In a lengthy hit piece in which they rely on the “research” of the Prince Alwaleed-funded “Bridge Initiative” of Georgetown University, the Leftist Catholic magazine Commonweal says that “Spencer disagrees with the thrust of modern church teaching on Islam and Muslims.”
By that they mean that I disagree with Pope Francis’ claim that “authentic Islam and the proper reading of the Koran are opposed to every form of violence,” as any sane and informed person, Catholic or non-Catholic, should. If that is indeed “church teaching,” then the Catholic Church has a massive problem: it is presenting outright falsehood as “church teaching,” and cannot be trusted by Catholics or anyone else.
And indeed, the Catholic Church, and Christians in general, do have a problem: a general denial of the nature and magnitude of the jihad threat, and a tendency to condemn those who are raising awareness of jihad terror and Sharia oppression, including the Muslim persecution of Christians, as “Islamophobes.”
Get the details, both from my often harrowing personal experiences with Catholic and other Christian officials, and from current news, as unbelievable as it may seem, in my new book Confessions of an Islamophobe, which could be subtitled what happens when an ordinary person starts calling attention to the jihad terror threat. Preorder your copy here now.
Bodega says
It makes me think the Church was subverted long ago. What have Catholic historians said about Islam through the last 1000 years? Has it changed in the last 100 years? When did it change after the Crusades?
Jim says
The moral teachings of the Catholic Church have not changed since Christ. You can verify this for yourself by reading the writings of the early Church Fathers.
When did it turn leftist is another question? This is a book titled “Liberalism is a Lie” written by a Spanish priest in the 1889’s, I think it was. ( http://www.liberalismisasin.com/chapter25.htm but you should read it from the beginning. )
The Liberalism we talk about today comes from the French Revolution (which was anti-Catholic), which itself is a result of the “Reformation.” As French Liberalism grew (and consequentially, Marxism, which is an outcome of the French Revolution, I think more an more priests fell under the spell of that liberalism by being exposed to it in schools and colleges and they became “liberalized”. The European immigrants brought liberalism to this country starting in the 1880’s and after.
Further reading on this subject:
Worshipping the State, by Benjamin Wiker, Ph.D. and another book by him and Scott Hahn, Ph.D., The Politicizing the Bible. Both are Catholics and professors at Universities. The books are on Amazon.
jihad3tracker says
HELLO JIM — Below is a copy of my response to poster Richard, at several comments below yours here.
SO MANY OF ROBERT SPENCER’S BLOG READERS HERE ARE ASKING what is a rational – logical – intelligent explanation for the Catholic Church’s VECTOR INTO EXTINCTION = SUICIDE.
“Thank you for contributing an excellent reality check on traditional versus current Catholicism. I am not a member of that faith, and not deeply-read in the last several decades of its contextual analysis.
Here is my own intuition about Leftist “special pleading” for Islam: Simply put, it arises from guilt. Catholics who contribute to Commonweal and similar sources are distinctly ABOVE average for income levels and safe neighborhoods.
The only Muslims ever encountered are rendered harmless by internet barriers. And, of course, those privileged Catholics ARE AWARE of weekly jihad slaughter, so they must “signal virtue” — as someone lucidly wrote in the last couple of years.
BY THE WAY — If you and other JW fans are not already aware of Dr. David Wood — www [dot] answeringmuslims [dot] com — please visit his blog. Among the best resources, with Pam Geller + Bill Warner + Daniel Greenfield + Jamie Glazov + Frank Gaffney + Asra Nomani + Bat Yeor + MANY others.”
Malcolm (South Afric) says
@c Jim
In total agreement with this excerpt ” The Liberalism we talk about today comes from the French Revolution (which was anti-Catholic), which itself is a result of the “Reformation.” In agreement with the entire paragraph.
The issues that the West face is not the Catholic Church, it is the weakness of secular government actions, that threatens their own culture and traditions.
One would think it were the Pope, that is the enabler of mass migration and not the polices of individual government whose policies are now projected on Catholics.
It is a total waste of time in efforts to attack our Church or migrants, instead of their enablers which is ultimately secular governments.
Catholics in Poland, Czechoslovakia, hopeful Austria are showing the way. We get what we chose in secular democracy so voters need to ask themselves questions
This reality, cannot pierce through hatred and prejudice.
Fatima 1917-2017 says
Isn’t it funny how you don’t seem to know about Fatima 1917 and what pope John Paul II said in 1976 about the anti-church?
But then “there are none so blind as those who refuse to see”.
“pope” francis is the most HERETICAL pope in living memory.
You clearly do not know that many of the prayers Catholics say have been altered . the liturgy of the mass has been changed..or that the ecclesiastical freemasonry of Opus Dei runs the Vatican.
The greatest enemy of Catholics and the Church today is the false prophet francis in Rome and his Church Administrators.
Follow him to perdition if you must,pretend not to see if you want but do not say that warnings were not given about the deception at the highest level in the Church{La Salette,Fatima,Garabandal,the warnings of at least two Popes..}
Timothy says
I wish I could reply directly to Fatima, but here goes as I cannot let this go:
The apparitions mentioned of La Salette, Fatima, and Garabandal can be biblically checked and found wanting. in EACH case they point the follower away from Christ and toward an apparition or other act that one must do to gain salvation or world peace. These apparitions and their resulting stories should be forgotten and quickly. These degrade Christ as if He alone were not enough. They only point away from Christ and back to works Righteousness – the very form of evil Satan conjured up in man from the very beginning. (Eat of that fruit and you shall be like God.) These apparitions are not of God but of Satan. Even Christ said the world will get worse, not better. Oh how would we be so different if we actually listened to Him!!
The Roman church is much confused. These are not the only faults as we all have many. Together with Christ only can we overcome them through his work and the work of the Counselor – not our own work. I pray our Father send them both and work profusely in all the hearts of those who love Him and grow the seeds of His Love in those who don’t. (Leave the apparitions and their magical fantasies to the wind.)
gravenimage says
Malcolm, I know you have said before that it is not a problem that Pope Francis is preaching that there should be no brake on the hordes of Muslim rapists flooding into the West–and that we have no right to criticize this–but I cannot agree.
Even if you don’t care what happens to non-Catholic Infidels, what about the Catholics who will wind up their victims? I care about them, even if you don’t.
James says
The Church’s doctrine on Islam has changed, and there is no way getting round this. One says this witn no pleasure whatever, but reality must always take priority over what, for reasons of doctrine, one might want to be the case.
Anyone who wishes to see how the Papacy in particular has become pro-Islamic need go no further than this link:
http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/ecumenical-and-interreligious/interreligious/islam/vatican-council-and-papal-statements-on-islam.cfm
It contains quotations from November 1964 to November 2013, and there are more links on the page.
The Church’s lack of understanding of Islam is unbounded. It makes the very simple, but deadly, mistake of assessing Islam from a Catholic POV, and so of noticing simiilarities with its own faith in God, rather than of asking what the Muslim sources say and mean as interpreted by Islam and Islam’s POV.
The reason the CC makes this blunder, is that at V2 it made a conscious decision to put aside condemnations of error, and to look for what other religions had in common with Catholicism, rather than at the differences. However admirable this might be in principle, it is a disastrous approach when applied to Islam, because it ignores almost everything about Islam that makes Islam to be Islamic.
The CC at V2 does not, in fact, “adore the One God with Muslims” – for what the CC means by the Oneness of God is utterly different from what Islam means by Tawhid. Islam has a detailed theology of Tawhid, and it absolutely excludes as blasphemous all hint of what Catholics affirms as truth revealed by God: that the Oneness of God is manifested as Threeness of Divine Persons in the Oneness of the Divine Nature. Catholics do not at all worship the god of Islam, for the god of Islam is not the God of Jesus Christ or of Christian Tradition, but is far closer to the devil of Christian Tradition.
One can only be grateful for David Wood, Robert Spencer, Pamela Geller, and others who supply the less palatable facts about Islam. The CC refuses to, and too many other Christian bodies are no different.
RichardL says
you are wrong and Robert is right: the doctrine has changed after Vatican II but Pope Francis is way out there. I know many, many Catholics who openly disagre with this Pope’s politics. And that is totally fine. Check out Martin Rhonheimer. He is a very prominent priest and professor and his opinion on islam is exactly in line with Robert’s. Exactly. I know because I know him and I have been here on JW pretty much from the beginning. He is Opus Dei and the bandwith of opinion in Opus Dei and the debating culture (friendly, fact-based, constant) is just amazing. Robert should come and speak at one of its universities.
Shane says
I think that the explanation for the Catholic Church ignoring Islam’s 1400-year-old history of violence, persecution, torture, misogyny, and aggression is simple – the RC Church has been taken over by Leftists and the Left is allied with Islamists to destroy Western Civilization. This Pope and the people who elected him are traitors to their religion and to Western Civilization, as are left-wingers. I urge all Catholics to leave their corrupt and traitorous Church, or at least stop donating to it.
Andy says
Here are some great video from Mr. Spencer
Robert Spencer – The Crusades, Fact & Fiction
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMGRGtiO9Ro
Islam’s View of Christianity – Robert Spencer at Franciscan University
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBSJspPc2Dc
Shane says
Here are some other videos about The Crusades – How the Crusades Saved Europe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMjUFBYEzqQ
The Crusades: A Defensive Response to Islamic Aggression, Bill Warner: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2OyapO4TNo&list=PL0190DA95A29367A7
Did Islamic Atrocities Provoke the Crusades? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imTY5izhTDo
gravenimage says
Bodega, Catholic pandering to Islam is a very recent phenomenon.
Lionel Andrades says
NOVEMBER 11, 2017
Leftist Catholic media use a false premise to re-interpret Vatican Council II
Commonweal, National Catholic Reporter, Crux and other leftist Catholic newspapers are not reporting that Vatican Council II teaches all need faith and baptism for salvation(Ad Gentes 7, Lumen Gentium 14). So according to Vatican Council II all non Catholics are on the way to Hell.
Secondly those saved in invincible ignorance(LG 16), or baptism of desire (LG 14) etc are hypothetical cases. There are no such known case in 2017 or the last 100 years or during our life time. So invisible cases cannot be projected as exceptions to Ad Gentes 7 which says ‘all’ need ‘faith and baptism’ for ‘salvation’.
Similarly the baptism of desire, baptism of blood and being saved in invincible ignorance do not refer to explicit and known people saved outside the Church. So they cannot be exceptions to the Feeneyite interpretation of the dogma outside the Church there is no salvation.
So when liberals and leftists, including ecclesiastical Masonry, indicate that the Church has changed its teachings, theologically, they are referring to confusion over hypothetical cases being non hypothetical, LG 16 etc not being invisible but visible people. In this way they change the teachings of the Church on exclusive salvation.When they do it after being informed then it is deception.
However the rational, traditional and non heretical interpretation of Vatican Council II supports the old exclusivist ecclesiology of the Church, the past ecclesiology of an ecumenism of return.
This error is also being made by the traditionalists.1
-Lionel Andrades
1
No denial from SSPX : Books of Archbishop Lefebvre are obsolete now : so are the writings on Vatican Council II by Chris Ferrara and Roberto dei Mattei
No denial. They all agree with me. The SSPX knows that LG 16 etc cannot be an exception to Feeneyite EENS. They made a mistake for the last 50 years and more.
NOVEMBER 8, 2017
Books of Archbishop Lefebvre are obsolete now : so are the writings on Vatican Council II by Chris Ferrara and Roberto dei Mattei
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2017/11/books-of-archbishop-lefebvre-are.html
NOVEMBER 11, 2017
SSPX continues to calumniate Fr. Leonard Feeney : doctrinal ignorance prevents them from using Catholic churches on Sunday
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2017/11/sspx-continues-to-calumniate-fr-leonard.html
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2017/11/no-denial-books-of-archbishop-lefebvre.html
Risto Kantonen says
It’s not just the Catholic church either, for example the officials of the Finnish Evangelical Lutheran church spew this same nonsense. And i’m sure there are many other churches in various countries that do the same.
We know that these organisations and the individuals within said organisation are profiting from the influx of these threat elements by directing them to the housing businesses, lawyer services, health care etc. that they are invested in.
The church is corrupt to the core.
Tanja says
I am very much afraid that you are absolutely right about it. Migrants are nothing but a huge bussiness for NGOs and Caritas alike. How very shortsighted it is…
gravenimage says
Unfortunately, many Christians are clueless about Islam, and many–as here–are out-and-out dhimmis.
blitz2b says
I’m appalled and ashamed. Being Catholic, I know I shouldn’t but I hate this Pope for being such a hypocrite. But if I don’t disagree with his Islamic condescending diatribe then I would be the hypocrite.
How does one claim leadership of a religion whose founder is truth himself, then willfully indulge in defending falsehoods and deceit is beyond understanding…..
What exactly is the agenda of Pope Francis’ stance on Islam in the face of Ir’s blatant attack on Christianity’s scriptures and Ir’s adherent’s persecution of Christians worldwide?
WorkingClassPost says
This is a recurring question, and it may be the church’s view of muhamed that has changed, and where he used to be viewed as a wicked usurper, he is now seen as a kind of misguided, but benevolent message bringer.
As if he is delivering us all to the same God, so that end will justify the means.
This is from a while back, but nothing has changed (certainly, nothing for the better):-
http://primaryaccount.blogspot.co.uk/2016/08/france-what-name-enemy_3.html
Richard says
Dear Mr. Spencer:
I am a traditional Catholic, and the greatest compliment I could give you is that your thoughts on Islam are not in union with “current’ Church teaching. As you probably know, tens of millions have fled the Church in this country because current Church teaching is not in line with Church teaching of the last two thousand years. When I can’t go to a traditional Mass, I go to one at our local Cathedral. I have to go early with my Bible to check the readings and follow what the reader is “reading” as Scripture against the actual Scripture itself. Usually, it isn’t. God is not politically correct, so the unaware faithful are given “the word of the Lord” as it would have been ‘if God had been as intelligent as the priest is.’ The results are often major heresies. On one occasion, St. Paul’s reading denounced adultery three times. Two of those were deleted by the reader and their third “adultery” was changed to “sin”. That is fine for the adulterers, but what about their spouses and children? As Fr. Eamon Mackin said in a sermon regarding a sin that had been deleted from the reading: “It’s not in there, but you can’t do it anyway!” Islam is a Catholic Arian heresy. St. Paul denounced circumcision for MEN. One can only imagine his horror at circumcising little girls! When the Muslims conquered the Holy Land, they were at first left in peace by the Church. It was only when they started torturing, raping and murdering Christians that the Crusades were launched. A number of religious orders were founded whose members were to ransom Christian slaves from the Muslims, or exchange themselves as slaves in place of those they freed. If I were to compare you to anyone, it would be St. Bernard, who rallied Christian Europe to defend their brothers and sisters who were being subjected to every manner of Muslim horrors, including a tax which was to be paid with Christian children.
Yours in Christ,
jihad3tracker says
HELLO RICHARD —
Thank you for contributing an excellent reality check on traditional versus current Catholicism. I am not a member of that faith, and not deeply-read in the last several decades of its contextual analysis.
Here is my own intuition about Leftist “special pleading” for Islam: Simply put, it arises from guilt. Catholics who contribute to Commonweal and similar sources are distinctly ABOVE average for income levels and safe neighborhoods.
The only Muslims ever encountered are rendered harmless by internet barriers. And, of course, those privileged Catholics ARE AWARE of weekly jihad slaughter, so they must “signal virtue” — as someone lucidly wrote in the last couple of years.
BY THE WAY — If you and other JW fans are not already aware of Dr. David Wood — www [dot] answeringmuslims [dot] com — please visit his blog. Among the best resources, with Pam Geller + Bill Warner + Daniel Greenfield + Jamie Glazov + Frank Gaffney + Asra Nomani + Bat Yeor + MANY others.
LeftisruiningCanada says
“Islam is a Catholic Arian heresy”
This isn’t really a theological forum, but how do you figure that? The Arians still credited the Son with being at least some kind of divine, though created, being, just of a substance different to that of the Father.
For islam, their Isa is merely a prophet, and far from the best in that catagory. Islam seems to be a fundamentally different system altogether, sharing little if anything in common with either Judaism or Christianity.
gravenimage says
All great sources, jihad3tracker.
gravenimage says
anotherJWreader wrote:
I agree about the tax paid with Christian children. One of my ancestors was that tax. He escaped as an adult.
………………………….
Yes–the Ottoman Empire demanded Christian children as part of the Jizya. Boys were chiefly used as Janissaries, and girls went to the Harems.
Most infidels know nothing about this.
Glad that your ancestor escaped.
StacyGirl says
Truth never changes, unlike our chameleon pope.
St. Manuel II Palaiologos says
Exactly. Truth never changes, unlike the Popes and their “Church”
gravenimage says
Most pontiffs haven’t appeased Islam–just the opposite, in fact.
blitz2b says
I lost all respect for Francis when he in his slurry speech once said… (Paraphrasing)… “… A personal relationship with Jesus Christ is dangerous without the church (catholic?)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sGH20H8AV2U
What an annoyingly uninformed, tedious old man this pontiff has turned out to be.
Jim says
Never be ashamed of being Roman Catholic. The moral teachings are still the same. The Holy Spirit guards those truths and the Church. (The Gates of Hell shall not prevail against it. It doesn’t say it won’t be tried, just that is won’t prevail.) That does not mean it will not have bad Popes or priests, but that the moral teachings will survive. We are to forgive them, even if they don’t want to be forgiven, and we must do it “490” times a day, an hour if necessary.
St. Manuel II Palaiologos says
Keep telling yourself that.
blitz2b says
Jim says “….The Gates of Hell shall not prevail against it. …”
Jim, I don’t think Christ meant that exclusively for the Roman Catholic Church, but all of the body of Christ, every denomination that proclaims Him as God, and celebrates his death and resurrection.
There are many “truths” of the catholic church that blatantly contradict Jesus’ teachings, so how is it rightly guided or guarded by the Holy Spirit?
Nevertheless we can all debate secondary issues as long as we all agree on the basic truth “… Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again..”
Instead of pandering to Islam, Francis should delve into scripture and see what it says. I wish someone would convey this particular scripture verse to him…◄ 2 Corinthians 6:14
“……Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?…”
Christ is light…. Islam darkness!
Malcolm (South Afric) says
@ Jim
Amen
le mouron rouge says
Pope John Paul II did his share of damage as he “embraced” all religions.
This from the Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church, Second Edition, revised in accordance with the official Latin text promulgated by Pope John Paul II.
Copyright 1994, 1997 Page 223, Section 841
The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; they profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”
As a former Roman Catholic I count my blessings that I responded to Revelation 18:4
“And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.”
James says
That quotation in the Catechism is CCC 841, and is from the Second Vatican Council:
“16. Finally, those who have not yet received the Gospel are related in various ways to the people of God.(18*) In the first place we must recall the people to whom the testament and the promises were given and from whom Christ was born according to the flesh.(125) On account of their fathers this people remains most dear to God, for God does not repent of the gifts He makes nor of the calls He issues.(126) But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator.
In the first place amongst these there are the Muslims, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind.
Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things,(127) and as Saviour wills that all men be saved.(128) Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.(19*) Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life. Whatever good or truth is found amongst them is looked upon by the Church as a preparation for the Gospel.(20*) She knows that it is given by Him who enlightens all men so that they may finally have life. But often men, deceived by the Evil One, have become vain in their reasonings and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, serving the creature rather than the Creator.(129) Or some there are who, living and dying in this world without God, are exposed to final despair. Wherefore to promote the glory of God and procure the salvation of all of these, and mindful of the command of the Lord, “Preach the Gospel to every creature”,(130) the Church fosters the missions with care and attention.”
http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html
That is Lumen Gentium 16. Compare Nostra Aetate 3:
“3. The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.
Since in the course of centuries not a few quarrels and hostilities have arisen between Christians and Moslems, this sacred synod urges all to forget the past and to work sincerely for mutual understanding and to preserve as well as to promote together for the benefit of all mankind social justice and moral welfare, as well as peace and freedom.”
http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651028_nostra-aetate_en.html
That is all that V2 says about Islam. CCC 841 is all that the CCC says about Islam.
James says
As for Rev 18.4, what has that to do with the CC ? St John is quoting words of Jeremiah that were spoken about Babylon. This forum is hardly the best place for Catholic-bashing. Why not go off to a Fundy site and do it there ? This site is after all run by a Catholic, so posting Fundy anti-Catholic stuff on this site is pretty jerkish 🙁
le mouron rouge says
James says
November 7, 2017 at 11:49 pm
As for Rev 18.4, what has that to do with the CC ? St John is quoting words of Jeremiah that were spoken about Babylon. This forum is hardly the best place for Catholic-bashing. Why not go off to a Fundy site and do it there ? This site is after all run by a Catholic, so posting Fundy anti-Catholic stuff on this site is pretty jerkish ?
****************************
Catholic bashing? Really?
Is Robert Spencer a Roman Catholic?
Would he agree with your assessment that the RCC and its teachings are exempt from criticism on this site?
In the book of Revelation, who is the woman that rides the beast?
What faith does the false prophet represent?
What form will the one world religion take, the RCC, Islam, or a combination of?
Why the name calling? Seems to be a typical response from Roman Catholics when someone disagrees with the teaching of the RCC?
gravenimage says
le mouron rouge wrote:
Catholic bashing? Really?
………………………..
Unfortunately, le mouron rouge, one does find Catholic bashing here at times. I don’t think this is useful.
More:
Is Robert Spencer a Roman Catholic?
………………………..
Actually, he is Catholic. He is a Melkite–eastern rites–Catholic.
More:
Would he agree with your assessment that the RCC and its teachings are exempt from criticism on this site?
………………………..
Clearly not–he is himself critical of what some Catholics–like the boobs in this story–have to say.
On the other hand, this is not “Catholicism Watch”–nor should it be. Those who want to hysterically rant about the Catholic Church being the “Whore of Babylon” are off topic at best.
And no, I am not Catholic myself–I just don’t find Christians of different denominations bashing each other to be useful in the fight against Jihad.
The fact is that there is a lot of dhimmitude these days–it is not restricted to any one group.
blitz2b says
James says “…What mystifies me is why so many people, including Catholics, seem to think that Pope Francis is the only Pope to be nice about Islam….”
James, two wrongs don’t make a right, just because previous popes made obvious misjudgements about Islam, does not mean that this Pope should follow suite.
Islam was probably not as much of a force to reckon with then as it obviously is now, with the flow of refugees from Islamic countries pouring into Christian Europe and changing the very nature of the continent, the almost weekly attacks the world witnesses in the name of the Islamic deity, and the ongoing persecution of Christians everywhere in the Islamic world, the least Francis as being a leader of the catholic church should do is to condemn these attacks and open it’s doors to these wretched followers of his church, instead of pandering to Islam and pretending to know what it’s “authentic” readings say.
gravenimage says
I loved Pope John Paul II–but yes, he could be pretty clueless about Islam. Nowhere near as bad as Pope Francis, though.
Jon Sobieski says
How does one claim leadership of a religion whose founder is truth himself, then willfully indulge in defending falsehoods and deceit is beyond understanding….. Some would say Francis is possessed by evil. I don’t buy that. The Pope, at one time, was considered God’s voice to answer the difficult questions Catholics may have. This Pope has proven that is pure nonsense.
James says
What the present Pope says about Islam, and why, is no mystery at all – as long as one is aware that his remarks fit into a recent tradition of Catholic commentary on Islam that has been normal in the CC since 1964. As this shows:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html
What mystifies me is why so many people, including Catholics, seem to think that Pope Francis is the only Pope to be nice about Islam. I can only guess that such Catholics are ignorant of what the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which is now 25 years old, says about Islam; or that they are too young to remember John Paul II and his friendliness to Islam, which went far beyond anything Pope Francis has done. Maybe both explanations explain this weird fixation on Pope Francis alone.
Carolyne says
Maybe it’s because he is the present Pope and earlier Popes are not part of the present situation. For myself, I don’t think a Pope is relevant at all, but many do. It is a mystery to me why people who believe in Christ would follow an institution which over centuries has greedily collected great works of art and treasures beyond imagination and claims to follow a poor, simple carpenter from Judea. Did Christ have treasures? Didn’t He say something about not collecting treasures on earth?
I do not think modern man needs such mythology, but certainly we do not need Gomer Pyle in a dress. Nothing he says has any relevance to me. At least he isn’t carried around on a golden throne anymore like Cleopatra.
gravenimage says
Good point, Carolyne–it is a lot harder to be clueless about Islam than it was decades ago.
It is also far more dangerous to us all for the Pope to be so.
James says
I think this is an excellent example of good intentions on the part of the Papacy having catastrophic results. To understand why the current Pope speaks as he does about Islam, it is absolutely vital to avoid concentrating on him alone, and to look instead at the tradition he stands is, which began in 1964:
http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/ecumenical-and-interreligious/interreligious/islam/vatican-council-and-papal-statements-on-islam.cfm
He is only the most recent Pope to be friendly to Islam, This friendliness is not of his making – he is merely speaking in the same way as Popes have done since 1964, in obedience to the Second Vatican Council. To concentrate only on the present Pope. and to ignore what Popes have said since 1964, only succeeds in giving the false impression that PF is unique in being friendly to Islam, In no way is he unique in this.
Shane says
The situation is much worse than you describe. Here we have the head of the largest Christian church in the world openly advocating for the West to take in millions of Muslims who will never assimilate into our culture and who will attempt to use whatever means necessary to force their barbaric religion down our throats. This is treason towards the West and to Christianity. The last thing the West needs are more fanatical Muslims who will commit terrorism, sexual assaults, and crimes against Christians. It may be time for the Catholic Church to die a deserved death.
mortimer says
Pope Francis is a SPONTANEOUS, UNREAD and UNSTUDIED “INSTANT EXPERT” on Islam. He is preposterous. How can he know anything about Islam without reading AND STUDYING the ONE DOZEN Islamic source texts that make up the BASIC ISLAMIC LITERATURE? Obviously, Pope Francis CANNOT know what he claims to know.
Anyone who has plowed through the MISERABLY APPALLING and DEPRESSING Islamic primary texts can tell INSTANTLY that Pope Francis is FRAUDULENTLY claiming to be an expert on Islam when he is clearly not.
Pope Francis’ FRAUDULENCE is the sin of PRIDE and PRESUMPTUOUSNESS.
Al Azhar is the TRUE EXPERT on Islam and the fatwas and writings of Al Azhar scholars DO NOT agree with Pope Francis, but contradict his WHITEWASHED and SANITIZED SPONTANEOUS version of Islam.
It is shocking that a church leader would be so PRESUMPTUOUS as Pope Francis is.
Bill says
Jorge Mario Bergoglio is a Communist first and foremost. If he can destabiliize western nations to achieve his dreams of communist global dominance by using Islam as one of his tools he will (and is) doing it. The leftist mag is one of his tools as well.
James says
That is an absurd accusation. Communists are atheistic materialists – two things Pope Francis manifestly is not. If people can be so absurdly wrong about the Pope – whose words can easily be found if people look for them on the Vatican website rather than trusting to third-hand reports – one has to wonder if the makers of this accusation are any better informed about Islam.
gravenimage says
James, this pope embraces “Liberation Theology”, which does indeed have many aspects of Communism, and was influenced by that creed.
In fact, Pope Francis, in an interview with with Eugenio Scalfari, when asked “You told me some time ago that the precept, “Love your neighbour as thyself” had to change, given the dark times that we are going through, and become “more than thyself.” So you yearn for a society where equality dominates. This, as you know, is the programme of Marxist socialism and then of communism. Are you therefore thinking of a Marxist type of society?” he replied:
“It it has been said many times and my response has always been that, if anything, it is the communists who think like Christians.”
Terry Gain says
Mortimer
Could you do me the favour of listing the one dozen Islamic source texts to which you refer. Thank you.
Jon Sobieski says
Start with koran, sira, traveler, hadiths (at least the 5 most popular) to start.
Mockingjay says
Excellent text – as always – Mortimer!
Carolyne says
Maybe Pope Francis believes that since he was appointed Pope, apparently by God, everything he says and thinks comes from God. Therefore he doesn’t need to study anything since God puts the words in his mouth.
WorkingClassPost says
Is that the same church teaching that said the Sun must revolve around the Earth, or there was no God?
St. Manuel II Palaiologos says
I don’t know about the latter, but they also once said that Limbo existed, until Benedict XVI changed that doctrine also.
They also used to denounce Islam as a heresy and as impious, along with us Orthodox. Times change.
Ed Lee says
The Catholic church finally relented and forgave Galileo, in 1994, for saying that the earth was not the center of the universe! If it takes them a similar 350 years to admit their error regarding Islam, they probably will not be around to do it.
Malcolm (South Afric) says
If you knew the argument (Galileo), then you would realize he could no prove his theory at the time. Which was a toss up 50% one way 50% the other
This demonstrates what ignorance there is still to day, velocity was only proven more than a hundred years later.
Figure that one out.
If you understand science a thing, is certain only when demonstrated by fact, repeatedly.
You obviously do not believe in science.
gravenimage says
Malcolm, you are mistaken in believing it was not proven by science until 1994 that the sun does not revolve around the earth.
Also, even if one holds that Galileo had no proof of any of his theories and was just wildly guessing (something I do not agree with, but will not argue here), it would still not be necessary to violently persecute someone for expressing such opinions, as you seem to be implying.
Luckily, the Catholic Church does not do such things anymore–this was *never* a Christian thing to do.
Malcolm (South Afric) says
@ gravenimage
Think you have your years mixed up anyway and do not understand, what the issue is.
Certainty do not blame you as these are the myths that have been propagated
for years.
Have had many protestants concede to to their error.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wxddfx-qX1c&t=149s
Malcolm (South Afric) says
Thought that driving the point home, that the pseudo scientist and genius who are not Catholic, would enjoy an intellectual response to the Galileo myth which probably exist in the rabid mind for generations to come,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcmZ0iAoVpc
gravenimage says
Malcolm (South Afric) wrote:
@ gravenimage
Think you have your years mixed up anyway and do not understand, what the issue is.
………………………….
The year 1994–actually, 1992, I looked it up–was the year that the Catholic Church pardoned Galileo. I assure you, the fact that the earth revolves around the sun was proven *long* before this time, whatever you might believe.
More:
Certainty do not blame you as these are the myths that have been propagated for years.
Have had many protestants concede to to their error.
………………………….
What myths are those? The first video you post, the “Galileo Myth”, cites such points as his not having enough evidence (still questionable, but I will leave that aside), his not being diplomatic enough, and his using Italian rather than Latin. None of these points should have led the Catholic Church to their actions against him.
This monk claims that he deserved his persecution because he was “not a charmer”.
He might have been better at getting his points across had he been more diplomatic–or maybe not. The disturbing point is that this is being presented as apologia for this being imprisoned and threatened with torture and death.
Now, there was a great deal of ignorance and brutality at the time–it was hardly limited to the Catholic Church.
The disturbing thing is that that this Churchman is *defending this barbarism today*. I can only assume you are doing the same.
gravenimage says
And then I see you found *another* churchman to defend this barbarism, as well.
Even if Galileo’s ideas really had been nothing but a “hunch”, as he claims, the idea that this meant that the church imprisoning him and threatening him with torture and death is defensible is appalling.
His claim that peer-reviewed journals would do the same is false, too. They do no such thing.
Then he–like the monk in the previous video–claims that this persecution was justified because Galileo was not polite enough–that he was “mocking”. Do you believe that the church should be able to imprison and threaten people they simply find annoying?
Certainly, there have been religious people–including many Catholics–who have contributed greatly to science. But this shameful incident was *not one of them*.
That you appear to think it was is *deeply disturbing*.
Do you think the church should still be imprisoning and threatening to torture and kill scientists with insufficiently proven theories today?
For instance, I am not at all sure that man-caused climate change has been proven–does that mean that I want to see those promoting it imprisoned, tortured, and killed?
No, *I do not*.
What about you? Are there scientists whom you want to see persecuted?
There have, in fact, been many theories over the past several centuries that did not pan out–Lamarckian evolution, for one. Science would not have been served had he been imprisoned, tortured, or murdered–instead, his theories were simply disproven.
Persecution does not serve science, it does not serve morality, and it does not ultimately even serve the church.
Disturbing to find that you think otherwise.
Malcolm (South Afric) says
@ gravenimage
You are still mix up with dates, if you cannot get a simple detail correct how on earth could you go up one level and understand something that requires a little intelligence?
Officially it was The penitential act of John Paul ll on March the 12, 2000. The New York Times. is not the Catholic mouth piece.
Do I have confidence in your ability to know the difference between an apology and a penitential act, you can figure that one out.
Of course you would have known that both of Galileo,s daughters were religious sisters, and Galileo himself a loyal Catholic to the end.
Quite frankly you have not the ability to research fact, but I do admire your ability to try, no matter how small that contribution is.
gravenimage says
The Catholic Church finally pardoned Galileo in 1992–as I cited earlier–and admitted that he was right about the orbit of the earth around the sun:
“After 350 Years, Vatican Says Galileo Was Right: It Moves”
http://www.nytimes.com/1992/10/31/world/after-350-years-vatican-says-galileo-was-right-it-moves.html
As I have noted several times here, this was scientifically proven *long* before this.
Most troubling, though, it seems that you still believe that the church has the right to persecute those it disagrees with.
Thank God the Catholic Church *itself* no longer believes this.
Malcolm (South Afric) says
@gravenimage
The Church cannot pardon or apologize to anyone posthumously, that notion is ridiculous,
Besides this, the issue was not if Galileo was right or wrong, The Church did not take a stand either or as been said before the general belief was 50% either way.
The Church forbade Galileo to teach as fact, that which could not be proven,
As all scientist would agree, that the Church was right at the time as Galileo could not have had the evidence at that time to prove his theory,
This issue has been debunked thoroughly, yet there are those who still perpetuate this myth.
Carolyne says
Uh….Yes and the same group that said the sun stood still at some shrine in what was Yugoslavia. If the sun stood still, we’d all fall off the earth. But scientific truth doesn’t matter in such beliefs.
mortimer says
1400 years of Muslim persecution of Christians should be ADEQUATE for any Christian to realize that jihadists are acting upon CORE ISLAMIC DOCTRINES, rather than deviating from true Islam.
The jihadists almost always quote their scriptural authority in the Koran, hadiths and canonical commentaries for whatever ATROCITIES they commit in the name of Islam.
There is a perfect match in almost every case between the jihadists’ actions and the scriptural authorities that they cite.
The conclusion must be that the jihadists KNOW that Islam teaches the military subjugation of kafir-disbelievers ‘for the cause of Allah’.
LeftisruiningCanada says
‘1400 years of Muslim persecution of Christians should be ADEQUATE for any Christian to realize that jihadists are acting upon CORE ISLAMIC DOCTRINES, rather than deviating from true Islam. ”
Right. Where in history do we see the supposed ‘true’ islam ushering in centuries of peaceful coexistence, sadly punctuated by aberrant ‘extremist violence?
Sure seems to be the other way round to me.
gravenimage says
+1
Ciudadano says
According to the article Robert Spencer “attempts to convince all Americans that Islam is an inherently violent religion”. You don’t need Robert Spencer to convince you, just take a look at the facts and judge by yourself:
If that doesn’t make Islam inherently violent then nothing would.
Also the article tries to discredit Robert Spencer, however there other experts even from the Catholic Church itself, like Father Samir Khalil Samir, who have the same opinions than Spencer. For instance:
http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/father-samir-egypts-palm-sunday-terror-reflects-a-sickness-within-islam
PATRICIA FRANCES KOENIG says
Robert Spencer contradicts the “modern” Catholic teachings….because the “modern” Catholic teachings contradict the truth…as well as the “historical” Catholic Church doctrine. So the problem here is NOT Robert Spencer. The problem is the “modern” Catholic Church teachings and other “modern” Christian church teachings.
Wellington says
In short, Vatican II was a disaster and is still coming back to bite the Catholic Church in its collective butt. Francis I is but a “symptom” of this “cause.”
John XXIII erred greatly in calling for this ecumenical council which ended up spouting moral relativism, effectively destroyed the Latin Mass, and did virtually no good at all. Thus, John XXIII, beloved at the time, did just about the stupidest thing a person can do, i.e., he tired to fix something that wasn’t broken. So much for John XXIII.
Wellington says
“…’tried…” and not “tired”
Malcolm (South Afric) says
Hi Wellington
There was nothing definitive in Vat ll. I would say the disaster resided in the Western bishops taking advantage of the wording without taking consideration of what came before it, introducing novelties, taking the sacred and reducing it to a lower level, however those that understand the Mass can tolerate it.
Wellington says
Even if the case, Malcolm, I wonder if you agree with me that, all things considered, it would have been better had Vatican II never occurred.
Malcolm (South Afric) says
I would agree Wellington and it would be for the reason that Vat ll is a nothing burger, if one negates to consult the documentation from previous councils or the writings of the faith of the early Fathers.
Catholic teaching is deeply rooted in the Divinity of Jesus, so there can never be a recognition of Islam as been an authentic religion or mohammad a prophet of God.
This cannot and has not changed.
Vat II is helpful in forming a respectful approach to other non Christian religions keeping in mind that God created all people and loves all people, to seek the good in them and acknowledge it,,
St. Manuel II Palaiologos says
Vatican II is a heresy. It contradicts traditional Catholicism, it contradicts plain reason. It’s trash, Roman Catholics ought to fight against it’s rot.
Malcolm (South Afric) says
St. Manuel II Palaiologos
You probably never studied it, so do not be silly.
It is unlikely that you even have a copy of it
Carolyne says
Ms. Koenig, you are partially correct. Church teachings in themselves have no factual basis.
Jan III Sobieski says
“Swiss Parliament votes to ban foreign-funded mosques, Arabic preaching” glad there is some country resisting the Global Jihad to make all humanity Islamic.
Emilie Green says
When I see such nonsense, I’m reminded of Isaiah 5:20, ”
The RCC makes a big deal about the Apostolic Succession which, supposedly, gives a direct lineage of all the popes, including the current one, back to Peter. Following the model of Jesus Himself, those in this succession are to be shepherds of the flock leading flock members to the safety of the truth.
We’ve encountered a short circuit with Frankie.
St. Manuel II Palaiologos says
Too much Peter syndrome, not enough apostolic tradition.
Wellington says
It is quite arguable that Pope Francis I may end up proving to be the single greatest disaster, respecting a pontifex maximus, to ever befall the Roman Catholic Church.
Verdict still out but Francis is certainly a “contender” here, as are Benedict IX (a strange “case” if ever there were one in papal history), Gregory VII, Boniface VIII, more than one or two Avignonese popes, more than a few Renaissance pontiffs (Alexander VI still remains my “winner” here), and that special case which is Pius IX.
My God, this man, Francis, a Latin American leftist, is simply appalling, and what is just as bad, if not worse, is that he is appointing like-minded men as himself to the College of Cardinals. Mon Dieu!
And as an aside, the previous Pope, one Benedict XVI, a most impressive man, resigned over four and a half years ago because of bad health and yet he is still living. Hmmm. I’m just about the last one to ascribe to a conspiracy theory. Indeed, I am convinced that the vast majority of them are simply false. But I wonder here. I can’t help but to do so even though it is in my nature not to do so. What the hell is up?
St. Manuel II Palaiologos says
Why Gregory VII? My impression was that he tried to free the Church from the governmental/secular forces.
Not that I’m Roman Catholic, but that’s my understanding of Gregory.
Wellington says
Because in making the effort to free the Church from secular control (in itself understandable and defensible) Gregory VII (Hildebrand) arguably went too far in the other direction by claiming an all consuming supremacy over secular forces and thus is largely responsible for starting the feud between the papacy and the Holy Roman Emperor (and other monarchs like those of France and England) which eventually terribly weakened both Popes and Emperors (but not English and French kings, especially the latter) by the Late Middle Ages.
eduardo odraude says
Muhammad says there is to be no punishment for murdering someone who insults him
For example, in Sunan Abu-Dawud, a canonical hadith collection:
Book 38, Number 4348:
Another canonical hadith:
Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 39, Number 4349:
http://www.quotingislam.blogspot.com
gravenimage says
Yes–the “Prophet” regularly had his critics assassinated.
Benedict says
“the thrust of modern church teaching on Islam and Muslims.” –
— is an attempt to describe Islam and Muslims as they ought to be and hopefully will aspire to be in order to fit into the modern description and design invented by wishful, multicultural architects of the West, who don’t understand the nature of the evil they are up against. They are in for a rude awakening together with all those they have deceived.
Norger says
Yes, exactly. The church’s “teachings” about Islam are an intellectually dishonest, counterfactual description of what the church wants (needs?) Islam to be be, rather than an objective, unflinching assessment of what Islam actually teaches (i.e. what Robert Spencer does). The Catholic Church is worse than useless on this issue.
Mockingjay says
The day WILL come that EVERYONE on planet earth will understand how wrong it has been to EVER assume islam to be harmless, – or capable of good.
– But I am NOT looking forward to that day, as it will only come after TREMENDOUS bloodshed, destruction, and tragedy, – probably mainly on my beloved European soil.
The price to pay for the truth to be finally acknowledged by all will be unimaginable. Of that I am sure.
No – I am not looking forward to that day. But on that day, people will finally understand what terrible fools there were in positions of power in our day and age, – and history will NOT look upon them kindly.
Jim says
Yes, we disagree with leftist Catholics because (1) we can read, and (2) we actually have reading comprehension.
Carolyne says
And (3) Even though the Catholic Church did not condone it or wish it, the bible was translated into English and common people who could read (They didn’t like that either)) could read it for themselves. It is only quite recently that Catholic mass was spoken in the local vernacular. and Catholics could actually understand what was being said.
St. Manuel II Palaiologos says
Which is the truth. The Catholic Church has left it’s ancient and venerable traditions and history, and now it’s become a modernist, humanist system of social justice and activism.
Jim says
Not all cardinals, bishops or priests accept every thing Pope Francis has to say. Remember, he not to be trusted with who will win what race, or lottery, or game. A Pope is only infallible on Faith and Morals, and only when he sits in St Peter’s chair and declares infallibility. To my knowledge he has not done that with his curious public statements. The Catholic Church has not abandoned its moral teachings. There seem to attempts to change them, but nothing has changed so far, and the Holy Spirit won’t allow it to be changed — hasn’t in nearly 2000 years.
St. Manuel II Palaiologos says
No. But they’re all on board with the general zeitgeist that modernism in the Roman Church has been putting forward.
The Roman Church has changed several times, you’re just blind to all of the changes.
Carolyne says
But Jim, isn’t what the Pope is saying about Islam a “Moral” teaching, that we should welcome Muslims into our society?
eduardo odraude says
And the doctrine that the pope, on certain kinds of questions in certain circumstances, is infallible — isn’t that historically a fairly recent doctrine? Would be good to see a pope declare that doctrine wrong.
gravenimage says
Jim, you are right that not all Catholics–nor all Catholic clergy–accept this suicidal idiocy.
Michael Poulin says
What I see is that some Pope has an opinion, he writes an Encyclical, which everyone starts quoting as “Catholic teaching” when all it is is one man’s opinion. Pope Leo XIII writings on “Catholic Social teaching” were one such example; where , even in his own writing he claimed it was “an entirely new philosophy” unknown previously – and anyone who questioned it was just plain stupid. He planted spores of a mushroom that has grown by leaps and bounds far beyond what Jesus ever taught, and sometimes even contradicting what Jesus taught.
Popes can and do err in judgement and in interpretations, and they have biases and blind spots just like everyone else. Why Catholics think Popes and their little minions are oracles from God Almighty and cannot ever be questioned I haven’t figured out. The “power of the keys” was never intended to dictate things like minimum wages and interpretations of other religions. Popes are acting far beyond their pay grade. The Pope has absolutely no business teaching Catholics on Islam. He is no more qualified than a bag boy at a grocery store, and can’t even get Catholic doctrines right. Bergoglio totally fails to teach the gospel in favor of sucking up to the latest political fashion – and his sycophant bishops line up and regurgitate his swill to no end. I think most Catholics, and most people, are intellectually lazy have a natural human weakness where they would rather fit into the group than search for and defend the truth on their own. The collapse of the Catholic Church doctrine, structure and moral authority continues un-abated – with barely a whimper from the remaining laity (save for a small remnant of traditionals) – while the hierarchy congratulates itself on how cool they must appear whoring itself to the world.
Dapto says
This pope would have supported the Nazis in WW2
St. Manuel II Palaiologos says
The first concordat the Nazis signed was with the Vatican. It’s far from the first time the Vatican has supported Nazis.
Wellington says
The Vatican NEVER supported the Nazis. Many nations when Hitler came to power in January of 1933 kept diplomatic relations with Germany. The Vatican was just following standard procedure here without supporting Nazism whatsoever (and after all, the Vatican did have to worry about Catholic priests and nuns in Germany and thousands of parishes).
Indeed, Pius XI’s Encyclical, Mit Brennender Sorge, a scathing denunciation of Nazism, was timed to be read from every Catholic pulpit on the same day in 1937 (and which infuriated Hitler). Moreover, Pius XII, working behind the scenes, saved more Jews (about 800,000) than any other person in history, non-Jewish or Jewish, and he too publicly denounced Nazism (e.g., his Christmas message of 1942 which also infuriated Hitler), though he had to be very careful because Mussolini’s Italy was aligned with Nazi Germany
It just won’t do to assert what you did. It’s a calumny of the first order. Facts matter though we live in an increasingly foolish and ignorant age where they don’t.
BTW, I am not religious in the least but the truth is the truth. This is why I wrote what I did to you.
gravenimage says
All true, Wellington. Moreover, the Catholic Church was able to save many Jews from the Holocaust.
Kepha says
If Peter was the first Pope, he was still rebuked by Paul (see the letter to the Galatians). I guess we just have one more, out of many, erring Poopes.
From what I saw of the article, it seems these liberal RC’s are a tad bit nicer to Mr. Spencer than his usual critics!
In any case I’m of the mind that Jesus Christ is the savior, not the church.
Steve's nephew says
Instead of apologizing for Muslim behavior, the Pope should be teaching to them of the grace and love of Christ. The Muslims need to know that God is love, not hatred. God is kind and he is tolerant of our human imperfections. The Christian God has a higher view of mankind than the Muslim God.
le mouron rouge says
Steve’s nephew says
November 7, 2017 at 8:58 pm
“The Christian God has a higher view of mankind than the Muslim God.”
*****************************
Who is the Muslim God?
Muslim’s use the phrase, “Allahu Akbar” translated “Allah is greater or Allah is (the) greatest.”
Is it possible that their god is Lucifer?
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isaiah 14:12-14
Sure sounds like the Muslim chant, “Allah is greater or Allah is (the) greatest.”
Lydia says
Because ‘modern church teaching’ is wrong!
Don’t trust any church’s teaching right now.
I have seen how things have changed since the turn of the century.
This is the age of apostasy in the church.
If you want to know the Christian standpoint, read the Bible.
And pray for the Holy Spirit to lead you.
Tricia Stuercke says
I AM SO RELIEVED & REJUVENATED BY THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH BRILLIANTLY STATED & DEFENDED BY MANY OF THE EARLIER POSTS! I’VE BEEN SO TROUBLED BY THIS “POPE” & HIS SHRINKING BUT POWERFUL GROUP OF SUPPORTERS..
HE SPEAKS HERETICALLY WITH SHOCKING REGULARITY & GALLING SUPERIORITY! I WAS NEVER REMOTELY COMFORTABLE WITH THE “DOCTRINE OF INFALLIBILITY” ~ THOUGH IT ONLY APPLIES TO MATTERS OF THEOLOGY, THIS GUY HAS PREACHED INCORRECT THEOLOGY MULTIPLE TIMES, & CONSTANTLY FAILS TO SPEAK “IN PERSONA CRISTI” (IN THE PERSON OF CHRIST), GIVING HIS PERSONAL THEOLOGICAL PREFERENCE & OPINION, RATHER THAN THE ACTUAL, 2000 YR OLD TEACHINGS OF CHRIST!
I HIGHLY RECOMMEND THE WORK OF EWTN’S RAYMOND ARROYO (EWTN.COM). ON “THE WORLD OVER”, FEATURING HIS “PAPAL POSSE”. THEY ARE A GODSEND… THOROUGHLY, THEOLOGICALLY ON TOP OF THE ISSUE & WELL WORTH YOUR TIME!
4 POINTS TO PONDER:
~ 9/19/16, A GROUP OF 4 CARDINALS FORMALLY ADDRESSED FRANCIS REGARDING SERIOUS MORAL & DOCTRINAL CONCERNS STEMMING FROM HIS “AMORIS LAETICIA” DOCUMENT. THEIR “DUBIA” (MEANING DOUBTS, 5 DIRECT QUESTIONS), NOW OVER 1 YR LATER, STILL HASN’T BEEN RESPONDED TO.
~ 7/16/17, A GROUP OF 62 PRIESTS & LAY PEOPLE FILED AN OFFICIAL “FILIAL CORRECTION”, A 25 PAGE LETTER FORMALLY ACCUSING FRANCIS OF “PROPAGATING HERESIES” CONCERNING MARRIAGE, MORALS, & THE RECEPTION OF SACRAMENTS. IT BEGINS, “WITH PROFOUND GRIEF…”. THIS IS THOUGHT TO BE THE 1ST FILING OF A FORMAL “FILIAL CORRECTION” OF A POPE SINCE THE MIDDLE AGES.
~ REPORTS ARE INCREASING IN FREQUENCY & SEVERITY OF FRANCIS BEING DISTURBINGLY RETALIATORY & ENGAGING OFTEN IN PUBLIC “SHAMING” OF PEOPLE WHO DARE TO DISAGREE WITH HIM (SHOCKING, PARTICULARLY COMING FROM A MAN WHO REGULARLY ENJOYS “OUT-CHRISTIANING” FELLOW CHRISTIANS, ESPECIALLY CATHOLICS, IN PUBLIC SPEECH & ACTS.
~ FINALLY: ALL OF THIS IS IN THE HANDS OF THE FATHER, THE SON, & THE HOLY SPIRIT. THE ONLY THING JESUS TRULY ASSURES US OF IS IF WE WANT TO FOLLOW HIM, WE BETTER PICK UP OUR CROSS…WE ARE WARNED THROUGHOUT BIBLICAL PROPHECY OF WHAT WILL COME IN THE END TIMES. RECENT PURPORTED MESSAGES BEING RECEIVED IN ARGENTINA WILL MAKE YOU FALL TO YOUR KNEES ~ SOMETIMES GOD BRINGS YOU TO YOUR KNEES TO REMIND YOU WHAT YOU’RE THERE FOR! MUCH LOVE!
(WWW.REVELACIONESMARIANAS.COM, SELECT TRANSLATE ON DEVICE)
Relic says
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKopy74weus
John Forbes says
THE CATHOLIC CHURCH CLERGY MUST BE TERRIFIED OF OFFENDING THE FOLLOWERS OF THE IDEOLOGY MASQUERADING AS A RELIGION OF SOMETHING BUT CERTAINLY – NOT PEACE UNLESS YOU ARE A MUSLIM !
HOW CAN THIS LOT BE SO DELUDED ?? THEY WERE A BIG PART OF THE SPANISH /FRENCH /POLISH EFFORT TO RID CHRISTENDOM OF THE MOORS !
THIS POPE NEEDS TO BE THROTTLED !! OR POISONED LIKE THE OLD VENETIANS USED TO !
WHATEVER WAY – GET RID OF THIS NON CHRISTIAN POPE !!
Lloyd Miller says
Focus please on Alwaleed’s contributions to Georgetown.
Today’s intellectual, church and political leaders simple do and say what they are told by Muslim megabuck donors.
Arguing with them is futile. Show them to be bought and paid for. . . .
Midnite Rider says
“Two things are unlimited,the universe and human stupidity and I have my doubts about the universe”
Einstein
Begonejihadi says
In fact the Catholic church teaching on Islam is wrong. Islamic Jihad is evil and Islam mandates Muslim to wage war against all kind of infidels.
Tricia Stuercke says
That’s NOT Church teaching. Countless theological works have been written about what Islam did to Christianity…good, properly educated Catholics know, & have learned from, the history. The Crusades were DEFENSIVE, NOT OFFENSIVE… WITHOUT THOSE ACTIONS, ALL EUROPE WOULD BE MUSLIM! A SEGMENT OF ISLAM IS RECREATING THE MUSLIM GLORY DAYS, & THIS “POPE” HAS THE SAME “DISEASE” OBAMA & OUR HARD LEFTIES HAVE. POPE” FRANCIS IS ONE OF A SHRINKING (DYING OFF) GROUP OF LIBERALS THAT SADLY PULLED OFF HIS PAPACY. SHOCKED MANY OF US. HE’S FINALLY BEING CONFRONTED BY PRIESTS, BISHOPS, CARDINALS, & LAY PEOPLE & WAS RECENTLY FORMALLY PRESENTED A “FILIAL CORRECTION” CHARGING HIM WITH “MORAL & DOCTRINAL HERESIES”, 1ST SINCE MIDDLE AGES! PROPHECIES ABOUND OF COMING DESTRUCTION OF “VATICAN” PORTION/MINDSET OF THE CHURCH IN END TIMES. JUST REMEMBER: GOD’S GOT THIS! Jesus assured us, “You are Peter (rock), and on this rock I will build My Church, and the Gates of Hades shall not prevail against it!”. We may end up back to House Church level again, but in the end, JESUS WINS, THUS WE WIN!
gravenimage says
Yes–the Catholic Church stood staunchly against Islam for centuries.
patriotliz says
No LINK! I couldn’t find a recent link to any recent article about Islam @commonwealmag on twitter or their website https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/
It appears that Commonweal mag is run by SJW who have hijacked Catholic Church and are devoted more to communist propaganda of the Dorothy Day variety of liberation theology than to Catholicism and truth.
Robert…please supply the link.
gravenimage says
This is Robert Spencer’s opinion, which I share. There are plenty of examples if you read this publication, but there is no one link.
Abbisid says
It’s sad to see Christians take love your neighbor to the level of self destruction. As a RC the current Pope is a disaster, unfortunately this has happened a number of times in the churches history, but it has survived. The frustrating thing with Pope Francis is he does not care to research, the Vatican has an extensive library, I bet and all the facts are there from the past to today, his advisors are as much to blame as well, as they lose course on the real teaching of Jesus. “Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil”
gravenimage says
+1
Carolyne says
When one believe that a Supreme being is one’s advisor, anything written or said by man is irrelevant.
gravenimage says
Leftist Catholic mag: Robert Spencer “disagrees with the thrust of modern church teaching on Islam and Muslims”
…………………………
If by that they mean that Robert Spencer disagrees with pretending that Islam is peaceful and compatible with the values of Christianity, then they are right. Bless Robert Spencer for speaking the truth!
Carlos Danger says
Several Medieval popes were content to sit back and watch the Turks gobble up the remnants of the Byzantine Empire rather than come to an accommodation with Orthodox Christians.
gravenimage says
We should not make the same mistake now–we should *all* stand against the threat of Islam.
UNCLE VLADDI says
“Modern” church teachings? They must mean “revisionist lies!”
Because nobody recently re-wrote the Qur’an, that I’d heard of!