Ramadan Day 23 thought for the day from my new book The History of Jihad: on August 18, 1894, the Ottoman authorities began a massacre of Armenians in the Sassoun region of eastern Asia Minor that lasted a full twenty-four days, until September 10. British vice consul Cecil M. Hallward investigated the massacre and reported to the British crown that “a large majority of the population of some twenty-five villages perished, and some of the villages were unusually large for this country.” At Geliguzan, “a number of young men were bound hand and foot, laid out in a row, had brushwood piled on them, and were burned alive.” And “many other disgusting barbarities are said to have been committed, such as ripping open pregnant women, tearing children to pieces by main force.” At yet another Armenian village, “some sixty young women and girls were driven into a church, where some soldiers were ordered to do as they liked with them and afterwards kill them, which order was carried out.” Hallward noted that he collected these details largely from “soldiers who took part in the massacre.”
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Fred Dawes says
Its coming to you and soon
Savvy Kafir says
Over my dead body! (I realize that outcome is a real possibility; but that’s what it will take.)
Andy says
Another insightful video from Paul Weston that should be seen by everyone.
Terrible what is happening to our Judeo-Christian Western Civilization.
The Traitor Class
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RPoitFQQ8Y
Elisha says
Luke 13:1-5
God bless.
Caroll says
You are right. Am I getting lost?
The world is spiraling toward it’s destruction. Trump receved muslims at the White House as friends.
Who is now against them if not the populists? The leaders are just thinking about profits. It’s hard to be a Christian, as it always been when the the world is tipping. It’s hard to be a jew when the world hates you.
I met a muslim woman (head covered) sitting at the mall. I just signed myself (the Cross). She began speaking arabic and left. It disturbed her a lot. I regained my self confidence.
Am I stupid?
gravenimage says
Not stupid at all.
Charlie says
Caroll, Take time away from all take time away from all this. Spend time with family and friends. Above all, take time for prayer.
Caroll says
Thanks Charlie. Sorry for the text errors too.
mortimer says
1915 AGHET – The Armenian Genocide (In English)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLyrpaTKCCE
mortimer says
MASS BURNING IN ARMENIAN GENOCIDE
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide
Eitan Belkind was a Nili member who infiltrated the Ottoman army as an official. He was assigned to the headquarters of Kemal Pasha. He witnessed the burning of 5,000 Armenians
Lt. Hasan Maruf of the Ottoman army describes how a population of a village were taken all together and then burned.[82] The Commander of the Third Army Vehib’s 12-page affidavit, which was dated 5 December 1918, was presented in the Trabzon trial series (29 March 1919) included in the Key Indictment,[83] reporting such a mass burning of the population of an entire village near Muş: “The shortest method for disposing of the women and children concentrated in the various camps was to burn them”.[84] Further, it was reported that “Turkish prisoners who had apparently witnessed some of these scenes were horrified and maddened at remembering the sight. They told the Russians that the stench of the burning human flesh permeated the air for many days after”. Genocide scholar Vahakn Dadrian wrote that 80,000 Armenians in 90 villages across the Muş plain were burned in “stables and haylofts”.
gravenimage says
Thank you, Mortimer.
KJW says
A guy on a You Tube Iranian TV channel got mad at me for challenging his comment about something political. He came back and, irrelevant to the subject, said, “You’ll see, you Americans will be treated like the Jews.” I asked him to explain what he meant but he didn’t answer.
Then some foreigner said to another person who was criticizing his country something about FEMA camps and guillotines and that, “Seens like you have an enemy within.” Such ideas float around. What are our politicians thinking? They are technically the American citizens’ employees, which they ignore. The idea that people are even thinking of holocaust or concentration camp ideas for Americans is bizarre and sick for my lifetime. When young the biggest threat was the Soviet Cold War safely cold with mutually assured destruction.
Our media would call this nutty conspiracy theories yet apparently hostile foreigners have this idea too. That would also mean black Americans would be once again enslaved as we all would, but black Africans are already treated badly and called “abd” (slave) as an insult and Arab imams still support slavery. Either way one is “enslaved” by the submitters to Allah, also known as Muslims…enslaved to sharia law and lower status.
As jihadis plotted to kill the little prince in England, I suspect politians children won’t necessarily be safe. In Islamic conquests they did torture and kill some of the elite ruling class. Islamists don’t feel they have to uphold agreements; the old saying is “Never trust an Arab.” How did that saying start?
Denny Abrahamsson says
Islam is from the Devil. A disgrace and plague that should be banned in civilized countries.
Savvy Kafir says
Islam should definitely be banned in all civilized countries — and SOON, before it’s too late — and all of its adherents sent back to the desert, or whatever Islamic sh*t-hole region they or their parents came from.
Islam is different, and poses a unique threat. It needs to be treated differently. It cannot be protected by the same laws that protect other, less-dangerous ideologies. It’s FAR more than a religion, and cannot be protected as a religious faith.
It’s time to stop contemplating half-measures, temporary fixes, and unworkable strategies that cannot possibly succeed in protecting Western Civilization from the scourge of Islam. Time to treat this conflict like the global war that it is. A war in which the survival of the civilized world hangs in the balance. A war waged primarily by “peaceful, moderate” Stealth Jihadis and Demographic Jihadis — and their politically-correct defenders & enablers.
abad says
Of course Islam is from Satan.
You know what is not so hilarious?
That Moslems claim to be an Abrahamic religion yet not only completely and totally violate ALL of the Ten Commandments, but they are anti-life, amoral, immoral, and intent on destroying civilized society and ultimately the human race.
Islam does NOT belong in the western world at all.
Joss says
Tell that to our western politicos, who’re more interested in their pension pots than ans islumic threat!
HugoHackenbush says
Should I ever run into someone who denies the Armenian genocide I will simply quote someone whose judgement I trust…HITLER. When he proposed his “final solution” for the Jews one of his generals said “What will history record?”. Herr Hitler replied (shrugging), “who remembers the slaughter of the Armenians by the Turks?”
HugoHackenbush says
Armenian genocide? Take Hitler’s word for it. When a general asked “what will history say?” when Hitler proposed the “final solution” Hitler replied “who remembers the slaughter of the Armenians by the Turks?”.
CogitoErgoSum says
And the motivation of the Turks for doing this was ……? Well, let’s blame the victims per this video sponsored by the Turkish government. Oh wait, the speaker is talking about the time period of World War I (1914-!8). But Robert Spencer is talking about a massacre that took place in 1894. So again, what was the motivation for eliciting such violent actions by the Turks?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBWSSzyjD0s
So therefore, the Armenians were rebellious dhimmis who must share in the responsibility for making the Turks commit genocide. According to that logic, Lincoln should have rounded up every citizen of the Confederacy and had his soldiers kill all the men, rape all the women, and let the children fend for themselves …. with malice toward none and clarity for all.
David Grisez says
I noticed in this article that one of the atrocities committed against the Armenian People was ripping open pregnant women. This is an atrocity that has a history in the Holy Bible. In the book of Amos 1:13 there is the statement “Thus says the LORD, For three transgressions of the sons of Ammon and for four I will not revoke its punishment, Because they ripped open the pregnant women of Gilead in order to enlarge their borders, NASB translation.” This atrocity was done to both kill the woman and to take the unborn child and dash the child to death against rocks.
Koosemo says
Which is exactly what the Pakistani devils did in Mumbai
gravenimage says
True–this is what Muslims did to the pregnant Jewish woman. God, I hate Islam.
gravenimage says
“Young men were bound hand and foot, laid out in a row, had brushwood piled on them, and were burned alive”
……………………..
*Horrifying*. These poor young men. There are no depths of depravity to which Islam will not sink.
Also note: this happened in 1894. As I have often noted, this gives the lie to the frequent claim that the Armenian Genocide happened just in 1915, and was–somehow–simply a Turkish reaction to WWI.
The truth is that the Armemian Genocide–really, a genocide that targeted *all* Christians–Greeks, Assyrians, and Levantines as well as Armenians–lasted from the mid-1890s through 1915 to 1922, in waves of savagery–and was begun by the Ottoman Empire, and lasted through the “Young Turks” and Attaturk, as well.
Michael Copeland says
Mohammed said:
” “Torture him until you extract what he has.”
So he kindled a fire with flint and steel on his chest until he was nearly dead. Then the apostle delivered him to Muhammad bin Maslama and he struck off his head.” (Bukhari)
The “beautiful pattern” of the “perfect man”.
gravenimage says
Grimly true, Michael.
mortimer says
British vice consul Cecil M. Hallward recorded unspeakable Muslim atrocities in the 1890s, but these are typical of Muslims armies for the last 1400 years, since they are all using Mohammed as a role model. In 1971, the Pakistani army raped 400,000 Bengali women and murdered 3 million Bengalis after fatwas were issued by Muslim clerics to authorize rape, plunder and murder of disbelievers on the basis of Sharia law.
ISIS and the grooming gangs in England only the latest examples of Islam atrocities and crimes against humanity.
No Muzzies Here says
The Turks, inspired by the ideology of Islam, saw absolutely nothing wrong with brutally raping and murdering people who did not share their ideology.
The ideology is the problem. It gives permission to perform acts on other humans that are completely in opposition with reason and sanity.
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
Mr Spencer, your assertion that ottoman soldiers narrated the stories and testimonies of witness together with a report by Britain which was then àt war with ottoman Turks acannot be cogent and irréfutable historical evidence that such incidence truely took place. There must be an independant and unbiased accounts of what happened. In fact It was hostile British who quoted ottoman soldiers saying It, no other sources reported. The preponderance historical evidence is that a civil strife took between ethnic Armenians and Turks and the ottoman Government then put the situation under control. It should be noted that ottoman Caliphate ruled under sharia and the sharia does not allow killings of civilian population .Again, even though Mr Spencer called his book à compréhensive accounts on what happened to ethnic Armenians ,being a Greek under ottoman Turks he must be biased and that he is not an expert historian to conduct objective historical investigation. Mr Spencer’s book, therefore, remains a fiction like salman Rushdie’s book”the satanic Verses “described as “A Rubbish “by non muslim Reviewer.
DHazard says
Muslims tend to go overboard with the murder, rape, stealing, and general mayhem. But of course they are just emulating the “perfect” man. I mean, give them a break. With all the suppressing of sex, humor, intimacy and joy that Islam dictates they really don’t have any options other than act out or apostatize. Not wanting a death threat hanging over their heads they turn to ruining other people’s lives instead, during a very extended, often permanent, adolescence.
DHazard says
“…cannot be cogent and irréfutable historical evidence that such incidence truely took place. There must be an independant and unbiased accounts of what happened.”
Exactly like Muhammad’s “Night Journey”. Or his first encounter with Jibril in a cave. or his claim that all of his revelations came from Allah, or all of the Quran, Hadith and biographies of Muhammad. No evidence that any of them are true at all. What little we know of the beginnings of Islam and the stories of Muhammad come from Western scholars and it doesn’t match with Muslim claims.
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
Dhazard, your present mithraist pagan Bible is a collection of speculative myths by anonymous writers Who wrote It more than a century after jesus’ departure .Eg, in Matthew jesus was reported to have told the audience standing infront of him that this physical world Will end before they die,and those people standing have been dead for more than 2000 now and this physical world is still in existence as of today 8th day of June, 2018.It means the prophecy is a lie inspired by the satan you Call holy spirit, not said by true Jesus. Fools !!
gravenimage says
Ibrahim itace muhammed wrote:
…in Matthew jesus was reported to have told the audience standing infront of him that this physical world Will end before they die,and those people standing have been dead for more than 2000 now…
…………………………..
Of course, this is not true, In Matthew, Jesus said, “…all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet…”.
Jesus famously never gave a date for the end times to come to pass. Why is Ibrahim itace muhammed so ignorant?
Joss says
Once again, Ibrahim, just why do you persistin your “mithraist Christianity” stuff ? The one has nothing to do with the other…you need to read a book on theology other than the koran!
MTMLA says
And all the horrors ISIS did, is not true either? They were following the deeds of your satanic prophet. You are a liar, practicing taqqiya.
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
Satan (holy spirit ),In Matthew jesus explicitly stated that those standing infront of him Will not taste death until this physical world has ended ,and those people standing have been dead for more than 2000 years ago. what are those things that came to pass ? . À fool !!
gravenimage says
Why does Ibrahim itace muhammed keep on spamming falsehoods? Oh…wait…
gravenimage says
The vile Ibrahim itace muhammed wrote:
Mr Spencer, your assertion that ottoman soldiers narrated the stories and testimonies of witness together with a report by Britain which was then àt war with ottoman Turks acannot be cogent and irréfutable historical evidence that such incidence truely took place. There must be an independant and unbiased accounts of what happened. In fact It was hostile British who quoted ottoman soldiers saying It, no other sources reported.
………………………………
Of course, the Armenian Genocide is one of the most amply chronicled atrociteis in history. There are accounts from survivors, from diplomats, journalists, and charity workers, and from Ottoman and other Turkish authorities themselves.
It is odd, in any case, since Ibrahim itace muhammed has affirmed that Muslims can slaughter any peoples who do not fully submit to Islam. If Muslims ever come to full global power, far from denying the Armenian Genocide, they will threaten Infidels with more of the same.
Moreover, note Ibrahim itace muhammed’s false claim that Britain was at war with the Ottoman Empire at this time. This is more of the same of what I noted in my post above–the false claimd that the Armenian Genocide only took place during WWI.
But this is a lie–the atrocity cited above took place in 1894–Britain was not at war with the Ottomans during this period.
More:
The preponderance historical evidence is that a civil strife took between ethnic Armenians and Turks and the ottoman Government then put the situation under control.
………………………………
We’ve heard *this* before–that Christians in Turkey so annoyed Muslims that they had no choice by to slaughter up to two million of them. *This* is what the foul Ibrahim itace muhammed considers these genocidal Muslims putting “the situation under control”. *Ugh*.
Only a tiny remnant of Christians survive in Turkey today.
More:
It should be noted that ottoman Caliphate ruled under sharia and the sharia does not allow killings of civilian population .
………………………………
And yet, the Ottoman Caliphate butchered hundreds of thousands of their own citizens. Of course, Ibrahim itace muhammed cannot explain this.
More:
Again, even though Mr Spencer called his book à compréhensive accounts on what happened to ethnic Armenians ,being a Greek under ottoman Turks he must be biased and that he is not an expert historian to conduct objective historical investigation.
………………………………
So Ibrahim itace muhammed is saying that since Robert Spencer’s ancestors suffered under Muslim savagery that Muslims should be able to go on persecuting the descendants of their victims in perpetuity. *Sickening*.
Moreover, if–as he implies–the Armenian Genocide did not happen, then why would it be necessary to silence those who suffered under it? As usual, Ibrahim itace muhammed rejects reason and logic.
More:
Mr Spencer’s book, therefore, remains a fiction like salman Rushdie’s book”the satanic Verses “described as “A Rubbish “by non muslim Reviewer.
………………………………
Well, this makes no sense at all. “The Satanic Verses” is a work of fiction–neither its author nor anyone else has ever claimed that it is non-fiction.
I very much doubt that any reviewer called it “a rubbish”–if only because most reviewers of any caliber are rather more literate than this. I cannot find any reference to any reviewer calling it–less iliterately–“rubbish”, either.
But even if they had, Ibrahim itace muhammed shows here that he does not understand the first thing about criticism of fiction. This would be a criticism of Rushdie’s writing, *not* an estimation of the factual nature of the work.
Even more to the point, though, is the manner in which Muslims reacted to the book–with a Fatwa calling for Rushdie’s murder. While he has survived so far, his editor and one of his translators have indeed been murdered by Ibrahim itace muhammed’s pious coreligionists, and Rushdie himself has been in varying degrees of hiding for decades now.
In other words. his comparing Robert Spencer’s work to that of Salman Rushdie is a *threat on his life*.,
Dare say that Muslims have been violent, and they will kill you…
Buraq says
@ Ibe itace Mohamed
Hi Habibi, you’ve been overdoing the hookah pipe again, you clown! Shariah states that if a dhimmi population breaks its agreement to accept dhimmi status and pay jizya, they can be dealt with by the ruling Islamic authorities in any way they like.
The Armenians appealed to Britain to bring pressure to bear on the Turkish authorities to relax the burden of their dhimmi status in the 19th Century. Britain obliged, but the Turkish authorities saw this action by the Armenians as a breach of their dhimmi status.
As per Shariah, the Armenians were cruelly butchered by Muslims!
gravenimage says
Spot on, Buraq.
Joe says
Why do you constantly defend murder, rape, robbery, and other diabolic acts? Do they have Internet service in Hell? Clearly, that must be your location.
Besides all of these atrocities, Islam has no path to either enlightenment or salvation. Islam only offers misery, torture, death, and destruction. Yet, this is what you seek!
gravenimage says
Joe, Ibrahim itace muhammed is a pious Muslim–he has to defend murder, rape, and robbery, or else he’d be criticizing his own “Prophet”.
mortimer says
Ibrahim is a replica of David Irving, the Holocaust Denier. The 270 million killed from jihad are LIES, LIES, LIES, says Ibrahim.
Muslims never committed mass murder, not even the exemplar of Islamic genocide, the founder of Islam. The genocidal massacre and enslavement of the Yathrib Jews cannot be ‘wrong’ in the mind of genocidist.
No, it isn’t to be considered ‘genocide’ when Muslims do it. Right, Ibrahim. You are observed as inconsistent.
mortimer says
IBRAHIM DENIES, then JUSTIFIES and then DEFENDS THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE … However, the Turkish leaders already admitted the genocides at the time they occurred:
Proof of Armenian Genocide:
1) In May 1915, Mehmet Talaat Pasha requested that the cabinet and Grand Vizier Said Halim Pasha legalize a measure for the deportation of Armenians to other places due to what Talaat Pasha called “the Armenian riots and massacres, which had arisen in a number of places in the country”.
2) Henry Morgenthau, Sr., U.S. Ambassador to the Ottoman Empire Ambassador, 1919:
‘When the Turkish authorities gave the orders for these deportations, they were merely giving the death warrant to a whole race; they understood this well, and, in their conversations with me, they made no particular attempt to conceal the fact. . . . I am confident that the whole history of the human race contains no such horrible episode as this. The great massacres and persecutions of the past seem almost insignificant when compared to the sufferings of the Armenian race in 1915.’
3) One of the triumvirate rulers publicly declared on 19 May 1916…
‘The Ottoman Empire should be cleaned up of the Armenians and the Lebanese. We have destroyed the former by the sword, we shall destroy the latter through starvation.’
4) In a conversation with Dr. Mordtmann of the German Embassy in June 1915…
‘Turkey is taking advantage of the war in order to thoroughly liquidate (grundlich aufzaumen) its internal foes, i.e., the indigenous Christians, without being thereby disturbed by foreign intervention. What on earth do you want? The question is settled. There are no more Armenians.’
5) Cemal Pasha, Minister of the Interior of Turkey publicly declared that on the basis of computations undertaken by Ministry Experts…
‘800,000 Armenian deportees were actually killed…by holding the guilty accountable the government is intent on cleansing the bloody past.’
6) Prince Abdul Mecid (heir-apparent to the Ottoman Throne, during an interview and later Caliph of Islam until 1924) said, “I refer to those awful massacres. They are the greatest stain that has ever disgraced our nation and race. They were entirely the work of Talat and Enver. I heard some days before they began that they were intended. I went to Istanbul and insisted on seeing Enver. I asked him if it was true that they intended to recommence the massacres which had been our shame and disgrace under Abdul Hamid. The only reply I could get from him was: ‘It is decided. It is the program.’”
7) Mustafa Arif, Minister of Interior stated on 13 December 1918…
“Surely a few Armenians aided and abetted our enemy, and a few Armenian Deputies committed crimes against the Turkish nation… it is incumbent upon a government to pursue the guilty ones. Unfortunately, our wartime leaders, imbued with a spirit of brigandage, carried out the law of deportation in a manner that could surpass the proclivities of the most bloodthirsty bandits. They decided to exterminate the Armenians, and they did exterminate them.’
8) German Ambassador (Count Wolff-Metternich) to the Ottoman Empire July 10, 1916, cable to the German Chancellor: ‘In its attempt to carry out its purpose to resolve the Armenian question by the destruction of the Armenian race, the Turkish government has refused to be deterred neither by our representations, nor by those of the American Embassy, nor by the delegate of the Pope, nor by the threats of the Allied Powers, nor in deference to the public opinion of the West representing one-half of the world.’
9) Prof. Colin Tatz, Director, Centre for Comparative Genocide Studies
‘ The Turkish denial [of the Armenian Genocide] is probably the foremost example of historical perversion. With a mix of academic sophistication and diplomatic thuggery — of which we at Macquarie University have been targets — the Turks have put both memory and history into reverse gear.’
10) Stanley Cohen, Professor of Criminology, Hebrew University, Jerusalem:
‘ The nearest successful example [of collective denial] in the modern era is the 80 years of official denial by successive Turkish governments of the 1915-17 genocide against the Armenians in which 1.5 million people lost their lives. This denial has been sustained by deliberate propaganda, lying and cover-ups, forging documents, suppression of archives, and bribing scholars.’
mortimer says
Turkish Professor Ugur Ungor Explains The Armenian Genocide
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_WDJwmxFhY
mortimer says
Eyewitnesses of Armenian Genocide
Armenian genocide: survivors recall events 100 years ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAAq1zSXCug
mortimer says
Ibrahim, you are UNREAD, UNSTUDIED and UNPREPARED to discuss the Armenian genocide, so you lose.
List of historically neutral books by various unbiased Western historians and scholars on the events labeled as the Armenian Genocide:
◦ The Armenian Massacres in Ottoman Turkey: A Disputed Genocide by Guenter Lewy (ISBN13: 978-0874808902) [2005]
◦ United States Official Documents on the Armenian Genocide – By Ara Sarafian [1994]
◦ The Armenian Revolutionary Federation (Dashnagtzoutiun) Has Nothing To Do Anymore By Hovhannes Katchaznouni [1923]
◦ The Ottoman Peoples and the End of Empire (Historical Endings) by Justin McCarthy (ISBN13: 978-0340706572)[2001]
◦ Death and Exile: The Ethnic Cleansing of Ottoman Muslims, 1821-1922 by Justin McCarthy (ISBN13: 978-0874808902) [1996]
◦ The Talat Pasha ‘telegrams’: Historical fact or Armenian fiction? – by Sinasi Orel [1986]
◦ The Armenian Rebellion at Van by Justin McCarthy (ISBN13: 978-0874808704) [2006]
◦ The Armenian File: The Myth of Innocence Exposed by Kamuran Gurun (ISBN13: 978-9759703042) [2001]
◦ Armenia — Secrets of a ‘Christian’ Terrorist State by Sam Weems [2002]
◦ Who Are the Turks? by Justin McCarthy (ISBN13: 978-0944675717) [2003]
◦ History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey: Volume 2, Reform, Revolution, and Republic: The Rise of Modern Turkey 1808-1975 by Stanford J. Shaw, Ezel Kural Shaw [1977]
◦ Eastern Front 1914-1917 by Norman Stone [2004]
◦ World War One: A Short History by Norman Stone [2007]
◦ British Documents on Ottoman Armenians – Volume I (1856-1880) by Bilal N. Simsir [1989]
◦ The Story behind Ambassador Morgenthau’s Story by Heath W. Lowry [1990]
◦ Military History of the Ottoman Empire: Mehmet to Atatürk by Mesut Uyar, Edward J Erickson [2008]
gravenimage says
+1
Falsafa says
to unlettered bigot aka ‘Mortimer’ plus his/her trusted side kick gravenimage; you must have copied and pasted this list of sources not knowing that the sources you list are academic research papers, books authored by Lewy, Stone, Shaw McCarthy, Weems..state that that this so called ‘genocide’ is a myth. In these sources you will read (had you botherd to do so) that the Talat Pasha telegrams are forgeries, H.Morgenthau was a first class racist and liar whose letters, accounts were ghostwritten by his Armenian assistant with a mission to bring the US into the great war! and carve out the Ottoman Empire based on ethnic lines. amazing that you listed these sources and did my work for me! I would recommend that you start reading from your own sources above to educate yourself starting with Weems. Amusing really but thank you!
WPM says
America did not get into World War 1 over Armenian “crisis” or anything to do with Turkey or Islam. It had to do with Germany sinking and attacking American shipping , Germany financing planning terrorist attacks across the Mexican border {using native Mexicans}.America only got into WW1 in the last year of the war ,I do not recall any America troops sent to Turkey or near Turkey in WW1.After WW1 America had little or nothing to do with what kind of government that ran Turkey. Turkey choosing the losing side of the war must have suffered ,that what happens when you chose the losing side .None of this has to do with what the Turks did to the Armenians ,if they kill 900,000 or none America did not enter WW1 over this. The way Turkey was treated after WW1 by the allies has nothing to do with the Armenians treatment .The Ottoman “Empire” was failing over 100 years before WW1 ,in Turkey choosing the losing side seal its future on failure. When all the Armenians “disappeared” the Turks do not have a good answer ,when all the churches , other houses of worship were destroyed the Turks do not have a good answer .The allies never crave up Ottoman Empire according to ethic lines ,the allies where interest in oil, trade ,shipping, industry ,the Moslems were interested in ethic cleanse fighting among themselves for 1000 years making stable government ,economic growth ,civil law ,impossible. The tribes of Islam are always fighting to make their tribe be the one in charge be it Shite ,Sunni ,Kurd , ,or ISIS ,or the Saudi Royal family.
mortimer says
IBRAHIM … THE OTTOMAN MUSLIMS PIONEERED GENOCIDE THROUGH PHARMACEUTICALS:
Use of poison and drug overdoses
Ottoman physicians contributed to the planning and execution of the genocide. The physicians Behaeddin Shakir and Nazım Bey were leading figures in the leadership committee of the Committee of Union and Progress and both held leadership roles in the Special Organization. Other physicians used their medical expertise to facilitate the killings, including designing methods for poisoning victims and using Armenians as subjects for lethal human experimentation.[93] Dadrian argued that the systemic medical murder in the Armenian genocide was a precursor to Nazi human experimentation during the Holocaust.
Specific medical methods used to kill victims included:
Morphine overdose: During the Trabzon trial series of the Martial court, from the sittings between 26 March and 17 May 1919, the Trabzons Health Services Inspector Dr. Ziya Fuad wrote in a report that Dr. Saib caused the death of children with the injection of morphine. The information was allegedly provided by two physicians (Drs. Ragib and Vehib), both Dr. Saib’s colleagues at Trabzons Red Crescent hospital, where those atrocities were said to have been committed.[94]
Toxic gas: Dr. Ziya Fuad and Dr. Adnan, public health services director of Trabzon, submitted affidavits reporting cases in which two school buildings were used to organize children and send them to the mezzanine to kill them with toxic gas equipment.
Typhoid inoculation: The Ottoman surgeon, Dr. Haydar Cemal wrote “on the order of the Chief Sanitation Office of the Third Army in January 1916, when the spread of typhus was an acute problem, innocent Armenians slated for deportation at Erzincan were inoculated with the blood of typhoid fever patients without rendering that blood ‘inactive'”. Jeremy Hugh Baron writes: “Individual doctors were directly involved in the massacres, having poisoned infants, killed children and issued false certificates of death from natural causes. Nazim’s brother-in-law Dr. Tevfik Rushdu, Inspector-General of Health Services, organized the disposal of Armenian corpses with thousands of kilos of lime over six months; he became foreign secretary from 1925 to 1938”.
gravenimage says
Mortimer, excellent and informative posts from you on this thread. Thanks.
Falsafa says
mortimer and graven(nonsense) image if you bother check your sources on these stories you will find out that they are fake. again you can start educating yourselves on the ‘Armenian genocide’ myth by reading from the “neutral” sources / references you have cited above, which I am gladly pasting below for all those who wish to really understand what truly happened and to show Mr Spencer’s arguments, blogs amd books to be for what they really are/ nothing more that biased hearsay stories.
Recommended reading list for those who wish to get an unbiased, factual account of last days of the Ottoman Empire;
◦ The Armenian Massacres in Ottoman Turkey: A Disputed Genocide by Guenter Lewy (ISBN13: 978-0874808902) [2005]
◦ United States Official Documents on the Armenian Genocide – By Ara Sarafian [1994]
◦ The Armenian Revolutionary Federation (Dashnagtzoutiun) Has Nothing To Do Anymore By Hovhannes Katchaznouni [1923]
◦ The Ottoman Peoples and the End of Empire (Historical Endings) by Justin McCarthy (ISBN13: 978-0340706572)[2001]
◦ Death and Exile: The Ethnic Cleansing of Ottoman Muslims, 1821-1922 by Justin McCarthy (ISBN13: 978-0874808902) [1996]
◦ The Talat Pasha ‘telegrams’: Historical fact or Armenian fiction? – by Sinasi Orel [1986]
◦ The Armenian Rebellion at Van by Justin McCarthy (ISBN13: 978-0874808704) [2006]
◦ The Armenian File: The Myth of Innocence Exposed by Kamuran Gurun (ISBN13: 978-9759703042) [2001]
◦ Armenia — Secrets of a ‘Christian’ Terrorist State by Sam Weems [2002]
◦ Who Are the Turks? by Justin McCarthy (ISBN13: 978-0944675717) [2003]
◦ History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey: Volume 2, Reform, Revolution, and Republic: The Rise of Modern Turkey 1808-1975 by Stanford J. Shaw, Ezel Kural Shaw [1977]
◦ Eastern Front 1914-1917 by Norman Stone [2004]
◦ World War One: A Short History by Norman Stone [2007]
◦ British Documents on Ottoman Armenians – Volume I (1856-1880) by Bilal N. Simsir [1989]
◦ The Story behind Ambassador Morgenthau’s Story by Heath W. Lowry [1990]
◦ Military History of the Ottoman Empire: Mehmet to Atatürk by Mesut Uyar, Edward J Erickson [2008]
KJW says
Ibrahim, there are plenty of sources about the Ottoman’s atrocities, the tens of thousands of slaves, tortures, suppression, later photographs of Armenians, sources saying in the Levant the Ottomans treated them worse than even the Arabs had, which is bad. The Ottomans didn’t treat all Arabians well either. I forgot which sultan it was but he had 1,000 concubines. They were haughty, the Persians had to fight them…it’s all part of a big picture.
These Ottomans also built a mosque right next to the Parthenon in Greece, thus they too were cultural barbarians that Erdogan carries on with today regarding the Haifa Sophia and Turks vandalizing churches. Muslims love destroying churches and temples to this day-they are culturally and psychologically impaired. Muslims raised in a pathological culture where false pride and honor is begotten from treating others (and themselves) like crap. Islam girls stunted growth-always has. This can also be seen in your comments. Not once have I seen so far your admition of Islamic atrocities, current slavery, that Islam shackles personal development and lack of logic and critical thinking. It’s bizarre. An inferiority complex further exacerbated by jihad and spreading Islam by any means because the religion can’t stand up to intellectual scrutiny and honesty.
Btw, Erdogan has called the Armenians prisoners of war. Such mass killings don’t make for “prisoners.”
DHazard says
Muslims tend to go overboard with the murder, rape, stealing, and general mayhem. But of course they are just emulating the “perfect” man. I mean, give them a break. With all the suppressing of sex, humor, intimacy and joy that Islam dictates they really don’t have any options other than act out or apostatize. Not wanting a death threat hanging over their heads they turn to ruining other people’s lives instead, during a very extended, often permanent, adolescence.
mortimer says
ROBERT SPENCER refers to the ‘HAMIDIAN’ Armenian Massacres of 1894-1896 that were the first of a series of planned genocidal atrocities committed against the Armenian population of the Ottoman Empire. They were carried out during the reign of Abdul Hamid (Abdulhamit) II (1876-1909), the last sultan effectively to rule over the Turkish state. The massacres broke out in the summer of 1894 in the remote region of Sasun in southern Armenia, where the government relied on the excuse of Armenian resistance to Kurdish encroachment into the last recesses of the mountains to order the sacking of the alpine hamlets, with estimated casualties ranging from 80,000 to 300,000 murdered, resulting in 50,000 orphaned Armenian children.
gravenimage says
+1
somehistory says
These old and historical accounts prove that when isis, boko haram, al queda, al shabab, etc., commit such atrocities, they are committing what islam commands and are not “hijacking a great religion.”
isis has burned alive people. boko haram has ripped apart the bodies of pregnant women, killing both mother and child. Too numerous to recount are the barbaric murders and rapes of other victims in just the last two decades.
The wild beast of islam, from its inception, has been a demonic creation, evil from beginning all the way to now and will remain such until our God destroys it.
Flavius Claudius Iulianus says
“Times of London: Italian Monastery To House Right-Wing Populist Leader School” (Steve Bannon’s new project?)
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2018/06/08/times-of-london-italian-monastery-to-house-right-wing-populist-leader-school/
David says
In the dead and freezing cold of winter young girls were stripped and bound backwards onto the wheels of cannon caissons and left to freeze. Untold numbers of young girls were stripped and crucified. Pictures of the latter are found on the internet.
Relic says
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGytaGTK7j8
gaz says
Armenians, what Armenians ? ?
Postulant says
Knights Templar International
http://www.knightstemplarinternational.com
Terry Gain says
Wunderbar. Let’s have another Iftar dinner to celebrate peaceful Islam. And give strength and comfort to freedom’s eternal enemy.
Falsafa says
Mr Spencer – You can cry wolf to all things muslim and fill your books & blogs with ‘he said she said’ arguments and reference sources akin to tabloid journalism of the 19th century stoked by ‘western powern of the day’ waiting to enrich themselves with the spoils of the collapsing Ottoman Empire. That is your prerogative, Allow us then to share with you sources which contradict the narrative that you are presenting with facts, sources of our own. A sample shared below;
i) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qG70UWESfu4
ii) http://tallarmeniantale.com
iii)The Armenian Massacres in Ottoman Turkey: A Disputed Genocide (Utah Series in Turkish and Islamic Studis) by Guenter Lewy.
gravenimage says
The foul self-styled “Falsafa” wrote:
Mr Spencer – You can cry wolf to all things muslim and fill your books & blogs with ‘he said she said’ arguments and reference sources akin to tabloid journalism of the 19th century stoked by ‘western powern of the day’ waiting to enrich themselves with the spoils of the collapsing Ottoman Empire. That is your prerogative
………………………..
Daring to report on the hideous Armenian Genocide is enriching themselves with the spoils of the Ottoman Empire? How does telling the truth about savagery achieve any such thing? What grotesque calumny.
More:
Allow us then to share with you sources which contradict the narrative that you are presenting with facts, sources of our own. A sample shared below;
………………………..
I am *no* fan of Bernard Lewis–but note that he *confirmed* that Muslims Turks murdered one million Armenians–he just does not agree that this rises to the level of genocide. He is *not* saying that the Turks did not mass slaughter these people
Does “Falsafa” have a problem with his fellow Turkish Muslims having murdered all of these Infidels? I very much doubt it.
As for the second link–which I had seen before–it does not deny the genocide, either–it merely claims that the genocide was *justified*, because Armenians–supposedly–killed Muslims first. Note that this link does not cite a *single* contemporary Turkish source. The fact is that the claim that the oppressed Armenian minority was actually the aggressor is a recent one.
In any case, note that at the end of the Armenian Genocide, just a tiny remnant of Christians remained in Turkey–up to two million had slaughtered or driven out.
As for Guenter Lewy, he himself affirms that “In 1915, the Ottoman government, then run by the Young Turks, deported most of its Armenian citizens from their eastern Anatolian lands. According to reliable estimates, close to forty percent of the prewar population perished, many in brutal massacres.”
How does this show that the Armenian Genocide did not take place? Rather, it confirms it.
http://cdmbuntu.lib.utah.edu/cdm/ref/collection/upcat/id/1158
The fact is that the very sites that “Falsafa” links to are actually very damning.