In Church Militant, some new Catholics have put a question for Pope Francis that we devoutly hope he will answer:
A group of ex-Muslim converts to Catholicism are criticizing Pope Francis’ approach to Islam. In an open letter to the Holy Father recently published online, the former Muslims say the pope’s teaching on Islam as it appears in the apostolic exhortation Evangelii Gaudium (EG) implies that Islam is a good religion in itself.
If Islam is in itself a good religion, as you seem to teach, why did we become Catholic?” they ask. “Do not your words question the goodness of the choice we made … at the risk of our lives?”
The Pope has to answer this question. He cannot simply walk away from this. Catholics worldwide deserve an answer. Converts deserve an answer. Converts from Islam who have risked their lives to become Catholics deserve an answer. Does Pope Francis believe that Islam is superior to Catholicism? If so, why doesn’t he convert? Does he think that those who converted to Catholicism from Islam, risking their very lives, have made a terrible error? Perhaps he believes that yes, on the whole, Catholicism is just an eensy-weensy bit better than Islam, but not enough for anyone to risk his life by converting to it. So please, you Muslims thinking of converting, don’t. It just isn’t worth it. Take his word for it — after all, he’s the Pope.
Or does he believe, in his confused, good-hearted, weak-minded, utterly maddening way, that Catholicism is in fact superior to Islam? If he does, can he tell us why? Can Pope Francis bring himself to say what he must say, if he is to be truthful to his faith, even if that offends the world’s Muslims he has been courting so determinedly, and for whom he has been serving as a relentlessly upbeat apologist? Or will he come out with something absurd like “all religions are essentially the same in that they all strive for good”?
After all, this is the man who assured us that “there is no such thing as Islamic terrorism” because he can read in the papers about a Christian man who kills his fiancé or his mother-in-law, which naturally means….what? Apparently, that Christians, too, practice “terrorism.” No, I already told you — he’s the Pope. He doesn’t have to make sense. And as for those 109 Jihad verses in the Qur’an, the ones that command the faithful to kill the Unbelievers, to smite at their necks, to strike terror in their hearts — well, those verses are clearly not to be taken seriously, because the Pope knows that “authentic Islam and the proper reading of the Koran are opposed to every form of violence.” No, he doesn’t have to tell you how he knows it. He’s the Pope. Ipse dixit. And who are you going to believe about “authentic Islam”? Those madmen in ISIS and Al Qaeda and Boko Haram, or the Holy Father?
Paragraph 252 of EG [Evangelii gaudium] declares: “The sacred writings of Islam have retained some Christian teachings; Jesus and Mary receive profound veneration and it is admirable to see how Muslims both young and old, men and women, make time for daily prayer and faithfully take part in religious services.”
Islam has appropriated some Biblical stories and figures, but these are not the same as “Christian teachings.” Among those so appropriated are Jesus and Mary, but in Islam they are transformed, beginning with the fact that the Islamic Jesus is not the Son of God and Mary, not the Mother of the Son of God. What “Christian teachings” have been retained in Islam? It would be fascinating to hear Pope Francis dilate upon that theme. Love one’s enemies? Faith (in God), Hope (that there is a better world and we are working toward it), and Charity (you are tasked with trying to make an effort to love even the person who absolutely hates you)? Where are Faith, Hope, and Charity in Islam? How does the God of the Christians differ from the Allah of the Muslims? Is there a Golden Rule in Islam? At the Vatican, these can be Questions for Study and Discussion.
“The Holy Father continues in the next paragraph, ‘Faced with disconcerting episodes of violent fundamentalism, our respect for true followers of Islam should lead us to avoid hateful generalizations, for authentic Islam and the proper reading of the Koran are opposed to every form of violence.’”
Robert Spencer, an Islamic expert and editor of Jihad Watch, told Church Militant, “These converts are respectfully calling upon the Pope to acknowledge truths that he has repeatedly denied and misstated.”
The ex-Muslims quote Abp. Nona Amel, the Chaldean Catholic archbishop of Mosul in Iraq: “Our present sufferings are the prelude to those that you, Europeans and Western Christians, will suffer in the near future. I lost my diocese. The headquarters of my archdiocese and my apostolate have been occupied by radical Islamists who want us to convert or die.”
The ex-Muslims don’t have the impression Pope Francis is taking Amel’s warnings seriously.
They further criticized the Pope’s encouragement of Western countries to accept Muslim refugees without regard to religion. His most recent public speech on the subject came on New Year’s Day, at the 51st World Day of Peace celebration, whose theme was “Migrants and Refugees: Men and Women in Search of Peace.”
The Holy Father also drew a comparison between the exodus of the Holy Family and modern-day refugees during his Christmas Eve homily on December 25:
So many other footsteps are hidden in the footsteps of Joseph and Mary. We see the tracks of entire families forced to set out in our own day. We see the tracks of millions of persons who do not choose to go away but, driven from their land, leave behind their dear ones.
There are now tens of millions of Muslims living in Europe. Some — a very few — are real refugees. But most are not. None of the Pakistanis now in England were “driven from their land.” The Moroccans and Turks in Germany and the Netherlands were not “driven from their land.” The Algerians and Moroccans and Tunisians in France were not “driven from their land.” No Iraqi Muslims — the Christians are a different story — were “driven from their land.” None of the Muslim Egyptians and Libyans now in Italy had been “driven from their land.” Some migrants in Europe from Syria could be described as being “driven from their land” by the violence of civil war, but millions of them found refuge among coreligionists in the Middle East (in Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan), and all of them might have done so. They were not hounded into going to Europe, but chose it for all the material benefits it offered.
The Muslims who have been flooding into Europe in recent decades — “invading” is not too strong a word — have done so, and will continue to do so if the Merkels and Mays have their way, in order to take full advantage of everything that the generous welfare states of the West offer them: free or subsidized housing, free medical care, free education, family allowances. With so many benefits, these migrants have been in no hurry to find jobs. Their unemployment rates remain far above — at least twice that of other, non-Muslim immigrants. They are quite content not to work, but to receive the many forms of Jizyah supplied by European taxpayers. The rates of criminality for Muslim migrants are staggering. The Pope needs to be reminded that the real refugees from the Muslim Middle East, those who face persecution and even murder, are the Christians, including the Copts in Egypt, 200,000 having left Egypt in the last few years, the Assyrians and Chaldeans in Iraq, more than a million of whom — nearly 80% — have fled that country since 2003, and those Orthodox and Catholics in Syria who could no longer count on being protected by Assad and the Alawites. The Anglican Canon Andrew White, the “Vicar of Baghdad,” has said that Christianity is “over” in Iraq. Yet the Pope for years chose not to denounce the Muslim persecution of Christians, though he finally did so last October — without naming either “Islam” or “Muslims” — when he said, “We see many of our Christian brothers and sisters in the Oriental Churches experiencing dramatic persecution and an increasingly disturbing diaspora.”
As Church Militant has often reported, the Catholic Church is experiencing rapid collapse in European countries like France and the United Kingdom, while Islam is exploding in popularity.
Is it true that Islam is “exploding in popularity” in Europe? It may be “exploding” in numbers, but that has nothing to do with its “popularity.” That word implies that Islam is proving to be more attractive a faith than Christianity. But the explanation for the steady increase in the Muslim population is twofold: first, millions of Muslim migrants have arrived, and more continue steadily to arrive, so that there are now tens of millions of Muslims in Europe; second, Muslim birth rates in Europe are much higher than those of non-Muslims. What if the Pope were to discuss this publicly, to state that the increase in the Muslim population is a result of migration and birth rates, and instead of defending and praising Islam at every opportunity, he were to call upon Europeans not to lose heart nor to abandon Christianity?
Imagine if the Pope could at long last address his flock — we can dream, can’t we? — thus:
“If Islam becomes the predominant faith in Europe, if Europe’s Christians begin to feel as insecure as Christians have recently felt in Muslim lands, will that be a result we should regard with equanimity? I do not think so. I admit that in the past I did not fully understand the challenge — some might put it even more strongly — of Islam to Christianity. I have had to learn a great deal, had to abandon some earlier views, and now know much that has been painful for me to acknowledge. But now I do understand, as I did not when I was determined to focus on similarities in the two faiths, what distinguishes Christianity from Islam. I hope that we Christians will not lose faith in our faith, will recognize what Christianity offers that Islam does not, and will work to spread the faith that we know to be true. We must not surrender, demoralized, to the militant carriers of the fighting faith of Islam. We must remain steadfast in our Christian faith, and not retreat, but rather spread the Gospel especially to those millions of Muslims whom we have admitted into our midst. And we should take care to welcome ex-Muslims who, as we know, take great risks when they become Christians.”
In November 2017, Church Militant reported that ISIS published a poster featuring a beheaded Pope Francis, along with various propaganda posters hinting at Christmas attacks on various large cities around the world.
That poster of a headless Pope Francis was published by ISIS, and the Pope — that formidable scholar of Islam — knows that ISIS members are not real Muslims. They are confused about their faith. They take many Qur’an verses much too literally. Some seem to think that the command to “smite at their necks” actually means “smite at their necks.” We all know where that kind of literalism ends up taking us — far from the “authentic Islam’’ that “has nothing to do with violence.” The Pope isn’t worried; he knows that “authentic Islam” will prevail, and the historically good relations between Muslims and Christians will not be affected by the fanatics of ISIS.
The Holy Father has acknowledged that countries have good reasons to limit migrants. On his return flight last November from Sweden — a country dealing with a crisis of Muslim integration — he said that countries need not accept more refugees than they can handle.
“I believe that, in theory, one cannot shut their heart to a refugee,” the Holy Father commented. “However, political leaders need to be prudent; they should be very open to receiving them, but they also need to be prudent when it comes to working out how to settle them because it is not just about receiving a refugee; they also need to be integrated.”
The Pope, having for so long championed mass migration into Europe, now suggests — a little late — that no country need accept more refugees than it “can handle.” But he still fails to make the essential distinction between Muslim and non-Muslim migrants. In Europe, it has proven impossible to integrate large numbers of Muslims, no matter how much money and energy and goodwill have been expended on them by their hosts, while non-Muslim immigrants to Europe are absorbed with comparative ease. Surely this gives us reason to suspect that there is something about Islam that prevents integration. Could it have something to do with the commandment not to take Christians and Jews as friends, “as they are friends only with each other”? Is the Pope aware of the doctrine of Al-wala’ wa-l-bara’, which means love for fellow Muslims, and hatred for the Kuffar?
“Robert Spencer hopes the Holy Father heeds the warning from this recent open letter [by the ex-Muslims].”
“We can only hope that he will deign to respond, and not give these courageous people cause to echo St. Paul’s question, ‘Have I become your enemy by telling you the truth?’” Spencer told Church Militant.’
Amen.
IQ al Rassooli says
Francis the Pope of Muslims
Pope Francis has been during his watch so far more concerned with the plight of MUSLIMS than those of Christians. Not once did he mention the mass slaughter of Coptic Christians on Easter Sunday by Muslims BUT he was more upset about the butchery of Shia Muslims in Syria by Sunni Muslims
Under Francis’s rule more Christians have been Murdered Raped Terrorized Plundered and Dispossessed than under any pope in recent history and Francis has been DEAFENINGLY quiet all these years so that he would NOT offend Muslims!
Even more disturbing are his assertions to his followers of 1.2 billions that he could not “find any aggressive verses” in Muhammad’s Quran when any fair minded and decent human being with two brain cells of logic will find at least 100 of them
What is even more beneath contempt is the fact that the absolute majority of his cardinals, bishops etc are also SILENT. How Francis and his prelates can sleep at night is beyond my comprehension.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTuFA1fQ-yg&feature=youtu.be&a
IQ al Rassooli
Kafir & Proud!
http://www.alrassooli.com
Terry Gain says
This stupid Pope thinks that accusing Christ of faking His death shows profound veneration. As a Catholic I am embarrassed. I can’t wait for him to move onto the next phase. He has been a complete disaster.
The Pope isn’t even aware that Islam was spread by the sword. He is as ignorant about Islamic doctrine and history as Obama.
le mouron rouge says
Terry Gain says
Jan 4, 2018 at 5:31 pm
The Pope isn’t even aware that Islam was spread by the sword. He is as ignorant about Islamic doctrine and history as Obama.
***************************
Actually, Francis and Obama are “not” ignorant, they are “change agents” and they know “exactly” what they are doing.
As for Islam advancing by the sword, one might want to inquire of the millions of people who were tortured and murdered by the Roman Catholic church in its quest for power.
“But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.”
2 Peter 2:1
To every man there openeth
A Way, and Ways, and a Way.
And the High Soul climbs the High way,
And the Low Soul gropes the Low,
And in between, on the misty flats,
The rest drift to and fro.
But to every man there openeth
A High Way, and a Low.
And every man decideth
The Way his soul shall go.
– John Oxenham (1852-1941)
Bill says
Thank you. It should be obvious by now that Bergoglio is working with, and just as hard as, Merkel, Macron, the Swedish Government and the EU to destroy the Judeo Christian underpinnings of Western civilization. I do not believe that Bergoglio is particularly sold on Islam. It is but a tool he is using to destabilize Western nations to pave the way for the adoption of the one religion he is fervent about: global Communism.
Terry Gain says
The NT condemns violence and hate.
abad says
It is fair to say, if Hussein Obama was dangerous to the USA, American, values, then Pope Francis is also dangerous to the western world, western values, and of course Christianity since he espouses false altruism.
Would love to see some real numbers, with regards to how many Catholics he managed to permanently drive away from the Roman Catholic church. Bet it’s more than any other pope since the start of the twentieth century.
Leo D lion says
Change agents….
Perfect portrait
Patrick says
He’ll never reply, they never answer any Ques. Took the whole group 1300 yrs to admit the priests were pedophile rapists. I am an ex-catholic with awards for doctrinal understanding, ( why I’m ex, thank GOD.) And they’ll never even give the ques. a look. I guarantee it. The hierarchy lives in such a world of royal entitlement, that if you make that a written request, They’ll use it as toilet paper. No you’ll get nothing from the pope except photo ops, and ear tickling effluvia. And that’s a fact. Want to take a guess at how many times He quoted scripture during his American ..2 WEEK trip ?……………that’s right…..0
David Busnick says
Catholicisms thirst for power in the dark ages had nothing to do with Christianity, but Muslims thirst for occupation of all countries whether by the sword or by over population has everything to do with Islam and the Koran.
TruthWFree says
I truly believe Obama is a closet Muslim and this Pope’s outreach to what I consider Satan’s religion has to be diabolical. Francis cannot be that ignorant.
Linnte says
I suspected Obama was a Muslim, but now I am positive. My one reason is this, a few months back, the Iatollah of Iran called Obama a hypocrite. One cannot BE a hypocrite unless one is a Muslim according to Islam.
Prabh108 says
The son of a Moslem is always a Moslem, according to my understanding.
Rob Porter says
Terry Gain, well said. The ridiculing of Pope Francis in this piece is quite comical, this part hitting the nail on the head: “Or does he believe, in his confused, good-hearted, weak-minded, utterly maddening way, that Catholicism is in fact superior to Islam? If he does, can he tell us why? Can Pope Francis bring himself to say what he must say, if he is to be truthful to his faith, even if that offends the world’s Muslims he has been courting so determinedly, and for whom he has been serving as a relentlessly upbeat apologist?”
My contempt for this Pope knows no bounds. Because of his influence, with his ignorance of whatever it is that drives him to say such dimwitted things about Islam, he is a very dangerous man, but the insane left loves his gross stupidity.
BC says
Who doe he refer to when he says the ‘true followers’ of Islam. The true followers of Islam are those who follow and obey every commnd of Mohammad. The simple fact that Muslims are slaughtering other Muslims should tell him that there is no peace in Islam.
The Popes are true hypocrites who do even not believe in the power of their own ‘god’
otherwise why do they drive around in bulletproof cars?
eduardo odraude says
I’m not a Catholic, but it’s no criticism of a faith to note that its leader drives in bulletproof vehicles, given the frequent, serious death threats against the pope and the not so long ago shooting of another pope. After all, having faith does not require that one be reckless or suicidal. Faith could better extend to the idea that bulletproof glass and common sense are among God’s gifts.
blitz2b says
Pope Francis has effectively dismantled the pun
“… is the Pope Catholic…”
I have serious doubts about the beliefs of this pontiff. It seems that he is more interested in an all inclusive world religious system then he is of being the leader of the Catholic Church…
A shepherd who has abandoned his sheep, thrown open the the gates to let the wolves in and tells his flock that there is nothing to worry about that we should open our hearts to more of these carnivores.
He’s like an Obama with a cassock and a mitre.
peter says
A pope with afoot fetish.
Carolyne says
And Muslim feet are not all he kisses. thanks
Simon says
The Pope should not be ignorant of the exhortations to violent jihad that the Saudis openly propagate in their “Noble Qur’an”:
https://quadrant.org.au/magazine/2017/11/noble-quran-calling-violent-jihad-australia/
tim gallagher says
I agree with the points you make, IQ al Rassooli. And I especially like your statement about the Pope not finding aggressive verses in the Koran when “any human being with two brain cells of logic” can find at least 100 such calls for violence. The calls for violence in Islam are so clear. The evidence is so obvious. This Pope’s method seems to be to say that the calls for violence in basic Islam aren’t part of true Islam. What garbage. What a liar he is. And I also don’t know how he and his silent bishops,etc, can sleep at night. The level of ignorance of violent, murderous, evil Islam that this imbecilic Pope displays is unbelievable. He can’t “find any aggressive verses” in the Koran! On Islam, this Pope is a brain dead menace to anyone who listens to the rubbish he says. He should tell the truth. And especially when Christians are being slaughtered by the Muslim scum that he claims are so peaceful. It’s bizarre. Above all, he should be speaking in defence of persecuted Christians.
Terry Gain says
It’s not just that there are verses commanding terrorism in the Koran, the irrefutable evidence and the case against Islam , is that these verses have been acted upon by Muslims for 1396 years and are being acted upon today.
tim gallagher says
I agree, Terry. Although they are disgusting in themselves and show Islam to be evil and barbaric, I guess those calls for violence wouldn’t matter so much if there weren’t Muslim scumbags trying to carry out the murderous commands. But Muslims, who take their rotten religion seriously will, of course, try to carry out the violence commanded of them in the same way people who follow a peaceful religion with high and noble ideals, such as Christianity, try to follow the commands to behave decently towards other people as much as possible. Islam is just rotten to the core in every way. It preaches nothing but hatred for all non-Muslims. It needs to disappear from the human race. It certainly is a very clear danger to all of us non-Muslims.
Champ says
BRAVO, IQ al Rassooli!!
The video you posted above–where you’re interviewed by The Haggman Report–is something that EVERYONE on Jihad Watch needs to listen to …
And I’m currently @ the 44:55 minute mark on the video and I had to stop and quote something *very* important you just stated:
“I want the Americans to understand how evil islam is …islam is evil because muhammad was evil” …
I have been stating this for YEARS on Jihad Watch, and recently, much to my surprise, one well known poster, and very popular on Jihad Watch (whose name will not be mentioned) chose to disagree with me and claimed that …”there are some things that are good about islam.”
Wow his ignorance left me STUNNED, due to the fact that he’s so well known and a long time contributor on Jihad Watch who should know better.
So instead of singling him out I suggest that EVERYONE listen to your interview with Haggman — it’s brilliant and spot on!! And I haven’t even finished listening to the entire interview, just yet, but I absolutely will, and I may have more thoughts to add when I’m done.
For now I had to stop the video and quote your above statement, which bears repeating …
“I want the Americans to understand how evil islam is …islam is evil because muhammad was evil” …
Indeed!!!!
le mouron rouge says
Champ,
Good post.
May I also suggest, Jay Smith at https://www.pfander.uk/videos/, also found on YouTube.
Champ says
Thank you for the link, le mouron rouge–it looks very extensive!
Champ says
I just listened to the entire Haggman interview, and the only thing that I would add is that IQ does an *outstanding* job exposing islam during the first half of the interview–from the above video, provided by IQ–and he does this with the quran itself. Brilliant!!!
mortimer says
Agree with IQ: how does the pope sleep at night if he FAILS to speak a word in DEFENSE of the MARTYRS of Christianity?
Lydia Church says
He is the grand deceiver, that is reason # 1.
The vatican l also has official documents that contain endless heresies, including that they accept all religions. But only Jesus can save you.
I would ask why did the muslims become Catholics, when they could have become Christians?
We have no such heresies on our books; our book is the Bible.
Anyway, I doubt he will answer them.
le mouron rouge says
Lydia Church says,
I would ask why did the muslims become Catholics, when they could have become Christians?
************************
Maybe, just maybe, the teaching on Purgatory by the RCC appeals to them. That’s an attractive option vs. the “eternal fire of Hell.”
Much like the RCC, Salvation, in Islam, is works oriented, good deeds vs. bad deeds.
According to the Quran, Muhammad was uncertain whether Allah would save him:
Or do they say, ‘He has forged it’? Say: ‘If I have forged it, you have no power to help me against Allah. He knows very well what you are pressing upon; He suffices as a witness between me and you; He is the All-forgiving, the All-compassionate.’ Say: ‘I am not an innovation among the Messengers, and I know not what shall be done with me or with you. I only follow what is revealed to me; I am only a clear warner.’ S. 46:8-9 Meccan
Excerpt from Answering Islam: http://www.answeringislam.net/authors/shamoun/muhammad_salvation.html
The RCC teaches:
“So, the most powerful means to relieve or release a soul from purgatory is through the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. You’ll find that in the Catechism. It says it in 1032: “From the beginning, the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God.”
After the Mass, the next most powerful way to help the souls is the Rosary, the most powerful Marian prayer on earth — in her approved apparitions, Mary says pray the Rosary for peace in the world, in your hearts, in your family — and the Stations of the Cross, because they’re indulgenced. You have to be in the state of grace to help the souls in purgatory.”
Excerpt from: The National Catholic Register. http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/how-to-help-the-holy-souls-in-purgatory
And, as an added bonus, the relatives and/or friends of the dear departed loved one, get to “pay” the RCC for performing the “Holy Sacrifice of the Mass” for their departed loved one, or
Vatican offers ‘time off purgatory’ to followers of Pope Francis tweets
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/16/vatican-indulgences-pope-francis-tweets
A Supplication for the Beggars:
There is not one word spoken of it, (purgatory) in holy scripture, and also if the Pope with his pardons may for money deliver one soul hence, he may deliver him as well without money: if he may deliver one, he may deliver a thousand: if he may deliver a thousand, he may deliver them all; and so destroy purgatory: and then he is a cruel tyrant, without all charity, if he keeps them there in prison and pain, till men will give him money.
-Simon Fish (1500? – 1531)
Carolyne says
It’s kind of interesting that the LDS Church also believes that live people can rescue the dead from hell by baptising them retroactively. That’s why they have genealogy records on millions of families. You have to save them by name.
gravenimage says
You do know that Robert Spencer is a devout Catholic?
This is not about the supposed failings of Catholicism, but about the dangerous dhimmitude of this specific pontiff.
le mouron rouge says
gravenimage says
Jan 5, 2018 at 4:00 pm
You do know that Robert Spencer is a devout Catholic?
**********************
Yes.
gravenimage says
This is not about the supposed failings of Catholicism, but about the dangerous dhimmitude of this specific pontiff.
******************
You are certainly entitled to your opinion and I to mine. There are times when we will just have to agree to disagree.
Francis had been a priest for 40+ years when he was elected Pope
Wasn’t that enough time for the “august” body of electors to have “some” idea about Jorge’s ideology?
Or, is it possible that his being elected was the plan and that is why Benedict XVI was apparently forced to retire?
Either way, the institution has failed the people of the Roman Catholic faith.
I
eduardo odraude says
Yes, an Eastern Orthodox Catholic, unless I’m mistaken.
Emilie Green says
“and waiting for an answer”
When the phone don’t ring, you’ll know it’s Pope Frankie,
Flavius Claudius Iulianus says
Add this letter/question to the other two that were not answered.
PorkToiletPaper says
Why doesn’t he go and walk among the Muslims?
christianblood says
Very good question!
Does this Pope even has the capacity and the objectivity to ask himself such a question?
Stacy Girl says
That anyone converts to Catholicism today is a wonder. As a cradle Catholic, I’ve watched the demise of the church since Vatican II. Like most monolithic entities, it rots from the inside out. Wayward, perverted careerists have brought us here and Dope Francis is the leader we so richly deserve.
Terry Gain says
No. The Faithful deserve better.
Wellington says
The faithful may deserve better, Terry Gain, but they ain’t gonna’ get “better.” Not by a long shot. And, sad to say, and unlike the Protestant world, while Catholicism has many merits, both intellectually and artistically, one of them is NOT standing up to authority, which the Protestant world did so well compared to Catholicism.
Let me put it another way. The rebirth of freedom in the West, after the extinguishing of freedom pioneered by ancient Greece, largely depended on what Protestantism wrought. The Catholic world could never have invented America. It took the Protestant world to do so and I count this as Protestantism’s single greatest achievement. Catholicism eventually followed, especially after the disastrous papacy of Pius IX and the enlightened papacy of Leo XIII, but it was a laggard where the re-birth of freedom is concerned and one knows this or should know it. No way the Roman Catholic world could have invented the United States of America. No way. It took the Protestant world to do this. Surely.
Terry Gain says
Wellington
You make very good points but let’s not forget that John Paul II was a Catholic. So were Peter and Paul. And Christ.
“Thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build my church”.
tired vet says
John 17:21, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.
Unfortunately this is not true for the majority of the World’s Christians.
abad says
“You make very good points but let’s not forget that John Paul II was a Catholic. So were Peter and Paul. And Christ.”
Terry:
Peter, Paul, and Jesus were Jewish. They were not Catholics.
le mouron rouge says
Wellington,
As a former Roman Catholic, I’m in full agreement with your assessment.
Kepha says
Wellington is both right and wrong in this one. Keep in mind I am speaking as a hard-core Protestant of what would be called the “Calvinist” variety.
Protestantism’s contribution to political liberty comes from two strands in its theology that are not necessarily related. One is its biblicism, the other is how most Protestant countries became pluralistic in one form or another–much to the dismay of the dominant denominations’ clergy. Protestantism, at least in its early forms, was not as individualistic as 20th century liberals would like it to have been.
Protestant biblicism understood that people are sinful, and that sinfulness effects all they do. One corollary is that no single sinner or group of sinners should be allowed absolute power–“an accursed power in one that can sin”, wrote Samuel Rutherford, political and theological spokesman for Covenanting Scotland in 1644. Earlier, Calvin had spoken of a combination of aristocracy and democracy as the best government; noting what a bad press kings get in the Bible. Further, among the Reformed (“Calvinists”) and Anabaptists, this biblicism led to a recognition that the monarchial episcopal system known for 1400 years was not necessarily biblical, and that in initiating an organized ministry, the apostles called on the congregation to identify qualified men (Acts 6). There was also a view of authority, whether in church, home, or state, as a stewardship (under God) rather than ownership.
Nor should it be assumed that these Reformed Christians, in decrying the power of a single sinner to destroy the community as boasting in their own lack of sinfulness. Rather, the Protestant doctrine of justification by faith (shared by both Lutherans and Reformed) views the Christian believer as remaining a sinner in need of divine forgiveness, righteous not intrinsically, but in his mediator Jesus Christ.
From this, a doctrine of political compact (in which the governed have a voice in who governs) and the political supremacy of law over the ruler became all but theological dogma among Reformed Christians–including those who gave us the Mayflower Compact in 1620; and before that, the Huguenot Philippe DuPlessis-Mornay’s _Vindiciae Contra Tyrannos_ (which was known to our founders).
As for pluralism, a country like the Netherlands had to accommodate not only a large Roman Catholic minority, but also a large number of Anabaptists, varied sectarians, and Lutherans as well as the dominant Reformed Church. But this always sat uneasily. England’s peculiar via media between Zurich and Wittenberg (NOT Geneva and Rome) led by its bishops was always open to a more consistent form of the Swiss Reformation. Hence Puritanism (“Scots Genevating and English Scottizing”, wrote Bp. Bacroft in the 1590’s).
However, republican Geneva still executed Servetus and banished others. Samuel Rutherford, who in so many ways anticipates Locke’s arguments by a generation, nonetheless called toleration the “Appolyon and Abaddon” of the Book of Revelation. He could do this because, as a Scot, he was a heir to a Reformation which less than a century before him, claimed the bulk of the Scots nobility, people, and lower clergy, and which in his own day had no dissenting Protestantism save what the Stuart monarchs were trying to impose (and which led the Scots to revolt in 1638).
I say this in the interests of historical honesty. By and large, I consider myself as an heir of men like Calvin and Rutherford. However, I also value the denominational peace built around the central concerns of the Gospel that I see in the Great Awakening of the 1750’s.
le mouron rouge says
Terry Gain says
Jan 4, 2018 at 5:33 pm
No. The Faithful deserve better.
**************************
Please define what you mean by a “faithful” Roman Catholic.
Terry Gain says
I refuse to comply with demands that I do anything without offers of payment. I oppose socialism/communism as the second scourge of the earth, just as I oppose the Scourge Of The Earth.
John Stefan Obeda says
I would define a faithful Roman Catholic as one who believes that he stands righteous in the sight of God not only because Jesus atoned for his sins by His suffering and death, but he stands righteous before God also because of the good works that God has given him the power to do. The faithful Lutheran Christian believes what Ephesians 2:8 teaches. We stand righteous before God simply because God declares us to be righteous by His grace and by faith in Jesus. Good works has nothing to do with justification; nevertheless, of course, we do good works; we want to do good works, but we do them not to add something to the redemption that Christ has won for us. .This faith which the Bible teaches gives us certainty of going to heaven. The Roman Catholic Church teaches that it is not right to be certain of going to heaven.
Wellington says
Seconded, Stacy Girl. I too was born Catholic but Vatican II has ruined the Catholic Church and thus not only should Francis I be placed among those few Popes who have been fools but also John XXIII, who did just about the stupidest thing a person can do, i.e., try to fix something that wasn’t broken.
Vatican II was unnecessary, did great harm (e.g., ruined the beauty of the Latin Mass and essentially ruined even priests learning Latin anymore), and Francis I is part of the end product of this massive error by John XXIII. But the error will continue ad nauseam, far beyond Francis, since he has appointed so many bishops and cardinals who, like him, think Vatican II was a good thing. But the reality is that Vatican II was so effing stupid that it actually in its documents “stood up” for Islam, which is insanity officialized since Islam despises Christianity, has terribly appropriated Jesus, which Christianity of course has as its “core person,” and actually denies the Crucifixion and Resurrection (right in Sura 4 of that wretched work, the Koran) as well as the Trinity.
In short, any Catholic who has a high opinion of Francis and Vatican II is a fool, indeed arguably a traitor to their faith. Ditto for anyone who has a high regard for John XXIII. Yes, anyone seeking the rot that now pervades the Catholic Church, first step should be the monumental error which was Vatican II.
Stacy Girl says
I’m surprised to hear this from you, Wellington. I had no idea you were once Catholic, and I agree with your statements. Francis is just the frosting on a cake long in the baking. He stands in direct opposition to all the great saints and Christians who died fighting the enemy he embraces.
Carolyne says
Latin? DidJesus speak Latin? Maybe the mass should be said in Aramaic—you know, to be authentic
Carolyne says
Well, if Mel Gibson said it, it must be true.
christianblood says
Any Roman Catholic who is disillusioned with this pope or with the growing liberalism in the Roman Catholicism, should consider to converting to Orthodox Church, which is the most ancient Christian church that never changes and will never, ever bow to the destructive demands liberal agenda. Never!
gravenimage says
Alas, Christianblood–this is not always the case:
“West should learn from Russia to accept Muslim refugees – Patriarch Kirill”
http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=12354
I’m afraid there is dhimmitude in almost every denomination.
Luckily, there are also many Christians who oppose this appeasement of Islam.
christianblood says
gravenimage
I was talking about how postmodernist liberalism is entering the Roman Catholicism and is destroying it from within. This is not the case in Russia. Please watch the short video clip below as this Danish journalist explains the difference between the Western countries and Russia when it comes to islam and where the problem really lies. Watch it:
http://katehon.com/video/main-problem-west-spiritual
:
gravenimage says
Christianblood, hordes of Muslims flooding in is not good for *any* part of Dar-al-Harb.
There was a terrible Jihad terror attack in St. Petersburg just a week or so ago, on December 27.
gravenimage says
The above posted before I was finished commenting.
I actually consider Jihad terror in Russia to be a terrible thing. I know you have said that it is not a problem, but I disagree.
There is no doubt that there is a lot of silly postmodern liberalism–“political correctness”–in the West, and that this has also effected Christians here.
But *any* appeasement of Islam is a danger to us all, whether in Russia or the West.
abad says
Yeah no.
If they want something better, I suggest non-denominational Christianity, if they wish to join a local church, there are plenty of Bible-based churches all over the country.
Or join or start a home-church.
It’s there in Acts of the Apostles, Romans, et al.
FWIW the Roman Catholic church exists nowhere in the Bible.
JIMI Belton says
How about being simple and convert to Yeshua Ha Messiahic ….why do anyone need the security blanket of any organized church…
Wellington says
Francis is a fool. I don’t want the Pope to be a fool, even though I am an agnostic, because it is not good for freedom, for equality under the law, for the preservation of the greatest civilization in man’s history, i.e., Western Civilization, which civilization has pioneered far more rights and has apologized for its wrongdoings almost infinitely more than any other civilization or society in history has (hey, and as an example, when was the last time you read about American Indians apologizing for brutalizing each other both before and after Columbus arrived in 1492?).
Francis is a disaster. For Catholicism. For Christianity. For the West. For freedom. For equality under the law (everywhere Islam has dominated, and to this very day, it sets up a Jim Crow system based not on race but on belief). For women’s rights. For common sense. For…. For…. For….
I’m sick of the man. He has done, and continues to do, much harm. Were I a practicing Catholic, knowing what I know, I could not but be greatly embarrassed by this fool and wonder what the hell God was up to, assuming Catholicism is the true faith as Catholics have been taught, by allowing this fool of fools to become pontifex maximus.
The West is in deep shit. Partial evidence of this is that a worse-than-nothing—-actually an influential, harmful fool—-now occupies the throne of St. Peter. Emblematic of the times I would contend.
CT says
A religious teacher’s refusal to engage with differing theology is an abdication of responsibility.
I am also not Catholic, but I wish the Catholics another pope like John Paul II, standing up for liberty and Christianity, as soon as possible.
Wellington says
John Paul II is far preferable to Francis I, but give me Benedict XVI over John Paul II because while both John Paul and Benedict comprehended the iniquity of Marxism, Benedict also fully comprehended the wickedness of Islam which, by all accounts we have, John Paul did not.
So, as I see things, while John Paul was impressive, Benedict was even more impressive. As for the current Pope, the fool doesn’t even realize the many malevolent aspects of Marxism, being the Latin American leftist that he is, let alone the horridity of the worst religion ever created by man, Islam by name. Oh yeah, the disaster which is Francis I remains unabated and in continuation mode, to the detriment of the Catholic Church, to the detriment of Christianity, to the detriment of Western Civilization, to the detriment of freedom. Yes, he’s this awful.
I have no respect for this man nor do I think I should have. Anyone who thinks me wrong here, please provide your argument and I will consider it and then respond accordingly.
CRUSADER says
Pope John Paul II on islam as ideology
in book “Crossing the Threshold of Hope” :
Islam is not a religion of redemption, but it represents a reductionism of God to pure power and pure will. No place for love and compassion. Islam is fundamentally a religion of violence.
Pope Benedict XVI at Regensburg address:
Islam is not interested in logos, truth, intelligibility, but will and power.
=========
Discussion at Franciscan U. takes place with Robert Spencer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT6venEOTnY#action=share
(minute marker 49:19)
Host Michael Hernon, panelists Dr. Regis Martin and Dr. Scott Hahn, and special guest Robert Spencer, Founder and Director of Jihad Watch, as they discuss ISIS and how Christians in the West are called to respond to this emerging threat.
Crisis Magazine — article about telling the truth about Islam
by Dr. Regis Martin
http://www.crisismagazine.com/2014/telling-truth-islam
Wellington says
But why, CRUSADER, did John Paul kiss a copy of the Koran? Bet Benedict never would have. Indeed, he never did.
Yes, John Paul had many admirable qualities but Benedict had even more. This was my principal point.
CRUSADER says
Time to bring Benedict XVI back…he can become Benedict XVII.
(He is only a decade older than Francis 1.)
Jimi Belton says
`Francis` is the last pope in my est. He is so deceitful that the so called christians are falling all over themselves to receive his sweet smile…..It is my belief that this very man is the False Prophet that is spoken of in the Scriptures…He is uniting all the false religions of the world under HIS control….People do not be fooled Take ahold of Yeshua [Jesus} and don` t let go even if they behead you for it…There is no need for any additional pomp and window dressing when you accept the TRUTH and don`t be deceived with the evil ilk as this master deceiver….Lord Jesus forgive us our sins and keep us through the coming storm, amen…
StellaSaidSo says
I agree, Wellington, esp re the historical role of the Pope as a defender and custodian of Christendom. Francis has betrayed all of us, not just those who describe themselves as Catholics or as Christians.
St. Manuel II Palaiologos says
The Papal Church is finished. It cut itself off from the True Vine, and this is the result.
Wellington says
“The Papal Church is finished. It cut itself off from the True Vine, and this is the result.”
Perhaps. Perhaps not. But the Russian Orthodox Church is a just a lackey of the Russian government. One knows this or should know it. Has been ever since Patriarch Nikon and the Old Believers passed into history back in the 17th century.
gravenimage says
Besides, Wellington, St. Manuel II Palaiologos has said that he does not consider anyone who is not Orthodox to be Christian. So I doubt his problems with this pontiff is his dhimmitude.
After all, the Patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church has chided the West from not taking in *more* Muslims, as Russia is doing.
Unfortunately, there is an awful lot of dhimmitude going around, No one institution has a monopoly on it.
gravenimage says
anotherJWreader, I am generally very glad to see Christian denominations become close.
One of the reasons Constantinople fell was the conflicts between the Eastern and Western branches of Christianity. I wish they had set aside their differences and faced the invading Muslim hordes. (and I realize those differences were not always just doctrinal, but sometimes also instances of wrongs done each other)
Still, some did rise above it; there were Italian Catholic defenders at Constantinople, but not nearly enough of them.
But if they are just going to join together in suicidal dhimmitude, as is sometimes the case today, then this is a serious problem.
DMC says
Pope Francis is a true Christian he practices what he preaches by showing love to Muslims many will convert because of his saintly behavior towards a fellow human being color race are creed ..
CT says
One can show love to fellow humans while pointing out the evil of some of the teachings of a religion they were born into through no fault of their own. Praising a theology that includes cruel doctrines like sex slavery, child marriage, killing apostates and homosexuals, etc. is not saintly behavior.
gravenimage says
Spot on, CT.
One can love and be concerned for Muslims without praising the vicious creed of Islam.
Terry Gain says
Love without intelligence, knowledge and courage is not going to save humanity from the scourge of the earth.
Love for Islam is foolish self-indulgence.
Stacy Girl says
The departure of Pope Benedict continues to mystify.
Wellington says
Agreed.
StellaSaidSo says
And many more will laugh at his capitulation, and take full advantage of it, DMC.
Thomas Kimball says
Is DMC out of his or her mind? Oh wait a minute ,I get it, it’s pope Francis using an alias!
gravenimage says
DMC, I’m afraid Pope Francis has never preached to Muslims, instead just urging that we let more and more Muslims flood into the West.
He should spare a thought for all the *victims* of Muslims, including many Christians.
WPM says
I have to agree Wellington
You said it better then I could, as a Roman Catholic this Pope is the worst thing that has happen to the Roman Catholic church in modern times. His failure to at least condemn the murder of Christians in the Middle East by Moslems is a grave sin for a man of his position and power in my opinion ,that will visit him in his afterlife. I feel his true god is communism we know Christians can not serve two Gods .
Terry Gain says
I agree. Papa Franky is a disaster – for Catholicism and humanity.
Eric jones says
Is Francis the wolf in sheep’s clothing that was warned about in the New Testament?
Many years ago I read the Koran and consequently can heed the warnings of Robert Spencer and other experts. How can persons who have not read the Koran pontificate on what true Islam really is?
Francis was a bouncer in his younger days and perhaps he identifies with the violence of these Jihadist.
I quess the only thing we can do is encourage people to read Jihad Watch and make up their own minds.
Eric
Tony46 says
Another Question for Francisco:
How come and why , and with what purpose in mind the Papacy created the Crusades?
Eur says
Pope Francis is a good person. Christianity introduced the concept of person in Western civilization. That concept means that all human beings are children of God, we are all equal and God loves us all. Islam does not have that concept, you have to fear Allah, obey the rules in an orthodox manner and submit to Allah… only muslims are acceptable for Allah. Christianity has things that I do not like, such as the concept of sin and the fear that was transmitted to children through hell. That is already overcome, in Islam … no. The Catholic Church has the duty to transmit the message of Jesus and set an example, to tell Muslims that God loves them too. The mistake is being made by politicians and Western society in general. We are not knowing how to defend our values, our secular societies with Christian culture and values.
Stacy Girl says
Francis is a fool, not innocent like a child as Scripture says which may be his mindset. He wants to be liked by everyone. How can Francis be good when he exchanged the truth for a lie? He upholds the Koran, a counterfeit that places Jesus in a role subservient to Mohamed. Can’t he see how the very Muslims he loves kill one another for a false God? The mission of the church is salvation, not subservience. And as a Catholic, I pray for Francis daily— that he be replaced.
CRUSADER says
Hmmmm…… ;-/
Perhaps this is what Eur sees in Pope Francis, that he is primarily doing his duty in calling others to Christ, counter-calling what Islam wishes for Muslims to be doing, and also perhaps Eur is pointing to the Pope’s view in recognition of the kinder, gentler part of Islam:
????????????????????????????????????????????????????
”
However, one cannot kill nor harm kuffar. One should have good manners with kuffar. Allah does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion and did not drive you out of your homes. Verily, Allah loves those who deal with equity. (Quran (translation of meanings) 60:8)
This hatred is for kuffar because of shirk. O you who believe! Stand out firmly for Allah and be just witnesses and let not the enmity and hatred of others make you avoid justice.
Be just: that is nearer to piety, and fear Allah. Verily, Allah is Well-Acquainted with what you do. (Qur’an (translation of the meanings) 5:8)
Natural love is allowed for non muslims such as non muslim parents, wife, etc.
Shari’ love is haram for non Muslims including kuffar parents.
One should call kuffar to Islam.
”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kepha says
Speaking as a “fundamentalist” Christian, I believe the Scripture you take as a foundation makes a huge difference.
The West does not need a better Pope. It needs Jesus Christ as he is presented in the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments. It needs to recognize that its list of sins includes not only racism and a non-compassionate use of wealth, but also too great willingness to accommodate all sorts of lies and evil, to the point where today calling good evil and evil good is commonplace.
It needs also to recognize that man’s works can never save. This is why the Word (Son) of God became flesh, dwelt among us, lived in perfect obedience to the Law, gave himself on the cross for our sins, and rose from the dead for our justification. But Christ is not given us through a hierarchy of men in little doses, but in his totality, his righteousness imputed to us sinners through faith in his blood.
Let’s start the New Year by blowing the dust off the Bible, especially the New Testament.
These are my thoughts after the 500th anniversary of the Reformation, which I continue to see as relevant.
Wellington says
“The West does not need a better Pope.”
At the very least, it wouldn’t hurt, Kepha, and actually I am of the opinion that the West definitely needs a better Pope, one in the mold of Benedict XVI. The papacy is a very powerful institution with tremendous moral authority world-wide. The right man in this job is beneficial to all the world. The wrong man in this job is detrimental to the world. And every Pope leaves a legacy, especially by way of the kind of bishops and cardinals he appoints. The current Pope’s legacy is shaping up as a disaster for Western Civilization for several reasons, not the least being the kind of men he is making bishops and cardinals, most of whom will outlive him and be influential themselves for many years to come.
gravenimage says
Agreed, Wellington. Whether one is Catholic or not, the Pontiff has enormous influence on the world, for good or ill. Having a dhimmi fool in the papacy does not help any of us–not Catholics, not other Christians, and not anyone else threatened by Islam.
Kepha says
@Wellington & Gravenimage:
Well, Luther himself said that if the Pope taught a forensic justification by faith, he’d carry the Pope in his own arms. So, in that sense, maybe a better Pope at least wouldn’t hurt; and I certainly agree that a Dhimmi (and Far Left fellow traveler) as Pope is a disaster. More for the sake of everyone here than for you two, who, I feel, know me pretty well, I have always seen Frankie Georgie as a mess.
But, I’m more of the mind that a real spiritual renewal that re-attached itself to Christ, not a particular institution, is what the West badly needs. Perhaps the images of the late Francis Bacon (the artist of the 20th century; not the English Renaissance scientific pioneer) of scurrying, frightened prelates and prelates deprived of their brains has proven prophetic of what we have today. But this is largely because the churches of the late 19th and 20th centuries bet that even with the proclaimed death of God (and I am by no means of the belief that God has either died or decided he doesn’t care anymore), the institutions would live on. I think what we are seeing is how these institutions-first-Gospel-later churches are folding–and taking a whole civilization with them.
I admit that the figurative mud I propose to throw at Pope Francis will also smear a lot of Protestants. But they are all over-complicit, or even leading, in a too-common movement that seeks to save the institutions by bowing to every idol which an anti-Christian Zeitgeist throws their way. It’s why you had the supposed “Christian atheists” of the 1960’s who foolishly followed the worshipers of self, science, and state; it’s why the Anglicans are more willing to have Muslim worship in their churches and Lesbian episcopettes than preaching that recalls Whitefield and Ryle. It’s why a poor, lonely German sister gets thrown out of a Lutheran church for wanting to hear the Sola Fide, Sola Scriptura, Solo Christo, and Soli Deo Gloriam that Luther preached rather than the pap that says Islam’s just as good as the Gospel.
Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way (Psalm 2:12). I continue to pray that our civilization will heed that.
John Stefan Obeda says
It is very unfortunate that we do not have Popes which believe in Sola Scriptura, i.e. that only the Scriptures are our source of doctrine and not other things, such as church traditions, and the opinions of church councils, etc. Sinful man insists to make up his own doctrines, especially the false doctrine that by our own efforts we can make ourselves acceptable to God. There are only two religions in the world, really: one that teaches salvation by works and the other: salvation by the grace of God for the sake of Jesus Christ, which salvation and forgiveness and righteousness becomes our very own by faith in Jesus.
Mockingjay says
“All religions are essentially the same in that they all strive for good”…
– Such a general statement on the nature of religions is UTTERLY meaningless when it does not take into account that all the different religions (cultures) of the world have their OWN UNDERSTANDING of WHAT CONSTITUTES “good”.
– To just “assume” that because we’re all human beings, we must all define “good” in exactly the same way, is HUGELY naive and/or ill-informed.
Terry Gain says
Islam does not strive for good, fool. It strives for dominance. It is satanic.
Terry Gain says
Sorry Mockinjay. I read that first ridiculously stupid statement and then erupted into premature venting.
gravenimage says
Very important point, Mockingjay.
“Good deeds” in Islam include raping and slaughtering Infidels.
robyt says
It is not this (anti)pope, or the previous, but the heresy arising from the II Vatican Council. The intereligious discussion (ecumenism) is not something francis started.
CRUSADER says
Where one understanding of good IMPOSES on others — there is the problem!
Islam IMPOSES.
It subjugates what it deems as apostates, and kuffars, etc…
Fundamental reading of Islam is far more violent and intolerable than Fundamental reading of Christianity.
Islam has this potent doctrine which truly defines its mission through Shari’ah:
Al-wala’ wa-l-bara’ (Arabic: الولاء والبراء) is an Arabic term in Islam, meaning “loyalty and disavowal”.
It signifies loving and hating for the sake of Allah.
Al-wala’ wa-l-bara’ is referred to as holding fast to all that is pleasing to Allah, and withdrawing from and opposing all that is displeasing to Allah; namely the Kuffar (non-muslims) who are to be hated, for the sake of Allah. This is for their calling towards something other than submission to Allah, whether on purpose or by nature of disbelief.
Loving for the sake of Allah means to love Allah and to show loyalty to Him by following His Shariah. It means to love all that is good and permissible in the Quran and Sunnah. This type of love requires one to defend Allah’s deen and to preserve it. It is to love those who are obedient to Allah and to defend and assist them.
Hating for the sake of Allah signifies showing anger towards those who oppose Allah, His Messenger, His deen, and the believers.
=====================
Guy Macher says
Il Papa– stupido! Can Francis explain Koran 9:5 so as to comfort Catholics?
mortimer says
Pope Frank preposterously presents himself as an expert on Islam, and yet, he has not read the PRIMARY SOURCE TEXTS OF ISLAM and does not even recognize their names.
Without a knowledge of the Islamic SOURCE TEXTS, Pope Frank is ‘Dope’ Frank in the matter of Islam.
Champ says
The current pope is a globalist who’s also intent on ushering in the new world order and one-world-religion, so of course he’s going to lie and present islam in a good light. And he would have to lie about islam in order to do that, because there is absolutely NOTHING good to be said about islam–it’s *wholly* evil!
CRUSADER says
Now now….
You aren’t going to get very far with 1.6 billion Muslims in this world currently….
Asra Nomani and Irshad Manji have things to point out which are very compatible to living within Islam….
Champ says
“You aren’t going to get very far with 1.6 billion Muslims in this world currently….”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I know that, but the current pope does not …
Perhaps you could drop him a line and persuade him otherwise.
melek-ric says
Francis is a heretic, and more Catholics need to start saying so.
CatholicGirl says
“Man’s goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?” ~ Proverbs 20:24
“The Lord was and is still today in the boat — even though He seems to be asleep” – Cdl. Walter Brandmüller
“‘Why are you so frightened? Have you still no faith?'” – Mk 4:40
God Jesus is in charge and His Holy Spirit with us. God the Father will turn every evil attempt into glorifying of His Holy Name.
PATRICIA FRANCES KOENIG says
Francis is neither “good-hearted” nor “weak-minded.” Francis is shrewd, clever and an excellent communicator. He deliberately speaks in ambiguities…that is, when he is not clearly undermining ancient Christian teaching and traditions. Francis was not validly elected…making him an anti-pope. Don’t expect him to actually preach Catholicism or denounce the evil teachings of Islam
MFritz says
The pope is not a fool. The pope runs a business. And the business of the pope is to STAY in business. So the elites have to be respected. Or else they may not need the pope and his church anymore. And the elites want MORE migrants. So the pope has to do their bidding.
Stacy Girl says
Yes and archbishop Raymond Leo Burke, formerly of St Louis, was outspoken in matters such as Islam and was deposed by Pope Francis. He was bad for business, that business being appeasement, false tracing, and worst of all the harsh condemnation by Pope Francis of anyone who challenges the unfettered, illogical mass migration of Muslims.
particolor says
All I got for an Answer was ” KISS MY RING !! “
Les says
If you truly understand the Catholic faith you don’t need this Pope to condemn Islam or any faith. Pope Francis has said what other Popes have said about Islam. Saint John Paul II States there is some truth in all religions including Islam.
This is truth.
I see people claiming to be former Catholics for various reason that have nothing to do with what the Catholic Church has taught and what Pope Francis continues to teach which is consistent with the Church that was founded by Jesus Christ and who is the third person of the uncreated creator God. The Catholic faith also believes we physically commune with God in the Eucharist. To leave the Catholic Church are not you denying God and this truth?
gravenimage says
What truth do you see in Islam? Oppression? Slaughtering unbelievers?
Wellington says
Saying there is some truth in Islam is like saying there is some truth in Marxism. Well, Marx got the economic interpretation of history somewhat right but he screwed up big time with intellectual idiocies like determinism, dialectical materialism, the labor value theory and the theory of alienation——-and such massive errors cost mankind millions killed for no good reason.
So, who cares if Islam occasionally stumbles into the truth? It essentially means nothing. Do you get this? Doesn’t seem so. I don’t think the current Pope does either.
Coach Martin says
Many Christian and World leaders from 1500 to 1900 had no dubt about the barberism of Islam at all. Churchill and Gladstone are worth studying. Jefferson and Quincy Adams were well informed. Wesley, Calvin and Luther all had advice.
Luther had no doubt that Islam was the beast coming out of the sea in Revelations 13.
Pope Francis is a Jesuit. Study the Jesuit Oath, a condensed Koran. The thinking on deception and infiltration is similar to Islam. The idea of persecuting Christians is identical.
The Catholic Church will split if this issue is pursued by Pope Francis. The condemnation of American conservative Catholics is further evidence of the Vatican’s alignment with the dark forces of evil. There are videos showing the Vatican worshipping Lucifer and so on. Not comforting to Catholics.
Bewildering.
gravenimage says
Not all Jesuits are like this. This has more to do with Pope Francis and his embrace of “liberation theology”.
Wellington says
Videos showing the Vatican worshiping Lucifer?
Pope Francis is a fool but so are you, Coach Martin. BTW, produce the evidence you cite. My-oh-my, we do get some whackos here at JW and, sad to say, some of them are Christian.
FYI says
Regarding “pope” francis and his public,well-photographed displays of affection for refugees and his incessant boasting about his great love for the poor..
“So when you give something to a needy person ,do not make a big show of it,as the hypocrites do in the houses of worship on the streets”
Matthew chapter 6 v 2{“teaching about charity”}
Do not make a big public show of it..
..because that,according to Jesus Christ ,is only what hypocrites do….hypocrites like francis.
It seems francis completely missed this important teaching.
Also{matthew 6 v 1}..
“make sure you do not perform your religious duties in public so that people will see what you do.If you do these things publicly you will not receive any reward from God in heaven”..
..because only a complete hypocrite would do that..
And we see this teaching is completely lost on all those devout muslims who love to put on a show of public piety for the rest of us to see(and in the idiotic,mistaken belief that this is somehow pleasing to God)
Frank says
There have been 266 popes some good, some pitiful. Connect the dots, Pope Francis is a Marxist from Argentina. The KGB infiltrated Church World Services, a subsidiary of the NWS, back in the 50’s – 70’s which is where social justice and liberation theology were developed. The chickens have now come home to roost.
staffsgt7 says
good luck with getting a response. I have written to the Pope, several Bishops, priests and not one answer from any of them. My thinking is that they have elevated themselves up beyond the laity and care little, except when in public, to put on a show of acting pious, etc.
They obviously don’t read the koran or Sunnah, and would rather cater to moslems than tell the truth of it and to help the moslems out of islam.
Carolyne says
Well, at least they no longer carry him around in a chair. I think the fat one put a stop to that out of pity for those who had to do the carrying. Sometimes even a Pope can think about others.
Leo D lion says
If the Bishop of Rome makes a televised statement during the halftime Alabama – Auburn football game that would be really really amazing. Lol
His entire awkward non-catholic agenda was co-mingled with Obamafication. Hillary was to continue the Obamafication at full speed.
Obama was the change agent for the one world government.
Francis was the change agent for the one world religion.
Obamafication had a major setback in last year’s election. It was big. Think of it, the US voters denied the presidency to the first woman who would have been president.
Obama and Hillary have semi retired into their multimillion-dollar livelihoods.
Since Francis committed himself to Obamafication he is their leader..
He is now the one and only change agent.
if we would like to entertain end times prophecy and wonder if he is the false prophet spoken by many throughout history. then sometime in the near future he is going to start to perform some type of amazing Supernatural wonders.
And or somebody on the world stage is going to survive and live after a mortal head wound.
is the Mortal head wound a symbolic meaning in the Bible or an actual event what are your thoughts
Carolyne says
I think you forgot to take your meds.
Franklin P. Uroda says
IMO, the Holy Father continues the Church’s teaching that all human beings are precious in the sight of The Blessed Trinity-Father, Jesus, Holy Spirit. For folks to say that the Holy Father defends the Islamic religion and terrorists-who justify the horrific mayhem they perpetrate, on the teaching of their prophet and Holy Book-is wrong. The Code of Conduct for Roman Catholics is The Ten Commandments and understanding how it is implemented in the lives of the Faithful.
StellaSaidSo says
Well, he clearly thinks Muslims are precious. But he’s awfully quiet on the subject of the Christians and others who are being slaughtered by Muslims.
gravenimage says
Spot on.
Richard Courtemanche says
In his kowtowing to Islam, the pope is feeding the alligators hoping to be eaten last.
Carolyne says
I could never call this man “Holy,” or even “Father.” He is not holy and he certainly is not my father. He is a stooge for Islam and just a bouncer from a nightclub in Argentina. A sort of hoodlum masquerading as a religious person. I won’t call him a “Man” because I don’t know what is under that dress. However, I should think his dress would hamper his ability to Tango.
Carolyne says
I don’t know about the honesty of the men in red to actually report the correct ballot count. However, the Church used to claim that the smoke miraculously turned white by God as a sign a Pope of whom He approved was elected. We now know that the smoke is turned white by a chemical they throw in, The whole thing, in fact, is smoke and mirrors.
UNCLE VLADDI says
Don’t expect lying us-vs-them and might-makes-right subjective double-standards hypocrisy to ever make universally objective logical factual and truthful sense.
Frank J. Verderber says
The Pope is just another modern day Pharisee, who waves pretenses in front of the public, wears flowing robes and bling to dress up his particular sin: Apostasy [Mt.23]! What those Church Militant people did was courageous and timely. I only hope that they do not judge the scriptures message, by the machinations of popish stupidity. “Solo Scripta”
eduardo odraude says
It seems that some Catholics, out of a certain liking for authoritarianism, play footsie with Islam, and stupidly imagine that more Islam might, by a sort of osmosis, rub off virtuously on Catholicism, which under that influence would, so it is thought, gain back some of its authoritarian backbone. As if the Church didn’t currently have too much of authoritarianism already.
But anyway, Catholicism will not be strengthened by more Islam. More Islam will tend to crush Catholicism, at least to judge by every place on earth where Muslims are a majority.
Carol says
People like the pope are stubbornly trying to create a reality – but rubbing against stinkweed is a bad move. These leaders only insult their own intelligence. They’re crafty enough however to know they’ll probably never be held to account.
Dec Uman says
The answer is simple….This Pope and most of his hierarchy have already converted to Islam