reflecting that image. they are scummy dross and have given up what was given to them as humans. they have chosen the path of Cain, the path laid out by satan.
If you and your friend want to make claims to Christianity, you should do more study and put off your feelings of affection for such as mozlums are. they are fond of murdering Christians and raping Christian girls.
If moritmer doesn’t like that, and if you don’t like that, I don’t care. I’m not here to please either him or you. and I have as much right to say it as you have to deny it.
and I’ll keep saying it, and if mortimer keeps calling me names, I’ll not just take it.
somehistory says
And I didn’t use the word “balderdash.” that’s you. I said the Bible does not say that.
somehistory says
You might go to the account about Queen Jezebel. she was queen, married to a Jew, and she worshipped ba’ al. She killed many of God’s people. She wanted to kill even more.
Jezebel was a *human* a woman and she was bad. So what happened to this *human* who worshipped satan and murdered God’s servants?
King Jehu had her thrown from a window and she splattered on the ground and dogs ate her up…all except the soles of her feet and the palms of her hands.
Was she given “dignity” because she was *human*? No, she was not. she was not mourned or buried…but eaten by dogs.
this mozlum terrorist who worshipped satan and murdered people, doesn’t deserve anything better than that given to Jezebel.
SKA says
And when facing her eminent death Jezebel “painted her eyelids” vain to the very end.
somehistory says
Yes, she did. She thought she could seduce Jehu, but he was not persuaded.
gravenimage says
Mateen, I take your point.
There is actually quite a history here, I’m afraid. I admire Mortimer’s scholarship on Islamic texts and history, and often say so. But he regularly excoriates other posters here for daring to condemn Jihadists for acts of Jihad terror, saying that Muslims are just good people who have the wrong information–he has gone so far as to characterize people who condemn those who commit these acts as not just bigots–as here–but also saying that their actions were “condemned at Nuremberg”, implying that peaceful but critical Anti-Jihadists are actually fascists.
He particularly goes after Somehistory, and sometimes Infidel.
The odd thing is that he is also very inconsistent, in that he *himself* has often rightly condemned Jihadists for their savagery.
For myself, I didn’t personally spend a lot of time hating Zawahiri–but I am also not going to spend any time condoning his horrifying actions, nor am I going to go after anyone who *does* hate Zawahiri, because this is pretty morally rational.
For myself, I am willing to reconsider a sinner if they honestly repent of their sins–and there have indeed been Jihadists who have done this. And yes–*everyone* is flawed, and even the best of us (which I well realize many not include myself) have hurt others, if only unintentionally, and I think we should be mindful of that when dealing with others. But spending a lot of time defending deliberately evil people for the evil they do is not something I consider moral. Zawahiri was not just some inconsiderate person who, say, unthinkingly cut people off in traffic.
And I think that we have the right to defend against evil–including taking out murderous thugs like Zawahiri. I wish this were not necessary, but I think that it is a greater evil *not* to defend against evil where it is possible, considering how the innocent suffer at their hands.
Mateen, I agree that most of us here are indeed on the same side, whatever our disagreements. I feel I have said this here many times.
For instance, I have several very respectful exchanges with Mortimer on this thread:
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2022/08/russian-mufti-western-nations-are-minions-of-the-antichrist-muhammad-ordered-the-killing-of-homosexuals
Others on these threads:
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2022/08/al-zawahiri-death-shows-al-qaeda-is-back-in-kabul-and-taliban-deal-was-worthless#comments
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2022/08/nigeria-muslims-storm-community-kill-eight-people-amputate-hand-of-five-month-old-baby
I’m sure i could find many more examples.
But I also believe that it is acceptable to be open when we have disagreements with each other, and that this can be done respectfully. After all, we are all trying to determine the best way to face the Jihad threat.
And good to see you posting here again.
somehistory says
mateen, up above, used this partial quote, in order to say I’m no better than this dead terrorist:
“But it does mean that we seek to remember that all of us, even the worst (“there but for the grace of God go I”)”
You misuse this quote attributed to John Bradford. He was in prison, and saw another prisoner about to be executed. He was not saying, as you used it, that he could have been an evil person, like the prisoner who was being led away to die.
I admonish you and your friend who attacks me daily, to study the Bible and quit attempting to use it in an unscriptural way to persuade me to stop speaking the Truth. I suggest you learn more about what Jeus meant when He said “stop judging” because you don’t have a correct understanding of that, either.
Mateen says
somehistory,
You are taking personally what I intended as a general statement of the human condition. My statement was not a reference to John Bradford, with whom I am not familiar, but rather to the general truth highlighted in the NT that apart from God’s grace we are all inveterate sinners capable of the worst of sins. In Ephesians 2 Paul makes the point that we all are by nature children of wrath, dead in our sins and trespasses. It is only God’s grace that can give us life and set us free from slavery to sin.
You seem to think that because I don’t agree with your perspective I must not have a good grasp of the Bible. That may be, but it is not for lack of trying. In 1996 I received a Ph.D, in New Testament Studies from the University of Durham, England, and have been involved in teaching and preaching the Bible since 1982. I am always open to correction and to learning more, but condescension is never an effective teaching device.
I do still wonder how you would answer Jesus were he to ask you how you demonstrated love to those you consider enemies. After all, he uses the Father as the exemplar — the God who love sinners and extends grace even to those who hate him. Jesus tells us that we must be perfect, even as the Father is perfect (Mt. 5). I don’t pretend to know all that means, but certainly it means that we are to show kindness to those who are unlike us. You may think you have the perfect right to call them names, because Jesus uses harsh terms toward a particular group of sinners — those filled with hubris who think they know whom God favors and whom He doesn;t — but Jesus sees into human hearts in a way that other human beings can’t, at least I can;t. Perhaps you can.
And Jesus’ words in Mt. 7 warn us not to judge (in the sense of condemning) others. We are to discern between good and evil so as not to cast our pearls before swine, but we are not to sit in ultimate judgment over any other human beings because that is God’s role alone.
Please don’t treat me as an adversary. I was trying to offer some light in order to defuse a situation that seemed to me needlessly combative. If I have failed at that, so be it. My intentions were to honor Christ and to seek to be a peacemaker.
You of course have every right to say whatever you wish. I was not trying to muzzle you, nor am I now.
somehistory says
You don’t seem to have a grasp of the situation you were “trying to diffuse.”
Your friend, and fellow apologist for mozlums being “human” and therefore beyond being called what they are, has been attacking me since I stated…years ago….that mozlums who are terrorists …and others even, who have not committed actual terror attacks…are psychopaths. He slammed me as not knowing, being stupid, and other such. He kept telling me I was wrong. and then Dr. Glazov wrote a book which agreed with me, but mortimer still calls me names, insults, me, claims I’m unChristian, a bigot, etc.
I have been studying the Bible for a lot longer and I know that those who quote people not even associated with the Scriptures in order to prove their knowledge of God and His Son, and who misapply Bible principles, shouldn’t be lecturing others on the Bible and Christian principles.
The quote you used to say we are “all sinners quote from your comment: “apart from God’s grace we are all inveterate sinners ”
we are sinners even with God’s forgiveness. we have to ask for forgiveness everyday for the things we might not even know we did that was a falling short….the meaning of sin…of God’s commands.
Jesus said, “do not judge without mercy.” He said, “rotten trees produce rotten fruit” and to pay attention so we know **who** is a rotten tree because we “recognize their fruit.”
we are making judgments about their fruit and whether it is rotten.
we don’t have the authority to say who God will forgive and grant life or who He will Judge as deserving only of destruction.
I can see the rotten fruit of mozlums just as Jesus instructed and I can call them snakes, slugs, or “scummy dross” without being afraid of overstepping the line. I’m not saying that God will not see fit to give them a resurrection to life, but based on their rotten fruit, if He does, it will be “as through fire.”
Now, if moritmer doesn’t come along and attack me, then I won’t comment to him attacking me.
And the same to you. And one final thought, I don’t have to tell you what I believe Jesus’ answer to me will be. That is between Him and me; I have no obligation to even clue you in as to what I think it might be. I don’t even know you, only having read what you wrote once before today.
You should be more concerned about your answers.
“Each one is tried by his own desire and when that desire becomes fertile, it gives birth to sin.” “Each one must carry his own load.”