Today the truth is stigmatized. It is “controversial.” But ultimately Finnish authorities, like authorities all over the West, are on a fool’s errand. They can’t suppress reality forever. Before too long it will be abundantly clear to everyone.
“Finland: Police investigate gay politician once again for posting about Islam…….,” by KGS, Tundra Tabloids, January 10, 2018 (thanks to The Religion of Peace):
Sebastian Tynkkynen (FB) is a Finnish politician who has been at the forefront in creating awareness about Islamization in Finland.
He had been investigated earlier by a heavily politicized Finnish police department over his Facebook postings in August of 2016, and went to trial almost exactly a year ago today, and was eventually found guilty of ”hate speech”. Today, Sebastian asks the same question concerning this investigation as he did in his closing statements at his trial: “How else can one write about Islam…….?”
The text simply reads: “Terrorism knows no religion. If you don’t count Islam”
What the Finnish judicial system and the police are doing, can accurately be described as prosecuting political speech. As I have often stated before, Muslims by default belong to a political party, called Islam. It’s not of our making, our choice nor fault. Islam is what it is. It’s an entire society and/or civilization with its rules and laws that govern every aspect of human life, even that of non-believers.
Criticizing that ideology and the followers who champion its all encompassing mandate, is by default political speech, and it’s that speech that needs protection, not prosecution. In 2015 Jyllands-Posten’s former editor Flemming Rose gave a wonderful speech at Helsinki University concerning the ever growing restrictions we face here in Europe on free speech. Truth is no longer being considered a valid defense of one’s own speech and thoughts if it runs counter to political policies accepted by the ruling (consensus driven) elite….
JawsV says
Europe has taken an utter leave of it’s senses. Except for the Eastern European countries.
mortimer says
Agree. It is absurd that a gay man may not PROTEST the murder of gay people under discriminatory Sharia law!
Islam is the MOST ILLIBERAL ideology today. It is a BRONZE-AGE ideology.
The ABSURDIST thing is that people who claim to be ‘liberal’ are actually PROMOTING Bronze-Age ISLAM with all its Jew hatred, homo-hatred, kafir hatred and misogyny.
Liberalism is incompatible with Islam.
bonnie louise loranger says
Mortimer, I agree with you. But do you think we still have free speech in America?
gravenimage says
There are more strictures all the time, no doubt–but speech is still freer in the United States than it is in most places, thanks to the First Amendment.
Lydia Church says
They need to have their own heads examined first.
StellaSaidSo says
When truth is no longer a defence, there is no defence, and therefore no free speech. And therefore NO FREEDOM
Which is exactly what Islam and its socialist/globalist enablers want.
This fight belongs to all of us.
Bravo, and thankyou, Mr Tynkkynen, for your refusal to be silent.
mortimer says
Agree with Stella. “If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.” – George Washington
Freedom of speech means the freedom to OFFEND someone.
Laura says
No-one has the right not to be offended,unless he is a muslim!
bonnie louise loranger says
I agree with you but I think Freedom of speech in the U SA is been eroded. This is what happened to me at the YMCA Royal OAK MI. And I was also called a RACIST.
My experience in this place was terrible. I was evicted and accused of racism by the manager Chis King and Patricia Devida a member.I told Mrs Devida, whom I thought was a friend, a story about an Oral surgeon. He kicked me out of his office because I did not want to be touch by his Muslim helper ,which is my right as a patient. She went to the manager and told him I was a racist. The manager believed her and told me I was kicked of of the YMCA and all the YMCA in Michigan.I told him that Islam is not a race and I cannot be a racist. To not avail he terminated my membership. Mrs Devida is now killing my reputation at the YMCA by talking to my friends. How can she act like this without impunity.It was an opinion and she and Chris trampled all over my freedom of speech.
How can a situation like this be tolerated in a Christian organization. The mission statement should be revised and replaced by A FASCIST ORGANIZATION. If anyone who reads this wants more details on this story I would love to enlighten them. I also worked as a volunteer teaching French for two years. I never was thanked for this.
Chris and Devida should be terminated.
bonnieloranger@gmail.com
gravenimage says
So sorry to hear this.
TheBuffster says
Bonnie, since the YMCA is not a government organization they do and should have the right to form their own policies regarding who they admit and who they don’t, even if those policies are mistaken or stupid. That doesn’t trample on your free speech as long as the *government* hasn’t made your speech illegal and can’t prosecute you, fine you, jail you or kill you for your speech.
You have the right to not entrust yourself to a Muslim, given what you know about Islam and in my opinion your friend should have just told you her opinion of your rejection of a Muslim medical assistant and let it go at that. But perhaps the worry was that if you’re going to represent the Y as a volunteer and you would reject or mistreat a Muslim who came in for some reason (do Muslims ever come in to the Young Men’s Christian Association?) that it would reflect badly on the YMCA.
But the Irony is that a Young Men’s Islamic Association is not likely to treat a member who refuses to be medically treated by, say, a Jew, with the same rejection as you received from these Christians.
In the past my husband and I have had some good experiences with secular type Muslims who have done good work for us in our home and my husband also consulted with a lawyer who turned out to be Muslim – a young woman who came from Bangladesh and who was a “Mrs. Bangladesh” contestant and now is an activist fighting for women’s rights. But as the jihad has stepped up in the West, we have become more wary of even those who present themselves as secular. This is only natural if a person has a sense of self-preservation.
It is Islam and those Muslims who take it seriously enough to join the jihad that are putting non-Muslims and the more rational and humane “Muslims” in this difficult position. If one could read minds the situation would be so much easier. But, alas…
This is why, more than ever, people – both non-Muslims and mild Muslims – need to educate themselves on the religion and back away from it. But it’s neither an easy task to do that study nor to convince others to do it.
If you avoid dealing with Muslims, it’s best that you don’t chat about it with people who aren’t clued in about Islam and the jihad. Stick with talking about Islam, its nature, what it requires of Muslims, as well as the fact that not all Muslims are devoted or serious or have even bothered to study their texts. Encourage people to read the Koran for themselves. Acknowledge that not all who think of themselves as Muslims would be considered worthy Muslims by the words of the Koran itself. But you can also point out that these Muslims are in a difficult position because their religion condemns and aims to conquer non-believers the world over, and the intended victims of this religion have every right to be cautious and jittery around those who claim to accept such a religion.
It’s impossible to know which Muslims can be trusted (yes, some can be, some are truly good people, but unless you can get into someone’s head it not so easy to be sure of who’s who). Obviously, apostates from Islam were once Muslims whose own personal sense of right and wrong and reason eventually lead them away from the religion. Many times apostates are people who had a mistaken, more benevolent view of the nature of Islam and Muhammad, and they become disenchanted when they finally read the whole Koran and/or dip into the “reliable” ahadith.
If you, yourself, have a well-researched knowledge of both the doctrine of Islam and of the complicated and sticky situation many Muslim people are in and can communicate this information to others, you’ll find that most people are more receptive to the truth you have to offer. If you aim for the whole truth and nothing but the truth, if you offer your information patiently and with a nuanced understanding of the big picture, people are more likely to listen and less likely to get all self-righteous in-your-face.
We’re in a war of ideas. If the aim is to win the war, we have to approach people in a way that keeps them open to looking at difficult to swallow truths. It’s actually *easier* to swallow the whole truth about Islam and Muslims, even if it is big and complex, than it is to swallow the bitter part of the truth that just tastes like poisonous hatred.
By the way, I highly recommend listening to and reading the books and blogs of ex-Muslims in order to get a full and accurate picture of the human aspects of the life of Muslims, both the devoted kind and the other kinds, and how various former Muslims used to think as Muslims and what brought them to leave the religion. I’ve found it to be very helpful in many ways to have lots of knowledge in this area.
Guy Forester says
Truth and facts are two items that most governments do not want.
Karen says
Right on.
jack cade says
Note to people in protected classes; the relative importance of your class may change due to shifting political winds.
Seth says
Are the Finnish finished?
Risto Kantonen says
Not by a long shot. We’re a pretty damn resilient population. No one should mistake the quietness of Finns for ignorance, our calmness for acceptance or our kindness for a weakness. The number of people who are publicly resisting this madness is growing fast, and if the judiciary punishes Sebastian again, it’ll only further fuel the growth of the population’s will to resist this.
There’s a silent majority who do not accept what is going on, and if the government refuses to take effective steps to stop the Hijra influx to Finland, they will soon face a large body of calm and determined civil disobedience. Say, if the logistics workers collectively decided to go on a strike, the government would have little choice but to change their course.
For now, it’s best to just continue sharing situational awareness data among the population and monitor what the ignoramuses in our governing bodies and media do.
gravenimage says
Muslims there still make up just .01% of the population. But considering what is going on in neighboring Sweden, that could change. I hope it doesn’t.
Risto Kantonen says
That won’t happen. The Finnish population simply won’t allow it, there’s already considerable resistance to this madness and the government can’t risk another 2015. Our current President has demonstrably stated that, so the government knows it. Seconly, if these threat elements attempt to flow into Finland in large numbers, we have a sizeable military force that can secure our borders. War time strength of the Finnish Defence Forces is 280 000 soldiers and we have a reserve of 900 000 soldiers.
The Finnish Defence Forces is also working in a determined fashion to change the configuration of the FDF capabilities towards faster response. One practical example of this is the fact that FDF started training national readiness units in January 2017. FDF posted a short introductory video of that on their Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqnvj7w8Nis
Among the European populations, we Finns also have one of the highest, if not the highest willingness to defend our country. This is measured every year and the statistics on that can be viewed here: http://findikaattori.fi/en/77
Simply put, if these Islamic threat elements have any sense in their head, they will steer clear of Finland.
gravenimage says
I hope you are right, Risto.
Save Europe says
+1
mortimer says
“TURHIBUNNA” (terrorize them) – Koran 8.60
Sebastian Tynkkynen wrote: “Terrorism knows no religion. If you don’t count Islam”.
Terrorism is part of jihad and jihad is the most important action in Islam, more important than prayer. Terrorism is thus normative Islam, rather than an aberration. Jihad is an USUL UD-DEEN (an essential doctrine) of Islam incumbent on all Muslims.
A Muslim who does not CONDUCT JIHAD (terrorism) will be refused admission to ISLAMIC PORNO-PARADISE.
(Islam is absurd.)
mortimer says
KGS, Tundra Tabloids wrote: “As I have often stated before, MUSLIMS BY DEFAULT BELONG TO A POLITICAL PARTY, called Islam. It’s not of our making, our choice nor fault. Islam is what it is.”
KGS has just written one of the most accurate, explanatory statements here above.
This is the message we must communicate to our society: “ISLAM IS A POLITICAL IDEOLOGY more than it is a religion.”
bonnie louise loranger says
I agree but lots of people do not believe that. Then you are called a racist, a bigot and an islamophobe.
Terry Gain says
No ideology is above criticism. An ideology that attempts to criminalize criticism is an ideology that needs to be criticized continually until it changes its position on free speech, or is mocked out of existence.
mortimer says
Agree. The ‘ideology’ is TOTALITARIANISM… theocratic totalitarianism as in Iran and Soddy Barbaria.
Westman says
Why is the New Liberalism so much like the old Communism?
LeftisruiningCanada says
Ironically, they simply rebranded an old product to make it more marketable.
Garfield says
Its been the same since the Frankfort school folks took over our universities. “Liberals” always seem like wannabe dictators thinly veiled by a superiority/rescue complex… and why are they always so miserable!?
Walter Sieruk says
Whoever might criticize Islam , gay or straight, it doesn’t really matter who The rule is that Islam should never be criticized , regardless of how mild the criticism may be
The real reason for this rule is that Islam is ,in essence , such a weal a fragile religion that it can’t hold up to or stand up to the scrutiny of criticism of any kind. For under the strong light of criticism the religion of Islam ,along with its Five Pillars , will collapse.
LeftisruiningCanada says
yes. tyrants can never tolerate being questioned.
greyhound fancier says
It’s the pusillanimity of the “leaders”. They are afraid of the 7th century throwbacks.
Save Europe says
Completely true. It’s so thin skinned and insecure an ideology.
Wellington says
Western Europe has turned into an Orwellian Purgatory and is fast moving into an Orwellian Hell.
1984 coming to 2034 UNLESS a huge reversal occurs which reversal would necessitate at least two things: 1) getting rid of the entirely bogus distinction between free speech and hate speech because as long as this distinction remains free speech is essentially non-existent; 2) once and for all, and very publicly, place Islam among the most terrible totalitarian ideologies of all time, others being Marxism and Nazism, with the only difference being that Islam hides behind a religious veil.
If these two “developments” don’t occur then nothing else good will, for instance cessation of further Muslim immigration to Western Europe and an overwhelming active encouragement, with financial incentive, for Muslim immigrants already in the West to leave and go back to their Muslim country of origin (or some other Muslim-majority nation).
Western Europe right now is dying, and one knows this of should know it, because of a combination of political correctness, multiculturalism (N.B., only the West is multicultural) and Islam.
gravenimage says
Grimly true, Wellington. People like Sebastian Tynkkynen give one hope, but their being immediately persecuted for telling the least, most obvious truth about Islam is alarming.
jewdog says
Western Europe should not be in NATO. We should not be defending those countries that do not have freedom of speech and are not willing to defend themselves. NATO is an anachronism and should be restructured to defend against the Global Jihad and threats to Eastern Europe.
Save Europe says
Quite frankly, Turkey shouldn’t be in NATO. Full stop. That’s more my concern.
CT says
And conservative Christians don’t have doctrinal teachings that we’re supposed to execute those caught in homosexual acts, while the Islamic hadith say very clearly to do that. Just awful to have that as doctrine.
gravenimage says
+1
Wellington says
+2
Karen says
+3. Christians commit acts of violence – but, they will find no justification for those acts in the Bible.
MFritz says
Imagine Finland as a smaller version of Sweden – loads of social issues swept under the rug, feminists for WAY too long in power and all political parties corrupted by globalists.
Which means the “breeders” have to stay – and new ones have to come – and criticising their intolerant ideology has to be prosecuted as a crime.
And even being gay doesn’t “protect” you anymore against this mindset – not anymore. Not since feminism has declared war on ALL white men.
Risto Kantonen says
Yes and no. About the fact that social issues have been swept under the rug, you’re right. But then there are significant differences, such as:
1) When Sweden and other European countries chose to ramp down their defence forces and militaries, Finland didn’t. The reported total strength of Sweden’s Defence Forces is 46 600,(civil workers not included)[1]. For Finland it’s 280 000 war time troops[2] and 900 000 reserve.[3]
2) Finns have a very different culture. In Sweden everything is discussed to death due to the very strong consensus culture, in Finland we have more of a no-nonsense decision making culture. Sometimes referred to as management by perkele. On top of that, Swedish people tend to be more submissive than Finns. This enables Finns to be more willing to say honestly and openly what they think. The differences in mindset also means that Finns tend to be more decisive and calm if we need to use force. This is because of sisu, which is an action mindset common in Finns, but which Swedish people lack.
Sources:
1 https://www.forsvarsmakten.se/sv/information-och-fakta/forsvarsmakten-i-siffror/
2 https://defmin.fi/en/publications/the_governments_defence_report_2017 page 21
3 http://puolustusvoimat.fi/web/reservilaiselle/etusivu
MFritz says
Thank you for the comment! Yes, it’s NEVER that easy.
1. Alas, Finland’s army isn’t that much of an issue. Only those leading and commanding it will be if they’re the same ilk as those in Sweden. And I wouldn’t trust any of your politicians in the government – or any of the generals he puts in charge – these days.
2. Discussion culture… the Swedes were also great in coming together to find compromises. (Well, maybe with less drinking and laughing. And playing loud music. All night long.)
Unfortunately, even Finland has been poisoned by political correctness and toxic feminism. So while there still may be a discussion culture around, those arguing to keep both eyes shut towards migrants abusing the social state and islamic issues are – more and more – the ONLY voices being heard. And those critisising are being criminalised. More and more.
And I don’t think it will get any better soon. Finland just hasn’t reached the (boiling) point yet.
WorkingClassPost says
Strange how so few years ago, being gay was such a big thing, and how gracious our liberal society thought it was by ‘allowing’ them to come out of hiding.
Now it’s truth tellers who are expected to hide and keep their views safely closeted or risk jail and almost societal opprobrium.
Garfield says
Anyone read a book called After the Ball?
lebel says
He called for the forced deportation of all Muslims who are non-citizens. So clearly its “criticism of Islam” and not aimed at Muslims….
http://tundratabloids.com/2016/08/finland-finn-party-youth-leader-tynkkynen-investigated-by-police-for-speaking-mind-on-islam-and-muslims-on-facebook/
At this point, he would be a “moderate” on jihadwatch.
WorkingClassPost says
Can’t find anything about “the forced deportation of all Muslims who are non-citizens” on that link…
lebel says
“Last month the youth politician called for all Muslims without Finnish citizenship to be deported to their countries of origin. Police say they received the complaint arrived in late July.”
LeftisruiningCanada says
What’s wrong with that? He seems to mean the illegals, as mentioned here a year ago:
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2017/01/finland-gay-man-on-trial-for-warning-about-islam-on-facebook#comment-1593307
lebel says
@LeftisruiningCanada
No he does not seem to mean the illegals. Its easy to say it when you mean the illegals, you say “I want all illegals deported”
In the link you provide it says “Along with the Facebook postings Tynkkynen calls for the eradication of Islam from Finland, as well as the removal of Islamic people from the country based on their religion.”
I’m guessing to you this means that he in fact calling for immigrant law breakers to leave the country right?
LeftisruiningCanada says
Congratulations on only quoting the bit that triggered you.
Below that, the Finnish commenter said:
What you are saying above is the prosecutor’s interpretation, which Tynkkynen refuted in his trial and explained that those illegally staying should be deported.
Tynkkynen also explained in his trial that he sees islam as religio-political system which does not fit into Western concept of religion. It is this islam that he wants to eradicate and he stated that he does not mean all muslims.
I’m getting the impression that only the harshest reading of people you disagree with will do.
But again i ask, “what is wrong with that’?
WorkingClassPost says
OK, I see what you’re getting at, but when you say “forced deportation” you imply Gestapo type rounding up of innocents, but Finland has a legal process and there is no suggestion that anyone would be taken from their homes at gunpoint.
Personally I agree that singling muslims out for deportation is not the way to go, but what are the alternatives when so many lives are at stake?
LeftisruiningCanada says
Yes WCP, it is highly unpleasant there’s no doubt about it. But there’s no stable middle ground with many of the muslims that, for example, have taken over areas of London in the UK (or Dewsbury, or Luton). They will not stop pushing until they have their desired society, whatever that might be.
What do you do when it’s like that?
This guy in Finland is probably feeling the same way.
There’s no moral superiority in standing by and letting people ruin your fine and decent country.
gravenimage says
lebel is implying that Sebastian Tynkkynen should be fine with Muslim violence against gay people and other Infidels in Finland, or else he is a very, very bad person. Bad, bad dhimmi…
Phil Wilson says
Well, if there was any doubt regarding the proposition that Islamists are currently more equal than gay men in the leftist caste system…
Buraq says
The strategy to attack Islam’s ideology and teachings will have to change to get around the clampdown on free speech that is surely coming.
I believe that posing questions that raise doubts in anyone’s mind is the way forward. For example: Islam is perfect because it comes from a perfect source, Allah, right? So, if any Muslim can have his/her own version of Islam – as that clown Reza Aslan says – can there be 1.7 billion different versions of perfection? Can there be different versions of 100%?
Or: Allah says in Al Qur’an that ‘there is no compulsion in religion’, right? But in a hadith, Mohamed said that anyone leaving Islam should be killed. There seems to be a fundamental disagreement between Allah and his chosen prophet about freedom of religion. (Leave it to a Muslim to explain ‘abrogation’!)
Look puzzled and shrug your shoulders.
We will soon have to *suggest* there are inconsistencies and problems with Islam by asking leading questions, instead of stating the truth and the obvious.
gravenimage says
Buraq, Sebastian Tynkkynen’s statement was about as subtle as you could get, and he is nonetheless suffering state harassment.
If enough people tell the truth, though, unfree countries will be unable to persecute them all.
Aarne Bittner says
I see it as a breakthrou that finaly some gay people wake up, and speak out about what this mohammedan Invasion means.
In Germany still 99% of the gay community is Pro-Islam.
gravenimage says
Yes–I have a couple of gay friends who understand the threat of Islam, but they are in the minority. Milo Yiannopoulos, of course, is a staunch Anti-Jihadist.
eduardo odraude says
And Douglas Murray is a brilliant critic of Europe’s current policies with respect to Islamic immigration. His The Strange Death of Europe is an excellent read, not just a lot of facts but also great writing and narrative.
And of course there’s also the brilliant Bruce Bawer’s several books warning about the loss of freedom in Europe. And his novel, The Alhambra, available on Amazon.
And of course there was Pim Fortuyn.
Europeans! You need a First Amendment!
gravenimage says
Thanks for mentioning Bruce Bawer and Pim Fortuyn, Eduardo.
And I had not realized that Douglas Murray was gay. Thanks again.
Karen says
When I want to be dazzled by blazing intelligence and the power of the spoken word, I spend the evening watching Douglas Murray videos.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Yes, he is quite good isn’t he.
Douglas the Imperturbable.
LR says
Douglas Murray is so pithy, and fun to listen to. He’s so much fun when he insults someone’s intelligence with that fine British accent.
gravenimage says
Thanks.
DHazard says
What motivates people to enact and enforce “hate speech” laws? Guilt and good intentions are not enough to warrant levying a fine or imprisoning people for just stating their opinion. Maybe they just want to try and keep things with Muslims quiet. They know how much of a headache they can cause, not to mention the mass murder, so they just want to keep a lid on the criticism. Unfortunately that’s exactly what the terrorists and Islamists want; a compliant host country. They will abuse the gift of freedom they have been given, along with housing, food and spending money while whining about their feelings and rejecting all personal responsibility for the sorry state they and Muslim countries find themselves in.
Where you have the citizens afraid to say anything that might be seen by some emotional bureaucrat as offensive, you as an Islamist have now prepared the body of Europe for it’s inevitable burial. And you have taken away from these good people their most effective weapon, the one that Islam cannot counter, rational, honest speech.
Just line up and give them the gun. If you can’t tell the truth about Islam then you, or your children, are dead. Your entire culture is gone, to be replaced by an intrusive, life threatening load of crap. European liberals would like to force all non-Muslims to bow down to both them and Muslims for no good reason.
Just common decency has been relegated to hate speech if Islam is involved. So criticizing Islam is the same as criticizing Muslims, and those critical words are just as bad as the whole host of human rights abuses, violence and murder that come pre-packaged with Islam.
The lesson: don’t give stupid people power over your life.
Matthieu Baudin says
Finns didn’t fight the Winter War against Soviet Totalitarianism and thereby safeguard their national sovereignty and pride only to become weak willed masters of censorship when faced with the emerging spectre of Jihadist Totalitarianism.
gravenimage says
I sure hope not, Matthieu.
Charlie Martel says
Well I hope he is appealing all travesty that comes his way.
6woods says
Kudos to him. Most gay people see muslims as just another persecuted group, as they imagine themselves to be, which is absolutely not the case here in Canada. I have a gay niece who just looooves Justin Trudeau. The irony!
Flavius Claudius Iulianus says
https://www.rt.com/news/415656-sharia-police-germany-aquittal-overturned/
CRUSADER says
Swedes would joke that Sweden defends itself by fighting to the last Finn….
but if the Finns fall apart, there is no defense left for Sweden….
Norway needs to keep the defensive front, by circling the wagons….along the arctic….
Jokuvaan says
Technically that statement is not correct as there has been also some non-Islamic religious terror.
A better statement would be:
Not all muslims are jihadis nyt all jihadis are muslim.
gravenimage says
The vast majority of terror attacks worldwide are carried out by Muslims.
Love Liberty says
Join a political party or organisation that supports free speech.
If you don’t join, give money.
If in the UK check http://www.ForBritain.uk which is a new political party dedicated to free speech and opposing both ‘social justice’ (postmodernist-Marxism) and political Islam
StellaSaidSo says
Excellent advice. Anne Marie Waters, founder of SHARIA WATCH UK, is very articulate, and very well-informed. FOR BRITAIN may well be Britain’s last best hope. I recommend viewing her videos on YouTube.
John says
Finland and Europe in general has become too politicaly correct and just plain STUPID……
216-526-6185
lebel says
@WorkingClassPost
I think we can get rid of the extremists without deporting everyone who happens to have been born a Muslim. In fact I am sure we can. Thanks
terry says
@lebel says,
“I think we can get rid of the extremists without deporting everyone who happens to have been born a Muslim.”
Islam is extreme on it’s face, there is no such thing as a moderate islam.
StellaSaidSo says
Exactly. As the appalling but refreshingly honest Mr Erdogan said.
StellaSaidSo says
If your first loyalty is to Islam, you don’t belong in a civilised society, and should go live in an Islamic country.
If you are willing to renounce the vile ideology completely, and fully join the civilised world, then you are welcome.
It isn’t complicated.
lebel says
Right so deport all Muslims, just what I have been saying is advocated here.
Gravenimage will be along shortly to explain why you are only talking about “potential terrorists” and not all Muslims.
StellaSaidSo says
All observant Muslims ARE potential terrorists, BY DEFINITION.
The backward and barbaric ideology of Islam is incompatible with Western democratic freedoms and values.
Islam is committed to the destruction of Western democratic values and freedoms.
It is therefore not possible to be an observant Muslim – ie committed to the destruction of free, democratic societies – AND a loyal citizen of a free, democratic society.
It is entirely reasonable, therefore, to expect Muslims to decide where their allegiance lies. We don’t need traitors within.
gravenimage says
How is mainstream Islam “extreme”?
StellaSaidSo says
‘How is mainstream Islam “extreme”?’
Good question.
As Mr Erdogan of Turkey has said, there is only ONE Islam. And it is ‘extreme’ to its core.
Islam is practised with varying degrees of devoutness by its adherents. Because most Muslims in the West go about their daily lives in much the same way that we all do, it is easy to assume that the Islam they practise is a standard or ‘mainstream’ version – and that it must necessarily be harmless, because they are.
However, as we have seen too often now, the level of devoutness can change without warning. Yesterday’s ‘friendly’ neighbour can quickly become tomorrow’s violent jihadist.
85% of the world’s Muslims are Sunni Muslims, and the majority of Sunni Muslims are Wahhabi, a hard-line form which originated in Saudi Arabia. The Islam preached in the majority of mosques in Western countries (most mosques in the West are funded by Saudi Arabia) is Wahhabism. Wahhabism is the primary inspiration behind modern Islamic terrorism. Comparatively benign Islamic sects like the Ahmediyya are statistically insignificant, and are regarded by the majority Sunni as heretical.
The fact that the majority of Muslims decline to engage in violent jihad does not mean that they condemn those who do. Or that they don’t support the ultimate goal of Islam, the imposition of a global caliphate under sharia. Surveys in Western countries reveal an alarming level of support amongst so-called ‘moderates’ for attitudes and practices which we would consider to be extreme, if not downright criminal and barbaric. I have met Muslims in professional life who do not find the idea of wife-beating even slightly abhorrent. The corrosive effect of the proliferation of such attitudes in civilised societies which believe in equal rights and the rule of law cannot be under-estimated.
Islam demands that a Muslim’s first allegiance is to Islam and the ‘Umma’. It forbids integration with the host society, and places the law of ‘Allah’ above civil law. It is a supremacist ideology which has no history of co-habitation as equals with any other faith or culture. It is in fact committed to the destruction of other faiths and cultures. It is simply not possible, therefore, for an observant Muslim to be a loyal American/Brit/Aussie/etc.
And anyone who claims that the Islam of ISIS is an ‘extreme interpretation’ or ‘perversion’ of Islam is lying; ISIS is the Islam of Mohammed in its purest, most literal form. While the size of its ‘caliphate’ may recently have been diminished, its ambitions have not.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Yep, good post 🙂
terry says
The West has officially submitted to the demands of muslims that we shut down our free speech by putting itself beyond reproach.
Islam cannot stand up to scrutiny, muslims know it and that’s the reason for their demands.
Jackie Drewes says
Had been told by a few news outlets articles mentioning that Robert Spencer is racist etc. . But I don’t see it . Just give factual news and facts to back up what you say and teach. I guess its similar to calling people with conservative views white supremists Fake News and left wing propoganda. That they want to suppress giving any critique on Islam at all is warning sign that something is very wrong in our democracy. And that they won’t allow to say Islam with radical terrorist that yell Allah akbar and hold ISIS flag have nothing to do with terrorism and wont’ even look into Quar’an to find out is crazy. this is really an attack on our freedom and democracy where we can critique anything and are free even to offend one another but thru being peaceful and law biding. this oppressive thinking not allowing critique of Islam is unnacceptable and irrational. Anyone should be able to read Quar’an etc. and critique it like we do the bible.