“We, the United Kingdom, produced Jihadi John. We, the United Kingdom, produced his other acolytes around him in the so-called Jihadi Beatles. Something in our cities and towns, something in the atmosphere within our communities in this country have produced the most infamous terrorists, at least in my lifetime. We need to start asking that question: what is it in our culture, in our cities, in our towns that is producing these sort of monsters.”
Good idea. Let’s not only ask the question. Let’s answer it. “What is it in our culture, in our cities, in our towns that is producing these sort of monsters”? Easy: it’s Islam’s doctrines of jihad warfare against unbelievers, preached in mosques in the UK. But Islamic supremacists and jihadists always deflect responsibility, claiming that jihad mass murderers are only reacting to the evils supposedly perpetrated against Muslims by the Infidels. Nawaz here is feeding that perception and the implication that Muslims are being victimized, and that it is all the fault of non-Muslims, of “Islamophobia” to which the poor dears are simply reacting.
“We, the United Kingdom, produced Jihadi John.” No. Muslims within the United Kingdom produced Jihadi John. That is not an unimportant distinction. Why is Nawaz eliding it? Odd stance for a renowned “moderate” to take.
“Britain Must Take Responsibility For The Jihadi Beatles, Insists Maajid Nawaz,” LBC, February 13, 2018:
Maajid Nawaz insisted the so-called “Jihadi Beatles” should be tried in Britain rather than Syria… because they are British….
Speaking on LBC as he stood in for James O’Brien, he said: “We, the United Kingdom, produced Jihadi John. We, the United Kingdom, produced his other acolytes around him in the so-called Jihadi Beatles.
“Something in our cities and towns, something in the atmosphere within our communities in this country have produced the most infamous terrorists, at least in my lifetime.
“We need to start asking that question: what is it in our culture, in our cities, in our towns that is producing these sort of monsters.”
LeftisruiningCanada says
What disgusting comments from this slick-on-the-outside, nasty-on-the-inside lying media jihadi.
Not only is he appropriating the entire United Kingdom with all of his “our” and “we”, but he never speaks the name of “that which shall not be mentioned”.
You can see this guy operating in several debate videos. I remember one in particular where he was pitched against Douglas Murray and Ayaan Hirsi Ali. He didn’t seem to like the debate thesis, so he simply ignored it and made up his own. He also was very insulting towards Ms Hirsi Ali, interupting her several times to condemn her for being unable to rattle off Arabic on command like he loves to boast about.
Was shameful……if he was capable of shame, that is.
Can’t wait for Nawaz to go the way of T Ramadan. That will be another happy day indeed.
Lebel says
He is actually good friends Ms. Hirsi Ali’s (and with Sam Harris)
LeftisruiningCanada says
Nonetheless, in the debate he was disrespectful and rude towards her.
Georg says
He hates her as she speaks the truth about Islam and made the terminal error of being born with a vagina (part of which was lopped off by Nawaz’s buddies). I don’t care if he pretends to be her friend in the same way I don’t care if he pretends to be British. And his crap about who can and can’t speak Arabic (whoop-de-doo, who cares?) is yet another manifestation of his Islamic supremacism coming through. All roads lead to Islam with this closet Islamist creep. He’s doing nothing other than trashing Britain/The West; that’s the favorite pastime of some other choice people on the Island and around the world… They’re mortal enemies.
If anyone can’t see through him I have something to sell you.
Paul says
YouTuber ‘Earthling Carl’ did a good video on this :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8TCm7ZIaLM
J D S says
Islam is the cause and problem. End of report.
David says
Lebel, Maajid Nawaz cannot be good friends with infidels. It says so in the Koran, so there!
How disgusting that the Beatles name has been tarnished by this filth. This is hate speech and should not be allowed.
“We need to start asking that question: what is it in our culture, in our cities, in our towns that is producing these sort of monsters.” And the answer is: ISLAM.
Georg says
Funny how prone he is to invoking the name of “The Beatles” but never seems to get around to “Muhammed Emwazi.”
Carol (the 1st) says
Nawaz is as obvious as Tariq Ramadan or a whopping wart on your nose. People like him only exist to be anaesthetically garrulous and to try to obscure, smear and conflate Western civilization with Islam and it’s muddy and blood-soaked brush.
Nico says
Well, Carol the 1st, perhaps you should contact Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Sam Harris and Douglas Murray, all of whom hold him in high esteem. They clearly don’t have your wisdom and insight.
Hats off, however, for the brillant expression “anaesthetically garrulous” which applies to so many islamicist yafflebags. You deserve some kind of a prize for that. Although not, IMHO* for applying it to Maajid Nawaz.
(Or in the not-so-humble opinion of the above-listed heroes).
Nico says
The bit about not having your wisdom etc. was unnecessarily sarky. I feel bad about that – sorry.
The point is, though, how come THEY were taken in by him, if he’s as bad as you say?
Carol (the 1st) says
Nico…I consigned Nawaz to the dustbin with alacrity long ago – but as a concession to you (and your appalling criticism of my wisdom and insight) I did watch more of the videos offered above. Hmmm…….NO CHANGE! Tigers like Nawaz only hope to disguise their stripes with emperor’s clothing – but sneakily supporting Islam never passes for “raiment”.
I really doubt intelligent Ayaan holds Nawaz in “high esteem” – but what can a girl do but keep up a civil facade while scrutinizing the enemy? And isn’t Sam Harris rather a grey figure at present? Thank you for your compliment regarding my new expression. I try desperately hard to serve some kind of function on this site!
Nico says
Well, in a contrite attempt to make amends for my boorishness I shall watch some more of Nawaz (later in the week) to see if I can develop a more skeptical view of him. I did look at one vid that was recommended here, made by one Earthling Carl, but I thought it fell flat as a critique of MN.
Maybe if there’s one of him wearing a striped tie with a striped shirt… but that’s unlikely, given his natty dress sense.
Carol (the 1st) says
Nico…Here’s a more recent video with Douglas Murray. Around 41-42 he mentions Nawaz and Hirsi Ali (32 to 42 is good). He seems to feel we very much need the few reformers we have and that they unfortunately get the worst flack. Murray sees Islam as a dangerous problem but believes it’s better dealt with muslim to muslim. He seems to feel that jumping into the ring with them would be unnecessary and have a very high cost:
Douglas Murray and Dave Rubin on The Strange Death of Europe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAgLxI5izQU
Carol (the 1st) says
Nico…Have you read this article?
The Self-Invention of Maajid Nawaz: Fact and Fiction in the Life of the Counter-Terror Celebrity
Carol (the 1st) says
https://www.alternet.org/comments/grayzone-project/self-invention-maajid-nawaz-fact-and-fiction-life-counter-terror-celebrity
Carol (the 1st) says
Nico.. checked out Sam Harris a bit. He’s asked to reply to accusations he lumps all muslims together (between 11 – 16:10). His thinking is somewhat in line with that of Douglas Murray (he’d like to see underdog & reformist muslims empowered in their own cultural groups) and he does, as you say, reveal admiration for Maajid Nawaz (he’s done a book with him so perhaps he’s gained insight).
Next I plan to look for Aayan’s recent viewpoints and if she’s on board I’ll do penance by holding my nose and taking a second look at Nawaz.
His basic premise seems to be that Islam and the West can jive with one another however and most of us don’t buy or trust that at all so who needs it?
Carol (the 1st) says
…forgot to add the link:
Sam Harris and Dave Rubin Talk Religion, Politics, Free Speech (Full Interview)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQqxlzHJrU0
Georg says
Chris Rock made the joke that (paraphrasing) if you have 11 guys who all have a friend who is a Nazi you have 12 Nazis. Is Islam not hostile to us?
Nico says
Thanks for the material, Carol I. I’ll be checking it out when I get some time, probably not before next Saturday.
Aingel Strong says
Nawaz is a n Agent: and when he says “WE” don’t the pos even try to include the 40 million of us, whose patience is tested to the point of action, who want him and the rest of these twats out; and . Filth like him are getting work and all trimming’s, with the assistance of the phat of the land islamophiles, over and above Loyal Subjects (a legal term of sort btw, that comes from the Magna Carta). The Home Office have a couple of weeks to digest paperwork they have bee sent and then things are going to start cracking on about dealing with the “moslem issue”, because if they wont then they are very stupid if they think it is not going to be dealt with by People who do have moral fibres, who do care what Britain is and is not, and more importantly are prepared to do the right thing for British women and young girls being subjected to abuse by enemy combatants wearing civilian clothing as they see it. WE KNOW YOURE LAW “SACRED LAW” NAWAZ … and were going to make you eat it …
Georg says
Right on.
Delmag says
Bravo! May the games begin!
Niemoller says
Islam is structural rapism.
Jihadism has nothing to do with native British culture, or modern culture. It has everything to do with Islamic doctrine.
Muhammad claimed only he could speak for God (or Allah, Arabic for God), thus he made God/Allah in his own violent image. Think about this: Muhammad claimed he is the last and “greatest” prophet, and he “fixed” all the previous “corrupted” stories about God and the prophets through his Quran. Muhammad claims his helter skelter rantings in the Quran are literally the first and last word from God/Allah.
What a blasphemer Muhammad is, to insult the genius creator of the universe by ascribing such perverse, delinquent scribblings to him, to put your words in God/Allah’s mouth as your banal, sick-minded excuses to rob, rape and murder. That is the worst blasphemy against God/Allah of all.
Yet, murdering, raping jihadists claim they speak for God/Allah every day, orchestrated by a class of bloodthirsty Islamic clerics and protected by cretinous western hack politicians and amoral monied interests.
Dead, empty ideologies like Islam always end, even if they end ugly. Such a waste of time, money and lives that could easily be avoided by using one’s God/Allah-given brain for thinking instead of nonthinking.
Ed Lee says
First, read the Qur’an. Then read the Bible. You will clearly see that Mohammad was a shameless plagarist.
Indiana Tom says
Nonie Darwish would disagree.
https://www.amazon.com/Wholly-Different-Biblical-Values-Islamic/dp/1621575780
She lays out the “seventh-century values” of Islam that religious extremists are so intent on protecting through global warfare—values that set Islam apart from the other Abrahamic religions.
gravenimage says
Ed and Indiana Tom, you are both right.
Muhammed did plagerize the Bible–but just the general characters and some of the stories (and he even got many of them wrong).
But he had no idea of the moral lessons of the Bible–either that, or he rejected them.
Ed Lee says
I did not mean to say that he was a word-for-word plagarist. Mohammad took many major themes from the Bible, ran them through his malfunctioning pedophile brain, and out came the polluted, perverted, twisted thing that is the Qur’an. (I was trying to be brief. Apparently, too much so.)
David says
Ed, it is a load of repetitive boring crap, and very difficult to wade through, like treacle. What amazes me is how it openly condemns itself and glorifies the worst of humanity. Muhammad is the perfect man (according to Muhammad) good Muslims try to emulate his characteristics: rape assault and murder, Paedophilia, lying, living off benefits; practising polygamy, to name but a few.
The only good thing about his life was that he died in agony, after suffering for two years, because he was poisoned by a woman whose husband and children he had personally killed. I think the only thing he prophesied was his own death. I can’t find the reference at the moment, but words to the effect that he said that if he was a false Prophet he would feel that his aorta had been cut. That is what he said to his child bride Aisha. He said he felt as though his aorta had been cut because of the pain he was feeling. A cruel death for a cruel man.
gravenimage says
Yes–I’m rereading the Qur’an for the fifth time now. Hideously vicious *and* boring–really, quite a feat…sarc/off
Jennifer says
Allah is not God Almighty. The name Allah in Arabic translates as ‘the god’ and in Arabic the title God is Ilah, as it is used in the Qur’an: Ilah = God Almighty, Al Rahman, the Beneficent, the Most Gracious, etc.
Niemoller says
Good point; I wasn’t trying to be too technical, but rather referencing that Christian Arabs say Allah for God in Arabic in the Christian Bible.
melek-ric says
Yes. Good question indeed. Here’s another part of the answer: did Britain produce jihadis 75, 100 or 200 years ago, before Islam had been introduced into the society? No. The manifestation of jihad in Britain can be directly correlated to the presence of Islam in Britain and the same can be said for every other country on Earth.
traci94 says
Great point!
gravenimage says
+1
Gjallarhornet says
Ehm … I don’t think Britain should take responsibility for a mass murderer who wanted to kill most Britons and abolish the United Kingdom.
If Britain should admit guilt for something, it must be partial. Jihadi John is not a British fault, what has happened was created by other persons than Brits. If Britain did something wrong, it was not starting this hatred, but *allowing it in*, and then multiply without control. I’m talking about a barbaric religion, which should never be allowed to it’s own devices and preferably kept out.
Now … what can that religion be? Find it, and you find where the problem lies.
Gjallarhornet says
“(… )have produced the most infamous terrorists, at least in my lifetime”
“what is it in our culture, ihat is producing these sort of monsters.”
Ehm … this ‘new’ thing (“at least in my lifetime”) he is asking for in his towns (“in our cities, in our towns”) is … islam. It is there now.
Voila! I answered his question for him. Do I get a medal? Some sort of reward?
Michael Copeland says
What can the religion be?
Could it be this one?
“It was propagated by invasion, by violence and intimidation….. where you have this belief, then you have violence. It glorifies death. … propagating their religion by killing other people and martyring themselves….. Kill infidels wherever you find them, make war on infidels, strike terror into the hearts of infidels.'”
Gerard Batten MEP
e-mail: gbmepoffice@btinternet.com
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/18/ukip-gerard-batten-islam-muslims-quran
Save Europe says
Correct. As a Brit, the only people who are to blame, here, are politicians who encouraged them in, and Leftards who think they are the same as us, culturally.
Benedict says
The memes of Islam were already in the mental and cultural make-up of Jihadi John and these memes were the sine qua non for his hideous actions. Sadly and regrettable his education and his surroundings in UK were not able to annihilate this horrible luggage Islam provides its host with.
Carol (the 1st) says
Nawaz could possibly pick up some easy clues if he followed the dots to certain alien incubators…(suspense, suspense)…called LOCAL MOSQUES!
762x51FMJ says
Jihadi John.s long and winding road led across the universe to Helter Skelter.
Westman says
One could argue that Nawaz is on a tightrope between the Muslim community and the unbelievers. If he says the Muslim religion is the cause, he is in physical danger from Muslims. If he says unbelievers are the cause, he loses all credibility. If he says the nation is at fault then each side can make their own determination about the fault of the “other” – and Nuwaz remains relevant.
Slick.
gravenimage says
He is another Taqiyya artist.
Westman says
Yes indeed. With that talent he should be running for office.
Terry Gain says
He is a Muslim who is not ashamed by the atrocities carried out by Muslims. In fact, so unashamed that he is willing to blatantly lie and blame non- Muslims for the atrocities committed by Muslims. He is sick.
N says
I’m sorry but I think that is grossly unfair and inaccurate. I can only suggest you look up some of Nawaz’s speeches on YouTube. You can start by listening closely to the video embedded here.
gravenimage says
Nawaz *has* spoken out against violent Jihad and some of the gaudier aspects of Shari’ah law like stoning women to death.
He has been much cagier about other aspects of Shari’ah and stealth Jihad, though.
Cicero says
Yes he is a slick and smooth operator. A lot of listeners find him credible and persuasive. Yes he does walk the tightrope hopping like an energetic flea from an anti Jihadi position to that of an Islamist apologist.
His speechifying needs careful listening and attention by people who have some ide@ of the true nature of Islam.. only then can one discern the mental pirouettes Nawaz does and recognise him for what he truly is – a Jihadi of the Word and Pen.
Carol (the 1st) says
In my insightful opinion he is serving as a “waste of time” while we could instead be trying to figure out HOW in the H*^* do we get rid of them!?!
Jayell says
A poll of muslims in the UK not so long ago showed that they thought the UK was 70% muslim. I believe it’s actually somewhere between 4% and 5% at present, so, if my maths is correct, that rather goes to show that they’ve over-estimated their demographic importance in the UK by a factor of no less than about 1,700%! I get the impression that this character Nawaz probably suffers from a similar lack of self-awareness and social awareness, possibly with a resulting deluded belief that the 92-3% indigenous majority in the UK somehow identify with him and that he therefore has some right to speak on their behalf. So, sorry, Mr. Nawaz, but just the mention of your name would suggest that you don’t come from our stable and you’re probably not on our wavelength, and we certainly don’t want you projecting the gruesome antics of your chums on to us and dragging our name through the mud when a cursory glance at our track-record over the centuries clearly shows that we don’t go in for this sort of thing even if your friends do. This is a muslim thing, and the UK isn’t a muslim country – yet.
PRCS says
“that rather goes to show that they’ve over-estimated their demographic importance in the UK”
Which is being promoted by many politicians, social justice warriors, “journalists”, educators, merchants, social services personnel….
Terry Gain says
Muslims have no illusions about their demographic importance. They know that the opposition is so weak that they need to be only 10% of a country in order to control it.
thesailor says
+1
gravenimage says
Jayell, here is this deeply disturbing poll:
“Report: Ghettoised UK Muslims Believe Britain 75 Per Cent Islamic”
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/12/04/ghettoized-uk-muslims-believe-britain-75-per-cent-islamic/
Save Europe says
They’re so self-absorbed.
Jayell says
75% is even worse than I thought. One normally witnesses this sort of discrepancy between expressed perception and reality when one’s dealing with ignorant idiots who are wilfully blinkered by their own bigotted arrogance or stupidity. We really don’t want this sort of humanoid dross in the UK at all, but if they have to be tolerated it’s only really practicable if they are completely quarantined in their own little cesspools and aren’t allowed to contaminate or otherwise interfere with the civilised society around them. Unfortunately, there are too many cock-eyed moronic optimists in positions of power in the UK who seem unable or unwilling to recognise a noxious pollutant when it’s clouding their proverbial drinking water and are too lazy/irresponsible/ignorant/deluded/all four to do anything about it even though the evidence that the safety of their fellow citizens (for whom they are responsible) has been very seriously compromised.
Gjallarhornet says
The British produced Magna Carta, the Industrial Revolution, democracy and Churchill. islam made nothing, apart from types like Jihadi John and a lot of noise. In any sane universe the British would take pride in their achievements and muslims burn with shame of their own lack of such.
Ed Lee says
One more thing: Adam Smith’s Wealth of Nations. The Qur’an mandates that Muslims hate and despise wealth and prosperity.
Gjallarhornet says
+1
Besides, I’m serious when I say my country would not have been where it is if It had not been for British ingenuity. This goes for all of the western world
LeftisruiningCanada says
“Muslims hate and despise wealth and prosperity”
Only if they have to produce it.
They seem to quite like other peoples wealth and prosperity.
Gjallarhornet says
Besides, one of the most disturbing things in the muslim world (not in islam as such) is the alliance of mindless western consumerism with traditional islamic culture. Countries like Saudi Arabia and UAE has embraced western consumerism at breakneck speed. Go to a Starbucks in Europe where opulent muslim girls go and you will see this mixture of islamic life and emptyheaded western consumerism.
This is not a religious criticism from me, it’s just that this is a way of life i find particularly shallow – and somehow deeply disturbing.
gravenimage says
Yes–Muslims enjoy stealing the wealth of productive people.
In the core texts of Islam, you can see that this creed is based on piracy and slavery.
Terry Gain says
Muslims have no shame. The British have no pride. So what is happening is inevitable.
Save Europe says
Terry – ‘some’ Brits have no pride, I agree, whilst I myself, and many others DO!
Ed Lee says
He’s right. The UK produced Jihadi John. The widespread submission to Islam, mistakenly termed “tolerance” is the cause. They fail to understand that for Muslims, tolerance is a one-way street. The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. The indigenous population of the UK is doing nothing.
CRUSADER says
Something about Maajid Nawaz seems to show glimmers of his early self as a street punk.
Cicero says
I think that is too benign an appraisal of this extremely clever , articulate and cunning person
CRUSADER says
Did you get to read his book, “RADICAL” ?
He also has a book with Sam Harris:
“Islam and the Future of Tolerance: A Dialogue”
2015 book collaboration between the bestselling
American author Sam Harris and the British activist Maajid Nawaz.
Georg says
Another Islamist creep. Guy was never very convincing in his Salafist-jihadist –> Johnny-come-lately transformation which netted him fame and money. Britain’s only fault in this is not coming down like a ton of bricks on seditious Muslims the island over. Whether returned ISIS fighters or the monster down the block rallying Muslims against Britain day-in and day-out, this Islam-uber-alles bigot has only one mission and infatuation, always will, and is the same as the rest of them.
Islam, Islam, Islam is the problem. It is YOU who are “something.” He sounds no different from Anjem Choudry or other jihadists because he isn’t different. They use physical violence, he’ll engage in psy-ops aimed at promoting Islam and demoralizing Brits. It is what is un-British which has produced Muhammed Emwazi, it is the parts of Britain which are not British which are “something” and the answer is more Britain and less Islam. If his scum religion weren’t on the island it wouldn’t have happened.
gravenimage says
UK: “Moderate” Muslim Maajid Nawaz: “We, the United Kingdom, produced Jihadi John”
………………………..
No, it was “We, the Muslims, produced Jihadi John”.
underbed cat says
Britain’s responsibility is to protect itself from the teachings of the doctrine taught in the mosques as it is presented to unsuspecting citizens as peaceful but progresses to actual doctrine of jihad warfare against non-believers. It is very clever in a presentation of tea and cookies, and flowery talk to seduce. It seduced and produced Jihadi John…..we can live in reality only if we know the doctrine, good try to put the blame on tolerance of the U.K.allowed thru lack of actual knowledge of the doctrine taught in the mosques and schools and commands form the verses of the Quran and pretend to practice tolerance when it words are commands to slay non- believers. Something the U.K. should never tolerate…but it may be too late to reverse a course of the global Islamist deadly parasitic infection. Jihad John was taught this in the mosque.
GPT says
He’s right. Mohammed was actually born in Leamington Spa and his mother, real name Deirdre Higginbotham, took him to Arabia when he was but a wee child in order to open a fish and chip shop.
gravenimage says
Ha ha
bob kelly says
Were do these so called in tuned thinkers come from Arab world . the truth is so obvious the Americans, Canadians, French, Germans, Scandinavians, Scots etc. they never turned into monsters when they immigrated to England the way the Muslims have , maybe the muslims were monsters before they came .
Indiana Tom says
“We, the United Kingdom, produced Jihadi John. We, the United Kingdom, produced his other acolytes around him in the so-called Jihadi Beatles. Something in our cities and towns, something in the atmosphere within our communities in this country have produced the most infamous terrorists, at least in my lifetime. We need to start asking that question: what is it in our culture, in our cities, in our towns that is producing these sort of monsters.”
Islam.
Carol (the 1st) says
Aaaw…can we guess that Nawaz will suggest the answer is…(drum roll)…”HURTING ISLAMIC FEELINGS BY A LACK OF ACCEPTANCE”.
Benedict says
“We, the United Kingdom, produced Jihadi John”-
So when Muslims kill other Muslims who are producing who? :
Article by Raymond Ibrahim:
http://www.meforum.org/6170/how-muslims-justify-killing-muslims
Benedict says
PS: Islam in any edition is a viscous circle, symbolized by the insane circling around the Kaaba, and the tricky thing is to get out of it!
sheik yer'mami says
Maajid Nawaz works for the Quilliam Foundation. The Quilliam Foundation exists for one purpose only: to make the UK islamic. Is there anything you don’t understand about that?
gravenimage says
Exactly, Sheik Yer’mami. And great to see you posting here again.
CRUSADER says
Quilliam started the Islamic Center in UK long ago.
Carol (the 1st) says
Wikipedia has 3 possibilities as to the origin of the name “Quilliam”:
1/ John Quilliam – a navy man at the Battle of Trafalgar
2/ Susan Quilliam – an author who brought systemic psychology to the masses
and, last (but surely not least):
3/ William ABDULLAH Quilliam (1856-1932) a 19th century convert from Christianity to Islam, founding ENGLAND’S FIRST MOSQUE AND ISLAMIC CENTRE.
gravenimage says
Yep–it’s the third guy. An early Muslim “revert” who was one of the the first to get Islam a toe hold in England.
tgusa says
Something… What could it possibly be? Hmm, let me think. Oh man is that a tough question.
Ok, it is not a tough question.
CS says
And the answer is: Too much Islam!
traci94 says
I read this, and I’m thinking, is this guy really serious? Does he really believe what he is saying? All the comments here have hit the nail on the head – the problem is Islam, plain and simple. I’ve never seen anything like it – an entire group of people unwilling and unable to look at themselves and honestly assess the multitude of problems associated with this “religion”. They are truly delusional. Nothing good is associated with Islam; honestly, nothing good. Wherever it shows up it brings nothing but strife, burdens, claims of victim status, excessive demands, terror, etc.
Carol (the 1st) says
:”squeaky wheel gets the booty”
Save Europe says
This is very much akin to what Merkel said a couple of years ago – that Germany was guilty of producing German born Muslims who went to fight for ISIS. This, is, of course, deliberate self-scapegoating, and an attempt to obfuscate in regards to the situation – these people may have been born in Britain (and Germany, as per above), but their mindset will have been that they were Muslims only, with no sense of patriotism whatsoever. They weren’t British or German. All these ridiculous analyses miss the point – ‘you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink’ – ergo these people are to blame for their mindsets, and not society around them – unless Nawaz is talking about Musllim enclaves !!!!
MoInTheKnow says
I blame my cat (not). Just happens to be called ‘muzzie’!
Nico says
As someone with a lot of respect for Robert Spencer and who appreciates this website (especially the brilliant articles of Hugh Fitzgerald), I am disappointed by what I see as a rather disingenuous, or at least ill-informed, attack on a good man. It potentially casts doubt on the other reports in the website.
Maajid Nawaz is the polar opposite of Tareq Ramadan.
To me, a Brit, it is blatantly obvious that he is criticising the “Londonistan” culture here, and the work of the Finsbury mosque and others like it. The UK authorities are indeed to blame in as far as they have been complicit with, or at last over tolerant of, islamo-fascist proselytising – the very thing Mr Nawaz strives to combat, and which has earned him the open contempt of much of the Muslim ‘community’.
I can only recommend that readers look up M.N.’s speeches on YouTube and make up their own mind about what he is trying to say as he seeks to walk a very difficult, and for him dangerous, tightrope.
Cicero says
To me , also a Brit , my opinion differs as someone who has lived up close and personal with the ideology in question and it’s ideologues – this radio jockey is playing for the long term global advancement And triumph of the Ummah.
However much he does intellectual and mental gymnastics
As non – practising Catholic once told me that once she gained intellectual maturity she was able to challenge and question the religious dogma she was reared in.
However what was very difficult and almost impossible to eradicate was the religious brainwashing she was subjected to as a Catholic child.
Just imagine how much more insurmountable it would be for an individual born and brought up in the religion of peace to thoroughly and completely repudiate its tenets. It must Be like tear8ng out a part of one’s DNA
Nico says
Yes, I think you put it very well. Like tearing out part of one’s DNA.
I don’t think Maajid will ever become an ex-Muslim like Ayaan — even if that would be a more satisfactory outcome – in fact I find it hard to imagine where his internal journey is taking him.
You think he’s secretly pushing for the triumph of the Ummah. Well, I’m not inside his head, but I can’t see that at all. I think he may be on some sort of personal quest to reconcile islam (which was so central to his world view for so long) with his modern and essentially humanistic mindset, probably an unachievable goal, but I don’t see him as some kind of Trojan Horse. For a slick agent of the Ummah he’s remarkably unpopular with the Ummah.
And Douglas Murray likes him… and that counts for a lot as far as I’m concerned !
Georg says
He says “Britain” about 50 times for every time he says “Islam,” he says “The Jihadi Beatles” but not “Muhammad Emwazi.” Ding-ding-ding. His worldview is bankrupt, dangerous, and very predictable. Replace him with an ex-Muslim and get on with civilization.
gravenimage says
Nico–with all respect–if Maajid Nawaz were unequivocally anti-Jihad then he would not have to “walk a tightrope”.
Georg says
Exactly. That we have to point that out evidences the level of distortion we’ve all undergone.
Nico says
OK, it’s not a brilliant metaphor. But anyway, I don’t think the tightrope is between pro-Jihad and anti-Jihad positions (seems to me he has proven he is clearly anti, but maybe I – and the likes of Sam Harris – are naive). It’s between what he can and can’t say if he wants to bring non-violent Muslims on board. And as well all know, given the texts and their supposedly divine status, that’s a tricky task.
But if someone dreams of turning islam into a non-aggressive belief system, I say good luck to them.
gravenimage says
Nico, if non-violent Muslims are offended if someone speaks critically of Islamic violence, then perhaps they are not as non-violent as one might hope…
Nico says
@ gravenimage
Yes, I agree entirely. And think it is very often the case.
Carol (the 1st) says
He may only be striving for a :holding pattern” and that;s why most knowledgeable people would prefer (if and while we may still have the power) to put this awful creed to rest.
Robert Spencer says
Do you know what the word “disingenuous” means?
Nico says
What I meant it to mean was that I thought you should have known better than to give Maajid Nawaz the “quotation marks” treatment – quote moderate unquote, etc., depicting him as the disingenuous one. I thought perhaps you were being deliberately provocative in his regard.
I could be wrong. You’re the expert. I don’t have enough time to follow these things up in great depth. But even when I look at the rest of the video you included, I sense a disconnect between what he’s actually saying and the angle you chose to take on it on this occasion.
Anne Smith says
Funnily enough I believe there is quite a lot of truth in what he says in that Britain has favoured multiculturalism and encouraged Muslim communities to remain in their own time warp and culture within our country, failing to learn from the more advanced nation and clinging to their primitive customs and beliefs.
The free rein given to mosques to set up and preach sedition and savage barbarism against infidels is allowed everywhere without monitoring. Most of the attacks we have experienced in UK and those who left to join ISIS were fostered in their local mosques. The foolish Theresa May allows these nests of vipers to proliferate and spread their poisonous messages without any hindrance from the security forces.
Therefore we have only ourselves to blame for the atmosphere we have allowed in and have failed to check or monitor. When you see this alarming video of Mrs May you will see why we are in such a mess.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFQslqJZ4qQ
Georg says
Do you agree with his characterization of “far-right” and their being “racist?”
terry says
ISLAM
CRUSADER says
— is lame
Nico says
Interesting to see the very different angle the Clarion has chosen to take on the exact same video.
“Maajid Nawaz: Stop Palming Off Our Terrorists to the US
Brits should take responsibility for the ‘Jihadi Beatles’ & stop whining about GITMO”
I think they get Maajid’s message clearly. The UK should never have allowed jihadism to flourish in its midst. Maajid would like to believe he can supplant it with a gentler, more modern islam – that’s a different debate (and I think he’s probably mistaken).
The ‘something’ he refers to is state-sponsored jihadism. Others would just call it “islam” – and that’s where there is fruitful debate to be had, without impugning Maajid’s motives.
Maajid is on the side of the angels. And he has the Douglas Murray seal of approval, too; and that’s high praise indeed.
FYI says
“What’s in our culture”?
Ehm…..a stab in the dark here …..but{sarc} might it have something to do with the teachings and way of life of the ironically named “Religion of peace”?
You know,islamic “culture”.
1.It’s “prophet”: the mass-murdering{Abu Dawud 4390],polygamist,pederast “perfect man” muhammed{sbuh} who actually admitted being a terrorist.
“I have been made victorious through terror”
Bukhari 4:52:220
muslims are obliged to follow the Sunnah of this “prophet” who was…a terrorist(..he admitted it himself!)
2.Its god allah: a warped, psychotic parody and gross misrepresentation of the actual Biblical God
(You know the one with all the JEWISH prophets?but allah hates the Jews…..)
muslims pray 5 times a day to this god; a god who curses Jews and Christians k9:30,does not subscribe to God’s 2 Chief Laws,gets his theology completely wrong and who{ludicrously} has no concept of biblical Prophecy since he denies the existence of that aspect of God associated with the revelation of Prophecy..which is why Iranians idiotically pray to allah to destroy Israel{the Holy Land}
3.It’s “holy” koran: with its commandment-violating immoral teachings of allah,its ludicrous theology mistakes,its complete ignorance of God’s Supreme Laws(found in Judaism and Christianity but of course not in islam)
Valkyrie Ziege says
; Without the Qur’an none of this would’ve happened. I’m not shocked by Maajid Nawaz blaming Britain, because a moderate Muhammadan is a racial Muhammadan who has run-out of ammo, and bombs. Sugar-coated poison is poison, none-the-less.
AJS says
It’s not entirely wrong though is it?
Emwazi was raised and educated here and came to his ludicrous views while living in Britain.
Nawaz stops short because the real problem is quite obviously the insane utopian multiculturalism that Nawaz still believes in (I think he genuinely does, he is not a stealth jihadist.) To reach the obvious conclusion he can’t bring himself to make:
1) Emwazi should not have been here in the first place. Mass immigration with no regard for the cultures or beliefs of those we bring in is a post-Marxist fantasy.
2) The authorities should be coming down like a ton of bricks on stealth jihadism, Islamic supremacism and exceptionalism and colonisation before it has the chance to become violent terrorism.
3) The authorities absolutely refuse to do these things because they are wedded to their mistaken beliefs as only the truly deluded can be.
Carol (the 1st) says
In a way Nawaz IS “entirely wrong” – by omission. In the article’s video he never once even implies that MOSQUE ATTENDANCE is to blame. Instead he speaks of people getting radicalized “ON THE STREETS…and in West London” but again not ONE mention of the MOSQUES.
This is an astounding oversight and this is how he shows himself to be subversive and untrustworthy.
Sam Harris seems to trust him however, so I for one will take a second look. He may be the best we can do in regards to straddling both sides of the fence.
Barnaby says
Are you people seriously so blinkered, bigoted, ignorant and unsophisticated that you can’t understand what he’s actually saying?
Nico says
I think very few of the commenters actually watched – even less listened to – the embedded video.
They were just going on the strength of the title and lead-in, which I contend are not up to the usual standard, and are strikingly different to what the Clarion Project concluded from the same material.
And there are some here, alas, for whom he’s just a swarthy looking guy with an Arab-y sounding name.
There are others who don’t like him on apparently more rational grounds, for reasons I have yet to explore.
gravenimage says
Nico wrote:
And there are some here, alas, for whom he’s just a swarthy looking guy with an Arab-y sounding name.
………………………………
Nico, I’m afraid the implication that one should have no concerns over a former leader of Hizb ut-Tahrir, and should not care about the doings of the shady Quilliam Foundation, and that if you do you are just a bunch of racists who hate Arabic is nothing but calumny. So is this:
“Quilliam Foundation smears Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller as ‘alt-right leaders’”
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2017/05/quilliam-foundation-smears-robert-spencer-and-pamela-geller-as-alt-right-leaders
Here, he pretends that those who oppose Jihad are Fascists.
And it is not just Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller they are going after:
“Quilliam’s article in the Guardian is massive smear of Tommy Robinson and the entire counter-jihad movement”
https://www.jihadwatch.org/tag/quilliam-foundation
And here is someone involved with the Quilliam Foundation who still wants to see Israel destroyed:
“Quilliam’s ‘Former Extremist’ Adam Deen Still Supports the Jihad Against Israel”
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2017/05/quilliams-former-extremist-adam-deen-still-supports-the-jihad-against-israel
In fact, there are many ex-Muslims who are “swarthy” and have “Arab-y sounding names” who are staunch Anti-Jihadists–Wafa Sultan, Nonie Darwish, and Nabeel Qureshi immediately come to mind–and other “swarthy” people with “Arab-y sounding names” like Bishop Nazir-Ali and Birgitte Gabriel who are also staunchly against Jihad–unlike the frequently weaselly Maajid Nawaz.
Nico says
Well, I made no such implication. I found some people’s comments rather bigoted, and unworthy of this website, and I said so. But the great majority seem, as I said, to have to their own reasons for disliking MN, and when I have time I’ll follow all of those up and maybe revise my opinion of him. Looking quickly at the links you provide, I don’t get the impression that those slanders were penned by MN, but as director of Quilliam, I guess the buck stops with him. And if he has been making, or at least not opposing, ad hominem attacks on Robert Spencer, then I guess it’s only fair that the latter should hit back with ironic quote marks.
Carol (the 1st) says
nico…this is a very late posting but it completes my updated thoughts on people you claim think well of Nawaz (Harris, Murray, and Hirsi Ali). The first two did show positivity – but it could reflect life and death compromise (re fears of nuclear war) and a shortage of “fence” men rather than any full endorsement of Nawaz.
I did find a recent video with Ayaan Hirsi Ali and she didn’t seem to dislike Nawaz but carefully added to many of his statements. She too seems to want “fence” men (my term for straddlers of both worlds). Nawaz was absolutely on his best behaviour and made some distinct statements supporting democratic values. Near the end he agreed with and supported her urging for better education in the schools re Western history (but interestingly there was no mention of the failing schools in the video above). I don’t believe in either video that he pointed his finger at the elephant in the room – the MOSQUES. I think he’s more ambitious than bona fide – but I would consider studying him a little more based on this Feb. 2016 interview (note however that article’s video was not done in the presence of such an icon as Ayaan Hirsi Ali and it also appears to be from a later date – Feb/18):
Ayaan Hirsi Ali with Maajid Nawaz – Alan Howard Foundation / JW3 Speaker Series
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SV_GMeZ_XmA