“Hate speech” is not an objectively identifiable entity. Notice that Rocky Gerung didn’t tell anyone that any person or even any idea should be hated. He just expressed an opinion that is unpopular with Indonesian authorities. Hate speech laws, as I have often pointed out, are tools of the powerful that they use to silence the powerless. This incident is an excellent illustration of that fact.
“Lecturer faces hate speech charges for calling holy books ‘fiction,'” Jakarta Post, April 12, 2018 (thanks to The Religion of Peace):
A lecturer at the University of Indonesia’s School of Philosophy has been reported to the police for alleged hate speech after stating on a TV show on Tuesday that holy books are “fiction”.
The report was made to the Jakarta Police by Cyber Indonesia chairman Permadi Arya, also known as Abu Janda, on Wednesday.
While appearing on the Indonesia Lawyers Club talk show on TVOne, the philosophy lecturer, Rocky Gerung, argued about the importance of fiction or literature. He said the word fiksi (fiction), particularly in political parlance, is now considered as pejorative in Indonesia, while it is in fact an important tool for stimulating the imagination.
“If I use the notion that ‘fiction activates the imagination, then holy books are [works of] fiction because they are not yet conclusive […] The function of fiction is to activate the imagination, to encourage us to be more imaginative. And now that word is being slain by politicians,” he said….
“According to the Indonesian dictionary, holy books refer to the Quran, the Gospels and others. So he cannot make the excuse that he did not specifically say what religion he was referring to. The dictionary definition is clear,” Permadi said as quoted by kompas.com….
Permadi said Rocky had offended all religious believers, adding that the representatives of the major religions in the country— Islam, Protestantism, Catholicism, Hinduism and Buddhism—had supported his legal move.
Rocky could be charged with hate speech as stipulated under Article 28 of the nation’s draconian Electronic Information and Transaction Law, which carries a maximum punishment of six years’ imprisonment.
Z says
Jesus, was real!
Romy Jones says
Haha.
gravenimage says
Yes–but Chirstians do not threaten and imprison people who question Christianity.
J D S says
You got it right Graven……Christians are not out there beating Muslims over the head trying to convert or kill them.
The picture of of Jesus standing st the door knocking shows a door without a door latch ..the latch is on the inside…That said to show that Christians only ask not force and here in America we do not refuse Muslims opportunities to build mosques and worship openly (worship who or what..I have no clue) and are not killed for doing so..NOT SO FOR CHRISTIANS IN MUSLIM COUNTRIES but even in their host countries they are doing the same
SOMETHING MUST BE DONE AND SOON! but who is to do it?
Xero_G says
If you HATE something that someone says, that says more about YOU than them. In most cases, people should not be prosecuted for GIVING “hate speech”, but listeners who perceive “hate” speech in others need to re-evaluate why they are offended by the free opinion of others. (Can’t they argue the merits of an issue instead of trying to shut down debate)?
When someone says they hate “hate-speech,” is that reciprocal hate-speech?
jewdog says
Sounds like Indonesia is another member of the obey-don’t-think cult that Islam leaves in its wake.
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
Mr Spencer, this is exactly the job performed by Alghazali in his book :”Tahafutul falasafa (the incohérences of philosophers), drawing dichotomy between matters within human compréhension like physical sciences and matters outside human compréhension (metaphyics) which plato has started. The issue of revelations in religious books are matters which ordinary human intellect cannot reveal , they are left to spécial people called prophets to disclose for other ordinary people to learn. such revelations are called miracles (actions or statements that violate or beyond law of nature of cause and effect). so, they are not products of human imaginations as this idiot philosophy teacher asserts.It is human knowledge like physical sciences that is a product of human imagination ,because they are discovered through intellect from imaginations of physical or natural phenomenone to make observations of facts. The revelations serve as guide to human beings as to how to go about using their God endowed intellect to make useful observations for the betterment of human life. so, there is no fundamental Conflict between human knowledge and revelations. In fact, Muslims used human knowledge to analyse and understand divine revelations contained in the Quran and Hadith .Eg, subject areas like Nahw, balaghah, Fiqh, Usulul Fiqh, mantiq and other interpretation aids to understand the Quran and Hadith are purely based on the principles of philosophy, especially logic.
The philosophy teacher fails to understand where fiction is applied. you only do It in creative writing as art where you draw a picture of a real life through fictitious stories. Divine revelations are statements fact about truth, which ordinary human intellect could not reveal ,It requires special people called prophets to disclose.
esther says
I am in favor of the prosecution of the teacher who claimed that writings such as
the scriptural writings ——to wit the Ramayana and Koran are fictional It is a
good precedent for jailing Imams who claim that the “new testament” is “not true”
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
Esther, no imam is saying Gospel (Injeel) revealed to Jésus is not true. The contention is that “New testament “is a mixture of what was truely revealed to Jésus and pagan doctrines líke Godman and begotten son of God ,which negate basic doctrine of monotheism jesus was sent to teach
Jack Dawkins says
Go bite your idol muhammad’s penis!
b.a. freeman says
hello, ibrahim!
doesn’t “science” and the scientific method question allah, because he is in control of every second, and can do what he wants? are U OK with that? shouldn’t all scientists be tied to 4 camels and pulled apart? that would sure prove that allah was better and stronger than those stupid scientists, right?
gravenimage says
In fact, most Muslims reject science because a belief that there are any natural laws indicates that Allah cannot be as arbitrary as he wants.
Robert Spencer, in his book “Religion of Peace”, writes:
“And to be sure, to a pious Muslim of Aquinas’s day, such Christian ideas of an inviolable ordered universe was blasphemy, implying that “Allah’s hand was fettered.” But Christians did not consider it blasphemous in the least…”
TheBuffster says
Ibrahim, when a person claims to be delivering a message from God, the problem is that this alleged prophet is a person *claiming* to be delivering a message. Other people cannot objectively determine whether he’s telling the truth or not – he just asserts his claim and some people “feel” that he’s telling the truth and others don’t feel it and are skeptical.
I’ve read the Koran, and what there is of truth in it is truth that can be found by an ordinary, intelligent person intent on finding the truth. No special revelation required. The rest is either clearly fallacious or far from provable.
You may believe that it is in line with reason, but I cannot honestly agree with that belief. If I cannot see for myself that something is true, I cannot in good conscience believe it.
Lars Johansen says
Spoken from an asylum near you.
Carolyne says
Prophets are for profits.
gravenimage says
The brutish Ibrahim itace muhammed wrote:
so, they are not products of human imaginations as this idiot philosophy teacher asserts.
…………………………….
Ibrahim itace muhammed has already said that such “blasphemers” should be murdered. What a vicious thug.
More:
It is human knowledge like physical sciences that is a product of human imagination ,because they are discovered through intellect from imaginations of physical or natural phenomenone to make observations of facts.
…………………………….
No surprise here that Ibrahim itace muhammed is unable to grasp the difference between scientific discovery and what is imaginary.
More:
The revelations serve as guide to human beings as to how to go about using their God endowed intellect to make useful observations for the betterment of human life.
…………………………….
Well, *this* is grotesque, since this vile Mohammedan has said that such “betterment” involves pedophiles “marrying” small children, the murder of gays, apostates, and critics of Islamic savagery, the rape of Infidel women and their use as sex slaves, and the mass slaughter of anyone who does not submit to Islam. *Ugh*.
More:
Esther, no imam is saying Gospel (Injeel) revealed to Jésus is not true. The contention is that “New testament “is a mixture of what was truely revealed to Jésus and pagan doctrines líke Godman and begotten son of God ,which negate basic doctrine of monotheism jesus was sent to teach
…………………………….
This is what Muslims believe–that Jews and Christians “corrupted” the Torah and Gospel with such matters as a loving God and the Golden Rule, and that these texts were at one time as bloody as the Qur’an.
Never mind that there is no evidence for this ever having been the case. But then, he has proven on this thread that he does not understand the difference between imagination and fact.
b.a. freeman says
Permadi said Rocky had offended all religious believers, adding that the representatives of the major religions in the country— Islam, Protestantism, Catholicism, Hinduism and Buddhism—had supported his legal move.
—
they “supported” it because a pious muslim showed up at the door of the respective supporters with weapons and a mob *demanding* support. it’s still extortion, which is why they said anything in agreement with the pious islamic criminals.
gravenimage says
Yep.
Lydia Church says
The quran is fiction, false, and evil.
The Bible is true (nonfiction).
Like we see, there is no freedom of speech under islamic controlled places.
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
Lydia, that is your imaginations inspired by the Satan christians Call holy spirit. Quran is not against freedom to use intellect for the betterment of human life. It is against freedom to lie and insult, which are harmful to human life.
WPM says
So you say the Holy Spirit is Satan ,not hate speech under your religion Islam, we Christians say he gives us strength to do good and lead moral lives. You sprout this every time you post this on this website protected by Americas free speech . My being able to say the Koran is a war manual that instructs it followers in bad violent behavior and has lead to nothing to the advance of science ,or toward peace among any of its followers is also protected by America free speech. The trouble is in Islamic control countries you are free and expected to slander the bible ,if you do that to the Koran in Islamic controlled countries you face a death sentence. Being offended is not a threat to human life, feel free to being offended .Christians are offended by many things it does not cause us to react violently ,our religion does not command us to kill those who offend or blaspheme our religion Islam does.
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
wpm, holy spirit is exactly the Satan the cursed one. There is no such spirit representing voice or breath of God known as holy spirit. It is mithraist pagan idea ,which is sacreligious and blasphemous.
WPM says
You can call me a blasphemer all day it does not give you the right to censor me, have me lose my job ,or chop my head off in America .Being offended does not give you super powers ,or special rights and privileges over other people of other faiths or justify violence .I pray to the Holy Spirit ,you pound your head into the ground catwalling to your moon god 5 times a day if that’s all you did I would careless in what you believe. The world is full offence of one kind or another ,to invent offense over ever symbol , every music note ,paintings , dogs, church bells, singing , jokes , is a sad grey world a self imposed hell you are welcome to occupy if you wish just do include me or any of my love ones in it.
gravenimage says
Under Shari’ah, that is *exactly* what Muslims have the “right” to do to us.
kouldb says
What an inspirational religion Islam is. Not.
gravenimage says
Permadi said Rocky had offended all religious believers, adding that the representatives of the major religions in the country— Islam, Protestantism, Catholicism, Hinduism and Buddhism—had supported his legal move.
…………………..
Uh…right. Somehow I doubt that it was Christians, Hindus, or Buddhists instigating this…
This poor man faces up to six years in prison. And Indonesia is supposed to be a “moderate” Muslim country…