“Trump’s Targeting of Muslims Isn’t Just Racist – It’s Dumb Policy,” says Jessica Pishko in Rolling Stone. Here we go again: for Rolling Stone, stopping or slowing immigration from jihadi hotspots is “targeting Muslims,” and that is “racist.”
What race are Muslims again? What race is the jihad mass murder of innocent civilians again? I keep forgetting.
Anyway, why is Trump’s travel ban “dumb policy”? Because it “ignores the growing threat of U.S.-born non-Muslim terrorists. In April 2017, the Government Accountability Office reported that almost 75 percent of all terrorism fatalities were due to right-wing extremists.”
There are several reasons why that is a misleading statistic that does not establish what it is meant to establish: that “right-wing extremists” are a bigger threat to Americans than Islamic jihad terrorists.
1. It only counts fatalities, not people injured.
2. It doesn’t take failed plots into account.
3. If you follow Jessica Pishko’s link to the Government Accountability Office, and go to page 6 of the report there, you’ll see that the count of fatalities committed by “far right wing extremists” and “radical Islamist extremists” begins on September 12, 2001. Go back one more day, and the number of Americans killed by Islamic jihadists is far, far more than the number of Americans killed by any other type of “extremist.”
4. The comparison doesn’t take into account the fact that there is a global network of Islamic jihadis. They’re found on every inhabited continent. Major jihad organizations such as al-Qaeda and the Islamic State have repeatedly called upon Muslims to murder Americans. By contrast, there is no global network of “right-wing extremists” and they have not called for the indiscriminate murder of American civilians.
This propaganda is everywhere, but all the repetition of these lies doesn’t make them true.
“Trump’s Targeting of Muslims Isn’t Just Racist – It’s Dumb Policy,” by Jessica Pishko, Rolling Stone, February 8, 2018:
In April of 2010, ex-FBI agent John Guandolo, who left the agency due to ethical breaches that included sleeping with confidential sources, held a training session for the Columbus, Ohio police department titled “Understanding the True Nature of the Threat to America.” During the course of the seminar, Guandolo made several outlandish claims about “secret” Muslim societies trying to take over the American government and the inherent dangerousness of Islam. Towards the end, he made an utterly unsubstantiated claim: a 59-year-old college professor – an American citizen and a Muslim who helped run Muslim outreach programs for the state – was, in fact, a secret would-be terrorist who should be watched. Present in the room were dozens of law enforcement officers, including the Chief Deputy who knew the professor well. The claim was eventually disproven, but not before the professor was fired from his job and slandered as a threat to the community.
This report can’t be trusted as a reliable summation of what Guandolo actually charged about Omar al-Omari. In any case, there was much more to the story than Rolling Stone lets on. Find out why it was perfectly reasonable to be concerned about al-Omari here.
A new document published by Foreign Policy on Monday indicates that the Trump administration and the Department of Homeland Security are planning to turn a similar brand of baseless fear mongering into actual governmental policy. The draft report, which was reportedly requested by U.S. Customs and Border Protection Commissioner Kevin McAleenan, describes the nascent stages of a system that would profile Sunni Muslims living in America, including permanent residents and possibly citizens. Titled “Demographic Profile of Perpetrators of Terrorist Attacks in the United States Since September 2001 Attacks Reveals Screening and Vetting Implications,” it calls for the long-term surveillance of Muslims who fit certain “at risk” criteria: being male, Muslim, and from “the Middle East, South Asia or Africa.”
The report purportedly examines 25 select terrorism-related prosecutions in the U.S. that involved Sunni Muslims, making the argument that the government should “continuously evaluate” Sunni Muslims due to their “higher risk of becoming radicalized.” This would likely include stricter standards for travel, visas and other benefits within the U.S. (Naturalized citizens can have their citizenships revoked under certain circumstances.) While the body of the report doesn’t include details of the cases being scrutinized, it does assert that more than half of these select perpetrators were not born in the U.S. – suggesting the proposed measures would largely target visa holders and other immigrants.
In a comment to Foreign Policy, CBP representatives emphasized that the report was a “first draft” that “did not reflect a large number of substantive comments and revisions that have since been made to subsequent versions of the document as a result of CBP’s internal and external review process.” But the draft memo marks another instance of the Trump administration inaccurately painting foreign-born Muslims as the primary perpetrators of terror. Trump’s “Muslim ban,” now in its third iteration, is being implemented even as it remains under Supreme Court review. Trump’s “extreme vetting” program has called for increased electronic surveillance, including the monitoring of social media accounts. After a young man from Uzbekistan drove into a bike path in Manhattan, killing eight people, Trump seemed to doubled-down on the power of racial profiling, tweeting: “I have just ordered Homeland Security to step up our already Extreme Vetting Program. Being politically correct is fine, but not for this!”
The DHS memo is also not the first instance of immigration authorities supporting the president’s nativist agenda. Last month, the Department of Justice and DHS released a report – authorized by the executive order that limited Muslim immigration – saying that “3 out of every 4” people convicted of international terrorism charges in federal U.S. courts are foreign-born. DHS Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen said in the press release, “[W]e must examine our visa laws and continue to intensify screening and vetting of individuals traveling to the United States to prevent terrorists, criminals, and other dangerous individuals from reaching our country.”
But according to terrorism experts, the January 2018 report is misleading both in terms of data selection and interpretation. First, the administration is citing figures that do not match the total number of terrorism-related cases, and seeming to skew the results to include more foreign-born defendants. The DOJ periodically releases the number of international terrorism defendants, and the latest tally from 2015 included 627 defendants. (The Intercept has produced a complete list of terrorism defendants that cites around 800 cases as of January 2018.) But the January report lists only 549 defendants, making it seem that the 402 non-U.S. citizens on the list make up an overwhelming majority of cases.
In fact, long-standing data has shown that country of birth is not an important factor in determining whether or not someone will commit an act of terrorism. Faiza Patel, the Co-Director of the Liberty and National Security Center at NYU’s Brennan Center, found that twice as many “homegrown” terrorists were prosecuted in federal court as “foreign” ones – a fact that’s particularly striking given certain selection issues, like biases in prosecution resources that target Muslim defendants.
“Twice as many ‘homegrown’ terrorists were prosecuted in federal court as ‘foreign’ ones”: all this amounts to is an argument that mosques in the U.S. should be monitored.
And then there’s the fact that deaths from terror attacks in the U.S. are statistically much lower than other forms of homicide. On that last point, the list of international terrorism defendants fails to distinguish cases based on threat. According to the Intercept, the vast majority involve providing “material support,” which can include sending money or Twitter messages.
Perhaps most telling – and unsurprising – the DHS memo last week ignores the growing threat of U.S.-born non-Muslim terrorists. In April 2017, the Government Accountability Office reported that almost 75 percent of all terrorism fatalities were due to right-wing extremists. The Anti Defamation League has similarly “identified more than 150 domestic terror incidents related to right-wing extremists over the past 25 years, with hundreds of perpetrators—almost every one of which was born in the United States.” At least 255 people have been killed and more than 600 injured in those incidents. “Our current report on extremist murders demonstrates that 71 percent of extremist-related murders in the past decade have come at the hands of right-wing extremists,” says Jonathan A. Greenblatt, the CEO of the Anti-Defamation League. “Stopping hate and violence begins with recognizing and understanding where it comes from.”…
LeftisruiningCanada says
Hasn’t this leftist rag died it’s death yet?
Indiana Tom says
Just a bunch of old over the hill 1960s era hippies who are burned out after decades of drug abuse.
Andy says
For Jessica Pishko to make such a comment she has to be “STONED”!!
mortimer says
ISLAM IS CLEARLY A POLITICAL IDEOLOGY.
A political ideology is an inanimate concept or mental and/or a spiritual product.
Since an IDEOLOGY is not a human person, ‘Islam’ (an ideology) cannot be a human person.
Since Islam is not a human person, Islam is NOT a race.
Therefore the claim of Jessica Pishko is false.
Lydia Church says
She is a puppet and mouthpiece of the devil.
“Islam is a race”? Yeah, a race to hell!
‘and “right-wing extremists” are bigger threat than jihadis’?
Wish that were true, that would solve this problem!
No, it is not a race, it is a religion, idiot.
And nothing can beat the threat of the jihadist lethal mutant ninja turtles.
The only ‘threat’ that ‘right wing extremists’ pose is that of posting the truth.
That is the reason they see it as the ‘biggest threat’!
But do you see?
It’s another one of those up there.
Another ITYS.
I told you so. They are targeting us as the ‘problem,’ rather than the true threat of islamic jihad.
Andy says
What I would like to ask Rolling Stoned Jessica Pishko is:
How come the “religion of peace” is always at war???
gravenimage says
Remember when Rolling Stone featured a pin-up-worthy picture of Jihad terror bomber Dzhokhar Tsarnaev on its cover after the Boston Marathon Attack?
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1401040.1374073553!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_750/stone18n-1-web.jpg
Gag me.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Disgusting article.
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/jahars-world-20130717
A few Highlights:
“(since 911)there have been more than 25 plots to strike the United States hatched by Americans, most of which were ill-conceived or helped along by undercover operatives who, in many cases, provided their targets with weapons or other materials. A few – including the plots to blow up the New York subway system and Times Square – were legitimate and would have been catastrophic had they come to fruition.”
“a deeply fractured boy lay under that facade; a witness to all of his family’s attempts at a better life as well as to their deep bitterness when those efforts failed and their dreams proved unattainable. As each small disappointment wore on his family, ultimately ripping them apart, it also furthered Jahar’s own disintegration”
The one thing RS knows, is that islam didn’t have much if anything to do with their bomb plot.
gravenimage says
Sympathy for the devil. *Ugh*.
J D S says
Well…Rolling Stone. What can I say…Stupid people say stupid things
and lately I’m beginning to believe that stupidness is some kind of virus that has infected all the leftist MSM including those at this rag of a so called magazine.
C says
Rolling Stone magazine is a hate crime. In a just country, anyone who subscribes to it would be placed on a watch list.
Raith Ledbetter says
Unfortunately, another left wing liberal blinded by emotions and their own ignorance. They often spout false facts that they cannot back up. Like I have said many times, liberalism is a mental disease and if not stopped out we’d be living in a war and oppression!
Vito says
You are so right Raith. The liberal Newswriters are lazy, they salivate at prospect of quote Anti-Defamation League or Southern Poverty Law Center, but never question their findings. What defines a so-called Right Wing Extremist? Newswriters are lazy not to delve deeper in these questionable stats. Then of course the Left is so full of glee falsely reporting Trump “Muslim” ban! 5 rogue Islamic nations on the list including Iran a state sponsor of terrorism. That means 52 Islaic nations not on the list and liberal Newswriters too lazy to understand why the 5 nations are on the travel ban list, liberals rather put their multicultural belief system ahead of national security. Liberalism is truly a mental disorder!
LeftisruiningCanada says
The way i read that report ( the GAO paper linked to ), islam is still way more deadly than whatever they mean by “white supremacists” (WS) et al.
The figures for “WS” incidents and deaths are 62 – 106
For islamic attacks it’s 23 – 119.
The islamic attacks are consistently more violent and have a greater death toll per incident.
Also, 6 of the “WS” attacks were against people known to be child abusers or drug dealers. Not condoning ‘vigilanty’ justice, but this is not the same as killing kids at a pop concert etc.
We also cannot ignore the fact that muslims usually express that their actions were because of their religious beliefs. Can we say the same for people who may or may not have some connection to WS or “right wing” movements. since they are far more variable that mohammad’s example of killing the unbelievers?
pat mott says
There is hardly a day without some outrage done somewhere in the world by Islamic folk….they are out to take over the whole world & they aren’t shy about telling us!….So what is this silly woman going on about?
LeftisruiningCanada says
To be honest, there is hardly a moment goes by that doesn’t see one person harming or killing another person. That’s the fallen condition we and this world labor under.
Islam however is almost uniquely positioned (within currently influential, supernatural based religions) to increase rather than oppose this constant violence.
Bill says
There is probably as much truth in this story as there was in the Rolling Stone UVa rape story. The Rolling Stone is trying stay relevant. I am surprised that they did not become acquainted with Chapter 11. Perhaps some day they will.
paul budrunas says
This ignoramus knows SQUAT about Islam and its teachings…clueless bitch
Ray Jarman says
LC, I was going to answer one of last discussions but unfortunately my primary computer has had been blocked from accessing any full articles from JW as well as the comments. I tried another computer and it is working but I still don’t understand how my other one is being blocked both by Bing and Google.
As far as Rolling Stone, unfortunately it is still operating which is surprising since it has been sued so many times and lost. I wonder if maybe someone like George Soros is funding the rag.
LeftisruiningCanada says
That’s weird Ray, hope it’s nothing sinister.
StellaSaidSo says
‘I wonder if someone like George Soros is funding the rag.’
I think we can count on it, Ray.
pnina says
This site is not blocked by either Google or Bing. It’s more likely an issue with your firewall or anti-virus software, or a security addon you use for your browser or any other addon that filters content. Check if this site is black-listed on any of them.
Ray Jarman says
PNINA, Thanks for the reply. I did check the firewall and found the problem. I think I have become paranoid and forgot the basics. Thanks again as the site is working fine.
gravenimage says
Ray, it might be your operating system on some computers. When my laptop was down a few months ago for repair I tried using my old creaky desktop–which used to be my sole computer–and found that Firefox (the only OS that really works on that computer) was now denying access to Jihad Watch.
There might be something similar going on with your computers. Can you switch to another OS?
CRUSADER says
Just want to be sure everybody here on JW has remembered their New Year’s resolution to boycott products of Nestle’ and Lidl….
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2017/10/nestle-removes-christian-cross-from-greek-yogurt-packaging
Don’t want to keep ingesting what is distasteful….nor give our hard earned money to such deluded firms.
As for “Rolling Stone”, that rag has grown moss on it a long long time ago, when “America Pie” went bye bye…
Prabh108 says
If this pile of trash pictured in photo accompanying article is implying over a billion non-white (brown-ish) Hindu/Vedantists/Sikh/Jain/Buddhist/ and other Pagan Dharmics of whatever caste, colour, or creed are Moslem then she belongs at The Hague or Ayodhya.
Genocidal falsehoods must be prosecuted to the fullest extent of The Law.
If all non-whites are Islamic then all whites are Jews.
Obviously not:
Hindu and other Dharmics are defined as those human beings whose chaste married parents (man is father and mother is woman) are immersed in all-Blissful God consciousness at moment their child is conceived and intend upon Cremation after death – no Euthanasia or artificial contraception for the Dharmic community please! Hindu knows Man is Divine – Woman is Shakti and Child is Roop (Form) of Paramatman. Dharma practitioners understand instinctively of EQUALITY between Man and Woman, yet ROLES of Man and Woman are Distinct and Different.
(uppercase is for emphasis – I am not yelling.)
No place inside greater Historical India or any civilized land for Moslems – don’t moslems already have over 50 states/cuntrees? (deliberate spelling error)
Legitimate Religion is Non-violent except when threatened by demoniac/mlecch .
‘Ahimsa Paramodharma’ (Civilize, Self-Realize)
Might of Hindu Arm is Not an Idle Threat.
Deprogram Moslem and other deluded persons through Ghar Wapsi. There is immense Shakti in Vedic Fire Rite.
Author of the book “A Thousand Suns” Linda Johnsen reveals through personal testimony of the tremendous power (Shakti) of Vedic Fire Rite.
Some Black and Some White and Some Hispanic-Meztizo hard-core racialists ARE supportive of Jihadism.
One of the world’s top Brahmans (by birth, by deed and by lineage) has divulged to me that over 100 million jihadists are on the loose and they have the capacity to destroy the entire Earth. (in my view the jihadists could probably destroy the Earth many times over…)
Deprogramming of jihadists and supporters of jihadists needs to occur, pronto.
“Eternal Vigilance is Price of Liberty” Jefferson
pr108 Kindly excuse any typos or any other errors, thanks.
gravenimage says
Yes–most non-whites are *not* Muslim–thank goodness.
gravenimage says
It’s never worked yet, Jay Boo.
Alarmed Pig Farmer says
Did anybody catch the president of NOW on Tucker Carlson last night? She bent herself into pretzel contortions fend off Carlson’s questions in an all out effort to defend Islam as no more misogynist that any other religion. They had to wheel her out on a pallet after the segment, her legs were tied in a knot and she couldn’t walk.
Ray Jarman says
APF, I did watch the interview where she like others on the left never have and answer to the simplest questions. I am sure that Mr. Carlson invites them so everyone can witness for themselves just how clownish they are.
Paula ZAJAC says
Too much! That gave me a great laugh, sorry I missed her appearance.
gravenimage says
Good for Tucker Carlson!
Norger says
I just watched that. He specifically challenged the assertion that the hijab is somehow “feminist” or “empowering” to great effect. It’s a religious modesty garment, period. If a woman wants to wear it (or more accurately has been brainwashed into thinking it’s somehow virtuous) that’s fine; this is US, let her be. But for self-proclaimed feminists to assert that a hijab is somehow” empowering,”— when women all over the world are jailed, beaten or killed for refusing to wear the hijab—is absolutely nauseating. These so-called feminists are completely blinded by identity politics, as is the author of this Rolling Stone article.
Norger says
These types of articles also ignore the disproportionately large number of terrorist attacks committed by Muslims in relation to their population size within the US, particularly in relation to “right wingers” (e.g. anyone who voted for Trump). Finally, in order to make “right wing” terrorism appear to be the more serious threat, proponents of this school of thought essentially aggregate every violent acts committed by whites for whatever reason (nut jobs, Christian fanatics and extreme wingers). And be sure to start the count the day after the most serious terrorist attack in US history, that killed and injured thousands. It’s an intellectually dishonest argument and they know it.
Terry Gain says
I had a leftist attempt to counter my comments about Islamic terrorism by claiming that since Hitler was born a Catholic ( which I assumed to be true) that the Nazi Holocaust is in fact a Christian Holocaust. Leftism is a mental disorder.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Yeah, i’ve heard that kind of nonsense before Terry. Incredible isn’t it.
StellaSaidSo says
Hitler was born a Catholic, and died a Catholic. While his anti-Semitism had its origins in Catholicism, it gained impetus from his admiration of Islam, which he considered a ‘more muscular’ religion than Christianity. However, regardless of its inspiration, the Holocaust was carried out in the name of Nazism, and not – as the Left so often claim – in the name of Christianity.
LeftisruiningCanada says
There’s more to support a claim that his Jew hatred stemmed from the postmodern Fascist impulse against absolutes in the name of national will to power, than from islam.
The will to power surely could lead one to admire a totalitarian war based system such as islam over Christianity (as it did in this case) but i’ve seen no evidence to suggest that hitler encountered islam before becoming a fascist.
Either way, it is of course true that the NT is not the place to go looking for reasons to kill Jews and start wars, whereas islam is founded on such things.
gravenimage says
Hitler rejected Christianity as “weak and flabby”.
StellaSaidSo says
@ LIRC
I did not say that Hitler’s hatred of Jews stemmed from Islam, LIRC (he was anti-Semitic long before he became interested in Islam), but that it gained impetus from it. Hitler was a close associate of Haj Amin al-Husseini, whose Jew-hatred probably exceeded that of the fuehrer. The Roman Catholic Church was the main source of German anti-Semitism, and Hitler grew up in a Catholic family. His interest in Nietszche, and the idea of the superior man, came much later, in adulthood.
LeftisruiningCanada says
It’s a minor point perhaps, but i’m still of the opinion that the antisemitic ideas of islam, or perhaps more properly the arab muslims, were a much later influence upon hitler’s Jew hatred. Some black icing on an already diseased cake.
He doesn’t make any antisemitic statements regarding his childhood in mein kampf. Only later, in Vienna, and certainly once engaged with political thoughts, do “the Jews” become his ‘key’ to understanding things.
While it is the case that the roman church (and indeed some writings of M Luther) had bred an under tone of antisemitism throughout Europe, there was only a general increase in overt Jew hatred around and after WW1, which hitler obviously found no cause to oppose.
From there it just seems a fairly linear increase in abuse and violence towards the Jewish people, all of which meshes so nicely with Fascism, the real driving philosophy of hitler and co. There are definite statements of wanting to kill all the Jews written in mein kampf. Aligning with the arabs fits in with their aims of strengthening the Reich, the Jews being the main opposition to the “greatness” of Germany, as they so disturbingly saw it.
I guess we just differ in where we place the emphasis?
StellaSaidSo says
‘…the anti-Semitic ideas of Islam…were a much later influence upon Hitler’s Jew hatred…’
Indeed they were. Hitler grew up in an environment where anti-Semitism was the norm. His anti-Semitism was present long before his encounter with Islam, or with the Nietszchean concept of the superior man, or with the ideas of the Fascisti – all of which he saw as confirming the correctness of his position in relation to Jews. As you say, the icing on an already diseased cake. You seem to have read far more into my posts than was actually there. If you go back to my Feb 9th 9:14pm, you will see that I simply said that Hitler’s anti-Semitism gained impetus from his admiration for Islam. This is hardly a controversial statement. It is ludicrous to suggest that Hitler developed his antipathy toward Jews only after his encounter with Fascism. Anti-Semitism pervaded the culture. Nazism provided the means by which Hitler could ‘cleanse’ Europe of a population which, for generations, had been despised and scapegoated. Though not the origin of the anti-Semitism which fuelled it, Nazism was indeed the engine of the Holocaust. You appear to be under the impression that I dispute this. Again, I refer you to my Feb 9th 9:14pm, where I said ‘…regardless of its inspiration, the Holocaust was carried out in the name of Nazism, not in the name of Christianity.’
LeftisruiningCanada says
” It is ludicrous to suggest that Hitler developed his antipathy toward Jews only after his encounter with Fascism. Anti-Semitism pervaded the culture.”
Indeed, it might be. But that’s not quite what i suggested. Hitler’s time in Vienna, which he himself explains was the pivotal time in bringing about his views on ‘the Jewish problem’, was not necessarily all to do with Fascism.
As to his views before going to Vienna at age 14, I just refer you to the lack of antisemitism reported by hitler himself in relation to his upbringing, in his most famous book:
I do not remember even having heard the word (Jew) at home during my father’s lifetime. If this name were mentioned in a derogatory sense I think the old gentleman would just have considered those who used it in this way as being uneducated reactionaries. In the course of his career he had come to be more or less a cosmopolitan, with strong views on nationalism, which had its effect on me as well. In school, too, I found no reason to alter the picture of things I had formed at home.
At the REALSCHULE I knew one Jewish boy. We were all on our guard in our relations
with him, but only because his reticence and certain actions of his warned us to be
discreet. Beyond that my companions and myself formed no particular opinions in
regard to him.
It was not until I was fourteen or fifteen years old that I frequently ran up against the
word ‘Jew’, partly in connection with political controversies…… But at that time I had no other feelings about the Jewish question.
In the Jew I still saw only a man who was of a different
religion, and therefore, on grounds of human tolerance, I was against the idea that he
should be attacked because he had a different faith. And so I considered that the tone
adopted by the anti-Semitic Press in Vienna was unworthy of the cultural traditions of a
great people. The memory of certain events which happened in the middle ages came
into my mind, and I felt that I should not like to see them repeated. Generally speaking,
these anti-Semitic newspapers did not belong to the first rank–but I did not then
understand the reason of this–and so I regarded them more as the products of jealousy and envy rather than the expression of a sincere, though wrong-headed, feeling.
Apologies for the long quotation, but despite out assumptions that hitler was raised in a Jew hating atmosphere, the evidence here suggests otherwise. Why would he go to the trouble of spinning this tale if he in reality always hated them?
I’m sure there is more evidence we could look at other than mein kampf, but if we are looking for signs of early Jew hatred, it’s not a bad place to start.
StellaSaidSo says
LIRC, anti-Semitism pervaded the culture in which Hitler grew to adulthood. It would have been virtually impossible for anyone at that time to escape its influence. Both the Roman Catholic Church and the Lutheran Church have a long history of anti-Semitism. While some commentators have sought to downplay Christianity’s role in nurturing hostility towards Jews in Europe, Pope John Paul II was prepared to own it, and to apologise to Jews on behalf of the RCC for historic injustices. He also apologised for the silence and inactivity of Catholics during the Holocaust. Support for Hitler was very strong among senior clergy, some of whom actively assisted him in the execution of his diabolical plan. It is worth noting that, at the instigation of Pope Pius XII, the RCC officially celebrated the Fuehrer’s birthday.
As to why Hitler would ‘go to the trouble of spinning this tale if he really hated Jews’, perhaps he was practising ‘taqquiya’? No autobiography can ever be completely trusted. There are many sources besides ‘Mein Kampf’ which provide insight into the social and religious climate of the years in question.
LeftisruiningCanada says
I’m not really trying to exonerate the roman church from it’s long history of antisemitism, because that is clear enough. It’s likely that there was a generally negative opinion about Jews at the time. But so far, i don’t see evidence that hitler or his family were antisemitic. His father appears to be rather the opposite from the quote above.
“anti-Semitism pervaded the culture in which Hitler grew to adulthood”
And yet it need not necessitate that every child growing up within that culture becomes antisemitic. I suppose it is the idea of ‘cultural determinism’ that i am questioning.
If we look at what hitler says about his life before the age of 14, it would appear that he did not have any terrible opinion regarding Jewish people. Indeed, it might be said that he expresses a rather ‘liberal’ sentiment in his distaste for the anti semitic newspapers he encountered in Vienna. Over the next few years that all changed of course, with his interaction in political circles where there is no doubt about the opinion held about Jews.
It is there that i see hitlers real formation. The ideas we take hold of during our teens tend to be more strongly held and long lasting than even the things we learned at home. We make them ours.
Anyway, thanks for the back and forth, appreciate it.
Ray Jarman says
There are a couple of points I think some on JW are missing. In the countries that retained their governments even under Nazi control such as France (Vichy), Italy and some others actually did protect the Jewish population to a point unlike the countries like Poland and Holland where the Jewish populations were decimated. I think that if people view the movie, “The Scarlet and the Black” (based on a true account) with John Gielgud, Christopher Plumber and Gregory Peck, they might change their opinions of Pope Pius XII as the Church did its best to protect the Jews under the most harsh conditions. This caused me to read more into the Church and its attempt to survive Hitler. Also there were many German citizens who did their best to hide and protect their Jewish neighbors. I was married to a German lady and became very intimate with her neighbors and especially her parents. I wish that I had retained a journal containing all of their stories but being young, I neglected to do so.
LeftisruiningCanada says
That’s another good point Ray. It would be an interesting question as to what hitler’s parents might have done to help or harm Jews if they had lived through such a period of terrible persecution of Jews as was brought about by their son….
Yes, a record of everyday Germans living through that time is always of great interest. If only we thought of things like that when young!
StellaSaidSo says
@ RayJarman
‘…the Church did its best to protect the Jews…’
Sorry Ray, but the historical record does not bear out this claim. While many Germans, Catholic and Protestant, protected Jews, the Church hierarchy was more concerned with saving the RCC. Pope John Paul II knew that the RCC had failed to adequately protect the Jews, and apologised on the church’s behalf. And, despite individual acts of bravery, the French have little to be proud of, having willingly handed over thousands of Jews to be shipped to the concentration camps.
I too wish that I had taken notes, back in the 70s, when I knew personally several Holocaust survivors. I hope that someone else took the time to record their stories. They have all passed on now, of course, as have most who endured this terrible chapter in our history.
Ray Jarman says
Stella, You are correct in that many Jews were rounded up in places like Vichy France and Pétain was hung but historians such as Norman Davis think that many more would have died. Also don’t get me wrong, I don’t think that Pius XII was a saint and his condordog with Hitler bears this out but to be fair, he was elected pope in 1939. He was walking a very thin line and Vatican City is not very large. A few tanks could have wiped it off the face of the earth and then from whom and from where would the voice of reason be found. I thank the Lord that I did not live in Europe at that time and have to make some of the decisions that people made just to survive. Believe me when I say that I used to have such disdain for the Church. So much in fact that I refused to attend my daughter’s First Communion for which I have been very sorry but after reading a number of books for a second degree while I was in the military, I learned that sometimes people make the best choice from the ones that I would not wish to be forced to make. By the way I am not Catholic but my former wife was.
If you think about it, we are way off base from where this article began.
StellaSaidSo says
@ LIRC
I think you place too much credence in the veracity of Hitler’s account of his childhood.
Vienna during Hitler’s youth was extremely anti-Semitic (the Mayor at that time was excessively so), and it would be a rare person indeed who could emerge completely unscathed from the prevailing climate of suspicion and prejudice. It is interesting that in the extract which you quoted in an earlier post, Hitler denies any negative feelings toward Jews, yet describes his wariness of a particular Jewish boy. Hitler attributes this wariness to the boy’s ‘reticence’, but does not offer any insight into why the boy might have been ‘reticent’ – anti-Semitic attitudes from his peers, for example.
In ‘Mein Kampf’, Hitler describes the evolution of his political views. His anti-Semitism appears to have been well-established by the time of his service in WWI. Certainly, at the time of the book’s publication, in 1925, he saw both Communism and Judaism as great evils. Several passages in ‘Mein Kampf’ are explicitly genocidal towards the Jews, who are blamed – as they had been blamed for centuries – for all the ills of the world.
Ditto thanks for the ‘back and forth’, LIRC. I usually avoid discussing Hitler, LOL, I’ll try not to let it happen again!
LeftisruiningCanada says
“Vienna during Hitler’s youth was extremely anti-Semitic (the Mayor at that time was excessively so), and it would be a rare person indeed who could emerge completely unscathed from the prevailing climate of suspicion and prejudice”
Certainly it sounds that way, and is in hitler’s own words the place where he began to ‘see things clearly’ about ‘the Jewish problem’ (his opinion, definitely not mine).
In the context of the passage about the Jewish boy at the school, it sounds to me like he was saying the boy couldn’t be trusted, perhaps with regards to informing teachers any mischief the young hitler claims he was a ringleader of, but for reasons other than his Jewishness.
Yes, though discussing hitler isn’t exactly what one would care to do all the time, he is still the face of one of the most important political movements of the 20thC, and the head of an organization that perpetrated incredible evils upon the world and it’s people.
In trying to gain some understanding, while avoiding the pit falls involved in studying one who was surely a monster, perhaps something useful can be learned.
We probably do no wrong, anyhow.
It may be that i am placing too much trust in hitler’s own words about himself. It will need some more reading on the subject to decide that more fully, which i’m inclined to do.
Thanks and cordiality to you.
StellaSaidSo says
@ LIRC
Yes, Hitler is an unpleasant subject, but still an important one – especially in view of the fact that he is much admired in the Islamic world.
I recommend Ian Kershaw’s biography of Hitler if you’re looking to delve deeper into this area. It was originally published in 2 volumes, but there is also a one volume edition available.
Cheers!
LeftisruiningCanada says
Just incase this should be seen, i have been reading the book you mentioned, as it is viewable on googlebooks, and come to this statement which relates to our discussion above:
There is, therefore, no reliable contemporary confirmation of Hitler’s paranoid antisemitism during the Vienna period. If Hanisch is to be believed, in fact, Hitler was not antisemitic at all at this time. Beyond that, Hitler’s close comrades during the First World War also recalled that he voiced no notable antisemitic views.
https://books.google.ca/books?id=b2xlHSQcna0C&lpg=PP28&pg=PR5-IA5#v=onepage&q=paranoid&f=false
Kershaw builds to this statement from the beginning of the chapter, and concludes by saying that it is:
“likely that Hitler, as he later claimed, indeed came to hate Jews during his time in Vienna. But, probably, at this time it was still little more than a rationalization of his personal circumstances rather than a thought-out ‘world-view’. It was a personalized hatred – blaming the Jews for all the ills that befell him in a city that he associated with personal misery.”
Interestingly, there is no mention at all of any antisemsitic influence from Religious sources.
Seems a good book, and well regarded, thanks for the recommend.
Lydia Church says
Crazy. They will do anything to slander Christianity and its followers.
Just because hitler once walked by a church, they will pin the holocaust on Christians.
I studied up on this and as it turns out, hitler was anti-Christian (no surprise there), and made many anti-Christian statements. The nazi party even wrote their own Bible and they invaded the churches with their unique form of apostasy. Churches were forced to either conform or go underground. True Christians were persecuted and hauled off to concentration camps. There are many cases of that to research if interested. Martin Niemoller is a good start regarding the resistance. The conforming masses, who bought into the nazi ideology to ‘save their skin,’ denied any remainder of Christianity that they possessed. It was one or the other, as it always boils down to. Anyway, hitler was a member of the Catholic church, that is a fact I discovered. AND, the Catholic church never excommunicated him up until his death, an obvious statement of agreement with his actions. Of course most Catholics I’m sure did not feel that way, and I don’t know any now that do either. But again, Catholicism is not Christianity. (It has become a Marian cult and much more.) But any ‘church’ that goes along with the holocaust denies its Christianity on the spot. No true Christian could have any little toe in something like the holocaust. It is the polar opposite of the teachings of Jesus Christ, such as the Sermon on the Mount. And as Jesus said, if you deny Him, He denies you. Matthew 10; 32-33.
Joe says
Hitler excommunicated himself at least ten times per day. Formal excommunication only involves teaching, and Hitler did not teach the Faith.
Hitler’s family was Catholic, but Hitler did not practice Catholicism. For example, Hitler did not have a Catholic funeral. In another example, Catholics follow the 10 commandments, and the 5th command is “Thou shalt not kill”. Hitler killed all sorts of people.
Hitler persecuted the Church. For example, he destroyed the largest Catholic seminary in Europe, the Immaculates, and killed their leader, Maximilian Kolbe. This was common practice for Hitler’s party, Nazis.
If you called Benedict Arnold an American, you would be closer to the truth than calling Hitler a Catholic.
Ray Jarman says
Joe, Hitler could not have received a Christian burial even had he not renounced his Catholicism since he committed suicide as was reported. Regarding the anti-Semitism in Europe, Martin Luther had a lot of influence also.
Ray Jarman says
Terry, I hope that you pointed out one clear fact that differentiates the pernicious cult of the pedophilic mass murdering so-called prophet. In islam people are expected to die and kill for the cult leader while in Christianity, Jesus Christ died for all mankind. Never once did Jesus advocate harming anyone and while some in the past performed very bad deeds in the name of Christianity, people of the cult actually pray to their allah for the strength to slaughter in an effort to emulate their cult leader. I witnessed this while serving with the State Department in Baghdad as they would launch rockets and mortars into the Green Zone frequently right after their morning ritual and while I was in Basra, they launched a barrage of mortar and rocket fire into the airport as soon as they stopped their last prayer to allah.
Terry Gain says
Ray
I pointed out that Christ forbade killing and therefore Hitler was not a Christian. I also pointed out that the Grandd Mufti of Palestine and Hitler supported each other.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Funnily enough, hitler and his mufti are a good display of how the Left and islam tend to wind up in bed together through common purposes.
StellaSaidSo says
@ RayJarman
Ray, what do you make of the reports which appear from time to time of Hitler having survived the war, and escaped to Sth America along with many of his colleagues?
Ray Jarman says
Everything that I have read from reports from the files in the Kremlin pretty much point to Stalin obtaining the corpse after raiding the bunker that Hitler was to have committed suicide with Eva Braun and his driver attested to this also. I read that Stalin had some pretty disgusting things done to the Hitler’s corpse as Hitler made a fool of Stalin forcing Stalin to beg war material and food from the horrible capitalist Americans to survive. If you wish to visit some of the cities where many Germans after WWI (most people think it was WWII but not so), travel to Uruguay and Argentina. Both countries are beautiful and the people are extremely friendly. Also the infrastructures in the two nations are very good.
StellaSaidSo says
@ LeftisruiningCanada
Re the left and Islam in bed together, I recommend David Horowitz’s ‘Unholy Alliance’, if you have not already read it. Totalitarians have always had a magnetic attraction for each other. Justin Trudeau’s declared admiration for the regimes of China and Cuba should be a warning to Canadians as to Trudeau’s ‘vision’ for Canada. Not to mention his more recent antics. What a nightmare.
Ray Jarman says
Stella, I have only read excerpts from the book and it is on my to-read list. Your point about Trudeau and China and other communist regimes is spot on. I look at Obama and his affinity towards the Arab Spring and lock step with Morsi in Egypt which exemplifies your connection. Most Cordially, Ray
LeftisruiningCanada says
Agreed Stella and Ray, JT admires their dictatorships. Our grinning unperson is a threat to everything the US and Canada have ever stood for
I’ll check that book out, i like D Horowitz. Thanks!
Voytek Gagalka says
Their referencing to bogus statistics are mind boggling. By such methods of careful selection of data one could prove almost anything he/she likes. Similar method was (and is still) used for instance to prove “global warming.” Ask Al Gore about that!
StellaSaidSo says
‘…bogus statistics…’
‘There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.’ Al Gore is the supreme expert on all three. But this useful idiot is a serious contender.
Wellington says
Hmmm. Let’s see here. Over 32,000 documented Islamic terrorist attacks worldwide just since 9/11 (which doesn’t include all the many tens and tens of thousands of INTENDED Islamic terrorist attacks that never came off because of 1) security forces around the world thwarting them; and 2) the massive incompetence, demonstrated ad nauseam though also risibly, by so many Islamic terrorist wannabes).
By contrast, so-called “right-wing extremists” have caused a very small fraction of this 32,000+ figure. Moreover, and notice closely, those like this silly journalist at Rolling Stone (which itself is a very silly magazine) never, ever mention or refer to “left-wing extremists,” respecting which many exist, for instance at numerous college campuses across America (e.g., in Berkeley, California where lefties caused a lot of damage just last year).
Conclusion: Jessica Pishko is just another useful idiot. And just contemplate for a moment what this foolish person knows about the Koran, the hadiths, the sira, the many schools of Islamic theology, both Sunni and Shiite, and the sorry-ass record of Islamic history. Why, I’d bet a six-pack she probably knows just that little bit about Islam, which would only confirm again that a little knowledge is a bad thing, so that she repeats to others that medieval Muslim Spain was an oasis of tolerance and enlightenment. Oh yeah, just another useful idiot for malevolence, in this case the longest-lived and best disguised malevolence of all time, Islam by name. Shame on this woman. Deep shame.
gravenimage says
Wellington, here’s more from the vacuous Jessica Pishko, ranting about “Islamophobia”:
“This Islamophobic Conspiracy Theorist Is Training America’s Cops”
https://www.thenation.com/article/this-islamaphobic-conspiracy-theorist-is-training-americas-cops/
She’s upset that John Guandolo is saying anything negative *about ISIS*. She also seems to be critical of his opposing “Honor Killing”. She is outraged that the Muslim Brotherhood might be considered a terrorist group. She considers concerns about beheadings to be “absurd”.
I just found out this moral idiot is based in my hometown of San Francisco. Wish I could say I am surprised…
CRUSADER says
Makes her a real Dhimmi!
Hey, did you know the latest news on SFexit?
“Mass” migration OUT from the Blue Paradise of San Francisco…..?
gravenimage says
A lot of people *are* moving out of San Francisco, CRUSADER–but it is mostly because housing prices are so high. The area is still very much in demand.
I’m not sure we would be able to stay in the area ourselves if we hadn’t bought a house here twenty years ago.
Wellington says
Thanks for that link, gravenimage. Wow, she really is a fool. And once again I have to wonder what this woman really knows about Islam. I would guess next to nothing. She probably doesn’t even know the difference between the words “sura” and “sira.” In essence she’s an ignorant apologist for a belief system which is a mortal enemy of liberty.
gravenimage says
Definitely a fool, Wellington.
Joe says
They are saying that the 75% applies to America. I think the percentage is a lie that has no basis in fact. Do they have a list? I can’t think of anyone who killed because they were a “white supremacist”. Perhaps the kid who shot up the church, but he was trying to start a race war. I’m not sure he saw himself as better than the blacks. As for Muslims, thousands of Americans have died because of Islam. Outside of the USA, about 275 million people have died from Islam and about 250 million of those were after the fighting stopped. I bet those numbers were not in the Rolling Stone story.
Sam says
“liberalism is a mental disease and if not stopped out we’d be living in a war and oppression!”
It is really true. I have liberal “friends” and it is really a waste of time to discuss politics, religion, human nature, you name it, if it involves facts that we can see, touched by it or realize by common sense they would shut you down.
I still don’t know how you can have a healthy discussion with a liberal. Well i gave up long time ago. It is waste of time and not good for my blood pressure. So i help real fighters like Robert and Pam. They know how to fight these liberal
Shmoovie says
Agree on the level of frustration caused by attempts to discuss reality with leftists. It’s depressing to realize how little they know post 9/11, and how little they WANT to know. Offers I’ve made to lend a volume of Robert Spencer or Brigitte Gabriel have gotten a quick scan of the chapter titles, then a scolding with remarks about ‘all the nice muslims I/we know’ and ‘maybe the women like wearing those things’.
Then the conversation gets back to the important stuff: wine, the cold weather and football.
gravenimage says
Sam and Shmoovie, I know just how you guys feel.
StellaSaidSo says
Likewise. Have crossed quite a few names off the Xmas card list, LOL.
LR says
When it comes to certain things like psychological warfare with ‘lefties’, one needs to be tactical…Give, or suggest books/articles/videos by A Hirsi Ali, or a woman ex-Muslim, or a gay ex-Muslim….Sorry, Robert, and Brigitte already have too much ‘bad press’ some lefties have absorbed…
It is true that many women in some cases do choose to wear the hijab…I don’t bother with that issue,..I go straight for the ‘free speech’, FGM, Honor killings, death for apostacy, etc…(Many ‘lefties’ are artists,/writers, or support the arts, hit them with the problem of the reality of jail, or death penalty for their kind of free speech, and it makes them grimace…Many do know about the oppression in Islam…they are just busy doing their life like everyone else)…
Don’t give up…Sure there are hopeless cases, but that doesn’t mean it’s hopeless…
infidel numero uno says
Obviously this liberal nutbag is demented……way overdue for her appointment with the man in the little white coat. I’m sure they’re holding a rubber room with her name on it in the nearest booby hatch.
VRWC member77 says
“And then there’s the fact that deaths from terror attacks in the U.S. are statistically much lower than other forms of homicide. On that last point, the list of international terrorism defendants fails to distinguish cases based on threat.”
They are ISLAMIC TERROR ATTACKS……..I’m so sick of these bit-brained moronic leftist bints who parrot this theme. Cut off the billions of dollars spent on PREVENTING SUCCESSFUL ISLAMIC TERRORIST ATTACKS and you’ll see the body count soar.
MFritz says
Just marry a muslim, blondie, and/or move to a muslim country to find out for yourself how “liberating” islam really is.
Sons of Liberty says
Exactly !
Steve K says
this is what politifact says
http://static.politifact.co…
106 killed by supposed right wing extremists 119 killed by Islamic extremists.
If you were to include 9-11 (2996) which they left out (on purpose) it would make 106 killed by supposed right wing extremists and 3115 killed by Islamic extremists.
3115 to 106 not even close
Bear in mind muslims are only 1% of the US population. This makes an average Muslim nearly 3000 more times more liklely than the average american to commit an extremist murder.
gravenimage says
And often “attacks by right-wing extremists” just means “some white people committing crimes”.
WPM says
True I wonder how many of those” right wing extremes” attacks were just outlaw biker gangs killing over drug turf wars or killing nonmembers who get in their way?
WPM says
Non members being police officers, undercover agents ,and other agents of the government. If they are killed by the biker gang it puts the act as a terror act{the leaders of the gang are white as most members} ,to be lumped into the garbage statics that the governments uses. The local officials do this to get more funding for their own law enforcement agencies from the feds. The left pick up the report and says look right wing terror groups while the groups are really organize crime groups {about money } not right wing terror ..
Norger says
Even if you stick to the post 9/11 numbers, the count is off in several respects. Every borderline case (e.g. mentally disturbed white people with vague grievances against police or government) gets lumped in as “right wing” terrorism, but the Beltway snipers don’t count as Islamic terrorism. “Honor”killings don’t count as Islamic terrorism. Americans killed outside of the US by Islamic terrorism don’t count as Islamic terrorism. And be sure to ignore those severely injured, but not killed, by Islamic terrorist attacks, such as the scores maimed in the Boston Marathon bombing, the people stabbed in St. Cloud etc.
Muslims make up 1% of the population, by Rolling Stone’s standards “right wingers” make up perhaps 50% if being a Trump supporter makes one “right wing.” Let’s be charitable and say that “extreme” right wingers make up 10% of the population; would Rolling Stone admit that the incidence of terrorism is 10 times higher among American Muslims than it is among extreme “right wingers?” What about foiled terrorist plots; the fact that at one recent point US law enforcement authorities had over 1000 open ISIS investigations in all 50 states; does Rolling Stone care to offer any analysis there? What about the fact that if you look at terrorism on a global basis, virtually all terrorism is Islamic.There are none so blind as those who will not see.
StellaSaidSo says
+1
gravenimage says
Good post.
Roger says
Something seriously wrong with your brain Jessica…Like they say; ‘There are none so blind as those that have eyes and still don’t see’. Some people just can’t see the forest for the trees. Wake up girl, before you find yourself a victim one day, of the so-called ‘people’ you are defending.
Halal Bacon says
well if she has embraced Satan aka allah, then she is correct – islam is the only thing left after the muslims destroy everything else
Undaunted says
Looks like she’s been smacked on the noggin with a shovel… or should be.
Champ says
Islam is a race and “right-wing extremists” are bigger threat than jihadis
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wow what a whopper lie! AND …what’s wrong with those whom *believe* this LIE? Mind-blowing!
Mateen Elass says
I’ll have an extra-large fries to go along with that double Whopper…
Champ says
😀
Peter says
No real surprise to me, that a continually discredited magazine like RS would have no qualms about running a story riddled with distortions, a pitiful habit they are well known for, and use a woefully ill informed, pathetic self promoter to deliver it.
As in topology, where a donut can be morphed into a coffee cup, so to in the “World of complete denial” the truth can be distorted into abject bullshit, as is the case with Pishko’s garbage.
The last sentence in her article —————
“”How did a CBP analyst or research team even find it reasonable to recommend that the government surveil all Sunni Muslim immigrants in America, of African, South Asian, Middle Eastern origin?”
That says it all for me, she has her own version of reality, which is completely disjoint from the real world, a view she’s not about to change, no matter how much proof there is to the contrary.
As Sam pointed out above, people with a mindset like Pishko’s are just a waste of time trying to reason with.
R Cole says
When the Left talk about Islam they show how ill-informed they really are.
Love this bit:
“Stopping hate and violence begins with recognizing and understanding where it comes from.”…
…except when the violence and hatred are from Islam. Or when it’s an Islamic supremacist.
This is where the Left’s identity politics comes into play and the playing field is no longer equal. It’s racism claiming to be non-racist. If the victims of San Bernardino or the Pulse nightclub were Muslims, the Left would’ve had a very different response.
Look at France, Islamo-socialist types argued for their protected Islamic class, where concerns expressed over extremism was labeled racism. Now the fears the Left lampooned as racist have been borne out in reality. Because of the threat of terrorism, France has been under a state of emergency, where the troops have been stationed on the streets for the past two years. And it’s not because of the Le Pens.
People have heard enough of this Leftist waffle. That’s why the US has a new Commander in Chief. Not someone who is going to wheel out a piano and play the John Lennon Imagine song after every Islamic terrorist attack, their policy to look the other way, has allowed.
::
The Left have rationalized Islamic terror to the degree, they believe the victims are somehow deserving. Maybe the writer should have spared a thought for fellow journalists at Charlie Hebdo. Or maybe, she believes that a pro-jihadist article might mean the terrorists, come to her news outlet last.
From the Left, it’s not let them eat cake. It’s let them be bombed, [mowed down or hacked to death.]
StellaSaidSo says
Excellent post, R Cole.
gravenimage says
Yes–fine post.
Eric jones says
Ms. Pishko will not acknowledge the Islamic threat until it comes close to her or someone she knows. The denial of those who live and move in exclusive circles. She has no concern for those less privileged than her, or those who are not as protected as her.
Eric
No Fear says
Even if Islamo-terror accounts for 25% of all deaths, that is a lot of deaths for a religion that takes up 2% of the population.
dumbledoresasrmy says
Yep. THAT’s the salient point. Anyone who has done basic probability-and-statistics as part of high-school mathematics should be able to work that out.
Skeezix says
It also doesn’t take into account that Muslims are less than 1% of the US population
gravenimage says
True, No Fear and Skeezix.
Ren says
If islam is a race then Jessica Pishko is a man.
LeftisruiningCanada says
She is if she says she is….
gravenimage says
Rolling Stone’s Jessica Pishko: Islam is a race and “right-wing extremists” are bigger threat than jihadis
…………………………..
What crap. As noted, Islam is not a race–it is an ideology.
More:
Anyway, why is Trump’s travel ban “dumb policy”? Because it “ignores the growing threat of U.S.-born non-Muslim terrorists.
…………………………..
Even if this were true–which is very questionable–this is like saying we should ignore rape because it does not address theft, which is also an issue.
And the fact is that there are many more non-Muslims than Muslims in the US–they make up less than 1% of the population. That they are such a threat–out of all proportion to their numbers. This alone shows what a threat Muslims present.
Norger says
Yes, this is totally illogical. In the words of Douglas Murray, this is “whataboutery.” To use another analogy, it’s like saying we shouldn’t attempt to cure cancer because that won’t help with diabetes.
Billy Chickens says
If Islam is a race then Catholicism is a race which makes anyone who is anti-Catholic, iipso facto, a racist.
I bet What’s Her Name up there in the article (never heard of her before) is anti-Catholic, therefore she is a racist.
Westman says
Perhaps she could explain to the world why Indians and Pakistanis are now different races by her definition of Muslim as a race. Let’s hope she never goes i4nto the field of genetics.
Mark Berlinger says
Adidas and cell phone migrants are not coming to the West to integrate. They are not refugees from a war zone by any definition. They are invaders. They come to conquer.
Cheer Bear Girl says
Stupid woman doesn’t realize she’ll be raped or killed by the Muslims she is defending. Morons like her are a special kind of stupid.
mortimer says
There is NO PUNISHMENT in Sharia law for RAPING a non-Muslim.
Terry Gain says
And the punishment for complaining about being raped is death. This is a religion? No effing way. It is satanic.
gravenimage says
Infidel women have been imprisoned in the Muslim world for reporting a rape.
mortimer says
Jessica Pishko has not studied the primary source texts of Islam (doesn’t even know the names of those texts) nor has she read manuals of Sharia law nor has she read the history of Islamic persecutions of ‘others’ nor has she read the history of the Islamic slave trade (the biggest slave trade in history) nor has she read the canonical commentaries of Islam which are the basis of Sharia law, and yet, preposterously she presents herself as an EXPERT on Islam.
Jessica Pishko is a SPONTANEOUS expert on Islam, inventing ideas OUT OF THE CREATIVE SPONANEITY OF HER IMAGINATION. Her ideas are WITHOUT BASIS and are therefore spurious and absurd.
How can Rolling Stone pay someone to make up their own facts and draw unsupported conclusions?
CRUSADER says
Can anyone really imagine Islam originating something as stupendous as the Olympics and what they ostensibly stand for?
Citius
Altius
Fortius
( a bit odd that’s all in Latin, considering the origin being Greek….but at least it ain’t Arabic!)
LR says
OK, let’s say ‘right wing’ terrorism is much worse….Guess what?….I WANT TO KEEP IT THAT WAY!…I want our leaders to be extra careful, and not allow just anybody into the country, and make things even worse! And that includes, Jihadi’s, or Jihadi, wanna bees. And since anyone can become a Muslim, Jessica, guess what!…It’s not racist…
CRUSADER says
Dennis Prager keeps reminding spineless Liberals that the LEFT is far worse an enemy than the Right can ever be….
Terry Gain says
Anyone can become a Muslim but no one can leave Islam without putting their life in danger
Gjallarhornet says
God, to think of that one time Rolling Stone was actually cool.
Well, sort of. For if you go back to their heydays, the seventies, you will see that the root was actually present all long. The seeds of today’s empty headed political preaching was sown before the first edition of the mag went into print.
Even then they were not content we writing about *music*, but had the thought police in them already present in the hearts and minds many of their writers. That the magazine kept up the cred for some time is due to the the fact that not all their writers were like that, but lots of good records were given bad reviews by them. For not having the ‘right’ message (whatever that is). Making a killer record? Sorry, not good enough, you have be aboard the bandwagon of dogmatic leftism.
The full blown debacle we see in the Rolling Stone of today is thus just the logical conclusion for them: All musical and street cred gone, they are reduced to non-thinking contemporary moralists, waving the red flag at anybody that steps outside the orthodoxy that happens to be popular at the moment,
duh swami says
The racist like the dog, always smell their own first…right Jessica?
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
Islam is not racist, it is universal for all races, Whites, blacks and colored. Jesus he was sent for Israelites only, not for Akum dogs
StellaSaidSo says
Read your ‘holy’ books, Ibrahim. Islam is racist to the core.
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
stellasaidso, prophet muhammad explicitly stated in his farewell sermon that Arabs are not superior to non-Arabs nor non-Arabs superior to Arabs and Whites are not superior to blacks and blacks are not superior to Whites or colored. where is racism then ?
StellaSaidSo says
Scroll down. I listed several examples, 10:37am.
gravenimage says
The “Prophet” called Blacks “raisin heads”, and “Arab” Africans target Blacks for enslavement to this day in places like Sudan. Mohammedans like Ibrahim itace muhammed hope we haven’t noticed this.
LeftisruiningCanada says
” Jesus he was sent for Israelites only,”
Like many muslims, ahmed deedat included, you really do struggle with reading comprehension don’t you Ibrahim.
You refer to an earlier saying of Jesus in Matthew 15, which was true – during his earthly ministry.
If you had bothered to reach the end of the same book, you would have found that this same Jesus told his followers to go and make disciples of all the nations. (matt 28:19)
This is also in line with John 10:16, where Jesus mentions His other sheep not of the fold of Israel. Acts 10:34 and onwards covers this idea in practice. Romans 11 too.
I know you don’t care about being truthful, but there it is.
gravenimage says
Muslims claim that the Bible was “corrupted”, so they can disavow anything they find inconvenient.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Yeah, it’s a useful trick isn’t.
LeftisruiningCanada says
*it*
Ray Jarman says
Ibrahim, I am breaking a vow that I made to myself but I cannot hold back. You are completely correct in stating that the cult is not racist. Since the founding of the pernicious cult of the pedophilic mass murdering caravan robbing cult by your pathetic clown, islam has never discriminated against the slaughter of anyone, even themselves. I think that you should move to Maiduguri, welcome Boko Haram and witness first hand their wonderful equal opportunity for all to die for allah.
Infidel says
I will take living next to the KKK anytime… (even if I do not agree with their philosophy) At least they do not Kill U… All the KKK want is to be just left alone and I have no probs with that… KKK does not have a global WHITE CALIPHATE agenda… they are pretty much a local pheno….. But these vile creatures are a different matter all2gether..
Terry Gain says
How long is the KKK’s “holy book” and does it command that its members kill all who refuse to join or who have left the plantation? How many places of worship does the KKK have? How many countries has the KKK invaded? Does the KKK have a prophet and master plan to impose KKK law on the whole country? Does the KKK whine and complain it is being discriminated against? Does the KKK claim that those who rightly condemn the KKK are engaging in hate speech which should be outlawed. Tell me more about this KKK threat. When are its 6 members going to have their next meeting?
gravenimage says
Terrry, there *is* a Ku Klux Klan “holy book” of sorts–and it is–*no sh*t*–called the Kloran.
This is not a joke. It was indeed loosely based on the Koran.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kloran
https://archive.org/stream/Kloran/kloranwhiteknights_djvu.txt
Not much used anymore, even by Klansmen–still disturbing, though.
I very much take your points, though. The Klan today is nothing like the threat of Islam.
Gjallarhornet says
islam is not a race and no matter how much Rolling Stone yells, you are not a racist for criticizing it.
Even if they could look you and make a law that stated that if you try to do so, you’re a racist (they would like that!)… you are not.
The fallacy in their thinking is evident to everybody. Except their editorial board.
But ‘What about their readers?’. What readers?
Gjallarhornet says
Typo: *look you, should be *lock you up
AP says
What a goof ball! Such a lack of facts. Shun her and her rag!
Curious Observer says
The thinking world owes Robert Spencer and others like him a great debt of gratitude for exposing the phony religion that goes by the name of “Islam”.
Terry Gain says
Yes. Spencer is today’s Churchill.
Jayell says
You must be wrong there. I believe that Mr Trump recently said that Theresa May will be the new Churchill. Very odd. I normally have the greatest admiration for Mr. Trump.
gravenimage says
Hear, hear, Curious Observer!
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
Stellasaidso, The Quran stated that all human races are from the same family (Adam and Eve). prophet muhammad said all human races are equal :Arabs are not superior to non-Arabs nor non-Arabs superior to Arabs, Whites are not superior to blacks nor blacks superior to Whites or colored. where do you find racism in Islamic holy books ?
Jayell says
Hello again, Mr. Muhammed. So the Qu’ran is very egalitarian, civilised and politically-correct, is it?
Quran-(55:72): “Hur (beautiful, fair females) guarded in pavilions;” (that’s not being very nice to darker females, by the way);
Quran-(55:70-77): “ In each there shall be virgins chaste and fair….dark eyed virgins sheltered in their tents whom neither man or Jinn have touched before…”
Narrated Anas bin Malik: Allah’s Apostle said, “You should listen to and obey, your ruler even if he was an Ethiopian (black) slave whose head looks like a raisin.”
Sahih Bukhari 9:89:256, See Also Sahih Bukhari 1:11:662, Sahih Bukhari 1:11:664
I heard the Apostle say: ‘Whoever wants to see Satan should look at Nabtal!’ He was a black man with long flowing hair, inflamed eyes, and dark ruddy cheeks…. Allah sent down concerning him: ‘To those who annoy the Prophet there is a painful doom.” [9:61] ” Gabriel came to Muhammad and said, ‘If a black man comes to you his heart is more gross than a donkey’s *****.
It is also written that Allah will BLACKEN the faces of the unbelievers.(Quran, Sura 39:60)”
I’m sure that there must be more.
My thanks to an ex-muslim for providing these quotes on the internet. They were easy enough to find. Perhaps you should try a little better with your homework, Mr Muhammed.
Kadok says
18,000 deadly terror attacks committed explicitly in the name of Islam in just the last ten years. (Other religions combined for perhaps a dozen or so). Muhammad, the prophet of Islam, had people killed for insulting him or for criticizing his religion. This included women.
Muslims are told to emulate the example of Muhammad.
Muhammad said in many places that he has been “ordered by Allah to fight men until they testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is his messenger.” In the last nine years of his life, he ordered no less than 65 military campaigns to do exactly that.
Muhammad inspired his men to war with the basest of motives, using captured loot, sex and a gluttonous paradise as incentives. He beheaded captives, enslaved children and raped women captured in battle. Again, Muslims are told to emulate the example of Muhammad.
Kadok says
After Muhammad died, the people who lived with him and knew his religion best immediately fell into war with each other.
Fatima, Muhammad’s favorite daughter, survived the early years among the unbelievers at Mecca safe and sound, yet died of stress from the persecution of fellow Muslims only six months after her father died. She even miscarried Muhammad’s grandchild after having her ribs broken by the man who became the second caliph.
It was this same caliph, Umar, who ordered the death of the first convert to Islam at Medina, an elderly leader who became a close companion to Muhammad and proved his worth in battle. Sa’d ibn Ubadah was killed after a failed bid to be caliph.
Fatima’s husband Ali, who was the second convert to Islam and was raised like a son to Muhammad, fought a civil war against an army raised by Aisha, Muhammad’s favorite wife – and one whom he had said was a “perfect woman.” 10,000 Muslims were killed in a single internal battle waged less than 25 years after Muhammad’s death.
Three of the first four Muslim rulers (caliphs) were murdered. All of them were among Muhammad’s closest companions. The third caliph was killed by allies of the son of the first (who was murdered by the fifth caliph a few years later, then wrapped in the skin of a dead donkey and burned). The fourth caliph (Ali) was stabbed to death after a bitter dispute with the fifth. The fifth caliph went on to poison one of Muhammad’s two favorite grandsons. The other grandson was later beheaded by the sixth caliph.
The infighting and power struggles between Muhammad’s family members, closest companions and their children only intensified with time. Within 50 short years of Muhammad’s death, even the Kaaba, which had stood for centuries under pagan religion, lay in ruins from internal Muslim war…
And that’s just the fate of those within the house of Islam!
Ray Jarman says
+++1
Kadok says
Muhammad directed Muslims to wage war on other religions and bring them into submission to Islam. Within the first few decades following his death, his Arabian companions invaded and conquered Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist and Zoroastrian lands. A mere 25 years after Muhammad’s death, Muslim armies had captured land and people within the modern borders of over 28 countries outside of Saudi Arabia.
Muslims continued their Jihad against other religions for 1400 years, checked only by the ability of non-Muslims to defend themselves. To this day, not a week goes by that Islamic fundamentalists do not attempt to kill Christians, Jews, Hindus and Buddhists explicitly in the name of Allah.
None of these other religions are at war with each other.
Islam is the only religion that has to retain its membership by formally threatening to kill anyone who leaves. This is according to the example set by Muhammad.
Islam teaches that non-Muslims are less than fully human. Muhammad said that Muslims can be put to death for murder, but that a Muslim could never be put to death for killing a non-Muslim.
The Quran never once speaks of Allah’s love for non-Muslims, but there are hundreds of verses that speak of Allah’s cruelty toward and hatred of non-Muslims.
“Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar!”
(The last words from the cockpit of Flight 93)
StellaSaidSo says
‘Where do you find racism in Islamic holy books?’
Does the term ‘raisin head’ ring a bell? Blacks are clearly regarded as inferior in Islam.
‘Do not bring black into your pedigree’ says the poohbah Mohammed in a hadith.
There is a hadith in which the poohbah consoles an Ethiopian woman who laments her racial inferiority. The poohbah says ‘Don’t worry love, you’ll be white in Paradise’ (I’m paraphrasing of course).
In another hadith, poohbah points to a black man and says to his pals, ‘if you want to see Satan, check out this dude’ (or words to that effect).
Early Islam was vicious toward blacks, and TO THIS DAY African blacks are enslaved by Muslims.
StellaSaidSo says
Of course, when it comes to slaughtering people, Islam does not discriminate: any kafir is fair game.
gravenimage says
Grimly true.
Kadok says
How much or many verses would you like? I have listed about ten reasons as to why islam is not a religion of peace, Islam is a social system, judicial system, and political system which includes geo-political aspirations – the conquest and administration of territory. Which puts islam into the classification of a radical government.
Kadok says
I used to get this magazine and I actually enjoyed some of it, then it started being filled with crap laced leftist writing from a bunch of 25 and 30 year old juvenile delinquents who think they know what life is all about while still living at home with mommy and daddy, 90% of the writers for this magazine can’t open up a can of soup with a can opener, and yet they want to tell everyone how to do everything, how dumb the prior generation was and how smart they are. We guess what the writers for this magazine haven’t a clue about life or the people in this world, they think everybody is a live and let live group, they believe it is radical Christians cutting off heads and pushing gay people off buildings in the middle east, they are so ignorant of the facts and blind to the evidence that is in front of them, if it was a snake it would bite them and in the end IT WILL, they will be dumb founded as the dreamer they called friend shoots them for their weed or the muslim they called fiend stabs them for no apparent reason…….. but it will be to late when they realize their mistakes.
Ray Jarman says
Every time I read these comments about the RS, I keep remembering Dr. Hook’s “On the Cover of the Rolling Stone.” I wonder if he would want to be associated with the Tsarnaev brothers.
Kadok says
This article by Rebecca Bynum sums up islam .
religion supplies our basic world-view concerning the nature of reality. If we were to plot belief systems on a graph – on one side are religions which view God as good and the universe as a benevolent place – in the middle we have the view that there is no God and the universe is a pitiless and indifferent place, the view of material determinism which is the direction toward which our society is tending. On the other side of the view of God as malevolent and the universe is a vicious and unpredictable place – that God enjoys our suffering. This is where Islam lies.
The reason we can assert that the morality of Islam is inverted is that Islam consistently elevates material over spiritual considerations. That is, it elevates the material obedience to the dictates of the Islamic doctrine above all consideration of Truth or Goodness. Morality, conformity and even legality are all one and the same in Islam.
Norger says
I love this one too:
“a young man from Uzbekistan drove into a bike path in Manhattan, killing eight people,…. “ The “young man” was a self-described devout Muslim, whose first name, Sayfullo, means Sword of Allah. After his arrest, he wanted an ISIS flag hung in his hospital room. But to this author, he’s just “a young man from Uzbekistan” who apparently took a wrong turn onto the bike path.
By the way Jessica, if you’ve been to NYC lately I’m sure you’ve noticed those barriers all over the place preventing vehicles from driving on the sidewalks. Those aren’t for right wing extremists.
Politicianophobia says
The thighing master returns.
JAK says
If that weasel had shit for brains, that would be a giant step forward for her
Politicianophobia says
Islam cannot accept any mixing with jahiliyyah, either in its concept or in the modes of living which are derived from this concept.
Rich says
FIRST DEFINE “RIGHT WING” EXTREMISTS!
Do that and you will be exposed as a liar!
born here or overseas an islamist is an islamist…..
again….who are these right wing groups??
I BET THAT I WILL HEAR CRICKETS!!!!
Politicianophobia says
Why is it that so many lives have been ruined all in the name of the religion of peace? It’s a heart ache, nothing but a heart ache, hits you when it’s too late, hits you when your down, it’s a fool game, nothing but a fool game…………….
Hogdude says
Idea for targeting radical Islamic terrorists. Two thin circles outside a dot on a cloak.
Politicianophobia says
Collaborators are everywhere, feckless fool Justine Trudeau insists “Islam is not incompatible with Western democracy even though Muslims will tell you there is no law but Shari’ah. Globalism is grand.
Geppetto says
Look at her face. The picture of smug, faux, intellectual superiority written all over it. Attempting to reason with this woman on the basis of factual, irrefutable evidence will be an exercise in futility. She and her cohort are about confirming their irrational, unjustified, “intellectual” superiority and damn the “irrelevant” evidence and facts if they don’t fit the inflexible narrative.
tgusa says
Its a madhouse over there on the left and getting crazier every day. Looney white leftist females in America have more rights than more than 95 percent of women around the world and look what they are doing with those rights. The oppressed women of the world must really hate their guts and I can’t blame those women for that. These looney white leftist females are an absolute disgrace. I am ashamed and disgusted that I have to live in the same country with them.
billdeserthills says
Whenever these pitiful numbers are quoted I like to remind folks that since 9/11 moslems have committed over 30,000 terrorist events–It’s easy to see with whom the murderous terrorism dangers lie
LR says
Everytime articles like this appear…Those knowledgeable about Islamic history need to send letters and set them straight…A lot of letters…
Kiki says
Islam isn’t a race–middle easterners, blacks, whites, asians, etc are all members. I read somewhere that Malcolm X even described going to Mecca and his experience of praying alongside dark-haired, brown-eyed people as well as blonde haired, blue-eyed people.
S J C says
Moslems are NOT A RACE, and Islam is not a religion you loony apologist appeaser.
Islam is a “tyrannical, violence-ridden, misogynistic socio-political IDEOLOGY, that masquerades as a religion. It is also totally incompatible with all civilised westernised countries, and specifically in relation to the values we hold dear, such as our right to freedom of speech, democracy, and human rights. Moslems who choose to follow Islam and Sharia Law to the letter have one agenda, and that is to take over every country they invade to subjugate the host population to their barbarian, 7th century primitive way of living, which is intolerant of all other faiths and cultures.
KJW says
Why haven’t these folks learned that a religion is not a race? They just look dumb. Here’s another thing such people as her don’t include-Americans killed overseas in terrorist attacks and not just tourists, which have been killed in France, India, England, North Africa, and the Middle East. I was watching a documentary on Saudi Arabia last night and was reminded that:
The American compound was attacked by radical Islamists-three compounds of foreign workers in May 2003.
In 1995 4 Americans died-military contractors and one soldier when Bin Laden set off a bomb in Riyadh.
BBC cameraman filming in the street was killed, an American engineer was killed in his garage; a US defense contractor was killed outside his home.
Even in Saudi Arabia where they acknowledge they are filled with radicals and hardline clerics, they also had 20,000 young Saudis who went Afghanistan thinking they could defeat a superpower. They were also embarrassed that 15 of 19 9/11 attackers were Saudis. They also have Saudis funding Islamic schools, investments in America (including water and school textbook companies), and a Saudi medical student became a suicide bomber.
They know their religion well, and Wahhabism and Salafism is really no matter since the Qur’an, and in English!, has enough radicalism-it’s political and radical.
So, Americans are targeted everywhere. The US is a big country, but the mainstream news doesn’t mention everything such as the Muslim guy who went in a restaurant called Nazareth in Ohio and started slashing at patrons with a machete. They don’t report all the “hate speech” from Muslims in America they post on Facebook and in their mosques, such as anti-gay speech, American society, and jihad which is incumbent on all Muslims per the Qur’an, and they say if you can’t do jihad yourself, then supporting others doing jihad (which is about every Muslim organization) then that can qualify as jihad.
We have sleeper cells and bad people being trained on our soil. In Europe, the powers that be have created a powder keg while knowing who is in their countries. They knew that mosques have stockpiled weapons. Sweden welcomes back ISIS joiners-it’s crazy. To ignore Americans killed overseas doesn’t quite tell the big picture of the danger of Islamic fundamentalism all over the world.
I think the focus on right-wing groups is more ideological in that they will get more supporters. They peg ordinary Europeans who are Islamonauseated and against mass immigration and it’s a smear. The powers that be don’t care as they have their agenda. They don’t seem to get on the case of the fascist Antifa members and their brand of violence and causing fights and riots. When domestic terrorism was bad in the 1970s it was left-wing groups-the Weather Underground planting bombs, the Black Panthers, hijacking planes for ransom, etc. Luckily only ~120 people died due to those things.
The Left *thinks* they have good intentions, but it clearly “the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.” They also ignore things like honor killings, internal Muslim community pressures and Muslims being told not to assimilate, a Somalian community who doesn’t want to take Measles vaccines because of a pork element thereby putting their community and children at risk, female genital mutilation happening inside America, and that Muslims are using them as useful idiots.
Muslims have more in common with Christian fundamentalists, which I remember one Muslim saying so. Oddly, an American said to me on You Tube that it is the Religious Right who wants Christian sharia law. I gave him a list of things that the religious Right has not asked for with legislation that Muslims advocate for and things sharia law prohibits. He couldn’t rebut except for gay marriage and abortion. I don’t hear the Christian Fundamentalist Right calling for women to wear hijabs and cover up, they aren’t pushing banning casinos nor alcohol, and there are very few dry towns left in the US.
Really, liberals are acting incredibly stupid, but I realize too that politicians and universities are brainwashing them, and pushing a shame tactic, which is what Hillary said when the OIC wanted a universal blasphemy law: She said, “We can’t do that…we’ll just use good ol shaming instead.” She did not stand up for free speech nor did Obama. Liberals just blindly suck it up-even gay liberals! The focus is much on terrorism when it should be more about Muslim hijra, Muslims voting for Muslims, they’re getting into government positions that will sway votes, and pushing for Islamic sharia law in their communities, thus parallel “states,” and even Muslims in Australia have asked for a separate state.
Apparently liberals want to just stand by while other people in the country live and follow Allah’s law which is against liberalism. I’m at the point where I despise Congress, and even Republicans aren’t a big help-they are so cowed. I’m sure Rolling Stone was pressured to write this tripe since it’s geared towards young people. That she uses the word “race” is dishonest and probably to feed the word bigotry. Actually, the ummah considers themselves as a kind of race and state, but there are Muslims of all races and colors. The word racist has been watered down. Look on YT for videos of black Muslims being discriminated against by other Arabs who are lighter such as in the Arabian peninsula and North Africa. One girl says they call them abd, which means slave in Arabic, let alone slavery in Mauritania by lighter Arabs and Islamic clerics who still say “slavery has always been part of Islam” and they are a problem in changing the laws. So, black people who criticize Islam are racist too? Ex-Muslims?
Mark says
Former Muslim confirms Islam is not a race
https://youtu.be/KXGE2eBUdlQ
Richie says
The left never has a word to say about the mistreatment of gay people and women in Islamic countries. Plus they never denounce antisemitism