There are those in the West who are so confident in the prospects for reform in Islam that they take that confidence as an index of the reliability of various analysts: if one is not as sanguine as they are about the prospects for Islamic reform, they’re branded as “racist,” “bigoted” and “Islamophobic.”
Those who bask in this confidence should ponder Ali Erbaş, who is not a terrorist or a member of any “extremist” group. On the contrary, he is the head of the Directorate of Religious Affairs in “moderate” Turkey. And even he says that the words “Islam” and “reform” should not be put together. Erbaş knows that Allah says in the Qur’an (5:3) that he has “perfected” Islam, so how could it need reforming?
And that means that all its calls for violence against unbelievers, and all its misogyny and anti-Semitism, are not going to change.
Erbaş said it. Not some greasy Islamophobe.
“Islam, reform should not appear in same sentence: Diyanet head,” Hürriyet Daily News, March 13, 2018:
Turkey’s Directorate of Religious Affairs (Diyanet) head Ali Erbaş has said the words Islam and reform should not appear in the same sentence, but that the interpretation of Islamic jurisprudence, referred to as “fiqh,” could be updated.
“It is not correct to put the words of Islam and reform next to each other in any way. But Fıqh is always subject to update and needs to be updated,” he said on March 12 during a program broadcasted by CNN Türk.
“There are constants in Islam and there are also variables. With time, judgements may also change. We indicate that judgements may sometimes change because there is a need for that,” Erbaş said, emphasizing that time required updates in “fiqh,” but not in “Islam.”
Indicating that the most important two sources of Islam were the Quran and the teachings of the Prophet Muhammed, referred to as “Sunnah,” he said these two sources would preserve their “universality,” “inalterability” and “stability.”…
“We, as the Directorate of Religious Affairs, reject every kind of interpretation and thought that condones violence against women. A woman is a mother and she is the most important creature, someone who stands by a human in every point [in their lives] and helps them. There is not one single source in either our Prophet’s teachings or in Islam that condones violence against women,” he said.
Flavius Claudius Iulianus says
Mohammadism is not ‘reformable’ in any way! This erroneous belief comes, in part, from the history of successful evolutions of other religions. Yes, Christianity and Judaism have changed, evolved and reformed, but Mohammadism is not ‘reformable,’ never will be. As you well know, a central tenet of Mohammadism is that Mohammad is the last prophet and his word is the last word. Therefore, any reinterpretation of the literal words of Mohammad is a big no-no. Written directly into the Koran are the words of Allah, “[t]his day I have perfected for you your religion …” (as Robert quotes). To alter what Allah has perfected would be blasphemous. The literal interpretation has always been and will always be considered the ‘strongest’ reading of the Mohammadan scriptures, and therefore will always be deemed the correct reading.
Even if Mohammadism were ‘reformable,’ do you want the West to be involved in no less than five-hundred years of religious wars? (That is the length of time it took Europe to resolve the Catholic-Protestant divide.) And, if I may remind you, Mohammadism has already been engaged in internecine conflicts/war for most of its history.
As soon as you try to reform Mohammadism you begin the process of creating a whole new religion. The landscape of Middle Eastern religions is littered with Mohammadan spin-offs. (Some consider themselves to still be Mohammadan and others no longer.) A brief sampling: the Baha’i faith, the Ahmadis, the Druze, the Ismailis, the Alawites, etc.
And those few Mohammadan reformers that we see are not undertaking any real reforms; they are engaging in “sophisticated taqiyya,” because, in the end, they are all Mohammadan supremacists.
The only effective way to deal with Mohammadism is isolation and defense. Left to their own machinations, isolated Mohammadan societies weaken and shrink, and become less of a threat to the rest of humanity.
HugoHackenbush says
Great post. You saved me a lot of writing. Thanks!
Keys says
FCI, I like the isolation option combined with expulsion, but my favorite is the complete annihilation of Mohammadism/Islam.
Flavius Claudius Iulianus says
The problem with the “complete annihilation” solution is that one risks becoming one’s enemy by imitating one’s enemy.
Julea Bacall says
I am a realist. How can that be done? It cannot. But something must be done. But somehow it has to start with their leaders. I want a real solution.
Not some outlandish exaggeration like ‘nuke them all’. There has to be a realistic solution. There has to be. At least for USA to start with.
Flavius Claudius Iulianus says
Yes, the “nuke them all” is not realistic.
The “isolation and defense” solution is not only possible – it has been done in the past. Cheap Saudi oil got us into this mess. We continue down this path as long as we are forced to appease the Saudis so that they continue to take payment for their oil in US dollars. (see “petrodollar”)
Remember that Mohammadism is not only in direct opposition to the US Constitution (https://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/upload/wysiwyg/article%20pdfs/Shariah_VS_Constitution.pdf), it is also seditious to ALL constitutional democracies. And therefore, in a constitutional democracy, tolerance of Mohammadism is in fact treasonous.
Julea Bacall says
But is just Saudi the main and only source of trouble? NO There’s Turkey, Iran, Pakistan, Malaysia, Africa. Any country that picked up that Warlord manual the Qur’an and thought, “what a great plan for complete control and conquest. Plus all the members who helped think their only real reward comes with death” And it is not just oil but places where all the Corporations and mining want to get in to sell their products or dig. Its more than Saudi/oil.
Julea Bacall says
I like the way you describe Islam as like a chinese finger puzzle…..touch and you are entrapped. I have seen it as a staightjacket like some Hudini wore and tried some great feat to get out of. It takes quite a person to free themselves & then they feel so alone. Its one of the biggest Cons of the universe to use people and make them feel good about being used.
Keys says
You say “there has to be a realistic solution”. What is it? Because as the Islamic countries get more powerful and Islam spreads through Europe the world is headed for a hellish future.
Mortimer proposes absolute deprogramming through government programs. A moral, non-violent idea.
Daniel Triplett proposes a gradual nuking of Islamic countries/cities until they give up Islam.
At this point, to my mind, “realistically”, Triplett’s solution is the only one that would work. Whether that should be done is a different question, and I have not offered an opinion on that.
I hope for the annihilation of Islam, not the annihilation of all muslims. I did not mean to imply “nuke them all”.
Flavius Claudius Iulianus says
The “annihilation of Islam” involves interacting with Islam. Mohammadism is like a Chinese finger puzzle, if you mess with it then you will probably get caught in its web. (Sorry for the mixed [implied] metaphors.)
I propose not interacting at all: a quarantine.
Keys says
Yes, Flavius, I think a quarantine would work, if all muslims could be expelled from the West, India, South America, China, Russia, etc. Like Ferdinand and Isabella expelled them from Spain. Along with that all mosques in those countries would be closed.
But that, even though it would work without killing innocents, it seems to me, is as unrealistic as the other proposals (deprogramming & gradual nuking) given the current political realities in the West, Freedom of Religion in Constitutions, current military alliances, etc.
So do we have to wait until things are so drastic to act ? This is Triplett’s point. There comes a time when it is too late to avoid catastrophic loss of life in civil and world wars, and that his plan is more humane and moral with less loss of life, less catastrophic consequences, and for the preservation of freedom and democracy.
Europe will be outbred in less than 100 years and the infidels then will have the 3 Koronic choices. Most will submit – all part of the plan of many muslim countries and organizations being implemented now. We are in a different kind of world war right now.
Julea Bacall says
Keys, I heard this part of this story a few days ago. That in Scotland they had some kind of rally/parade and numerous Jews showed up with their flags ect and all the Muslim group left. Because the parade or whatever it was ACCEPTED Jewish too.
What would happen here if US made more support or Laws Against Anti Semitism and made it clear that YES, Judaism is WELCOME here and they have to be OK with it OR ELSE. Maybe they will take the Or Else and leave not to be punished for their Hatreds/Jealousy. Even the Left HAS to be inclusive. To do that though, we also have to get rid of the Nazygroups and white Supremacist lies and bring in blacks more. I think that is the only thing we can Possibly DO. Make it impossible for Islam to live out their plan here.
Julea Bacall says
Being inclusive really does not mean bringing in anything plotting to do away with us or the Constitution. Nazygroups, white Supremacists, Islam, KKKlan all DO.
And the Constitution does not mean all white Christians only. It means no group splits off and wholly takes over. (that goes for Republicans and Democrats too…no ONE wholly takes over)
Infidel says
@Flavius… I LOVED it when U say and I quote “The only effective way to deal with Mohammadism is isolation and defense. Left to their own machinations, isolated Mohammadan societies weaken and shrink, and become less of a threat to the rest of humanity.”
I completely concur and this is the BEST way to defeat Islam because Islam ALWAYS needs a host, which it can leech and suck dry while itself thriving at the expense of the host. Now the host can be a prosperous infidel nation like the free Greater West..(ps note that I stress on the word infidel nation because the parasite cannot leech another parasite Islamic nation)… In the absence of the host parasitic Islam needs resources like OIL.. which it can live off lazily…
Just see how Pakistan has become an economic basket case. Actually, the Muslims in India are better off because they parasite from the hard working and tax paying host Hindu society… This is the truth about these pests all over the world..
Infidel says
Also want to add as to why relatively prosperous Islamic hellholes like Saudi, Qatar, UAE etc do not take in their own Islamic refugees.. They very well know the nature of this beast and have nothing to do with these parasites and would rather shove them off infidel lands of the Greater West.
Flavius Claudius Iulianus says
The simile of the host and parasite to the kuffar and the followers of Mohammad is very apt. The dynamics are the same in both.
Infidel says
Flav.. I have said this b4 and will repeat it again here: The more tolerant the host society, the more virulent and beastly and savage the Islamic parasite..
Julea Bacall says
But you know our country will not do it.
Not even Trump would take his fingers out of the money pot. So far, our country acts like a parasite that always needs a fresh host for ‘free trade’ and a place to start up Corporations too. That is why we went in to take Ukraine with NED, NGOS-Soros, even Biden and we caused a civil war by putting nazyoriented in government against the east part AND tied to steal Russias bee hive. Look What we did? We needed Russia away from Iran and Turkey but everything we did pushed them closer. Does anyone think there is some plan going on? For real, I am very worried.
balam says
Mohammadanism can never be reformed.How could one reform MENTAL ILLNESS!!!
mortimer says
Agree that Islam is a collective hypnosis. A hypnotic subject can be awakened and kept awake by explaining the technique to him. Then he cannot return to hypnosis because he becomes aware of the ‘trick’ of distorting reality.
Flavius Claudius Iulianus says
“collective hypnosis”
Yes it seems that it makes its followers go against their own natural positive human tendencies of altruism, joy, optimism and compassion.
It is never more obvious than in apostates to Mohammadism. They go from severe, sullen and brutish to the happiest and kindest of people. They seem to glow with joy.
J D S says
I would never be interested in an effort to try and “reform” any part of Islam…but i would be interested in outlawing Islam in America. Too late for Europe unless they go to total all out war, with every European country involved in attacking islam, and it’s murderous outlandish teachings even to the point of driving them out of Europe altogether…….Gutless leaders and a complacent citizenry will never let that happen…. it here in America we have a small window of time IF our officials will act……but with Gutless leaderss, (IT WILL TAKE PASSAGE OF LAWS) Gutless news media outlets (THEY WONT REPORT THE TUTH OR THEY WOULD BE RRPORTING THESE HEADLINES ON ROBERT SPENCERS SITE) and yes, an “uninformed” complacent citizenry, that “small window” will close abruptly. So I suppose we, like EUrope, are ” done “. Are we ?
God is the only one who can help us…If our leaders would only see that our problems would be less of a buffer.
God help us. WE HAVE MET THE ENEMY FACE TO FACE AND WE ARE IT!
Kauri says
Read Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s book “Heretic; Why Islam Needs A Reformation Now”
Julea Bacall says
There is only one nearly impossibly way Islam could be reformed and that is for many strong Leaders to declare they are going to Remove all Human Warlord added BS to some single simple message from Jibral. All those people will need Something, right or wrong, they cannot just ‘let it all go’. Its not psychologically doable. But they could remove HUMAN added culture, persecutions, traditions and cut straight to a one Allah idea with Universal Human Rights and tolerance of others perspectives.
But that would take a lot of strength and determination to teach people to “really spiritual by cutting out all the Human additions” It could be tried. For the survival of the Mideast its a Method that should be done. And eventually, Israel has to annex the West Bank and Gaza…..with Egypts help. Jordan IS the Arab Muslim Partition of 78% of the Mandate. How could people forget? No one is telling Muslims to move. Israel is not Only Jewish but it is for the Jewish people with a Jewish Government which must remain so and is necessary as a refuge. Americans need to support Israel More and nazytypes or white-Supremacists, Islamist Supremacists, KKKlan need to be wiped out from their treasonous manifestos. There is no other realistic way for our country to escape becoming like Europe/Scandinavia on the way out.
Halal Bacon says
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACBNBSTns5s
elee says
This business of Turks in Byzantium certainly didn’t exist in the 7th century AD. It’s an innovation. Will the Turks be returning to central Asia?
Flavius Claudius Iulianus says
I think you spelled “invasion” incorrectly. It’s spelled “invasion” not “innovation.”
gravenimage says
Flavius, I think elee meant that the Muslim Turks being in Anatolia was an innovation.
But Muslims are always up for invasions of any Infidel lands, of course.
Flavius Claudius Iulianus says
I was being facetious: Nomadic tribesmen’s violent incursions into the territory of millennia-old civilizations should always be considered innovative.
Jaladhi says
So we have right from horse’s mouth, Islam cannot be reformed because Islam and reform cannot be said in the same sentence!! This should be a wake up call for the wide eyed liberals who keep talking about “moderate” Muslims who are apparently reformed Muslims! Oh, ain’t logic is wonderful – you can conclude whatever you want!! LOL….
HugoHackenbush says
“So we have right from horse’s mouth”
I was thinking the anatomic antipode.
Flavius Claudius Iulianus says
“anatomic antipode”
Oh that’s so good. I will steal it, for sure!
HugoHackenbush says
Great for underhanded commentary at a party. Takes a few seconds to “click”.
LeftisruiningCanada says
🙂
Westman says
We certainly can’t reform Islam’s liars:
“There is not one single source in either our Prophet’s teachings or in Islam that condones violence against women,” he said.
Try this, liar Ali Erbaş: “..and (as to) those[wives] on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them..” Quran 4:34
Keep repeating the lie of Islamic respect for women long enough and loud enough, Erbas, and no unbeliever will believe it. The condition(excuse) for beating wives is in your own unreformable Quran.
Moshe says
We live in an age of anxiety. When events in the world raise doubts and concerns regarding the wisdom of American policies in the Middle East, I find it reassuring to reread former President Obama’s historic remarks in Cairo in 2009.
“We meet,” said Pres. Obama in his transformational search for a New Beginning, “at a time of tension between the United States and Muslims around the world – tension rooted in historical forces that go beyond any current policy debate.” With these words our Nobel laureate looked beyond the details of current events to highlight centuries of oppression rooted in Western imperialism.
“The relationship between Islam and the West,” observed Pres. Obama, “includes centuries of co-existence and cooperation, but also conflict and religious wars. More recently, tension has been fed by colonialism that denied rights and opportunities to many Muslims, and a Cold War in which Muslim-majority countries were too often treated as proxies without regard to their own aspirations.
“Moreover, the sweeping change brought by modernity and globalization led many Muslims to view the West as hostile to the traditions of Islam.”
I urge J-W readers to study Pres. Obama’s speech for its broad insight into Western responsibility for the tragic violence of our post-9/11 world.
gravenimage says
Still not clear if “Moshe” is being sarcastic, or just trying to get a rise out of Jihad Watch readers…
HugoHackenbush says
I think the latter.
Hey Moshe! Stop quoting Mr. Obama and do some reading of source material. Read the Koran, Hadith and biography of Muhammad for yourSELF and then come back with an opinion as to the nature of Islam and its compatibility (as an ideology) with modern notions of individual rights, freedom of expression etc.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Yes, now where can i find some sackcloth and ashes?
Karen says
Good points, Moshe. Whenever I feel anxious about random jihad violence, I remember President Obama’s soaring rhetoric, and I get off my “high horse”, as he instructed. Pointing out issues regarding creeping Sharia law in the democratic West, jihad violence, etc. could lead to blasphemy; we must not cede the future to folks who would hurt the religious sentiments of others by speaking dangerous truths. When you think about it, blowing up a church today in Egypt seems pretty justified by the colonial past (well, the British did leave 90 years ago, but you know what I mean.) How could I, as a Westerner born after colonialism ended be any better than a jihad murderer? Potato-potaaato.
Kepha says
After all, the Christians of the Middle East descend from Muslims forcibly converted to Christianity by evil 19th century European colonialists paid by the Learned Elders of Zion and deserve to be either forced out or returned to the loving bosom of their ancestral Islam! [major sarcasm, and flip the bird to the Leftists demonstrators who probably believe this is true].
Karen says
Yes. If only absolutely nothing else had ever happened on planet Earth, Islam would now be in its true flower of form. Poor Islam, it’s always being stymied by all those other dang cultures that want to exist for some reason.
Julea Bacall says
The problem with Islam is not colonialism except the colonialism THEY did to every country around them including Africa and now Indonesia. Islam is colonialism and went on before USA was even born and before Britain or Europe were well established.
Karen says
Agree Julea. I was just playing with Moshe a bit. Our “Nobel Laureate” liked to explain away Jihad violence any way he could without blaming the real source. I think Moshe is just having a bit of fun.
Julea Bacall says
I know this is missing the main point completely and making it more difficult to deal with. It is not the ‘West’ or ‘colonialism’ that made the problem but t is part of what keeps it going. The problem is the Qur’an/Hadiths. Have you red it? Someone a few posts back descried it as a Chines finger puzzle where a human gets trapped. I call it a straight jacket like Hudini used (or mental hospitals) once in, its so hard to get out, it takes a remarkable person. The mental traps, especially of opposing Allah, are too big for people wrapped up with it from birth. Deep in the subconcious and conscious is the fear of trespassing a Creator (that can neither be proven or disproven). There is a slight chance that their own leaders can see the destruction and say they are going to remove all the Warlord statement that were written in by humans It can’t be done by outside. Only leaders could say ‘look, some humans added to what Jibrals message was & we will remove it. All these people DEPEND on a religion in such a deep way that no can just take it away and imagine that will work without behaving like the Chinese and slaughtering all who think, follow or try to teach their children. We SHOULD isolate from them but how can we make Corporations and Business Stay out? They smell money or opportunity to get cheap labor and bigger ‘markets’ won’t do it. Capitalism works much like Islam. There is no system on earth that seems to work in a healthy sustainable way with freedom today or in the past. Even Finland gets into the ‘market’ in Iran and other mideast countries as Islam has gotten into them.
Karen says
Julea, an intelligent post. One comment about capitalism, which has gone abroad and developed markets in places like Saudi Arabia but remains the fairest and most rational economic system invented by man. But, it takes greed on the level of the global elites to develop plans to change the very demographics and culture of entire continents. I would call this more if a central planning system. Recent example is the flabbergasting decision to import one million immigrants into Ireland, increasing its population by an astonishing 20%. Ireland still experiences significant emigration for lack of opportunity; where will one million immigrants get jobs? Who is developing jobs for the native population?
LeftisruiningCanada says
Great points karen. Like the Fascists i suspect them to be, the onces pushing for globalization in the ways you mention will use whatever best suits their purpose at any particular time.
gravenimage says
Turkey’s Religious Affairs chief: “Not correct to put the words of Islam and reform next to each other”
…………………….
God knows this is true. Only Mohammedans would brag about this, though…
HugoHackenbush says
“We, as the Directorate of Religious Affairs, reject every kind of interpretation and thought that condones violence against women. A woman is a mother and she is the most important creature, someone who stands by a human in every point [in their lives] and helps them. There is not one single source in either our Prophet’s teachings or in Islam that condones violence against women,” he said.”
Lying at its most bald-faced. Well, to be fair, maybe he just forgot the Koranic verse regarding “those [women] from whom you fear disobedience” and the final phase of dealing with them “beat them”.
HugoHackenbush says
The Imam must have been schooled at the Steve Martin University Of Jurisprudence in which he advises “if you ever find yourself accused of armed robbery and murder, you just tell them…that you…forgot. You forgot armed robbery and murder were crimes. What can they do to you?! Hey! You forgot!”.
Ren says
The words of Islam and reform don’t go together, but islam and bullshit do.
Wellington says
Can’t reform rot.
StellaSaidSo says
+1
LeftisruiningCanada says
That’s right. Gotta cut it out and replace with something new.
Unless there’s more rot than good. Then it’s a problem.
Guy Forester says
Shall we try another poll?
Question of the Day: Is anyone with an IQ greater than his/her shoe size really surprised by this?
+1 = Yes
-1 = No
mortimer says
Ali Erbaş is the CHIEF of the Directorate of Religious Affairs (Diyanet), a position that historically had the prestige of being linked to the CALIPHATE and therefore speaking for ALL MUSLIMS.
Do ANY of our WESTERN POLITICIANS actually GET this??
Are they all so ILL-READ and ILL-ADVISED and ILL-PREPARED about Islam that they know NOTHING.
It seems that with the exceptions of Geert Wilders and Lord Pearson, that most Western politicians HAVE NOT DONE THEIR HOMEWORK and that they are CULPABLY NEGLIGENT in the matter of Islam!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6kWrI0V0LQ
StellaSaidSo says
+1
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
It is filthy christianity which needs reforms to filter out filths of paganism like Godman and begotten son Of God from mithraism and savagery of Stone age way of life appearing half-naked líke group of monkeys.Islam moves with time and as such no need to Reform Its fundamentals
Peter says
No shirking “shirk.”
Islam never had “Middle Ages,” an Enlightenment or Reformation.
It remains pre-modern and inherently hostile to all non-Muslims worldwide.
mortimer says
So Ibrahim says that following will not be reformed:
1 No Golden Rule 2 No free speech 3 No democracy 4 Jihad – holy war of supremacism 5 Honour killings 6 Taqiyya – sacred lying 7 Taqlid – group think 8 Circular reasoning 9 Misogyny – repression of women 10 Rape of kafirs as jihad prizes 11 Genocide 12 Ethnic cleansing 13 Al-Walaa wal-Baraa – Islamic apartheid 14 Torture 15 Plundering 16 Cruel and unusual punishments 16 Backwardness – stagnation 17 Violence against women 18 Slavery 19 Discriminatory Sharia law 20 Hatred of the arts 21 No music 22 Pedophilia disguised as child marriage 23 Fifty generations of cousin marriage and genetic defects 24 Cruelty to animals 25 Extortion tax to humiliate disbelievers 26 No historic basis 27 Anti-intellectual obscurantism 28 FGM 29 Arab racism 30 Theocratic totalitarianism 31 Vigilantism 32 Amoral, opportunistic character of Mohammed that all Muslims must imitate 33 Hatred of non-Muslims as an essential doctrine 34 History of Islam includes the genocidal murders of 270 million non-Muslims in Islamic holy wars, terrorism, persecutions and enslavement directed against non-Muslims.
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
mortimer, are you satisfied with mithraist christian god computed as 1satan =f(1+1+1)=Godman +Idol worships =holy spirit in yahweh and his wife Ashera hero gods =All evils like genocide, ethnic cleansing, colonisation or neocolonisation and deprivations of other nations, nudity, priests having anus and vaginal sex with Kids under their care, indiscriminate sex líke beasts, lies, blackmails and nastiness ?
LeftisruiningCanada says
Goodness what a broken dirty record.
And i do mean broken.
And dirty.
Keys says
Itace expects everyone to believe that he (or she) and Mohammad understands the nature of God !
His continued accusational nonesense about a “mithraist christian god” is tiresome and telling.
Julea Bacall says
Your way of thinking shows EXACTLY the problem with Islam. Its a perfect example of the PROBLEM. Only changes from wiping out the warlord superstitions and passages added by humans can come from WITHIN, someday when it is seen how destructive it is, Leaders may work together to strip all human warlord ideas from it. Until then, other people should never have anything to do with Muslims in general because you will hurt us. And you will pretend its Allahs will when it is NOT.
And the anti Jewish thing is the worst. Wanting to Own Abrahams Jewish history is plain theft and is making so many PROBLEMS and no solutions. Making everyone follow Islam is not a solution and most of it has been fabricated by warlords. So live how you want to live in you own countries and leave everyone ELSE ALONE.
FYI says
And it is not correct ..
to put the words islam and “religion of peace” together
to put the name muhammed and “prophet” {or “pbuh”} together
to put the hate-filled antisemitic,antiChristian words of the “holy” koran together with the Bible
to put islam together with “Abrahamic religion”….’cos it isn’t
to put the word koran and “perfect book” together
to put the word islam in a sentence with “Reason,Compassion,love or truth”
to put the term muslim troll with the word “intelligent” together in a sentence.
It is NOT true that..
islam is the “religion of peace”
{1400+ years of Godless savagery in the name of their god allah..}
muhammed was a “perfect man”
{don’t be ridiculous..have you read his life story??A mass-murdering,slave-trading,polygamist with a child bride..}
The “holy” koran is a “perfect” book.
{what? with all the warped commandment-of-God violating teachings of allah and the Theology mistakes?}
FYI says
It is certainly not correct to put the following together…
islam and “religion of peace”
muhammed and “perfect man”
the koran and “perfect book”
islamic taqqiya merchants and trolls …and “intelligent”
dsinc says
Reformed Muslims are called———–Infidels!
Keys says
Yep, to be killed wherever you find them.
Reformed Islam is mischief in the land.
Allah perfected religion and perfection need not be reformed.
mortimer says
WHY ISLAM CANNOT BE REFORMED… IT WILL LEAD TO A COUNTERATTACK by ORTHODOX ISLAM BIGGER THAN ISIS…
“Being a student of Islamic theology for last two decades, I can categorically tell you that ideology (Islam) cannot be amended or reformed. The only way of securing the world and our societies from radical or extremist version of Islam is to dis-empower the clergy, promote and strengthen secular values.
… When we talk about reformation, we are talking about the same issue i.e. reinterpretation of Quran, asking Muslims to discard what they believed for the last 1400 years, as well as to change the basic ideology of struggle to impose supremacy of Divine Laws through Jihad and tableegh. In short, to give up the idea of monotheism and submit to a man-made ideology, for example secularism. Logically speaking, such reformation is primarily linked with the idea of discarding History and Hadith, which has been a part of Islam, since last 1200 years. This, according to my meager understanding, is not possible and will unleash a new monster of resistance, probably even more dangerous than militancy…”
by Junaid A Malik · July 28, 2015 http://www.faithfreedom.org/why-islam-cannot-be-reformed/
No Muzzies Here says
They have told us very clearly that there is no reform possible in Islam. You either accept it as it is, with its extreme propensity to violence, or not at all. The latter would be preferable.
mortimer says
NMH, you are correct. The ONLY solution is ABSOLUTE DEPROGRAMMING… a government-sponsored education system to deprogram Muslims DIRECTLY and PERMANENTLY OUT OF ISLAM.
No half-measures will work, because the primary source texts of Islam REMAIN. The primary source texts of Islam claim DIVINE INSPIRATION and DIVINE AUTHORITY ETERNALLY.
Only be thoroughly debunking these elaborate HOAXES will Muslims be free of their backwardness.
Keys says
With respect mortimer, it would take a lucky lobotomy to “absolutely deprogram” some Mohammadans.
Keys says
Take Ibrahim itace Muhammed, for example. Think he could be absolutely deprogrammed through government sponsored education or a lobotomy ?
Carol (the 1st) says
Mortimer…Even Westerners versed in Islamic doctrine continually make the error of accidentally projecting their Christian conscience and Aristotelian logic upon muslims. Do you think psychologists can miraculously do much better? And do you think we can afford to finance assembly lines for laundering demented psyches while madrassas keep printing more Korans and spitting out more fools? What psychological techniques do you have such faith in? You don’t seem to elaborate and all that comes to mind as being at all feasible is EXTREME Aversion Therapy (perhaps you’d like to volunteer to round up the incorrigible Ibrahim Itace for our very first trial run?):
Slumdog millionaire-torture scene
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=
Carol (the 1st) says
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaBV3ZsSQpM
Carol (the 1st) says
You’ve also overlooked the additional great cost of paddywagons for rounding them up and then armed bodyguards for the psychologist and his loved ones at all times.
CogitoErgoSum says
There are those who say that many verses in the Quran have been abrogated or apply only to the time of Muhammad. In addition, the Quran as it currently stands does not have the verses arranged in chronological order. Why couldn’t a clear division be made in the Quran between the abrogated and the outdated verses and the non-abrogated and currently valid verses? That would not be changing any of the words in the Quran and would make it more easily understandable for everyone. The question is: Was the current order of the verses in the Quran determined by Allah or by one of the Caliphs? If the answer is that the order was determined by a Caliph, why can’t the order of the Quran be changed? Why can’t outdated verses or abrogated verses be set aside? Why can’t the Quran be divided in a manner similar to the way the Bible is divided into Old and New Testament?
If Muslims were truly interested in resolving the problem of the Quran being misinterpreted, they would be working on this problem as a top priority.
Carol (the 1st) says
it was “dictated” by Moe’s sock puppet. You still don’t get that you don’t mess with “perfection”.
Carol (the 1st) says
Cogito Ergo…Any “reformers” who want to keep ANY version of Islam (other than out of absolute despair and fear of a worse alternative such as nuclear holocaust and ‘perhaps’ genocide) don’t rate in my books (I don’t include you in that category BTW).
Dr. Bill Warner has a video which well explains the DUALISM inherent in Islam and how very well it works for them. Why throw out the sugar-coated verses when they disguise the wolf, confuse the unsuspecting, buy time, and flatter the masses? And why throw out the wolf when he cripples and coerces more victims and thus brings home the “bacon” all while being protected by those who wish to see themselves as “true believers” to their graven image?
In the video Mortimer posted above Dr. Warner describes how there is NO CENTRAL AUTHORITY in Islam – al Azhar for instance is merely a collection of ‘scholars’. The scattered and ORGANIZED imams seem to be the real troublemakers and the slippery, elusive gut-rot of Islam (I think Annie Cyrus has said as much) and we should figure out how to nail them to the wall. They and their Koran make for dangerous people and a red line needs to be explained and drawn in whatever language they understand.
seabird says
Aren’t “export” versions of Islamic doctrine routinely edited of their violent teachings like diagrams of vivisection torture techniques?
Wouldn’t simply transalating it into other languages also be forbidden?
Couldn’t the violent/racist 164 verses (which are nothing more than hate speech) be edited from their literature- or they lose their tax-exempt status in the US as a religion?
Couldn’t a bright defense attorney blame islams teachings for inspiring his jihadi clients’ violence and mass-murder and appeal that case (and others) all the way to the Supreme Court for analysis and determination hopefully forcing a removal of those teachings?
About 30 years ago, the Feds prosecuted and convicted Aryan Nation founder Tom Metzger for publishing literature which inspired his followers to violence and murder.
He was jailed and all his property seized.
There is a precedent.
Carol (the 1st) says
Any new versions of the Koran and any new legal precedents etc. would only be superficially and strategically accepted if deemed sadly and temporarily necessary. They are “the best of people” with the “perfect and final message” and vainglorious, slavish dedication has been bred into their silly bones. They and their book will only await in the wings. The creed has to be eliminated. Who would have suspected that humans could be so self-enslaving and foolish? Like jailbirds they seem to have fallen in love with the “institution they know” and are afraid of the greater world awaiting outside.
Indiana Tom says
Turkey’s Directorate of Religious Affairs (Diyanet) head Ali Erbaş has said the words Islam and reform should not appear in the same sentence. Satanic religion.
Last news I read is that the Turk Muslims are killing off Christians again in Afrin, like they did in Armenia..
https://www.ncronline.org/news/world/churches-syrian-enclave-say-turkish-bombing-killing-civilians
CogitoErgoSum says
Turkey is fast becoming the new (and unreformed) ISIS.
Indiana Tom says
I was looking for this article but I could not remember where it was in relation to the Turks going after Christians.
http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2018/03/16/u-n-envoy-turkey-war-crimes-against-christians-syria-foreshadow-genocide/