Groundswell of support for Geller and Spencer on EDL

Pamela Geller has an important update on the recent blogwar over the English Defence League:

Apparently an update is required on the blogwar against Atlas that is being waged by vultures with an altogether nefarious agenda. It’s not important, because these bottomfeeders just bang keyboards and jockey for position on the bottom of the food chain. But to be clear …….

I stand by my concern about the increasing antisemitism in the ranks of the admins at the EDL. We have no intention of breaking with the EDL if they purge these antisemitic elements. If they do not, they will be finished as a force for good in England. I was immediately reassured that these rogue elements would be routed out. End of story. This campaign to gang up on Geller by small  “counter-jihadists” trying to make a name for themselves clearly is motivated by something enitrely different. Something very ugly and transparent.

ZionistsNotWelcomeEDL.jpg
There are pages and pages of this kind of stuff. Here is just one example. “Hel Gower” is a powerful EDL administrator. She “liked” this page.

We applaud those who stand against this kind of poison. Brian of London said: “Pamela is one of the stalwarts of the counter Jihad. She’s doing great work over in America and I don’t like the way in which she was personally attacked (along with Robert Spencer) over this.”

Bravo.

Calling attention to a problem is not a crime. We are not the problem. There can be no compromise with antisemitic elements in the EDL or anywhere else. As Ayn Rand said, “In any compromise between food and poison, it is only death that can win. In any compromise between good and evil, it is only evil that can profit.”

I understand that several people have asked that their names be removed from the list of signers of Gates of Vienna’s “Open Letter to Pamela Geller.” They are to be commended for righting a wrong. Get the facts, first. Many of those who have signed have not a cursory knowledge of what actually happened.

Many good people have written in support and defense of me in GoV’s recent attack (their entire front page was attacking me in one giant hot mess). I am not sure who he is working for or why, but it’s not kosher. That’s for shiz.

Here is a partial list of people and groups that support our position. Considering that it is the holiday weekend, this is an extraordinary outpouring of support, and we are grateful.

Here is a partial list of people and groups that support our position. Considering that it is the holiday weekend, this is an extraordinary outpouring of support, and we are grateful.

UPDATE 3:50PM: Within minutes of the initial posting, Pamela heard from DaTechGuy and Mr. Pinko from iOwnTheWorld.com; they are in, also. Welcome, and happy 4th!

UPDATE 5:00PM: VAST, the Virginia Anti-Sharia Task force, stands with us, as well as Andrea Lafferty, President of the Traditional Values Coalition.

UPDATE: John Jay raises a significant point here about the timeline of events.

UPDATE: 6:00PM: Knuckledraggin my life away “has our back.”

UPDATE 6:33PM: The Anti Jihadist at Pedestrian Infidel.

UPDATE 6:42PM: Stephanie, Newstime.co.nz (New Zealand).

UPDATE 6:46PM: Monika Kaufmann joins us from Germany.

UPDATE: It is important to note that while we asked some people we worked with to sign on, the great majority of the above list came on their own volition. The “Baron” at Gates of Vienna writes: “For the record: I sent out no emails soliciting support for our open letter.” For the record, I received this earlier today from a prominent blogger whom I had asked to sign our statement: “People on the other side of this current feud have contacted me as well.” Of course, the “Baron” no doubt had other people contact this person, keeping his statement strictly, albeit Jesuitically, true.

UPDATE 7:04PM: The nonpareil Robert S. McCain stands with us.

UPDATE 7:46PM: Sisu is in.

UPDATE 7:47PM: Marked Manner “totally supports our stance.”

UPDATE: Tommy Robinson contacted Pamela Geller at 5PM today and let her know that Hel Gower is not an EDL admin. He said that Gower deals with media requests and arranges meetings for him. Pamela comments: “Tommy Robinson has been a mensch all through this, in acknowledging that there is a problem that needs to be addressed, instead of denying it and shooting the messenger, like the writers of this ‘Open Letter.'”

UPDATE 8:10PM: Kafir at American Jingoist stands with us.

UPDATE 8:15PM: Razor Sharp Claws stands shoulder to shoulder with us.

UPDATE 8:19PM: Puma by Design is on our side.

UPDATE 9:20PM: American Glob oozes support.

UPDATE 9:39PM: Counter-jihadist Holger Awakens stands with us.

UPDATE 10:25PM: Despite being asked by GoV to sign their “Open Letter” (although the “Baron” claimed he had sent out no emails begging for signatures), Bare Naked Islam asked to join our list of supporters. She told Pamela Geller: “Gates of Vienna asked me to sign his letter and I refused.”

UPDATE 12:04AM: Barry Sommer of Islam Today Oregon stands with us also.

UPDATE 12:15AM: Now joining us and most welcome is Narain Kataria, the President of the Indian American Intellectuals Forum.

UPDATE: 12:51AM: Matt of Conservative Hideout wants to add his blog to the list.

UPDATE 1:34AM: Philip Daniel, a scholar of Islamic history and Qur’anic exegesis, and blogger at The Blogmocracy, writes to Pamela Geller: “After reading over your blogpost, alongside having considered other material from diverse sources — now, following a period of deep introspection on this issue, I’ve made my decision, rendered my verdict. I know I’m going to receive a great deal of flack over this from certain quarters, but add me to your list of supporters.”

UPDATE 7:32 AM: UNCOVERAGE.net “stands with Pamela.”

UPDATE 9:02AM: That’s so Haram shouts out support live from Tokyo (thanks, Zilla).

UPDATE 12:18PM: Pavel Chernev, presidential candidate, Bulgaria stands with us.

UPDATE 2:23PM: Imran Firasat, Mundo in Islam in Spain signs on in support.

UPDATE 2:30PM: TeresAmerica posts on her support here.

UPDATE 3:23PM: “Please add my name to your list of supporters”: Deborah with Act for America, Las Vegas, Nevada.

Happy Easter!
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Comments

  1. says

    Meanwhile, on the streets of Luton, far removed from blogospherical disputes..

    Deliberante Senatu, Saguntum periit

    Kind regs from Amsterdam,
    Sag.

  2. says

    If the EDL wants to portray itself as a cause against the growing threat of Islamic Supremacism in Europe, it must rid itself of all antisemitism in its ranks otherwise I could not support it in good conscience.

  3. says

    OMG this is so wrong!

    This whole internal strife started because roberta moore and the jewish division pushed to ally the EDL with the Jewish Defense League back in 2010, where tommy spoke to an assempbly of JDL in canada.

    This caused quite a stir in the EDL because the Jewish Defense League is an openly jewish supremacist organisation with a history of terrorism.

    And since the EDL cannot and will not condone terrorist attacks or endorse supremacism of any kind, be it white, jewish or muslim supremacism, many were disgruntled with the jewish division back then. And things have gone more and more bitter ever since

    Just go to the Jewish defense league website and see for yourself for crying out loud, this is all public info

    I put a quote below… do you really think the normal EDL members wants to ally themselves with these people?

    Jewish defense league´s supremacist stand on Assimilation & Intermarriage

    “Assimilation & Intermarriage
    Among the Biggest Threats to Jewish Survival

    There is perhaps no greater threat to the well-being of Am Yisrael, the Jewish nation, than assimilation and its all too natural consequence, intermarriage. The Jewish Defense League seeks to combat not only the multifarious physical and spiritual forms of Jew-hatred but also the spiritual malaise of Jewish indifference and ignorance, and the threat of Jewish affection for the non-Jew.

    As if we face too few external threats, an alarming number of Jews willingly flee from Judaism into melting pots, secular “culture” and morality, and often most devastatingly the arms of non-Jewish spouses. The unfortunate reality of the situation is that assimilation and intermarriage have done more to destroy Jewish souls than most every form of persecution and act of genocide we have suffered as a people throughout time immemorial.

    Only through Jewish pride and education will Jews be protected from these insidious, corrupting forces. While we believe with eternal faith that Ha-Shem’s chosen people will ultimately be saved from all perils and dwell securely in our land, until those prophecies are fulfilled we exist in a troubled world, and we must therefore guard ourselves against these veiled dangers. The future of our children, and our children’s children, depend on whether we choose the Torah and life (since the Torah is called by G-d the Tree of Life for the Jew), or assimilation, intermarriage and death.

    This section of our new site will be expanded in the coming weeks beyond this initial content.”

    http://www.jdl.org/index.php/threats-adversaries/assimilation-intermarriage/

  4. says

    What’s up with GOV? Did Charles Johnson take over?

    I’m not keeping up very well, and didn’t know this was going on…

    It doesn’t mean much but you can put my name on that list, and refer these nasties to me…I have had zillions of internet hours dealing with nasties…

  5. says

    I recommend to my Jewish Brothers to hesitate before screaming anti-semetic at a drop of a hat. The charge of Rascist has almost been rendered worthless to anyone with a spine since it has been overly used to descredit ANYONE who disagrees with President Obama. Let me add that I am a Hermain Cain supporter.

    There is no stonger defender of Israel than I, but I have been called Anti-Semetic numerous times because I have been campaigning against Soros for years and da BANKSTERS since the first TARP. And I don’t even mention the J word. LOL!

  6. says

    And this type of infighting is but one example why we might lose the war. Contrary to popular opinion the “good” guys don’t always win.

    I stand with Israel, always and I support Robert & pamela. Now let’s get on with with task at hand.

  7. says

    I met several EDL members during last years 9/11 anti-mosque protest in NYC. They were great guys and didn’t know me from Adam. They didn’t know if I was jew or gentile. They treated me with respect, as I did likewise.
    With our government leaders and main stream media openly siding against us (the anti-jihad) it seems we may be on our own. And that’s something none of us can ignore.
    We have to stand with each other now more them ever.

  8. says

    I am proud to stand with the righteous. I am pleased to see so many others join in support for Pamela and Robert.

  9. says

    This is a sad event to witness. More strife to bring about a rift in the Counterjihad movement. And with repercussions that could very well spell the end of our biggest weapon and ally, the EDL. I have seen no evidence from here nor from Geller to back up any claims about neo-nazis infiltrating the administration of the EDL. Even the most recent “evidence” that Geller has brought up to show this infiltration has already been shown to be nothing more than a sham. This “powerful admin(inistrator) has turned out to be nothing more than a lowly secretary.

    This is more lowly nonsense that the Counterjihad does NOT need. It was yours and Gellers unnecessary deceleration against the EDL that started this whole mess. Do not forget that. The EDL have tried time and time again to prove against its biggest detractors that neo-nazi and fascist elements are NOT welcome among its ranks. And now Tommy is having to try and prove it to what I’m sure he believed were his biggest supporters. Tommy’s statement should have been enough to beckon an apology from Geller and to toss this whole crock overboard. But it seems this is going to be drug through the dirt.

    I’m sure I’ll still be a constant lurker here, as well as at GOV and across many other sites. But I am really disappointed in all this. This is a moment that I’m sure the Islamists that we stand against are waiting for. The Star of David will continue to be shown at EDL demos, but seems many will simply turn their head from it and act as if it were not there. I hope calmer winds do soon blow.

    Long live the Counterjihad. Long live the EDL!

  10. says

    Had no further information been presented GOV would absolutley have been justified in presenting that open letter, whatever their varied motivations. I believe the motivation for most of the signatories to sign was based upon the lack of sufficiant justification presented in the initial denouncement.

    HOWEVER, more specific information was presented shortly and the comments made on the Atlas Shrugged pages about this made it very clear to outsiders that There Is Something Rotten In The State of Luton.

    Readers of JW are very aware that it’s impossible to prevent trolls from posting and they are not automatically barred for a variety of reasons. Furthermore, diversity of thought is essential to the socratic process.

    It appears now that this was not quite what was happening on the EDL message boards. It appears now that the admins of those boards were acting in collusion with some posters in order to advance an agenda to divorce the EDL from the support of Israel or to intentionally sow conflict between members in order to neutralize the group.

    Disbanding the ethnic divisions of the EDL can have positive or negative results. Disbanding them can feed into the machinations of racists who wish to have more centralized power over other points of view in the organization. Conversly, and maddeningly, keeping them seperate can feed into the machinations of people who want to prevent unity and cooperation in the EDL. It comes down to carefully assessing the motivations of who wants which based upon their current and past actions.

    It also means that because the very nature of this organizational issue is a weakness, members and outsiders should openly promise to support the EDL whichever rout they choose-this would work against those who want to exploit the inherrant weakness of their organizational model.

    I will continue to publicly support the EDL whichever organizational decision it takes. But I won’t support them if they allow the anti Israel elements remain.

  11. says

    Israel is a nation with many gifts. It’s love of life (much to the disgust of Nasrallah, Yassan and all their other wretched ilk), it’s solidarity, it’s determination. And hopefully the continued support by many of us in the West.

  12. says

    There was a kerfuffle over Ms. Moore’s attempts to officially associate with a group the EDL leadership had reason to not wish to be associated with.

    However upon reflection, the fact that the Jewish division and Ms. Moore have remained indicates that that conflict has been long resolved and this new crisis is not directly related.

    I have just this minute had a relization and googling for specific accusations shows I was right:

    Some accusers are saying it was the JDF Jewish defence force Ms Moore was trying to connect with and some are saying it was the JDL jewish defense league and making the exact same accusations about these groups of extremeism and violence. That makes the motivations behind the accusations against Ms Moore relating to this highly suspicious to me.

  13. says

    A group *like* the EDL, that demonstrates on the streets against Islamic extremism, is needed in every country with any kind of Islamic minority.

    But, I entirely support the line Pamela Geller is taking on the EDL. Given its roots in football hooliganism, the group needs some serious whipping into shape to remove any of the racist and fascist elements that may be attracted to it, or which seek to turn it to the will of the BNP rather than the democratic centre.

    A solution may to start new groups. The EDL doesn’t have a monopoly on demonstrations and marches against Islamic extremism. Perhaps a group without links to anti-social hooliganism is what England needs at present.

  14. says

    To JW and readers. I clicked on Logans Warning to check out the site and at the top is an article that should be addressed by Atlas Shrugged or JW. It is about 2 NFL players who are speaking at the ISNA convention and the MSA at that convention.

    I strongly believe a boycott is called for.

  15. says

    where did this group “Zionists not welcome in edl”? come from, i can’t see it in the cache, and i also know Hel Gower would be unlikely to click like whether she wanted to or not, i suggest this is a fake image, could someone provide a date when this was snagged or the source.

  16. says

    Serge Trifkovic’s The Sword of the Prophet is one book that anyone who wants to understand Islam should read. But do Jihad Watchers know what Trifkovic thinks about anti-Semitism and the Jewish Question ?

    From the article “Is the Alt Right Anti-Semitic?“. Trifkovic wrote:

    To claim that the traditional Right is “anti-Jewish” is to imply that it is gripped by an irrational prejudice. Such accusation is untrue and unfair. […]

Historically, Talmudic Judaism’s insistence on the Jews’ racial uniqueness ” emphasized by the ritual and dietary laws of Talmudic Judaism and on its view of Christians as idolaters ” has ensured that a Jew steeped in his own tradition could not view traditional European or American conservatism with sympathy. His tradition was a form of elaborate survival mechanism based on the zero-sum view of a world divided into “us” and “them.” The Gentile was “the Other” ab initio and for ever.

    In addition, since the late 1800’s the Jews have had a disproportionate impact on a host of intellectual trends and political movements which have fundamentally altered the civilization of Europe and its overseas offspring in a manner deeply detrimental to the family, nation, culture, racial solidarity, social coherence, tradition, morality and faith. Spontaneously or deliberately, those ideas and movements ” Marxism (including neoconservatism as the bastard child of Trotskyism), Freudianism, Frankfurt School cultural criticism, Boasian anthropology, etc. ” have eroded “the West” to the point where its demographic and cultural survival is uncertain. The erosion is continuing, allegedly in the name of propositional principles and universal values, and it is pursued with escalating ferocity.

    Only one group and one nation-state remain exempt from the dictates of pluralism and diversity, and from the condemnation (heading towards criminalization) of any form of group solidarity based on blood, culture and faith.

    But this thread is no place to discuss the Jewish Question and I won’t comment any further on it in this thread. Those who want to discuss it may go to the site where Trifkovic published the above-quoted article or to my own site.

  17. says

    UPDATE 6:46PM: Monika Kaufmann joins us from Germany.

    Yeah, so? Kaufmann is a long-time contributor to Germany’s biggest anti-Islam website “Politically Incorrect”, which also happens to be a hotbed of pro-Nazi agitation. (Just so there is no uncertainty: Nazi, as in Hitlerite, old-school, Holocaust-denying/belittling German national socialism.)

    Only a couple of days ago, “PI” published an article about a functionary of the German Nazi Party NPD being kicked out of Bremen’s top-league Werder soccer club. Shedding bitter tears about this “violation of civic rights”, this tearjerker of an article compared the state-organized persecution of the Jews under Hitler with the ouster of the Nazi party functionary from a private club in 2011 — and called it equivalent!

    I kid you not. If Kaufmann is even Jewish, as she claims, she is a very odd Jew — one who doesn’t mind associating with swastika-wearing, goosestepping Jew-haters.

  18. says

    @ Benny Hill (the comedian…?)

    You wrote; ‘Only through Jewish pride and education will Jews be protected from these insidious, corrupting forces..’

    I don’t see anything here about ‘slaying the non-Jew wherever you may find them’, or anything remotely supremacist, like Islam. ‘Pride and education’ seem to be aspects of any culture. Replace the word ‘Jewish’ with any other word that denotes a culture (and Islam is not a culture, it’s a military doctrine dressed up as a religion) and it pretty well sums up the aspirations of most people.

    You’re a clown!

  19. says

    Part of my view on counter jihad is leave the Islamists to tear themselves apart, something they appear to do with as much relish for carnage, death and mayhem as they inflict upon the unbelievers and obviously something to be exploited. However when it happens on our side we fall into the self same trap of divide and conquer.

    GoV is a serious site and many of its pretty lengthy essays offer an erudition and insight especially with regard to Denmark and Scandinavia in general. Why they are now resorting to name calling eludes me. It could be that they are falling for the official line parroted by our establishment media and often the police who seem to hold the EDL to greater responsibility than the UAF. It could be that there are, to paraphrase the US intelligence chief, ‘flickers’ of antisemitism within the organisation and that certain members do use the EDL as a platform for racism.

    However compared to the broader issue of combating the shape shifting jihad whose hydra head is inserting its many and varied forms into western society isn’t this a side issue and open conflict to be avoided?

    I have not the slightest doubt that the jihadi’s who read both blogs and descend into paroxysms of outrage with every word will now be gloating at this perceived schism.

    Lenin and Trotsky spring to mind, or maybe the two factions within the late Thirties British Parliament which fought over pacification or military defence against Hitler. On the latter its easy in hindsight to lambaste the anti war camp yet it must be remembered that the ghastly carnage inflicted in the trenches of the Great War was still a recent memory and an open, raw wound in the British psyche.

    Putting it simply they were doing their damndest to avoid a replication of that horror and the intention now seen as grovelling appeasement was regarded at the time as that of preservation of life, itself the noblest of human aspiration.

    Isn’t hindsight a lovely thing? Away from that dense fog of politics and war, it all becomes clear as real intention is revealed and the chaff of distraction is sidelined to its proper place of ultimate insignificance?

    Far from bleating or cajoling around your stance, I do respect the position you take when slandered but ultimately isn’t there a much broader issue at stake? Something that when this minor issue is relegated to the status of a computer file we’ll be wondering, what was all that about?

  20. says

    I certainly stand with Pam and Robert. EDL has a great big bulls-eye painted on its back and every Leftist pro-Islam and multi-culti around is lining up to take a shot. I also support Tommy Robinson as he works to uphold the integrity of the EDL and keep it clear of anti-semitic infiltration.

    I’m marginalized anyway, since I’m not given to obeying the commandments of imaginary spectral Tyrants in the sky to
    distort and deny the happiness of individuals for the purpose of Their own greater “glory”. Anybody finds a shoe in there that fits, wear it with my compliments.

  21. says

    My head hurts.

    Stop this ‘inner struggle’ and unite against Islam!

    Our enemies are laughing their asses off!

    See here:

    EDL leader is banned from protest activity

    http://www.luton-dunstable.co.uk/News/EDL-leader-is-banned-from-protest-activity-01072011.htm

    The leader of the English Defence League has been banned from organising or taking part in any of the group’s protests as part of bail conditions.
    Stephen Lennon, of Layham Drive, Luton, pleaded not guilty to a public order offence, which is alleged to have happened at an EDL rally in Luton town centre on May 26 against Euro MEP Richard Howitt.
    At Luton Magistrates’ Court on Wednesday, the 26-year-old was granted conditional bail to reappear before magistrates on October 31 for a trial.
    As part of his conditions he must tell Luton police, within three days, if he is to move addresses.
    He must also not knowingly organise, travel to, or participate in any march, demonstration, protest or similar within ten miles of Luton.
    In addition he must not send any article, letter, fax or email that seeks to promote or publicise any match, demonstration or protest in the open air within ten miles of Luton.
    At a hearing at Blackburn Magistrates’ Court on June 24 in relation to an assault, he has been granted the same bail conditions, which also ban him from the above but which occur more than ten miles from the centre of Luton.
    He was also ordered by Blackburn magistrates to report to Luton Police station every Saturday between midday and 2pm, but he was unable to do so yesterday as he was on holiday.
    If he breaks any of his bail conditions he can be imprisoned.
    Mr Lennon, also known as Tommy Robinson, said: “It is pathetic.
    “We have taken a stance that we will be peaceful, if not we would have been a rioting mob.
    “We are an organised peaceful protest movement.
    “These conditions mean I can’t be leader of the EDL. They obviously want to get rid of me.
    “This is about who I am, not what I am accused of doing.”
    He is due to stand trial at Preston Magistrates’ Court for the assault charge on September 29

  22. says

    Yes, I do stand with you and Pamela. Always. And particularly when we can see that powerful forces are at work behind the scenes to attack Pamela and you.
    Keep up with the good work and stay safe.

  23. says

    I say again, the EDL will gain little worthwhile support in the U.K as long as it conducts ‘football hooligan, rent a mob’ style demonstrations whereby they shout mindless anti-Islam slogans at Muslims who are equally mindless.

    Islam is more likely to be undermined if it is challenged in a non-violent, non-confrontational manner to debate its beliefs practices and aims. In a situation like we find ourselves in, the pen is mightier than the sword and brains will defeat brawn.

    Robert Spencer does not attack Islam by beating a drum and shouting mindless slogans, he exposes the nature of Islam, using the ‘religion’s’ own source material.

  24. says

    Geller recently wrote (quoting from above):
    “I stand by my concern about the increasing antisemitism in the ranks of the admins at the EDL. We have no intention of breaking with the EDL if they purge these antisemitic elements. If they do not, they will be finished as a force for good in England.”

    But this was not her original position w/r/t the alleged anti-semitism. Here was her original position:

    “Now that the person whom I most trusted in the EDL, Roberta Moore, has resigned, as she was increasingly uncomfortable with the neo-fascists that had infiltrated the administration of the group, I too am withdrawing my support from the EDL. I hope that genuine anti-jihadists in Britain will also leave the EDL and work with Roberta on starting a new group … .”

    Geller wasn’t merely “calling attention to [the] problem,” as you so deceptively state, Robert. She condemned the EDL and called upon bona fide anti-islamists in the EDL to leave it and form a new group with her friend as its leader. It was this that so upset GoV and their allies, including the stalwart Elisabeth Sabaditsch-Wolff, and not the fact that she was calling attention to an alleged problem.

    I urge all JW readers of good faith not to blindly follow one side or the other, but to familiarize yourselves with the public record, which is readily available, and draw your own conclusions.

  25. says

    Apparently an update is required on the blogwar against Atlas that is being waged by vultures with an altogether nefarious agenda.

    War indeed. First step in any decent war is to demonize your enemy.

    So, someone in the EDL is tired of Zionists and hearing about Israel all the time? I can understand that, for while standing with Israel is good and proper, the main issue still is how to deal with Islam in our own countries. It ain’t anti-Semitism to have a nice and proper talk about that.

  26. says

    Roberta Moore wanted to align the EDL with a banned terrorist organization. Members of the EDL correctly gave a resounding ‘No!’ Said terrorist organization routinely labels opponents as anti-Semites and anti-Jewish. Well Bingo! That is exactly the accusation that Roberta Moore has levelled at the EDL. What a surprise…not. But how many of you all fell for it anyway?

    @ Wildjew

    You said: “Which of these two factions warned that murderous persecution against Germany’s Jews by the Nazis presaged something foreboding, perhaps cataclysmic for the continent? ”

    Oh I don’t know…how about Sir Nicholas Winton? Frank Foley? Sir Winston Chuurchill? Do a little more research on those first two names I mentioned. The results might surprise you. Additionally here is an article from the National Archive with relation to something called ‘Kindertransport’. Read that as well please.

    http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/podcasts/kindertransport.htm

    Another very interesting person to read about is someone called Rabbi Michael Ber Weissmandl so please feel free to research and understand what that poor man had to go through.

    There is more than enough information for those that can be bothered to do their own fact-checking rather than relying on heresay.

  27. says

    Here’s another comment that bears repeating over here. It is from the AS site, by EDLsupporter,

    who wrote:

    “I am absolutely dismayed at your antics Pamela Geller and your smearing of the EDL. I can’t believe somebody who has so steadfastly supported the anti-Jihad cause has been so incredibly thoughtless and unaware of the consequences of her actions. For somebody who is totally unaware of the problems Brits face from Islamism you are all too ready to shoot your mouth off from the USA about what should be or should not be supported by Brits in their own country.

    You do not live here in the UK and do not know how precarious things are here for Jews and the rest of the wider community, in danger from Islamism and now from people like you (and similar Jewish loudmouths who live in the UK) who have no compunction in pulling the rug out from under those Jews like me who have woken up to what is happening, and realise that the EDL is the only organisation that is prepared to put its boots where its mouth is and stand against the evils of Islam.
    It has been said by some Brits that Jews are only too happy to mouth off about the evils of Islamism, then leave the actual fight against it to others. The EDL welcomed Jews and other minorities who are in danger from Islamism, but thanks to people like you, Pamela Geller another ally in this fight each Jew in Britain has an obligation to join, has been alienated.

    I want to see proof that what you say is true. I want you to put up on your blog exactly what it was the EDL was supposed to have done to you, other than the fact that some people who obviously infiltrated its demos and were there to cause trouble allegedly gave Nazi salutes. I’d like to remind you, Pamela that Rabbi Shapira and Rabbi Lior don’t speak for all Jews, for the King’s Torah, so why should a few individuals from the EDL who supposedly upset you, manifest into you going after the whole organisation?

    I’d like to remind you all that despite certain Jews running their mouths off about sitting like effendis whilst goyim serve us, all our Gentile friends have not turned on us collectively. Unlike you, Pamela, others are showing better sense and reason. I suggest you get over yourself.

    As for Roberta Moore, she obviously blotted her copy book very seriously by wanting ties with the extremist Jewish Task Force. That would be the last thing the EDL would want, linking itself to such a proscribed terrorist organisation. The Jewish Task force is proscribed in the US. This translated into an absolute gift to the Muslims who then demanded that the Police and security services become involved. Funnily enough the EDL is having to fight off infiltrators,possibly planning a black op to incriminate them.

    There’s something else you need to take on board, Pamela. America may be a melting pot, but Europe is not. It is resistant to following in the US’s footsteps. We Europeans have the right to defend the integrity of our culture and the sovereignty of our nations.

    Pamela, you have absolutely no idea what a serious mistake you have made, and its ramifications for many British Jews like me who want to stand with our brave fellow Brits who have come to the end of their tether about the Islamification of our country and want to do something about it. Don’t we have enemies enough – without our own people alienating what few friends we have left?”

    No comment..

  28. says

    Sorry if using the hypothesis, data, conclusion lesson learned from highschool science class is too snobby for you.

    I was talking about the comments recently made on AS and JW and what they indicated, not what the original conflict was about. The original conflict was irrelevant to what I was saying.

    And thank you for your responce, that was illuminating too.

    Cutting and pasting other peoples material without personal comment then becoming aggressive, insulting and personal in order to intimidate when when someone responds is the way people with propogandistic purposes or who wish to influence others while masking their real intentions behave online.

    It is a simple pattern of behavior we have all seen many times before.

    If that is not your intent then you should never do it. Just say what you have to say.

    If you want Ms Gellar to apologize then say so. If you want people to think members of the EDL are angry then say so. If you want the EDL to have a stronger relationship with one western hemisphere group over another then say why.

    Your many posts on Gates Of Vienna haven’t been like this. On there you provide personal comments and don’t respond nastily. Why are you behaving this way here?

    One is beginning wonder if this is even the same person. An impersonator would try to make as few personal coments as possible so as to mask that they are not able to write in the style of the person they are impersonating.

  29. says

    Coming from a family in which intermarriage and assimilation is pervasive, I’ve got some first-hand knowledge of this. You may be correct. JDL may not have been the best group to invite – I am not an expert on the JDL and like-minded Jewish defense groups. But that alone cannot account for the nature of participants in the EDL, can it? That having been said, your argument (what you posted above) is not with JDL per se but with Moses and the God of Israel who gave the commandments. See Deuteronomy chapter 7. You may think the Almighty (the God of the “Old Testament”) is supremacist in that He commanded the Israelites not to marry outside of the nation. Some (perhaps more than some) are troubled by the law of Moses. I understand. Like they say, “It is what it is.”

  30. says

    With all due respect, Benny Hill,

    I see nothing in that article that I personally find offensive. Just replace, Jew and Jewish with Kaffir and it’s pretty much how I feel about the infiltration of kuranimals into Western society through immigration and inter-marriage with idiot Westerners.

    I sincerly wish my government would start taking measures to stop the influx of muslims and muslim-half breeds into my country and culture. It is the same attitude I see in the article you posted.

    I have no problem with any group of people wanting to remain homogenous. And I don’t care if it’s because they think they are superior than others so long as they don’t resort to killing those they don’t want in their society.

  31. says

    Unlike Spencer and Geller, I have no first-hand knowledge of the EDL. I’ve not met their activists. Unlike Spencer and Geller, I do not have my head on the chopping block because I might associate my good name with this or that prominent organization, like these two do on a regular basis. I do, however, know a little of the modern history between England and Israel; it is a strained one at best. There has been a good deal of tension between Britain and Israel since the establishment of the League of Nations Mandate for Palestine. I’m not saying EDL is reflective of that tension. I don’t know.

  32. says

    “The Star of David will continue to be shown at EDL demos, but seems many will simply turn their head from it and act as if it were not there.”

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    It’s not easy to stand with Israel, especially today. Much easier to turn your head; and your back on the beleaguered nation.

  33. says

    “….or maybe the two factions within the late Thirties British Parliament which fought over pacification or military defence against Hitler. On the latter its easy in hindsight to lambaste the anti war camp yet it must be remembered that the ghastly carnage inflicted in the trenches of the Great War was still a recent memory and an open, raw wound in the British psyche…..”

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Which of these two factions warned that murderous persecution against Germany’s Jews by the Nazis presaged something foreboding, perhaps cataclysmic for the continent?

  34. says

    logdon –

    I agree with you that the broader issue of combatting Islam and its carriers isn’t served by this side issue concerning “special divisions” (nomen est omen).

    I also noticed however, that you wrote the following:

    “GoV is a serious site and many of its pretty lengthy essays offer an erudition and insight especially with regard to Denmark and Scandinavia in general. Why they are now resorting to name calling eludes me.”

    Like I asked the insightful commenter “Winnie” in the previous thread: where did you see that name calling? Surely not in the open letter, I reckon?

    Meanwhile, as so many others who care for facts before anything else, I’m still waiting for this Roberta Moore character to present her evidence that the EDL administration, i.e. high ranking EDL members, were “making a turn for the worse”, so to speak, when she left (or was kicked out of) the EDL. The “evidence” presented so far, in no way substantiates the outrageous claims that this person made, nor does it justify the subsequent round of denouncing by those who seemed to take her word as gospel truth.

    Take care,
    Sag.

  35. says

    “I’m marginalized anyway, since I’m not given to obeying the commandments of imaginary spectral Tyrants in the sky…”

    Oh my gosh, Lilredbird, you still serving up that slop? Which irks you more, the fact that believers believe what you do not or that “ALL knees will bend to Him.”

  36. says

    “As for Roberta Moore, she obviously blotted her copy book very seriously by wanting ties with the extremist Jewish Task Force.”

    Jewish Task Force. So far the people who want her ostracized from the EDL have alternatly said on the comments pages about this issue that the group she wanted to connect with was the

    JTF Jewish Task Force
    JDF Jewish Defence Force
    JDL Jewish Defence League

    The people trying to cause division within the EDL and/or remove the jewish division have been saying the EXACT SAME THING about all three of these groups. Apparently they are all that single group that has been proscribed as a terrorist group. They are all that same group that let off bombs in russian interests in candada a zillion years ago.

    This “confusion” has been presented in comments that were carefully constructed to cause intense emotional responces. They were poorly written, increadibly aggressive, and filled with crude insults. They also mimicked the names of people who comment often on these pages. We would have been so incenced over the nasty behavior we would be distracted from thinking about the actual accusations.

    This smacks of intentional misinformation. Not just smack. It punches right in the face.

    The intent is to confuse people and make them think that ALL THREE were the group that that is the “proscribed group”. When people hear the names of those groups in the future, they may not remember all the confusion but they will remember that “they are a proscribed terrorist group that let off bombs” – never mind that there will be a 66% chance that tehy are thinking of the wrong group.

    This confusion over names also serves to distract people from thinking about weather those groups actually did let off bombs a zillion years ago.

    It distracts them from thinking if the jewish division leader really did try to connect with an unnatractive group – or if she tried to connect with one of the non violent groups but was intentionally miss-accused of trying to contact with a different group.

    It is like the angela lansberry scene in the Manchurian candidate where she explains that it is important to keep giving different numbers of communist infiltrators. This would change the question from ARE there any? to HOW MANY are there.

    I am absolutely sure GOV did not notice this subtlety as his style, and that of his contributors is to focus very tightly and exhaustively on specific subjects, which they do intimidatingly well. Perhaps they were fed erronious information by misinformed people. Perhaps they were intentionally lied to.

    As to who is doing it I really don’t know. British politicals get insanely byzintine when backstabbing each other.

    The choices are Fascists (BNP or unafiliated racists) Muslims or the radical left who’ve they have fooled into working for them. If all the visciousness was real it would be just these two goups. But if that visciousness was disingenuous and meant to distract I am sad to say we have to add the British internal security services to the list of suspects.

    If that is true they have made a very grave error in trying to disrupt the EDL group when they could have liaisoned with them to both organizations great benifit. They could have helped each other be more effective AND MI-5 could have been able to make sure the EDL does not descend into soemthing they are afraid it might.

    Just as they failed so horribly to act upon the threat of islamic extremism for so very long, they have failed to recognize a uniquely excellent opportunity.

    That is of course if they are one of the groups behind or attempting to exploit this crisis.

  37. says

    From the horse’s mouth (Ms Moore):

    “Q: Roberta Moore allied us all with the JTF (Jewish Task Force – http://www.jtf.org) a “terrorist organisation”, led by a “terrorist” called Victor Vancier. Why and by whose authority?
    A: Tommy and Kevin hooked up with the JDL (Jewish Defence League) in Canada long before I suggested an alliance with the JTF (Jewish Task Force). The JTF is NOT a terrorist organisation, nor is it listed as such. I contacted the JTF by my own authority since I was the one offering the support, and I strongly believe that I did the right thing. The JDL however was the organisation which was listed as having committed acts of Terrorism. Whether we agree with their being listed as a terrorist organisation or not is a different matter altogether.
    Since the EDL supports the land of Israel and the right of Jews to own their sovereign country, I did not think that this would be a problem.”

    Here’s an interesting comment on the AS site by EDL member trinovante, who wrote?

    “Caroline Rausch, Pam Geller and Robert Spencer have just alienated the majority of the most successful anti jihad group in the world, that’s how clever they are.
    As for “Palestinian propaganda” in the UK over the last twenty years,you are correct, we have loads of anti Semites,you will find them in groups like, Antifa, UAF, SWP, numerous Islamic groups and Neo Nazi groups, those groups love a good old fashioned anti Semite. WE IN THE EDL KICK THEIR FACES OFF, we re-educated them as to the errors off their ways.

    You have no idea what it is like to be a member of the EDL in this country, we get beaten, arrested, lose our jobs and are called Nazi’s by our government and media, now, so-called “allies” have done the same, all on the word of ONE member who did nothing but advance her own agenda and cause trouble. Some of her own members of the Jewish division wanted her gone, are they Nazi’s??

    [..]

    I am on record as supporting Israel, which is why the likes of Bartolomeus, Fern and Juniper have not tried to attack me on this site. That support is now withdrawn until the EDL gets a well deserved apology from Geller and Spencer. They were never my “allies” anyway,you march down the street with me and risk injury and a prison sentence for fighting against Islam, then you can pass comment on who i am!!”

    Take care,
    Sag.

  38. says

    … and demonstrating her continued blissful unconcern for the “Nazis welcome” policy at “Politically Incorrect”, Monika Kaufmann today publishes a signed article at “PI”.

    Somewhat encouraging, Jihadwatch yesterday quickly pulled an article by Kaufmann from its own main page. One hopes that this was done based on a recognition of not only her poor writing skill but also the nature of her association with the dubious website “PI”.

  39. says

    Thank you for attempting to clear things up. Unfortunately you only provided data but with neither hypothesis nor conclusion. This method of illumination is not helpfull.

    As you didn’t provide actual comment as to what you thought those statments meant to you, there is no way to really know why you provided each of them or what they were supposed to indicate.

    You did not provide any links. So it’s impossible to know who or where or when they were said. The commenters may have changed their minds since making those comments. It’s also too much trouble to find out from real world players if they really made the comments, or if they were by people who’d hacked their accounts or used similar screenames. We saw on these boards people were using screenames intentionally similar to the names people already on these pages use, a classic trolling behavior intended to piss people off so as to hamper their critical thinking (JW gets almost as many trolls as youtube and this gives readers a crash course in trollspotting and subtle propoganda tricks).

    The comments you provided do show one thing. People are also trying to exploit this to try to create or exacerbate tensions and divison between American and British anti jihadists. But who? The list is endless.

    That’s why I suggested we should all support the EDL weather they decide to incorporate the ethnic divisions into the group or keep the organizational model the currently have.

    The first paragraph indicates you’re saying there was confusion about this from day one. As you don’t provide comment on it I can’t be blamed for missconstuing your intent. Are you saying it has persisted and that people have not had months to figure out the specifics from statments made by Mr. Robinson and Ms. Moore? Are you claiming these rude commenters are still confused? I am afraid I have decided to believe what my lying eyes have told me and can’t agree with that hypothesis. Again, you provided no comment on what that paragraph was specificaly in reaciton to, what it meant in relation to what I said or why you provided it.

    It doesn’t matter in any case as I was talking about what people who claimed to be EDL were saying on these comments pages in the last few days and what was indicated by the content and general behavior exhibited in those comments.

    It eventually came out that what Ms Gellar was talking about was behavior happening on the EDL message boards. And thanks to the deplorable behavior exhibited here we got a glimpse of the kind of behavior going on over there and that convinced me there had been substance behind her original too veague assertion.

    I can see and understand both sides to this. Had there been no further illumination forthcoming GOV would have been entirely justified and I would have unahppily voiced my own insignificant support, as was my first impulse.

    But as I have shown, more illumination was forthcoming, and the various commenters provided it themselves, just not in the way they intended (fully justified snicker).

    It seems as though differences were very quickly patched up anyway and there are far more important things happening.

  40. says

    Trythiocity –

    You wrote:

    “Unfortunately you only provided data but with neither hypothesis nor conclusion.”

    Well, that makes it all sound pretty “academic” doesn’t it?
    The “data” are on the AS site, as I mentioned in previous posts, and I trust you can do your own homework on this and draw your own conclusions. And yes, there has been “illumination” for sure, smacking of pseudo-intellectual snobbery, US parochialism and unsavoury political activism by Moore c.s. (of the Trotskyist variety).

    All right, I’ll throw you a link. It’s a comment by a good friend of Ms Moore, who wrote:

    “She is a valuable person for EDL to have among its members; the creation of EDL, Jewish Division, if supported, would be a drawing card to persuade educated, intellectual and patriotic Jewish people to join.”

    Oh and the statement by Ms Moore is right above the one by her educated, intellectual friend.

    All in all a tempest in a tea pot, not doubt, but also rather illuminating indeed.

    Last comment in that AS thread (by trinovante):

    “You really don’t get it do you?
    We in the EDL do not care if a bunch of keyboard warriors like you, Geller and Spencer think we are “valuable, worthy, effective and necessary” and we certainly do not look to you or anybody else outside of the UK for acceptance!

    Geller has back tracked on her pathetic slander about the EDL but is not decent enough to apologise.
    There is no problem with anti Semitism within the EDL, if we see it we stop it!!
    There is a problem however with certain people and their anti Gentile agenda, we will also put a stop to that.

    We were called Nazi’s for not wanting to get involved with a Jewish terrorist group??
    Newsflash people, the EDL might support Israel but we don’t support terrorism, no matter who’s bloody well doing it, we’ll leave that sort of thing to Roberta Moore and her cronies!!”

    Take care,
    Sag.

  41. says

    Truthiocity –

    Somehow you seem bent on taking my comments the wrong way (as you persist in writing “Gellar” instead of Geller), even implying a “nick-hack”, which is quite unfortunate. As I might have indicated more clearly, my use of the term “snobbery” wasn’t about your valuable comments, but instead it referred to the statements made by the friend of Ms Moore.

    As for the general gist of your remarks, if you don’t like quotations from EDL members or the slightly angered tone emanating from them, that’s too bad, but there’s no need whatsoever for me to explain anything at your request, although I agree that a link to the source would have been helpful.
    I thought I had corrected that in my previous post and I must say that I’m a bit surprised to see it rewarded by your lecturing tone. Lastly, and in conclusion of this exchange, I repeat that I trust you with doing your own homework and satisfy your need for conclusions by drawing them yourself.

    Take care,
    Sag.