“No to freezing a single letter from the Koran, and those calling for this can go to hell.”
Peaceful guy!
Shuman also said: “What those who issued this call think are verses calling for their killing are in reality verses of peace,” claiming that the Qur’an only calls for fighting in self-defense. He seems to have forgotten about passages such as 8:39, which calls upon Muslims to fight until “religion is all for Allah,” and 9:29, which calls upon Muslims to fight and subjugate the “People of the Book,” solely because they are not Muslims.
Nor does Shuman explain why so very many Muslims seem to misunderstand these verses calling for killing as…verses calling for killing, such that there have been over 32,000 jihad attacks around the world since 9/11.
“Al-Azhar responds to French calls for ‘freezing’ Koranic verses,” translated from “الأزهر يرد على مطالبات فرنسية بـ’تجميد’ آيات قرآنية ,” Erem News, May 4, 2018:
Al-Azhar denounced French calls for the “freezing” of verses in the Koran, and claims that they were urging the killing of non-Muslims.
Earlier, Le Parisien published a controversial petition calling for the removal of allegedly anti-Jewish verses from the Koran, signed by former French President Nicolas Sarkozy and 300 political figures from the left and the right, as well as Arabs and Muslims.
Egyptian media quoted Dr. Abbas Shuman, deputy of Al-Azhar, as saying on Thursday that “the demand of 300 French personalities to freeze verses in the Koran, claiming that it urges the killing of non-Muslims, is unjustified and unacceptable…
Shuman condemned the claims, saying: “No to freezing a single letter from the Koran, and those calling for this can go to hell.”
Al-Azhar’s deputy pointed out that the existence of such calls indicates “their ignorance, at best.”
“We do not have verses ordering the killing of anyone except those calling for the killing of people who commit a crime such as deliberately killing others, or taking up arms to fight us, and we are not responsible for the lack of understanding of others of the meanings of the verses, and who understand them without apparent reference to the interpretations of scholars.”
He added: “What those who issued this call think are verses calling for their killing are in reality verses of peace. The verses of fighting are all in the context of a response to aggression if it is declared against us… This principle is not disputed even among those who demand a freeze on these verses. They recognize the right of self-defense, defense of the the homeland, and resistance to other forms of aggression. ”
He said: “Let them understand that these books of Allah are true, but if they rely on their misunderstanding, they should go with their understanding and ask those in hell.”…
jihad3tracker says
“NO MORE OF ISLAM’S VIOLENCE” —- IN FRANCE & THE SUBSEQUENT OUTRAGE OF MUSLIM CLERICS — is an extremely important development in a European pushback against rapidly escalating public jihad.
Fortunately, imams are too stupid to understand that every time they go ballistic, that just proves Islam is, at its core, a pathology determined to conquer society and culture in all civilized nations invaded by Muhammad & Allah.
mortimer says
But look on the bright side: FRENCH INTELLECTUALS HAVE RECOGNIZED THAT ISLAM IS VIOLENT.
It will now become ‘COOL’ to be a COUNTERJIHADIST.
jihad3tracker says
Yes, Mortimer, French intellectuals have (apparently) recognized that Islam is violent.
Let us see where this epiphany about jihad goes — in several months from now.
Carol the 1st says
There seems to be a “boxing-in” effort lately. That could be a prelude. We have talked and tolerated until we’re blue in the face and thus untroubled opposition could be our next logical step if our “other” world continues to be blithely attacked and undermined by the bearded ones and their unbalanced tools and minions.
I’ve heard it said that such creatures cannot and will not be allowed to get their hands on Europe’s nuclear toys. Let’s hope that’s true.
mortimer says
JIHAD MEANS “AGGRESSION”.
THE KORAN REVERSES THE GOLDEN RULE to mean “DO IT UNTO OTHERS FIRST”.
The Koran’s 164 Jihad Verses: K 002:178-179, 190-191, 193-194, 216-218, 244; 003:121-126, 140-143, 146, 152-158, 165-167,169, 172-173, 195; 004:071-072, 074-077, 084, 089-091, 094-095,100-104; 005:033, 035, 082; 008:001, 005, 007, 009-010, 012, 015-017, 039-048,057-060, 065-075; 009:005, 012-014, 016, 019-020, 024-026, 029,036, 038-039, 041, 044, 052, 073, 081, 083,086, 088, 092, 111, 120, 122-123; 016:110; 022:039, 058, 078; 024:053, 055; 025:052; 029:006, 069; 033:015, 018, 020, 023, 025-027, 050; 042:039; 047:004, 020, 035; 048:015-024; 049:015; 059:002, 005-008, 014; 060:009; 061:004, 011, 013; 063:004; 064:014; 066:009; 073:020; 076:008.
jihad3tracker says
HELLO AGAIN SIR !
If you and I threw ropes around the 100 most prominent Leftist MSM “reporters” and then forcibly sat them down for an hour to hear the words in those verses, I would be serious shekels that their responses would be, in unison, ” BUT WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THE HISTORICAL CONTEXT ! ! ! “
mortimer says
J3T, disagree. They would say, ‘But the Crusades…’
Salome says
mortimer–and I would add ‘were not thorough enough’.
Richard says
Mortimer: Priceless!!! I’m copying it. Thank you!!
Robin says
It is good to see that long list but (a) mussies will start going on about “interpretation” (as Allah had a communication handicap….), and (b) many verses don’t make clear it is non-defensive. For that reason I have compiled the following arguably more unp-arguable list.
The Quran declares that it is a clear book (12:1); easy to understand (44:58); explained in full (6:114); conveyed clearly (10:15).
And nowhere does the Quran say “If you aren’t sure what a verse means, just ask an Imam or someone qualified to interpret it, who you can recognise by the official badge they wear etc.”. Any Imam or “scholar” who does claim to do that interpretation would necessarily be putting themselves in place of Allah’s Final Messenger and thus committing a haram sin.
There is nothing needing “interpretation” by some so-called “Professor of Islamic Studies”, just many verses that Muslims have to go to great lengths to imagine don’t really mean what they clearly do say.
Furthermore Muslims are not allowed to pick and choose which verses they accept. Rather they must accept all of them, as verses 2:85-6 make clear.
Muslims often claim that Quran 5:32 states the likes of “If anyone killed a person it would be as if he had killed all mankind, and if he saved a life it would be as if he had saved the life of all mankind”.
But in reality it says something quite different. It states that that was a command specifically only to Jews (the Children of Israel): “On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone killed a person – unless it be in retaliation for murder or for spreading mischief in the land – it would be as if he killed all mankind: and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all humanity.”
And nowhere in the thousands of other verses of Allah’s perfect Qur’an is there any clarification that that is also a command to Muslims. On the contrary, only numerous verses which indicate the opposite. Indeed hostility to disbelievers is the predominant theme in the Quran.
Numerous Qur’an verses make clear that Muslims should participate in Jihad fighting. And that that Jihad warfare is not just defensive, but involves capturing women and booty and slaves, and invading countries and communities which are not at the time attacking your own:
“It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he has made a great slaughter in the land.” [8:67]
“Married women are forbidden to you except the captives your right (sword) hand possesses.” [4:24]
“O Prophet! We have made lawful to you your wives … and those whom your right (sword) hand possesses of the captives of war whom Allah has assigned to you.” [33:50].
“It is not allowed you to take other women henceforth nor that you should change them for other wives even though their beauty pleased you, except for those whom your right hand possesses.” [33:52]
“Allah promises you will capture much booty.” [48:20]
“One-fifth of your spoils of war shall belong to Allah, the Apostle, the Apostle’s kinsfolk, the orphans, the destitute, and the traveler in need.” [8:41]
“And that which Allah gives as spoil unto His messenger from them, you urged not any horse or riding-camel for the sake thereof [i.e. you did no work to earn it], but Allah gives His messenger lordship over whom he will. Allah is able to do all things.”[59:6]
“The spoils of war taken from the town-dwellers and assigned by Allah to His apostle shall belong to Allah, to the Apostle and his kinsfolk, …..” [59:7]
Other verses make clear that people were reluctant to involve in fighting and that Mohammed/Allah was encouraging them to fight even when they did not see any need for it (and so it was not just fighting to defend themselves):
“Fighting is prescribed for you, and you dislike it. But it is possible that you dislike a thing which is good for you, and that you love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knows, and you know not.” [2:216]
“Have you not seen those unto whom it was said: Withhold your hands and establish worship and pay the poor-due? But when fighting was prescribed for them, behold! a party of them fear mankind even as they fear Allah or with greater fear, and they say: Our Lord! why have you ordained fighting for us? If only you would give us respite for a while. I Say: The comfort of this world is scant; the Hereafter will be better for he who wards off evil.” [4:77]
“You shall be called upon to fight a mighty nation, until they surrender (/accept Islam).” [48:16]
And more verses call Muslims to this warfare, not least:
“Whoever fights in the way of Allah, be he slain or victorious, on him we shall bestow a vast reward.” [4:74]
“Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. Those who follow him are merciful to one another, but ruthless to disbelievers.” [48:29]
“O you who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you and let them find harshness in you.” [9:123]
“Surely the vilest of animals in Allah’s sight are those who disbelieve.” [8:55]
“If anyone desires a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of the losers.” [3:85]
“Verily, those who disbelieve (in the religion of Islam, the Qur’an and Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him)) ….they are the worst of creatures.” [98:6]
“Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah!” [9:41]
Desperately strained “counter-narratives”
The Quilliam Foundation’s 132-page “Jihad Trending: A Comprehensive Analysis of Online Extremism and How to Counter it” contains no quotations from the Qur’an to counter those above here. The Henry Jackson Foundation’s 106-page “A Guide to Refuting Jihadism” quotes two verses. The word “peace” in “If they incline to peace…” [8:61], could just as well mean “surrender” instead, given all those other cited verses above, plus the fact that that Surah 8 is titled “The spoils of war”. And “There is no compulsion in religion” [2:256], (as translated by Pickthall, Shakir, Mohsin Khan, Arberry, Mawdudi, and Muhammad Sarwar) is simply a statement of the fact that some people do not renounce their beliefs even under threat of death, and thus not a command.
“No Compulsion in Religion: Islam and Freedom of Belief” by Dr Usama Hasan argues that that verse 2:256 means a command, viz “Let there be no compulsion in religion…”. However this overlooks that even if it did have that meaning, it would still be abrogated by later verses such as 9:29, 9:41, 9:123, 3:85. The same applies to his quotations of 10:99, 11:28, 2:62, 5:69, 22:17, and 2:190 insofar as they might be thought to argue against violent compulsion.
Robin says
PEE-ESS:
You should bear in mind that a list such as that could cause an outbreak of Sudden Jihad Syndrome. So best to combine with the proof that Allah was probably a high school dropout judging by the contents of http://www.IslamHoax.com
(Including flat earth and 1+0=1.25 among other highlights.)
mortimer says
FRENCH POLICE SHOULD STUDY HOW MUCH VIOLENT TEACHING GOES ON IN MOSQUES IN FRANCE:
A random survey of 100 representative mosques in the U.S. was conducted to measure the correlation between Sharia adherence and dogma calling for violence against non-believers. Of the 100 mosques surveyed, 51% had texts on site rated as severely advocating violence; 30% had texts rated as moderately advocating violence; and 19% had no violent texts at all. Mosques that presented as Sharia adherent were more likely to feature violence-positive texts on site than were their non-Sharia-adherent counterparts. In 84.5% of the mosques, the imam recommended studying violence-positive texts. The leadership at Sharia-adherent mosques was more likely to recommend that a worshipper study violence-positive texts than leadership at non-Sharia-adherent mosques. Fifty-eight percent of the mosques invited guest imams known to promote violent jihad. The leadership of mosques that featured violence-positive literature was more likely to invite guest imams who were known to promote violent jihad than was the leadership of mosques that did not feature violence-positive literature on mosque premises.
mortimer says
ISLAMIC SCHOLARS INTERPRET ‘STRIKE TERROR’ and ‘STRIKE THE NECKS’:
Koran 8:12 “Strike terror in the hearts of the unbelievers.”
“Allah will cast FEAR, disgrace and HUMILIATION over those who defied his command and denied Muhammad” — canonical scholar ibn Kathir.
-” smite the unbelievers at their necks” (i.e., behead the unbelievers — ibn Kathir
– ” and cut off their fingers (cut off their heads, limbs, hands and feet” — ibn Kathir.
“Terror means fear of Muhammad and his companions” — ibn Abbas.
Koran 8:12 Sahih International: [Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, “I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip.”
Koran 47:4: “Sahih International: So when you meet those who disbelieve [in battle], strike [their] necks until, when you have inflicted slaughter upon them, then secure their bonds, and either [confer] favor afterwards or ransom [them] until the war lays down its burdens. That [is the command]. And if Allah had willed, He could have taken vengeance upon them [Himself], but [He ordered armed struggle] to test some of you by means of others. And those who are killed in the cause of Allah – never will He waste their deeds.
gravenimage says
Al-Azhar on French call to reform Qur’an: “Go to hell!” Violent verses are “in reality verses of peace”
…………………..
What could be more ‘peaceful’ than calls to murder unbelievers?
mortimer says
What could be more ‘peaceful’ than asking your opponents to die? No disturbance in a graveyard.
Muslims have produced 120 MILLION PEACEFUL, DEAD KAFIRS.
Carol the 1st says
But can you prove it was their fault?
tim gallagher says
Exactly, gravenimage. The thing that strikes me is that the lies of Muslims are so outrageous. Calls for murderous violence are actually calls for peace. And Up is down and black is white and so on. It’s a whole upside down universe these lying scumbags try to create and hope some idiots will fall for. The thing that really annoys me is that there are still so many idiots who actually accept the outrageous lying garbage that the Muslims feed them. It defies belief that quite a lot of people fall for the lies.. Spot on, Mortimer, in your comment and your comment above about Islam’s reversing the golden rule by murdering non-Muslims first, the opposite of doing unto others as you’d have them do to you, which is a noble sentiment present in most other religions.
gravenimage says
So true, Tim–this is the “big lie”.
And Mortimer, I believe the estimated toll is actually 270 million.
Robin says
“Big lie” – boccols.
Stamping on ants would hardly be condemned as violence. And the Noble Quran informs us that the kaffirs are the vilest of creatures (hence even lower than ants). So there can be no violence in teminating them either. q.e.d
Julea Bacall says
Murder everyone who disagrees. ‘That’ll keep them quiet and peaceful’
Julea Bacall says
JUST HAD AN IDEA. How about we take a copy of the French letter and have our Congress, as many as we can, human rights groups even spLaw, CUNY, And then get it on line even and send it to UN and alAzhar too. Why can’t we do as they did plus, get the media, mainstreet to pay at least a modecum of insight. I would all i could from CA (but I am not at all tech savvy) Lets all somehow get together and at least TRY to do as France!
No Fear says
h t t p s://wikiislam.net/wiki/Muslim_Statistics_-_Scripture
No Fear says
The Quran contains more anti semitic material than Mein Kampf.
Julea Bacall says
That is why neither belong in this country as they are UnConstitutional, threatening, inciteful.
rubiconcrest says
At least the French tried now their eyes are open a bit more. The violent texts are really peaceful. Take that you French intellectuals and ditto the rest of us infidels.
mortimer says
Rubicon, the French intellectuals have just opened PANDORA’S BOX and now the REAL ISLAM will emerge.
What took them so long?
dumbledoresarmy says
Better late than never.
gravenimage says
Agreed.
Wellington says
Verses of peace?
More like verses of pieces, i.e., body parts.
Look, virtually every religion threatens something in the next world if you don’t believe this, that or the other thing. Many religions also threaten that the deity or deities they aver exist might also harm you in this world. But only Islam instructs its believers to also use force to insure its religious dictates here on earth (e.g., 164 verses in the Koran calling upon Muslims to wage war upon all non-Muslims “until all religion is with Allah” {Sura 8:39} versus 0 verses in the New Testament calling upon all Christians to do the same—164 to 0!) .
This is what separates Islam from all other religions on earth. Minus this, Islam would be just another religion issuing dire warnings about the next world for non-believers or in this world per their deity of choice. But this “third element,” which is unique to Islam, at least among the major faiths of the world, and which is codified in its religious texts, the Koran, hadiths and sira, goes to the heart of why Islam is a mortal threat to such good things as freedom, equality under the law, women’s rights, a Golden Rule for all, overall graciousness, fine music, romantic love, beer, and so on.
Yes, this “aspect” of Islam is the real culprit. Minus this “aspect,” this “third element,” a site like Jihad Watch would have never come into existence in the first place (nor would 9/11 have occurred or the over 32,000 documented Islamic terrorist attacks worldwide since that dark day in American history, courtesy of the worst religion of all time). Oh yeah, this “third element” is key to a comprehension of why Islam is the turd in the punch bowl of world religions.
Miss this and you miss a lot. Would be deuce difficult to miss anything more so. Yep, the “third element” is the problem. Big time.
gravenimage says
Very true, Wellington. Muslims themselves enforce Islam’s vicious diktats.
del says
And that third aspect makes Islam a political ideology rather than a personal faith religion – which is what westerners generally understand a religion to be. Significant push-back against Islam in the West probably depends upon widespread understanding that Islam is actually an aggressive and supremacist political ideology with a religious veneer, significantly different from most religions. Unfortunately there is some cultural arrogance in the West which causes people to think that, for example, the European Enlightenment, with its resultant separation of church and state, is natural, organic to humanity, worldwide, and self-evidently true for all. It isn’t. The European Enlightenment was a Western cultural development; it is alien to Islamic culture. Whenever I read people asserting that Islam needs a Reformation, I cringe. It needs an Enlightenment. But the ideology of Islam and its followers reject any Enlightenment – also (un-capitalized) enlightenment, as abomination or heresy.
jihad3tracker says
HELLO AGAIN WELLINGTON + HIS RESPONDENTS — As commenter Del writes “Islam is actually an aggressive and supremacist political ideology with a religious veneer”.
SOFT QUIET JIHADISTS include CAIR personnel in every state, ultra privilege white person Jordan Duffner, black duped fool #1 Keith Ellison, black duped fool #2 Andre Carson, Sharia loving Linda Sarsour, emotionally disturbled GU professor Christine Fair, brain cannibal Reza Aslan, dimestore thug Nathan Lean, taqiyyist traitor John Esposito, plus at least a dozen more.
Robert Spencer and his colleague Pamela Geller devote 24 / 7 counter jihad work against them — so that we will not do down the same drain of surrender which Sweden, Norway, Belgium, Germany, France, UK have as their destiny.
KJW says
They consider aggression those who do not accept their jihad and desire to subjugate the world to Islam, that being their warped idea of “peace.” The raids on other tribes, the killing and exiling of Jews who lived in Medina before Muhammad, Abu Bakr’s And Umar’s invasions of Palestine, Jerusalem, Syria, Iraq, Egypt , etc. were not in self-defense.
If this Al—Azhar liar believes in the Hadith and Sira, then there is also the Oath of Aqaba which was a pledge of allegiance to “in the name of Allah fight all of mankind.” Allah gave them permission to fight and Muhammad used the excuse that other people’s were being deprived of Allah, so it was OK. How does this liar explain away the raids and booty…one-fifth of the booty going to Muhammad as explained in the Qur’an. Their Prophet was a general and carried on by his companions.
It’s also clearly evident in the Qur’an that Muslims should not take non-Muslims as friends/allies/helpers and that non-Muslims will try to seduce them away from their faith.
His response also displays the overwhelming amount of verses saying how the non-Muslims will be tortured in hell in all sorts of heinous ways and open-ended for more different kind of punishments. Go to hell is standard Qur’anic talk ad nauseam.
While removing verses is as pointless as removing verses from Leviticus, etc., they can stop pretending or lying about the truth and how ANY Muslim can follow the example of Muhammad to hatred and war via jihad by stealth, subversion or physically attacking…whatever means possible. Islam and the Middle East needs psychotherapy regarding these Qur’an issues and their attempts to hide their history and bad behaviors, no less while complaining about the Western world.
Btw, ISIS are unfortunately Muhammadans and our security people need to stop lying about it and worrying about hurting people’s feelings, for Muslims keep hurting other people’s feelings too, no less in their “perfect” Qur’an and their “example to all of mankind,” that is, Muhammad. He is no holy, moral or ethical and peace-loving guy. He’s more an example of what *not* to do and think!
Julea Bacall says
Yes and naturally he feels afraid to stand up for change when they usually kill people for trying that. It needs to be a bigger group coming to the decision.
But I wonder, how could they because is structured in a succession form. Like a straight line that went from Adam, whose leadership went to Noah, whose leadership went to sons and then Moses as a prophet. They admit Jesus came next replacing the leadership and then Mohammed comes as the LAST LEADER in the line of Abraham. So of course, Jews and Christians are supposed to now follow Mohammed in a straight line of succession like kings would do. Mohammed is supposed to be the head of the tribe of Islam, the last of the tribe of Abraham, which is THE ONLY True Religion commanded by Allah to rule earth. They say its even in the Jewish Torah. Also that Allah cursed the Jews for straying & Muslims have to bring them back. Its duty. Thats all in the Qur’an. People who read it should know.
Lucretius says
Of course they’re verses of peace. Contemplating Allah’s painful punishments through the hands of the believers and in the fire to come is what “soothes the breasts of a believing people.”
Matthieu Baudin says
“… Egyptian media quoted Dr. Abbas Shuman, deputy of Al-Azhar, as saying on Thursday that ‘the demand of 300 French personalities to freeze verses in the Koran, claiming that it urges the killing of non-Muslims, is unjustified and unacceptable…’…”
The cat is out of the bag – at least in France. The call to freeze or quarantine the many calls to violence against unbelievers has put the presence of these verses firmly in the spotlight and there will be no retraction. The broader public will see these verses more clearly for what they are as this battle of principle is played out. Dr Abbas has responded with the usual rigidity and acute stubbornness that characterises Traditional Islam and he shares the same elevated arrogance that assumes that his supremacist cult can march into any civilisation and be absorbed virus like into the host body.
Julea Bacall says
The public has not seen however. I think each country should take that letter and get their governments and human rights groups to sign it as well until it is overwhelming and then let Nikki Haley take it to UN.
This is what I want done.
This would bring it to the PUBLIC when we get our medias to re print it. This is the only way I can finally see to begin change.
Karen says
Shuman says: “The verses of fighting are all in the context of a response to aggression if it is declared against us… This principle is not disputed even among those who demand a freeze on these verses.”
LOL. Right. Such an idiotic statement.
No Fear says
If the man is correct and the verses are peaceful, that shows just how diabolical the Quran is. It says one thing, provides no context, but actually means the opposite.
Georg says
“Al-Azhar on French call to reform Qur’an: ‘Go to hell!'”
Nope, no reform needed. Tweedle-dee. Ho-hum.. How ’bout that weather?
Carol the 1st says
Anyway it was just a group of “personalities” that came up with some irritating clamor! The Islamic hot-air balloon must stay afloat at all costs. The Islamic Atlas will nobly refuse to shrug. The 72 virgins will not be left alone to pine.
Terry Gain says
Muslims are clearly winning this war. – which only one side is fighting. They have no need to change a thing, though if I were a Muslim, I would urge my co-religionists to let up on the violence and concentrate on victimhood and civilization jihad.
boakai ngombu says
and, islam cannot stand the glare of the Son – LIGHT of the World..
slaves (muslims) of the allah god of islam (unknowable; the best of all deceivers) do not realize that their subjugation to it – through fear, intimidation, deceit – reveals it’s FAILURE.
islam is neither perfect not complete.
there is no joy in islam because there is no ABSOLUTION from the guilt of Adam’s sin which befalls all, proven by death. the allah god cannot remove that guilt, which festers especially to rage in the slave when not removed.
muhammad (lately contrived; full of lusts; having no compassion) needed purification at least twice and died uncertain that he would be accepted by the allah god. in his memory the allah god makes demands for useless blood sacrifices born in vengeance and other horrendous acts done by its raging slaves
however, the Son was sent into the world not to condemn the world but to save it through Him. FAITH in the Son saves from the condemnation due those baring the guilt of Adam.
THAT FAITH in the Son is evidence of acceptance by the Savior and Lord and assures of deliverance from condemnation. that actually produces joy and peace in burdened hearts and minds
Julea Bacall says
They can’t. They can only ask for political takeover. This IS the main point of Islam. It IS ISLAM. If they stop the takeovers its like saying they do not Believe Allah wants this ONLY TRUE Religion in the line of Abraham to rule and that Is what the Qur’an says. When they freeze or change (Even the words of Warlords and not Jibral) they are called apostates, unbelievers, traitors, its blasphemy
That is why they cannot Recognize any other religion as legit—because they are the ONLY ONE. ONE.
They cannot recognize the Pope as a man of Allah. They cannot recognize Judaism as from Allah. They cannot recognize Israel as a Jewish State. Because they say there is no Jewish any more. Allah replaced it with Islam. Islam is the ONLY ONE.(they say)
utis says
If ignoring even one letter of the Perfect Book is wrong, how does Shuman explain abrogration? By any normal thinking, certain parts of the Koran were changed, improved and their predecessors ignored. A perfect book, unchanging and unchanged, yet changed. Huh?
Mark Swan says
More than 90 verses in the Qur’an counsel war against the “unbelievers”—(e.g. Surahs 4:101; 5:51; 9:29), and prescribe execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile for those who wage war against Muhammad and Allah (Surah 5:33).
Interestingly, although the Qur’an asserts that Allah has the power to bring every person to salvation, he apparently chooses not to. Rather, his desire is, “I will fill hell with demons and men altogether” (Surah 32:13). Hell in Islam is an ever-burning fire in which the damned will spend eternity (Surah 5:36–37).
How does the Allah of Islam compare to the God of the Bible? The God of the Bible is constant and does not change (Malachi 3:6; Hebrews 13:8), unlike Allah who, according to the Qur’an, changes his revealed truths as he likes (Surah 2:106).
The God of the Bible loved the world so much that He offered His only begotten Son, so that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life (John 3:16). His intent was not to condemn the world, but that through His Son, the world might be saved (v. 17).
Keys says
The non-German, Dr. Shuman, the angry liar, knows Allah’s world is divided in two: Dar al harb (the world of war, kuffarville – the territory of war) and Dar al Islam (the house of Islam, those who submit to Allah).
As he says:
Blah, blah, blah … “The verses of fighting are all in the context of a response to aggression if it is declared against us” … blah … “They [muslim scholars] recognize the right of self-defense, defense of the the homeland, and resistance to other forms of aggression.” blah, blah, blah.
Resistance to other forms of aggression like refusing to submit ?
Like quoting the Koran with the intent to harm Islam ?
Julea Bacall says
Yes, and like fighting terrorism which they do not Call ‘terrorism. They call it something else honorable and necessary. Just saying “NO” to them makes you an aggressive enemy. and they say Well, you were warned first not to go against us. Allah wants it, he told us so. Have to do it. Saying No to them is saying NO to Allah. That makes the NO sayers Enemy of Allah. Aggressive enemy especially explaining your NO to others.
Lydia Church says
Yes, after everyone’s blood has been spilled, things get real, real ‘peaceful’!
You can even hear the crickets…
Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY) says
==QUOTE== Al-Azhar denounced French calls for the “freezing” of verses in the Koran ==UNQUOTE==
I’m sorry, but this article makes no sense until we know what it means to “freeze” a verse of a text. To my mind, “freezing” would have to mean “to prevent any changes to the text from what it says now”. But from context, “freezing” seems to mean “deleting”. Could someone knowledgeable please look at the original text at
https://www.eremnews.com/news/arab-world/egypt/1303299
and identify the word that has been translated as “freezing”. Does that Arabic word have some other meaning that makes sense in this context?
Julea Bacall says
Where can I find the copy of the petition Letter?
Pal says
Mark,
French manifesto text says: “frappés d’obsolescence”.
I.e., “be obsoleted” / “to be rendered obsolete”.
More relevantly: “to be renounced” / “made/considered as invalid, void”
http://www.leparisien.fr/societe/manifeste-contre-le-nouvel-antisemitisme-21-04-2018-7676787.php
Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY) says
Thank, Pal. Another source confirms your report. The French “frappés d’obsolescence” (made obsolete, renounced) somehow got translated into Arabic as “tajmeed”, meaning “freezing,” “hardening,” “solidification,” etc. And then this Arabic got translated into English as “freezing”, which doesn’t make much sense in this context. Possibly this error can be attributed to machine translation (e.g., Google Translate), probably in the French-to-Arabic step.
Carol the 1st says
Oh, right! “somehow got translated into Arabic as ‘freezing’ etc.” and thus the imams and shills were fortuitously enabled to pretend some indecisiveness was going on in the best of the silly Kafir minds. Can’t rush to judgment when Islam is so very profound.
Julea Bacall says
Is there a proper English translation?
gravenimage says
Thanks, Pal.
Pal says
Mark,
Thanks.
I think, “freeze” comes semantically as relevant.
Since words in Quran cannot be “changed” or “modified” or “improved” or so, and we know that.
Of course, it is good to know what France’s former president N. Sarkozy, its three former PMs, 250 intellectuals and politicians – or their experts on Islam, if so – have had in their minds when composing text and using: “…les versets du Coran appelant au meurtre et au châtiment des juifs, des chrétiens et des incroyants soient frappés d’obsolescence par les autorités théologiques…”.
It is obvious that they have wished: “…(Islamic, such as Al-Azhar, at least) theologian authorities… to render those verses ineffective…”.
But only “obvious”.
(In fact, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, others like her, already had similar suggestions, too.)
I asked some French friends linked to that effort in their country to clarify that meaning for me.
GravenInage, you are welcome too.
Julea, no idea if English translation exists.
With kind regards!
Julea Bacall says
We so look forward to hearing from you more on what your French friends have to say or what is the general feel…do people even pay attention or think it matters?
Carol the 1st says
Just go to Le Parisien, find the article (which I happen to have just supplied) and use Google Translate (it does a good job and translating “soient frappés d’obsolescence” didn’t seem at all beyond its powers.)
Pal says
I received responses by two French friends involved:
“… asking theologian authorities… resp. verses to be announced as outdated thus (implicitly) not valid for Muslims to refer to / use them anymore…”
Carol the 1st says
Best look at the real petition:
http://www.leparisien.fr/societe/manifeste-contre-le-nouvel-antisemitisme-21-04-2018-7676787.php
I see no hint of let’s-keep-our-feet-stuck-in-the-mud-while-“freezing”, but “BE OBSOLETED” stands out loud and clear.
Moratorium anyone?
mortimer says
Since the Koran is considered ‘ETERNAL, PERFECT and COMPLETE’, it cannot be reformed.
To reform perfection is to render it imperfect.
To reform what is complete removes its completeness.
To reform what is ‘eternal’ refutes that it was ‘eternal’, and insists the message was TEMPORARY!
gravenimage says
True, Mortimer.
stang666 says
Mortimer , and those before this point in this comment section. Thank you for restoring my faith in civilized conversation around Islam. I had give-up on reading these comments because ,most like myself, do not have the proper knowledge and understanding of Islam and Muslims to put a meaningful comment together. It was very refreshing, for lack of a better word, and insightful to see.
gravenimage says
Glad to see you were heartened. Don’t give up!
krishna says
yeah muhammad killed jews ,pagans cut offf feets and hands of his enemies for self defense
Julea Bacall says
They did this in 600AD and they did this in Hebron 1929 (Ears too) in order to take over the Cave of Patriarchs and tell the world it is Muslim. (there are even photos of them and Jews in hospital without and some Muslims dried them and kept them in cigar boxes as trophies. (It is true also that a few Muslim families hid their Jewish neighbor) They will tell the world Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus were Muslim and Mohammed is the Last true leader for everyone. Thats the main reason they MUST have Israel and all Jewish history. Yes, they want the world but Abraham IS A key to their STORY. (Ishmiel was supposedly half Jewish half Egyptian but after Arabs conquered Egypt and Arabized it, they took the history too and called all the people ARAB…but they were not till much intermixing. (there is a break in Iran too where many people still maintain they are Persian, not Arab but because Mohammed was from a supposedly Arab type tribe, Iran became ‘Arab”. Also there is intermixing now and was before but the Arab was not even used until around the time the Qur’an was made. There were other names for the regions.
krishna says
yeah muhammad killed jews ,pagans cut offf feets and hands of his enemies for self defense
there is no such thing as defensive jihad
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
France is now wild and virel in hostility towards Muslims in France who are now practicing muslims unlike before and resisting French culture of forcing black Africans to have sex with their dogs and horses or be deported. Wicked wild animals!!
Alex says
Sod off you illiterate lying troll.
Lavéritétriomphera says
Ibrahim itace mohammed,
Do you think you are normal ? Some black Africans are highly respected here in France.
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
Leveritetriomphera, you lied. France treat black Africans like animals. I am currently in one of French former colonies rendering technical services to fix its economy ravaged by France
Lavéritétriomphera says
@Ibrahim itace muhammed,
Islam is the only religion that allows hypocrisy, you lie so much that you cannot distinguish between truth and falsehood. You will never say how some black people treat badly other black people no matter their religion. Man is a wolf to man.
I finally settled in France, I was 19 years old, I came from sub-Saharan Africa and some of my fellow citizens gessed that I was a Frenchman from Africa, and you will not tell me tales.
boakai ngombu says
itace, youre still dead in soul. you said: rendering technical services to fix its economy
doesn’t that mean you’re reworking the economy so that drugs sexslaves, and weapons can pass through the country in which you work?
gravenimage says
That country is in a lot of trouble if they have Ibrahim itace muhammed offering them technical services.
As for the worth of his economic advice, he has previously said that countries like Turkey and Pakistan are more technologically innovative than nations like America and Germany, and that the American dollar is as of two days ago worth $0.
With advice like this, we see why Dar-al-Islam is the economic basket case that it is…
Mark Swan says
Good One gravenimage.
Carol the 1st says
“technical services”? – does that mean you’re teaching them to grow poppies or something? No doubt that’s been ‘sanctified’ as keeping people away from an occasional beer and funding the glorious jihad enterprise instead. No surprises.
Save Europe says
The intolerance is one way you fornicating pillock! It’s from Muslims towards their French hosts and it is both evil and parasitic! I’ve never heard of a French Christian going to Bangladesh, for example, and beheading an Imam in his mosque! Remember your fellow Koranderthals beheading a French Priest?!
6woods says
Hey, Ibby – Every time you post, you demonstrate how confused, irrational, and seriously depraved is the muslim mind. I welcome your posts – they are very educational.
Julea Bacall says
WHAT? someone makes up more lies. No one MAKES them. You mean because they refuse to give them their daughters? Is it that which Makes them? Sex slave rings are being demolished, though still working on it.
gravenimage says
Ibrahim itace muhammed wrote:
France is now wild and virel in hostility towards Muslims in France who are now practicing muslims unlike before
………………………..
By “practicing muslims” Ibrahim itace muhammed means that they are now waging violent Jihad in France, raping and murdering Infidels. He has said before the no Infidel has the right to defend against Jihad.
More:
and resisting French culture of forcing black Africans to have sex with their dogs and horses or be deported. Wicked wild animals!!
………………………..
Ibrahim itace muhammed has made the bizarre claim before that a French court deported an African woman for refuhsing to have sex with a man’s horse and dog. Of course, there is no such case–much less is it “French culture”.
In fact, bestiality is illegal in the civilized West–this is not so in Dar-al-Islam. The Ayratollah Khomeni himself laid out the conditions where raping animals is acceptable in Islam–so long as the victims are slaughtered immediately afterwards, and their meat sold in neighboring villages. This is what passes for religious instruction in Islam. *Ugh*.
duh swami says
Dear Allah…There were some verses in your book I did;t like, so I
erased some and changed others,,,I hope you don’t mind…
Carol the 1st says
Courageous people like freedom and therefore Islam will always have to play whack-a-mole with such people (before heading home for dinner and a wife on a platter).
Maybe that’s the positive reinforcement they get out of this – an endless macho game of whack-a-mole.
James Bong says
God does not make protection rackets, like Islam, his religion. Islamic jizya is a protection racket, is not peace, but criminality, and the so-called “People of the Book” do not need Muslims for protection. We can and WILL protect oiurselves from dirty Muslim criminal blackmailers and rapists.
Jaladhi says
Islamic logic : vile is good, violence is peace. This explains how Muslims are “good” and “peaceful”! Disgusting and brain dead morons!
dumbledoresarmy says
Precisely.
Islam invented Newspeak long, long, long before George Orwell was born.
When Muslims use words – like truth, peace, justice, oppression, persecution, aggression, self-defence, war – all those words have to looked at very very carefully, because usually the Muslims are mentally using the very special Islamspeak definitions of those terms, whilst hoping that their naive kuffar audience will invest those terms with the meaning that kuffar give them…
For example – for Muslims, ‘peace’ = the whole world forced to live in a global sharia despotism aka ‘caliphate’. Until that goal is reached, there is no real ‘peace’, although there is ‘peace’ (from the Musim POV) in any area of the world that has been forced, by Muslims, to ‘submit’ to conscienceless and capricious Muslim despots and the iron yoke of the unlaw that is sharia.
‘war’ and ‘terrorism’ are *anything* kuffar do to resist the imposition of Islam.
Julea Bacall says
Its a whole different language sense, like reading right to left or mirror image. It IS a way of thinking.
gravenimage says
Yes–Muslims use language differently than we do.
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
Hindu barbarian Jaladhi, you idol worshipers are bellow wild animals. when last you raped an outcaste lady inserting stick instead of penis? you and satan in your idols will be casted into hottest lake of hellfire burning forever
Julea Bacall says
Because there are crimes everywhere is no excuse to put Crimes in a book and call it holy law and THE WAY to live like an Authority. Many countries need to evolve up in this world but how many make a Qur’an with what we call crimes, ok’d and even demanded by warlords pretending to know Allah.
Carol the 1st says
Julia…did I hear something oinking before you entered the site?
Julea Bacall says
Whoooooa….Exactly what are you insinuating? Is it true this is a nazi-oriented site? I hear many intelligent forward moving comments but you just mystified me? Tell…What is it you want to Say?
gravenimage says
Julea, I have no idea what Carol meant–she has always been a solid Anti-Jihadist here.
But no–this is *not* “a nazi-oriented site”. There is nothing Fascist about opposing the horrors of Jihad.
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
Jaladhi, you dirty Hindu barbarians are bellow wild animals. when last you raped an outcaste lady inserting stick instead of penis?
gravenimage says
I see that Ibrahim itace muhammed is lauding rape again.
But why not? He hass affirmed that Muslims have the right to rape Infidels and use them as sex slaves.
Of course, there is nothing like this in Hinduism.
Leondegrance2 says
I always thought it was self-evident to a western perspective to issue a “westernised” Quran to mosques/madrassas that omitted the Medina verses. This is simply to protect western society from the cult of death followers who get it into their heads at Friday prayers that everyone outside is subhuman and need to be “dealt” with in a violent manner.
Who cares about the “moderates” who think mass-murder is probably not a good idea. If we could stop one jihad attack on western soil with this it is worth it and I think it would stop much more.
Any mosque/madrassa not complying is a good enough reason to shut it down. Hopefully most of the attendees think it’s a bit too much and leave for their sharia paradise countries.
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
Leondegrance2,you want Muslims to alter the Quran in the same way mithraist christians replaced the Gospels taught by jesus with pagan doctrines of mithraism like Godman and begotten son of God and satan paul replaced moses law with law of grace giving mithraist christians licence to commit genocide, lewdness, armed robbery and international brigandage, all covered by blood of mithraist jesus? Idiot
gravenimage says
What projection–it is Islam that is bloody, not Christianity. Muslims actually hate Christians for worshipping a loving God.
Leondegrance2 says
I don’t want muslims to do anything. We are in control of our countries and will dictate to you what you can preach. If I can interpret that run on sentence of yours, you seem to dislike the idea. Goodbye then.
Julea Bacall says
Yes, we are starting to stand up for Our values as guaranteed and they do Not include what is put forth in the Qur’an, which is now only a warlord manual for takeovers Against certain peoples who will not agree with your bigoted apartheid program of punishment and fear.
Our Constitution does Not take this from nazigroups, KKKlan, Islam or Qur’an, White Supremacists whose Threats are not free speech. The CLOSEDOWN is starting for the sake of humanity, freedom and Universal Human Rights.
Battle says
(Battle (Not to be confused with Battledore please.) (My apologies to Battledore.)
Dr. Abbas Shurman is spokes-Goebels-man for Al-Azhar, Fuhrer, Godfather, Gang Leader. The Fuhrer has spoken.
Aussie Infidel says
What else could we expect from such an esteemed Islamic scholar? Robert is right in pointing out the offending verses (8:39 and 9:29) in the Quran. But only ‘Islamophobes’ could possibly believe that there have been over 32,000 jihad attacks around the world since 9/11 (actually it’s now over 33,000). How time flies when jihadis are busy murdering kafirs. And this militant murderous mullah from Al Azhar also seems to be cast from the same mold as his warlord Prophet.
Those seeking to reform Islam will not be happy. Muslims claim that the Quran is perfect (Q 5:3, 11:1). So what will the French intellectuals now do about it? There is only one solution to this problem. Unless the French are intent on committing religious and cultural suicide, they must proscribe Islam immediately as a criminal ideology which is a threat to national security, close all mosques and if possible, deport all imams
FYI says
So koran 2 v 65,referring to the Jews..
“be ye apes,despised and hated”
Is the word “ape” a misprint?Should it be “grape”?
“be ye grapes,despised and hated”:yeah that must be it.
And when allah says to “slay” the unbelievers wherever ye find them k2:191 does he mean something else..
“sleigh the unbelievers”
Carol the 1st says
Let’s ask Irshad Manji.
No Muzzies Here says
Doesn’t look like there’s much chance for a reform of this violent religion. Too bad our national “leaders” refuse to pay attention to what Muslims are telling us VERY clearly.
Kay says
Giving this guy the benefit of doubt (ahem)
— if it is misunderstood, then the k should be published with extensive notations explaining how the verses don’t mean what they apparently say.
Brother Charles says
I am replying to you to try and get this video out there on this post ,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdWyM3MBm4Y&t=0s&index=1&list=WL
Brother Charles says
ANY REPLY BLOW THIS POST FROM ME DISREGUARD ,BECAUSE GOOGLE REFUSED TO ENTER THE VIDEO , BUT IF YOU GO TO WHAT KAY SAYS ,I GOT THE CHANCE AND LEFT IT ON HER POST ,THANKYOU KAY ,
Julea Bacall says
Right, like (in 600AD but not today) yet how could they fix the ‘keep it up til Judgement Day’? How could they fix “Islam is the One and ONLY Legit religion in the line of Abraham and others only pretend to falsely exist and it is the Muslim Duty to set them straight. No one can even say GOD, which they say is full of false ideas and ONLY the ONE ALLAH is it. There was a discussion of whether in Malaysia some could replace the word Allah with God in the Qur’an. The answer was NO. God is not Allah even if people confuse the ONE Allah idea. The word God would confuse Malaysians they said – because Jews and Christians confused the definitions. And the Qur’an should be read in Arabic to get the true understanding.
Brother Charles says
THE QURAN IS ALREAD CHANGED , IT IS DIFFERENT INMANY WAYS ,IT HAS BEEN ALTERED TIME AND TIME AGAIN ,BUT THEY ARE TO BLIND TO SEE IT AND DO NOT WANT TO HEAR IT , CHECK BELOW,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdWyM3MBm4Y&t=0s&index=1&list=WL
Brother Charles says
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdWyM3MBm4Y&t=0s&index=1&list=WL
Julea Bacall says
Says video unavailable.
Brother Charles says
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/FdWyM3MBm4Y/hqdefault.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEZCPYBEIoBSFXyq4qpAwsIARUAAIZCGAFwAQ==&rs=AOn4CLAdjWEg3MGg8Dr9dRqqYrfYi9FBtw
Twerzig says
Isn’t it mostly women in hell.
gravenimage says
That’s what the “Prophet” said–that they were sent to hell for not being obedient enough to their husbands.
Raping Infidels and mass mudering unbelievers gets you into Paradise, though.
God, I hate Islam.
Carol the 1st says
Monkey hear – Monkey do.
dan christensen says
According to the Quran, the following people shall all end up in hell:
Disbelievers – these are those who don’t believe in Allah
Polytheists – these are people who believe in more than one god.
All people who reject the truth
People who persecute believers
All sinners and criminals
Murderers
The unjust
People who hide Allah’s revelations
People who commit suicide
All tyrants
Hypocrites.
So even the pope have to go – because he does not believe in Allah. At least the Pope never dared to say this in public.
It is noteworthy that all civilized people and all muslims qualify automatically.
You can easily become lonely in paradise these days.
FYI says
Don’t forget ..
pigs:allah hates them.
cartoonists who draw pictures of muhammed
sh’ia muslims
ex-muslims
Jews and Christians
Of course mass murdering jihadists go to paradise:for some reason God’s sixth commandment
prohibiting intentional homicide doesn’t apply to them……it seems allah missed that one..although since they technically commit suicide they might disqualify themselves..
Lavéritétriomphera says
Muslims reject dogs too, it’is forbidden in Islam to have a dog as a pet https://islamqa.info/en/69840.
Julea Bacall says
The Pope still thinks his idea of God equals their idea of Allah. It does not equal.Maybe only is a very few ways but Mohammeds Allah has to replace all other ideas according to them. The Pope again talks without reading the Qur’an or trying to understand Islam or their culture.
Carol the 1st says
dan said…”It is noteworthy that all civilized people and all muslims qualify automatically.
You can easily become lonely in paradise these days.”
It’s just a big joke. Even Mohammed seemed to admit that (always an out):
This article by Nonie Darwish ends with “When will the West respect Mohammed’s prophecy, and send Islam back down the snake hole, the one in Mecca? “:
https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/249923/islams-self-destructive-seed-nonie-darwish
Richard Courtemanche says
It shows how French leadership is ignorant of Islam when other obvious Islamic wrongs should take priority.
Infidel says
What a despicable creature this bearded animal is!!!
Julea Bacall says
OK but remember all turbined men are not Muslim. Learn the difference and a little about them. Its Islam that follows the Qur’an, which is so discriminatory, apartheid, genocidal, totalitarian far, far right to dictator, total intolerance, punishment and Fear,
Battle says
Correction:
At Al-Azhar, Dr. Abbas Shurman, Fuhrer, Godfather, Gang Leader.
The Fuhrer has spoken.
Dr. Darkpool says
Ah yes. Always the religion of peace and harmony. “Convert or you will be killed.” What could be more harmonious than that?
UNCLE VLADDI says
Much, much more on this from Our Man Dajjal, here:
http://islamexposed.blogspot.ca/2018/05/islamic-violence-denial-is-proof.html
Njoi!
😉
Max says
Shuman said: “What those who issued this call think are verses calling for their killing are in reality verses of peace.
What Shuman really meant to say: “What those who issued this call think are verses calling for their killing are in reality verses of pieces … of flesh”.
Simone says
A Muslim would say we are “attacking” or insulting them everyday just by flaunting our un- halal lifestyles before them. Don’t forget, they are the most humiliated of people!