“Open Mosque Day offers many first glimpse into Islam,” by David Bitton, CNHI News Oklahoma, April 15, 2018:
People of all faiths were welcomed with warm smiles and open arms last Sunday as the Islamic Center of Stillwater participated in a statewide Open Mosque Day.
In addition to being able to show off their new facility at 616 N. Washington St., the program was set up so speakers could educate guests about Islam and the Muslim faith in a comfortable setting.
Guests also had the opportunity to sample food and drink from around the world.
At these Open Mosque events, the free food — offering a sample of exotic foods from Moroccan tajines and couscous to Pakistani curries and Indonesian rijstaffel — is not only about food, but is a central instrument for breaking down any potential resistance of visitors, putting them in the right festive mood to accept the presentation of Islam that they will be offered, grateful to their attentive hosts who, in piling high their guests’ plates with exotic offerings, know exactly what they are doing, in reducing their guests’ mental defenses against taqiyya. The modus operandi is to envelop the visitors in an atmosphere of warmth, sincerity, friendship, comfort; the food and drink “from around the world” never fails to help.
After Natarianto Indrawan sang Adhan – the Muslim call to prayer – Habeeb Idress explained to the audience that Muslims pray five times a day.
“Prayer is a private dialogue between you and Allah,” Idress said.
The audience watched as rows of standing men knelt down, bowed and touched their foreheads to the ground over and over again.
So the evening begins with non-Muslim visitors hearing the Call to Prayer which, the imam reminds his visitors, “President Obama said was one of the the sweetest sounds in the world.” These guests feel privileged, being allowed to view Muslims at prayer. In fact, there is nothing particularly special about such viewing. All over Europe you can see Muslims praying in city streets and plazas; they are indifferent to the presence of Infidels, even seeming to flaunt their power as they take control of a public space. Now, in the mosque, the visitors watch as serried ranks of men prostrate themselves, facing Mecca-wards (the imam explains: “you see, no matter where in the world Muslims may be, they will always turn toward Mecca in prayer”). For many of the visitors, this may be an impressive display of communal faith. Others may find that as the worshippers touch their foreheads to the ground in near-unison, then straighten up, and then again prostrate themselves, repeating this many times, that they are reminded not of Christian or Jewish prayers but, disturbingly, of an act of collective political fealty, something out of goose-stepping Pyongyang, or reminiscent of a Nuremberg rally, where arms are raised simultaneously in salute.
“I’m very happy to see people from throughout the community attending,” Indrawan said. “This event could unite everyone without thinking where they are from or what their background is and can make Stillwater stronger.”
Hatim Hegab, public cultural coordinator for the Islamic Center of Stillwater, couldn’t agree more.
“We were trying to build bridges between the Islamic Center and the people in Stillwater,” he said.
How are these “bridges” being built between “the Islamic Center and the people in Stillwater”? How is Stillwater becoming “stronger”? Apparently, by events such as these, where nothing of major significance, we will discover, is either asked or answered about Islam, but in a cosy atmosphere of interfaith feelgood (leading some visitors to conclude that “we all worship the same God”), generous portions of taqiyya are served up. The visitors are welcomed by their Muslim hosts, who know exactly what they are doing, beginning with those “warm smiles and open arms” with which they greet their visitors. Who are these visitors? Most of them are innocents who, wanting to find out more about Islam, figure the best place to do it is at a mosque or Islamic Center that has opened its doors to “people of all faiths.” As for those who do know something about Islam, they may not want to endure what they correctly suspect will be an hour or two of propaganda. But they are the very people who should be there, out of a sense of duty, for they can do the most good, by insistently raising issues that the hosts would prefer not be discussed, questioning a presentation, rebutting the misstatements and lies, all in the politest possible way, and always referring to, and quoting from, Islamic texts and teachings. They can provide food for thought to other Infidels in attendance, who without their well-prepared participation might otherwise be taken in.
These open-mosque events follow a predictable pattern. First, there is the warm welcome to “our Christian and Jewish friends who’ve come to our Open-Mosque event, with your open minds and open hearts — you can see that ‘openness’ is the theme of this gathering (laughter) — to learn about our faith, Islam.” Then there will be the usual misleading remarks about the word “Islam”: “As some of you may know, the very word ‘Islam’ is related to ‘salaam,’ peace, as in our greeting ‘salaam aleikum,’ peace be with you. The root of the word Islam, silm, refers to ‘making peace, being in a mutually peaceful environment, greetings, finding peace’ — that’s what Islam, the authentic Islam, as Pope Francis has rightly said, is all about. It has nothing to do with violence. But of course we’re not denying that there are madmen and extremists who call themselves Muslims; we’ve all heard the same terrible stories. Yes, there are such crazies in every religion. I don’t need to remind anyone in Oklahoma about Timothy McVeigh. But keep in mind that there are 1.6 billion Muslims in the world, and we keep hearing about the one-one-hundredth of 1% who belong to ISIS and al-Qaeda. Isn’t it time we heard about all the others? Tonight we’re going to talk about the 99.99% of the world’s Muslims who simply lead their peaceful lives, raising their families, giving back to their communities, no different from anyone else.”
The speaker continues: “Another thing you might not know is that we’ve been here since the time of Columbus — some of his crew members were Muslims, that’s a fact we tend to forget, and many others came over as slaves from Africa. Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, John Adams all mentioned Muslims — they called them “Mohammedans’” — as having the same right to practice their religion as anyone else. Thomas Jefferson studied the Qur’an, and apparently held it in high respect; he held the first Iftar dinner in the White House in 1805. That’s another fact most people don’t know. We are as American as anyone else. We’re lawyers, and doctors, teachers and small businessmen, we’re policemen and firemen, serving our communities, and we’re soldiers serving our country.”
And then: “But now let me turn to the faith itself. Let’s begin with the basics: the Five Pillars of Islam.” At this point, the Muslim hosts might even hand out sheets listing those Five Pillars, giving both their Arabic and English names, making it easier for their non-Muslim guests to follow along as their hosts discuss each one: “There is Shahada (the Profession of Faith), Salat (the five daily prayers), Zakat (the obligatory charity), Sawm (the fasting during Ramadan), and Hajj (the pilgrimage to Mecca which a Muslim, if he can afford it, should undertake at least once in his life).” Each is discussed briefly, in turn. Who could object to any of this? Well, you could, and I could, if we know what is not being discussed about the Five Pillars. Others will be impressed by the religious fervor of Muslims, and be in no mood to disagree with their hosts, who insist that “We Muslims have a different style of prayer, as you will see. We don’t sit or stand, but prostrate ourselves, facing toward Mecca. And we take our duty of prayer five times a day very seriously, beginning before sunrise and ending after sunset. But we all pray to the same God.” Murmurs among the guests. They’re impressed.
The Muslim hosts may refer inter-faithfully to supposed similarities: “Just as you have Lent, we have Ramadan,” and “we Muslims engage in charity, the same way that Christians and Jews do. Except for us it is obligatory.” Now you should ask your first disturbing question, which is about the recipients of that obligatory Zakat. You should state that you have read, at Muslim sites, that Zakat can be given only to fellow Muslims, or to those non-Muslims who are on their way to converting to Islam and for whom the receipt of such Zakat may further “soften their hearts” toward conversion. If the Muslim hosts deny this, and claim that Zakat is meant for everyone, refer them to the many online Muslim sites — as here — where you obtained that information. Make sure your fellow guests hear you when you repeat, loudly, the link to one of those websites (as “www.quora.com”). This will worry your hosts, who were not prepared for this. Infidel guests, in their view, are supposed to behave themselves, to accept what they are told, not to impolitely contradict their hosts. Who knows more about Islam, anyway — Muslims, or Unbelievers?
Then you should follow up by declaring that you have just one other question. “Isn’t it true,” you ask, that “in saying their five daily prayers, Muslims actually curse the Kuffars — Christians and Jews?” Impassive faces of your guests, attempting to hide their fury. A rustle of interest among your fellow non-Muslims, wondering just who you are. Ideally, you will nave written out in advance on a notecard, so that you may read verbatim, the following from Robert Spencer: “In the course of praying the requisite five prayers a day, an observant Muslim will recite the Fatihah, the first surah of the Qur’an and the most common prayer in Islam, seventeen times. The final two verses of the Fatihah ask Allah: ‘Show us the straight path, the path of those whom Thou hast favoured; not the (path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray.’ The traditional Islamic understanding of this is that the ‘straight path’ is Islam — cf. Islamic apologist John Esposito’s book Islam: The Straight Path. The path of those who have earned Allah’s anger are the Jews, and those who have gone astray are the Christians.” This will lead to confusion and ill-concealed distress, on the part of your hosts, and likely they will deny that “those who earn anger” means Jews or that “those who have gone astray” means Christians.
At that point, reading again from a notecard, and before your hosts can get a word in edgewise, you can quote Spencer on what the Qur’anic commentator Ibn Kathir, as well as other Islamic authorities, have understood those verses of the Fatihah to mean:
The renowned Qur’anic commentator Ibn Kathir explains that “the two paths He described here are both misguided,” and that those “two paths are the paths of the Christians and Jews, a fact that the believer should beware of so that he avoids them. The path of the believers is knowledge of the truth and abiding by it. In comparison, the Jews abandoned practicing the religion, while the Christians lost the true knowledge. This is why ‘anger’ descended upon the Jews, while being described as ‘led astray’ is more appropriate of the Christians.”
Ibn Kathir’s understanding of this passage is not a lone “extremist” interpretation. In fact, most Muslim commentators believe that the Jews are those who have earned Allah’s wrath and the Christians are those who have gone astray. This is the view of Tabari, Zamakhshari, the Tafsir al-Jalalayn, the Tanwir al-Miqbas min Tafsir Ibn Abbas, and Ibn Arabi, as well as Ibn Kathir.
At this point, your hosts will be thoroughly alarmed at this display of knowledge. They can’t admit that you are right, so will have to content themselves with suggesting that you don’t really understand the complexity of Qur’anic interpretation. “And besides, do you really think that 1.6 billion Muslims get up every day, and seventeen times a day — why seventeen, anyway? — they curse Christians and Jews? You are quoting this Spencer fellow, who I regret to say is infamous for trying to cause trouble among our three abrahamic faiths. I’m not surprised he’s your source. Don’t take my word for it. Just look online at what the Southern Poverty Law Center has to say about Spencer.” That ad hominem attack still won’t constitute an adequate response to what Ibn Kathir and those other Qur’anic commentators claimed about the reference, in the Fatihah, to Christians and Jews. They can’t be dismissed, even if it is Spencer who quotes them. Many of your fellow guests will have been impressed with your intervention.
Of course this didn’t happen. None of the visitors on Open Mosque Day in Stillwater raised such matters. But wherever mosques, or Islamic centers, open wide their doors, it could, and should, happen. It takes only one, or ideally two well-prepared visitors, unbowed, to undo the smooth unrolling of the planned script. Imagine if, among the visitors to the Islamic Center in Stilllwater, there had been even one who knew that the five daily prayers included the cursing of the kuffars, and had quoted the paragraphs by Spencer given above. Among the non-Muslim visitors hearing this exchange, some would have begun to wonder if, just possibly, they should look into the matter for themselves. If they do so, googling on their smartphones “Robert Spencer,” “prayer,” and “seventeen times,” they will find still other Muslim commentators whom Spencer quoted in support of his view. That should definitely unsettle both guests and, for different reasons, their Muslim hosts.
The newspaper account of the Open Mosque held in Stillwater makes no mention of any discussion of Jihad. The meaning, significance, and 1400-year history of Jihad, the very topics that should matter most to non-Muslims, were apparently not brought up by either guests or hosts. The visitors were likely too eager to get along, or too ignorant, or both, to raise the matter with their Muslim hosts. Why bring up inconvenient subjects when it’s so much easier to stick to feelgood pieties and to accept what you are told?
But if someone did ask about Jihad — “What exactly is Jihad?” — at a mosque or Islamic Center in Stillwater or anywhere else, that person would of course be told by the discussion leader that “Jihad’s main meaning has nothing to do with violence, which I know many non-Muslims may not realize. But it’s true. It’s only the extremists, al-Qaeda and ISIS on one side, and of course the Islamophobes on the other, who want you to think that Jihad is all about war. Pope Francis himself has said that ‘authentic Islam and the proper reading of the Quran are opposed to every form of violence.’ The real Jihad is the struggle to master one’s own self. It’s what is called the Jihad al-nafs, that is much more important than the Jihad al-saif, the Jihad of the Sword, which gets so much attention. There are stories about what the Prophet Muhammad did and said, called the hadith, and one of them tells the story of how the Prophet returned home from fighting, declaring that he had come back from the ‘Lesser Jihad’ to the ‘Greater Jihad’ of life at home, and the need to master himself.” Will the original questioner, or any of the visitors, know enough to point out that that oft-quoted story comes from a single, weak hadith? Certainly not.
As I said previously, the only way to contain, though it would be impossible to end altogether, the taqiyya, the misstatements, the lies inflicted on unwary visitors at these Open-Mosque events is for someone to show up — it could be you, answering the call — sufficiently acquainted with both the Qur’an and Hadith to challenge statements that are made, able to raise subjects that are being ignored, and to provide textual support — mainly Qur’anic verses, but with a handful of hadith as well, written out on notecards, ready to be read aloud — for everything he says. This should cause those Muslim hosts no end of trouble. You might even preface your own questions and comments by discussing taqiyya itself as the “religiously-sanctioned dissimulation or denial, of both Islamic belief and practice” in order to protect both the faith and the Believers. Just imagine the effect if you read off a half-dozen quotes, from Muslim scholars, about taqiyya, had at the ready as well Muhammad’s statement in Sahih Bukhari 52.269 that “war is deceit,” and could quote in full the remark by the commentator Ibn Kathir, who wrote that “those believers who in some areas or times fear for their safety from the disbelievers…are allowed to show friendship to the disbelievers outwardly, but never inwardly.” Ibn Kathir further quotes Muhammad’s companion, Abu Ad-Darda, who said “we smile in the face of some people although our hearts curse them.” Overwhelmed by such authorities, there is nothing that your Muslim hosts can reply. They can only offer some feeble response such as “taqiyya is a Shi’a doctrine; we are Sunnis,” or try to dismiss you with “Islamophobes are always bringing up taqiyya, but you should know that it is not something that has been observed for the last thousand years.”
By this time, you will have disturbed your Open-Mosque hosts, as they ponder how to respond to you and your troublesome knowledge. They may try to ignore you, by not calling on you any further. But this will be noticed by your fellow Unbelievers and interpreted, correctly, as a sign that you are too well-informed for these Muslims to handle. Your worrisome display of knowledge, which you are careful to courteously dispense, will disrupt at the very start this Open-Mosque event. This kind of disruption, of course, need not be limited to Open-Mosque and Ask-A-Muslim-Anything events. I once phoned into a radio show that had Tariq Ramadan as its suave guest, and asked him about the “taqiyya” he was practicing (I forget exactly what it was he had just lied about). His response was to feign outrage at my ignorance: didn’t I know taqiyya was practiced only by Shi’a Muslims, and that he was a Sunni? I replied that the doctrine originated among the Shi’a but was then adopted by the Sunnis, and among Muslims has never fallen into desuetude. He had no answer save a scornful “you just don’t know what you are talking about” and he went on quickly to something else, but listeners could sense he had been rattled. It made my day.
You should know, before you attend any Open-Mosque event, that 109 verses in the Qur’an are about Jihad warfare, and be able to quote, from notecards, a dozen or so, including the “Verse of the Sword” (9:5), and 9:29, as well as several of the “terror” verses, including 3:151, 8:12 and 8:60. Read out a few: Allah says he will “cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve” (3:151). He tells his prophet: “[Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, “I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip.” (8:12) “And prepare against them whatever you are able of power and of steeds of war by which you may terrify the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them whom you do not know [but] whom Allah knows.” (8:60)
You should quote, too, Muhammad’s famous claim that “I have been made victorious through terror” and give the source, which will impress other guests and scare your Muslim hosts, in that most authoritative collection of hadith, Sahih Bukhari, at 4.52.220. How can all these verses and these remarks by Muhammad, be explained away, or ignored?
Now let’s return to the Stillwater hosts:
Hegab said that since roughly 60 percent of practicing Muslims in the immediate area are Oklahoma State University students, the event was “a good opportunity to meet people and make friends.”
Hegab was hopeful guests walked away with their questions answered and a better understanding of Islam.
If you know very little, or nothing, about Islam, you will not know what questions to ask, nor what answers to challenge. You won’t know the true meaning of the word “Islam.” You won’t know about the limits on who can receive Zakat, or about the cursing of kuffars in the five daily prayers. You won’t know about all the verses that command Believers to wage Jihad in the Qur’an. You won’t know about the verses that tell Muslims to “strike terror” in the hearts of the Unbelievers. You won’t know that in the Qur’an Muslims are described as the “best of peoples,” while Infidels are “the most vile of creatures.” Before attending one of these events, try to prepare yourself as best you can. You could start by googling “Jihad,” “Jizyah,” “taqiyya,” “dhimmi” and go from there, reading the Qur’an, online, with exegetical commentaries. The more you know, the more difficult it will be to lead you astray.
Back at the Stillwater Mosque:
The event has been going on approximately 15 years, according to Hegab.
The community is encouraged to come by and ask questions, Hegab said.
OSU students Matt Durkee, 22, Ethan Williams, 19, and Cooper Kegley, 18, who attend First Presbyterian Church of Stillwater, said they were impressed with what they saw last Sunday.
What did these three young men see? A few smiling Muslims ready with the standard lines of every Muslim apologist, about what “Islam” means, the real meaning of “Jihad,” the Five Pillars, dismissal of the “extremists” who “misunderstand” Islam and, possibly, discussion of 2:256 (“There is no compulsion in religion”) and then of 5:32, which in carefully abridged form, appears to denounce killing, but if read in full, and along with 5:33, explains when, and gruesomely how, killing is permissible. These are the two favorite Qur’anic verses of the apologists. As to 2:256, you can ask how that verse squares with the punishment, which can even be death, for apostates from Islam. Isn’t the threat of death considered “compulsion”? And isn’t the treatment of dhimmis sufficiently onerous to cause — that is, “compel” — some of them to convert to Islam? As to 5:32, you need only read out the whole verse, followed by 5:33, to reveal its true meaning. That should enrage your hosts, but they will have to maintain a forced impassivity.
They [the three young men] were invited to attend by their pastor, Leah Hrachovec, who was one of the guest speakers.
“I’m surprised how normal it was,” said Durkee, aerospace engineering master’s student.
Williams said he had always been curious about Islam and Kegley, [sic] who are both aviation majors, noted the similarities.
“We are really not that different,” Kegley said. “We both pray to God.”
Nathan Schoenfeld, 20, an entrepreneurship major, also stopped by to see the mosque.
“Islam is not well known in Arkansas,” Schoenfeld said about the state where he grew up. “It is really just different people with different religions praying to the same God.”
So it comes down to this level of sublime idiocy. 1400 years of Jihad warfare against all non-Muslims, warfare that is solidly based on the Islamic texts — Qur’an and hadith — along with inculcated contempt and hatred for the Unbelievers — is reduced to this: “We are really not that different. We both pray to God,” and still more idiotic, we are “really just different people with different religions praying to the same God.” Karen Armstrong would be pleased. Stillwaters, alas, do not run deep.
Stephanie Wheatley was a 19-year-old political science major at OSU when America was attacked on 9/11.
She remembers hearing people saying negative things about Islam and Muslims and called her father to vent.
“What are you going to do about it?” she remembers him asking.
She went on to get her doctorate and has taught religious studies at OSU.
“Jesus’ most famous sermon in the gospel is the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew,” Wheatley said. “Jesus said, ‘Blessed are the peace makers, for they will be called children of God.’ I don’t think that is just blessed are the Christian peace makers or the Jewish peace makers or the Muslim peace makers. Blessed are the peace makers, without provocation, for they will be called the children of God. I think if we can focus on that, we’ve done something.”
Which Muslim peace makers are these? Possibly Stephanie Wheatley will understand things better after she studies what Muhammad taught, and how he lived his life. She could begin with his most famous sayings, which she may usefully compare with the sermons of Jesus. She won’t find praise of “peace makers” anywhere in Islam. The Qur’an is a manual of war. Muslims are commanded in 109 verses of the Qur’an to wage Jihad. All praise goes to those who fight in the way of Allah against the Infidels; the highest praise, and greatest reward in the afterlife, goes to those who die while fighting the Infidels. They are told to kill the Unbelievers, wherever they find them. In several verses, they are told to “strike terror” in the hearts of the Infidels. They must wage war until the entire world belongs to Allah. Muhammad famously said that “war is deceit,” and claimed that “I have been made victorious through terror.” These are not Christian sentiments. 1.6 billion Muslims are taught that the man who uttered them, the Prophet Muhammad, is the “Perfect Man” (al-insan al-kamil) and the Model of Conduct (uswa hasana). This “Model of Conduct” who consummated his marriage to Aisha when she was nine years old, who was glad to hear when his loyal followers had murdered those — Asma bin Marwan, Abu Afak, Ka’b bin al-Ashraf — who had mocked him, who participated himself in killing 600-900 bound prisoners of the Banu Qurayza, was nothing like Jesus, either in his teachings or in his life.
These Open-Mosque events, like the one in Stillwater, Oklahoma, are being held all over the place. They depend, for their success, on the ignorance and naivety of visitors, people whose visit to a mosque leads them to conclude only that “we all worship the same God.” It does not take much, but it does take something, to prepare oneself to become a warrior for truth, to attend these endless exercises in taqiyya, and to undermine the nonsense and lies, sowing confusion among the Muslim hosts, merely by offering a handful of pointed questions to which you already know, and are ready in detail to provide, the answers. Given the civilizational stakes, it’s a task worth taking on.
Pet Charles says
One problem! Columbus NEVER visited America!! Most of the slaves were captured from Islamic jihad and transported in yolks from the interior and sold to traders on the West African coast. The comparatively few who were Muslims were captured in retaliatory attacks!!
Richard says
Absolutely true! I have heard that the survival rate of black slaves taken from Africa by Muslims was about 10-15%,, whereas the slaves taken to Europe or America was around 80-90%. That says a lot about he concern of Muslims for their slaves.
gravenimage says
+1
mortimer says
I went to a mosque on ‘open house’ day and found they would not explain the name of the mosque to me (it was subversive and suggested the conquest of my country). I looked on the notice board and found there was a recommendation for people to learn martial arts. Why would peace-loving people take martial arts? ‘Martial’ means ‘related to warfare’. A young veiled Somali woman asked if I wanted help. I asked her if she would do jihad during Ramadan. She said she would. Apparently, she understood the rewards of conducting jihad in Ramadan. I asked my questions in a low key manner, but after trying to get straight answers I noticed they shrugged their shoulders and SMILED.
gravenimage says
Thanks for that account, Mortimer.
And yes–lots of Mosques have disturbing names; many are named after Jihad conquerers.
Mockingjay says
…and they are also oftentimes called by names that refer DIRECTLY to the “Hijra” – the “immigration for allah”, the immigration to conquer new territory for islam.
– Of course they trust that the silly Westeners haven’t got a clue what all these arab words really mean – or imply.
– They’re laughing in our faces. Guess that’s where all those “warm smiles” originate from.
gravenimage says
Also true, Mockingjay.
Julea Bacall says
I also went to a Ramadan open house before I knew anything about Islam. I was curious and thought I should learn something about them. I had the meal, got a tour and a free Qur’an and met someone named Anwar al Awlaki who happened to be traveling through town and seemed to have quite a following. Later, I read the Qur’an and was horrified. How could that book be the basis of what they had been telling me of their beautiful and perfect religion. I was even more so when I found out who Awlaki was. I did more research and I cannot believe anyone could support such a thing in USA. And I am a liberal. That is why I wanted to learn more about these people. I am glad I did but what a shock. I also found out most of my liberal friends only hear the word Religion and stop right there. ‘Its just a religion.’ But its not at all. Its a Warlord Manual of how to conquer others using their own people who are driven by fear of Allah, fear of going against Islam even in their own thoughts, and wishing for the approval of their pack, their team, their Gang (else they could get killed by their own or punished by Allah)
gravenimage says
Julea Bacall wrote:
I also went to a Ramadan open house before I knew anything about Islam. I was curious and thought I should learn something about them. I had the meal, got a tour and a free Qur’an and met someone named Anwar al Awlaki who happened to be traveling through town and seemed to have quite a following…
……………………
Julea, that’s terrifying.
Julea Bacall says
Especially AFTER I read the Qur’an and found out who was who. BEFORE, it meant nothing to me. When I was introduced to the guy with his flock who included a few blonde haired young women, he looked at me hard and walked away without speaking, shaking his head. very rude. It kind of bothered me (BEFORE) and I thought he saw something in me he did not like, and so many people around him seemed to think he was something important. Now, I hope what he saw was that I could never be fooled by this movement & could never follow.
TheBuffster says
It always amazes me that Muslims doing PR give away copies of the Koran.
I’ve always suspected that they give away watered down Korans to kafirs, but then again, to doctor a Koran and put it out into the world would seem to be a grave sin.
Anyhow, encouraging non-Muslims to read the Koran seems to me to be counter productive of any PR aim. Maybe the real aim is to attract those non-Muslims to the religion who find the content of the book attractive, hoping that most other visitors won’t bother to read it, taking it as a generous gesture only and being put off by the first few pages of boring repetition. (It took me three or four false starts when I tried to read the Koran, and I finally read it aloud with my husband so we could discuss what we were reading as we went along.)
Julea Bacall says
Yes, it is hard to read. I also heard one Imam say the Qur’an is like clear water. When a bad person looks into it he sees bad things. A good person sees good things. I think that is like the old story of the Emperors clothes. Remember the tailor said bad people could not see the beautiful clothes. So everyone pretended they could see them and raved how great the tailor was to make them. Then an innocent child said, ‘but the Emp is naked! ‘ Everyone knew he was naked but afraid to look bad until an innocent kid told the simple truth. Its kind of like that only worse if you get punished or killed for saying anything other than how perfect and beautiful it is.
But Americans have to read it & the hadiths to see the truth and anyone who merely stops at the word ‘religion’ without knowing what it is cannot make sensible comment. So they must be asked..did you read it? Well Read it before you talk. It is a dangerous piece of work with a lot added by warlords and not an angel called Jibral or Allah. Read it and see. Don’t read a book about it, read IT.
Asally says
They have a lot to smile about these days in America. They are the one group with special privileges to free speech, they cannot be opposed if they want to have special rights to proselytize in our public schools. They are exempted from common-sense rules having to do with attire at airports and other secure areas. They are ensconced in the State Department and the Pentagon. There is really no limit. they are allowed special privileges (such as butchering and roasting goats in the livingrooms of their government-subsidized apartments). They get free driver’s training and when they commit jihad and it can’t be kept quiet, it is described without reference to their Islamic connections.
I attended a discussion by someone who was educating the public on the dangers of Islam and the ways in which they have insinuated themselves into and replaced our own culture. His detractors (including Catholic priests, Muslim Student Association members, CAIR, the Imam from the local Islamic Center, assorted nuns and some evangelical and mainline Protestants, college professors – all the usual suspects) were carrying placards up and down the streets, blocking the entrance in an effort to intimidate the public from hearing this man. During the presentation he called for anyone in the audience who was Muslim to come forward and dispute his facts. No one in the audience said he was a Muslim; no one took exception to any of this man’s facts.
Of course the local newspaper reported this as “hate speech”. The city council considered a resolution to punish or discourage “hate speech” (after all we are “welcoming” of everyone!). The venue was criticized for allowing him to speak there. Some on the council suggested staging some kind of “event” which would make parking or access unavailable for those who wanted to go to such an even tin the future – even to the extent of doing “street work” in the area. All this was by supposed Americans!
The local Muslims staged one of their “open houses” – in a Lutheran church across the street from their mosque/Islamic Center. Presumably they didn’t want to dirty up their own place with Christians, Jews, pagans or other infidels. At this event they did the usual – exotic foods, “explanations” of Islam, outreach, etc., ad nauseum. This was copiously covered as a “cultural” event by these gracious Muslims in the local news media.
I attended another event – where we were supposed to learn about and welcome “New Americans”. In addition to the Somali community and various other, less threatening “New Americans” from places like the Asia and Liberia, etc., various do-good representatives from Social Services, Lutheran Social Services, etc., the local Imam was present, reading his statement from a prepared script. When questions were allowed I asked this Imam why, since he was protesting the anti-Islam speaker’s right to speak, he didn’t come inside and question the speaker, call him out, as it were, if he were wrong. He mumbled something about knowing in advance what the man would say, blah, blah, blah. Obviously out of his comfort zone without his script.
These “hospitality” evenings are an old ploy. Anyone could do this. It is how cults grow. You “welcome” the curious, the lonely, anyone who will come in for a biscuit. It is pathetic. Then they feel obligated to be polite in return, not insult their “hosts”. Why spoil such a good time? Why be the “ugly American” who questions? Nobody likes one of those. So then it appears ungrateful if you have ever taken their food if you criticize them. You are theirs for life – for a bowl of couscous.
This is a cult. It is a growing cult of darkness and oppression. It seeks to dominate the world. America makes it difficult – we technically have the right of free speech (if we are not to intimidated to exercise it), we also have the right to bear our own arms (unless we give this up as well). Most nations are pushovers. Our greatest enemy here is not Islam – it is ourselves, our self-efacing willingness to give way, to be polite, to “welcome” the “newcomers” – even if they are here to destroy us and our society and to STEAL OUR CHILDREN’S FUTURE FREEDOM. This is what we are offering up for their “hospitality” – our children’s future and the freedom that was passed down to us through centuries of the spilled blood of our heroes. For a bowl of couscous, some rotten halal goat’s mean, rijstaffel. A plate of pottage for our birthright. And our kids’.
If you go to one of these cult recruitment nights, call them out. If you aren’t prepared to go there and ask the piercing questions or stand up for your own values, just don’t go. I worked once in an earlier life as a telemarketer. My employer invited people to dinners at a restaurant and once there he sold them whatever – fire alarms or kitchen knives. You didn’t get out of there without buying what he was selling. One of his other employers told me “If you don’t want to buy, don’t eat the dinner Just don’t eat his dinner!” If you don’t want to trade your American freedom and values for a plate of exotic Muslim hors d’ouvres, don’t even go. And tell your nice, friendly neighbors the same thing.
This is an excellent article, although too long to real all of for most of us (just like my comment) because it gives you an advance warning. You are being lulled into complaceny, you are being lured into compliance with their program – which is one of world domination and severe oppression. It is happening in our schools, in our press, in our workplaces and at “social” events such as this.
Maybe instead Americans should go to their synagogue, their Catholic or Protestant churches – and when you are there and hear this shilling for Islam, shut it down. Here is another idea. if you go, after you have had your fill of halal, go home and google Pam Geller. You will need this to cleanse your mind!
Alain Lenferna de la Motte says
Asally, you have hit the nail on the head, except for Hugh Fitzgerald’s article being “too long”. Part of the problem today is that we refuse to be literate. Children should be encouraged to read quality material from a young age and encouraged to spend less time on frivolous pursuits such as unlimited surfing of the internet without parental guidance and control. Or put another way, perhaps today’s parents should spend more of their time educating their children rather pursuing their too often frivolous after work activities.
Amnon says
I agree with you entirely.
The 3 r’s should be:
Read. Research. Remember.
Bob says
The “Rubik’s Cube” of convoluted explanations, intended to adhere to one of the tenants of “the book”; …”deception”..
After 1400 years of this, one would think that people would begin to get it..
I guess when you are 30 to 40 years of age, and never opened up a world history book, this would be the result..
A movie was created many years ago, entitled, “The Sting”.. Everybody should watch this once. The name for such people are “grifters” (co artists)..
b.a. freeman says
Bob, go take a look at a history book; U’ll find that there is very little about the *why* of muslim conquests, and lots about the “when” and “by whom.” keep in mind that americans and canadians have been educated by leftists for decades; for eurabians, it has gone on for most of the 20th century. in all cases, it continues today. i suspect that spanish- and portuguese-speaking nations are as much in the dark as we are, given the adverse reaction of voters to the 11-m train bombings in spain on 2004-03-11, although i’m not positive. in other words, we’re ignorant because we haven’t been educated. furthermore, i have suspected for some time now that the decision to not educate we of the stupid stinking masses was a deliberate decision – no proof, just my interpretation.
mortimer says
“President Obama said (Islamic wailing) was one of the sweetest sounds in the world.”
Obama did NOT say that the sweetest sound was a Christian hymn, the hallelujah chorus or Christmas carols sung by Aretha Franklin.
jihad3tracker says
HELLO AGAIN SIR !
Since you mentioned our former Muslim-In-Chief, I will alert JW readers here to an often-recommended, masterful video by “superlatively brilliant” (Robert Spencer’s words) Dr. David Wood, titled “THREE STAGES OF JIHAD”.
It is longish, but has several hilarious guest appearances by everyone’s favorite taqiyya slinger — BHO. As usual, David packs in plenty of history, context, and citations from Islam’s sacred literature. By the way, in the final 2 minutes, he talks about a 4th Stage — which most Westernized Muslims, especially American, are trapped in.
mgoldberg says
Yes indeed. And in fact if he were to be reminded of ‘sounds’ it should be remembered that no christian sounds, nor prayers, no jewish sounds nor prayers can be uttered on the top of the temple mount, occupied by the muslim Al-Aqsa, as they are considered unclean, dirty, unworthy to be uttered. Nor are they to be uttered in Mecca, nor in Medina,, and no non muslim may walk into Mecca for such a purpose.
Now what a lovely sound that is Mr ex president Oblummer, what a lovely sound that isn’t, that echoes out of those chilling cauldrons of bigotry and tyranny known as Islam. And if that seems a harsh reminder to him perhaps he can remember that there are a innumerable other places where the sounds of christian, or jewish, or buddhist or hindu sounds are not allowed to be heard lest they soil the permafrost of the muslim psyche that borderland where all others are the infidels.
Buraq says
Open Mosque, closed minds! Clowns!
infidel says
OPEN TAQIYYA DAY would be more appropriate.. Shameless creatures . cheating people all the time..
Savvy Kafir says
Or maybe Tasty Taqiyya Day.
Save Europe says
Best post of the day. Completely true ?
Benedict says
One is tempted to quote the Latin phrase:
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur: “The world wants to be deceived, so let it be deceived.” – and leave gullible “Open Mosque” visitors to their fate. But the problem is that the progress of Islam in any country will affect the whole fabric of society to the detriment of all. –
A question that should also be asked at an “Open Mosque” event is, “How did Islam spread?” A religion that from the beginning spread through violent conquest has forfeited a place in a civilized society. Muslims should persistently be confronted with the violent history of Islam that provoked the Crusades and not the other way around.
gravenimage says
+1
Steven RSA says
What’s really needed is an international “Leave Islam Day”.
gravenimage says
Spot on, Steven.
HugoHackenbush says
“Dissembling obfuscation day” would be a more accurate label.
ChrisLA says
I attended an “open mosque” event a few years ago where they were offering free Qurans to the non-Muslim guests. So I asked the host, “How far into the Quran would have to read before it denounced Christians and Jews?” He was baffled and said he wasn’t qualified to answer. I was referred to another Muslim who was assisting with the open house, clearly from another mosque. He denied that the Quran denounced Christians or Jews anywhere. Since there was a library nearby in the mosque, I invited him to direct me to their copy of Tafsir Ibn Kathir. By now there was a group of interested Muslims and non-Muslims surrounding us. As I began to read the commentary on Surah 1:7 from their book, the assisting spokesperson insisted that I discuss this with him “off-line” and gave me his card. I contacted him later, but he never responded.
At other “interfaith meetings” I have attended, questions had to be written down, and then they were carefully screened for controversial content. None of my questions was ever asked in front of the audience. Clever guys — these friendly Muslims.
b.a. freeman says
ChrisLA, i don’t like lying, but we’re in a war, so deceiving the enemy is acceptable; after all, if it’s good enough for the muzzies in their unprovoked war on us, it’s good enough for me. in any case, the next time U get a chance and they make U submit questions ahead of time, try submitting something innocuous, but ask a *real* question when they call on U. of course, after they call on U, they’ll change their behavior yet again and just *read* the questions, but we need every chance we can get to expose these monsters. i think it would be worth it, and the next time *i* get a chance, i’m going to do just that.
gravenimage says
Thanks, Chris. I’m not surprised.
WPM says
It is a lot like Hitler made Germany proud or now the train in Italy run on time ,shallow unanswered questions on what are the real goals of this supremacist ideology was all about ? Islam the greatest lie every told ,.
Diane Harvey says
“’Prayer is a private dialogue between you and Allah,’ Idress said”
That’s why we do it in an annoying fashion, using loudspeakers, in the public streets, or in front of Christian cathedrals. Because it’s oh-so private.
We’re catching on.
gravenimage says
Yes–I caught that, too. There is really nothing of the individual in Islam–it is all about the collective–collective obedience and collective violence.
Wellington says
What I find extra disgusting is that Muslims can come to free Western nations, like America, and openly practice their faith, preach their faith to others, seek converts, and build their houses of worship. Try this in any Muslim-majority nation, be your faith Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, et al.
Muslims, you are hypocrites as well as parasites. I am repulsed by your religion for many, many reasons. I just listed one such reason above.
HugoHackenbush says
They are not hypocrites for not allowing others to practice their religion, they are simply doing what Islam requires. After all, they certainly cannot allow “corruption in the land”.
Wellington says
Respectfully disagree, HugoHackenbush. Here’s why: Islam itself is steeped in hypocrisy, repression and double standards and thus those who adhere to this warped creed cannot claim exculpation because all they were doing were “following orders.” Think the Nuremberg trials for backup on this point.
Following a malevolent ideology leaves one with no excuses. None. Allow for excuses in this regard and at least some evil will get a pass. But no evil should ever get a pass.
I rest my case. Should you like to respond by way of refutation or for any other reason, please do so, as is your right. But you had better argue well to the extent you disagree with me here because, right up front I want you to know, I think you have no real argument at all.
HugoHackenbush says
Totally agree with you. My comment was intended as derisive (of Islam). Since “corruption in the land” can mean anything they want it to mean including any form of discussion of one’s religion in public.
gravenimage says
Wellington, one of the very few times I mildly disagree with you. Like Hugo, I consider Islam more supremacist than hypocritical.
Sure, Muslims will appear to be hypocritocal in everything being a one way street with Islam, but since they do not adhere to values of equality, give-and-take, and reason, they are not actually being hypocritcal.
Pious Muslims will use our values against us–but the endgame is *always* the imposition of Islam.
And–as you know–I certainly don’t give Muslims a pass for following the vicious diktats of their creed. No matter how brainwashed they may be, they are still human beings, and can choose to do otherwise if they are decent and brave.
Wellington says
Thanks for your reply, gravenimage. Well, I see your point but perhaps you will at least agree with me when I aver that Muslims are parasites. Bad enough, no, hypocrisy aside?
You know, I find myself disgusted by Islam in so many ways that at times I tend to lose count of all the ways, so many of them are there. Like you, I detest Mo’s creed with all my heart.
HugoHackenbush says
One other thought: the Islamic sadists, unlike the Nazi sadists, can claim not merely divine sanction for what they do but also claim it’s mandated. Forget the chapter/verse but one verse in the Koran (paraphrasing) states: “Fighting is enjoined for you even though you may hate it. You may hate a thing and it is good for you and you may like a thing and it is bad for you; and Allah knows and you know not”.
Wellington says
Gravenimage: I thought some more about what you said, and yes while you definitely have an arguable point, no question about it, somehow I couldn’t get rid of the “hypocrisy notion.” And so I came up with this: Muslims are hypocrites not because of Islam which, as you noted, is supremacist and makes no bones about it being so and thus itself is not hypocritical, but rather Muslims are hypocrites as human beings.
Adhering to any belief system that demands so much and gives so little in return, which treats non-believes with the contempt that Islam does, is to be a hypocrite in life. Here is where I detect the hypocrisy of the Muslim and which argues are the more why the only truly sensible and decent thing to do if one is a Muslim and wants to be a complete human being is to leave Islam entirely, dangerous as that often is.
Wellington says
That’s “non-believers” and not “non-believes.”
gravenimage says
Agreed, Wellington. Thanks for your reply. And in any case, people of good will can disagree on some points. 🙂
Keys says
Millions across the planet agree, and millions more will agree as soon as they are “educated” by Islamophobes and by Islam itself. One need not have a 3 digit IQ to get it.
Rarely says
Half the world has 2 digit IQs…by definition. So you’re saying there’s hope?
tedh754 says
Are the Throat Cutting classes open to the public?
Hugh Fitzgerald says
II’ll repeat what I wrote at the end of the piece above.
Please visit, if you can, any of these events — the Open Mosque Day, the Islam Awareness Week, the Ask-A-Muslim Anything booths. Even one or two visitors can do a lot. (the more the better, so you don’t appear to be some lonely easily dismissible crank . Come with your questions (and answers) prepared. You know what you need to ask, about Taqiyyya, Zakat and Salat, the meaning of “Jihad,” the dozen or so verses you need to have at the ready to quote (9:5, 9:29, 3:151, 8:12, 8:60, 3:110, 98:6, 4:34, 5:51 and so on), the hadith found in Bukhari (above all, “war is deceit” and “I have been made victorious through terror”), and piquant details of the life of Muhammad, the Perfect Man and Model of Conduct, such as his consummation of his marriage to Aisha when she was nine, his pleasure at hearing of the murders of Asma bint Marwan, Abu ‘Afak, Ka’b bin al-Ashraf, his taking part in the killing of the prisoners of the Banu Qurayza).
Some of these are on-campus events; for these, students may be the only visitors allowed. Such students can be located, and even provided with the questions they should ask, with the prepared replies to the Muslim presenters, and the Qur’anic quotes, all ready on notecards.
There is a vast effort being put into these events by Muslims. There ought to be some people on the other side, showing up to undermine, what is being fed to the innocent Infidels.
HugoHackenbush says
I have called into radio shows in which an Imam was engaging in fluff and obfuscation. The truth comes out (via silence, dismissal or a verifiable lie) when posed with the following 4 simple yes/no questions:
1. Are there both peaceful and violent passages in the Koran?
2. Did not the violent passages mostly come after the peaceful passages?
3. Is there not in Islam a principal of “abrogation” whereby later revelations supersede earlier ones?
4. Can one erase all prior sins and gain admission to paradise by killing and/or being killed for Allah?
By using these questions one does not need to know any chapter or verse. The “expert” will undermine himself. If an overt lie is given then the admonition to the audience to “just look it up for yourself” will speak volumes. This method also avoids accusations of being inflammatory or derogatory.
HugoHackenbush says
Sometimes one question will do: “Given that there are both peaceful and violent admonitions in the Koran and both peaceful and violent examples to be found in the life of Muhammad, please explain why your interpretation of all of this, to live peacefully, is correct and the conclusion of those in ISIS, to wage war, is incorrect”.
VRWC member77 says
I agree those are four very good questions.
Unfortunately there is a high probability the 1st one will elicit the “there are violent passages in the Bible” response. The 3rd question may elicit outright denial even though you can be specific in your explanation. The muslim may try and obfuscate the whole concept of abrogation in an attempt to confuse the unknowing listener.
I like Dr. Bill Warner’s approach of focusing on muhammud because there is no way to obfuscate the hadith passages of his immoral and monstrous behavior.
HugoHackenbush says
The attempt at misdirection (bringing up the bible) will be obvious to others observing the interaction. If abrogation is denied one can then ask for an explanation as to why both the Koran and Hadith mention verses being replaced by others. Observers can be advised to just “look it up for yourself” rather than believe the Imam or you.
Julea Bacall says
I’ve had that happen but those acts are not duplicated TODAY and there is no where in any bible, Torah etc that says Jews must subjugate of kill all Hindu or Zorothusian, Sufi, Christian, Buddhists or Pagans so prevalent at their early time. Only maybe a tribe which had attacked them or stole whatever. There is no call for genocide of other beliefs.. And ancient punishments are banned.
gravenimage says
Hugh, I had a very interesting discussion with a couple of thugs at a “Why Islam” table when I was first learning about Islam. At first they laid the Taqiyya and whitewash on pretty thick, but then–to my surprise, when I indicated that I knew at least something about Islam–admitted that disobedient wives could be beaten and that they considered Christians “polytheists” who were all going to be murdered by “Jesus” in the last days.
HugoHackenbush says
I will only engage a “true believer” when an interested but uncertain third party is witness to the interaction. This is true both for Islam and Marxism (and its offshoots). I also avoid any tit-for-tat quotefest of Koranic verses or any type of quote from any Islamic source as even if one has fully memorized everything, someone watching the interaction will be left with the impression that it’s 6 of one and half-a-dozen of the other. I find the best results (in terms of convincing an uncertain observer) have been obtained via Socratic argument (aka the type of questions as shown above). Let them undermine themselves.
VRWC member77 says
I love when these lying supremacist muslim thugs bring up idiot statements like:
“I don’t need to remind anyone in Oklahoma about Timothy McVeigh.”
Why should this supremacist scum do (remind) so as much? Hey scumbag:
– Timothy McVeigh was not a practicing Christian.
– Timothy McVeigh did not commit his act of terror in the name of Christianity.
– Nearly every individual of Christian faith widely and rightfully condemned McVeigh for his actions.
– AND 99.99% of America felt justice was served when Timothy McVeigh was executed for his actions.
gravenimage says
Spot on, VRWC member77.
somehistory says
While speaking with some moslims back in the last century, they offered me a very expensive candy…one I couldn’t afford at that time, and then proceeded to tell me all about how they worship according to the Bible…because their ‘book has Noah, and Abraham, and Jesus in it.’
I believed at the time that they were just misguided souls.
Tjhawk says
If you go to a dawa event, you might need to get a few likeminded friends, go separately, and don’t sit together. If the orchestrators sense that you know a little something, you will be frozen out and not allowed to speak again. Get together and strategize before you go.
Then try to use verbal jujitsu, and very nicely phrase your questions so they have to either say something arrogant and supremacist or say something they don’t really want to say. These are some things that you can use at public events or just smaller conversations:
What drew (draws) you to islam? Butter them up
Could you tell me about the perfection of islam and the perfection of the koran?
How clear is the message of islam and the koran? Could anyone ever misinterpret a perfectly clear message?
What is mohammeds role in islam? What is the relationship muslims have with mohammed?
How perfect is mohammed? How perfect is the life of mohammed?
Are mohammed and his actions the perfect exemplars to guide human behavior?
Are mohammed and his actions universal (in place and time) exemplars for people to use?
Could you relate the historical happenings of mohammeds career in Mecca, and then Medina? Could you explain how this relates to the sequence and nature of the “Meccan” and “Medinan” verses in the koran?
Could you explain the concept of abrogation in the koran?
Why did mohammed leave Mecca, and about how many followers did he have when he left?
How did mohammed support himself when he escaped persecution in Mecca? (They’ll love it that you present mohammed as a victim, but they’ll squirm trying to explain away his thievery)
Could you tell us about the “ummah” and the “deen”?
How perfect is the deen? How universal is the deen?
Is there any way of living that could possibly improve upon the deen?
What is sharia? How perfect is sharia? Is sharia universal? Is sharia clear and understandable?
Can sharia be treated like a buffet(choose and reject), or must it be taken in its entirety? If sharia is perfect and universal, how can parts be rejected? Apostasy? Blasphemy?
What is koran ch. 8, Al-Anfal about? (The Booty)
Could you discuss (from islamic sources) the circumstances of the following women before they encountered mohammed and their circumstances after encountering mohammed?
Saffiyah, Rayhana, Juwayriyya, Zainab, Mary the Copt, and of course little Aisha. (Learn these stories)
What does “women whom your right hand possesses” mean in islamic doctrine?
Could you explain 5:32 (the entire verse). Could you explain 5:33 (the entire verse)?
Remember, NEVER LOSE YOUR COOL. Always be as nice as they are.
Prepare to be lied to or have obfuscation thrown up. Don’t get into a tit for tat verse war. Just say something like: Oh? When I read the koran and Hadith I came to a completely different conclusion. Would you like to hear what I think? If they refuse, gracefully exit the conversation and silently claim a win.
gravenimage says
Good comment.
Tjhawk says
Thanks. I hope some of these ideas can be used to make some unctuous, mendacious, dawa meister’s life miserable.
If you can make some a$$hole lose his head while you keep yours, if you can take being lied to, yet not deal in lies, or take being hated, but not give way to hate, you will be a man my son. Paraphrased from Kipling
All you women warriors out there, I love you too!! It’s just that man and son fit the poem so well.
Peter A says
“What drew (draws) you to islam? Butter them up”
99.99% of the time the honest answer (assuming you could ever get an honest answer from a muslim) would be ‘I was indoctrinated/brainwashed by my parents as soon as I was able to talk’.
Another question that could be asked at one of these ‘open days’ is ‘I am thinking about converting to islam but am aware that as apostasy is considered a serious crime in islam with some muslims saying apostasy should be punished with death, if I do become a muslim but at some time in the future decide to leave, would I be punished and murdered?’
And then ask ‘do you think apostates deserve death?’
Tjhawk says
Good question
Tjhawk says
Yes, that seems like a good approach.
Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY) says
These events sound like they could be fun, but I fear that they are as tightly scripted and dialogue-hostile as an “investment opportunity” seminar.
“Prayer is a private dialogue between you and Allah,” Idress said.
This would prompt me to interrupt, “Imam Idress, that’s the first I’ve ever heard that prayer is a ‘dialogue’ — that is, two-way communication between you and Allah. You must have prayed this morning. In your morning prayer, what did Allah say to you in your two-way conversation? And did he speak to you in the voice of a man, of a woman, or of a jinn? And in what language?”
Other fun topics…
“Imam, I understand that Islam preaches the existence of mischievous creatures called jinns, a kind of Islamic leprechaun. Do Islamic Boy Scouts in Oklahoma ever go on jinn-hunts, like infidels go on snipe-hunts? Is that why there are so few jinns in Oklahoma anymore?”
“You fun-loving Muslims must have dozens of jokes that begin, ‘Buddah, Jesus, and Mohammed walk into this bar …’. What’s your favorite joke of this kind?”
“What’s the difference between a Muslim and a Moslem?”
“Have you seen that My Pillow guy on TV? He always wears around his neck an image of the Islamic instrument of torture referred to in the Quran, chapter 5, verse 33. Do you think this Mike Lindell, the inventor of My Pillow, is a sincere Muslim, or is he making fun of Muslims?”
“Imam, have you read the entire Quran? In the course of reading it, did you come across any passage that you disagreed with? Like maybe the anti-infidel verses like Quran 9:5?”
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
muslim prayers always scares the satan. That is why mithraist christians and evil are always sad to see muslims praying. so,the gathering inviting these satan(hol spirit possessed people is good idea to cast out the satan so that they could See the light of Islam.
gravenimage says
What do Muslims “prayers” consist of? Mostly hatred for Jews and Christians, along with threats that their god is greater than their victims. *Ugh*.
Keys says
Right, gi, muslim prayers, among other things, are curses for kafirs.
Just like ibrahim itace curses Christians and the Holy Spirit in many of his posts. His brain is wired to do so.
He needs a metanoia.
gravenimage says
True, Keys.
gravenimage says
Hugh Fitzgerald: In Stillwater, Oklahoma, What You Can Learn On Open Mosque Day
……………………..
Yes–all either disturbing or blatant Taqiyya.
These are the questions Infidels *should* ask on these days–but seldom know enough to do so.
Rarely says
It’s all so much easier said than done. It is too easy for them to cut you off or avoid your question. Few will fall to your superior knowledge or debating style. Even fewer will engage in a debate. They’ve been there before and have the T-shirt.
I saw a well experienced and knowledgeable interviewer get demolished by a noted holocaust denier because the latter had had the debate and heard all the arguments many times before and knew how to counter them.
My point is that if you intend to take these guys on I suggest you follow, as closely as possible, the words of experience. Otherwise you just end up looking foolish.
Although I don’t always agree with him, I acknowledge that Robert Spencer has more insight and experience here than anyone else I know. Of course he has more knowledge as well and, unless you intend to become an Islamic scholar (isn’t that a contradiction of terms?) yourself follow his advice carefully.
BTW Thanks for the primer Robert.
gravenimage says
This article was by Hugh Fitzgerald, who is also extremely knowledgeable about Islam.
Save Europe says
The most horrific thing I have seen in the last 2 years was, after boarding a Cross Channel ferry from Calais to Dover, a group of around 12-15 Muslim men prostrating themselves on an outdoor deck. I felt it was an utterly political show.
nicu says
Muslims are afraid to enter a Church – or are they not allowed .
Open Mosque days in Germany are on our National day ! — Lefties love it and are so ” enlightened ” after it .
IDIOTS !
Peter A says
“Others may find that as the worshippers touch their foreheads to the ground in near-unison, then straighten up, and then again prostrate themselves, repeating this many times”
Islam is a stain on humanity. It and all religion is superstitious nonsense, it preys on the weak-minded, the gullible and fools. It’s all about control, with islam it’s about food you are not allowed to eat and liquid you are not allowed to drink. If there is an allah/god would it not have easier for him to NOT create pigs and NOT create the ingredients used to make alcohol? If dogs are considered ‘unclean’ then what was the point of creating them?! And what was the point of giving females a clitoris and males a foreskin if they need to be cut off, if allah had half a brain he would have created mankind but not added these ‘surplus’ pieces of skin.
terry says
Timothy McVeigh had connections to radical islam…
TheBuffster says
I wonder whether another tactic would work – one that would require a challenger to have to speak up only once but, perhaps, be just as effective?
For example, if one could honestly say something like “I’ve been studying Islam for X number of years. I have read the Koran, the sahih Bukhari – that is the reliable or authentic – ahadith, and the Life of Muhammad by Ishaq, as well as many other writings by well-known and respected Islamic authorities, and I have come away from this research with the view that my own liberty is profoundly threatened by the content of these books, if taken seriously to the letter, by the Muslim community.
If it is so easy for a serious inquiring non-believer to get that message from the primary sources, it is certainly no surprise that Muslims could – allegedly – “misinterpret” in the exact same way that I have, and become the threat that worries me. Having done so much homework myself, I think that if there is another, more friendly, way to understand these books it must be a very convoluted one.
I urge all the guests here today to read these books for themselves, and not rely on public relations activities to settle their questions for them.
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A person wouldn’t have to have done all the reading in the example, but mention the reading and the time taken in study that *has* been done in order to give the listeners the idea that just listening to Muslims engaged in PR is not enough to gain real knowledge of the religion. The only way is to go to the primary sources. Then you will see where today’s jihadists and sharia colonisers are getting their motivations for conquest.